--- Log opened Sun Jun 03 00:00:29 2012
00:21 -!- srangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:23 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
00:23 -!- srangewarp is now known as strangewarp
00:27 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:54 -!- bkero [~Ben@li280-127.members.linode.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:54 -!- bkero [~Ben@li280-127.members.linode.com] has quit [Changing host]
00:54 -!- bkero [~Ben@osuosl/staff/bkero] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:55 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@c-98-201-2-186.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep]
00:56 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@c-98-201-2-186.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:46 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@c-98-201-2-186.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep]
02:25 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-76-105-164-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:47 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-5-109.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:03 -!- thyla [~userid@c-24-61-126-211.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: <neopolitan> I come here to insult and troll and ban people and have fun doing it. i can't be distracted from my playtime with these philosophical discussions]
03:04 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
03:22 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-5-109.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
04:00 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:02 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr.inka-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:02 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr.inka-online.net] has quit [Changing host]
04:02 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:34 -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has quit []
05:14 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:51 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
05:53 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:04 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
07:05 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:09 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr.inka-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:09 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr.inka-online.net] has quit [Changing host]
07:09 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:23 <@kanzure> "Friday, June 1, 2012; Neuroscientists at Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory (CSHL) reached an important milestone today, publicly releasing the first installment out of 500 TB of data so far collected in their path-breaking project to construct the first whole-brain wiring diagram of a vertebrate brain, that of the mouse"
07:23 <@kanzure> http://mouse.brainarchitecture.org/
07:24 <@kanzure> " The data consist of gigapixel images (each close to 1 billion pixels) of whole-brain sections that can be zoomed to show individual neurons and their processes, providing a "virtual microscope."
07:24 <@kanzure> can anyone get this on gigapan please? :(
07:24 <@kanzure> "he team's use of four tracers including both classical tracer substances as well as neurotropic viruses (attenuated or disabled viruses that infect nerve cells), provides redundancy and helps control for differing efficacies of the different tracer substances. The images one sees on the MBA Project website begininng today provide hard data on actual neuronal processes­the "ground truth" of neuroanatomy, in Mitra's words­and do not rely on infere
07:24 <@kanzure> http://brainarchitecture.org/mouse/documentation/project-white-paper
07:25 <@kanzure> 2009 position papr http://www.ploscompbiol.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pcbi.1000334
07:25 <@kanzure> *paper
07:26 <@kanzure> some neat connectome papers over here: http://mitraweb1.cshl.edu:8080/BrainArchitecture/pages/publications.faces
07:41 -!- Steel2 [4464ee0c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.100.238.12] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:45 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:45 < Steel2> yo bro
07:45 < yashgaroth> oh hey
07:45 < Steel2> sup
07:45 < yashgaroth> I'm on my monthly 'oh I can totally skip a night and reset my sleep schedule'
07:46 < yashgaroth> it always fails, but I seem to forgot that after a month or so
07:46 < yashgaroth> and the cycle repeats anew
07:50 <@kanzure> no you fool you're supposed to skip /two/ nights
07:50 <@kanzure> .. or was that zero?
07:50 < yashgaroth> too late for zero now
07:51 <@kanzure> i wonder if we can convince 3scan to work on open source neuro-slice analyzing software
07:52 <@kanzure> erm.. neurohistology boundary detection software
07:58 < dixiebassline> cold springs harbour is where its at
07:58 < dixiebassline> has been for what, over a hundred years now?
08:02 < Steel2> yashgaroth: got 4 hours of sleep over two nights...3.5 on one .5 on the other
08:02 < Steel2> lol
08:02 < yashgaroth> it's all or nothing for me
08:03 < yashgaroth> oh so I will be driving up if mr ancient lasers wants a ride, but I'm heading up monday so he'd have to keep busy til friday
08:04 < Steel2> hmm
08:04 < Steel2> did you talk to him
08:04 < Steel2> on fb?
08:04 < yashgaroth> nnnnnope
08:07 < yashgaroth> also, based on previous experience with LA traffic, he better live outside the city proper or else
08:12 < Steel2> santa monica I think
08:12 < Steel2> add Dan Finfer
08:12 < Steel2> he's on my friends list
08:16 < yashgaroth> whoa how does he know io
08:19 < Steel2> he knows everyone
08:19 <@kanzure> he doesn't know me.
08:26 < Steel2> fair :P
08:26 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-69-150.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:28 < Steel2> sup eudoxia
08:28 < eudoxia> hey steel
08:30 < Steel2> how goes
08:32 < eudoxia> pretty ordinarily so far
08:56  * ybit reaches in his bag for bones to throw and discovers he's all out
09:10 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-36-67.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:25 < jmil> kanzure: are u there?
09:25 < jmil> paper proofs returned, should be out very soon
09:25 -!- neuro-sys [~neuro@unaffiliated/neurosys/x-283974] has quit [Quit: .]
09:25 <@kanzure> don't make me do things! i'm innocent!
09:25 <@kanzure> oh
09:25 <@kanzure> that's great
09:44 -!- Jora [~Jora@24-196-83-11.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:44 -!- Jora [~Jora@24-196-83-11.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Changing host]
09:44 -!- Jora [~Jora@unaffiliated/jora] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:45 < archels> re: http://mouse.brainarchitecture.org
09:46 < archels> Individual neurons? We want individual spines! :(
09:46 <@kanzure> isn't this 1 nm/pixel? that's enough to get spines
09:47 <@kanzure> although 20 microns in between each slice is pretty bad - a lot can happen in 20 microns
09:47 < archels> I zoomed in to the maximum level on their website, but I only poked around for like 2 minutes--maybe I was looking at the wrong thing.
09:48 <@kanzure> ah well, i didn't :)
09:48 < archels> kanzure: What do you think of plastification as a new method for "cryonics"?
09:49 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-69-150.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
09:49 <@kanzure> no comment at the moment.
09:53 < archels> I'm hopeful.
09:54 < archels> Obviously you lose the chance to revive the plastified body, as opposed (putatively) to cryogenics.
09:56 <@kanzure> i don't think anyone has even studied thaw-and-scan damage
09:56 < archels> I expect they keep the samples frozen while scanning them.
09:56 <@kanzure> given multiple slices from the same brain, freeze-thaw-scan a slice and scan another slice
09:57 <@kanzure> cutting is harder if they are frozen
09:57 <@kanzure> if you make the slices before freezing, you usually lose the connection info from slice to slice
09:57 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-36-67.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: jmil]
09:57 <@kanzure> nevermind, i'm confusing multiple things here.
09:58 <@kanzure> the point is: record while you cut into slices. :P
10:02 -!- Steel2 [4464ee0c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.100.238.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
10:05 -!- moriarty [~art@unaffiliated/moriarty] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:07 < archels> But we prefer to slice the sample while it's still frozen, right?
10:08 <@kanzure> archels: i think it would be better to slice it pre-freezing
10:24 -!- _sol_ [Sol@c-174-57-58-11.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:39 -!- audy [~audy@unaffiliated/audy] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net]
10:43 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:54 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@adsl-69-151-150-108.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:54 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@adsl-69-151-150-108.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Changing host]
10:54 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:56 -!- audy [~audy@heyaudy.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:56 -!- audy [~audy@heyaudy.com] has quit [Excess Flood]
10:58 -!- audy [~audy@heyaudy.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:59 -!- audy [~audy@heyaudy.com] has quit [Changing host]
10:59 -!- audy [~audy@unaffiliated/audy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:11 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:19 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-24-63-135-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:25 < lichen> lol... this blog fight is pretty dumb
11:25 < chris_99> blog fight?
11:25 < lichen> http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2012/05/deconstructing-our-future.html ---> http://www.acceler8or.com/2012/05/when-i-called-charlie-stross-a-dirty-name-transhumanist/ ---> http://amormundi.blogspot.de/2012/06/criticizing-transhumanism-is-hate-crime.html
11:29 < yashgaroth> keeping track of all the inter-transhumanist feuds would take more effort than I care to muster, which is none
11:34 <@kanzure> none of those blogs are worth reading
11:34 < chris_99> can you suggest any good blogs btw?
11:34 <@kanzure> no. stop reading blogs.
11:36 < dixiebassline> only read al jazerra and fox
11:36 < dixiebassline> those are real information sources
11:43 <@kanzure> what? why would you do that
11:52 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: jmil]
11:54 < dixiebassline> lol
12:15 -!- neuro-sys [~neuro@unaffiliated/neurosys/x-283974] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:27 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-66-5.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:37 < Mariu> lol
12:38 < eudoxia> Charles Stross' blog has some interesting things
12:38 < eudoxia> those others seem to be always the same thing: "transhumanoidism is a religion" -> "yes but its a good one praise Tipler" -> "herp derp second life"
12:44 < Mariu> hmm
12:46 <@kanzure> eudoxia: you know what's terrible? "transhumanist events" in "second life"
12:46 < eudoxia> I don't even want to know
12:46 < ThomasEgi> a palm, a kingdom for a palm, i need to facepalm!
12:47 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@cpe-67-242-177-23.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:52 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@cpe-67-242-177-23.rochester.res.rr.com] has left ##hplusroadmap []
12:58 < dixiebassline> idk about a religion, but if we could get a secular transhumanist global government, we could be on the road to great things
13:00 < Jora> Agreed.
13:00 < archels> I shiver even at the idea of a "global government."
13:01 < moriarty> archels, what are you on about? think EU but on a larger scale
13:01 < moriarty> :)
13:01 < dixiebassline> somethigns got to stop the traditional cycle of civilization
13:02 < dixiebassline> otherwise the west will continue to fall
13:02 < dixiebassline> as the east rises
13:02 < dixiebassline> and i dont want to live in communist china
13:02 < archels> moriarty: right on
13:10 < eudoxia> a transhumanist government, even local, would be an interesting thing to see
13:14 < dixiebassline> its not so much of a new idea. This guy Adam Weishaupt had what were called the 'perfectables' the beliefe that man could perfect himself to the point he no longer required the supervision of governmnets or religion.
13:14 < dixiebassline> obv this drew attention from the govts and religions of the world who declared him evil
13:14 < dixiebassline> lol
13:15 < dixiebassline> i kind of see h+ as an extention of that philosophy
13:21 < Jora> What is the definition of perfection? That is entirely subjective.
13:22 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-66-5.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:22 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-66-5.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:22 < dixiebassline> sort of like the concept of utopia ?
13:22 < dixiebassline> in this case though after some point perfection would be left to the individual
13:23 < dixiebassline> i gues that point woudl be the h+ ?
13:24 < dixiebassline> the point being that we could assume that all adults woudl from that point on make reasonable decisions without further guidance from other adults
13:27 < eudoxia> reminds me of this quote "Humans are too stupid for anarchy. We become gods first, then anarchists."
13:29 < klafka> i can't believe people use second life
13:29 < klafka> i thought they mainly used it for weird fetishes
13:30 < dixiebassline> yeah humans are too stupid for anarchy
13:30 < dixiebassline> they need to become gods first
13:30 < dixiebassline> nice
13:30 < klafka> http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/03/vernor-vinge-geeks-guide-galaxy/all/
13:31 < eudoxia> klafka: I know, right?
13:31 < AlonzoTG> What do you do when you are confronted by someone who is in the 98th percentile in terms of IQ and intellectual achievement comes to you and basically implies that he is working towards coercive uploading you, your cat, and everyone you know?
13:31 < dixiebassline> lol the 2nd google result for searching for that quote comes up to a site ive already got bookmarked
13:32 < eudoxia> is that an Accelerando quote?
13:33 < dixiebassline> mike price
13:33 < dixiebassline> apparently
13:33 < dixiebassline> http://www.aleph.se/Trans/Cultural/Art/memer.txt
13:33 < AlonzoTG> I still have a chapter left in Accelerando,
13:33 < eudoxia> I meant what AlonzoTG posted
13:33 < AlonzoTG> not terribly eager to read it though. =\
13:34 < eudoxia> I thought the first two parts were good
13:34 < AlonzoTG> no, I was just thinking about that,
13:34 < eudoxia> oh
13:34 < eudoxia> the thing about the cat upload made me think it was from Accelerando
13:34 < AlonzoTG> The uploaders are also generally extremely high-IQ people that it is difficult NOT to take what they say as a deadly serious threat.
13:34 < strangewarp> Accelerando started great and ended .. okay, I guess
13:35 < strangewarp> klafka: Even the people who use Second Life for weird fetishes end up hitting a wall of malaise after a while I think, since it's all imagery, no sensation
13:36 < AlonzoTG> Even fullscreen on a 24" monitor, the avatars are about 2 inches tall.
13:36 < AlonzoTG> and the engine is limited to the point of being completely crippled.
13:36 < eudoxia> forever in beta
13:36 < Mariu> lol
13:36 < AlonzoTG> The recient UI changes have rendered it completely unusable.
13:37 < eudoxia> soon all the weird fetish people will move on to using Google Glasses to overlay furry porn on normal humans
13:37 < eudoxia> that's kind of an interesting computer vision problem
13:37 < AlonzoTG> =\
13:37 < AlonzoTG> not my thing.
13:37 < AlonzoTG> But then I'm several deviations away from anything recognisable.
13:38 < eudoxia> aren't we all?
13:39 < Mariu> I would love to play a game where you could feel, hear the wind, watch dark-grey clouds on the sky, and hear distant deep thunder sounds. Even feel tiny rain droplets
13:40 <@kanzure> AlonzoTG: i don't think "IQ" has anything to do with "coercive uploading", sorry bro
13:40 < AlonzoTG> yeah, I've been contemplating a neural interface system that'd do that.
13:41 <@kanzure> why do you want to build a coercive interface ?
13:41 <@kanzure> that doesn't sound productive
13:41 < AlonzoTG> It's effectively post-singularity tech though,
13:55 <@kanzure> ((i also think that someone with "low IQ" could coerce you to do things; so i don't see what IQ has to do with it))
13:56 < Jora> that would be a cool interface mariu
14:02 -!- splicer [~ubuntu@c83-255-190-140.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
14:07 -!- drazak [~ahdfadkfa@drazak.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
14:08 -!- drazak [~ahdfadkfa@drazak.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:11 -!- OldCoder [~OldCoder@c-69-181-140-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:14 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@c-98-201-2-186.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:15 < rigel> wow do we talk a lot about iq in here?
14:15 <@kanzure> no
14:15 <@kanzure> i try to stop them :(
14:15 <@kanzure> i fail often
14:16 < rigel> i can troll people who talk about iq all day and twice on sunday
14:16 <@kanzure> rigel: you are very welcome to proceed with said trolling
14:16 < rigel> its almost unsporting
14:21 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-66-5.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
14:27 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-5-109.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:28 <@kanzure> rigel: so, the phantomjs framework i'm writing will use a message queue
14:28 <@kanzure> rigel: https://gist.github.com/80badcf6c66c7a3d8d8e
14:41 < rigel> im not sure what that means/implies
14:42 <@kanzure> imagine you are in the unfortunate position of managing a few thousand phantomjs instances
14:42 <@kanzure> a queue provides a way to let each worker read upcoming tasks
14:42 < rigel> javascript everywhere, that would be unfortunate
14:43 <@kanzure> javascript is very unfortunate, yes.
14:43 < rigel> i think js and php are both solid arguments against your thesis of human intelligence etc
14:44 <@kanzure> js doesn't seem as poorly designed as php's api
14:46 < rigel> clearly i need to work on my programming chops
14:46 < rigel> perhaps i will have some time in 2018 after my residency is completed
14:46  * rigel pencils it in in his day-timer
14:46 < moriarty> rigel, what residency?
14:47 < rigel> the thing you do after medical school is nominally over
14:47 < moriarty> rigel, yes, what residency? neurology, or?
14:47 < moriarty> :-)
14:47 < rigel> oh i have no idea
14:47 < rigel> primary care of some sort, most likely
14:47 < dixiebassline> if you're into that sort of thing :P
14:48 < rigel> unless i do medical genetics or oncology or addiction medicine or clinical informatics in addition to any of those
14:48 < moriarty> ah bioinformatics slant
14:48 < rigel> clinical informatics, not bioinformatics
14:48 < dixiebassline> last thing id want to do is be around sick people all day
14:48 < dixiebassline> or old people
14:48 < dixiebassline> or old sick people with cancer
14:48 < dixiebassline> logans run ftw
14:49 < rigel> bioinformatics scares me, i took a class on it for my masters and it was like learning that all the stuff you used in day to day existence as a bench researcher was essentially black magic
14:49 < moriarty> same difference
14:49 < moriarty> they call it translational bioinformatics these days or whatever
14:49 < rigel> all of the assumptions that the bioinformatics field is based on need constant re-evaluation, which noone does
14:50 <@kanzure> btw, it *is* black magic
14:50 < rigel> oh, i know
14:50 < rigel> my professor's reply was "it's black magic, but it works!"
14:50 <@kanzure> i wish there was some way to make it.. not black magic
14:50 < yashgaroth> "...sometimes"
14:50 < rigel> define "works" there, miss
14:51 < moriarty> it's an emergent field, black magic will disappear after awhile
14:51 <@kanzure> mechanical insertion of plasmids directly into cells seems way more efficient than electroporation or cacl2 transformation
14:51 < rigel> ah, "emergent"
14:51 < rigel> another word that means "we have no fucking idea"
14:51 < moriarty> once they rigorously prove its performance bounds et al
14:51 < rigel> moriarty: i hope that you're being snarky
14:52 < moriarty> rigel, i'm not
14:53  * kanzure gets some popcorn
14:53 < yashgaroth> so uh, doctor-programmer seems like a rare combination
14:54 < dixiebassline> buckaroo banzi
14:54 <@kanzure> "i wrote your dx in haskell, fuck off and die"
14:54 <@kanzure> welp i'm ready for the job
14:54 <@kanzure> got my trusty copy of robins, that's all i need, right? right?
14:55 < rigel> yashgaroth: you'd think that all the fucking early adopters (~40% of my class has an ipad) would translate to people actually interested in using the tech effectively
14:55 < rigel> but no
14:55 < yashgaroth> eh, they'll all end up driving sports cars with no idea what's under the hood
14:55 < rigel> there are two or three people who used to be web devs or engineers of some stripe
14:56 < rigel> and thats it
14:56 < rigel> i am constantly asking them questions in the hope that they will know something i dont
14:56 <@kanzure> "used to be" ?
14:56 < yashgaroth> that's a higher number than I'd expect, tbh
14:56 < rigel> in a previous career
14:56 < rigel> lots of career changers at my school
14:56 < rigel> like me
14:56 < rigel> i am mid-30s
14:56 < rigel> older than 99% of the class
14:57 < rigel> but theres a good 10% that are 28-32
14:57 < yashgaroth> but you can make doctor level money with programming, and people don't die when you throw an exception
14:57 <@kanzure> i do
14:57 <@kanzure> every time you throw an exception, a little part of me dies
14:58 < rigel> yashgaroth: the career changers, i've found, are a little less concerned with money
14:58 < rigel> there are a couple of former bankers/quants too
14:59 < rigel> its not like they needed to become a doctor to make money
14:59 < rigel> i am not a programmer, i am a tinkerer
14:59 < yashgaroth> don't tell patients you're a tinkerer
15:00 < rigel> i am not into that whole paternalism either
15:01 < rigel> they teach us that its bad, which i am pleased to see, but in practice it doesnt really make much difference since 75% of medical students come from families in the top two income quintiles
15:01 < rigel> theyre used to making decisions for the little people
15:01 <@kanzure> sounds inefficient
15:01 < moriarty> top two income quintile isn't all that impressive though
15:02 < Jora> md/phd is probably the best way to do med school
15:02 < moriarty> heh Jora
15:02 < rigel> md/phd is great if you're fresh out of college and have never experienced real life
15:02 < Jora> im saying that because most of the time its all paid for..no debt haha
15:02 < rigel> that's 10 years plus residency
15:02 < moriarty> most of the people i know who come from top income quintiles do not even bother with college
15:02 < rigel> debt is not an issue
15:02 < yashgaroth> why not throw a jd in there for good measure
15:02 < rigel> its all imaginary money
15:03 <@kanzure> you guys should stop going to school
15:03 < rigel> i will be happy to have 10% of my income taken out for the rest of my life, etc
15:03 < rigel> because theres no fucking way i would have been able to get to this point otherwise
15:03 < rigel> im still paying off undergrad from a state school
15:03 < Jora> rigel are you just doing regular md then
15:03 < rigel> the fuck do i care
15:03 < Jora> oh sheesh
15:03 < rigel> Jora: yeah
15:04 < rigel> and i did a masters in order to get into med school because 2 application cycles got me nowhere
15:04 <@kanzure> aren't you 30something?
15:04 <@kanzure> did you just get out of undergrad?
15:04 < rigel> sigh
15:04 <@kanzure> sorry, maybe i misread
15:04 < moriarty> heh
15:04 <@kanzure> math, and all.
15:04 < rigel> ok, so this is not stuff i normally tell people, but this is the internets
15:04 < rigel> so, you know, here goes
15:04 <@kanzure> in a coma for five years? :)
15:05 < moriarty> rigel, by masters, do you mean an SMP?
15:05 < rigel> shitty upbringing, abuse, etc, abortive first attempts at college, kicked out, kicked out of house, 4 years homeless, back in to community college, upper division at state school in a science degree, four years working at a bench, one year doing a masters, and now here
15:05 < rigel> that just about accounts for everything
15:05 <@kanzure> what sorta benchwork?
15:05 < moriarty> nice background
15:05 < rigel> cancer
15:05 <@kanzure> btw i was also kicked out, haters gonna hate
15:06 < rigel> my goal as a physician is to prevent the shit that happened to me from happening to other people
15:06 < Jora> i never got kicked out first time around didnt want to be there & wanted to take a break
15:06 < rigel> thus the primary care focus
15:06 <@kanzure> (mostly because they couldn't stand waiting four months for me to leave, apparently)
15:06 < moriarty> Jora, nice :-)
15:06 <@kanzure> ah no i meant kicked out of my home :p
15:06 < rigel> so i was 28 when i finished undergrad
15:07 < moriarty> lol kanzure
15:07 <@kanzure> i see, you meant kicked out of college
15:07 < moriarty> i suppose it's an honour of sorts if you were kicked out from an Ivy
15:07 < rigel> i wouldnt be here if it werent for student loans and throwing caution to the wind
15:07 <@kanzure> so, not to be rude
15:08 <@kanzure> but 4 years on a bench sounds painful
15:08 < rigel> it became painful after a while
15:08 <@kanzure> lots of cancer culture lines?
15:08 < rigel> it was neat but i was sort of in a holding pattern waiting for school
15:08 < rigel> yeah lots of tissue culture, some in vivo work (which means i will never be a surgeon)
15:08 < dixiebassline> e 75% of medical students come from families in the top two income quintiles - one more reason to not like drs/ that and never trust anyone who spends that much time in school / institutionalized they might be a communist if nothing worse
15:09 < rigel> i did 2 years, applied for school, that didnt pan out, so i stayed on for a little while longer while there was still some grant money and eventually had to leave
15:09 < rigel> i was a temp worker in industry for like 2 months
15:09 < Jora> with me i graduate with a psych degree at 23, lived at home and worked in customer service due to parental insistence, did a paralegal certificate also at parental insistence, started an mba a parental insistence, hated it, moved out and am now studying CIS and working in customer service at my own insistence.
15:09 < rigel> that was a fucking fiasco
15:09 <@kanzure> temp work for what
15:09 < rigel> biotech. drugs.
15:10 < Jora> temp work blech
15:10 < yashgaroth> oh jesus, academic lab salary and a presumably unfunded masters'?
15:10 < rigel> my first day in the lab was horrifying and i eventually dropped a dime to the NIH about their treatment of the animals because of it
15:10 < moriarty> Jora, nice background
15:11 < moriarty> i like that MBA/legal slant
15:11 < Jora> :/ thats why the idea of animal research kind of scares me
15:11 < rigel> nih? i dont remember, one of the fed agencies that oversees that
15:11 < moriarty> Jora, there are computational approaches too
15:11 < yashgaroth> fda maybe
15:11 < Jora> I didn't complete my mba just took a couple classes
15:11 < rigel> Jora: it depends on the animal facility
15:11 < moriarty> so you'd never have to touch slicing :)
15:11 < rigel> the director at my mostly-bench job was more academic and the facility director was really on top of things
15:11 < Jora> Family on my arse about finishing. Yeah moriarty thats an angle Id considered
15:12 < rigel> the facility director for the industry gig, though, knew about this particular PI's predilection for not giving a shit about the animals and in a subtle way tried to warn me during the interview process
15:12 < rigel> but ultimately she was going along with it
15:12 < rigel> so fuck her
15:12 < ParahSailin> you ratted some lab out for animal abuse?
15:12 < rigel> it seemed like it was just the one PI, but yeah ParahSailin
15:12 < yashgaroth> pun intended I hope
15:13 <@kanzure> pun license revoked
15:13 < rigel> and i mean, feds investigated, said it was warranted, but ultimately no action was taken
15:13 < ParahSailin> was it to punish him for something else? or because you think animals have rights?
15:13 < rigel> it was because his behavior was reckless and bad science
15:13 <@kanzure> i think he might mean that the standards of care weren't being followed
15:14 < rigel> you dont just willy-nilly go off-protocol because youre not getting the response you want
15:14 < ParahSailin> ah he was cheating
15:15 < rigel> right, and it resulted in the completely forseeable death of an animal
15:15 < rigel> and then he was not euthanizing the animals under enough anesthesia either
15:15 <@kanzure> oh great.
15:16 < rigel> i fucking sat on it too for about a year before filing a complaint
15:17 < rigel> oh right, and the day of the incident, the lab director had told us all to document better because the group apparently wasnt doing so
15:17 < rigel> but when i spoke to him about the incident privately he was like yeah, that doesnt really need to go in there, its fine
15:17 < rigel> so i fucking put it in there and kept photocopies
15:18 < rigel> spleen: vented
15:18 < moriarty> lol reminds me of my former university, where animal rights activists campaigned right outside claiming that marmosets were braindamaged in the investigation of Parkinsons etc
15:18 < moriarty> good times
15:19 <@kanzure> rigel: so, why didn't they revoke his funding or penalize him?
15:19 <@kanzure> s/his/her
15:19 < rigel> they didnt tell me that
15:19 < yashgaroth> because that shit happens all the time
15:19 < rigel> they just said "weve completed the investigation, we believe it was warranted, we are taking no disciplinary action at this time"
15:19 <@kanzure> so, it occurs to me that you want to fund people who aren't dishonest
15:19 <@kanzure> ... in general.
15:19 < rigel> who knows whether there was other action etc
15:20 < rigel> back-channel
15:20 < rigel> or whether that PI was even there anymore for that matter
15:20 < ParahSailin> well what exactly is the incentive for nih bureaucrats to fund legit science
15:21 < rigel> and i mean, the animal facility people could have been covering their ass enough to escape disciplinary action
15:21 < rigel> though that doesnt mean that the PI doesnt have a problem
15:21 < rigel> lots of gray in an institution like that
15:21 < rigel> it certainly doesnt undermine my faith in those institutions, i know they are falliable but theyre the best weve got
15:21 < rigel> it sure as hell reinforced my idea of industry as a cesspool though
15:22 <@kanzure> what i find crazy is that these undergrads and grad students really will spend four-eight years at bench
15:22 <@kanzure> these are highly skilled individuals
15:22 <@kanzure> molecular biology grads are some of the craziest
15:22 <@kanzure> and then if they go off to work at anaphore, they get paid like $10/hour
15:22 < yashgaroth> hey now
15:22 <@kanzure> haha
15:23 < rigel> you know
15:23 < ParahSailin> thats how a cartel works
15:23 < rigel> i mean, since we're talking pipe dreams on the road to crazytown
15:23 <@kanzure> choo choo
15:23 < rigel> i want to do the following
15:23 < rigel> 1) start a new -pathic medical school
15:23 < rigel> i.e. not allo or osteopathic
15:24 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: still, i wonder how things could be changed
15:24 < ParahSailin> raise restrictive barriers, derive rent from the resultant labor glut
15:24 < rigel> 2) teach prisoners how to do bench science
15:24 < ParahSailin> violate the FUCK out of patents
15:24 < rigel> because that's a solid job
15:24 <@kanzure> wait, actually..
15:24 < ParahSailin> smash the barriers
15:24 <@kanzure> what do you guys think the chances are i could get a smart molecular biology guy for $10/hour is?
15:24 <@kanzure> like how much experience
15:24 <@kanzure> and what about $15 or $20/hour?
15:24 < moriarty> lol kanzure, cheap bastard
15:24 < rigel> my bench job was $16 for the duration, basically
15:25 < rigel> but with lots of bennies
15:25 <@kanzure> bennies?
15:25 <@kanzure> ok, so the going rate for good programmers is $125+/hour
15:25 < yashgaroth>  20 is pretty standard for a new BS in industry, less for academia
15:25 < rigel> full insurance coverage, matching 403b
15:25 <@kanzure> i can totally afford to pay $15-$40/hour for some awesome biologist to dick around
15:25 < rigel> but i was also working on something i found neat
15:25 < rigel> cannabinoids
15:25 <@kanzure> oh, hrm. full insurance.
15:25 < rigel> and i was doing so in an awesome city
15:26 < ParahSailin> make capital artificially expensive; get lots of artificially cheap labor
15:26 < ParahSailin> profit!
15:26 < yashgaroth> industry gets away without insurance
15:26 < dixiebassline> the fuck are you programming for 125$ an hour
15:26 < dixiebassline> my mechanic doesnt make that and he has to do work
15:26 <@kanzure> dixiebassline: everything
15:26 < dixiebassline> not jsut play on the computer all day
15:26 <@kanzure> dixiebassline: i've been coding nonstop for years man
15:26 <@kanzure> and btw, i didn't say i make 125/hour, that's just the going rate for someone with a bit of good experience
15:26 < dixiebassline> i can tell
15:26 < dixiebassline> ive seen your cideos
15:26 <@kanzure> someone with a lot of experience can make much more
15:26 < dixiebassline> videos
15:26 < dixiebassline> :P
15:26 < rigel> kanzure: i think you're overestimating
15:26 < dixiebassline> you need to get out more
15:27 < rigel> 125/hr is 250k/yr
15:27 < rigel> you might get that from being a large project director
15:27 < yashgaroth> he's not
15:27 < rigel> or a c_o
15:27 <@kanzure> rigel: sometimes people can't get constant work at $125/hr, so it doesn't end up being $250k/year constantly
15:27 <@kanzure> but, right, you got the idae
15:27 <@kanzure> *idea
15:28 < rigel> 125/hr for contract work is very different than 125/hr for a position
15:28 <@kanzure> true that.
15:28 < rigel> first off youre a contractor so knock that doen by about 25%
15:28 <@kanzure> what?
15:28 < rigel> taxes?
15:29 <@kanzure> knock what down
15:29 <@kanzure> anyway, my point is,
15:29 <@kanzure> if labor is so artificially cheap, it should be possible to acquire some cheap but highly skilled labor for nefarious activity
15:30 < rigel> there is a nefarity premium
15:30 <@kanzure> hrmm
15:30 < rigel> because of associated risk
15:30 <@kanzure> of being fun?
15:30 < rigel> of being nefarious
15:30 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: what did you estimate the "shenanigan risk" of SENS was for you?
15:31 < yashgaroth> idk, "scientist at skull island" would be a strong resume booster
15:31 < ParahSailin> shenanigan risk?
15:31 < rigel> what is SENS
15:31 <@kanzure> rigel: a 501c3 that does some longevity-related research
15:31 <@kanzure> ParahSailin was one of their biologists
15:31 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Leaving"]
15:31 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:32 < rigel> oh, i saw aubrey de gray at tedmed.
15:32 < rigel> what a yutz
15:32 <@kanzure> aubrey is pretty fun
15:32 < rigel> i am dismissive of his ideas
15:32 < ParahSailin> hes almost impossible to understand talking
15:32 < rigel> i didnt interact with him
15:32 <@kanzure> he's very riendly
15:32 <@kanzure> *friendly
15:32 < ParahSailin> especially when he gets many beers into him
15:32 < rigel> i just saw the beard and was like "i know who that crackpot is!"
15:32 <@kanzure> his ideas are a bit outdated, but i'm ok with him promoting them
15:32 < ParahSailin> and he always gets many beers in before lunch time
15:33 < yashgaroth> as crackpots go, he's not bad
15:33 < rigel> oh hey
15:33 < rigel> check this
15:33 <@kanzure> rigel: so, do you think that whole stem cell niche renewal is bogus,or what's your objection?
15:34 < rigel> i think to a large extent, "stem cells" are to the current state of the art what "genetic diseases" were in 1997
15:34 <@kanzure> well i was 7 in 1997, so that doesn't help me
15:34 < rigel> http://www.tedmed.com/videos-info?name=Virginia_Breen_and_Elizabeth_Bonker_at_TEDMED_2012&q=updated&year=all&sid=181&vid=244
15:35 < rigel> before the human genome was sequenced, EVERYTHING was a "possibly genetic in origin" disease
15:35 < rigel> heritability, etc
15:35 < rigel> because that was the "we're stumped" category
15:35 <@kanzure> ok, so the idea of replacing bone marrow is "wrong" because..?
15:35 < rigel> "oh yeah, the human genome will be sequenced and we'll solve ALL THESE PROBLEMS
15:35 <@kanzure> i mean, maybe you're objecting to something else, like "lysosomes aren't real"
15:36 <@kanzure> erm, *making an objection like "lysosomes aren't eral"
15:36 <@kanzure> *real
15:36 < rigel> im not as familiar with his theories because i never found them credible in the first place
15:36 < rigel> because the accumulation of epigenetic insults is kind of a big deal
15:36 < rigel> whether your chromatin is open of closed for a particular gene, and what determines that, is a big deal
15:37 < rigel> you can mung with the stem markets a bit
15:37 <@kanzure> ok, so you're objection to SENS is that "they have sucky marketing" ?
15:37 < rigel> but dolly died
15:37 < rigel> s/markets/markers/
15:38 <@kanzure> here are some old papers from aubrey
15:38 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/Aubrey/
15:38 < rigel> im just saying it's a hell of a lot more complex than we have any idea about right now. interactions with the mitochondria, epigenetic changes at the dna or chromatin level, microRNAs, all of these are big fucking deals
15:38 <@kanzure> yep
15:38 < yashgaroth> by 'insults' do you mean cpg methylation or just general mutations? or both
15:39 < rigel> i like investigating that stuff, and i find that basing assertions about the trasformative power of technologies that arent even mature yet is kinda dumb
15:39 < rigel> yashgaroth: we dont even know what the error rate for duplication of CpG markers is
15:39 < rigel> we have no fucking idea
15:39 < yashgaroth> indeed
15:40 < rigel> and methylated cytosine also is preferentially turned into thymine, iirc
15:40 < rigel> during duplication
15:40 < yashgaroth> yep
15:40 < rigel> so that can drive mutation
15:40 <@kanzure> rigel: he's not asserting trasnformative power of technologies, he has a research org doing experiments
15:40 <@kanzure> *transformative :(
15:40 < rigel> well everything i saw was grandiose claims
15:41 < rigel> and honestly, we dont need to live longer
15:41  * yashgaroth gasps
15:41 <@kanzure> says who
15:41 < rigel> go visit a skilled nursing facility
15:41 < rigel> go visit a hospice
15:41 < Jora> I think the idea is to stay young
15:42 < rigel> the longer you live, the more environmental insults you accumulate, fullstop
15:43 < rigel> i mean, i am strongly social-justice oriented, so i just find this idea that oh, stay young, live longer, to be really not compelling when half a billion people are at risk for malaria, and we still havent eradicated polio, etc
15:43 < rigel> im fine with dying
15:43 <@kanzure> ok that assumes that society can only be focused on a top-down guaranteed set of problems
15:43 <@kanzure> this sounds like bullshit to me.
15:43 < rigel> i dont see where you get there from what i said
15:44 <@kanzure> "not compelling when half a billion people are [other big problems here]"
15:44 < rigel> part of the problem with e.g. malaria is that the top-down institutions arent doing it, not enough anyway
15:44 <@kanzure> it's like the same people saying "elon musk shouldn't go to mars, because i'm starving to death"
15:44 <@kanzure> yes, well, most of those institutions suck, it's true
15:45 < rigel> oh, i'm not saying i want to prevent him from doing whatever white people thing hes doing
15:45 <@kanzure> "white people thing"? are you racist?
15:45 <@kanzure> what if he was black?
15:45 < rigel> just that i dont find it compelling, and have some serious suspicions about its scientific foundations
15:45 <@kanzure> rocketry?
15:45 <@kanzure> rocketry works man
15:45 < rigel> i thought we were still talking life extension here
15:45 < rigel> sens etc
15:46 <@kanzure> ah, i mentioned "elon musk" a few messages ago.
15:48 -!- azonenberg [~azonenber@2001:470:888b:2:206:70ff:fe01:46] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:48 < yashgaroth> to be fair, spaceflight, seasteading and life extension is 3/3 for "rich asshole" projects
15:49 < rigel> yashgaroth++
15:49 -!- OldCoder [~OldCoder@c-69-181-140-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:49 < yashgaroth> not that I don't necessarily support them, but it does look kinda bad to the lay public
15:50 < ParahSailin> elon musk shouldnt get my tax money
15:50 < ParahSailin> for his ev's or his spaceships
15:51 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: ah so you prefer he gets your bank account balance (via paypal)
15:51 <@kanzure> :P
15:51 < ParahSailin> the paypal mafia all divested from paypal
15:51 <@kanzure> (subtext: paypal is notorious for freezing everyone's accounts and stealing money)
15:51 -!- chris_99 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:51 < ParahSailin> thiel et al didnt get along with ebay
15:51 < yashgaroth> I still think there's promise in life extension research, if you consider the (theoretical) low basement cost of biology, and 90 year olds fathering healthy kids
15:52 < strangewarp> Social justice and transhumanism are only at odds until there exists sufficient transhumanism to provide social justice, and yeah, that kinda sucks
15:52 <@kanzure> yashgaroth: i've heard of a 70-something year-old father, haven't seen a 90-year-old father
15:52 < rigel> strangewarp: sounds like a reformulation of rawls
15:52 <@kanzure> yashgaroth: elaborate?
15:52 < rigel> who was a turd
15:53 <@kanzure> strangewarp: sounds wrong to me. you could just make open source tech in the first place. screw all the 'social justice' bullshitting.
15:53 < yashgaroth> some guy in the 1930s was 90-something, I recall
15:53 < rigel> open source itself is not a panacea
15:53 < rigel> there is a supply chain, and access to information is only one link
15:53 <@kanzure> rigel: having the plans to make your drugs is way better than having to pay $20,000/dose for your rare blood disease
15:54 <@kanzure> to a large extent, the supply chain can be replicated, although it's a lot of work :)
15:54 <@kanzure> yashgaroth: bah, the 30s
15:54 < yashgaroth> the question is, whether the chance of a utopia is worth the risk of a horrible oligarchic dystopia
15:54 <@kanzure> utopia? what
15:54 < rigel> if you live in a hut, with no refrigeration or manufacturing capacity, who gives a shit wiether its patented or not patented, it's still a fucking fairytale
15:54 < yashgaroth> "utopia"
15:54 <@kanzure> rigel: or you can build a refrigerator
15:54 < ParahSailin> patents are slavery
15:55 <@kanzure> rigel: people aren't as helpless as you might think
15:55 <@kanzure> (and if they don't want to take care of themselves, that's another story)
15:55 < rigel> which people? who do i think is helpless?
15:55 <@kanzure> the one where a "fridge" is a "fairytale"
15:56 <@kanzure> you lived homeless for years man, why didn't you build one
15:56 <@kanzure> like even just an ice chest that is insulated can keep things cool
15:56 < rigel> because i lived in an urban center, and i was not diabetic
15:56 <@kanzure> ice is dirt cheap (or you can make your own)
15:56 < rigel> where do you get ice in sub saharan africa
15:56 <@kanzure> are you trolling me
15:56 < rigel> am i?
15:57 < rigel> why do people on the internets always accuse me of trolling just when i feel like i am making the most sense
15:58 <@kanzure> you know how to freeze water, right?
15:58 <@kanzure> and you know that this makes ice, right?
15:58 < rigel> and you do this how in a mud hut in sub saharan africa
15:58 < moriarty> hand-cranked refrigerator
15:59 -!- Thorbinator [~Thorbinat@c-67-166-146-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:59 < moriarty> not sure how difficult that is to fathom
15:59 < moriarty> ;)
15:59 < rigel> hand-cranked refrigerator?
15:59 < rigel> im not sure what you mean by that
15:59 < moriarty> mechanical generation for power
15:59 < yashgaroth> he's joking, I hope
15:59 < rigel> how many watts does an electric fridge require
16:00 < ParahSailin> didnt dean kamen make a simple refrigeration unit that you could power with a wood fire
16:00 < rigel> the dynamo on my bicycle puts out 3w
16:00 < moriarty> or you could use a pot-in-pot refrigerator
16:00 < rigel> yes, evaporative cooling
16:00 < moriarty> yeah
16:00 < rigel> there are limits to that, i dont think you can make ice unless ambient temp/humidity is right
16:01 <@kanzure> i suppose yuo don't need ice for a fridge
16:01 <@kanzure> ice was an artificial addition to that scenario
16:01 < rigel> how do you know that your drugs are cool enough then, and havent been inactivated?
16:02 < rigel> are you mining and smelting bimetal thermometers yourself?
16:02 < rigel> how are you manufacturing drugs?
16:02 < rigel> where are you getting your raw materials
16:02 < rigel> we in the cities have access to this stuff
16:02 < rigel> the rest of the world largely does not
16:02 <@kanzure> these are a lot of questions
16:03 <@kanzure> the fact that i can't type the answers quickly doesn't mean that they are impossible tasks
16:03 <@kanzure> it just means that your mind is racing
16:03 < rigel> theyre not impossible
16:03 <@kanzure> you're right that it's a lot of work. living is tough!
16:03 < rigel> most of them have relatively simple solutions
16:03 < rigel> but that requires resources and time
16:04 <@kanzure> sure.
16:04 <@kanzure> if you don't have the resources, you find them.
16:04 < rigel> making everything open source is not going to solve that problem of allocation of resources, is my central point
16:04 < rigel> it helps, sure
16:04 <@kanzure> allocation of resources isn't the same problem
16:04 <@kanzure> i don't think "I don't have a fridge" has anything to do about allocation
16:05 <@kanzure> it's largely "I haven't built a fridge yet"
16:05 -!- rigel [~rigel@c-76-105-237-98.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left ##hplusroadmap []
16:05 <@kanzure> alright then
16:06 < ParahSailin> he was pretty combative
16:06 <@kanzure> if you live in the desert, you can't expect elon musk to air drop you a fridge
16:06 <@kanzure> you gotta be a bit more creative than that :P
16:07 < strangewarp> Hngh, a person is trying to convince me that if it were possible to build a Strong AI, then the internet would already be intelligent
16:07 < strangewarp> And they are trying to use it to disprove Strong AI.. ow
16:08 <@kanzure> whether or not a strong ai exists has nothing to do with whether or not "the internet is already intelligent"
16:08 < ParahSailin> is a human a strong ai?
16:08 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: yes
16:08 < ParahSailin> done
16:08 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: it's just, we really suck at the whole "recursive self-improvement" thing at the moment
16:09 <@kanzure> presumably software-based brains would operate faster and not take as long as we've been taking
16:10 < ParahSailin> we dont know how to use these brains yet
16:12 -!- NonFish[ [~lurking@adsl-99-111-153-229.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:13 <@kanzure> eh?
16:15 -!- NonFish_ [lurking@adsl-99-111-153-229.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
16:15 -!- NonFish[ is now known as NonFish_
16:16 -!- Jora [~Jora@unaffiliated/jora] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:36 <@kanzure> yashgaroth: oh also we need to yell out "ENHANCE!" whenever someone shows photos in their slides
16:37 -!- drazak [~ahdfadkfa@drazak.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
16:37 < yashgaroth> you're gonna end up with everyone heckling during your presentation
16:38 -!- drazak [~ahdfadkfa@drazak.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:43 -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:44 < yashgaroth> it is a more low-watchlist approach though, which might be for the best
16:48 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:50 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@adsl-69-151-150-108.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:50 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@adsl-69-151-150-108.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Changing host]
16:50 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:56 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:58 < strangewarp> Hmmm
17:04 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:46 -!- Gevallen_Engel [~Gevallen_@c-75-73-208-250.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:48 <@kanzure> hi Gevallen_Engel
17:48 < Gevallen_Engel> Hiya
17:49 <@kanzure> i think you were the one asking about automated pipettes?
17:50 < Gevallen_Engel> Ended up with an odd piece of equipment, I'm trying to figure out if its still current enough to be of some interest to a lab or more suited to be parted out :P
17:50 < Gevallen_Engel> I was, still havent gotten very far with that yet, waiting on a controller card to arrive
17:51 < Gevallen_Engel> http://imgur.com/a/1q0n5#noI02
17:51 <@kanzure> oh right, i remember now
17:51 <@kanzure> what controller have you purchased/why?
17:52 < Gevallen_Engel> I'll have to look it up, its a chinese controller that I guess doesnt have the best documentation but does work with mach and still supports 4 axis
17:54 < Gevallen_Engel> http://tinyurl.com/84o4lnq
17:54 < Gevallen_Engel> I'm sure I'll have tons of fun figuring that out :|
17:57 <@kanzure> ah ok. why are you using mach instead of e.g. linuxcnc?
17:58 < Gevallen_Engel> Ive no personal preference for either really :) Open to ideas
17:58 < Gevallen_Engel> I'd have to tackle learning to use linux first for linuxcnc I'd assume :P
18:05 <@kanzure> it has pointy clicky interfaces i thought
18:05 < Gevallen_Engel> http://i.imgur.com/igH3d.jpg got this too but it doesnt seem robust enough to to much with :\
18:16 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:11 -!- srangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:13 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
19:13 -!- srangewarp is now known as strangewarp
19:14 -!- Gevallen_Engel [~Gevallen_@c-75-73-208-250.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:36 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-76-105-164-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: later]
19:36 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-76-105-164-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:37 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-24-63-135-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving]
19:47 <@kanzure> hrmm
19:56 -!- lichen|2 [~lichen@c-76-105-164-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:58 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-76-105-164-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20:01 < JayDugger> Heh...reviewing your DF strategies in the light of the O'Reilly book?
20:01 < JayDugger> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920022565.do
20:02 -!- lichen|2 is now known as lichen
20:03 -!- docl [~luke@unaffiliated/docl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:17 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-79-122.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20:59 -!- moriarty [~art@unaffiliated/moriarty] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
21:18 < ParahSailin> http://vimeo.com/29720808
21:19 <@kanzure> what is it?
21:21 < ParahSailin> its a brainfuck
21:23 < joshcryer> what are they saying
21:26 -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: jmil]
22:37 -!- neuro-sys [~neuro@unaffiliated/neurosys/x-283974] has quit [Quit: |]
23:25 -!- _F7_ [~forrestfl@c-98-201-2-186.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
--- Log closed Mon Jun 04 00:00:30 2012