--- Log opened Tue Sep 18 00:00:29 2012
00:08 < skorket> so close
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08:05 < skorket> morning all
08:06 < kanzure> hi
08:08 < kirka> hi
08:08 < skorket> My friend and I altered grbl to spit back position information, I made a continuity tester that communicates over usb
08:08 < skorket> now I'm in the process of making a program to use the two to do automatic height mapping
08:09 < skorket> next stop is gcode generation based on interpolated height
08:13 < kirka> Wow, Rethink robotics finally released their product
08:13 < kirka> http://www.hizook.com/blog/2012/09/18/baxter-robot-rethink-robotics-finally-unveiled
08:15 < chris_99> skorket, you're using AVR aren't you
08:16 < skorket> avr for the continuity testing (with V-USB) and an arduino clone running grbl
08:16 < skorket> so, yes
08:16 < chris_99> ah, i'm still having issues with my PIC USB, might end up switching heh
08:18 < skorket> the USB was a bitch to get working and I think it's only really for low speed applications.  My bet is that theres better support for USB in PIC then there is in the AVR
08:18 < skorket> and of course you can always go the dedicated chip route
08:19 < kirka> 22k$ is very cheap for two hands with body and controller
08:21 < skorket> wanted to brag to nmz787.  Still not around...sheesh
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09:02 < kanzure> beep boop
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09:44 < delinquentme> whole bunch of workers saving files onto a central server
09:45 < delinquentme> basically littered about the server ... these files have fully defined file path in the database .. and need to be served up through the rails application
09:48 < kanzure> don't do that.
09:48 < kanzure> why did you take this job?
09:49 < kanzure> introduce them to paperclip or carrierwave at least. you can still keep the files on the local file system, but at least keep a backup somewhere.
09:50 < delinquentme> they're using paperclip
09:50 < delinquentme> but if files are constantly being worked on as well as being huge
09:50 < delinquentme> it might be best to not continually copy them ... so thats kinda where we're at
09:58 < nsh> lol
09:58 < nsh> blackhats worldwide thank you for your diligence
10:01 < kanzure> nsh: ?
10:01 < nsh> nm
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10:32 < kanzure> skorket: there he is
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10:33 < nmz787> hi
10:34 < chris_99> yo nmz787
10:34 < nmz787> what it us
10:34 < nmz787> up*
10:34 < chris_99> i've almost got USB to work on a PIC now :)
10:35 < nmz787> cool, how?
10:35 < chris_99> turns out i should have connected Vusb3.3 to 3.3V with a bypass cap
10:37 < chris_99> apparently you're not supposed to use the PIC debugger when doing USB debugging, because it interfers with timings
10:37 < chris_99> so may have to bust out a  logic sniffer
10:37 < chris_99> to see what's going on
10:37 < nmz787> i mean, bit banging USB protocol, with a serial to usb converter, etc
10:37 < chris_99> oh i'm using the PIC USB stack, it's got proper hardware for it
10:37 < chris_99> like a USB PLL etc.
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10:42 < nmz787> http://www.bristol.ac.uk/neuroscience/bn-news/2012/120515-locomotion-buhl.html
10:42 < nmz787> "Let’s get moving: Unravelling how locomotion starts15 May 2012Scientists at the University of Bristol have shed new light on one of the great unanswered questions of neuroscience: how the brain initiates rhythmic movements like walking, running and swimming.
10:42 < nmz787> "
10:43 < kirka> Central Pattern Generators?
10:43 < kirka> Ah, that's about high level control
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13:57 < kanzure> american chemical society v. leadscope http://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/ROD/docs/pdf/0/2012/2012-Ohio-4193.pdf
14:00 < kanzure> oh neat, leadscope got $26 mil out of that
14:00 < kanzure> from acs
14:03 < kanzure> it's weird how much effort non-profits put into patents and intellectual property.
14:04 -!- SDr is now known as ShapeShiftr
14:05 < delinquentme> tax evasion?
14:05 < kanzure> huh they didn't deny that they took pathfinder source code, that's fascinating. they could have just rewritten it though.
14:06 < kanzure> oh i see. someone reviewed the source code from both products and did not find similarity.
14:07 < kanzure> "ACS did not provide sufficient evidence to the jury supporting its claim for misappropriation or that it had a patent on PathFinder. ACS's only secret was the source code, and expert testimony revealed that the source codes for PathFinder and Leadscope were not the same."
14:07 < kanzure> "The lack of sufficient evidence of misappropriation is astonishing, especially considering the length of this trial and the extensive nature of the discovery spanning nearly six years."
14:07 < kanzure> wtf
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14:13 < kanzure> hah so they started the lawsuit /because/ of the leadscope patent. hilarious.
14:13 < kanzure> "Leadscope obtained defense via its insurance coverage" lolz
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14:16 < kanzure> aw they reversed the damages for the defamation claim
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14:19 < kanzure> ACS is chartered by Congress???
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15:01 < skorket> evening all
15:01 < kanzure> skorket: nmz787 is around
15:02 < skorket> yeah!  I can show off now!
15:02 < skorket> hey, nmz787, my friend and I altered grbl to spit out current position information
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16:34 < kanzure> beep boop
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17:02 < jrayhawk> root@richardiv:/# ls -al /etc/sudoers
17:02 < jrayhawk> -r--r----- 1 nanoengineeruser nanoengineeruser 358 Apr 30 01:25 /etc/sudoers
17:02 < kanzure> why is nanoengineer a user on richardiv?
17:02 < kanzure> *nanoengineeruser
17:02 < jrayhawk> I'm chrooted.
17:02 < kanzure> hm, well, shouldn't /etc/sudoers be owned by root?
17:02 < jrayhawk> Yes. That is a thing that should be.
17:03 < kanzure> feel free to fix my mistakes and replace the file on the server :(
17:03 < kanzure> i think i might have left some X stuff in /tmp too
17:03 < jrayhawk> Okay. Is it okay if I get rid of the preceding root in root/nanoengineer-chroot/ too
17:03 < kanzure> hrm?
17:04 < kanzure> the .tar.gz should have just the chroot with no higher directory
17:04 < jrayhawk> jrayhawk@richardiv:~$ tar -tzvvf nanoengineer-chroot.tar.gz | head -n 1
17:04 < jrayhawk> drwxr-xr-x root/root         0 2012-04-29 18:14 root/nanoengineer-chroot/
17:04 < kanzure> unless i fucked that one up too
17:04 < kanzure> blah
17:04 < kanzure> ok then
17:10 < jrayhawk> ah, so the acceleration thing is libgl1-mesa-swx11 being installed in place of libgl1-mesa-dri libgl1-mesa-glx
17:10 < jrayhawk> which might be a sound default
17:11 < jrayhawk> is it okay if I add myself to git-nanoengineer on diyhpl.us and make some patches to the readme
17:11 < kanzure> yes go ahead
17:13 < kanzure> there's also some things in packaging/ that might amuse you
17:13 < jrayhawk> Hmm. I can't test that fix myself since the userspace side of nouveau didn't exist back then.
17:13 < jrayhawk> oh well, at least i made some improvements
17:15 < kanzure> you can run nanoengineer from the chroot on gnusha and then do x forwarding
17:15 < jrayhawk> Yeah, I wanted to test direct rendering.
17:15 < alusion> Evening gentlemen
17:16 < alusion> I was wondering if anyone has any good information or a map that projects insight into the coming near future?
17:17 < kanzure> like two days?
17:17 < alusion> Like 2012-2015/20
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17:18 < jrayhawk> tomorrow: hard AI takeoff occurs, you and every record of your accomplishments is scavanged for atoms
17:19 < jrayhawk> thursday: overcast skies with a chance of rain
17:19 < alusion> lol
17:20 < alusion> (•‿•)
17:20 < eudoxia> 6 teraseconds after the Singularity: OpenCog is completed
17:20 < jrayhawk> haha
17:21 < alusion> What are some good blogs or resources to follow? I want to reserve my spot in the future, on the forefront of technology and innovation. There is a tidal wave coming and I want to be surfing it.
17:21 < kanzure> 1) learn everything about software
17:21 < kanzure> 2) learn everything about molecular biology
17:21 < kanzure> 3) learn everything about neurophysiology
17:22 < kanzure> that will set you up pretty well.
17:22 < jrayhawk> ...to be scavanged for atoms.
17:22 < alusion> I don't have to learn everything, if I have a team I can leverage my time and resources accordingly.
17:22 < kanzure> alusion: your team sucks
17:22 < alusion> So 3d printing is going to be soon diving into the molecular level.
17:22 < alusion> Hey you gotta start somewhere amirite?
17:22 < kanzure> reprap is not going to be doing molecular printing. you are a fucking liar.
17:23 < Mariu> :o
17:23 < eudoxia> >molecular 3d printing
17:23 < kanzure> i'm just not amused by that though
17:23 < eudoxia> Ah yes I too remember when I believed that
17:23 < kanzure> the recent 3d printing hype has had nothing to do with molecular manufacturing
17:23 < eudoxia> it was kinda silly in hingsight
17:23 < alusion> Sorry, I'm in the midst of reading the diamond age.
17:23 < kanzure> stop reading that book
17:23  * eudoxia brofists alusion
17:24 < alusion> (⌐■_■)
17:24 < eudoxia> it was a pretty well researched book
17:24 < eudoxia> for 1995
17:24 < jrayhawk> kanzure: you should start up a #futurist or an #ineffectualprognostication or something
17:24 < alusion> I am open to suggestions, kanzure
17:24 < kanzure> if you look at the physics of thermal goo squirting 3d printers, you will see that it's no where near the requirements for diamondoid mechanosynthesis
17:24 < kanzure> *nowhere
17:25 < kanzure> furthermore, if you actually take the time to read the diamondoid mechanosynthesis roadmaps, you'll see that we're not near to it at all
17:25 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/nanotech/
17:25 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/nanotech/freitas_process/
17:25 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/nanotech/freitas_process/notes.txt
17:26 < kanzure> but if you are a 3d printing expert, i should note that i'm coughing up $20k this year if you meet some requirements
17:26 < eudoxia> I always found it hilarious how SIAI got millions of dollars in donations and has not produced a single tangible thing while Merkle and Freitas are probably starving to death under abridge holding up a sign that says "Will do VASP simulations for food"
17:26 < kanzure> http://gadaprize.org/
17:26 < kanzure> eudoxia: siai has published a few papers, and fed jrayhawk's brother
17:26 < jrayhawk> Yeah, the lack of publicly visible output was one of the reasons for the management change.
17:26 < kanzure> oops it looks like humanityplus broke that domain. now only http://www.gadaprize.org/ works as a redirect? wtf.
17:27 < alusion> open source 3d printer? This looks interesting
17:27 < kanzure> alusion: http://reprap.org/
17:27 < eudoxia> kanzure: i'd be more satisfied if they were doing things like, working on multiple paths towards AGI and having computer security and cryptography experts guys work on different strategies for AI boxing
17:27 < kanzure> alusion: you're about six late to the party
17:27 < kanzure> *six years
17:27 < kanzure> eudoxia: siai doesn't actually want to make AGI
17:27 < alusion> I caught on to the 3d printing craze 4 years ago :\
17:28 < eudoxia> kanzure: what about Eli's fantasy of "we're out here to win" or whatever?
17:29 < alusion> kanzure, you seem like a smart dude. Do you have any favorite movies?
17:30 < kanzure> alusion: pokemon
17:30 < alusion> That is fascinating actually. Do you see yourself obtaining a pokemon in the near future?
17:31 < kanzure> no. what the fuck man?
17:31 < jrayhawk> hahaha
17:31 < alusion> Think about it, I mean we already are controlling cockroaches and beetles.
17:31 < jrayhawk> man i like this line of reasoning
17:31 < kanzure> i have thought about it, and you're wrong.
17:31 < kanzure> why are you here
17:32 < alusion> You're a bit sassy arentcha? I gotta take care of something, brb.
17:32 < jrayhawk> don't lie to us, kanzure. we know you dream of the day you're going to trap us and train us.
17:32 < kanzure> jrayhawk: what do you think this channel is :(
17:32 < jrayhawk> jrayhawk has evolved!
17:33 < jrayhawk> jrayhawk is now misanthrawk
17:33 < kanzure> soon eudoxia will reveal my new cult religion.. the entire universe is just a simulation based on my pokemon disassembly project.
17:33 < kanzure> i think that makes jules a saint or something, at least
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17:35 < eudoxia_> what's with people and their cults these days
17:35 < eudoxia_> it's like everyone has to have a cult
17:36 -!- eudoxia_ is now known as eudoxia
17:36 < kanzure> it's a hipster thing.
17:36 < alusion> you seem like an oldtimer, kanzure.
17:36 < eudoxia> hahah he's like 21
17:36 < alusion> Wahhh no way!
17:36 < kanzure> the internet has aged me greatly
17:36 < alusion> Where do you go to school?
17:36 < alusion> Me too.
17:36 < kanzure> fuck school
17:36 < alusion> YEAH!
17:37 < alusion> So you self taught mostly ?
17:37 < alusion> I figured with your language you would of accustomed some type of formal education..
17:37 < alusion> I like you. You are a smart, driven, egotistical individual with some spunk.
17:37 < jrayhawk> everything he needs to know he learned from pokemon
17:38 < kanzure> 17:38 <+bugcatcher> kanzure, I train to find enlightenment in #MON!
17:38 < alusion> kanzure, do you have a battlestation pic?
17:39 < kanzure> alusion: yes i use jrayhawk's.
17:39 < kanzure> http://www.omgwallhack.org/home/jrayhawk/img/hovel/20120512_008.jpg
17:39 < alusion> LMAO
17:40 < alusion> Is that a thinkpad? nice.
17:40 < alusion> You know your shit.
17:40 < alusion> If that is your actual setup. Pretty messy but nice.
17:40 < kanzure> i don't think you understand english
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17:41 < kanzure> i told you i use jrayhawk's battlestation picture.
17:41 < alusion> It's jrayhawk's, but perhaps I assume that you two collaborate / work together?
17:41 < alusion> oh.
17:41 < alusion> Well then I would be referring to jrayhawk, props.
17:41 < alusion> Where's yours then? you on your macbook bro?
17:41 < kanzure> no wtf man
17:41 < jrayhawk> man you should really roll with that and just make shit up, dude
17:41 < alusion> rofl.
17:42 < alusion> macbook BROS lmfao..
17:42 < kanzure> can you leave now?
17:42 < alusion> I'm kidding.
17:42 < alusion> Want a battlestation pic of mine?
17:43 < jrayhawk> "yes, that is my thinkpad. it has a fusion battery that powers the CRTs, too."
17:44 < alusion> http://imgur.com/TpfGq
17:45 < alusion> what you don't see is the lab setup on the other side ;D
17:45 < jrayhawk> "those cables are specially positioned amplified packet radio antennae"
17:46 < kanzure> jrayhawk: that's more superkuh's style than it is mine
17:46 < alusion> hey man, cables in the air > the ground. Nothing worse than riding over cables.
17:46 < alusion> What are all those on the top shelf?
17:46 < alusion> old gfx cards?
17:47 < kanzure> they are each $20,000 matrox cards
17:47 < jrayhawk> "i overclocked my harddrives; they spin so fast they create x-rays that interfere with my motherboard if they're too close"
17:48 < alusion> yeah, powering a bunch of old crt's.
17:49 < alusion> these days you can easily buy solid-state disformers that will supply all of the magneto-reluctance you need for a Milford trunion and don't have the risk of any kind of depleneration
17:49 < alusion>  the turbo-encabulator prevents sinusoidal depleneration but does nothing to solve linear or transverse nonellipsoid plenerations of either vector direction
17:49 < alusion> Do you even have logarithmic casing on that rig? LOL!
17:50 < kanzure> i hate you
17:50 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o kanzure] by ChanServ
17:50 <@kanzure> answer some questions for me. 1) do you use reddit?
17:50 < alusion> oh god
17:50 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-71-236-101-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:50 < jrayhawk> haha
17:51 < alusion> If I do?
17:51 -!- alusion was kicked from ##hplusroadmap by kanzure [alusion]
17:51 <@kanzure> close enough
17:51 -!- alusion [~alusion@pool-173-79-17-100.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:51 <@kanzure> nightmare is over guys. back to work.
17:51 < alusion> I gotta work on a resume, if I am distracting let me know.
17:52 < Mariu> lol
17:53 < alusion> Is there a sort of etiquette I should be aware of?
17:53 < jrayhawk> i do admit your hilarious ability to infuriate kanzure is keeping me from working on nanoengineer
17:53 < alusion> you guys are smart dudes, I'm a smart dude. I like you all.
17:54 < alusion> kanzure is the type of person to have a self portrait of himself sitting in front of him, I imagine -- with a poster of Kurzweil popping vitamin D in the corner of his wall
17:54 <@kanzure> i hate ray kurzweil
17:54 < alusion> I think we mentioned this before
17:55 < alusion> lmfao
17:55 < alusion> Alright resume time.
17:55 < alusion> essentially a “discharged” tool requiring recharge. > saw this in your notes
17:55 < alusion> wat?
17:56 < eudoxia> are you referring to the Freitas process?
17:56 < alusion> Yes.
17:57 < eudoxia> it means the tool starts out without a dimer and must be fed new ones from a feedstock after every operation
17:58 < eudoxia> thought I do think the Freitas tool started out with a dimer on the cap
17:58 < alusion> Ah I see.
17:59 < eudoxia> Oh, I just read the context
17:59 < eudoxia> I was 50% right
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18:03 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: did you push?
18:04 < jrayhawk> Not yet.
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18:36 < skorket> man, I thought nmz787 would be into the grbl stuff
18:41 < skorket> is anyone even close to winning the gada prize?
18:41 < skorket> what's going to happen come Dec. 31st?
18:42 <@kanzure> honestly it's in humanityplus' hands at the moment. probably nothing because they forgot about it.
18:42 <@kanzure> there are a bunch of teams that were working on projects.
18:44 < gnusha> nanoengineer.git: 1dd9b96 chroot: adding direct rendering instructions
18:44 < skorket> I heard about some makerbot using two or maybe three materials, but none that are printing electronic circuits.  And none that print a complete replica...
18:47 < skorket> yeah, we're actually pretty close, but it's just not there yet
18:50 < eudoxia> humanityplus seems pretty shitty
18:50 < eudoxia> their whole rebranding thing didn't really help them at all
18:53 <@kanzure> their rebranding killed them
18:54 < skorket> when and how did they rebrand?
18:54 <@kanzure> they used to be "world transhumanist association"
18:54 <@kanzure> then they changed their name to humanityplus
18:55 <@kanzure> haah i hope they take up legal action against googleplus. that would be hilarious to watch.
18:56 < eudoxia> now h+ expands to humanityplus instead of transhumanism in many people's heads
18:56 < eudoxia> sigh
18:56 <@kanzure> h+ was a lousy abbreviation anyway
18:56 < skorket> it doesn't get the same idea across?
18:57 <@kanzure> but for the record i'd like to point out i named hplusroadmap prior to humanityplus' bullshit
18:58 < eudoxia> skorknet: one is the name of a philosophy and the other is the name of some bullshit website
18:58 < eudoxia> skorket*
18:59 -!- Wanderer is now known as OldCoder
18:59 < skorket> I guess I don't understand why that is a legitimate grievance
19:00 <@kanzure> because humanityplus is a terrible organization
19:00 <@kanzure> see, if you are a transhumanist, and you sit down and think "geeze let's organize transhumanists and go do projects"... humanityplus is not what you come up with at all
19:00 <@kanzure> skorket: you alone have achieved more on your cnc project in the last few months than humanityplus has achieved in 10 years.
19:01 < eudoxia> does humanityplus still do those h+ summits?
19:01 < skorket> My only point was that your concern of them being a shitty organization is a legitimate grievance.  Them confusing the name isn't
19:01 < eudoxia> I liked your (kanzure) presentation more than anything I saw on that sing summit thing
19:02 < skorket> and what happened with them...it seems like they sort of had the right idea.  And weren't you part of their organization kanzure?
19:02 <@kanzure> eudoxia: thank you. i tried to make a presentation that /i/ would like to see.
19:02 <@kanzure> skorket: i joined the organization because i thought i could change them. i was wrong.
19:02 < skorket> are you no longer with them?
19:03 -!- Lukas [6c115747@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.17.87.71] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:03 <@kanzure> correct.
19:03 <@kanzure> i left when they started to threaten to sue me.
19:03 < skorket> yikes
19:03 < skorket> over the name of the irc channel?
19:04 <@kanzure> no
19:05 < Lukas> what's up gents?
19:05 <@kanzure> Lukas: i hated your news article and you should feel bad about yourself
19:05 < eudoxia> why would they threaten to sue you?
19:05 < Lukas> ouch
19:05 <@kanzure> Lukas: natasha vita-more is a film-maker. that's why she makes films. she's never implied she had hardware expertise or inclinations.
19:06 < Lukas> was this the Wired article?
19:06 <@kanzure> it was the one that sucked
19:06 <@kanzure> i dunno if it was wired. sounds like a thing wired would write though.
19:06 <@kanzure> eudoxia: they were angry that i wasn't going to volunteer my time writing drupal software or something
19:07 <@kanzure> for hplusmagazine
19:07 < skorket> is there any organization doing what h+ set out to do?
19:07 < eudoxia> was that around the time you transferred everything to wordpress or something?
19:07 <@kanzure> skorket: WTA didn't set out to do much except collect membership fees. so i don't see why that's a good thing :).
19:07 <@kanzure> eudoxia: yessir
19:08 < eudoxia> skorket: well Steel/cpopell is putting together this research organization thing
19:08 <@kanzure> skorket: honestly, i think we have more transhumanist talent in this irc channel than WTA ever had.
19:08 < eudoxia> we have a wiki, so, I guess that's more than anything humanityplus has ever done
19:08 <@kanzure> you have a wiki because you refuse to use the hplusroadmap wiki :|
19:08 < eudoxia> sigh
19:09 < Lukas> so, uh, its nice to see you too kanzure
19:09 <@kanzure> Lukas: still mad at you
19:10 < eudoxia> 1) horrible interface that looks like it was written in 1998 2) can't even get a list of all articles without installing a plugin 3) security warnings after every click 4) two or four bytes of info tops, were the reasons I didn't contribute to your wiki when I found it
19:10 <@kanzure> it's just not useful to go around talking shit about biohackers
19:10 <@kanzure> Lukas: i honestly don't see why you did that.
19:10 < eudoxia> now our wiki has a shitbutload of information, so why not use that one instead=
19:10 <@kanzure> Lukas: you could maybe claim it was the reporter's bias, but i sort of doubt it..
19:10 <@kanzure> eudoxia: ok for #1 i offered to make it look precisely like monobook.css from mediawiki
19:10 < eudoxia> after our wiki had ten times the data diyhpluswiki had
19:10 < Lukas> let me see which part of the article you are upset about
19:10 <@kanzure> eudoxia: #2 there's indexes
19:11 <@kanzure> eudoxia: #3 stop using a web browser if you don't care about https
19:11 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: or you can fix that
19:11 < skorket> eudoxia, link?
19:12 < eudoxia> http://wiki.transhumani.com/index.php?title=Main_Page
19:13 < jrayhawk> fix who what with the where now
19:13 <@kanzure> eudoxia is complaining about "security warnings"
19:13 < eudoxia> I click on history and I get an SSL Error and oh god what's going on the screen's all red please help me
19:14 < docl> using diyhpluswiki signals that you care more
19:14 < jrayhawk> oh. yeah, I can fix that if you add an diyhpl.us MX record over to mail.svcs.cs.pdx.edu
19:14 <@kanzure> Lukas: http://gnusha.org/logs/2012-09-04.log
19:14 < jrayhawk> or i guess i could iptables that over
19:14 <@kanzure> eudoxia: you should consider just using your normal text editors
19:14 <@kanzure> why hasn't mark sims emailed me a backup of his mediawiki installation for nanoengineer stuff. >:|
19:15 < eudoxia> kanzure: what do you mean? directly comitting to the git repo of the wiki?
19:16 <@kanzure> yeah
19:17 < eudoxia> but think of all the idiots who can barely use github and want to contribute to an h+ wiki?
19:17 < eudoxia> kanz just think of the idiots
19:18 <@kanzure> you are not an idiot
19:19 < eudoxia> still, that thing that steel keeps saying about the barrier to entry
19:19 <@kanzure> what contributions is he going to make exactly?
19:19 < Lukas> For the record, I never really implied that this would be mainstream
19:20 < eudoxia> people are put off if they have to learn how to use git to contribute to something where in any other case they just sign up and start writing on a nice web interface
19:20 < Lukas> you'd have to take that up with Tim
19:20 <@kanzure> Lukas: i think it's just too hostile dude
19:20 <@kanzure> Lukas: how about instead of being secretive and hateful of biohackers, you put up a git repo and share what you're working on.
19:21 <@kanzure> eudoxia: what people are we talking about exactly?
19:21 <@kanzure> eudoxia: you? me? jrayhawk?
19:21 < eudoxia> potential contributors
19:22 < Lukas> I suppose I am guilty of association.  Again, I didn't say any of those things.  I was asked about Vita-Moore, and I said I was indifferent.  That was pretty much it
19:22 <@kanzure> Lukas: :(
19:23 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: are you certain you want your git author string to be "jrayhawk+gnusha@omgwallhack.org <jrayhawk+gnusha@omgwallhack.org>" for nanoengineer?
19:23 < Lukas> what do you want me to say?  You can ask Tim yourself, he is the combative one, and he will admit it openly
19:24 < Lukas> I am trying to promote our projects, anything else that is said that isn't quoted from me should not be my problem
19:25 <@kanzure> i think we are all responsible for how we promote ourselves. that's why i got all over lepht. that's why i get all over humanityplus.
19:26 <@kanzure> still, how about some version control goodness for those projects..
19:27 < Lukas> I just want you to know that we are not being hostile to anyone.  If we express our opinion on Lepht, biohack.me gets pissed, someone asks us about Vita-moore, other people get upset
19:28 <@kanzure> nobody gets upset about vita-more. but saying "biohackers like vita-more aren't doing anything" is silly because vita-more doesn't focus on those types of projects- her most recent projects have been film and a phd thesis.
19:28 <@kanzure> like why not mention biocurious instead or something
19:30 < Lukas> Vita-moore was only mentioned in the article because the reporter asked - and we expressed apathy.  A few other people spoke to use about biocurious and genspace and I told them that their focus is different that ours
19:30 < jrayhawk> oh, that is a mediocre author string. meh, too lazy to fix it.
19:30 <@kanzure> i think biocurious' closest project is their 3d cell printer
19:31 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: may i fix?
19:31 < jrayhawk> I suppose.
19:31 < jrayhawk> I guess Joe Rayhawk <jrayhawk+nanoengineer@omgwallhack.org> might be better.
19:31 <@kanzure> okie dokie
19:32 < jrayhawk> Keep in mind you'll have to rebuildrepo nanoengineer afterwards (or pinyconfig nanoengineer piny.ikiwiki false)
19:32 < Lukas> @kanzure: are we good?
19:33 < jrayhawk> 'denynonfastforwards=FALSE' EMPHASIS
19:33 < jrayhawk> WE'RE MAD ABOUT MERGES!
19:33 <@kanzure> Lukas: probably
19:34 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: just remember to save ~/.bash_history with all these git commands so i can submit it to fiverr to get sung up into a git song.
19:34 <@kanzure> is this a good time to use git commit --ammend? i use filter-branch so often that i sort of default to that..
19:35 < Lukas> probably? Next time I'll make it clear that I don't want lines drawn.  We are all looking for the same thing here - enhancing humanity
19:36 <@kanzure> *amend
19:37 <@kanzure> i think this leaves a superfluous commit string that leads to me
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19:37 < jrayhawk> amend will probably work fine
19:38 < jrayhawk> obviously with --author
19:38 <@kanzure> yeah but now it says "Committer: Bryan Bishop <kanzure@gmail.com>  2012-09-18 21:32:38"
19:38 <@kanzure> i guess that's truth :/
19:39 < jrayhawk> a fair indication that I am a lazy asshole
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19:40 < gnusha> nanoengineer.git: cbf6297 chroot: adding direct rendering instructions
19:46 < Lukas> I am off to bed.  I hope we can speak on better terms next time kanzure
19:46 -!- Lukas [6c115747@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.17.87.71] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
19:46 < gnusha> nanoengineer.git: f2d8861 whitespace crusading
19:46 < gnusha> nanoengineer.git: abae3c8 tab crusading (python files)
19:46 < gnusha> nanoengineer.git: 6403956 Merge pull request #2 from kanzure/whitespace-crusading
19:47 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: what is your opinion on whitespace in .cpp/.h files? there's a few thousand files that seem to all use \t. the python files were mixed though.
19:47 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@pool-108-39-145-80.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:47 < jrayhawk> I thought whitespace was semantic in python?
19:48 < jrayhawk> or are spaces and tabs interchangable
19:48 <@kanzure> well it turns out that you can mix \t and whitespace
19:48 <@kanzure> just, everyone will hate you for it
19:48 <@kanzure> as they should.
19:48 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Quit: the neuronal action potential is an electrical manipulation of reversible abrupt phase changes in the lipid bilayer]
19:48 <@kanzure> in some files it was even worse though.. \t was set to 2x.
19:49 < jrayhawk> when in doubt, do as linux does. document coding style in a central location and enforce it vigorously.
19:49 <@kanzure> it looks like most .cpp files in nanoengineer use \t so i figure i should just leave it be since it's at least consistent?
19:50 <@kanzure> oh, true. i should do that.
19:50 < jrayhawk> i guess 'do as linux does' only works if you're willing to alienate folks
19:50 -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-81-239.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:50 <@kanzure> what folks.. there's like two committers: you and nmz787.
19:52 < jrayhawk> http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git;a=blob;f=Documentation/CodingStyle
19:52 <@kanzure> hm i wonder why there's cad/tests/ and cad/src/tests/
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19:58 <@kanzure> some of the code is hilarious
19:58 <@kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/blob/master/cad/src/model/chem.py
19:58 <@kanzure> 200 lines of import statements.
19:59 <@kanzure> DEBUG_1779 = False # do not commit with True, but leave the related code in for now [bruce 060414]
20:00 < jrayhawk> man, it sure is nice to live in an era where branching works
20:01 < jrayhawk> a codingstyle-enforcing megapatch would make rebasing against the original codebase difficult, if'n that happens to be a concern.
20:02 <@kanzure> i doubt anyone has patches laying around for the old code base
20:02 <@kanzure> my python whitespace changes are sane defaults and i don't think nmz787 is introducing tabs
20:02 <@kanzure> OR IS HE
20:02 <@kanzure> https://github.com/nmz787/nanoengineer/tree/ubuntu-fixes
20:02 < jrayhawk> NO ONE SUSPECTS THE TRANSISH INQUISITION
20:04 <@kanzure> i need to figure out where i can start unit testing this beast
20:04 <@kanzure> without tests this is doomed
20:07 <@kanzure> wtf x10 https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/blob/master/cad/src/files/mmp/mmpformat_versions.py#L43
20:09 < eudoxia> is that... supposed to be a version list?
20:09 < skorket> hey nmz787
20:09 <@kanzure> a lot of this code is bad because it doesn't separate the GUI from the backend code
20:09 <@kanzure> so all of the import statements end up requiring stuff that requires opengl
20:12 <@kanzure> why is this here? https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/blob/master/cad/src/tools/old/reindent.py
20:12 <@kanzure> i guess nanoengineer started before "hey let's run our own python package index" was a common thought.
20:18 < JayDugger> Well...$22,000 for a page-turning robot. Awesome.
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20:49 < jrayhawk> okay, https://secure.diyhpl.us will involve less warning, now
20:50 < jrayhawk> also, email to bryan and kanzure @diyhpl.us does a thing
20:50 <@kanzure> oh noes, email
20:51 < jrayhawk> ha ha ha you will never escape
21:40 < nmz787> hi skorket
21:40 < nmz787> i tried looking for any public grbl commits
21:40 < skorket> https://github.com/abetusk/grbl
21:41 < skorket> nothing earth shattering, just put some code in the main interrupt that drives the stepper motors
21:41 < skorket> every step it issues now adds to the global position counters
21:41 < skorket> but it means you can have real time feedback as to where each of the motor positions are
21:42 < skorket> as long as you haven't overrun the event buffer
21:42 < nmz787> hmm
21:42 < nmz787> it didnt count steps before?
21:44 < skorket> not exactly
21:44 < skorket> it has what are essential key frames
21:45 < skorket> each key frame passes the number of steps to issue to the drivers at a lower level
21:45 < skorket> but once it passes it off to the subsystem, it just assumes it works and doesn't update anything else
21:45 < skorket> not sure if that made sense
21:46 < skorket> for example:  start at (0,0), go to (1, 2), go to (5, 5).  The (0,0) -> (1,2) would generate a structure to tell it to step (x,y) steps to get from (0, 0) to (1,2) but would just update to (1,2) after it passes it off to the subsystem
21:51 < nmz787> hmm
21:51 < nmz787> so why do you want the global counter?
21:51 < nmz787> if you're not checking it against some encoder or current sense thing (to see if the stepper skips steps)
21:54 < skorket> real time (ish) feedback
21:54 < skorket> I ask it to move to 50mm, 80mm from 0mm, 0mm, it's going to take time
21:55 < skorket> I want to wait till it gets there to start issuing more commands
21:55 < nmz787> hmm
21:55 < nmz787> i will have to play with grbl as-is before I think of porting it to propeller, etc...
21:56 < nmz787> maybe its good enough?
21:56 < skorket> or, if you like, if you build in a feed back system you can now check it against where grbl thinks it is
21:56 < nmz787> i have been thinking of accelleration stuff lately
21:56 < nmz787> and i think that I should use a chirp function as the model
21:56 < skorket> I like grbl.  So far it's been good.  But I needed the feedback
21:56 < nmz787> since it continuously increases in frequency
21:57 < nmz787> i also want to incorporate seemless/automatic microstepping transitioning
21:57 < skorket> yeah, not something I'm really familiar with.  You should take a look at grbl though, I think it has a lot of that stuff in there
21:58 < nmz787> so you start out doing say 1/16th microstepping, then when you pickup speed, change over to 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, then full stepping
21:58 < nmz787> then the opposite on slow down
21:58 < skorket> hmm, yeah, you have to be careful
21:58 < nmz787> unless grbl or whatever i use can handle microstepping at full speed
21:58 < skorket> again, this is something that I'm not that familiar with
21:59 < nmz787> or if I don't end up microstepping
21:59 < nmz787> too much theoretical stuff, will need to experiment
21:59 < skorket> You want to do microstepping, even if you're trying to go fast, if your electronics can handle, from what I understand
21:59 < nmz787> kanzure: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/103zqo/reddit_where_do_you_live/
21:59 < nmz787> kanzure:  large dataset of reddit user locations
21:59 < skorket> From experimentation, going at full step introduces a lot of vibration into the machine
22:00 < nmz787> well certain steppers are shitty at microstepping
22:00 < nmz787> if they are designed for high holding torque especially
22:00 < nmz787> because the magnetic field doesn't follow a sine wave
22:00 < skorket> microstepping is not just about increased accuracy/resolution
22:00 < nmz787> it's peaky at the teeth (where the electromagnets pull the spindle at)
22:00 < skorket> or rather, it's about increasing resolution but not necessarily increasing accuracy
22:02 < skorket> to me, if you wanted to really have that fine control over the microstepping, I would set up a system where you could control it programatically and keep track of where each motor is in it's cycle
22:03 < skorket> make sure to only 'land' on full steps where you need it, but for non critical positioning, use microstepping
22:03 < skorket> or something like that.
22:03 < nmz787> maybe
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22:04 < nmz787> i was thinking that keeping track of things could be useful for bringing the cutter back to 0,0 position, but also such that the motors are on the same tooth
22:04 < nmz787> so 0,0 is always 0 degrees, 0 degrees
22:05 < nmz787> vs starting at 0,0 moving around and coming back to 0,0 but not having the motor be at the same degree of rotation
22:05 < nmz787> i think it would improve reproducibility
22:05 < skorket> well, if things are set up properly, that should never happen
22:05 < nmz787> but maybe not :/
22:05 < skorket> the only way that would happen is if you missed some steps
22:05 < nmz787> hmm
22:06 < nmz787> yeah i guess
22:06 < nmz787> sure
22:11 < nmz787> http://news.discovery.com/space/warp-drive-possible-nasa-tests-100yss-120917.html
22:11 < nmz787> pretty cool
22:12 < nmz787> no journal citation
22:14 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: :V]
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22:18 <@kanzure> yashgaroth: lolz
22:19 < nmz787> ?
22:25 <@kanzure> nmz787: check the logs. you're missing out.
22:26 <@kanzure> nmz787: basically we were hating on delinquentme for believing that "warp drive is now possible" because of that news article
22:26 -!- CIA-18 [cia@cia.vc] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
22:26 <@kanzure> and then you linked to it, and yashgaroth dropped out the channel on purpose.
22:28  * kanzure sleeps
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22:32 < nmz787> o
22:32 < nmz787> i saw delinquentme post it on facebook
22:32 < nmz787> :P
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22:47 < nmz787> i dont see the logs
22:51 < brownies> well, it's the sort of thing he would post
23:08 <@kanzure> nmz787: yesterday thing
23:21 < nmz787> kanzure: do you know about this http://dfmsummit.com/
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--- Log closed Wed Sep 19 00:00:30 2012