--- Log opened Wed Aug 08 00:00:13 2012
--- Day changed Wed Aug 08 2012
00:00 < yashgaroth> sure, but you could do it on weekends or something
00:00 < tashou> mmmm...
00:00 < tashou> Ok
00:00 < tashou> step by step,
00:00 < tashou> let me try to find out some ideas
00:01 < tashou> to yashgaroth: I have to meet the professor now
00:01 < tashou> see you latter
00:01 < tashou> :)
00:01 < yashgaroth> good luck!
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01:17 < nsh> that was nice (tashou)
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01:26 < nmz787> kanzure: how do we scrape things like this? I can't skip through the video without being signed in, and the trial period seems to be ending on sept 1 http://www.jove.com/video/2090/generation-of-transgenic-c-elegans-by-biolistic-transformation
01:29 < nsh> what is it?
01:31  * nsh wonders if he has institutional access 
01:34 < nmz787> you can watch it
01:34 < nmz787> no access needed
01:34 < nmz787> but i cant skip to minute 8
01:34 < nmz787> i have to watch the whole thing
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02:00 < nmz787> kanzure: where would the best place to host a repo of partsregisty? throw an interface on that to get new parts in from academic papers, and search/display
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02:01 < nmz787> i.e. off-shore DNAz
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02:52 < nsh> kanzure, i want to play with your pyphantom.js
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03:19 < nsh> pyphantomjs isn't found by pip
03:30 < nsh> gnusha paste?
03:40 < nsh> kanzure, http://paste.lisp.org/display/130916 (pyphantomjs br0k)
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06:36 < delinquentme> any thoughts on making a shaker with porous materials?
06:36 < delinquentme> I know spilling things on it would be bad
06:37 < delinquentme> or should I just ensure that everything is sealed?
06:38 < ThomasEgi> sealing never hurts.
06:42 < delinquentme> ThomasEgi, any ideas on what might be a non-reactive sealant that I could brush on?
06:43 < ThomasEgi> brush on?
06:43 < ThomasEgi> what exactly do you plan to shake?
06:44 < ThomasEgi> or.. do you want to shake porous material?
06:44 < delinquentme> yeah like to seal the concrete
06:44 < delinquentme> nahh concrete slabs as ballast
06:45 < ThomasEgi> hm. i would've said simply put it in a sealed container and shake that.
06:45 < ThomasEgi> but that's probably not what you want
06:45 < delinquentme> well id *love* to use the concrete just unsealed
06:45 < delinquentme> but I dont think you make plans to spill what one would be shaking
06:46 < delinquentme> additionally it would be nice to just simply wipe it clean
06:49 < ThomasEgi>  it appears that i am lacking the neccessary information on what exactly you want to shake, and what volume, in order to give useful advice
06:50 < delinquentme> ThomasEgi, actually its less about what to shake ... and more "home improvement" type things
06:51 < delinquentme> " How do I seal concrete with a non-reactive substance? "
06:51 < delinquentme> is really the question
06:51 < delinquentme> ... and what substance to use
06:51 < ThomasEgi> my first guess would be polymers
06:51 < ThomasEgi> or something like epoxyd
06:51 < delinquentme> i was thinking silicon
06:52 < ThomasEgi> that'd also be a possibility. but my guess would be epoxy is easier to get and work with
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07:54 < delinquentme> anyone in here know about patients like me?
07:55 < delinquentme> I'm wondering if they're paying competitive salaries
08:08 < delinquentme> jmil, have you thought about building it out with perf board on the top?
08:09 < delinquentme> I'm wondering about the best ways to affix things to the platform... and perfboard and wire harnesses seem like a really cheap option
08:13 < delinquentme> http://www.labdepotinc.com/Product_Details~id~648~pid~60383.aspx?gclid=CIW_uemo2LECFcTd4AodwSkAEQ
08:13 < delinquentme> wayy to costsly
08:13 < delinquentme> costly*8
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09:39 < jmil> delinquentme: dunno. we just ordered a planar orbital shaker, found one for $650 so I guess we will just be using that one. It would probably be more than $650 to do the correct amount of R&D on this size of scale-up, so we pulled the trigger when we saw one this cheap (more than 4x less expensive than what we had previously seen).
09:39 < delinquentme> thats so nuts
09:39 < delinquentme> how long did it take to get that approved?
09:41 < kanzure> nmz787: the video is here:
09:41 < kanzure> nmz787: http://www.jove.com/video/2090/generation-of-transgenic-c-elegans-by-biolistic-transformation
09:41 < kanzure> oops
09:41 < kanzure> http://ecsource.jove.com/CDNSource/2090_Fisher_081910_F2_Web.mov
09:42 < kanzure> nmz787: we can host a copy of partsregistry on gnusha, sure..
09:42 < kanzure> nsh: the original author of pyphantomjs removed it from pip because he was angry
09:43 < kanzure> nsh: perhaps you are not using the right version of pyqt4?
09:43  * nsh checks
09:43 < nsh> heh, why was he angry?
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09:44 < nsh> hey yashgaroth
09:44 < yashgaroth> hello
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09:48 < kanzure> nsh: because he had life things happen
09:49 < kanzure> nsh: he deleted it from pypi and deleted the pyphantomjs repository
09:49 < kanzure> i had to do lots and lots of recon work to find pyphantomjs.git
09:49 < nsh> ok
09:50 < kanzure> hrm, so, someone posted a ticket about pypi being broked
09:51 < nsh> it was sbp
09:51 < nsh> i've explained
09:51 < kanzure> sbp?
09:51 < nsh> from #swhack
09:51 < nsh> wrote phenny
09:51 < nsh> the python irc bot
09:52 < kanzure> nsh: there's also #phantomjs
09:53 < kanzure> realistically i don't have time to support both nanoengineer and pyphantomjs but i sort of need pyphantomjs for my scraping adventures
09:55 < nsh> mmm
10:01 < kanzure> oh i should convert the nanoengineer mediawiki before i forget about media2iki
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10:13 < delinquentme> jmil, that was to you =]
10:13 < delinquentme> kanzure, nsh yashgaroth what do you guys know about the purchasing cycle of labs
10:14 < delinquentme> and is it less strict when dealing with private companies?
10:14 < yashgaroth> kind of a broad question
10:14 < delinquentme> like say I called up some local chemistry company
10:14 < delinquentme> like 50 employees
10:14 < delinquentme> how soon could they place an order ( if i had something they wanted )
10:14 < delinquentme> yashgaroth, well thats bc i know little about it...
10:14 < delinquentme> =]
10:14  * nsh never dealt with procurement
10:15 < yashgaroth> uh 5 minutes to 3 months?
10:15 < yashgaroth> depends what it costs, how bad they need it, did they solicit it or are you cold-calling
10:15 < yashgaroth> will you include a free ipad with purchase etc
10:25 < delinquentme> lol
10:25 < delinquentme> oh wait.
10:25 < delinquentme> thats not a funny.
10:26 < delinquentme> but not everywhere is subject to 2 month long purchase times in which they *only* buy stuff during that time?
10:28 < yashgaroth> if it's to augment capacity or is just an improvement on an existing piece of equipment, you might need to wait a quarter
10:29 < yashgaroth> and if it's reagents they need, they won't really wait since they have to order those
10:30 < yashgaroth> the 2-month window is probably more likely in academic labs but I have little experience there
10:31 < yashgaroth> then again if you're burning VC money there's no reason to wait...if you've got a small/steady income then there's more quarterly waiting
10:32 < jmil> delinquentme: whut?
10:32 < jmil> delinquentme: what was to me?
10:32 < delinquentme> How long did the purchase take to get approved
10:32 < delinquentme> questionmark.
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11:00 < jmil> delinquentme: oh it was about 2 weeks to get approved. sorry, i'm around the lab. u gotta ping me each time with specific questions if you want a response :D
11:00 < kanzure> http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/8/3177438/cyborg-america-biohackers-grinders-body-hackers
11:01 < kanzure> ughh magnetic implant wankers strike again
11:01 < kanzure> "There is another strain of
11:01 < kanzure> biohacking which focuses on the possibilities for DIY genetics, but their
11:01 < kanzure> work is far more theoretical than the hands on experiments performed by
11:01 < kanzure> grinders."
11:01 < kanzure> what the fuck? biocurious/genspace is real, you know..
11:02 < delinquentme> noted!
11:16 < yashgaroth> "but I’m an idiot working in the name of progress" eurgh
11:21 < kanzure> that seems somewhat immature
11:22 < yashgaroth> well it is lepht :V
11:27 < nsh> being concerned with how journalists understand things can be an early symptom of srs bsns
11:42 < yashgaroth> well props to the journalist for getting an implant I guess
11:42 < kanzure> that's like a reporter reporting on prostitution and becoming a prostitute to make it "more authentic"
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12:25 < eudoxia> well at least the comments don't seem too negative
12:26 < eudoxia> i guess hurr durr fucking magnets is better than hurr dur religious millenialist nerd religion
12:28 < nsh> kanzure, upgrading half my system to get the right python-qt4
12:28 < nsh> hopefully not everything breaks
12:28 < nsh> but fuck debian stable repos anyway
12:28 < nsh> YOLO
12:32 < ThomasEgi> YOLO but you still gotta backup your data!
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12:33 < nsh> true
12:33 < kanzure> nsh: you could consider using a chroot or virtualenv, btw..
12:34  * nsh nods
12:34 < nsh> this is a very temporary install anyway
12:34 < eudoxia> i run nanoengineer in a WinXP VM because I'm a lazy bum
12:34 < nsh> basically until i can be bothered to take apart my own laptop and replace a fuse
12:37 < nsh> should have checked df before starting upgrade
12:37 < nsh> lol
12:37 < nsh> think i may have scraped through
12:44 < kanzure> eudoxia: he's talking about pyphantomjs not nanoengineer
12:44 < eudoxia> oh
12:44 < eudoxia> i saw python-qt4 and instantly thought nanoengineer :)
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14:20 < AdrienG> wat r u engineering
14:22 < nmz787> ?
14:29 < AdrienG> in nanoengineer
14:39 < kanzure> ?
14:43 < yashgaroth> molecules
14:46 < nmz787> awesomeness
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15:17 < Juul> hi guys
15:17 < Juul> finally back in the u.s.
15:43 < kanzure> Juul: how was the trip?
15:45 < nmz787> kanzure: i think my local copy of nanoengineer has some code weirdness that i screwed up, how do i pull the last gitted version from github?
15:46 < nmz787> i have a master and a ubuntu-fixes branch on my github
15:46 < kanzure> type "git status" to figure out which branch you are presently on
15:47 < nmz787> on ubuntu-fizes
15:47 < kanzure> if you are on ubuntufixes, then type "git checkout master" which should not have that code weirdness
15:47 < nmz787> fixes
15:47 < nmz787> so that will overwrite my current files with the last uploaded ubuntu-fixes?
15:47 < kanzure> once you are on master, you can pull from me (i think i am "origin" for you, but you can check with git remote -vvv)
15:48 < kanzure> uhm, well, no
15:48 < nmz787> (i want to get the last rev of ubuntu fizes
15:48 < kanzure> oh
15:48 < nmz787> i think i did some weird stuff after my last commit
15:48 < kanzure> and you're saying that your current ubuntu-fixes branch has some new stuff that you don't want?
15:48 < kanzure> ok so if you want to throw away your changes, type git reset --hard
15:48 < nmz787> right
15:49 < nmz787> that's it?
15:49 < kanzure> you can also use "git status" before you do that to see which files have been changed. after git reset --hard then "git status" should show no files changed.
15:50 < kanzure> "I was just visting ATX last night, john mentioned that you previously tried to import a laser cutter from china, but it was assessed at a value much higher than what you bought it for, and therefore taxes on it were higher than the actual cost of the equipment."
15:50 < nmz787> hmm it appears i hadn't changed anything since my last commit
15:51 < kanzure> nmz787: and you're still on the right branch?
15:51 < nmz787> yeah
15:51 < kanzure> you can also type "git branch -a" to see other branches and iirc it might identify which one you are presently on
15:52 < nmz787> hm, last i remember my fixes would at least allow nanoengineer's GUI to start and appear
15:52 < nmz787> maybe some lib changed on me
15:53 < nmz787> i did an apt-get update since i last messed with this code, i can't remember if the update went through or not
15:54 < kanzure> this is why i run nanoengineer in a chroot
15:55 < kanzure> nmz787: did you try the chroot before and not like it?
15:55 < kanzure> i mean, if you can get nanoengineer to work on a modern system without that, then more power to you..
16:00 < kanzure> nmz787: https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/#installing
16:01 < kanzure> and then inside you can do "apt-get dist-upgrade" and then see what broked
16:02 < kanzure> nmz787: did you get the link i gave earlier for that jove video? http://ecsource.jove.com/CDNSource/2090_Fisher_081910_F2_Web.mov
16:22 < nmz787> yeah
16:22 < nmz787> no i'm not doing the chroot thing
16:23 < nmz787> does anyone in here work at Intel, or used to in the past?
16:23 < jrayhawk> I think bkero does
16:24 < jrayhawk> jblake also knows a lot about intel corporate
16:24 < nmz787> faceintel.com doesn't paint a pretty picture
16:24 < bkero> what now?
16:24 < bkero> I worked there back in 2008
16:24 < bkero> I have friends that work there now
16:30 < jrayhawk> yes, intel is structured to run on weird corporate processes that are generally hostile to sane, self-motivated people
16:30 < jrayhawk> by and large these processes are not disastrously awful *unless* you're in a software group
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16:32 < nmz787> bkero: my gf is getting an offer (this week i think) from jones farm campus... she'll be a RCG (recent college graduate) in some security area there
16:32 < nmz787> (if she takes it)
16:33 < nmz787> product security
16:33 < nmz787> but yeah she's a pretty sane person IMO, so will she hate herself after a few months?
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16:43 < kanzure> cutbert: hi
16:43 < kanzure> the_merlin: hello
16:43 < cutbert> Oh hello
16:47 < Juul> kanzure, it was pretty great
16:48 < Juul> well, except for the bureaucracy I had to deal with and having to buy a new ticket back because my visa didn't arrive when promised
16:55 < bkero> nmz787: She'll feel like they're overpaying her, and that she doesn't want to rock the boat
16:55 < bkero> and that her efforts are fruitless
16:56 < kanzure> bkero your jobs sound miserable
16:56 < bkero> kanzure: That's Intel, not my job.
16:59 < Juul> kanzure, how has your summer been?
16:59 < bkero> I'm heading down to Texas in a few weeks.  San Antonio.
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16:59 < kanzure> pretty nice.. just lots of scraping
16:59  * kanzure goes to find food
17:04 < the_merlin> hi kanzure!
17:05 < the_merlin> whoa, you guys' logs are hardcore
17:10 < yashgaroth> loggin' 24/7 that's how we do
17:10 < the_merlin> haha
17:10 < the_merlin> public, well-categorized loggin'! that's what I'm talkin about
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17:20 < kanzure> the_merlin: what brings you here?
17:20 < kanzure> bkero: well, maybe stop by austin for a few hours
17:22 < n_bentha> kanzure, are we any closer to living forever?
17:23 < kanzure> n_bentha: why are you asking /me/ that
17:23 < n_bentha> because i haven't been on the up and up about humanity plus for the past half-year
17:23 < kanzure> don't associate me with humanityplus
17:24 < kanzure> i regret every second of that
17:24 < n_bentha> 0.o sorry?
17:24 < kanzure> that org isn't participating in research or hardware projects
17:24 < n_bentha> what do you associate with now then?
17:24 < n_bentha> i was going to purse a line of questioning about why the human race should live longer lifespans
17:24 < bkero> kanzure: I'm only in town for a few hours :(  Austin might be a bit far away
17:25 < kanzure> n_bentha: do you mean transhumanism in general, or the non-profit organization known as "humanity plus"
17:25 < n_bentha> transhumanism in general
17:25 < kanzure> ok. i don't think it's important to look at the median lifespan of the human race as a whole, that seems overly broad..
17:26 < kanzure> i mean, it's certainly sad that people die, but if they don't want to live that's another story
17:26 < brownies> why do you regret every second of it?
17:26 < brownies> didn't they give you some sweet-sounding title?
17:26 < kanzure> brownies: it was just a terribly ineffective organization
17:27 < kanzure> their core beliefs weren't actually shared among the board members
17:27 < kanzure> and nothing was in sync
17:29 < n_bentha> but is there something to be gained from living longer? or is it just about avoiding death because it's scary and makes people sad?
17:29 < kanzure> ugh
17:29 < kanzure> why do i have to convince you
17:30 < yashgaroth> n_bentha, take out "longer" from that statement and read it again
17:31 < n_bentha> yashgaroth! :D
17:31 < kanzure> n_bentha: why are you scared of death?
17:31 < n_bentha> i'm not. i was just saying that because it seems to be the general opinion of many 'mericans
17:31 < kanzure> if that was true, then longevity research would have much more funding.
17:32 < kanzure> i don't think that "being scared of death" is a necessary prereq to wanting to decide how long you live
17:34 < n_bentha> i guess there are a bunch of people who don't really contribute to society
17:34 < kanzure> that is a separate issue
17:34 < n_bentha> and having them live 10000 years is kind of pointless?
17:34 < kanzure> it's pointless to you
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17:34 < kanzure> i suggest you make a society where that isn't true
17:34 < the_merlin> kanzure: a friend was asking about biohacking channels, and I like cyborgs
17:35 < the_merlin> rather, I want to build them :)
17:35 < kanzure> but, if you try to murder people out there in the universe just for the hell fo it because they are useless to you, i bet people will stop you
17:35 < brownies> does this channel get a lot of nuts?
17:35 < kanzure> brownies: yes :(
17:35 < kanzure> brownies: lots of fucking redditors
17:35 < brownies> ahh, reddit
17:35 < kanzure> "the steaming asshole of the internet.. at least before you get to 420chan"
17:36 < the_merlin> man, I want to live a long time because there is SO MUCH TO DO
17:36 < the_merlin> and so much to explore
17:36 < brownies> they're like the seagulls of the internet... hilarious from a distance and in small doses, but you can't leave too many bread crumbs out for them, or they'll swarm you
17:36 < n_bentha> lol i didn't say anything about murdering people! i was just saying if we put our resoursces to keep some people alive...then it'd be better to select those that contribute and are good people--not the criminally insane
17:36 < brownies> just came up with that analogy, but i think it has potential
17:36 < the_merlin> hahaha reddit, the friend that has all the awesome new toys but slaps you in the face at random intervals
17:36 < kanzure> n_bentha: well, if you want to make a society where that's true, go for it
17:36 < kanzure> i might even join such a society
17:36 < kanzure> but i wouldn't want you to become the holy Decider
17:36 < kanzure> for all people everywhere
17:36 < n_bentha> LOL
17:36 < the_merlin> n_bentha: wouldn't that same argument apply to all of medicine?
17:37 < the_merlin> seems like it's up to society to apply restrictions
17:37 < the_merlin> most of us are probably in a life situation where we can self-select to be part of the test group, rather than picking world leaders to experiment on
17:38 < n_bentha> i was just thinking of a hypothetical case of limited resources where you COULD only keep one or two people alive forever...tons of people would want to live forever....
17:39 < kanzure> n_bentha: have you read neverness? it discusses some of the issues of exponential replication
17:39 < yashgaroth> that's kind of an unrealistic scenario, it's not like sacrificing thousands of psykers to keep the emperor going
17:39 < n_bentha> lmao
17:39 < kanzure> i don't see why you are concerned about living forever, and not exponential replication and renewing populations
17:39 < the_merlin> n_bentha: that seems like it would push more scientists to develop alternatives that weren't limited
17:39 < kanzure> like, two people? who cares.. you should be more concerned about 10^10^10^10 births/year
17:41 < the_merlin> aargh, I'd hope that infertility would at least set in at some point
17:41 < the_merlin> or the people self-selecting to live forever would conform to the trend of higher education --> less babymaking
17:41 < kanzure> why is babymaking bad
17:42 < kanzure> for all you know, there's a planet a bajillion lightyears away that also has overpopulation - but you don't seem to be getting anxious about that one
17:42 < brownies> soon, we'll be able to put people on the moon
17:42 < brownies> and Mars
17:42 < brownies> so that should clear up some space
17:42 < kanzure> brownies: i think habitats are probably more economical?
17:42 < kanzure> i mean, good job geniuses.. leave one gravity well for another one, fuck
17:43 < brownies> stop ruining my fantasy wonderland of dyson spheres and interplanetary BART shuttles
17:43 < n_bentha> i want to make babies...
17:44 < n_bentha> raising kids is a fufilling experience.
17:44 < kanzure> ok?
17:44 < yashgaroth> get a cat or something
17:44 < kanzure> n_bentha: one trillion lightyears from here, there's 1 person who has lived for 10,000 years doing nothing. does this make you mad?
17:45 < the_merlin> kanzure: well, naturally I'm not getting anxious about the hypothetical overpopulation of a planet I don't live on, but largely I just don't like babies :)
17:46 < kanzure> ah very well then
17:46 < the_merlin> once we get onto other planets, we can just set up a nursery on Saturn and banish them or whatever :)
17:46 < kanzure> sounds good to me
17:46 < the_merlin> or, y'know, a solid planet -_-'
17:47 < the_merlin> man when I was a kid, I hated the idea of death. I prayed that, instead of dying, people would just continue to grow larger and larger
17:47 < brownies> probably have to bring a couple space heaters for Saturn
17:47 < brownies> hehe... space heater...
17:47 < kanzure> the_merlin: sounds impractical
17:47 < the_merlin> and then they would get too big for the world, and God would come and take them away in a spaceship to another planet for larger people
17:47 < the_merlin> and so on
17:47 < kanzure> the_merlin: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/ welcome to the fold
17:48 < the_merlin> I think Mary Poppins made me think this??
17:49 < the_merlin> kanzure: whoa whoa whoa, I'm delighted by biology but I can just barely follow Aubrey de Grey :)
17:49 < kanzure> aubrey ain't got shit on this
17:49 < the_merlin> do you know which of those would be most newbie-friendly?
17:49 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/aubrey.jpg
17:49 < n_bentha> .kanzure: no it doesn't make me mad that they did nothing
17:49 < kanzure> well, i would say the text files
17:50 < kanzure> n_bentha: you said earlier that you were upset by people living and not doing things that you like?
17:50 < kanzure> so why is that different? ;)
17:50 < the_merlin> I'm largely just a cyborg fangirl. I'm building robots and preparing for the day when I have the right resources to make vanity prosthetics
17:50 < n_bentha> i didn't say that
17:50 < kanzure> the_merlin: ah, well, we are biased against fans in here.
17:50 < kanzure> but you're certainly welcome to hang around i guess
17:51 < kanzure> i mean, if you actually do work on robots, that is
17:51 < n_bentha> lol, where's that guy that wanted to grow wings and fly?
17:52 < kanzure> i think we sacked him
17:52 < n_bentha> lol, he was so funny
17:52 < n_bentha> grade A troll, that one
17:52 < the_merlin> dude yeah, by "fangirl" I mean I love them, but also I'm working to make them
17:53 < the_merlin> I build robots with a couple of groups already :D
17:53 < the_merlin> and I'm learning the programming to take it further
17:53 < kanzure> i see
17:53 < the_merlin> I plan to build and install wearable augmentations for myself
17:53 < kanzure> the_merlin: what do you think of something like this? http://fennetic.net/irc/cyberfenn/hplus_proposal/
17:54 < n_bentha> that's cool, merlin :) would like to see some of your stuff
17:54 < the_merlin> I'm a lot more comfortable strapping on machines I built, rather than trusting myself to alter my inner chemical balances or do DIY surgery like fingermagnetguy :/
17:54 < kanzure> fingermagnetguy is annoying
17:55 < the_merlin> I'm not risking gangrene if my shit fails
17:55 < the_merlin> n_bentha: I'm most interested in that last point -- "coping with age-related sensory and memory degradation" -- and also SUPERPOWERZ!!
17:56 < the_merlin> because who doesn't want IR/UV/etc. augmented vision
17:56 < the_merlin> who doesn't want to hear their first date's pulse
17:56 < the_merlin> who doesn't want to be able to track broad data while they're dreaming
17:57 < the_merlin> ...quite a lot of people, probably, but SUPERPOWERZ!!
17:57 < kanzure> i think it's not fair to call these things superpowers, i'd be careful :P
17:57 < kanzure> i mean, augmentations sure do seem like superpowers sometimes
17:57 < kanzure> but a magnet in your finger.. is not a superpower
17:57 < the_merlin> Haha, not fair to whom?
17:57 < kanzure> to me, or people who have to endure the constant onslaught of redditors asking about glowing their cats
17:57 < the_merlin> Oh no, I think there are way cooler things to do. And it's a tongue-in-cheek designation anyway :)
17:57 < the_merlin> Or glowing cats
17:57 < the_merlin> but things that are actually useful powers
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17:58 < n_bentha> oh god, not more cats
17:58 < the_merlin> built-in IR vision would be pretty annoying if you couldn't shut it off
17:58 < the_merlin> you'd get blasted by those security cameras, and TV remotes, and god knows what else
17:58 < kanzure> are you a biologist?
17:59 < the_merlin> nope! Spanish major and robot enthusiast
17:59 < kanzure> i mean, the molecular engineering required to switch proteins in the corneas on/off is pretty difficult
17:59 < kanzure> and the eye is already a rather sophisticated construct
17:59 < the_merlin> my HS bio teacher turned me off of studying it, but I love learning about brains
17:59 < yashgaroth> retinal IR vision is more a problem of noise from your, y'know, body heat
17:59 < the_merlin> yeah, I prefer wearables
17:59 < n_bentha> inject the siRNA, problem solved
18:00 < kanzure> n_bentha: i don't think that's what she means :P
18:00 < AdrienG> http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=25354
18:00 < AdrienG> :<
18:00 < the_merlin> yashgaroth: I guess it depends on how far into the IR spectrum you go... near-IR stuff like you can get from cheap digicams doesn't pick up much thermal emission
18:00 < the_merlin> I guess I'm much closer to working on the "cyb" part, and less on the "org"
18:01 < the_merlin> which is fine
18:01 < n_bentha> the japanese space agency needs to step up on the electrodynamic propulsion for LEO
18:01 < yashgaroth> yeah but near-IR sucks
18:01 < yashgaroth> UV is where it's at yo
18:01 < n_bentha> what would u see w/ uv vision, yashgaroth?
18:01 < n_bentha> other than shit from the sun?
18:02 < yashgaroth> who cares when you can see at night with an invisible UV lamp
18:02 < yashgaroth> also flower patterns
18:03 < n_bentha> tru, tru.
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18:04 < superkuh> You don't need biological alteration to see UV. Just get a cornea replacement made of something UV transparent.
18:05 < yashgaroth> you have an even narrower definition of 'biological alteration' than I
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18:06 < superkuh> http://www.komar.org/faq/colorado-cataract-surgery-crystalens/ultra-violet-color-glow/
18:09 < yashgaroth> maybe once I can fit a couple other mods into the intro-ocular lens
18:19 < the_merlin> n_bentha: here's some relevant stuff I've made
18:20 < the_merlin> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9Gu7UqqKYk
18:20 < the_merlin> (wearable qwerty keyboard; hugely impractical)
18:20 < kanzure> hah
18:21 < the_merlin> http://www.alexglow.com/musical-cyborg-juggling-apparatus/ - wearable juggling/electronic instrument harness thingy; also useless :D
18:21 < the_merlin> I also worked on an actual useful thing: http://www.geekazine.com/video-pod/eyes-demand-helps-blind-people-demo-2012-video
18:21 < kanzure> the_merlin: make me go faster http://www.seanwrona.com/typeracer/profile.php?username=kanzure
18:21 < the_merlin> well, the keyboard would've taken forever to learn, and the main benefit was that it was anti-carpal-tunnel-syndrome
18:22 < joshcryer> Interesting superkuh, my mom had that surgery.
18:22 < the_merlin> encouraged natural hand position, good posture, & all that
18:22 < joshcryer> I should have her tell me what's up.
18:22 < kanzure> the_merlin: i am also interested in keyboards for my feet, because i seem to have maxed out hand-based input
18:22 < the_merlin> dude! that is an awesome UV effect! I want to learn more about tetrachromats and how they see, as well
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18:24 < the_merlin> kanzure: why not get into leapmotion and turn it all into sign language recognition?
18:24 < the_merlin> you could go way faster :D
18:24 < kanzure> i'm not convinced that sign language recognition can happen faster than 12ms
18:24 < the_merlin> AND exercise your arms (everyone who complains about it stressing your muscles is a wuss)
18:24 < the_merlin> AND look like minority report guy, which is what all gestural control interface people jizz over
18:25 < kanzure> or, i'm not convinced about 200 wpm signing, but i'd be happy to be shown wrong
18:25 < the_merlin> fr srs
18:25 < the_merlin> oh, sure... I mainly like sign langauge 'cause it exercises your muscles and teaches you to communicate with a whole new set of people
18:25  * AlonzoTG uses a dvorak layout on a MS natural keyboard.
18:25 < kanzure> the_merlin: people are terrible and you should stop talking to them
18:25 < the_merlin> like, as long as you're learning a new method of input, why not use one that has other benefits?
18:25 < kanzure> well, why learn it if it sucks so much?
18:26 < kanzure> signers should just type instead
18:26 < the_merlin> what do you mean, if it sucks so much? I like the exercise & communication factors
18:26 < the_merlin> it's really cool to look at, way more interesting than typing :)
18:26 < kanzure> um...
18:26 < kanzure> well i'm not seeing any wpm reports but i bet it's <200wpm
18:27 < yashgaroth> I'd like to see you code using interpretive dance
18:27 < kanzure> i wouldn't
18:27 < kanzure> fuck.
18:27 < yashgaroth> that's exactly why I'd like to see it :V
18:28 < the_merlin> well, each person has their own idea of a "better" typing system; I prioritize systems that encourage my arms' health and have side benefits, and you clearly prioritize speed, and someone else might prioritize the amount of noise they can make with a specially-designed keyboard :)
18:28 < kanzure> if you want arm health you should exercise
18:28 < the_merlin> I hate exercise for exercise's sake
18:28 < kanzure> ok then why do you prioritize it
18:28 < the_merlin> I'd rather work it into stuff I already do
18:29 < the_merlin> instead of being all "OK let's exercise now", I can make it just happen on its own
18:29 < kanzure> it doesn't seem to provide any benefit to typing
18:29 < kanzure> or, er, data input
18:29 < the_merlin> with a properly developed system (which I'll work on as soon as I have the Leap unit), it wouldn't harm it either
18:30 < the_merlin> unless you're prioritizing speed, I guess
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18:30 < the_merlin> so if it's a net zero impact, I might as well increase my arm strength while being a desk jockey
18:31 < the_merlin> if you hate yoga ball chair people, start hating now because that's how I keep myself from dying of a computer job
18:31 < the_merlin> that shit is terrible for you, and if you're into longevity, it should be a concern
18:32 < the_merlin> I don't mind looking silly by waving my arms around, if it means I never get carpal tunnel syndrome
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18:35 < yashgaroth> no way am I living forever if I don't look cool doing it
18:35 < the_merlin> hahaha
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18:36 < the_merlin> I'm leaving it to the bio people to fix longevity; since I don't have the expertise or desire to experiment on my own biology, I'm working to make my old age stronger, less painful, and more enjoyable
18:36 < the_merlin> (well, and my young age as well)
18:37 < the_merlin> Proteus: what sort of stuff do you get up to?
18:37 < the_merlin> Wait a sec, are you associated with the Proteus ingestible-sensor people?
18:37 < the_merlin> 'cause that shit is BADASS.
18:44 < yashgaroth> I don't think he is
18:51 < delinquentme> TIL
18:51 < delinquentme> thats very cool
18:51 < delinquentme> powered by exposure to stomach fluids.
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19:11 < nmz787> i think we saw those ingestible sensor people at a quantified self meetup once
19:12 < nmz787> also UV vision seems kinda pointless, unless you could tell me the concentration of some DNA and protein... seems like getting MORE UV into your eye would just be damaging
19:12 < nmz787> NIR much less so
19:13 < yashgaroth> well that's just, like, your opinion, man
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19:15 < eudoxia> kanzure, where does neverness discuss the issues with exponential replication?
19:15 < eudoxia> all I remember is a mention of "ten thousand planets consumed by [bacterial] assemblers"
19:15 < eudoxia> and the whole ban on KSRMs
19:15 < kanzure> the sequels talk about exponential replication in the vild
19:15 < eudoxia> oh, i thought you were talking about neverness specifically
19:16 < kanzure> so did i, i forgot
19:16 < eudoxia> although
19:16 < eudoxia> the end of neverness, i think, mentions the Architects' habitats and their bajillions of babies, but not by name, I think
19:16 < eudoxia> they are only referred to as part of the Cybernetic Universal Church in The Broken God
19:17 < kanzure> oh so you have read things
19:17 < eudoxia> yes
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19:29 < nmz787> so i think i scared some alibaba people with my "great" knowledge of spectrometers.... they quoted me $2200 for a spectrometer and didn't get back to me after I told them I could get one from Canada for $749... and that I knew how much their electronics cost to build
19:29 < kanzure> or they just realized they weren't going to get a sale out of you
19:31 < the_merlin> nmz787: it's more a matter of having the cones there to detect and process UV, rather than gathering more of it
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19:34 < nmz787> the_merlin: there was a post earlier that mentioned getting more of it via a cornea replacement
19:34 < nmz787> kanzure: i woulda bought one if they had a good price
19:34 < nmz787> I'm not sure what it means when China's prices are higher than Canada's
19:35 < yashgaroth> I suppose if the body heat emission spectrum is minimal at a range just above normal eye detection, it could work, but then I don't know if any organisms detect such a wavelength in nature
19:36 < yashgaroth> specifically in their eyeballs, not those snake heat sensing pits
19:40 < nmz787> body heat is higher up in the micron wavelengths
19:40 < nmz787> not nm
19:42 < nmz787> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared_sensing_in_snakes
19:42 < nmz787> says 5-30 microns is what snakes can 'see'
19:42 < nmz787> and its not photochemical, its a temp sensitive ion channel
19:42 < brownies> why are you shopping for spectrometers on alibaba?
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19:43 < nmz787> brownies: because I don't want to build one myself for $300 plus time (which I've already invested a lot into)... and I don't want to pay $749 to some Canadian...
19:43 < yashgaroth> well I suppose you could do active night vision with an emitter/sensor combo in the 8-900nm range but that'd be electronic so I'll leave it to others
19:43 < nmz787> If I could pay china $400 or $500 I'd be happy, because in either 'buying' case I'd have to hack their software
19:43 < nmz787> and possibly firmware
19:44 < brownies> ah. just curious.
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19:45 < nmz787> brownies: really though I think I'm going to end up experimenting with mounting optics myself and eventually just know how to do it all on my own
19:46 < nmz787> at least for a UV/VIS spectrometer
19:56 < kanzure> nmz787: what was the puzzle piece you were looking for regarding math for aligning optical pieces?
19:56 < kanzure> or it was something about figuring out which optical pieces to buy?
19:57 < kanzure> since postdocs are so cheap, i think if you outline the problem in a 1 or 2 page doc, we can just pay a postdoc to write some code to solve the problem for $200 - $300 since their time seems so cheap
19:57 < nmz787> hmm
19:57 < nmz787> a postdoc that doesn't have work?
19:57 < nmz787> i dont think post docs outside bio are cheap
19:57 < kanzure> huh? no it can be one that does have work
19:57 < kanzure> $300 isn't a fulltime job :)
19:57 < kanzure> oh are you sure?
19:57 < nmz787> no, but its my gut feeling
19:58 < nmz787> optics would be engineering, and those guys fresh outta B.S. make at least 2 -3 X more than a bio B.S.
19:58 < yashgaroth> lot fewer engineering grad students than bio
19:59 < kanzure> optics would be the physics nerds in grad school
19:59 < nmz787> i think bio paying low has something to do with bio being associated with "doesn't know math"
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20:00 < nmz787> i'm no math champion, but there were many people in my program that were way worse at math
20:00 < yashgaroth> and the hordes of students who like plants and animals and stuff
20:00 < kanzure> fucking plants
20:01 < yashgaroth> they go from "oh I'd like to be a whale biologist" to "oh I can be shitty at bio for low pay" rather fast
20:01 < nmz787> yeah that too
20:02 < nmz787> cause the japs are eatin all the whales, takin the whale biologists' jobs
20:02 < yashgaroth> dey terk ar wherls
20:04 < nmz787> :P
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21:03 < the_merlin> yashgaroth: hahaha
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21:09 < kanzure> "This is misleading. Named anchors have been deprecated since HTML4 and replaced with element IDs. (Yes, that's right: you can link to any element with a href="#thing" as long as it has id="thing". Yes, it works everywhere.)"
21:09 < kanzure> doh
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22:36 < jrayhawk> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2012/080812-open-source-movements-butt-heads-over-261484.html ha ha oh bruce perens
22:36 < kanzure> this wasn't bruce perens related afaik
22:37 < kanzure> oshwa doesn't really act on behalf of the entire open source hardware community.. they were just able to get the biggest conference the fastest because they are make magazine and adafruit and sparkfun
22:37 < jrayhawk> oh
22:37 < jrayhawk> dopey me
22:37 < kanzure> i think osi's responses so far have been very levelheaded.. they said that under us law they have to protect their trademark, and so they offered oshwa a license
22:38 < kanzure> and oshwa failed to respond or something
22:40 < kanzure> what? "OSI is willing to license the trademark, OSHWA's Gibb wrote in the blog entry. However, accepting such a license would establish OSI as the owner of the gear logo, which could put members at risk of litigation."
22:41 < kanzure> ""OSI should issue a release for the gear logo, and allow the open-source hardware organization to use the logo under its own rules."
22:42 < kanzure> i'm pretty sure you can't do that on a trademark
22:42 < nmz7871> they should just use tux
22:42 < nmz7871> who doesn't like penguins
22:42 < kanzure> they should just use a giant gaping asshole as a "fuck you" to the rest of the open hardware community
22:42 < kanzure> oh or penguins
22:43 < kanzure> ok
22:45 < nmz7871> man jobs suck
22:46 < nmz7871> this whole choosing where to live based on where chandni get's something is so lame
22:46 < kanzure> yes
22:47 < nmz7871> NYC really blows, but her job seems decent.... Portland is way cleaner and more nature-prone, but Intel sounds like they could either be great, or work her 10-12 hours a day
22:47 < kanzure> working 8 or 9 hours can still be miserable
22:47 < kanzure> in other more subtle ways
22:48 < kanzure> all those years of watching the dilbert cartoon? yep..
22:49 < jrayhawk> where are you getting your overtime fears?
22:49 -!- druze80 [~druze80@174.142.11.196] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:49 < kanzure> druze80: hi
22:50 < nmz7871> jrayhawk: http://www.faceintel.com/collegecorner.htm#From a former Intel employee
22:51 < kanzure> you mean http://www.faceintel.com/collegecorner.htm#From%20a%20former%20Intel%20employee
22:51 < nmz7871> jrayhawk: the dates there are all pre 2000
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22:57 < jrayhawk> you might want to talk to active employees
22:59 < nmz787> yeah... i wonder if there is an IRC room they hang out in
23:00 < kanzure> no you just show up during their lunch break
23:00 < kanzure> go to the restaurants around their campus
23:02 < nmz787> great idea /after/ i'm in their area
23:02 < kanzure> isn't their an intel campus in nyc?
23:02 < nmz787> I dunnoo
23:03 < nmz787> I didn't know this happened http://newsroom.intel.com/community/intel_newsroom/blog/2011/02/28/intel-completes-acquisition-of-mcafee
23:15 < kanzure> anyone know what's going on here? http://manybooks.net/titles/kleinjother07rood.html
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23:17 < yashgaroth> what the
23:18 < kanzure> i guess not
23:19 < yashgaroth> oh I think it's a prequel to Tank Girl
23:22 -!- rmcl [~rmcl@99-71-136-35.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:23 < nmz787> mmm, pakistania kraft
23:25 < nmz787> eReader == .pdb for their file extension?
23:26 < kanzure> .pub
23:27 -!- marainein [~net@2001:388:608c:6cb5:8c82:2bda:35ba:9d43] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:28 < yashgaroth> 17576 options for extensions...and proteins, ebooks and program database files all use the same one
23:29 < kanzure> the ebooks people are just being jerks, they knew .pdb has been in use since the 90s by bioinformatics peeps
--- Log closed Thu Aug 09 00:00:33 2012