--- Log opened Sun Sep 30 00:00:41 2012
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01:01 <@kanzure> nmz787: no
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04:56 < brownies> this looks interesting. http://pgbovine.net/burrito.html
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06:06 < kirka> Hi
06:07 < eudoxia> hey kirka
06:07 < kirka> I see this CPU architecture in my dreams regularily: http://www.adapteva.com/introduction/
06:08 < kirka> network-on-chip of RISC CPUs
06:09 < kirka> eudoxia ?
06:09 < eudoxia> reading
06:10 < kirka> They have a kickstarter: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/adapteva/parallella-a-supercomputer-for-everyone
06:10 < kirka> Here is a paper: http://74.220.215.219/~adapteva/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/adapteva_hpec11.pdf
06:10 < eudoxia> 32 bit?
06:10 < kirka> Yes
06:11 < kirka> 1K-core chip should deliver 1.6TFLOPS per 20 watt.
06:11 < kirka> That's very good
06:11 < eudoxia> wouldn't that horribly restrict the memory, or am I thinking about this the wrong way?
06:12 < kirka> No, they are small - these individual CPUS
06:12 < kirka> There are 64+ of them
06:12 < eudoxia> maybe if each processor has a certain alloted memory you could get past the 3.5 GB bound, but you'd only be able to access 3.5*(#Cores) GB of memory
06:13 < eudoxia> that's 210 GB, while 64 bit lets you have 16 exabytes
06:14 < kirka> It's hard to compare network on chip to standard multicore CPUs we have
06:15 < kirka> I'd like to look at reference manual for their RISC arch, but seems there isn't any
06:16 < kirka> External memory is a bottleneck as always
06:17 < kirka> I think it's OK to access as network resource in this networ-on-a-chip
06:17 < kirka> *access external memory
06:17 < kirka> And 32 bits is more than enough to access local RAM
06:18 < kirka> Making them 64 bit would increase silicon area by ~1.3-1.5 times, making the whole thing less attractive
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06:20 < kirka> eudoxia Cluster of these chips would be very good at quantum chemistry and molecular dynamics simulations
06:21 < kirka> Single 1024 core chip can easily cost 100$
06:22 < kirka> 130 mm^2 of silicon isn't much
06:23 < eudoxia> i guess it's ok
06:23 < eudoxia> it may not scale to a matrioshka brain like 64 bit does but then again who cares
06:23 < kirka> Heh
06:24 < kirka> Perspective of someone creating matrioshka brain is frightening
06:26 < eudoxia> yeah, Nicoll-Dyson lasers and all that shit
06:27 <@kanzure> on the diybio list someone just posted,
06:27 <@kanzure> "какие-то агрессивно-высокомерные по отношению к непрофессионалу"
06:27 < kirka> Heh
06:27 <@kanzure> i think this is saying the person is very angry?
06:27 < kirka> Nope
06:27 <@kanzure> and nonprofessional?
06:28 < eudoxia> i think i saw the word economy
06:28 < kirka> In a nutshell, it says "You are too hard on me, the n00b"
06:28 <@kanzure> bah
06:28 <@kanzure> thank you for the ru2leet translation
06:29 <@kanzure> kirka: https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/commits/mocking
06:29 <@kanzure> this version of nanoengineer will run on modern linux without trouble
06:29 <@kanzure> however, you do have to run "sudo pip install mock"
06:29 < kirka> Cool
06:30 < kirka> >_metaclass_
06:31 <@kanzure> the __metaclass__ stuff is to fix some problems caused by mock
06:31 <@kanzure> this is just a temporary solution :)
06:31 <@kanzure> see, the problem is that the mock library was never intended to be used like this
06:31 <@kanzure> and there are multiple classes that are being mocked in this branch
06:31 < kirka> > mock is a library for testing in Python.
06:31 < kirka> Ah
06:31 <@kanzure> so when a class inherits a previously-mocked class, python doesn't know which metaclass to resolve to
06:32 <@kanzure> so i just force it to make up a new one because i don't care
06:32 <@kanzure> oops i mean when a "class inherits multiple previously-mocked classes" not "when a class inherits a previously-mocked class"
06:33 < kirka> I don't understand python's metaclasses anyway, heh
06:33 < kirka> Maybe it's similar to common lisp's though
06:40 < gnusha> nanoengineer.git: 396f148 reinstate class GromacsProcess with mocking
06:43 <@kanzure> http://publicdomainreview.org/2011/08/23/space-colony-art-from-the-1970s/
06:44 < eudoxia> the one with the bernal sphere always confused me
06:44 < kirka> Cool, I haven't seen all of them
06:47 <@kanzure> http://publicdomainreview.org/2012/07/09/arabic-machine-manuscript/
06:47 <@kanzure> there's some really weird stuff on here.
06:47 <@kanzure> http://publicdomainreview.org/2012/06/30/france-in-the-year-2000-1899-1910/
06:47 <@kanzure> apparently, in the year 2000, frenchmen rode flying seahorses
06:48 < Urchin> there looks to be couple of bernal sphere pictures there
06:48 < eudoxia> Urchin: the one with the dudes positioning the mirrors
06:49 < Urchin> yes, it confused me as well
06:49 < eudoxia> http://publicdomainreview.org/2012/08/06/kaishi-hen-an-18th-century-japanese-anatomical-atlas/
06:49 <@kanzure> "battle cars" is also amusing
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06:53 <@kanzure> http://publicdomainreview.org/2012/09/28/16th-century-prosthetics-1564/
06:55 <@kanzure> "winner, 5th olympiad, walking race 10,000 m"
06:58 < eudoxia> the maple leaf looks a little suspicious
07:01 < kirka> Maple leaf?
07:01 < eudoxia> guy's shirt
07:03  * kirka Is reading about that many core architecture
07:03 < kirka> Local RAM instead of cache is cool
07:03 < kirka> If I'd design a CPU for scientific computing, It'd be exactly like their one.
07:04 < ParahSailin_> which arch?
07:04 < kirka> http://www.hpcwire.com/hpcwire/2011-05-03/startup_launches_manycore_floating_point_acceleration_technology.html
07:04 <@kanzure> kirka: you should read the criticism. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4583263
07:05 < ParahSailin_> not a general cpu?
07:06 < ParahSailin_> ah it is
07:07 < ParahSailin_> why fucking go to in-q-tel
07:07 < ParahSailin_> thats a terrorist organization
07:08 < kirka> kanzure Looks like there isn't a lot of chip|HPC guys on hackernews nowadays
07:12 < kirka> >At the 28nm node, Olofsson thinks they can get up to 1,000 64-bit floating point cores on the die.
07:13 < kirka> With this architecture it's possible to build exaflop machine @ 30MW.
07:15 < ParahSailin_> you always trade one thing for another on a die-- what does this arch sacrifice
07:16 < kirka> Comptibility with old (x86) binary codes and large caches.
07:16 < ParahSailin_> ah, cache
07:16 < kirka> Scratchpad RAM is better
07:17 < kirka> Modern CPUs are very slow because they are required to support a lot of legacy software
07:17 < kirka> Modern x86 CPUs are quite a mess
07:18 < kirka> Threr is a unit that translates x86 code to internal RISC code
07:18 < kirka> It takes space
07:18 < kirka> Threr are x86 compatibility and real mode
07:18 < kirka> And there are very large caches to help old software run faster
07:18 < ParahSailin_> doesn't translation to microcode take a small amount of the die?
07:19 < kirka> I don't think so
07:20 < kirka> Caches waste much bigger areas of course
07:21 < ParahSailin_> for many purposes, minimizing memory IO off-die is not a waste
07:21 < kirka> I agree
07:22 < kirka> But I'm interested in computing heavy applications
07:22 < kirka> Physical modeling etc
07:22 < ParahSailin_> why not a gpu
07:22 < kirka> GPUs are much less flexible, and they are more complex to program.
07:23 < kirka> This "epiphany" architecture would be ideal for me
07:24 < eudoxia> GPUs seem ideal for the mathematical applications you're interested in kirka
07:25 < kirka> eudoxia They are good, but there are branch intensive algorithms that they cannot run effectively
07:25 < kirka> For example multy-body physics engine
07:26 < kirka> It's very hard to implement all sub-algorithms on GPU
07:28 < kirka> GPU weren't meant for running such software
07:29 < kirka> Ah, the machine of my dream
07:32 < kirka> CLuster of these could be used to simulate c.Elegans in celullar resolution - in real time
07:32 < kirka> These guys are creating such model: http://code.google.com/p/openworm/
07:38 < kirka> This CPU would be good for real-time computer vision and motion planning in robotics
07:39 < kirka> UAVs with local image analysis for example
07:39 < kirka> Military guys would be happy
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08:09 < ParahSailin_> what is the trade this arch makes over gpu to be less parallel?
08:09 < kirka> >less parallel ?
08:10 < ParahSailin_> less parallel as in 32 cores are not bound together on the same instructions
08:11 < kirka> GPUs don't have separate control floe units near every FPU
08:11 < kirka> *flow
08:12 < ParahSailin_> yes. what is the trade this new arch makes to give separate control for each core
08:12 < kirka> Yes
08:12 < kirka> ACtually, tehre are no "cores" in GPU
08:12 < kirka> There are lots of FPUs and some control units
08:12 < kirka> *there
08:12 < ParahSailin_> the cuda manual calls them cores in a compute unit
08:12 < kirka> So GPUs cannot execute branches
08:13 < ParahSailin_> ok i just use what nvidia calls them
08:13 < kirka> "Epiphany" Is just an array of lightweight RISCs with FPUs
08:13 < kirka> Every RISC has it's own instruction stream
08:13 < kirka> That's very convenient
08:14 < ParahSailin_> to get that on the die, what's the trade they make?
08:14 < kirka> No need too think about warps etc
08:14 < ParahSailin_> gpu already has little in the way of caching afaik
08:15 < ParahSailin_> and small amount of shared memory ~64kb dedicated to each compute unit
08:15 < kirka> Well, GPUs still have texturing units, tesselation and a lot of specialized stuff
08:15 < kirka> It takes space
08:16 < kirka> http://www.adapteva.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/adapteva_mpr.pdf
08:16 < kirka> Paper from MPR
08:16 < ParahSailin_> i think most of that stuff is general purpose fpu's that do that
08:17 < kirka> Well, it's wide SIMD
08:18 < kirka> It has advantages and disadvantages
08:18 < kirka> I find GPUs complex to program
08:19 < ParahSailin_> they're harder than cpu, but nothing's ever free
08:19 < kirka> I agree
08:19 < ParahSailin_> every design make choices, and this sounds like the best of both worlds
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08:26 < ParahSailin_> hm, save die space by cutting out int math, i could believe that
08:27 < kirka> Note that there is no special FP functions
08:28 < kirka> But it's important that this architecture is completely new
08:28 < kirka> while both CPUs and GPUs are evolutionary developments
08:29 < kirka> Nvidia and Ati have to seek compromise between graphics and general computation
08:29 < ParahSailin_> im reading the whitepaper
08:30 < ParahSailin_> so this architecture, they're taking it to a foundry, or still looking for money?
08:31 < kirka> They are fabless, but they already have 4 generations of chips
08:31 < kirka> http://www.adapteva.com/
08:31 < kirka> http://www.adapteva.com/products/silicon-devices/e64g401/
08:31 < ParahSailin_> everyone's fabless except smc, samsung, intel, ibm
08:32 < kirka> I mean they are IP company
08:32 < ParahSailin_> is it in production i mean
08:32 < kirka> Looks like it is
08:32 < kirka> But I have found it just a hour ago
08:32 < kirka> I don't know it better than you
08:33 < kirka> I'd like 4 channel DDR controller btw
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09:43 <@kanzure> prediction: people will want to go to mars to hunt for bacteria fossils
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09:52 < streety> I suspect people will want to go to mars for a variety of reasons
10:01 < jrayhawk> woo another massively parallel chipset company that places seemingly zero emphasis on compilation
10:01 < jrayhawk> soon to be added to the pile of defunct companies that thought they could do the same thing
10:02 < eudoxia> but it says it's fully ANSI-C/C++ programmable :((((
10:06 < jrayhawk> "we're just as much of a pain in the ass to parallelize from the software end as existing architectures" is not exactly an encouraging claim
10:06 < ParahSailin_> i bet one could do some interesting haskell tools for it
10:06 < eudoxia> someone should write an LLVM backend for it
10:07 < eudoxia> it's got SIMD and vectorization and stuff I suppose must speed things up
10:09 < ParahSailin_> should be the designer's job to do that stuff though
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10:32 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: so the sha256 asic i mentioned to you is apparently being marketed to bitcoin miners, so i don't anticipate that being a "well kept secret".
10:32 <@kanzure> if somenoe was serious about bitcoin mining, i think a custom asic run would be in order. not using what everyone else is going to be using.
10:35 < ParahSailin_> i think there are a couple asics coming out for bitcoin hashing
10:35 < ParahSailin_> some might even be out
10:36 <@kanzure> *someone
10:36 <@kanzure> ParahSailin_: i'm surprised there's no "rainbow tables as a service" company yet.
10:36 <@kanzure> md5.gromweb.com only has 65 million entries, which is pathetic
10:37 <@kanzure> i'd gladly pay a few bucks to run something in the cloud for a few hours to fill out some rainbow tables, as long as i had access to a few billion entries
10:37 < ParahSailin_> is sha256 vulnerable to rainbow tables?
10:38 <@kanzure> don't rainbow tables work for anything that digests something?
10:39 < ParahSailin_> i only have vague understanding
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10:40 <@kanzure> ParahSailin_: well, for md5 rainbow tables, you just iterate through all possible combinations of bytes and dump out md5 hashes
10:40 <@kanzure> then you store the original text with the hash in a giant table
10:40 < ParahSailin_> yeah, i think sha256 is just too big to be practical
10:40 <@kanzure> what do you mean?
10:41 < jrayhawk> Well, you don't compute the whole space since that's cosmologically impossible, you just compute within the constraints you care about (typically [a-zA-Z0-9]{6-12})
10:41 <@kanzure> sure, sure.
10:41 <@kanzure> but 65 million is super pathetic
10:42 <@kanzure> and the fact that i have to setup my own ec2 instances for oshashcat or w/e gpgpu craptastic software, is sorta annoying
10:42 < ParahSailin_> what exactly do you want to do with hashing?
10:43 <@kanzure> i have lots of passwords in md5 format that i'd be interested in having in plaintext
10:43 <@kanzure> hah these guys will ship you some hard drives for $600 http://www.freerainbowtables.com/tables/
10:44 < ParahSailin_> whose passwords?
10:44 < ParahSailin_> some consulting job?
10:44 <@kanzure> nope.. just stuff like siai's database and other hilariously insecure things
10:45 < jrayhawk> hot damn, that's a pretty cool service
10:45 < ParahSailin_> isnt the standard way to just tell people their password is expired to force migration of user database?
10:45 < jrayhawk> i don't think you understand just what a bastard kanzure is
10:46 <@kanzure> i just like having these things.
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10:47 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: i'm not sure why they have to ship you hard drives
10:47 <@kanzure> why can't they just make you pay for online access?
10:47 <@kanzure> i suppose there's situations where having the entire table available is important
10:47 < jrayhawk> i assume privacy is important to a lot of people doing rainbow tabling
10:48 <@kanzure> if it's just for passwords, it's not like it's a big surprise that the passwords follow standard distribution curves :p
10:48 < streety> this is also presumably a cost to doing the lookup
10:48 < streety> *there is
10:48 < jrayhawk> yeah, but that cost would presumably be lower than $600
10:48 <@kanzure> hrm, i'm not sure how much time a single lookup would take on that much data
10:48 < streety> depends on the scale
10:48 <@kanzure> you could also conceivably use multiple machines to look on different parts of the data simultaneously
10:49 <@kanzure> or multiple processes or whatever the right scaling approach is.
10:49 < jrayhawk> yeah, you have to scale the costs of operating the hardware, which don't really scale
10:49 < jrayhawk> i.e. watt-hours
10:49 <@kanzure> and, since most password lookups follow the standard distribution, you could just memcache the most popular. for non-password things, you're shit out of luck and have to wait around a bit.
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10:53 <@kanzure> so, i might be wrong, but shouldn't it be possible to just do a billion copies of md5 on a single asic die
10:53 <@kanzure> and just load up your target into a register and let it spin around until it finds a hit?
10:54 < ParahSailin_> spend millions on an asic to crack an obsolete hash function
10:54 < jrayhawk> asics aren't expensive
10:54 < ParahSailin_> if you dont mind 500 um process
10:54 <@kanzure> not so obsolete.. everyone who is hilariously insecure happens to also use md5.
10:55 <@kanzure> if you are thoughtful enough to use something other than md5, you're probably thoughtful enough to patch your ancient version of php or whatever i use to get those hashes in the first place.
10:57 < ParahSailin_> er, 500nm process
10:58 <@kanzure> so, i haven't actually done a custom asic run before, but for some reason i have the crazy idea that it would cost maybe $10k for a single run
10:58 < jrayhawk> MOSIS and CMP have prices in about that range, yeah.
10:59 <@kanzure> http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/7042/how-much-does-it-cost-to-have-a-custom-asic-made
11:00 < ParahSailin_> http://cmp.imag.fr/products/ic/?p=prices
11:00 <@kanzure> "MOSIS doesn't publish their rates, but CMP's cheapest rate on a 0.35 micron process for 650 Euros/mm^2. A non-trivial design will probably cost $3000 or more for 40 chips."
11:00 <@kanzure> shit that's cheap
11:03 <@kanzure> does cmp also do packaging?
11:04 <@kanzure> they've only done 800 runs?
11:04 < jrayhawk> http://cmp.imag.fr/products/packaging/
11:04 < jrayhawk> keep in mind that a 'run' is potentially enormous
11:04 <@kanzure> one wafer?
11:04 < AdrienG> 3k for 40 chips?
11:04 < AdrienG> thats dirt cheap
11:04 < jrayhawk> one set of masks is usually used to make many wafers
11:05 < AdrienG> packaged or raw wafers?
11:05 < jrayhawk> and whatever design you give to them is but one of many in a given mask
11:05 < jrayhawk> which is why they're able to offer you decent prices
11:06 <@kanzure> packaging setup fee of €370 per lot
11:06 <@kanzure> hrm.
11:06 < ParahSailin_> 18kGates/mm^2 at .35um -- thats a lot more than i expected
11:07 < ParahSailin_> i figured it would be like 1 kGate
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11:22 < AdrienG> how do they test custom chips?
11:23 <@kanzure> maybe they don't
11:27 < AdrienG> then its more like 3k for 20 chips.
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11:55 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: i'd like to add wiki.iimarck.us to gnusha to show a certain piny ikiwiki instance. i'm ok with using secure.diyhpl.us for editing. how do i setup this virtual host with piny properly?
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12:09 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: i got it.
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12:44 < jrayhawk> oh good
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13:01 <@kanzure> so the pokemon rom hackers want me to make them a map editor in javascript
13:01 <@kanzure> but they want me to make it parse the rom or source code to find addresses
13:01 <@kanzure> instead of just editing files. how do i convince them that this is a terrible idea.
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13:13 < jrayhawk> aren't those ROMs static anyway
13:14 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: there's a large community of "rom hackers" that stare at hex editors all day to change bits around
13:14 <@kanzure> http://www.rijon.com/prism/
13:15 < jrayhawk> oh, well, i can see the need for a dynamic solution, at least, but i don't see that needing to be done clientside
13:15 <@kanzure> it's like a developer continuously losing source code to his game, and then deciding 'welp, might as well parse the binary instead of keeping track of my source code'
13:16 < jrayhawk> well, i guess it depends on exactly what you want to put in and what exactly you want to get out of your map editor
13:16 <@kanzure> also, prism is worth trying if you ever played the earlier games
13:16 < jrayhawk> if you want to input whole ROMs and get back out whole ROMs then you can avoid the distribution of derived protected works by making it all clientside
13:16 < chris_99> i love the look of this debugger for C64 http://icu64.blogspot.co.uk/
13:17 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: yeah, exactly. the rom hackers tend to just distribute patches that they apply to the roms.
13:17 <@kanzure> but i dumped all the maps into pokecrystal.git, and so far nobody from nintendo is sending me angry letters
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13:27 < Sanqui> jrayhawk, kanzure: I don't think anybody should care about "protected works", the sonic community has had perfect disassemblies for like ten years
13:31 < ParahSailin_> kanzure, the people who work at nintendo who would understand what pokecrystal.git is don't care because they're on salary, and the lawyers who get bonuses for harassment don't know what github is yet
13:36 < AdrienG> poke her crystals
13:37 < Sanqui> okay, I lied.  the first sonic disassembly: 0930​223514» <+MainMemory> sometime before 2005
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13:55 < jrayhawk> no way is kanzure going to let the sonic community upstage the pokemon community
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14:43 < strangewarp> http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/138154/neil-gershenfeld/how-to-make-almost-anything?page=show
14:43 < strangewarp> "One of the assemblers we are developing works with components that are a bit bigger than amino acids, cluster of atoms about ten nanometers long (an amino acid is around one nanometer long). These can have properties that amino acids cannot, such as being good electrical conductors or magnets. The goal is to use the nanoassembler to build nanostructures, such as 3-D integrated circuits."
14:43 < strangewarp> Any thoughts about this guy?
14:43 < strangewarp> (afk, will read the backlog when I get back)
14:44 < eudoxia> I sure hope he's not hyping up a 3d printed atomic force microscope
14:47 <@kanzure> strangewarp: gershenfeld is well known because of fablabs and mit media lab
14:48 <@kanzure> also, he wrote cad.py
15:07 <@kanzure> i should port the biocurious wiki to diyhpluswiki
15:07 <@kanzure> there's no reason to be using pbwiki
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15:44 <@kanzure> hrm https://github.com/defunkt/hub
15:45 <@kanzure> git pull-request "I've implemented feature X" -b defunkt:master -h mislav:feature
15:45 <@kanzure> i guess that might be useful, maybe.
15:59 < strangewarp> Hmm, so Gershenfield might not be talking out his ass, then.. that's pretty rad
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17:36 <@kanzure> i need to find someone who was an actual member of the "homebrew computer club" to write an angry rant about how people should stop comparing shit to them.
17:57 < ParahSailin_> transistors:computers::molecules:singularity
17:57 <@kanzure> well, i just saw someone on the makerbot mailing list who made this drupal site for.. uh.. i guess selling ads or something.. about 3d printing.. yeah, that must be it
17:57 <@kanzure> and he's saying it will be like a homebrew computer club
17:57 <@kanzure> fact: your crappy drupal site is completely unlike the homebrew computer club.
17:58 <@kanzure> it's even worse than calling diybio that
18:04 < brownies> haha
18:04 < brownies> we can just compare random bullshit projects to the homebrew computer club now?
18:06 <@kanzure> yes
18:06 <@kanzure> you know what, fuck that
18:06 <@kanzure> brownies: from now on, compare everything to the manhatten project
18:06 < brownies> no, need something less offensive
18:06 <@kanzure> no, to the space race
18:06 < brownies> "basically, our web app devleopment team is just like CERN"
18:06 <@kanzure> hahah
18:07 <@kanzure> "Our particles are high energy"
18:07 < brownies> "if you think about it, CERN is basically just a series of tubes"
18:07 < brownies> ...i could get a good blog post about this
18:07 <@kanzure> oh god what have i done
18:07 < brownies> "Run your startup like a high-energy particle accelerator"
18:08 <@kanzure> well, to be fair, it's probably better than the other crap they're doing
18:08 < brownies> hahah
18:08 <@kanzure> i don't understand how they all gravitate to the same comparison though
18:08 <@kanzure> like, you guys can't all be the reincarnation of the homebrew computer club
18:09 < streety> maybe it's catching
18:09 < brownies> it's viral!
18:10 <@kanzure> "Many of the original members of the Homebrew Computer Club continue to meet (as of 2009), having formed the 6800 Club, named after the Motorola (now Freescale) 6800 microprocessor."
18:10 <@kanzure> oh look, they even still meet
18:10 <@kanzure> i bet these douchebags calling themselves reincarnations of the homebrew computer club have never gone to a 6800 meeting
18:15 < streety> "like the homebrew computer club" doesn't seem like much of a claim, from the way wikipedia reads every computing/programming meetup I've been to is "like the homebrew computer club"
18:16 < streety> granted so far they haven't had quite the same impact
18:16 <@kanzure> the difference is that people don't go around saying their twitter clone is like "the moomoo mobile mondays of boston"
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20:23 <@kanzure> ugh. now people are spamming diybio with their surveys. today is a survey from "desktop genetics".
20:24 < yashgaroth> "How many plasmids are you making at the moment" man who even knows these days how many plasmids they're making
20:25 <@kanzure> "2mg"
20:27 < yashgaroth> Q:  How many people are in your lab and who also make plasmids?
20:27 < yashgaroth> o Less than 2
20:27 < yashgaroth> o 2-5
20:27 <@kanzure> hmmm
20:27 < yashgaroth> if only there were a shorter way to say '1', oh wait
20:27 <@kanzure> nobody roles their own plasmids
20:27 <@kanzure> there's not going to be multiple people makin' new plasmids
20:29 < yashgaroth> is it too passe to say that making 20 different gene compiler programs doesn't make things easier for biologists?
20:30 <@kanzure> nope, go right ahead and say it
20:31 <@kanzure> you should tell them to just work on a single open source project instead of making proprietary crap that doesn't even work yet
20:31 < yashgaroth> exactly, it's not like there's megabux to be made in this software
20:31 <@kanzure> i don't even know what they are expecting to do.. make visualization widgets? that's what that "herf derf i'm with mozilla" guy keeps blabbering about.
20:31 <@kanzure> connor.
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20:32 < yashgaroth> trying to apply web 3.0, or whatever version we're on, to biology somehow just speaks to their ignorance of biology
20:33 <@kanzure> eh he might be going for desktop dna synthesis ("desktop genetics")
20:33 < yashgaroth> nah
20:40  * delinquentme is running biology 6.04 Natucket  nanner
20:40  * delinquentme nods
20:40 < delinquentme> alsoooo if anyone is in ohio feel free to come hang out :D
20:41 < yashgaroth> oh apparently they do have bio backgrounds, which explains why their linkedin links on "gust" are broken
20:42 < yashgaroth> also http://m4.licdn.com/media/p/4/000/17d/3fd/2847097.jpg "hundread" sounds legit
20:42 <@kanzure> $7500 for a survey?
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21:15 <@kanzure> wow there's an attendance fee to go to genspace meetings?
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21:20 < cpopell> What's up all?
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22:05 < skorket> just got back from maker faire
22:10 < brownies> which one?
22:11 < skorket> nyc
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22:32 < brownies> at 1am on a sunday?
22:33 < yashgaroth> sounds about right
22:34 < skorket> I'm in Ithaca
22:34 < skorket> left at around 5pm, hit bad traffic, just got home
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23:07 < Mariu> Ithaca - New York ?
23:07 < Mariu> nice
23:07 < Mariu> got a friend there
23:19 < Mariu> what're you doing in Ithaca? Are you with Cornell?
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--- Log closed Mon Oct 01 00:00:42 2012