--- Log opened Thu Sep 06 00:00:18 2012
00:10 -!- Helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-101-208-182.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:28 -!- tashoutang [~tata@pc131090206.ntunhs.edu.tw] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:35 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:37 -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-67-111-237.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:30 -!- joshcryer [g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
01:43 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@213.37.172.235.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:04 -!- AdrianG [~dextro@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
02:04 -!- tashoutang [~tata@pc131090206.ntunhs.edu.tw] has quit []
02:27 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
02:37 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:44 -!- Vicarious [diepfriet@CAcert/Vicarious] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:44 -!- Vicarious [diepfriet@CAcert/Vicarious] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:54 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:57 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr.inka-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:57 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr.inka-online.net] has quit [Changing host]
03:57 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:57 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
03:59 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:00 -!- HighSpeed [~dextro@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:52 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-197-210.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
07:20 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:51 < kanzure> brownies: what was wrong with knockout.js when you tried it?
07:53 < chris_99> http://prometheusfusionperfection.com/
08:06 < archels> http://filer.case.edu/dts8/thelastq.htm
08:06 < archels> oh man, very thought-provoking story, but what a shitty ending.
08:17 < archels> Did anyone ever make it through Tipler's book?
08:17 < archels> Have it on my shelf, never read it fully, not sure what to think of it.
08:27 < kanzure> eat it
08:31 < chris_99> i got molecular biology of the cell today :)
08:47 < chris_99> apparently this works great for SMD work - http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Search/searchTerms/TOAST+OVEN.htm
09:01 -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:06 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:10 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:14 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
09:17 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:36 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-71-236-101-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:41 < archels> Jesus fucking Christ, why would *anyone* use MatLab?
09:41 < archels> Why am I using it, for that matter? :(
09:42 < Urchin> it is a bit archaic
09:42 < Urchin> large codebase though
09:42 < archels> You would think the shitty performance, unresponsive GUI and shitty memory mangement might be offset by great debugging capabilities...
09:42 < archels> but no.
09:43  * archels would be doing this in Python if there wasn't so much existing code to port
09:44 < Urchin> like I said, large codebase
09:45 < Urchin> I was never fond of python for some reason
09:45 < Urchin> not really sure why
09:45 < chris_99> what do you use Urchin
09:45 < Urchin> not much lately
09:46 < Urchin> I did most of my stuff in C
09:46 < Urchin> some Fortran 90
09:46 < archels> C is beyond any form of criticism
09:46 < Urchin> lisp to set up emacs
09:47 < Urchin> C is great if you know what you're doing
09:47 < chris_99> C is pretty awesome
09:48 < kanzure> archels: what code is there to port?
09:49 < chris_99> you could compile it to C archels and use that ;)
09:50 < archels> kanzure, it's not worth doing it at this point in the project. I'll just have to live with these minor annoyances...
09:51 < kanzure> you could write a wrapper in python
09:51 < kanzure> and it sends everything off to matlab
09:51 < kanzure> and then it spits out the result to you
09:51 < archels> yes, I did that once, for something else
09:52 < archels> I guess it avoids the GUI... but it's a little silly.
09:52 < archels> Doesn't really solve anything.
09:52 < kanzure> http://diyspartanbiotech.wordpress.com/2012/05/11/transforming-e-coli-with-pvib-plasmid/
09:54 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.184.205] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:02 -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:16 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.184.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:17 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.184.205] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:20 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr2.inka-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:20 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr2.inka-online.net] has quit [Changing host]
10:20 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:45 < kanzure> "I believe a critical component of igem technology revolves around t-shirt design skills."
10:54 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
10:58 < brownies> kanzure: hmmmm
10:59 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@ool-45792f2b.dyn.optonline.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:59 < brownies> kanzure: oh, right, knockout is the one with the data-bindings and the magic auto-updating
10:59 < brownies> kanzure: yeah, it's just too damn magical
11:00 < brownies> it sounds nice, but you basically end up jumping through all these hoops just so you don't have to call (e.g. like you would in backbone) myView.render()
11:02 < kanzure> so it's the views that you hated?
11:02 < kanzure> was meteor the one with the weird event propagation?
11:04 -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:07 < brownies> given that knockout is a view/template library, yes, that seems fair -_-
11:08 < brownies> meteor is the dumb one that tries to have even more magic by automatically writing changes to teh server
11:08 < kanzure> brownies: apparently hittail.com will write articles for you to match the keyboards you've found through them
11:08 < kanzure> i think it's hilarious, but it makes sense because that's what you'd probably pay someone to do after you use them anyway..
11:08 < brownies> kanzure: not unreasonable
11:08 < brownies> yeah, exactly
11:12 -!- nsh [nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
11:21 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
11:28 < kanzure> nmz787: so i'm looking at benchling..
11:28 < kanzure> its tagline is "GitHub of Biology" ... :/
11:29 < kanzure> i doubt they even implement git
11:29 < kanzure> "Scientists build with DNA, just like programmers do with code. Major biotech companies account for 2% of the US GDP. Despite this value, there is no version control in life science."
11:29 < kanzure> oh wait they actually say version control. maybe they do really mean git.
11:31 < kanzure> hrmm. https://benchling.com/beta/ "Annotations, BLAST, plasmid maps, primer design, and more without leaving your browser." ok this just sounds like connor's thing..
11:31 < kanzure> i don't know how they expect to implement git in a browser. maybe they're using git.js?
11:31 < kanzure> to be fair i'm probably the trifecta of their worst possible customer (someone who understands version control and plasmids and is critical of both)
11:35 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:35 < nmz787> lol
11:38 -!- amphetamine [~dextro@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:38 -!- amphetamine is now known as AdrienG
11:39 -!- HighSpeed [~dextro@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has quit [Quit: HighSpeed]
11:39 -!- HighSpeed [~ircname@CPEbcaec5a734bc-CM001bd713703a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:39 -!- jmil_ [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:40 -!- HighSpeed is now known as Guest4203
11:40 -!- Guest4203 is now known as amphetamine
11:40 -!- amphetamine [~ircname@CPEbcaec5a734bc-CM001bd713703a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Changing host]
11:40 -!- amphetamine [~ircname@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:41 -!- amphetamine [~ircname@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has quit [Client Quit]
11:41 -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
11:41 -!- jmil_ is now known as jmil
11:44 -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has quit [Client Quit]
12:03 -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:09 < delinquentme> Oh shart.
12:10 < delinquentme> jmil, I just emailed one of your guys there at hive 76
12:10 < kanzure> which one of hive76's guys is jmil's guy?
12:10 < delinquentme> tell Chris Thompson i said " HOWDAR "
12:10 < jmil> delinquentme: nice. what about?
12:11 < delinquentme> someone there is building a lasersaur
12:11 < delinquentme> So I had emailed about sourcing parts
12:11 < delinquentme> buy from OSH owners == support OSH
12:18 < chris_99> how much does it cost to build one delinquentme
12:19 < delinquentme> i dont remember the number
12:30 < chris_99> http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur/bom-zero-suppliers-eur
12:30 < chris_99> http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur/bom-zero-suppliers-usd
12:33 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-71-236-101-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
12:34 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@82.159.57.41.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:34 < chris_99> this stuff is interesting http://www.fibrephotonics.com/page/143/High-Power-Polycrystalline-Infrared-HP-PIR-.htm
12:40 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-197-210.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:43 < nmz787> hmm, that fiber is cool
12:44 < chris_99> attach that to a RepRap and your CO2 laser, bish-bash-bosh ;)
12:44 < chris_99> actually it'd be cheaper to buy a chinese laser cutter
12:51 < chris_99> the laser they use in the BOM is v. expensive
12:51 < chris_99> £1000
12:53 < nmz787> how many watts
12:54 < chris_99> just 100
12:54 < chris_99> i think you can get them on fleabay for £200 or so
12:54 < chris_99> but they may not be the same quality i guess
12:57 < chris_99> oh i stand corrected
12:57 < chris_99> they're more like £500
13:41 -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
13:45 -!- kingjaco_ [~kingjacob@cerberus.stthom.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:47 -!- kingjaco_ is now known as kingjacob_
13:53 -!- kingjacob_ is now known as jacobshiach_
13:54 -!- jacobshiach_ is now known as kingjacob_
13:55 -!- kingjacob_ is now known as jacobshiach_
13:57 -!- jacobshiach_ is now known as nick
13:57 -!- nick is now known as jacob
13:58 -!- jacob is now known as kingjacob_
13:58 < kanzure> kingjacob_: having some trouble? :P
13:58 < Mariu> =]
14:03 -!- kingjacob_ [~kingjacob@cerberus.stthom.edu] has left ##hplusroadmap []
14:05 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@82.159.57.41.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:08 -!- kingjacob [~kingjacob@cerberus.stthom.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:10 -!- kingjacob [~kingjacob@cerberus.stthom.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:11 -!- loanshark [~loanshark@ip72-218-125-108.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:14 < chris_99> nmz787, did you see that spectrino thing btw
14:15 < loanshark> hurro
14:15 < chris_99> hello
14:15 < loanshark> :3
14:16 < chris_99> read any books recently loanshark?
14:16 < chris_99> i just got the cell book :)
14:17 < loanshark> chris_99: i have been incredibly busy at work so no
14:18 < loanshark> my Kindle does not read PDF's otherwise i would be reading text books, but alas i do not have 50-60 dollars to spend on a textbook in the amazon store.
14:18 < chris_99> weird, thought the kindle supported pdfs
14:18 < loanshark> currently reading a book on basic economics - have to decide what college courses I will take next semester
14:19 < loanshark> chris_99: i have an older kindle
14:19 < chris_99> ah darn
14:19 < Mariu> get a Samsung Galaxy pad
14:19 < chris_99> that's not eink though is it
14:20 < loanshark> uhh
14:20 < loanshark> O.o $510
14:20 < loanshark> my kindle is eink
14:20 < chris_99> yeah that's why i like the idea of the kindle
14:21 < chris_99> http://www.solidoodle.com/ seems pretty cool, not open source though afaik
14:21 < loanshark> $99 is hard to beat xD who needs color when all you are reading is books?
14:21 < loanshark> although colorful diagrams in textbooks are helpful
14:22 < chris_99> yeah colour eink will be sweet
14:22 < loanshark> chris_99: is that possible?
14:23 < chris_99> yeah theres been prototypes
14:23 < loanshark> http://www.eink.com/display_products_triton.html
14:25 < loanshark> you can buy the jet book, which has tritons imaging film - essentially color sink, but its $500
14:27 < chris_99> sounds interesting
14:28 < loanshark> 10,000 page turns on a single charge
14:28 < loanshark> XD
14:28 < loanshark> its worth the money i guess, but i bet in a year or two it will be $100
14:29 < chris_99> yeah
14:32 < strangewarp> First day on a noopept/citicoline/alpha-GPC cocktail.
14:32 < strangewarp> Very distinct improvement.
14:34 < loanshark> strangewarp: whats that?
14:34 < strangewarp> nootropics, natch
14:35 < loanshark> improves… brain?
14:35 < loanshark> xD
14:35 < strangewarp> Noopept is an ultra-potent relative of piracetam; citicoline is another sort of nootropic that's new and patented; alpha-GPC is a form of choline that allows for more efficient absorption than choline citrate or CDP-choline.
14:35 < strangewarp> In general, nootropics improve mental abilities, and mood.
14:35 -!- AdrienG is now known as HighSpeed
14:35 -!- kjmneel [84ef3233@gateway/web/freenode/ip.132.239.50.51] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:35 -!- kjmneel [84ef3233@gateway/web/freenode/ip.132.239.50.51] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
14:36 < loanshark> interesting. what do you notice is different?
14:38 < HighSpeed> so um
14:38 < HighSpeed> guiz
14:38 < HighSpeed> we have a nootropic chat here on freenode
14:38 < HighSpeed> #reddit-nootropics
14:39 < loanshark> cool
14:40 < strangewarp> meh, reddit...
14:40 < HighSpeed> why? its pretty good
14:40 < HighSpeed> the premier BLTC freenode chat
14:42 < strangewarp> loanshark: I'm feeling very calm and focused, and self-confident, which is very different from how I usually am
14:42 < strangewarp> We'll see how it affects my productivity..
14:43 < loanshark> interesting
14:43 < loanshark> I am on anti-depressants… would this have adverse affects with nootropics?
14:43 < strangewarp> Maybe. I am not a doctor
14:45 < loanshark> ok
14:47 -!- drazak_ [~ahdfadkfa@199.188.72.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
14:51 -!- drazak_ [~ahdfadkfa@199.188.72.84] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:12 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@8.225.201.5] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:16 < sylph_mako> HighSpeed, why is it named after reddit? It's not reddit. It's an IRC channel.
15:17 < sylph_mako> If you think the imported redditers will confer some special property, I think you'll be disappointed.
15:17 < archels> drama?
15:17  * archels runs
15:18 < Mariu> =]
15:19  * sylph_mako sprays anti-hysteria aerosol in archels' wake.
15:20 < HighSpeed> sylph_mako: nah i dont even go on reddit lol
15:20 < HighSpeed> just happens to be a nootropics chat
15:21 < Urchin> probably started by redditers, so why not?
15:21 < Mokbortolan_1> huh what?
15:21 < Mokbortolan_1> yeah, I run that room
15:22 < sylph_mako> so why the name.
15:22 < Urchin> imminst's nootropics forums were good last time I've checked
15:22 < Mokbortolan_1> it's officially associated with /r/nootropics
15:22 < Mokbortolan_1> there's a link on the sidebar
15:26 -!- kingjacob [~kingjacob@cerberus.stthom.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:39 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@ool-45792f2b.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
15:43 -!- augur [~augur@206.196.184.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:55 -!- augur [~augur@wireless-206-196-161-123.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:55 -!- augur [~augur@wireless-206-196-161-123.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:57 -!- augur [~augur@wireless-206-196-161-123.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:05 -!- augur [~augur@wireless-206-196-161-123.umd.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
16:11 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@8.225.201.5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:25 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-197-210.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
16:27 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:34 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:34 -!- kingjacob [~kingjacob@cerberus.stthom.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:42 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@122.123.252.27.dyn.cust.vf.net.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:20 -!- tashoutang [~tata@pc131090206.ntunhs.edu.tw] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:37 -!- tashoutang [~tata@pc131090206.ntunhs.edu.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
17:47 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@ool-45792f2b.dyn.optonline.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:08 -!- tashoutang [~tata@pc131090206.ntunhs.edu.tw] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:13 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:19 < kanzure> i need a machine to be invented that punches programmers in the face every time they try to vaildate an email address with a regular expression
18:26 -!- wizaqua [~usorid@c-76-23-254-105.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: hey everybody - the candyman is here]
18:28 < ThomasEgi> the famous "punch people over tcp ip"?
18:29 < kanzure> is that a feature? i haven't checked the standards.
18:30 < ParahSailin_> im sure regex _could_ validate email addresses
18:31 < kanzure> ParahSailin_: there's this super-long regular expression that jrayhawk likes to link to that is supposed to be correct
18:31 < kanzure> but it's a few hundred kilobytes i think
18:31 < ParahSailin_> yeah, there's a similar huge regex for html
18:31 < kanzure> don't do it
18:31 < kanzure> or else i will tcpunch yuo
18:31 < ParahSailin_> its pretty much write-only
18:33 < ParahSailin_> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2822#section-3.4.1
18:34 < kanzure> ParahSailin_: what would make biologists hate computers less?
18:34 < ParahSailin_> hard ai?
18:35 -!- upgrayeddd [u2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aowvcrysuljacxbs] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
18:36 < kanzure> well, it's odd because they certainly don't lack dedication or attention.. if they can spend hours reading a paper, they can spend a few minutes figuring out a website or something
18:37 < kanzure> hm https://github.com/cathalgarvey/biohacking-protocols
18:37 < kanzure> "cathalgarvey authored 10 hours ago"
18:37 < kanzure> "Low-overhead, highly explicit protocols in Markdown format for Biohacking"
18:38 < jrayhawk> i think scientists are explorers and resent being constrained to a problemspace
18:38 < jrayhawk> they like finding new problemspaces
18:39 < kanzure> streety: you sound like the sort of person who would be able to tell me a reference to someone who has studied this
18:39 < jrayhawk> the web is made by a phycisist
18:39 < jrayhawk> it shows
18:39 < jrayhawk> physicist
18:39 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i want to include https://github.com/cathalgarvey/biohacking-protocols stuff in diyhpluswiki.git
18:40 < kanzure> will a submodule render with ikiwiki?
18:40 < streety> reference for what?
18:40 < kanzure> streety: someone who has studied the general hatred biologists harbor for computers
18:41 < jrayhawk> no, no useful or interesting integration with submodules has been done
18:42 < streety> lol, I'm not sure I've seen that phenomenon but then I've spent most of my time on the more chemical side of biology
18:42 < jrayhawk> we can do some hacks to make it work as a submodule, but it'd probably be easier to just have it as a separate repository
18:44 < kanzure> jrayhawk: okay.
18:44 -!- Thorbinator [~Thorbinat@76-14-130-152.rk.wavecable.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
18:45 -!- Thorbinator [~Thorbinat@76-14-130-152.rk.wavecable.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:46 < kanzure> remote: skipping bad filename E.coli Transformation With PEG+MgSO4.md
18:46 < kanzure> jrayhawk: doh.. spaces in filenames.
18:46 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cathal-biohacking-protocols/E.coli%20Transformation%20With%20PEG%20MgSO4
18:55 < jrayhawk> echo '$conf->{"wiki_file_chars"} = "-[:alnum:]+/.:_ "' > /etc/ikiwiki/piny/cathal-biohacking-protocols.setup.pl; rebuildrepo cathal-biohacking-protocols
19:02 < nmz787> kanzure: is the share alike thing good?
19:03 < kanzure> yes
19:05 < nmz787> anyone use this http://windows.github.com/
19:08 < kanzure> no.
19:12 < nmz787> kanzure: wasn't asking /you/
19:12 < nmz787> :P
19:15 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:28 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@ool-45792f2b.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:28 -!- nsh [~nsh@2001:0:5ef5:79fd:b3:344:a976:5f37] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:48 -!- nsh [~nsh@2001:0:5ef5:79fd:b3:344:a976:5f37] has quit [Changing host]
19:48 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:49 -!- kingjacob [~kingjacob@c-76-31-79-117.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:54 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@ool-45792f2b.dyn.optonline.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:01 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:16 -!- ParahSailin_ [~parah@adsl-69-151-147-224.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20:18 -!- nsh- [~nsh@2001:0:5ef5:79fb:3060:3f63:a976:5f37] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:21 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20:27 -!- ParahSailin_ [~parah@adsl-69-151-153-221.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:44 -!- ParahSailin_ [~parah@adsl-69-151-153-221.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
20:53 -!- ParahSailin_ [~parah@adsl-69-151-157-242.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:16 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:31 < nmz787> this looks interesting http://www.horizonsnyc.org/site/speakers/
21:32 < kanzure> kingjacob: hi
21:32 < nmz787> i've actually thought that you should be able to RF tune a designer psychedelic-type molecule to feed video in and get neural output out
21:32 < nmz787> eliminating through-skin ports
21:33 < nmz787> since it seems psychedelics already hit the sensory and a/v parts of the brain
21:39 < kingjacob> I could see building a RF activated psychedelic being possible
21:40 < kingjacob> any ideas how you'd get more than a bit through?
21:41 < nmz787> I've got a ton of PDFs on radio waves and their molecular action... but mostly it says molecules rotate and cause heating
21:41 < kanzure> how about a magneto-optical receptor switch thing
21:42 < nmz787> I think kanzure would have some ideas about spatial resolution in bit banging gadgets that exist
21:42 < nmz787> isn't there some way to use 2 beams?
21:42 < nmz787> or maybe you'd need a mix of different molecules
21:42 < kanzure> well, you can use a phased array of multiple beams if you want the effect to be additive at some location
21:43 < nmz787> each type representing a different freq channel
21:43  * kanzure is bullshitting
21:43 < kanzure> nmz787: you're familiar with anselm's work right?
21:43 < nmz787> and each targeting a different visual neuron type
21:43 < nmz787> no
21:43 < kanzure> like http://anselmlevskaya.com/publications/Nature%202009%20Levskaya.pdf
21:45 -!- tashoutang [~tata@pc131090206.ntunhs.edu.tw] has quit []
21:46 < nmz787> kanzure: but optical/freqs that high don't penetrate the body very well
21:46 < kanzure> i think he had mice with physical glass windows in the skull
21:46 < nmz787> other than the pit viper IR detectors, there isn't any receptor with lower freq sensitivity
21:46 < kanzure> (because fuck skulls)
21:47 < nmz787> heh
21:47 < nmz787> yeah
21:47 < nmz787> i can't do that to myself
21:49 < nmz787> yeah I tried finding info on other freqs when I was all gung-ho about finding some proof of telelpathy type stuff
21:50 < nmz787> but I really didn't find anything below light and heat IR
21:50 < nmz787> ears don't count because its physical waves, not EM
21:50 -!- loanshark [~loanshark@ip72-218-125-108.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Quit: loanshark]
21:50 < kingjacob> you wouldn't need to do an implant
21:51 < kingjacob> just pair it with a system on the surface
21:51 < nmz787> right
21:51 < nmz787> but how to get spatial respones from the nerve bundle
21:51 < nmz787> say we know the drug is there, around all the cells
21:51 < nmz787> kanzure: wtf are phased arrays
21:52 < kanzure> "We have determined that the best way to implement telepathy is to strap a 2.9 GeV particle accelerator to your head. Naturally, you can't ever move, but you do get electrons blasted into your brain which is pretty cool. Also deadly."
21:52 < kanzure> oh i just meant for stimulation
21:52 < kanzure> like http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/ultrasound/500-element%20ultrasound%20phased%20array%20system%20for%20noninvasive%20focal%20surgery%20of%20the%20brain%20-%20A%20preliminary%20rabbit%20study%20with%20ex%20vivo%20human%20skulls.pdf
21:53 < kanzure> photo is on page 2
21:53 < nsh-> so
21:54 < nsh-> at the risk of one or more of us sounding stupid
21:54 < nmz787> I wish we lived in an era where people could still sell good cure-alls
21:54 < nmz787> this seems appropriate http://www.springerlink.com/content/v2175688r1w4862x/fulltext.pdf
21:54 < nsh-> isn't there already a pretty tried and tested method of getting data from optical wavelengths into the brain?
21:54 < nsh-> with reasonably high bandwidth
21:54 < nsh-> why do people think they're achiving something miraculous by bypassing sensory organs?
21:54 < nsh-> that's pretty ridiculous way of going about augmentation
21:55 < nmz787> well the eyes are for input, but you can't output
21:55 < nsh-> sure you can
21:55 < nsh-> have you ever looked someone in the eyes?
21:55 < nmz787> sure
21:55 < nsh-> the entire region around them acts as pretty good transmitter
21:55 < nmz787> I
21:55 < nmz787> I
21:56 < nmz787> I'd rather have neural to electrical adapter
21:56 < nmz787> or electronic
21:57 < nsh-> that's because you think silicon is advanced technology
21:57 < nmz787> well no, I just think faster than i can move my muscles
21:58 < nsh-> prove it
21:58 < nmz787> so my output is pretty limited
21:58 < nmz787> not sure how to do that, since you can't hear my thoughts
21:59 -!- loanshark [~loanshark@ip72-218-125-108.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:59 < kingjacob> it took me less than a second to think up this sentence but almost 10 seconds to type it
21:59 < nsh-> sure, there's a bottle neck
21:59 < nsh-> but are you sure about the veracity of the timeline?
22:00 < nmz787> what do you mean?
22:00 < nsh-> you percieve the creation of the sentence as being instantaneous, almost
22:00 < nsh-> but is that necessary an accurate reflection of internal process, or a presentation layer to consciousness?
22:00 < nsh-> i don't doubt that we think quicker than we can talk/type
22:00 < nsh-> but the thought evolves as we do so
22:00 < nmz787> i've heard some people don't have an internal monologue
22:01 < nmz787> but some do
22:01 < nmz787> if that means anything
22:01  * nsh- doesn't percieve a monologue
22:01 < nsh-> i am only aware of words when working with them
22:01  * Mokbortolan_1 takes a shot of jaegeracetam.
22:02 < nmz787> sure it evolves as we do, but maybe if I had faster I/O I would learn to hold my tongue, so to speak, before outputting
22:02 < nmz787> i often have music looping in my head
22:02 < nmz787> it used to get quite annoying as a kid, i remember
22:02 < nmz787> but not so much anymore
22:03 < strangewarp> I've always had a pretty powerful internal monologue; when I was a child I had to work for a few years to suppress the urge to whisper it to myself. Nowadays it alternates between subvocalization and regular thoughts
22:05 < nmz787> I have monologues about some things, but it isn't necessary for all actions
22:05 < nmz787> like painting for instance, i wouldn't tell myself 'up, down, up, down'
22:05 < nmz787> but for counting money, i would be like '20, 40, 60, 80, 100, and 50 cents', etc...
22:06 < strangewarp> Well yeah, painting is the interaction of physical objects, so it would be a second-order command if you were saying the names of directions to yourself...
22:07 -!- tashoutang [~tata@pc131090206.ntunhs.edu.tw] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:08 < kanzure> kingjacob: maybe it takes you too long to type things because you're slow?
22:08 < kanzure> www.seanwrona.com/typeracer/profile.php?username=kanzure
22:08 < kanzure> erm.. i meant http://www.seanwrona.com/typeracer/profile.php?username=kanzure
22:09 < kingjacob> kanzure: that's probably 10% of it
22:09 < nmz787> kanzure: why waste the ATP on muscle contractions though?
22:09 < nmz787> and then you get typers wrist or whatever that is
22:10 < kanzure> nmz787: because i don't have anything else working
22:10 < nmz787> but do you want better?
22:10 < kanzure> of course
22:13 < nmz787> actually i think the permittance changes with EM frequency
22:13 < nmz787> if so, maybe you just need to adjust the frequency to get depth
22:14 < kingjacob> do yall remember the name of th paper where they got video out of the brain?
22:15 < kanzure> kingjacob: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/Reconstruction%20of%20natural%20scenes%20from%20ensemble%20responses%20in%20cat%20visual%20cortex%20-%20Stanley%20-%201999.pdf
22:19 < nmz787> 1999
22:19 < nmz787> I saw something recently
22:19 < brownies> are you multilingual nmz787 ?
22:20 < nmz787> a bit
22:20 < nmz787> I picked up Thai pretty quickly, grammar was bashed horribly but I knew numbers and foods well, directions... and started picking up the symbols too
22:21 < nmz787> my girlfriend speaks bengali and hindi and I've been hanging around indians for about 4 years
22:21 < kanzure> i am also skilled in the binary language of moisture vaporators
22:21 -!- nsh [~nsh@2001:0:5ef5:79fd:3c08:3f95:925c:16f2] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:21 < nmz787> kanzure: so how many electrodes in that paper?
22:22 < kanzure> they probably used a utah array of <100 electrodes
22:22 < nmz787> looks like 7
22:22 < nmz787> Neighboring geniculate cells were recorded with a multielectrode array
22:22 < nmz787> (Eckhorn and Thomas, 1993). The array allows seven fiber electrodes to
22:22 < nmz787> be positioned independently with a vertical accuracy of 1 mm. We used a
22:22 < nmz787> glass guide tube to restrict the lateral scattering of the electrodes in the
22:22 < nmz787> array. The inner diameter at the tip of the guide tube was ,400 mm. All
22:22 < nmz787> recordings were made in layer A or A1 of the LGN.
22:22 < nmz787> Recorded signals were amplified, filtered, and passed to a personal
22:22 < nmz787> computer (PC) running Datawave (Broomfield, CO) Discovery software.
22:22 < nmz787> The system accepts inputs from up to eight single electrodes. Up to eight
22:22 < nmz787> different waveforms can be discriminated on a single electrode, but two
22:22 < nmz787> or three is a more realistic limit. The waveforms were saved on disk.
22:22 < nmz787> Spike isolation was based on cluster analysis of waveforms, and the
22:23 < nmz787> Neighboring geniculate cells were recorded with a multielectrode array (Eckhorn and Thomas, 1993). The array allows seven fiber electrodes to be positioned independently with a vertical accuracy of 1 mm. We used a glass guide tube to restrict the lateral scattering of the electrodes in the array. The inner diameter at the tip of the guide tube was ,400 mm. All recordings were made in layer A or A1 of the LGN. Recorded signals were amp
22:23 < nmz787> fractory period, which is reflected in the shape of
22:23 < nmz787> autocorrelations
22:24 < nmz787> kanzure: do you understand the coding they talk about?
22:24 < nmz787> or de-coding?
22:24 < kanzure> uh, i've done some basic neural ensemble coding software stuff
22:24 -!- nsh- [~nsh@2001:0:5ef5:79fb:3060:3f63:a976:5f37] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
22:24 < kanzure> the visual system is pretty well understood at this point
22:24 < nmz787> so it looks like they moved the fiber with the 7 channels around
22:25 < nmz787> to sample abou 177 cells
22:25 < nmz787> so I guess they sortof did a sweep
22:25 < kanzure> yeah i guess they replayed the video multiple times
22:25 < kanzure> and just sampled at different times
22:25 < nmz787> so can you tell an idiot what the visual protocol is?
22:25 < kingjacob> here's the more recent one http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822%2811%2900937-7
22:26 < kanzure> no there's lots of different encoding things going on
22:26 < kanzure> topographica is some open source software to simulate some of it
22:28 < nmz787> here's a good review http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/biological%20radio%20research/Quantitative%20Evaluations%20of%20Mechanisms%20of%20Radiofrequency%20Interactions%20With%20Biological%20Molecules%20and%20Processes.pdf
22:28 < nmz787> on RF + biology
22:29 < nmz787> I read somewhere that medium frequency EM is essentially quiet in the universe, so that's probably why we never developed sensors for it
22:31 < nmz787> "
22:31 < nmz787> Biochemical reaction yields can be changed by both static and RF magnetic fields that alter the number of spin-coupled radical pairs that recombine. Several distinct mechanisms exist to explain radical pair recombination effects that occur with static and RF magnetic fields over the range from millitesla to microtesla levels. Radical pair mechanisms depend on the magnetic properties of the nuclei comprising the spin-coupled radical pai
22:31 < nmz787> "
22:34 < nmz787> "The question arises as to whether absorption of multiple RF photons in the GHz range can excite low-lying absorption modes in biological molecules such as the mode at 184 GHz (6 cm^-1) calculated for myoglobin by Rai and colleagues (Rai et al. 2003) Prohofsky 2004). In principle, multiple photon processes could upshift incident energy to a region where resonant interactions are known to occur. In general, multiphoton absorption requir
22:34 < nmz787> "
22:47 -!- drazak_ [~ahdfadkfa@199.188.72.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
22:47 -!- kingjacob [~kingjacob@c-76-31-79-117.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:51 -!- drazak_ [~ahdfadkfa@199.188.72.84] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:53 < marainein> does this imply magnetic fields (like MRI machines) can damage organisms?
22:58 < nmz787> not really, unless it heats you up too much in some area
22:58 < nmz787> or it hits some apoptosis RF receptor we don't know about
23:03 < nmz787> http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/09/05/colorado-girl-recovering-from-bubonic-plague/?utm_source=BNT+September+6%2C+2012&utm_campaign=BNT090612&utm_medium=email
23:03 < nmz787> "Sierra Jane's life got the first inkling that she had bubonic plague. Dr. Jennifer Snow suspected the disease based on the girl's symptoms, a history of where she'd been, and an online journal's article on a teen with similar symptoms."
23:03 < nmz787> hell yeah internets
23:17 -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:18 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@122.123.252.27.dyn.cust.vf.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:19 -!- Mokbortolan_1 [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
23:37 -!- nsh- [~nsh@2001:0:5ef5:79fb:e2:997:925c:16f2] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:38 -!- nsh [~nsh@2001:0:5ef5:79fd:3c08:3f95:925c:16f2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
23:51 -!- Jenda` [~Jenda122@46.167.245.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
23:55 < skorket> nmz787:  http://imgur.com/haQoe
23:55 < skorket> not there yet, but getting closer
--- Log closed Fri Sep 07 00:00:19 2012