--- Log opened Fri Aug 31 00:00:12 2012
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00:28 < kanzure> "There was a security problem at Bio.CC. Kanzure put a soft link in the HTTPD dirctory to its mother directory which made private directories exposed to the world and some private files were up on Google site. It caused a rather serious problem."
00:28 < kanzure> oh was that me
00:28 < kanzure> hm. i wish someone would have told me.
00:29 < brownies> kanzure: smooth.
00:30 < kanzure> brownies: http://biofoundation.net/ it's like a never ending maze
00:30 < kanzure> apparently that was 2009
00:30 < brownies> kanzure: so many colors!
00:31 < kanzure> http://open-bio.org/
00:31 < kanzure> actually these are the guys who sequenced the tiger genome
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00:38 < brownies> that's pretty impressive
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01:50 < kanzure> so there's a cvs repository for http://bioinformatics.org/pogo/ that i seem to have access to
01:50 < kanzure> it's a bunch of visual basic
01:50 < kanzure> not sure i want this?
01:50 < brownies> no one ever wanted visual basic
01:50 < brownies> also, isn't it 4am for you?
01:50 < kanzure> time has no meaning to me
01:50 < kanzure> wait, yes it does
01:50 < brownies> time is an illusion
01:50 < brownies> lunchtime, doubly so.
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04:14 < chris_99> some interesting videos here http://www.jove.com
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04:23 < kanzure> chris_99: dnatube.com also used to be a thing
04:29 < chris_99> cool
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05:07 < delinquentme> hardware anyone ? http://imgur.com/a/7BHQI
05:07 < delinquentme> i need this.
05:07 < delinquentme> internally threaded ... something of an anchor
05:10 < foucist> delinquentme: have you checked the local hardware store? :P
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05:13 < delinquentme> foucist: nah i havnt :D
05:13 < delinquentme> any idea what they're called?
05:14 < foucist> nope.. just take the pic along though..
05:14 < foucist> sure they have anchor type stuff around
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05:15 < foucist> they might have attachments like that in the concrete section
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05:54 < chris_99> http://citizensciencequarterly.com/2012/03/25/gogofuge-an-open-source-microcentrifuge/
05:55 < delinquentme> im not really with the wood astetic
05:55 < delinquentme> aestetic
05:55 < chris_99> yeah i know what you mean heh
05:56 < chris_99> it's a lot safer than using it spinning with no case though
05:56 < delinquentme> true.
05:59 < chris_99> anyone use PIC32's per chance?
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06:29 < pasky> is it dangerous to mix piracetamol and coffee?
06:30 < chris_99> paracetamol?
06:31 < chris_99> if so read this http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/aches-and-pains/medicines/panadol-extra.html
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06:36 < pasky> *piracetam, sorry :)
06:36 < pasky> i keep confusing these two
06:37 < chris_99> ah, no idea then sorry
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07:18 < strangewarp> I've mixed aniracetam and coffee and I've been fine for 5 months
07:19 < strangewarp> anecdote, of course
07:19 < strangewarp> Switching to citicoline, alpha-GPC, and noopept in a couple days, and we'll see how they work with coffee
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07:22 < chris_99> are they supposed to help you focus better
07:22 < strangewarp> Focus and mental capacity, yeah
07:22 < chris_99> noticably?
07:22 < strangewarp> Weirdly, for me, they work as an antidepressant, better even than SSRIs
07:23 < strangewarp> Noticably, yeah.. though I'd say more noticably for citicoline than aniracetam (but that might just be an effect of taking the minimum 'racetam dosage)
07:24 < chris_99> cool, apparently they're prescription only in europe
07:24 < strangewarp> Yeah, I'm pretty sure they're only perscribed for Alzheimer's patients there, because humans are stupid
07:35 < delinquentme> you're born you get to grade school you do some socializing perhaps begin to question why you're here you find your spot in the social pecking order you maybe go to college you make out w some kids, maybe even get laid you find yourself a nice individual you feel comfortable around it starts to get serious you start to get older maybe joke about putting on a few pounds! your group of friends dwindles in size as everyone g
07:42 < ThomasEgi> general question. wasn't here a bot around that can snatch papers and/or create papers from websites?
07:44 < chris_99> yeah there was, i think it was broken though
07:44 < ThomasEgi> oh never mind. the pdf was accessible. just had to turn on js to see the menu
07:44 < delinquentme> I think it had a p name
07:44 < delinquentme> idk though
07:44 < delinquentme> oh that got cut off
07:44 < delinquentme>  *coupled* jealousy, personal beliefs about your shortcomings and laziness stop you from growth you start joking about "getting old" and you're not even 70 "jokes" start to become reality you pay more attention to how you're not healing as quickly perhaps find god while pondering it slowly begin to feed more into fate and accepting whats coming. those coping mechanism then have solidified into reality you're getting on in
07:45 < chris_99> paperbot, delinquentme i think
07:45 < ThomasEgi> just in case someone would be interested in the paper http://www.frontiersin.org/neuroengineering/10.3389/neuro.16.005.2009/full
07:45 < delinquentme>  in another 8 years you can retire find a nice little spot / habit to settle down in find a nice habit to become accustomed to as you let it slowly approach.
07:45 < delinquentme> yeah paper bot
07:46 < delinquentme> religious people  being me are recruiting the next generation
07:47 < chris_99> ThomasEgi, have you played with PICS?
07:50 < ThomasEgi> chris_99, i have a pic18 here. but i never used it. just got so used to atmel products :)
07:50 < delinquentme> PICS?
07:50 < delinquentme> oh programmers?
07:51 < chris_99> microcontrollers delinquentme
07:51 < delinquentme> ohhh
07:51 < chris_99> ah, no worries ThomasEgi just a PIC32 is giving me hassle
07:51 < ThomasEgi> chris_99, i do have some experience with embedded systems and microcontrollers in general. if that could help you
07:51 < chris_99> basically it has multiple programming lines
07:51 < chris_99> and i've set the lines it's supposed to use
07:51 < chris_99> but the silly thing isn't programming
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09:00 < strangewarp> raaage
09:00  * strangewarp tries to write music software at a less glacial pace
09:01 < chris_99> heh, cool, whatcha making
09:02 < strangewarp> MIDI sequencer for polyrhythmic sequences, controllable by any Monome-compatible grid device, with a tracker-inspired editor
09:03 < strangewarp> very informationally dense, compared to the usual things; but a very specialized program. Probably won't have more than 5 users. But I'm making it more for myself than anyone
09:05 < strangewarp> I credit nootropics with clearing up my emotional baggage enough that I can make this sort of thing, natch
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09:05 < strangewarp> pff
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09:35 < nsh> did anyone go to austin community college?
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12:25 < chris_99> anyone play with LASERZ?
12:26 < chris_99> (specifically gas ones)
12:26 < ThomasEgi> music? in my cd drive, sure ;)
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12:26 < chris_99> haha
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12:26 < chris_99> done HV ThomasEgi?
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12:42 < ThomasEgi> high voltage?
12:42 < ThomasEgi> on lasers?... bad idea
12:42 < chris_99> CO2 lasers need around 20KV
12:44 < ThomasEgi> ah.
12:44 < ThomasEgi> i thought of diod lasers
12:45 < ThomasEgi> i just got some junkfood so.. my brain is focused on food atm^
12:45 < chris_99> heh, bon apetit
12:46 < ThomasEgi> thx.
12:46 < ThomasEgi> i did some HV experiments in the past. but nothing too serious
12:47 < chris_99> ive just found CRTs give the right kind of voltage
12:47 < chris_99> so possibly hacking one of those
12:48 < ThomasEgi> cascode thingies.. yep. they do :)
12:48 < ThomasEgi> be careful. they can hurd badly
12:48 < chris_99> yeah, probably burn i expect
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14:11 < nmz787> $5 ARM eval board https://estore.ti.com/Stellaris-LaunchPad.aspx?sp_rid_pod4=OTQ5MjAyMzI4NgS2&sp_mid_pod4=39667887
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14:36 < ThomasEgi> not bad that board. but for little more you can have a lot more :)
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15:32 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: show me?
15:32 < kanzure> i am a sucker for $3 programmers
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15:33 < ThomasEgi> for 25 you get a raspberry.
15:33 < chris_99> that's rather overkill though ;)
15:34 < ThomasEgi> true. but still comparebly affordable
15:35 < ThomasEgi> the right boards for the right job i guess
15:37 < kanzure> i was hoping for something that was still a microcontroller
15:37 < kanzure> when i was a youngin', i saw outrageous prices for programmers (>$50).. so what does >$50 buy me now?
15:38 < ThomasEgi> you can get an atmega u2 series. with onboard usb controller.
15:38 < chris_99> hmm, i just bought a PICKIT3 programmer for £30
15:38 < ThomasEgi> you don't need any programmer for them.
15:38 < ThomasEgi> just a reset button and the usb-connections.
15:39 < ThomasEgi> and a clock crystal. but that should be pretty close to 3 bucks
15:46 < kanzure> har har http://www.ibiblio.org/harris/500milemail.html
15:54 < ThomasEgi> old story. but always good for a smile
15:56 < kanzure> yeah it's ibiblio.org.. no way it can be recent :p
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16:29 < skorket> evening all
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16:50 < chris_99> you could use spectroscopy to tell if certain chemicals are the same right?
16:55 < jrayhawk> Not structurally, but compositionally at least.
16:57 < chris_99> yeah
16:58 < chris_99> i'm tempted by one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Compact-Fiber-Coupled-CCD-Spectrometer-Kit-DIY-/221117621936?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337ba326b0
17:02 < chris_99> right time for bed, night peeps
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19:25 < kanzure> yashgaroth: hi
19:25 < kanzure> the methods in molecular bio loot will be done soon
19:26 < yashgaroth> you'll be up to your ears in giant wombats in no time
19:27 < brownies> glowing giant wombats, or gtfo
19:27 < kanzure> brownies: glowing tits or gtfo
19:28  * nsh blinks until the words make sense
19:48 < brownies> o.O
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20:41 < kanzure> wizaqua: hi
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21:00 < wizaqua> jhi
21:29 < kanzure> so, i wonder how much it would cost to actually go around digging up graves
21:29 < kanzure> i'm curious about stealing dna from the dead
21:29 < kanzure> in terms of manual labor, i doubt it's more than $500/coffin?
21:33 < jrayhawk> if you're digging it up clandestinely and replacing the dirt clandestinely
21:34 < jrayhawk> much cheaper if you can use a backhoe
21:34 < jrayhawk> even cheaper still if you just use a big core sample drill
21:34 < kanzure> huh? how would a core sample drill be cheaper than a backhoe
21:34 < jrayhawk> you don't need a lot of tissue, so your core sample drill can be very skinny and possibly operated by hand
21:35 < kanzure> i suppose so.. snake down a fiber optic camera and a drill/snatcherthing
21:36 < kanzure> maxwell was burried at Parton Chuchyard, Dumfries and Galloway, Scotland
21:37 < kanzure> hrm all these gravefinding sites are awful. i need a graveyard api.
21:38 < foucist> just access the zombie net
21:59 < joshcryer> wtf dna from the dead? why?
22:03 < yashgaroth> lot easier to find interesting genomes if you don't require them to be from the living
22:04 < sylph_mako> Do DNA sequences compress easily, as data?
22:05 < yashgaroth> it's hard to directly compare, but you can swap a good 80% of the genome between people with no effect
22:06 < joshcryer> I dispute that.
22:06 < yashgaroth> k
22:06 < joshcryer> Spend $500 to dig up a grave or give some dude on the street $5 for a swab.
22:07 < joshcryer> Go around searching through garbage outside of a university for condoms.
22:08 < yashgaroth> those people don't sound very interesting
22:08  * joshcryer shrugs
22:08 < joshcryer> Guess I see quantity over quality...
22:09 < yashgaroth> we've got various 'thousand genomes' projects for quantity
22:11 < joshcryer> I mean for value / expense. Are we doing bios of the dead?
22:11 < joshcryer> Or is it "well let's just hit that random gravestone."
22:12 < yashgaroth> [21:37:03] .:kanzure:. maxwell was burried at Parton Chuchyard, Dumfries and Galloway, Scotland
22:12 < yashgaroth> seems to imply it's not a random selection
22:12 < yashgaroth> if the name doesn't ring a bell, I don't know what to tell you
22:13 < joshcryer> Would DNA still be viable 100 years on?
22:13 < yashgaroth> in the bone marrow and with next-gen sequencing, maybe yes
22:14 < joshcryer> Then I fully endorse this endeavour.
22:14 < kanzure> condoms at a university will just get you mostly students
22:15 < joshcryer> Who might turn out to be interesting...
22:15 < yashgaroth> scott, and other polar explorers, will be easily readable until we care to find them
22:15 < yashgaroth> dead polar explorers*
22:15 < kanzure> dna is viable for up to 100,000 years ish it seems
22:15 < kanzure> so yes dna from the last few thousand years in graveyards is extractable
22:16 < yashgaroth> I take it that denisovan genome story spurred your interest
22:16 < joshcryer> Einstein's brain?
22:16 < kanzure> yashgaroth: what? don't know what that is
22:16 < kanzure> no i've thought about graverobbing for a while now
22:16 < foucist> http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/aug/30/scientists-genetic-makeup-denisovan-girl
22:16 < yashgaroth> some proto-human got genome-sequenced with surprisingly good...err yeah ^
22:17 < foucist> dna from 50k years ago
22:17 < kanzure> the problem with paying people is that they would want actual money
22:17 < kanzure> "well, i have this interesting metabolism mutation where i can eat big macs all day without problems. gimme $50k base and $20k/embryo."
22:18 < foucist> kanzure: i would also be careful to make any assumptions about the person you extracted dna from..  i mean, sure let's say you find maxwell's grave, drill down and extract some flesh.  how do you know if it's maxwell's dna?  chances are it's not
22:18 < joshcryer> I think I'd be more willing to lie than to dig up graves. *shrug* "Hi, I need a swab to test for dieseases, here's $5, I'll tell you the result later."
22:19 < yashgaroth> who else's dna would it be?
22:19 < foucist> unless you actually bring the coffin up and have a domain expert examine the remains to verify that it is in fact him
22:19 < kanzure> domain expert? in identifying corpses? heh
22:19 < yashgaroth> "he's dead alright"
22:19 < kanzure> "oh yep, that's definitely hitler. no doubt about it."
22:19 < foucist> domain expert in maxwell i mean
22:20 < kanzure> (my plans for super hitler are proceeding exactly as i have foreseen)
22:20 < yashgaroth> if someone's crafty enough to get their grave internationally recognized as maxwell's, they also have an interesting genome I'd say
22:21 < kanzure> but realistically it's probably <1000 mutations of interest
22:23 < joshcryer> What makes you interesting?
22:23 < kanzure> nothing?
22:23 < kanzure> in many cases i bet there will be nothing interesting
22:24 < kanzure> i also bet that the proprietarialists (?) will want to protect their "family heritage" against these sorts of actions
22:24 < kanzure> e.g. they will probably want to flush down a bone-eating bacteria
22:24 < foucist> for maxwell probably <10 genes of interest
22:25 < kanzure> of course, that's sort of silly for them to do since anyone can just follow them and get some hair eventually.
22:25 < foucist> both epigenetics & nurture probably accounts for a fair amount
22:25 < kanzure> but, still.
22:25 < foucist> rather than the base genes
22:25 < kanzure> foucist: i was never arguing toherwise
22:25 < kanzure> *otherwise
22:25 < foucist> kanzure: i was responding more to yashgaroth
22:25 < kanzure> epigenetics is no excuse to not go graverobbing
22:25 < foucist> like you were
22:25 < yashgaroth> oh I'm not interesting either
22:25 < yashgaroth> wait that was josh
22:26 < kanzure> it needs a better word than graverobbing
22:26 < kanzure> graverobbing is so crude
22:26 < yashgaroth> soul harvesting?
22:26 < yashgaroth> oooh bone reaving
22:26 < foucist> lol
22:27 < kanzure> well i was going more for grave birthing
22:28 < yashgaroth> copy venter and call it the "global grave sampling expedition"
22:28 < joshcryer> yashgaroth, you / 'whoever we're finding interesting' :P
22:28 < joshcryer> heh boan reaving
22:29 < yashgaroth> oh you know, have an equation or two named after you, that sort of thing
22:30 < kanzure> 'grave sampling expedition' sounds good to me
22:30 < joshcryer> Fair enough. I like it.
22:30 < joshcryer> kanzure, gravology?
22:30 < joshcryer> tombology
22:30 < kanzure> "My study is of the gravest sort."
22:30 < yashgaroth> I mean a.) there probably won't be anything concrete we can glean, and b.) I'm a communist, but one maxwell genome is still worth a thousand random peoples'
22:31 < kanzure> i think "grave sampling expedition" is even tame enough for kickstarter
22:31 < joshcryer> yashgaroth, imho you will find more concrete stuff by grabbing a few million people and ... educating them properly, then grabbing their DNA.
22:31 < yashgaroth> sounds expensive
22:32 < kanzure> joshcryer: it's still costly to sequence everyone
22:32 < joshcryer> As Moglen says, the greatest injustice is that, "every human society since the beginning, whenever that was, has wasted almost all the brains it possessed."
22:32 < foucist> Tomb Raider
22:32 < kanzure> foucist: i fail
22:32 < foucist> there are always interesting bones in tombs
22:33 < kanzure> i don't know why tomb raider wasn't my first idea
22:33 < foucist> heh
22:34 < kanzure> so, i'm not sure i would be able to find people who are already skilled at graverobbing
22:34 < kanzure> but, it's pretty easy to practice
22:34 < joshcryer> Good luck.
22:34 < foucist> "Fund a real life tomb raiding expedition!"
22:35 < kanzure> rewards?
22:35 < kanzure> hitler's fibula
22:35 < kanzure> oh he was cremated
22:35 < kanzure> that's a much harder problem
22:36 < joshcryer> Probably not a terribly interesting genome anyway.
22:36 < yashgaroth> cremated is a nice way to describe it in that particular case
22:40 < kanzure> i think this would just degenerate into a "congratulations! your kid gets to have a terrible life-threatening muscle dystrophy disease!"
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22:41 < foucist> kanzure: i'm sure many cemetaries have skilled grave diggers on staff
22:41 < foucist> probably could look for professional exhumers
22:41 < kanzure> they wouldn't want to participate because it's illegal (i'm pretty sure)
22:43 < ParahSailin_> wait why do you guys wanna dig up bodies
22:43 < joshcryer> I had the same question, apparently to find interesting DNA from notable individuals.
22:44 < joshcryer> (also, I'm pretty sure kanzure is crazy, just a tiny bit)
22:44 < kanzure> bah you're just unwilling to do what's necessary
22:45 < joshcryer> It's the good kind of crazy.
22:48 < joshcryer> I fully endorse grave robbing notable individual DNA and reanimating them (including later on the possibility of a whole life simulation so that they are reasonable approximations of their pre-dead selves).
22:49 < joshcryer> The whole genome search for interesting mutations is thing is just a side effect. ;P
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