--- Log opened Sat Sep 29 00:00:40 2012
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05:01 <@kanzure> you guys are all boring
05:15 < chris_99> i just found out how the little micro-hybdrid rockets work, and they sound kind of nifty.  They use nitrous oxide + PVC as the fuel source.
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08:33 < wizzbrah> [08:01] <@kanzure> you guys are all boring
08:33 < wizzbrah> <3
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11:10 <@kanzure> https://groups.google.com/group/londonbiogeeks
11:11 <@kanzure> this just seems weird:
11:11 <@kanzure> http://2012.igem.org/Team:University_College_London/HumanPractice/DIYbio/DIYbio
11:11 <@kanzure> "Common activities: genetic engineering"
11:11 <@kanzure> "Desired activities (not feasible persently): synthetic biology"
11:12 <@kanzure> what?
11:12 < chris_99> yeah and then thay say ' No genetic modification possible due to tight European regulations '
11:12 < chris_99> er what
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11:14 < chris_99> does anyone know if http://diybio.madlab.org.uk/ is any good
11:17 <@kanzure> well, they seem to run lots of public outreach sessions at their space in the uk
11:17 <@kanzure> and they seem to have some weird background in television/public outreach/news.
11:18 < chris_99> hmm, i'm confused if they're still active, as their last blog post seems to be in july
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11:18 <@kanzure> chris_99: yeah they just suck at posting updates
11:19 <@kanzure> i think they post most of their updates through the bbc :P
11:19 < chris_99> ah hehe
11:39 <@kanzure> pasky: have you met prusa?
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12:27 < gnusha> nanoengineer.git: 1331640 shouldn't list names without the contributors in a README
12:43 <@kanzure> aww "We don't yet support double or triple bonds..."
12:53 < brownies> just like the early universe!
12:55 <@kanzure> brownies: https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/blob/master/cad/src/model/assembly.py#L1663
12:55 <@kanzure> legacy code is the worst
13:08 < pasky> kanzure: sure, he used to come to brmlab fairly frequently
13:08 < pasky> not so often lately though
13:13 < chido> he gave me a reprap badge
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13:19 <@kanzure> ah neat
13:19 <@kanzure> okay then
13:35 <@kanzure> "Hello, I'm Ki Sang Jung from HK. I wish to introduce to you a profitable deal worth USD $ 98.6M, it's legitimate and may be of appeal to you. I want your consent to enable me provide you with detail."
13:35 <@kanzure> .. and it's sent from a brazilian email provider.
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13:47 < eudoxia> h+ magazine almost had three consecutive articles asking for money
13:47 < eudoxia> i think that's a new record
13:48 <@kanzure> wtf why are you reading that
13:48 <@kanzure> also did you check out the mocking branch in nanoengineer?
13:48 < eudoxia> sometimes my blood pressure gets too low
13:49 < eudoxia> no, what does it do?
13:49 < eudoxia> or, rather, have
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13:55 <@kanzure> eudoxia: it disables all of the graphics libraries and makes nanoengineer run on modern linux with python2.6
13:55 < eudoxia> what do you mean 'disables the graphics libraries'?
13:56 <@kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/commit/697d64c22b457b8470608c7de8d5540785a81c85
13:59 < eudoxia> kanzure it looks like it couples some of the OpenGL with a python testing library?
13:59 <@kanzure> correct. this way the gui stuff doesn't get in my way.
14:00 <@kanzure> don't pull that branch because it's craptastic. i might make it a mode or something before i start moving things into separable modules.
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15:59 <@kanzure> nmz787: hi
16:22 < nmz787> hi
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17:47 < nmz787> so i may get to meet george church at genspace next thurs
17:47 < nmz787> apparently he's gonna be there in the AM
17:47 < nmz787> since he's on their scientific board
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17:54 <@kanzure> i wonder how good his memory is
17:54 <@kanzure> sometimes it seems like he's the sort of guy to forget 50 out of 60 of the companies he's invested in
17:56 < yashgaroth> invested? I thought they paid him
17:57 <@kanzure> oh right, yes that too
17:57 <@kanzure> but i'm pretty sure he has his own money that he throws around a little
18:25 <@kanzure> boop beep
18:25 < eudoxia> beep bopity bop
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22:48 <@kanzure> re: pharma costs
22:48 <@kanzure> "it's closer to $1 billion on average."
22:48 <@kanzure> "In the March 2003 edition of the Journal of Health Economics, a trio of economists from the United States wrote about a number. Soon after, that number began popping up all over the place — in newspapers and political speeches, on television and the Internet."
22:48 <@kanzure> "But the figure, despite reaching near-canonical status, drew criticism. Some said it was inflated. Less diplomatic detractors said it was a 9-digit fairy tale."
22:48 < yashgaroth> oh, per drug? yeah
22:48 <@kanzure> "That number was 802,000,000. It was, according to the 2003 study, the number of US dollars that pharmaceutical companies spent, on average, to bring a new drug to market (J Health Econ 2003;22[2]:151-85)."
22:49 <@kanzure> "Now there are new numbers. Some health economists peg the current cost of drug development at US$1.3 billion, others at US$1.7 billion.
22:49 <@kanzure> "... the data used to come up with the original number came from an industry financed source and was not made public."
22:50 <@kanzure> "When I was working at a big pharma company, I heard about a new manufacturing site they had built in anticipation of a really big drug being approved. The cost? Several hundred million dollars."
22:50 <@kanzure> "What happen when the drug got rejected by the FDA? The manufacturing site was written off (couldn't really be used to make anything else)."
22:50 <@kanzure> uh.. someone needs to go hijack those phantom pharma factories.
22:50 <@kanzure> http://www.pharmalot.com/2011/07/clinical-trial-costs-for-each-patient-rose-rapidly/
22:50 <@kanzure> http://csdd.tufts.edu/research/research_milestones
22:51 <@kanzure> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2630351/
22:51 <@kanzure> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/drug-rd-costs-are-less-than-estimated---so-why-the-high-prices/article623054/
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22:55 < yashgaroth> well I'm only gonna read that last article cuz it's late, but they don't seem to consider the cost of the ~90% of drugs that fail in clinical trials
22:56 <@kanzure> well, let's consider commando pharma
22:56 <@kanzure> guerrilla pharma
22:56 <@kanzure> so let's say we ignore the FDA, and uh, ignore phases 3 and 4?
22:57 <@kanzure> and possibly ignoring phase 2
22:57 <@kanzure> and let's also say that you don't include all your failed terrible decisions in the price of it
22:58 < yashgaroth> 10 mil, maybe 5, which I base on very little
22:59 < yashgaroth> that also depends on a how much basic research has been done on the target
23:00 < yashgaroth> I can neither confirm nor deny that a phase 1 trial's worth of drug will cost approximately 1 mil to produce at GMP specifications, and 5 mil for a phase 2
23:02 < yashgaroth> and that GMP costs about 5-10x more than quasi-GMP production, ignoring the large equipment capital
23:03 < yashgaroth> by 'quasi' I mean 99% safe, rather than 99.9%
23:04 < yashgaroth> for true underground pharma, or whatever we're calling it, I suppose you could look at certain large asian countries that don't respect foreign patents
23:04 < yashgaroth> for a more accurate portrayal of cost, anyway
23:05 < yashgaroth> not that they do much reliable basic research there, no offense to said countries
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23:13 < yashgaroth> anyway I'm out for the night, here have this http://www.theonion.com/articles/munchstrosity-created-in-fritolayboratory,29587/
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23:45 < nmz787> kanzure: awake?
--- Log closed Sun Sep 30 00:00:41 2012