--- Log opened Sun Apr 29 00:00:08 2012 --- Day changed Sun Apr 29 2012 00:00 < jrayhawk> http://jeffareid.net/misc/aplfns.jpg i dunno, it's pretty hard to beat this 00:00 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@81.61.208.218.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:00 < kanzure> clearly i should do all of my web apps in APL 00:00 < kanzure> http://aplwiki.com/MildServer 00:01 < jrayhawk> ahaha awesome 00:01 < kanzure> example: http://aplwiki.com/MildServer/Samples/Index 00:09 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:11 < kanzure> good night 00:26 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-163-157-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:29 -!- Adifex [~Adifex@utdpat242007.utdallas.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:57 -!- thyla [~userid@c-24-61-126-211.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:04 -!- Adifex [~Adifex@utdpat242007.utdallas.edu] has quit [Quit: Adifex] 01:06 -!- AdrianG [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has quit [] 01:17 -!- 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Leaving] 04:00 -!- Adifex [~Adifex@utdpat242007.utdallas.edu] has quit [Quit: Adifex] 04:33 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:38 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-18-64.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:44 -!- juul_ [~juul@208.87.217.74] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:41 -!- chillyvanilly_ [~chillyvan@207.178.197.130] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:44 -!- chillyvanilly [~chillyvan@207.178.197.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:05 < kanzure> beep boop 06:11 < ENKI-][> robby the robot for president 06:14 < kanzure> works for me 06:19 < kanzure> fenn: this is what github uses for wikis https://github.com/github/gollum 06:26 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:47 < kanzure> https://github.com/upverter/schematic-file-converter seems to support kicad, geda, eagle, eagle xml 07:03 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone, 07:14 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@81.61.208.218.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:16 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@adsl-69-151-152-63.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:16 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@adsl-69-151-152-63.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Changing host] 07:16 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:48 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:52 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:54 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:07 -!- streety [streety@li139-74.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:08 -!- streety [streety@li139-74.members.linode.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:09 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-54.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:09 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-54.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has quit [Changing host] 08:09 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 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kanzure> nmz787: yo 08:54 < nmz787> kanzure: chandni had an interview with isec partners friday 08:54 < nmz787> in sf 08:56 < kanzure> cool. how'd it go? 08:56 < nmz787> she said she got ~%80 of the questions right 09:00 < kanzure> nmz787: i've been doing some spring cleaning.. i moved some git repos over to github 09:00 < kanzure> http://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer wrote a readme 09:00 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/netmorph turned this into a git repository.. http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/netmorph/ for more info 09:04 < nmz787> cool, any news from fenn? I haven't gone through the logs for the past week or so 09:04 < nmz787> i know he had been doing some 3D design 09:05 < kanzure> http://fennetic.net/irc/xy_table_unfinished.png 09:05 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/laser_etcher 09:07 < audy> I used to have a robby the robot 09:08 < audy> oh never mind that was robie 09:16 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:28 < kanzure> screw the pastebins.. 09:28 < kanzure> On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Randal Koene wrote: 09:28 < kanzure> > I'm happy to see the code go somewhere, hence the GPL. 09:28 < kanzure> > 09:28 < kanzure> > There may be a few bugs, though we got rid of the ones that were relevant to 09:28 < kanzure> > generating realistic neurons of specific types in a plausible way. 09:28 < kanzure> > The bigger issue is that there is a whole list of features that I was 09:28 < kanzure> > working on when the project stopped and that I was never able to get back 09:28 < kanzure> > to, so a few things are only partly implemented, and some not at all. 09:28 < kanzure> > 09:28 < kanzure> > One of the most important is the ability to use the code to generate 09:28 < kanzure> > simulated histological slices. That means, to create a known network and 09:28 < kanzure> > then turn that into thin slices just as would come out of an ATLUM or 09:28 < kanzure> > similar procedure. 09:28 < kanzure> > The point of doing so is this: When using an ATLUM we wonder just what sort 09:28 < kanzure> > of noise/errors/etc are really problematic to recovering the structure and 09:28 < kanzure> > which are not. But with a real brain you never start with a known network, 09:28 < kanzure> > so how do you know if the reconstruction succeeded? 09:28 < kanzure> > With a simulated set of slices for a known network you can test all sorts of 09:28 < kanzure> > noise and error conditions. 09:28 < kanzure> simulated histology slides sound neat/useful 09:33 < kanzure> added it to https://github.com/kanzure/netmorph/issues/1 09:33 < nmz787> kanzure: so just in case, keep your eye open to 3 or 4 bedroom apartments/lofts/industrial space with a kitchen 09:34 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:37 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:43 -!- aristarchus [~aristarch@unaffiliated/aristarchus] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:49 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@50.15.211.25] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 09:51 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-71-164-139-35.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:54 -!- chandoo [~chandoo@ool-ad032250.dyn.optonline.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:57 < kanzure> hrmm 09:57 < kanzure> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/apr/29/singularity-university-technology-future-thinkers 09:58 < kanzure> oh brother "Jim Gianopulos, the chairman of Fox Filmed Entertainment, went on a Singularity University course, and has since become evangelical about it" 09:58 < kanzure> haha 09:58 < JayDugger> Gee... 09:58 < JayDugger> Well, perhaps we'll get some decent movies out of it. 09:59 < JayDugger> Who will get cast in the various roles? 09:59 < JayDugger> Ewan MacGregor as Ralph Merkle? 09:59 < kanzure> ray kurzweil will play ray kurzweil 10:00 < nmz787> hah hah 10:00 < JayDugger> Justin Timberlake as Robert Freitas? 10:00 < nmz787> fox is in on SU now 10:00 < nmz787> its gonna get a TV spot like American Idol.... American Entrepreneur 10:00 < JayDugger> I dunno, Kurzweil seems pretty dead pan on video. 10:00 < JayDugger> Ben Stein maybe? That gets the irony bonus. 10:00 < kanzure> this is all awful 10:01 < kanzure> let's see what they actually fund through SU 10:01 < JayDugger> Yeah. I'll eat hot coals in hell for this part of the chat. 10:01 < JayDugger> Since God will be pulling the wings off an angel for each time I started Bit Torrent, I suppose I am no worse off than before. 10:02 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-163-157-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:02 < kanzure> wtf thomas edison gave himself and his assistants "idea quotas" 10:02 < JayDugger> Sir Ian MacKellen will play Ted Nelson, or Doug Engelbart... 10:03 < JayDugger> or Frederick Taylor in the time travel movie. 10:03 < nmz787> lol 10:03 < nmz787> more ideas! 10:04 < kanzure> nmz787: it was a limiting quota 10:04 < JayDugger> nah...it's just a fun parody. If you want a better treatment, go read Niven & Pournelle: Inferno, and the recent sequel, whose title escapes me. 10:05 < nmz787> kanzure: hmm, don't want the ideas to be too watered down? 10:05 < JayDugger> I should remember it better, given that Oppenheimer is in the same part of hell as the suicide bombers. 10:06 < kanzure> nmz787: dunno 10:06 < JayDugger> It blurs together with Zebrowski's short story about aliens who can't tell Carl Sagan from Moe howard. 10:07 < JayDugger> But regardless, it was a fun read, and the parody made it better. 10:07 -!- AdrianG [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:07 < JayDugger> Good night, everyone. I need some sleep. 10:14 < JayDugger> George Clooney for Bram Cohen. 10:19 < strangewarp> We must get Jonah Hill to play Eliezer Yudkowsky. 10:19 < strangewarp> MAKE IT SO 10:21 < strangewarp> Also, Christopher Walken is the obvious actor to play Kurzweil 10:25 < roksprok> https://p.twimg.com/AeuClYxCMAIxMdV.jpg:large 10:25 < roksprok> ^^^ibm job posting from 1959 10:25 < roksprok> strikingly similar to biotech job postings today 10:26 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@50.15.211.25] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:26 < roksprok> ie...required degree, they wanted someone to 'write differential equations' 10:26 < roksprok> just as you see now with companies asking for a masters degree to do random lab tests 10:28 < roksprok> gives me hope that synthetic biology/diybio/etc will perfuse through society 10:29 < AdrianG> 1960 lol 10:29 < AdrianG> roksprok: as long as biotech equipment prices keep dropping 10:30 < AdrianG> and thats far from certain 10:30 < AdrianG> also, computer viruses arent that scary. 10:30 < AdrianG> now imagine script-kiddies with ebola or something 10:30 < roksprok> well if you told those guys that sometime in the future everyeone would have several computers, they'd be asking 'what would they use them for?' 10:31 < roksprok> because mice and gui's and os's didn't exist 10:31 < AdrianG> how do you mitigate script-kiddies with ebolas 10:31 < roksprok> have other script-kiddies with ebola vaccines? 10:31 < AdrianG> its far easier to write potent infectious agents, than to understand immunology and how to cure/vaccinate/prevent it 10:32 < roksprok> i disagree, its the same problem 10:32 < AdrianG> it is the same problem, but the problem is asymmetricall 10:32 < roksprok> one organism's infectious agent is another organism's immune system 10:33 < roksprok> ok actually that sounded dumb 10:33 < roksprok> i take that back 10:33 < roksprok> that was dumb my bad 10:33 < roksprok> but ebola exists...as do other awful things 10:33 < AdrianG> how do you protect against quickly mutating viruses 10:33 < AdrianG> like common cold/flu 10:33 < roksprok> we do that....right now 10:33 < AdrianG> yes, a seasonal vaccine 10:33 < roksprok> have an immune system? antivirals? 10:34 < AdrianG> script-kiddies wont be seasonal. 10:34 < AdrianG> antivirals dont work for it. 10:34 < roksprok> a hypothetical future where script-kiddies write viruses is a hypothetical future where we have synthetic immune systems 10:34 < AdrianG> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosafety_level#Biosafety_level.C2.A04 10:35 < AdrianG> luckily script-kiddies will kill themselves before anyone else 10:35 < AdrianG> roksprok: vaccine are much more difficult to write because you have to take into account side-effects, etc 10:35 < AdrianG> with destructive agents you dont have to worry about such optimizations. 10:36 < kanzure> hi roksprok 10:37 < kanzure> AdrianG: yes it's true that awful things exist and it's also true that you are not currently immune to those awful things 10:37 < roksprok> hi kanzure....do you happen to know the guys from backyard brains? 10:37 < kanzure> yes 10:37 < kanzure> AdrianG: you are not invincible.. yet 10:38 < AdrianG> kanzure: if diybio really takes off, it'll be worse than nuclear proliferation 10:38 < kanzure> biology has taken off for the past 4 billion years 10:38 < kanzure> you're late to the party 10:38 < AdrianG> we've evolved along with everything else in 4 billion years. 10:38 < kanzure> btw there are ways to prevent contact with viruses 10:39 < kanzure> air gaps, filtration, immune response, vaccines, etc. 10:39 < kanzure> obv. the second two aren't "preventing contact" but you get the idea 10:40 < AdrianG> some can infect via skin contact 10:40 < kanzure> yep.. i suggest not putting your skin in contact with pathogens 10:40 < AdrianG> you really think synthetic viruses are nothing different to deal with vs viruses we've been living with for a few billion years? 10:40 < kanzure> i think everyone should judge on their own how much exposure they are willing to have 10:41 < kanzure> some people prefer to wear masks everywhere they go- look at people in shenzhen or beijing 10:41 < AdrianG> its a grey-goo scenario. 10:41 < kanzure> no it's not 10:42 < kanzure> AdrianG: there are many diseases that you can contract even /now/ 10:42 < AdrianG> virus is a self-replication nanotech. only nanotech that's actually working. 10:43 < kanzure> grey goo is when the earth is transformed into goo 10:43 < kanzure> every atom repurposed 10:43 < kanzure> viruses aren't going to do that. bacteria isn't going to do that either. 10:43 < AdrianG> i dont think thats going to matter if you are dead 10:44 < AdrianG> it's an ecophage, but its ecology is multicellular organisms. 10:44 < kanzure> are you saying you're too lazy to take precautions in your life? 10:44 < kanzure> i don't understand- surely you have your vaccinations, and surely you don't breath exhaust from your car? 10:45 < AdrianG> producing weaponized pathogens is expensive now. 10:45 < AdrianG> you really think anthrax is about as bad as breathing in exhaust fumes? 10:45 < kanzure> it doesn't matter if a human makes the pathogen or not 10:46 < kanzure> you still have to protect yourself in *either* case 10:46 < AdrianG> ofc its does matter 10:46 < kanzure> nope. not at all. 10:47 < kanzure> do you think you should let that pathogen have contact with you b/c it's human-made or something? 10:48 < AdrianG> what? 10:49 < kanzure> nature can make awful viruses that will kill you- and so can humans- it doesn't really matter who makes it, you still should protect yourself 10:50 < AdrianG> nature does not synthesize viruses de novo. 10:50 < AdrianG> they evolve. along with every other organism present on earth. 10:50 < kanzure> i guess one of your self-preservation strategies might be "discourging people from learning about diybiology because someone might do a bad thing", but that's not a reasonable strategy because it doesn't make "evil doers" disappear from the picture 10:51 < kanzure> (because that would be like saying "if i close my eyes hard enough, or regulate hard enough, the structure of this problem (that i can get sick) will go away") 10:51 < kanzure> *enough 10:51 < kanzure> ok, so you're saying there's some level of technology that can be incorporated into a synthetic virus, that current viruses don't have 10:51 < kanzure> that's probably true, but it's not grey goo, and you still shouldn't have contact with it 10:53 < AdrianG> yes, everyone will wear positive-pressure suits 24/7. 10:53 < kanzure> i doubt it- i think it would be more like space habitats 10:54 < ENKI-][> space habs are closed systems. one evildoer kills the whole hab, and maybe other habs don't hear about it before it spreads 10:54 < kanzure> ENKI-][: ok sure, you still need to detect what went wrong in a habitat 10:54 < ENKI-][> thinking of a situation like stross's Glasshouse 10:54 < kanzure> ENKI-][: however, i think the most important thing is the log of environmental contact 10:54 < kanzure> or syncs i mean. whatever. 10:55 < kanzure> obviously those can be faked so there would be some network of trust, blah blah blah 10:55 < kanzure> *web of trust 10:55 < kanzure> anyway, people inside different environments (like their homes) don't need to wear suits... they can be naked for all i care 10:55 < ENKI-][> that's a problem with any system involving multiple actors and rewards. there's a benefit to parasitism that is nonzero at best. 10:56 < kanzure> i also don't think it's necessary to wear pressure suits going outside on earth right now- it seems 100% hospitable to human life at the moment :) 10:56 < ENKI-][> well, parasitism and social engineering 10:56 < AdrianG> well, once diybio level 4 labs are available to everyone 10:56 < AdrianG> it might be the time to start wearing one 10:57 < kanzure> but i can imagine scenarios where the earth's atmosphere becomes unbreathable- like in nuclear winter contexts, or the atmosphere is poisoned, or there is a horrible airborne plague that i can't filter out 10:57 < AdrianG> all we'll need will be one unabomber 10:57 < kanzure> AdrianG: yeah again, it's a personal decision that you have to make for yourself 10:57 < kanzure> most people don't think about it because, so far we have never had to do that 10:57 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@cpe-67-242-177-23.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:57 < kanzure> but every time we step onto the ocean floor we're in a suit- people don't question *that* 10:57 < AdrianG> we had plagues. 10:57 < AdrianG> in fact, nobody's even immune to smallpox. 10:58 < kanzure> yeah, right now we're horribly susceptible to plagues 10:58 < kanzure> are you a hypochondriac? 10:58 < AdrianG> no, why? 10:58 < kanzure> *shrug* just wondering 10:58 < AdrianG> i think its just a very plausible possibility 10:58 < AdrianG> think about ti. 10:59 < kanzure> yeah i've already agreed with you.. but your original idea was "STOP DIYBIO" which isn't a good solution 10:59 < AdrianG> you can be damn sure diybio is going to be controlled 10:59 < AdrianG> nah, i ddint say that 10:59 < kanzure> my idea is "HERE ARE SOME TOOLS THAT WILL SAVE YOUR LIFE" 10:59 < AdrianG> u cant stop it 10:59 < kanzure> you just said it though 10:59 < kanzure> "is going to be controlled" 10:59 < kanzure> i think you're being inconsistent 10:59 < AdrianG> sure, meth is controlled 10:59 < AdrianG> has that changed anything 10:59 < kanzure> no it isn't 10:59 < kanzure> tons of meth labs are unregulated 11:00 < AdrianG> is methamphetamine a controlled substance: y/n 11:00 < kanzure> "controlled substance" refers to a legal concept, not actual control of the situation 11:00 < AdrianG> how else are they going to be controlled 11:00 < AdrianG> defacto, without supporting laws? 11:00 < kanzure> meth labs *aren't*.. that's why there's so many of them 11:01 < AdrianG> we'll probably have a similar situation with diybio 11:01 < kanzure> iirc i saw a number once saying at least 10,000 meth labs in texas 11:01 < kanzure> AdrianG: i don't think supporting additional regulation of diybio would help people in the long run 11:02 < AdrianG> i dont think so either 11:02 < AdrianG> but it'll happen, i am sure. 11:02 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@cpe-67-242-177-23.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:02 < kanzure> none of the diybio experts agree either 11:02 < AdrianG> or do you think everyone will be ok with everyone having a bit of smallpox at home? 11:02 < kanzure> nobody is suggesting that you keep smallpox at home 11:02 < AdrianG> im just saying 11:02 < AdrianG> u just have to scare some soccer moms, and done 11:02 < kanzure> done what ? 11:03 < AdrianG> diybio outlawed/restricted/etc 11:03 < kanzure> those are all just penalties 11:03 < AdrianG> in most countries, you cant even own handguns easily 11:03 < kanzure> you can make one, and not tell anyone about it 11:03 < AdrianG> and u think diybio tech will be legal? 11:03 < kanzure> soccer moms are not diybio experts 11:03 < kanzure> you shouldn't listen to them 11:04 < AdrianG> but they vote 11:04 < AdrianG> or maybe scare seniors 11:04 < AdrianG> whoever votes. 11:04 < kanzure> whether or not your scare tactics work, that doesn't change anything that i've said 11:04 < AdrianG> http://www.crscientific.com/texas-glassware.html 11:04 < kanzure> for instance, natural plagues can't be "regulated against" by soccer moms 11:04 < kanzure> in the end, the soccer moms will need to take medication too 11:04 < kanzure> it's just how our biology works 11:05 < AdrianG> texas has already permits for glassware lol 11:05 < kanzure> yes i'm aware. 11:05 < AdrianG> hilarious 11:06 < nmz787> kanzure: i wonder how that glassware law would apply/not to microfluidics? 11:06 < AdrianG> it wouldnt 11:07 < AdrianG> those are mainly diagnostic devices, at least currently? 11:07 < AdrianG> FDA will restrict those for you, dont worry. 11:08 < kanzure> nmz787: haven't checked 11:09 < AdrianG> microfuidics are not glassware. 11:09 < ThomasEgi> you guys arent seriously trying to comply with regulations? 11:10 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: i don't see it as important yet- we're in such an early stage that we haven't even ordered parts yet 11:10 < kanzure> nmz787: which, by the way, we need to do.. 11:11 < nmz787> right 11:11 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: compliance is always in my mind... i don't want my ass getting locked up or sued to homelessness 11:12 < nmz787> but at the same time, as kanzure mentioned, i don't think we're at any stage where we have to really think much about compliance 11:12 < ThomasEgi> i see.well. from my own experience, trying to comply with regulations will make hit a roadblock and ruin your day. but then. i am not messing with biological stuff, mostly 11:13 < kanzure> right now we are in complete compliance :) since we're not doing anything >_< 11:13 -!- Cat4D [182bd7e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.43.215.226] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:13 < ThomasEgi> just my 2 ¢ . and now it is time for an intermission, called pancakes! 11:14 < AdrianG> that texas glasswaer 11:14 < AdrianG> law 11:14 < AdrianG> has anyone been arrested yet under that law 11:14 < nmz787> most likely 11:14 < nmz787> but its really meant to catch meth cookers, not prospective business startups 11:16 < kanzure> in the past four years of diybio i haven't been informed of any diybio-related arrests really 11:17 < nmz787> ttyl 11:17 -!- Cat4D [182bd7e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.43.215.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:17 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@cpe-67-242-177-23.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:18 < AdrianG> lawmakers dont care about diybio yet 11:19 < kanzure> sure they do 11:19 < kanzure> look at the report from pcsbi in 2011 11:19 < kanzure> (the president's) 11:24 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@cpe-67-242-177-23.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:26 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@cpe-67-242-177-23.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 11:31 -!- Cat4D [182bd7e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.43.215.226] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:33 < AdrianG> dont care enough to pass laws about it 11:35 < ENKI-][> laws are another thing that don't take into account cheaters 11:35 < ENKI-][> the law only really affects people with a kneejerk submission response to authority, except when there is clear and present enforcement 11:36 < ENKI-][> in other words, outside of a police state, legality only truly matters to the kind of people who don't really need laws to keep them in line (and will follow any suggestion about good/moral behavior) 11:50 -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-81-13-133.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:59 -!- Cat4D [182bd7e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.43.215.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:13 -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-81-13-133.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:55 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-18-64.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:06 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-163-157-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:49 -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-67-110-183.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:49 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-91-221-175.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:49 -!- _Sketch_ [~Sketch@71-91-221-175.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:53 -!- SDr [Silver@unaffiliated/sdr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:05 < kanzure> hrmm 14:05 < kanzure> for some reason the response to my README file for nanoengineer has been overwhelmingly positive 14:06 < kanzure> http://www.facebook.com/kanzure/posts/448335391848427 14:06 < kanzure> "Bryan!!!!! YOU HERO" it's a readme :| 14:07 < kanzure> i guess nobody was interested when i posted it last year? 14:09 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@50.15.211.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:11 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@50.15.211.25] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:17 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-18-64.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:18 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@81.61.208.218.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:27 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-163-157-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:41 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:48 -!- brownies [u1042@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ddqbsfdczotwzlpy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:53 -!- drazak_ [~ahdfadkfa@drazak.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:53 -!- drazak_ [~ahdfadkfa@drazak.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:58 -!- nathaniel [~nathaniel@c-24-22-85-209.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:58 -!- nathaniel [~nathaniel@c-24-22-85-209.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:58 -!- nathaniel [~nathaniel@reddit/operator/nathaniel] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:01 -!- Cat4D [182bd7e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.43.215.226] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:01 < Cat4D> "affect" is a belief system, ENKI-][ 15:23 < kanzure> "All segments of the video show portions of a molecular dynamics simulation of a small bearing rotating at 5 GHz." 15:23 < kanzure> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4537373229618869344 15:29 -!- Cat4D [182bd7e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.43.215.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:31 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-152-18.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:38 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:38 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:38 -!- Cat4D [182bd7e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.43.215.226] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:39 < kanzure> hrmm there was a nanotech xprize being setup in 2006 15:39 < kanzure> http://web.archive.org/web/20060902073405/http://www.xprizefoundation.com/prizes/nanotechx.asp 15:45 -!- kristianpaul [~kristianp@unaffiliated/kristianpaul] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:46 -!- kristianpaul [~kristianp@unaffiliated/kristianpaul] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:48 < kanzure> someone's diy tdcs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ieujpNM-D8 15:48 < kanzure> oh it's ianmathwiz7.. well ok 15:48 < kanzure> all of the "related" videos are really pathetic 15:48 < eudoxia> oh its' that guy 15:49 < eudoxia> oh god tom horn 15:49 < kanzure> "NotForSaleNWO" "ResistNWO".. come on, this is the best we can do? shit 15:49 < kanzure> eudoxia: hm? i don't know who that is 15:49 < eudoxia> the "transhumanism == nwo" guy 15:49 < eudoxia> the guy who thinks the military is creating furries to be snipers or some shit 15:54 < kanzure> eudoxia: are you a good wordsmith? 15:54 < eudoxia> not really 15:55 < eudoxia> why? 15:55 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:55 < yashgaroth> isn't that the plot of tank girl 15:55 < kanzure> eudoxia: i am writing a quick article about http://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer#readme for foresight institute's blog 15:56 < eudoxia> oh yeah the readme you mentioned 15:56 < kanzure> yes well.. still figuring out what to write 15:56 < kanzure> http://piratepad.net/tGR4Aaqh6o 15:57 < kanzure> most of this sounds like a marketing brochure 15:57 < eudoxia> maybe it should 15:57 < kanzure> long/complicated sentences aren't ideal for a blog 15:58 < kanzure> nanoengineer was featured on the http://foresight.org/nanodot blog a few times in the past but it was never actually /explained/ 15:58 < eudoxia> does anybody actually read the blog anymore 15:59 < kanzure> probably not 15:59 < eudoxia> yeah 15:59 < kanzure> but christine peterson is right.. it should be announced by foresight institute 16:00 < kanzure> since all the nanotech molecular machine bigwigs are still somewhat associated with foresight institute or institute for molecular manufacturing 16:00 < kanzure> also: i didn't notice beore but tom moore's blog is still going strong since 2007 http://machine-phase.blogspot.com/ he seems to be posting nanoengineer-related simulation results 16:00 < kanzure> oh hm. no he's possibly using blender. 16:01 < eudoxia> he was going strong but has sort of stopped recently 16:01 < eudoxia> except for that adamantane simulation 16:01 < eudoxia> and yeah he wrote his own blender renderer 16:01 < kanzure> lame. 16:02 < eudoxia> I added something to the pad 16:03 < kanzure> what was "crystal clear" 16:03 < eudoxia> wait actually it was called somethin gelse 16:03 < eudoxia> http://goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au/~gl/research/nano/crystal.html 16:03 < eudoxia> the only executable is for the SGI lololollolol 16:05 < kanzure> oh that's neat 16:05 < kanzure> didn't know about that one 16:05 < kanzure> neat ... some pdb files of bearings, blocks and tubes http://goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au/~gl/research/nano/structures/ 16:06 < eudoxia> that's pretty useful 16:06 < eudoxia> I always thought the parts library needed more items 16:06 < eudoxia> I was kinda saddened when Freitas said he expected it to grow to "many thousands" in a few years ;_; 16:08 < kanzure> honestly i want to see freitas, merckle and drexler commiting to the git repo- what the heck are they spending all their time on if not simulations? 16:08 < eudoxia> yeah 16:08 < eudoxia> also those two books merkle and freitas have been writing 16:13 < kanzure> "NanoEngineer is the first molecular engineering CAD program." i don't think it particularly matters that it's the first or not 16:13 < eudoxia> originally I intended to say it was the first that combined CAD with molecular design 16:13 < kanzure> "NanoEngineer is the first free, open-source, Linux-compatible Mac-compatible Windows-compatible molecular engineering and structural DNA nanotechnology CAD program" 16:14 < kanzure> i'm not really sure what the news is supposed to be 16:16 < eudoxia> it's kind of late to announce anything 16:16 < eudoxia> unless you're announcing a new version 16:16 < eudoxia> like "the all new NanoEngineer-1, NanoEngineer-2" 16:18 < kanzure> the whole -1 naming thing is really silly 16:18 < eudoxia> i agree 16:19 < kanzure> i am also debating whether or not it should be capitalized with Engineer 16:19 < kanzure> it should be referred to by its versions: nanoengineer v1.0.0 and nanoengineer v1.0.1 16:19 < eudoxia> you mean use 'NanoEngineer' insted of the original 'NanoENGINEER' 16:19 < kanzure> haha 16:19 < kanzure> actually i saw it written as nanoENGINEER (R) somewhere 16:20 < eudoxia> I like the original CamelCase 16:20 < eudoxia> brb food 16:51 < lichen> http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/olson20120426 16:52 < lichen> this article is kind of groan-worthy 16:53 < lichen> "here's a neat advance that lowers the cost of drug synthesis for laboratories... WHICH MEANS ITLL BE USED TO MAKE METH" 16:55 < kanzure> in general, ieet is like that :p 16:55 < lichen> yeah 16:58 < gnusha> nanoengineer.git: 31ab000 ignore automake-generated files 16:58 < jrayhawk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qNEeqCACwo 17:00 < kanzure> the video's description is fluff 17:00 < kanzure> what is it actually about 17:00 < jrayhawk> jack kruse performs hilarious medical experiments on self and others 17:02 < kanzure> jrayhawk: do you feel like helping to get nanoengineer running again? 17:02 < kanzure> http://www.nanoengineer-1.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Setting_up_an_NE1_Development_Environment_on_Linux 17:02 < eudoxia> does it work with the new python now? 17:03 < kanzure> eudoxia: nope 17:03 < jrayhawk> i have enough trouble keeping my own projects working on unstable languages 17:03 < kanzure> jrayhawk: most of the problems are related to reliably tracking down old versions of packages, or writing scripts that will probably work 17:04 < kanzure> "sudo apt-get install python-numarray=1.5.2-2.2ubuntu1" 17:04 < kanzure> derp .. http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/p/python-numarray/python-numarray_1.5.2-4/changelog 17:04 < kanzure> not found 17:05 < jrayhawk> archive.debian.org archive.ubuntu.com 17:05 < kanzure> http://archive.debian.net/en/etch/i386/python-numarray/download 17:06 < kanzure> what's the right way to do this from a single apt-get command? or would i have to tell users to modify their apt sources, add one of these archives, and do -t whatever 17:08 < jrayhawk> With something that screwy, a dedicated userspace run as a chroot is probably the best bet. 17:09 < kanzure> jrayhawk: would that be better than me serving the files publicly in some random folder? 17:10 < jrayhawk> I would make instructions for how to build something approximating the userspace, then distribute the userspace. 17:12 < kanzure> i see. yeah, i think some of this depends on ancient versions of libc. 17:13 < jrayhawk> and, of course, treat that userspace as a temporary measure until you get things working with modern infrastructure 17:14 < kanzure> yes i've always imagined it would be something like "start with some VM image" and "incrementally upgrade once library at a time" 17:14 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@cpe-67-242-177-23.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:14 < kanzure> libdb4.5_4.5.20-1_i386.deb <-- can't find this 17:16 < jrayhawk> http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aarchive.ubuntu.com+%22libdb4.5%22 17:17 < kanzure> it's a cygwin library? o.o 17:17 < kanzure> http://ie.archive.ubuntu.com/cygwin/release-legacy/db/db4.5/libdb4.5/libdb4.5-4.5.20-1.tar.bz2 17:17 < jrayhawk> It's a c library. 17:17 < jrayhawk> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/d/db4.5/ 17:20 < kanzure> jrayhawk: is running an ancient libc version under chroot a reasonable thing? 17:21 < jrayhawk> Yeah. I've run libc5 on modern kernels, even. 17:21 < kanzure> so what would distributing a chroot environment look like? i've never done that 17:21 < kanzure> i understand distributing a giant vm image, but that's the sucker's way out :) 17:22 -!- Cat4D_ [182bd7e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.43.215.226] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:22 < jrayhawk> tar -Jcf nanoengineer-chroot.tar.xz nanoengineer-chroot/ 17:23 < jrayhawk> The chroot itself you can mostly construct with debootstrap or cdebootstrap, presumably. 17:23 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24 < kanzure> jrayhawk: making a chroot that assumes debian will be nice for those who don't want to run a vm and already use debian 17:24 < kanzure> but then other users will want to get the original version running on their OS 17:24 < kanzure> so then i'll be stuck debugging what other awful versions people have for their separate distributions 17:24 < kanzure> distributing a single vm image would probably be the smarter thing to do? 17:24 < jrayhawk> I don't see what the host distribution has to do with anything? 17:25 -!- Cat4D [182bd7e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.43.215.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:25 < kanzure> jrayhawk: deboostrap can install debian things on a non-debian system? 17:25 < jrayhawk> No, tar can. 17:26 < jrayhawk> Well, and yes debootstrap can 17:26 < jrayhawk> debootstrap doesn't rely on anything other than libc 17:26 < jrayhawk> but there's no real point; it's not like a distribution from 2007 is going to get security updates 17:28 < kanzure> jrayhawk: alright 17:28 < kanzure> i like the sounds of this 17:28 < kanzure> *sound 17:30 < kanzure> jrayhawk: so i cdeboostrap with a particular mirror/archive from waybackwhen, then chroot into a bash sesson using that as the root, dselect some things, then tar it up into your .tar.xz? 17:31 < jrayhawk> Something like that. Looks like there's unpackaged software to install in that chroot as well, if those directions are any indication. 17:32 < jrayhawk> And you may as well install nanoengineer-1 into that userspace as well. 17:32 < jrayhawk> as well as well as well 17:32 < kanzure> do you mind if i do this on gnusha? 17:32 < jrayhawk> Sounds fine. 17:32 < kanzure> or would it be better to do this on my fairlystable vserver 17:32 < kanzure> ok 17:39 < kanzure> jrayhawk: can you confirm- it looks like i want etch? g++ 4.1.2, qt 4.3.5, python2.5, 17:40 < jrayhawk> I didn't see db4.5 in any debian release, so I'm guessing ubuntu will work out better. 17:40 < kanzure> is the only difference that i should use cdebootstrap with an ubuntu mirror? 17:40 < jrayhawk> Well, you'll want to choose the right suite. 17:40 -!- Cat4D_ [182bd7e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.43.215.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:40 < kanzure> eh? it looks like they want ubuntu 7.04 17:41 < jrayhawk> Sounds reasonable. 17:41 < kanzure> heh http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/7.04/ "These images are vulnerable to USN-612-1, a very serious flaw in the cryptographic library used to generate encryption keys. It is essential that you apply all security updates after installation before making any use of your system." 17:41 -!- delinquentme_ [~asdfasdf@c-67-163-157-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:41 -!- delinquentme_ [~asdfasdf@c-67-163-157-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42 < kanzure> hmm i see some ISOs 17:42 < kanzure> god did i really just capitalize the extension? i regretted that immediately 17:43 < jrayhawk> there's probably an ISO standard for capitalizing ISO 17:44 < kanzure> am i just sucking at search? where is the mirror url 17:44 < jrayhawk> archive.ubuntu.org/ubuntu/ 17:44 < jrayhawk> err, .com 17:44 < kanzure> i don't see it: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/ 17:46 < jrayhawk> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ huh 17:46 < jrayhawk> i wonder why those are separate 17:47 < kanzure> do you prefer debootstrap or cdebootstrap? 17:48 < jrayhawk> I find debootstrap is better maintained. 17:49 < jrayhawk> For instance, debootstrap has direct support for feisty. 17:49 < kanzure> huh i can't find a cdeboostrap homepage.. just some mailing list stuff. sooo yeah, deboostrap it is. 17:49 < kanzure> *debootstrap 17:49 < kanzure> *cdebootstrap 17:51 < kanzure> jrayhawk: which package for chroot do you prefer? chrootuid, dchroot, or schroot? 17:52 < jrayhawk> debootstrap takes care of the chroot setup for you 17:52 < jrayhawk> at which point you can use of the chroot in gnu coreutils 17:55 -!- Cat4D [182bd7e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.43.215.226] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:58 < kanzure> jrayhawk: E: Cannot install into target '/home/bryan/nanoengineer-chroot' mounted with noexec or nodev 17:58 < kanzure> hrm 17:58 < jrayhawk> oh, fascinating 17:58 < kanzure> do i have to edit /etc/fstab? 17:59 < jrayhawk> I doubt it. It's probably a vserver restriction. 18:01 < kanzure> jrayhawk: ideas? 18:02 < jrayhawk> ah, yeah, it wants to install device nodes. right. I'll get that first step done outside... 18:05 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-152-18.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:08 < kanzure> jrayhawk: export CHROOT=~/nanoengineer-chroot; mkdir -p $CHROOT; sudo debootstrap --arch i386 feisty $CHROOT http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/; 18:08 < kanzure> oh sorry i forgot to report the other part of the original error message; 18:08 < kanzure> mknod: `/root/nanoengineer-chroot/test-dev-null': Operation not permitted 18:08 < kanzure> er, this was before i realized i was using ~ in sudo or something 18:15 < kanzure> jrayhawk: ping? 18:16 < jrayhawk> Okay, sudo chroot /root/nanoengineer-chroot 18:16 < kanzure> jrayhawk: is this with feisty installed already? 18:16 < jrayhawk> Yeah. 18:16 < kanzure> thank you! 18:17 < jrayhawk> Basically the debootstrap command you ran, only outside of the vserver restrictions (and minus the dists/feisty/ part of the URL) 18:18 < kanzure> jrayhawk: erm, now what? 18:18 < kanzure> i guess i install things 18:18 < jrayhawk> Yeah. 18:18 < kanzure> is modern git an okay idea? :| 18:19 < jrayhawk> Eh, you don't really need modern git features 18:19 < kanzure> where should i put things in this chroot? /root? 18:19 < jrayhawk> Wherever you like! 18:20 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:20 < jrayhawk> /usr/src for source and /usr/local for installation is traditional 18:20 < kanzure> root@gnusha:/# adduser nanoengineeruser 18:20 < kanzure> perl: warning: Setting locale failed. 18:20 < kanzure> perl: warning: Please check that your locale settings: 18:20 < kanzure> LANGUAGE = (unset), LC_ALL = (unset), LANG = "en_US.UTF-8" 18:20 < jrayhawk> you may wish to install locales, which are not a base dependency 18:21 < jrayhawk> and/or dpkg-reconfigure locales 18:21 < kanzure> nanoengineer by default uses this /home/user/Nanoengineer thing so i should probably use a user 18:21 < jrayhawk> that's dumb but i suppose this is all dumb 18:22 < kanzure> wait how is this /all/ dumb? 18:22 < kanzure> bit rot is natural 18:23 < jrayhawk> With unstable languages, maybe. 18:26 < nmz787> hi 18:26 < kanzure> jrayhawk: locale: Cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or directory 18:27 < kanzure> this is after: sudo apt-get install locales 18:27 < jrayhawk> you may want to dpkg-reconfigure debconf and set it to a saner priority 18:28 < jrayhawk> in ubuntu-land, everyone is assumed to be terrified of configuration dialogues 18:29 < kanzure> what is a saner priority? it is set to "high" 18:30 < kanzure> oh well. medium it is. 18:30 < jrayhawk> I don't remember what priority you get to configure locales at, but low should catch everything 18:30 < jrayhawk> and be educational besides! 18:30 < jrayhawk> anyway, then you can probably dpkg-reconfigure locales to greater effect 18:30 < kanzure> erm.. now what? 18:30 < kanzure> the locales package seems to be installed anyway 18:30 < kanzure> reconfigure locales? 18:31 < jrayhawk> don't argue with me young man! 18:31 < jrayhawk> i swear to god i will turn this chatroom around and go right back home! 18:31 < kanzure> no sir i'll be good i'll stop yelling at the homeless people i promise 18:32 < kanzure> welp, setting "low" didn't help with "dpkg-reconfigure locales" 18:33 -!- chandoo [~chandoo@ool-ad032250.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:33 < jrayhawk> whaaat the hell 18:33 < kanzure> holy hell pastie.org is down 18:33 < kanzure> http://pastebin.com/TSfV0iwb 18:33 < kanzure> guh i hate that 18:33 < kanzure> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=TSfV0iwb 18:34 < kanzure> to be fair.. on my laptop i seem to have $LANGUAGE and $LC_ALL unset too 18:37 < kanzure> jrayhawk: export LANG=C <-- seems to help clean up the issues 18:44 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:47 < nmz787> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morpholino 18:47 < nmz787> kinda cool, sortof 18:48 < jrayhawk> yeah, it appears the debconf interface to locales is simply removed in that release 18:49 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-19-178.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:50 < jrayhawk> you can 'echo en_US.UTF-8 UTF-8 > /etc/locale.gen; locale-gen' if you want to show off your cultural imperialist might 18:50 < kanzure> jrayhawk: it's asking for g++=4.1.2-0ubuntu4 but all i see is g++=4.1.2-1ubuntu1 18:51 < kanzure> erm, rather, i'm asking for 18:51 < kanzure> i suppose this minor version difference shouldn't matter but i'd rather not risk it 18:51 < jrayhawk> That's probably a security update. 18:51 < kanzure> okay. 18:52 < kanzure> hrm.. qt4-dev-tools isn't found 18:54 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-19-178.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56 < jrayhawk> There exists a qt4-dev-tools in feisty-backports 18:56 < kanzure> alright 18:56 < jrayhawk> oh, no wait, it's just mysteriously referenced there. hmm. 18:57 < kanzure> didn't work anyway :p 18:57 < kanzure> it seems to be referenced by libqt4-dev 18:58 < kanzure> as a recommends 18:59 < kanzure> well my other option is to compile it from the qt sources 18:59 < nmz787> http://www.northstreetlabs.org/laser.html 18:59 < nmz787> via hackaday 18:59 < nmz787> 1.3W 445nm laser video at end 19:00 < nmz787> nothin too crazy 19:00 < kanzure> jrayhawk: http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/q/qt4-x11/ ? 19:00 < kanzure> what is "universe" 19:01 < jrayhawk> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu 19:01 < kanzure> apt-get update is eating it up 19:01 < kanzure> aha 19:03 < kanzure> hrm.. qt4-dev-tools 4.3.2 is the latest version there 19:08 < kanzure> well that's not fair.. it runs on osx 10.6.8 without trouble 19:16 < kanzure> /dev/mem Operation not permitted 19:16 < kanzure> what operation :( 19:17 < jrayhawk> are you trying to start an x server 19:18 < kanzure> jrayhawk: just installing some qt4 packages 19:18 < jrayhawk> haha what the hell 19:18 < kanzure> it's a CAD program 19:18 < kanzure> anywho aptitude seems to have succeeded 19:19 < kanzure> o.o getting python-numarray=1.5.2-2.2ubuntu1 gets gcc-3.4-base 19:20 -!- nathaniel [~nathaniel@reddit/operator/nathaniel] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:23 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-163-157-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:28 -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:34 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-19-178.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:39 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-19-178.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-19-178.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:40 -!- klafka [~klafka@c-24-23-160-52.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:43 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-19-178.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:48 < kanzure> jrayhawk: how can i test this out? will ssh -X work? 19:49 < JayDugger> What do you test? 19:50 < jrayhawk> You'll have to forward the socket into it; socat can probably do that... 19:51 -!- ENKI-][ [~john@c-71-232-69-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:51 -!- drazak [~ahdfadkfa@drazak.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:51 -!- drazak [~ahdfadkfa@drazak.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:52 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i'm not familiar with that 19:53 < jrayhawk> Yeah, normally you'd want to bindmount /tmp into the chroot or just let it go over localhost, but you're not running it locally, so... 19:53 -!- Mokbortolan_1 [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:53 < jrayhawk> Give me a second and I can probably work it out. 19:53 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:53 -!- ENKI-][ [~john@c-71-232-69-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:55 < nmz787> jrayhawk: kanzure: you mean ssh -D? 19:55 < nmz787> SOCKS proxy? 19:56 < kanzure> nmz787: i am compiling nanoengineer on a remote server in a chroot 19:56 < kanzure> instead of downloading the entire chroot i can run it remotely 19:57 < kanzure> then use x11 forwarding over ssh to see what i'm doing 19:59 < jrayhawk> oh, durr, ssh forwards the socket as 127.0.0.1:6010 19:59 < jrayhawk> I was expecting a unix socket. 19:59 < jrayhawk> So, yeah, run it with DISPLAY=:10 20:00 < jrayhawk> oh, i guess you might need to copy your .Xauthority in there if you use -X, which is wise given how many users are on there. 20:01 < jrayhawk> if you use -Y, I'd suggest doing so in a dedicated nested server. 20:02 < JayDugger> Good point. 20:02 < kanzure> damndedy damn damn.. compile error 20:02 < kanzure> HDF5_SimResults.cpp: In member function 'int Nanorex::HDF5_SimResults::readMeasurement(const char*, const int&, const int&, const hid_t&, float&, std::string&)': 20:02 < kanzure> HDF5_SimResults.cpp:2110: error: cannot convert 'const hsize_t*' to 'const hsize_t**' for argument '4' to 'herr_t H5Sselect_elements(hid_t, H5S_seloper_t, size_t, const hsize_t**)' 20:02 < kanzure> hdf5.h wasn't available so i installed libhdf5-serial-dev .. perhaps that was the wrong choice 20:08 -!- ENKI-][ [~john@c-71-232-69-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:09 -!- ENKI-][ [~john@c-71-232-69-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:11 < klafka> so i'm going to build a collaborative filter in julia 20:20 < kanzure> i <3 nanoengineer's default organic molecules 20:20 < kanzure> amphetamine, cafeine, cocaine, morphine 20:20 < kanzure> *caffeine 20:24 < klafka> lol 20:30 -!- ybit is now known as dailybitcoins 20:31 -!- SDr [SDr@unaffiliated/sdr] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:35 < kanzure> fooey 20:36 < kanzure> it was fitzsim's fault 20:36 < kanzure> in d5eee582705e4f823d8aa1c33d5ccf07f49c2031 he was "fixing" this error 20:36 < klafka> hey kanzure python is pass by reference right? 20:36 < kanzure> it seems to work on my laptop because- i am guessing- a modern hdf5.h 20:37 < kanzure> klafka: yes but if you want to copy things.. from copy import copy, deepcopy 20:37 < klafka> right 20:37 < klafka> i was trying to make this function side effect free and i'mt rying to decide if i should or not 20:50 < klafka> hmm kanzure can you use 'del' for high level memory management? 20:50 < klafka> e.g. you create a large temporary variable foo and then no longer need it can you del foo to free up memory? 20:51 < klafka> in python 21:01 < kanzure> you can use del on your own yes 21:02 < kanzure> jrayhawk: well it's done compiling 21:02 < gnusha> nanoengineer.git: d942d3d remove bends_rcsid and bonds_rcsid from sim/src/newtables.c 21:08 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:12 -!- dailybitcoins is now known as ybit 21:19 < gnusha> nanoengineer.git: 4b96310 ignore more build objects 21:19 < gnusha> nanoengineer.git: da5eeec these two Makefiles get overwritten via automake 21:19 < gnusha> nanoengineer.git: 5d4c84f Revert change to HDF5_SimResults.cpp from d5eee5. 21:28 < klafka> is it bad if a library you are building in python depends on scipy? 21:28 < klafka> that's a fairly standard requirement for numerical computing in python 21:28 < klafka> right? 21:31 < nmz787> kanzure: are you working on nanoengineer stuff now? 21:31 < nmz787> README looks good 21:32 < nmz787> although the anchor/section links aren't correct in the top section 21:32 < nmz787> oh, nevermind 21:32 < nmz787> i think my browser just wanted to screw with me 21:33 < gnusha> nanoengineer.git: 640e48b even more .gitignore refinements 21:33 < gnusha> nanoengineer.git: 4ed98e9 remove old makefiles from cad/src/ and sim/src/ 21:33 < gnusha> nanoengineer.git: 6a8f1c5 atombase.c and samevals.c should also be ignored 21:34 < gnusha> nanoengineer.git: 4febd2a atombase.c and samevals.c should also be ignored 21:35 < kanzure> klafka: scipy is perfectly fine to use 21:38 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i'm fairly lost about ssh -X here.. ssh -X bryan@gnusha.org "DISPLAY=:10 sudo chroot /root/nanoengineer-chroot 'python ~/code/nanoengineer/cad/src/main.py'" ? 21:40 < nmz787> you might have to set the DISPLAY inside the chroot 21:41 -!- nathaniel [~nathaniel@reddit/operator/nathaniel] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:41 < nmz787> kanzure: http://dgz.dyndns.org/mediawiki/index.php/HOWTO_X11_forwarding_a_chroot 21:42 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:44 < kanzure> "xauth add $(cat /tmp/X)" doesn't work because /tmp is not the same 21:45 < nmz787> email? 21:45 < kanzure> what? 21:45 < nmz787> so you don't have any common directories? 21:46 < kanzure> it's chroot.. 21:47 < nmz787> "Find a carelessly-left hard link that leads outside the jail (though symbolic links don't escape jail, hard links do)." 21:48 < kanzure> _X11TransSocketINETConnect() can't get address for localhost:6010: Name or service not known 21:49 < nmz787> # mount --bind /tmp /tmp/chroot/tmp 21:49 < nmz787> (or wherever your chroot is 21:49 < nmz787> ) 21:50 < kanzure> actually i don't have mount permission on my vserver anyway 21:51 < nmz787> hardlink didnt work? 21:51 < nmz787> wait 21:52 < nmz787> why can't you just export the magic cookie to a file in the chroot dir 21:52 < nmz787> then it will be there when you chroot 21:54 < kanzure> i'll just copy the file contents. no big deal. 21:58 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@cpe-67-242-177-23.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:01 < kanzure> hrmm i guess i will have to figure out how to run X too 22:06 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-18-64.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:06 < kanzure> jrayhawk: *poke* 22:07 < kanzure> well i guess i need to get xterm forwarding first outside of the chroot 22:07 -!- AdrianG [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:08 -!- AdrianG [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:14 < jrayhawk> "i'll just copy the file contents. no big deal." sounds like a fine plan; what's the problem? 22:16 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i'm trying to run xterm on gnusha without the chroot, and this isn't working 22:16 < kanzure> i figure this is a good first test case 22:17 < kanzure> bryan@gnusha:~$ echo $DISPLAY gives me localhost:10.0 22:18 < jrayhawk> xterm doesn't run for me either; don't know why 22:18 < jrayhawk> xlinks2 works fine, though! 22:18 < kanzure> oh there we go 22:18 < kanzure> alright then 22:21 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i get, "_X11TransSocketINETConnect() can't get address for localhost:6011: Name or service not known" 22:21 < kanzure> "xterm Xt error: Can't open display: localhost:11.0" 22:22 < kanzure> inside the chroot 22:22 < jrayhawk> Oh, yeah, /etc/root@gnusha:/# cat /etc/hosts 22:22 < jrayhawk> cat: /etc/hosts: No such file or directory 22:22 < jrayhawk> hurf 22:22 < kanzure> ssh -X bryan@gnusha.org -> xauth list, su, chroot /root/nanoengineer-chroot/ /bin/bash, su nanoengineeruser, xauth add $(cat /pasted/file) 22:23 < kanzure> should i add "gnusha" as an entry? 22:23 < jrayhawk> you can use DISPLAY=127.0.0.1:11 or :6011 or something I think? 22:23 < jrayhawk> But yeah, a 127.0.0.1 localhost entry will make your life easier 22:23 < kanzure> Warning: locale not supported by C library, locale unchanged 22:23 < kanzure> xterm: Error 32, errno 2: No such file or directory 22:23 < kanzure> Reason: get_pty: not enough ptys 22:24 < kanzure> xterm Xt error: Can't open display: 127.0.0.1:6011 22:24 < kanzure> i guess i shouldn't be trying with xterm 22:24 < jrayhawk> Yeah, xterm has complicated demands 22:24 < kanzure> xeyes it is! 22:24 < kanzure> there we go 22:24 < kanzure> DISPLAY=127.0.0.1:11 xeyes 22:25 < kanzure> aww i got an exception in python 22:26 < kanzure> X Error: BadAccess (attempt to access private resource denied) 10 22:26 < kanzure> Major opcode: 2 (X_ChangeWindowAttributes) 22:46 < kanzure> OSError: glut: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory 22:47 < kanzure> at 22:47 < kanzure> ok freeglut3 fixes th 22:47 < kanzure> *that 22:47 < kanzure> Xlib: extension "GLX" missing on display "127.0.0.1:11.0". 22:50 < kanzure> ok freeglut3 fixes th 22:50 < kanzure> *i get the same error when trying to run glxgears from mesa-util 22:52 < kanzure> "glxinfo -display 127.0.0.1:11" says the same thing about glx missing 23:05 < jrayhawk> Yeah, dri will be a bit difficult without /dev/dri 23:06 < jrayhawk> libgl1-mesa-swx11 is probably what you want 23:06 < kanzure> on my localhost? 23:06 < jrayhawk> On the remote host. 23:06 < kanzure> in the chroot? 23:06 < jrayhawk> Yeah. 23:07 < kanzure> it says it will remove "libgl1-mesa-dev libgl1-mesa-dri libgl1-mesa-glx libglu1-mesa-dev libglu1-xorg-dev libqt4-dev xlibmesa-gl-dev" 23:10 < jrayhawk> good 23:10 < kanzure> glxgears doesn't seem to work :/ 23:10 < kanzure> oh, no, it's just very slow 23:10 < kanzure> ok cool 23:10 < kanzure> 2 frames in 6.8 seconds = 0.294 FPS 23:12 < kanzure> well it seems to run 23:14 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:15 -!- Charlie [~quassel@64.31.59.70] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:15 -!- Charlie is now known as Guest13954 23:16 -!- Guest13954 is now known as poptire 23:18 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@81.61.208.218.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:20 < gnusha> nanoengineer.git: 4a5b6dc two minor changes to get source running on target machines 23:20 < kanzure> ok making a tarball 23:22 -!- klafka [~klafka@c-24-23-160-52.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:23 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@81.61.208.218.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:23 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@81.61.208.218.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:27 -!- klafka [~klafka@c-67-174-253-229.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:28 < kanzure> jrayhawk: thanks for the assist 23:28 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/nanoengineer/nanoengineer-chroot-debootstrap 23:28 < kanzure> (1.2 GB) http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/nanoengineer/nanoengineer-chroot.tar.gz 23:29 < kanzure> can someone please confirm that it works for them? 23:30 < kanzure> su nanoengineeruser 23:30 < kanzure> python ~/code/nanoengineer/cad/src/main.py 23:30 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:38 < gnusha> nanoengineer.git: 2a02220 chroot creation script (tutorial) 23:47 -!- AdrianG [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:53 < jrayhawk> You might want to apt-get clean before making that tar file 23:54 < kanzure> kl'slsdjjlsdjkl;asd 23:56 < kanzure> eh that only removed a few megabytes --- Log closed Mon Apr 30 00:00:56 2012