--- Log opened Sat Sep 01 00:00:13 2012
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08:11 -!- Topic for ##hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | sponsored by george church and the NRA | http://gnusha.org/logs http://diyhpl.us/wiki http://groups.google.com/group/diybio | friends don't let friends do super college
08:11 -!- Topic set by kanzure [~kanzure@131.252.130.248] [Fri Aug 10 08:01:18 2012]
08:11 [Users ##hplusroadmap]
08:11 [ _sol_    ] [ CIA-13         ] [ gnusha    ] [ klafka       ] [ pasky       ] [ Thorbinator1] 
08:11 [ AdrianG  ] [ cloud-brownies ] [ Guest87504] [ Lemminkainen_] [ phryk       ] [ upgrayeddd  ] 
08:11 [ AlonzoTG ] [ Coornail       ] [ Helleshin ] [ lichen       ] [ Sanqui      ] [ Urchin      ] 
08:11 [ alusion  ] [ devrandom      ] [ HEx1      ] [ Mokbortolan_1] [ SDr         ] [ Utopiah     ] 
08:11 [ archels  ] [ docl           ] [ ivan`     ] [ nathaniel    ] [ skorket     ] [ Validatorian] 
08:11 [ audy     ] [ drazak_        ] [ JayDugger ] [ nsh          ] [ smeaaagle   ] [ Vicarious   ] 
08:11 [ augur    ] [ EnLilaSko      ] [ Jenda`    ] [ nuba         ] [ strages_home] [ wizaqua     ] 
08:11 [ bkero    ] [ epitron        ] [ jennicde_ ] [ obscurit1    ] [ strangewarp ] [ yorick      ] 
08:11 [ Burninate] [ fenn           ] [ jmil      ] [ OldCoder     ] [ streety     ] 
08:11 [ chido    ] [ foucist        ] [ jrayhawk  ] [ OldCoder_    ] [ superkuh    ] 
08:11 [ chris_99 ] [ gedankenstuecke] [ kanzure   ] [ ParahSailin_ ] [ ThomasEgi   ] 
08:11 -!- Irssi: ##hplusroadmap: Total of 63 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 63 normal]
08:11 -!- Channel ##hplusroadmap created Thu Feb 25 23:40:30 2010
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08:16 < kanzure> you guys are being boring
08:17 < chido> sorry
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08:21 < EnLilaSko> Too much spam
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08:31 < kanzure> EnLilaSko: which stuff was spam?
08:31 < EnLilaSko> I was joking that people were spamming because it's dead here.
08:33 < kanzure> you could even say everyone has a grave complexion
08:34  * docl has just signed up for FoldIt
08:35 < docl> the game where you fold proteins for science
08:35 < docl> I wonder how long it takes to get good at?
08:38  * kanzure folds docl
08:39  * docl crumples into a novel shape
08:39 < docl> high score!
08:39 < strangewarp> docl: A couple months I think? Quicker if you're a super-pro puzzle gamer
08:44 < docl> hmm. they should fold proteins for nootropics that make you better at folding proteins. then we enter the foldularity.
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08:50 < chris_99> w00t finally programmed a 32 bit PIC
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08:56 < strangewarp> docl: Damn you, I laughed...
08:59 < docl> :)
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10:05 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: 25dd8f6 add an anchor for bangalore
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10:22 < chris_99b> ThomasEgi, have you done USB before?
10:22 < chris_99b> on MCUs
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10:22 < ThomasEgi> not directly
10:22 < ThomasEgi> only via an rs232 adapter chip
10:22 < ThomasEgi> i know someone who does tho.
10:22 < chris_99b> ah yeah i've done that
10:23 < chris_99b> am just about to try and implement a virtual serial port hopefully
10:23 < chris_99b> on a PIC
10:23 < ThomasEgi> is a pic even fast enough for that?
10:23 < chris_99b> yup
10:23 < chris_99b> it can do usb directly
10:47 < archels> chris_99b: I was going to give this a try soon http://www.obdev.at/products/vusb/index.html
10:47 < archels> If an AVR can bitbang USB, so can a PIC. Would probably suck having to port this entire library yourself though.
10:48 < kanzure> why would you want to use a pic anyway?
10:48  * kanzure is a sucker for avr chips
10:49 < archels> indeed, indeed.
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11:02 < ThomasEgi> true.. i mean. there are avr's that come with hardware-usb controller
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11:04 < chris_99b> that looks cool archels
11:04 < chris_99b> kanzure, because i've done a fair bit of programming with PICs
11:04 < archels> ThomasEgi: Yes, but those are often overkill, coming in 100+ pin packages. This library allows you to run dataloggers and stuff on really basic, 8-pin micros.
11:04 < chris_99b> PICs have their own lib too
11:05 < ThomasEgi> archels, they "often" .. yeah. but there are very small ones too. with just a hand full of pins
11:07 < ThomasEgi> like the 8u2 which has 32 pins
11:08 < ThomasEgi> in tqfp package. so. they can be still soldered by hand without special equipment
11:11 < archels> ThomasEgi: and n times as expensive.
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11:14 < ThomasEgi> 3dollar 70 cent per unit. if you order single quantities
11:15 < ThomasEgi> about 2 if you order in the thousands
11:15 < ThomasEgi> if you tell me that hacking a usb stack into a pic is worth that much time*average programmer pay per hour...
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11:23 < archels> Well, if you're going to switch from PIC to AVR, you'll probably need another programmer as well.
11:23 < archels> Anyway, I meant that the simple AVRs cost a lot less than those with hardware USB support.
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11:43 < ThomasEgi> but for an usb enabled avr you don't need a programmer
11:43 < ThomasEgi> as you can programm it right over usb
11:44 < ThomasEgi> all you need to do is to connect a simple reset-button and a pullup resistor
11:46 < archels> Until you screw up the bootloader, sure. :)
11:47 < ThomasEgi> hard to do^
11:47 < ThomasEgi> it is some atmel hardware thingy iirc
11:47 < ThomasEgi> and you use their software to upload the actual code to the atmega
11:48 < ThomasEgi> if you really screw that up. you need to go with the 6pin isp header.
11:48 < ThomasEgi> programmers for that are cheap. and can be made from a simple atmega,too^
11:50 < chris_99> are they JTAG
12:01 < ThomasEgi> some atmegas come with jtag ports
12:02 < ThomasEgi> not sure if they are used for regular ISP
12:02 < ThomasEgi> in worst case you just buy a programmer for 15 bucks and that's it
12:02 < ThomasEgi> if you have a parallel port, then you don't even need that
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12:03 < ThomasEgi> even a true rs232 port is enough
12:03 < kanzure> "mv: cannot move `blah' to a subdirectory of itself, `blah/blah'"
12:03 < kanzure> anyone know how to do this? :|
12:03 < kanzure> i'd rather not rename things manually
12:03 < ThomasEgi> yeah
12:04 < ThomasEgi> it is just as the error tells you. you cant move a directory into a directory that's inside that one
12:04 < ThomasEgi> that would like.. create a directory-loop outside the rest of the filesystem
12:05 < kanzure> yes, but maybe there's a "yes, i really want to move this into a folder named blah/ even if that blah doesn't exist yet"
12:05 < ThomasEgi> nope. this is a "no we can't allow you to create a timespacewraploop on your harddisk"
12:06 < brownies> the problem is essentially that you're using "blah" to mean 2 different things
12:06 < brownies> and there's no way for it to tell the difference
12:06 < kanzure> yeah i know
12:06 < kanzure> i'd be fine if i have to pass a flag
12:09 < ThomasEgi> how about you move the content of your directory blah into a new directory. and then move this one
12:09 < ThomasEgi> it's more about making sense than passing flags i guess
12:09 < kanzure> that's what i do already. i do that all the time and i'm bored of it.
12:09 < brownies> this is kanzure's weekend project
12:09 < kanzure> i could write a script, but then i have to add it to my "populate a new computer with all my terrible scripts" thing.
12:10 < brownies> if he can solve it this weekend, then he'll be net positive on time gained after the next couple decades or so
12:10 < kanzure> yep
12:10 < kanzure> $ ls -1 ~/local
12:10 < kanzure> 573
12:10 < kanzure> i've done this 573 times, that's like almost an hour of typing
12:10 < kanzure> over the course of >3 years.
12:11 < ThomasEgi> how about using rsync to copy stuff to the new directory and delete the old ones?
12:11 < ThomasEgi> might not be as fast tho
12:11 < kanzure> rsync would probably complain about the source or destination already existing?
12:12 < ThomasEgi> rsync has many options
12:12 < ThomasEgi> i used the wrong options yesturday and ended up creating a copy of a directory within the directory
12:13 < ThomasEgi> which is probably not much different from what described
12:13 < ThomasEgi> probably just need to add the option to delete the successfully copied files or so
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12:14 < ThomasEgi> but then.. i think that's really what scripts are for
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13:38 < chris_99b> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270724611652?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
13:39 < chris_99b> itsy bitsy laser cutter
13:55 < ThomasEgi> bout 600 euros with shipping..
13:55 < ThomasEgi> not bad
13:57 < ThomasEgi> that waterpump looks.. cheap tho
13:58 < chris_99b> yeah
13:58 < chris_99b> could easily get a better one for £30
13:58 -!- HighSpeed is now known as AdrianG
13:59 < chris_99b> one of these would be fun to play with http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120967374923?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
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14:10 < ThomasEgi> chris_99b, if you think that watching a small rotor slowly rotate has a great long-term fun factor..
14:10 < ThomasEgi> i can recommend analog clocks in that case.
14:10 < ThomasEgi> hours of fun
14:13 < strangewarp> gnahaahaha
14:13 < strangewarp> My noopept has arrived :3
14:14 < chris_99b> 1000 times stronger than piracetam ey
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14:35 < yashgaroth> well, by weight
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14:37 < brownies> isn't that the mysterious russian chemical?
14:37 < yashgaroth> is not mysterious, drug is fine
14:38 < yashgaroth> all hail glorious russian biochem corpus
14:41 < kanzure> yashgaroth: what else should i grab besides "methods in molecular bio"
14:42 < yashgaroth> Encyclopedia of Molecular Cell Biology and Molecular Medicine, T. Strachan, A. Read - Human Molecular Genetics 4ed(2011), Janeway%27s_Immunobiology, Gene and Cell Therapy - Therapeutic Mechanisms and Strategies, ummm
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14:43 < brownies> yashgaroth: haha
14:43 < yashgaroth> Methods in Molecular Biology & Medicine is another compendium, it's a bit more general too
14:44 < yashgaroth> GURPS - 4th Edition - BioTech :D
14:44 < brownies> you got a paper handy on noopept?
14:45  * kanzure looks
14:45 < kanzure> uh apparently, no
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15:13 < chris_99> is there a decent book explaining how different drugs work
15:14 < yashgaroth> did you have a specific subclass in mind
15:15 < yashgaroth> for a lot of psychoactives we don't know much
15:16 < chris_99> not really, would be curious about any drugs really from morphine to whatever
15:17 < yashgaroth> wikipedia's pretty good
15:17 < kanzure> i don't recall seeing a generic "what this chemical does when it comes into random contact with your cell parts"
15:18 < kanzure> like, most of the time there's no interaction between the integral proteins on the surface of a cell and a random chemical in the bloodstream
15:18 < kanzure> but some can definitely plastify..plasticate? whatever.
15:18 < brownies> perhaps you should start by reading on neurotransmitters
15:19 < brownies> oh i guess that would only be appropriate for drugs that are targeted to the brain
15:19 < brownies> more generally you can (almost) always find a "mechanism of action" section for any drug on wikipedia or (if you must) in a pharmacology encyclopedia
15:20 < kanzure> ehh.. "mechanism of action" isn't always known
15:20 < chris_99> yeah true, wikipedia is helpful for that when it is known.  It'd be cool though if there was a book on how they develop new drugs
15:20 < kanzure> look up 'drug discovery'
15:21 < brownies> right, it's not always known, but it's a good start
15:21 < yashgaroth> they either find a compound in nature that supposedly has an effect, then modify it, or get a library of millions of molecules and see which ones bind the target protien
15:21 < brownies> yea it's very haphazard and not terribly analytical atm
15:22 < kanzure> or in some cases they have a greybeard that might know something about a very narrow range of chemical structures, and he miight have a good guess
15:22 < yashgaroth> once they have a potential binder they can try and see where it fits into the protein using crystallography
15:22 < kanzure> and this greybeard might have authored the last 400 books on the subject
15:22 < kanzure> (some of the organic chemists are nuts like this)
15:22 < chris_99> hehe
15:22 < brownies> yeah, sometimes you stumble across a whole family of molecules, and you can try variatons on a theme and get different results within a narrow spectrum
15:23 < brownies> kanzure: are we thinking of the same greybeard? heh
15:23 < yashgaroth> using the crystal structure, there is a little rationality to modifying the chemical...but still not much
15:23 < kanzure> i had one example in mind but i can't remember his name :(
15:23 < brownies> or you can deduce, "hey, sticking this group onto the molecule makes it do X... let's stick that group onto other things and see what happens!"
15:23 < kanzure> one of his popular photos is him standing next to his stack of 400 books he authored
15:24 < brownies> oh, hm, i don't think the one i have in mind authored 400 books
15:24 < yashgaroth> whitesides?
15:24 < kanzure> no not whitesides
15:24 < kanzure> someone less popular :P
15:24 < yashgaroth> pah
15:24 < kanzure> whitesides is even known by non-chemists
15:24 < brownies> naw
15:25 < brownies> nothing like a rousing game of "guess the famous organic chemist" though
15:25 < kanzure> well, maybe he's on http://www.rsc.org/images/H-index%20ranking%20of%20living%20chemists(December%202011)_tcm18-211414.pdf
15:26 < yashgaroth> man I forgot how much germans love chemistry
15:26 < kanzure> and was from israel
15:26 < kanzure> which doesn't help, because israel pumps out a lot of organic chemists
15:27 < yashgaroth> wiesel?
15:28 < yashgaroth> wait no
15:29 < kanzure> not an easy thing to find.
15:30 < kanzure> it would probably help if i could remember which subfield it was
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15:42 < kanzure> i swear these chemists look dead inside
15:42 < kanzure> http://www.rsc.org/ej/CS/2009/b822963p/b822963p-p1.gif
15:43 < kanzure> http://www.rsc.org/ej/CS/2009/b822963p/b822963p-p2.gif
15:43 < kanzure> http://www.rsc.org/ej/JM/2006/b505706j/b505706j-p2.gif
15:44 < kanzure> i should make a face guessing game.. molecular biologist or organic chemist or software engineer?
15:46 < kanzure> "organic chemist or legendary blues player"
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15:58 < kanzure> "Wythe Marschall is the co-author of Suspicious Anatomy, an illustrated book of fake neuroscience" ?
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15:58 < nsh> eh?
15:59 < kanzure> "Spawned from a dissatisfaction with the theoretical nature of the transhumanism movement, biohackers--often referred to as "grinders"--seek to improve" grinders? :( blaah
16:00 < nsh> so i should cancel all that personalised stationary i ordered with "Grinder 4 lyf" on it?
16:01 < kanzure> well, it just means that more people who really should be pointed to BMEzine will wind up in here
16:01 < nsh> oh
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16:39 < jrayhawk> body modders make for willing experimental subjects, though
16:40 < kanzure>  5
16:40 < kanzure> dfkfajsdfa
16:52 < ThomasEgi> ... willing experimental subjects.. like that one guy that is so keen to turn himself into a furry that he risks even death by super-gen-cancer
16:53 < ThomasEgi> *sigh* yeah... grinders/biohackers attrackt a lot of weirdo (and often unskilled) people.
17:01 < kanzure> to be fair, most of the educational materials in genetics is crap
17:01 < kanzure> it's all the same style
17:01 < kanzure> and it's never lab techniques
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17:10 < strangewarp> If someone tries to turn themself into a furry with untested biotech, I am going to facepalm so hard
17:11 < kanzure> technology doesn't turn you into a furry... the internet does.
17:12 < strangewarp> pffff
17:13 < ThomasEgi> strangewarp, wanna see the link?.. it might make you puke. the guy is pretty resistant against good advice.
17:14 < kanzure> "BELIEVE IN YOURSELF"
17:14 < strangewarp> Like, I am as pro-furry as can possibly be, but even I recognize that using untested biotech never turns out well outside of certain erotic comics
17:14 < strangewarp> ThomasEgi: Urgh... fine, link me
17:14 < ThomasEgi> http://discuss.biohack.me/discussion/259/operation-fuzzball
17:14 < ThomasEgi> you've been warned
17:14 < strangewarp> ugh
17:14 < kanzure> operation... fuzzball? o.O
17:14 < ThomasEgi> daaarn straight.
17:15 < ThomasEgi> ohgood i can't stop laughting just thinking about that discussion
17:15 < strangewarp> ugh, god, I can't read more than half the opening sentence without wanting to strangle this person
17:15 < ThomasEgi> that sentence spawns across 6 lines^
17:15 < ThomasEgi> goosh i hope i never get reminded of this guy when i am in public
17:16 < ThomasEgi> guess otherwise someone would call the police cause i'd be like laughting my butt of so hard
17:17 < strangewarp> I'm of the opinion that furry and H+ need to be kept apart as long as possible, because you'll get some fannish moron killing himself with bad science sooner or later
17:17 < ThomasEgi> btw.. 2nd post is pretty much what you intended to do
17:17 < ThomasEgi> yeah.. but then. this is the internet. furries will hang on to whatever straw they can to keep their hope floating
17:18 < strangewarp> very true
17:18 < ThomasEgi> their reasoning is beyond logic
17:19 < ThomasEgi> i mean hey, cat ears are cute, sure. but like... fucking myself up by nuking my genes and turning me into a giant tumor.. no way.
17:20 < ThomasEgi> there are less painful and more fun ways to kill yourself afterall
17:20 < ThomasEgi> like.. jumping out of a plane with no chute or so.
17:20 < strangewarp> ha
17:21 < strangewarp> I'm into the idea of that sort of bodmod, but I'm going to wait until it's not a shot in the dark with untested methods, natch
17:22 < ParahSailin_> so now i can be a real brony?
17:22 < ThomasEgi> what's a browny? mix between a schocolate cookie and a pony?
17:22 < strangewarp> ThomasEgi: turn back, before it's too late
17:23 < ThomasEgi> don't worry. i just want to know how i can exploit those fools
17:23 < ThomasEgi> they do seem desperate enough to sacrifice themselves. guess it won't be hard to make them funding some semi-related projects
17:24 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: yeah, you might be able to get them to throw money at things
17:24 < kanzure> but, do you really want their money? it means you will be surrounded by them.
17:24 < ThomasEgi> who cares.
17:24 < kanzure> it means more exposure to things you don't like
17:24 < ThomasEgi> with the money i can build my underground village
17:25 < ThomasEgi> i have no problems with their ideas. just with the way they want things that are flat out not possible. and i'll shield myself from that
17:26 < ThomasEgi> besides. some materials for grinding are expensive. implant-grade silicone won't sell for under 300 bucks. and platin-iridium aint exactly cheap either
17:26 < ThomasEgi> so yes. bit of furr-founding would help everyone else
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17:29 < strangewarp> Hmmm
17:30 < strangewarp> You wouldn't even have to scam them, really
17:31 < ThomasEgi> if they'd give up on the gen mod approach
17:31 < strangewarp> If you threw their money at biomechatronics research, you could do it with the justification of "40 years down the line, this will make you into an awesome cyborg of XYZ shape" - which is a plausible, if long-term, assertion
17:32 < ThomasEgi> even on short term you can get something like a tail or realistic looking ears in a couple of years
17:33 < ThomasEgi> but.. if you follow that discussion i linked. that person doesn't seems to be too interested
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17:33 < kanzure> well, show me some numbers. how much moeny do they have?
17:33 < kanzure> i bet they are on average <40 years old, born after 1980
17:33 < strangewarp> Most of them are in dead-end middle-class jobs, from what I can tell
17:33 < kanzure> so they probably have some amount disposable income
17:33 < kanzure> oh
17:33 < kanzure> so, then, no, they don't have money
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17:34 < ThomasEgi> it's not that grinders need tons of money to do research
17:34 < strangewarp> A few of them are scientists or top-tier programmers, but it's definitely a minority
17:34 < ThomasEgi> so far our crowdfunding worked out pretty well.
17:34 < kanzure> strangewarp: so zuck's a brony?
17:34 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: crowdfunding to do what
17:34 < strangewarp> kanzure: hahahaha no he's just a bro
17:34 < strangewarp> broseph*
17:35 < strangewarp> brolar ice caps
17:35 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, to raise enough money to buy the materials neccessary to turn a circuit that works on a lab-bench into a biocompatible implant
17:35 < ThomasEgi> given the rather big minimum quantities we'd have to order that sums up to about 500 dollars of initial materials
17:35 < kanzure> are you saying you already did this?
17:36 < kanzure> and if so, what's the circuit?
17:36 < kanzure> if it's an interesting circuit you could've just asked me for $500
17:36 < Eudoxia> s'warp: for every samuel conway there are a thousand, well, useless people?
17:36 < ThomasEgi> we are still working on all-purpose circuitry
17:36 < kanzure> who is "we"?
17:36 < strangewarp> Eudoxia: exactly
17:36 < ThomasEgi> such is basic input/output between eletcronics and the body.
17:37 < ThomasEgi> aswell as battery management, wireless charging and communication between implant and a base station outside the body
17:37 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, "we" grinders/biohackers
17:37 < kanzure> all of them?
17:37 < kanzure> come on, you know that's ambiguous
17:37 < ThomasEgi> not all
17:37 < kanzure> are you talking about a thing you wish you are diong, or do you have one specific person you're working with?
17:37 < ThomasEgi> most are just buns going wtih the hype
17:37 < kanzure> i don't understand
17:38 < ThomasEgi> but there are like. maybe 5 to 10 people who have enough knowledge to actually do this.
17:38 < kanzure> do you have a wireless charging circuit that you're working on, or are you saying you'd like to have that?
17:38 < ThomasEgi> we do have the charging working already
17:38 < kanzure> who is "we"
17:38 < kanzure> blah
17:38 < kanzure> you're impossible
17:38 < Eudoxia> i wonder if samuel conway is working on making real furries
17:38 < ThomasEgi> ... the circuit is on my shelf
17:38 < ThomasEgi> within arm's reach
17:38 < ThomasEgi> a friend of mine is working on another part
17:39 < kanzure> ok i see. so you think you+your friend is the entirety of biohacking? :P i'm just saying man.
17:39 < kanzure> i mean, it's good that you're doing this and i'm glad.
17:39 < ThomasEgi> yeah. sorta. yes.
17:39 < ThomasEgi> there are a few more people tho
17:39 < kanzure> i don't really appreciate the "in/out group" trend that biohack.me introduced.
17:39 < ThomasEgi> most people just want to try it out. few are capable of contributing in the design and build process.
17:39 < kanzure> i suspect you are talking about that.
17:40 < ThomasEgi> hm. what in/out group?
17:40 < kanzure> "biohackers are only the people who have signed up on this website" ignoring the wider trend of biohackers and projects out there
17:41 < ThomasEgi> nah there are more.
17:41 < ThomasEgi> not many to begin with,tho
17:41 < ThomasEgi> collaboration is difficult if you don't get word of others
17:42 < kanzure> well, upload your schematics or BOMs somewhere
17:42 < kanzure> i can provide hosting if you don't have it yet, but iirc you had a server somewhere
17:42 < ThomasEgi> indeed i do.
17:42 < ThomasEgi> atm, the designs are not finished
17:43 < ThomasEgi> and unlike other projects, i prefer to not publish something that's potentially lethal in case one component fails.
17:43 < ThomasEgi> once the circuit is final. things will be uploaded.
17:43 < kanzure> i think a generic wireless charging circuit is useful for other things
17:43 < ThomasEgi> atm there only is a tDCS design up.
17:43 < kanzure> doesn't have to be related to body implants or lethality
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17:43 < ThomasEgi> yeah but. that's really the easiest part of all
17:43 < kanzure> link?
17:43 < ThomasEgi> lemme find it
17:44 < strangewarp> Wow, that furry guy in that thread is amazing
17:44 < strangewarp> He's not interested in anything that would involve robotics or nanotech?
17:44 < strangewarp> What an asshole
17:44 < ThomasEgi> http://discuss.biohack.me/discussion/comment/1852#Comment_1852
17:45 < ThomasEgi> strangewarp, hey.. i did warn you^
17:45 < Eudoxia> I doubt Sarif Industries Furry Edition will catch on
17:46 < Eudoxia> and I doubt nanotech will get far in the next few years, the nanofactory collaboration hasn't published anything since 2008 and the DSDM is way overdue for publication, so, I sort of stopped believing in MNT
17:46 < kanzure> http://rdb.name/tdcs4.png
17:46 < ThomasEgi> that very shematic
17:47 < kanzure> http://rdb.name/tdcs5.png
17:48 < kanzure> wget http://rdb.name/tdcs{1..5}.png
17:48 < kanzure> blah what an awful way to publish schematics
17:48 < ThomasEgi> not all of those are intended for publishing
17:49 < kanzure> backup: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/tdcs/rdb/
17:49 < ThomasEgi> even this one isn't really published as the design has to undergo testing
17:49 < strangewarp> Eudoxia: I meant that he said "I am not keen on mechanical, cybernetic, implanted, animatronic or prosthetic solutions myself"
17:49 < strangewarp> That is ridiculous
17:49 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, you can delete the first 3
17:49 < Eudoxia> of course
17:49 < kanzure> eww rdb uses collada
17:49 < strangewarp> Typical furry fan though - that community has this weird veneration of the pretension to natural embodiment
17:50 < strangewarp> er, pretense*
17:50 < ThomasEgi> they are just exchanging it between some people to review
17:50 < Eudoxia> yeah, you'd think more furries would like to inhabit bodies built out of nanobots or something
17:51 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, the current design undergoes testing these days. guess once those are done. there'll be more. but even the version you see in picture 4 is ways ahead of what most people advertise as tdcs on the net.
17:52 < strangewarp> Eudoxia: Some of them do, but way fewer than you'd think
17:52 < ThomasEgi> current stabelized, current failsafe-limiter, a software fault detection, esd protection and designed in a way you can ripp it off the head befor it fries your brain in case all safequards fail.
17:52 < strangewarp> anyway aarggh, first day back on Cognizin citicoline
17:52 < kanzure> http://rdb.name/laidback_upbeat_chill.mp3
17:53 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, and.. that collada pdf you see is probably the specification of the file format. after all, he's writing code for 3d engines and collada is a popular format to exchange models and stuff.
17:53 < strangewarp> ThomasEgi: Damn.. impressive
17:54 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, you'r quite the url-inlader eh?
17:55 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: yes i'm aware of what collada is.
17:55 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: yes
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17:57 < ThomasEgi> so.. in short. rdb and me are the guys who currently spend a lot of brain in getting implants to work the way we want.
17:58 < ThomasEgi> we recently found a neat little chip that makes a lot of our life easier. as it combines battery management, wireless charging and wireless communication.
17:59 < ThomasEgi> that's on our "to-buy" list.
18:00 < ThomasEgi> aswell as breakout boards for it so we can test it on the desk.
18:01 < ThomasEgi> if you have a good recource on how to build electrically conducting silicone. that's one of the last things we are looking for.
18:02 < kanzure> i see i see.. it would have been simpler to just say rdb, since we all know him already, and we clearly know you
18:02 < kanzure> by "we" i mean "people reading this at the moment"
18:03 < ThomasEgi> yeah.. well there are.. more people.
18:03 < ThomasEgi> not many. some. a few so to say. maybe 2 or so.
18:04 < ThomasEgi> and.. some that are interested in different areas.
18:05 < ThomasEgi> i mean you know how hard it is to find skilled people.
18:06 < ThomasEgi> back in 1998 this was no problem. everyone on the net had to be smart enough to read at least a modem-manual to even go online. but these days... well. operation fuzzball. nuff said
18:07 < Eudoxia> that guy looked like he had some kind of paranoid delusion
18:07 < ThomasEgi> someone suggest him to go for president.
18:07 < ThomasEgi> or some other political job.
18:07 < strangewarp> Meh, people in that fellow's particular position tend to take half-hearted stabs at irrational projects and then give up
18:07 < strangewarp> I know from experience
18:08 < Eudoxia> "I will be keeping the development stages under wraps if possible"
18:08 < strangewarp> When I was 16, I tried to do ~things~ with transcendental meditation, and I ended up embarrassing myself so thoroughly that I realized I was completely wrong
18:08 < strangewarp> So, hopefully the embarrassment will get him before too long
18:08 < kanzure> strangewarp: "mom, does my hair look like a super saiyin's?"
18:09 < ThomasEgi> strangewarp, :D i know another example for that. don't count on it.
18:09 < Eudoxia> a lot of furries seem to have a big overlap with schizo* types of personality
18:09 < Eudoxia> "weird paranormal beliefs" check
18:09 < Eudoxia> "paranoid delusions" gun stockpiling Republican furries
18:09 < strangewarp> bwahahahah
18:10 < Eudoxia> i wonder if anyone has studied the incidence of SPD and schizophrenia in the community
18:11 < Eudoxia> "Perhaps the levels of security I have built around this will do my cause more harm than good... Perhaps talking about it this much on here already has." Oh pop a Risperidone you crazy cunt
18:11 < strangewarp> Eudoxia: If I remember one survey correctly, people who have gone into furry/otherkin are more likely to identify as body-dysmorphic - but the cause-and-effect mechanism is unclear
18:12 < Eudoxia> I thought transhumanists were the ones with the body dysmorphia?
18:12 < kanzure> no that's just natasha vita-more
18:12 < Eudoxia> why can't I hold all these mental disorders?
18:12 < kanzure> "morphological freedom" or somesuch
18:13 < Eudoxia> ah yes
18:13 < ThomasEgi> i totaly gave up on mental disorder crap. after finding that i pretty much qualify for all of them^
18:16 < strangewarp> Transhumanists idealize sterile bodiless purity! Until they start caring about the body, of course. Then they care only about the reprehensible carnal pleasures!
18:17 < Eudoxia> silly you only AIs can have true digital purity
18:18 < HighSpeed> digital purity = soap and alcohol wipes.
18:27 < strangewarp> hmmm
18:27 < strangewarp> I will just go ahead and start calling citicoline "autismium" because it turns me into Rain Man
18:27 < strangewarp> jesus
18:29 < kanzure> what do you mean?
18:29 < kanzure> lots of wheel of fortune?
18:29 < strangewarp> hahaha
18:29 < strangewarp> ultra-focused, but it feels like the focus is distributed to pointless things
18:30 < Eudoxia> there's probably another pill for that
18:30 < kanzure> strangewarp: maybe you should pick a thing to do
18:30 < strangewarp> Eudoxia: maybe :s
18:31 < strangewarp> kanzure: good idea, hm
18:31 < Eudoxia> you could hire someone to whip you every time you look away from the text editor
18:31 < Eudoxia> i totally should do that as well
18:31 < kanzure> that's the spirit, Eudoxia
18:31  * strangewarp shrugs, opens up a big Pd/Lua project that needs finished
18:32 < ThomasEgi> if that stuff really works like autism.. you'd hardly even notice the whipping
18:32 < strangewarp> Eudoxia: I try not to force myself to do things too severely, ever since I had a nervous breakdown caused by too much of such an attitude
18:32 < strangewarp> ThomasEgi: Point. Maybe the comparison isn't very strong, hm
18:33 < ThomasEgi> does sound a bit like it tho.
18:34 < Eudoxia> there may be some medication for that strangewarp
18:35 < strangewarp> Yeah, like.. Adderall? something
18:35 < Eudoxia> for nervous breakdowns
18:35 < strangewarp> oh pff
18:38 < Eudoxia> in the long term, though, one may end up liking the whipping, so some other strategy may be needed
18:39 < ThomasEgi> .. hehe. that's not even unlikely
18:39 < strangewarp> Plaster every surface that is not the computer screen with pictures of YO MOTHAH's many decades of depraved sexual escapades, obviously
18:40 < ThomasEgi> .. i guess plastering them with textbooks would help better to not get distracted by the beauty of empty walls
18:40 < ThomasEgi> either you like and learn them. or you ignore them an you can focus on what you want to do
18:40 < Eudoxia> if the textbooks have good covers you could get distracted contemplating them
18:41 < strangewarp> I got so tired of staring at a blank wall that I've overcome the dislike for painting that was drilled into me by art school...
18:42 < strangewarp> Not finished yet; ought to add a layer
18:42 < Eudoxia> do soul-crushing blank walls correlate with greater productivity than colorful walls?
18:43 < ThomasEgi> no idea. bit even blank walls can be interesting. given they have a slight structire
18:43 < ThomasEgi> *bit = but
18:44 < Eudoxia> maybe you should make the room look like a Swiss patent office
18:44 < Eudoxia> thought i only one have data point to support that
18:44 < strangewarp> hahahahah
18:44 < ThomasEgi> those acustic-dampening ceilings are even more mesmerizing. i can stare at them four hours finding repetive patterns in the holes
18:45 < nsh> there shouldn't be any
18:45 < ThomasEgi> einstein?
18:45 < nsh> we can have some einstein
18:46 < nsh> but repeating patterns in the ceiling are to be avoided
18:46 < sylph_mako> For reference http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2b/Einsteinhausberne.jpg
18:46 < Eudoxia> yes einstein
18:46 < sylph_mako> I don't know how he got any work done with that tablecloth.
18:46 < Eudoxia> hahahahha
18:46 < ThomasEgi> still better than those floor-tile-tables
18:47 < Eudoxia> that's a lot less soul-crushing than i expected
18:48 < Eudoxia> it's even got portraits on the wall
18:48 < Eudoxia> replace those with an Afremov and I could code
18:48 < Eudoxia> FOREVER
18:49 < sylph_mako> I'm pretty sure there's no amount of distractions you can remove that will make lead you to focus better than passion.
18:49 < sylph_mako> Someone had to say it.
18:49 < strangewarp> I want... a big, spartan workspace, with big brainy blcky paintings on the walls
18:50 < strangewarp> blocky*
18:50 < ThomasEgi> hear hear.
18:50 < ThomasEgi> what i _don't_ want... is that traffic on the road in front of my window... as it forces me to work at night.
18:51 < ThomasEgi> meh. i want my undegrount village already.
18:51 < Eudoxia> underground? why not... underwater!
18:52 < ThomasEgi> because underwater ceilings are more expensive.
18:52 < strangewarp> I have put serious thought into taking out massive student loans to finish my BFA, trying to snag an internship, and inuring myself face-first to the rapacious barbarians of the fine-arts consumption class... solely to eventually have a decent modernist workspace
18:52 < ThomasEgi> i can't afford them.
18:52 < kanzure> strangewarp: why do you need massive loans to take an internship?
18:52 < strangewarp> kanzure: because the arts are stupid
18:53 < kanzure> um.
18:53 < strangewarp> student loans -> finish degree -> get internship, basically
18:53 < ThomasEgi> strangewarp, just put some pots of colors in a room and put big firecrackers inside? and you are an artist.
18:53 < ThomasEgi> then pretend you get killed in a tragic way. which will increase the price on your images.
18:54 < strangewarp> heh, I wish :p
18:54 < strangewarp> er, the former, not the latter :p
18:54 < sylph_mako> ThomasEgi, heard of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derinkuyu_Underground_City ?
18:54 < ThomasEgi> also pretend to be your own , and last living relative so you actually get all themoney
18:54 < kanzure> strangewarp: um, most people choose an internship first
18:55 < strangewarp> kanzure: Arts internships are only available to people who are either actively pursuing a degree, or newly possessing a degree
18:55 < strangewarp> Solely because there's so much competition for them
18:55 < ThomasEgi> sylph_mako, not yet. interesting article. tho i planned to start with less than 20k people..
18:56 < kanzure> strangewarp: sounds like a silly thing to pursue then.
18:56 < strangewarp> kanzure: That's why I've /only/ been tempted, and never decided to do it :p
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19:06 < kanzure> why is my file storage api written by open knowledge foundation and rufus pollack? https://github.com/okfn/ofs
19:10 < kanzure> http://archive.org/help/abouts3.txt "using the archive's S3 like server API" what?
19:12 < nsh> can i buy another clue?
19:12 < kanzure> i'm just very confused at the moment. all i wanted was a python library for switching out file storage backends. i don't want to have to write something to deal with using local filesystem stuff or s3 stuff.
19:13 < kanzure> but there doesn't seem to be anything that does this, except ofs and shove, both of which seem to not be used by anyone
19:13 < kanzure> and ofs is made by open knowledge foundation (the guys who run the open-science group in the uk)
19:14 < kanzure> it looks like django has a nice "plug-and-play" file storage backend api thing, but why doesn't this exist outside of django in the python world?
19:20 < nsh> good enough question
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20:12 < kanzure> wb brownies
20:12 < brownies> hello
20:13 < brownies> tried to reset sleep schedule... fell asleep at 4pm.
20:14 < ThomasEgi> past 5am here, about to fall asleep
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20:18 < brownies> oh, whoa, it's a 3day weekend?
20:19 < strangewarp> 9:20 PM.. about to go to bed. Unusual for me, since I have the stupidest sleep disorder ever
20:20 < strangewarp> From my previous short experience with citicoline, it appeared to be normalizing my sleep disorder, but that might have been staistical noise
20:21 < strangewarp> Nawgan drinks were on sale in town, and I've got a shipment of citicoline / alpha-GPC coming in a couple days, so bwa ha ha
20:21 < brownies> no luck with the usual methods for normalizing your sleep schedule?
20:21 < strangewarp> Melatonin: gave me bad dreams and man-tits and made me sleepy all day
20:21 < strangewarp> Prescription sleeping pills: didn't work
20:22 < strangewarp> Alarms: kept me off-kilter until I succumbed to napping, and the naps would last 10 hours
20:22 < strangewarp> Polyphasic sleep: ahahahahaha
20:22 < brownies> polyphasic sleep is... actually, yeah, your summary is spot-on.
20:23 < brownies> strangewarp: how about fiddling with timing of blue light intake?
20:23 < strangewarp> brownies: I'm going to look into buying a nice blue light if the citicoline doesn't normalize my sleep, yeah
20:24 < brownies> word
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20:33 < kanzure> "Like
20:33 < kanzure> Be the first to like this pull request."
20:33 < kanzure> wtf bitbucket :\
20:35 < kanzure> so i fixed one typo and for some reason the changeset shows >10 commits?
20:35 < kanzure> https://bitbucket.org/lcrees/shove/pull-request/8/fix-typo-in-dbstore-docstring
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20:57 < kanzure> blargh x1000
20:57 < kanzure> that "simple file storage engine" thing for python (shove) turns out to use pickle
20:57 < kanzure> to write files :(
21:07 < kanzure> and every time you render the url with ofs, it sends a call to s3 involving "bucket.set_canned_acl(acl_str, self.name, headers)" on that file? why would you need that to figure out a url?
21:10 < kanzure> oh i see, it's a one-time use url.
21:10 < kanzure> that makes slightly more sense.
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21:50 < jrayhawk> ha ha your insistence upon using distributed storage for centralized querying brings you the level of pain you deserve
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23:49 < archels> http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8lgtqKK0F1rs37pho1_500.jpg
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--- Log closed Sun Sep 02 00:00:14 2012