--- Log opened Wed Oct 10 00:00:05 2012
--- Day changed Wed Oct 10 2012
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00:25 <@kanzure> boop
00:29 <@kanzure> anyone want the drugstack.com domain?
00:29 < Mokstar> ugh
00:32 <@kanzure> no?
00:47 < Mokstar> I'll pass
00:47 < Mokstar> I don't need any more embarassing domain names :p
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03:46 < bkero> heh
03:48  * bkero registers socialmobilecloud.com
03:54 < brownies> you're behind the times, man!
03:54 < brownies> you need socialmobileLOCATIONcloud.com
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05:49 < Urchin> nah, socialmobilelocationservicecloud.com
05:49 < Urchin> more buzzwords
06:26 < exiff> Yikes
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06:36 < JayDugger> No, nsh. The transhumanists have always been at war with the Eastasia. Report to Room 101.
06:43 <@kanzure> is packt publishing good/bad/evil?
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07:10 <@kanzure> "The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences said U.S. scientists Robert Lefkowitz (left) and Brian Kobilka made groundbreaking discoveries on an important family of receptors, known as G-protein-coupled receptors."
07:10 <@kanzure> so G-protein stuff just got the nobel prize.. seems like it took long enough
07:15 < archels> folding@home up and running
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08:14 <@kanzure> [OpenSCAD] Feature request: Introduce TCP connection to openscad
08:14 <@kanzure> wtf
08:15 <@kanzure> i don't think it even compiles without the gui yet
08:16 <@kanzure> "
08:16 <@kanzure> "New! LulzBot AO-100 3D printer now FSF-certified to respect your freedom" http://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/endorsement/respects-your-freedom/
08:16 <@kanzure> http://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/endorsement/criteria
08:16 <@kanzure> seems weird to see fsf accepting something named "lulz"
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08:54 < brownies> they actually named it the LulzBot? o.O
08:56 <@kanzure> well, i named my cad library "lolcad" so..
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11:34 < mikerbot> hi!
11:34 <@kanzure> hello
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11:36 < mikerbot> I'm procrastinating.. I'm supposed to be working on making a new site for grindhouse wetware. Found this channel while researching things. How are you!
11:37 < Juul> hey mikerbot
11:37 <@kanzure> grindhouse is so disappointing.
11:37 <@kanzure> so far they have published lots of articles about yelling at other transhumanists
11:37 < mikerbot> ooh give us a second, we're working on it!
11:37 < mikerbot> I know...
11:37 <@kanzure> you shouldn't use google sites in general
11:38 < mikerbot> I'm not too stoked on the hate either, doesn't seem productive. I don't think that was really the intent of most of the negative comments though
11:38 < mikerbot> oh I know, I'm getting rid of the whole thing
11:38 <@kanzure> i have noticed a strong trend of trying to segregate the community
11:38 <@kanzure> anyway, whatever. don't bring any of that in here and you're safe.
11:39 <@kanzure> if you don't have time, you should probably just pay $1 to buy some crap on themeforest for a site
11:40 < Juul> kanzure, link to one of those articles?
11:41 <@kanzure> Juul: one moment..
11:42 <@kanzure> http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-09/04/diy-biohacking
11:42 <@kanzure> it picks on natasha vita-more, who they claim is a "mainstream" "transhumanist"
11:43 <@kanzure> "Cannon says the general consensus from the transhumanist community is that the team is "stupid for dreaming". "
11:43 <@kanzure> what a load of crap
11:43 <@kanzure> the general consensus is that it's lame because magnets aren't that useful, not that they are "stupid for dreaming"
11:43 <@kanzure> they are completely misrepresenting biohacking/transhumanist views there.. just saying.
11:47 < Mokstar> jeez, are you still on about that?
11:48 <@kanzure> Mokstar: he asked!
11:48 < Mokstar> oh
11:48 <@kanzure> yeah..
11:48 < mikerbot> that article is published by wired, and not written by us. We're attempting to make the magnets useful. I... didn't really ask
11:48 <@kanzure> mikerbot: not you. juul asked. look above.
11:48 < jrayhawk> magnets are still badass screw you guys
11:49 < jrayhawk> fucking magnets
11:49 < mikerbot> lol
11:49 <@kanzure> mikerbot: but really, i think themeforest is your quickest option for your next site
11:49 < mikerbot> I think mine are pretty bad ass, and useful!
11:49 <@kanzure> or what's that other big one..
11:50 <@kanzure> wtf why does themeforest advertise itself as a wordpress theme site?
11:50 < Mokstar> on the one hand you have armchair dreamers yammering on about rehashed cyberpunk themes, and on the other hand you have jammed a magnet into your finger, hoping to one day find a practical use for it
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11:52 < Mokstar> I really want to move into the "post-fingermagnet" era
11:53 < Juul> kanzure, thanks.
11:53 < jrayhawk> hey, whatever, body mod folks will be performing crazy self-surgeries with or without experimental parameters
11:53 < Juul> it doesn't seem useful for either "camp" to put down the work of the other
11:53 < jrayhawk> may as well make 'em interesting and cool experimental parameters
11:54 <@kanzure> Juul: "live and let live" is what lets creationism stay around
11:54 < Mokstar> it doesn't seem useful for anybody to suggest that there are camps
11:54 <@kanzure> Mokstar: agreed
11:54 < Mokstar> just... work, and collaborate
11:54 <@kanzure> there are a lot of downsides to magnets, and you shouldn't separate a community just around that silly topic.
11:55 <@kanzure> s/around that silly/around one silly/
11:55 < Mokstar> though, to be fair, all publications have an incentive to drive controversy, and humans have a natural tendency to form competing groups
11:55 <@kanzure> it's also weird to see multiple groups "claiming" to have invented biohacking
11:56 <@kanzure> like dave asprey is claiming he "biohacked" his penis or something, and that he invented the term
11:56 <@kanzure> and then there's lucas who is claiming lepht invented biohacking because magnets
11:56 < Mokstar> I biohacked my finger once, took ages to heal
11:56 < Juul> kanzure, i don't really agree with that but i also don't feel like it's useful to spend the next half hour talking about that whole mess
11:56 <@kanzure> then there's the biohacking folks from the diybio community
11:56 < Mokstar> just about biohacked it off with a knife while cutting up sweet potatoes
11:56  * Juul goes back to the codes
11:57 <@kanzure> Juul: i moved on to talking about themeforest, i think Mokstar is the one who brought up the continued discussion. i'm really not as interested as you think i am.
11:57 < mikerbot> I agree, but constructive criticism should be part of anything that calls itself a community... for instance, I think its reckless to be cutting yourself open without proper training and materials... and I'll frown at anyone that encourages others to do so....
11:57 <@kanzure> oh i guess i had my anti-live-and-let-live comment.
11:57 < Mokstar> I just noticed you mentioning it again without much attention paid in between, so it appeared as though you were still concerned
11:57 < Juul> kanzure, ok
11:58 < Mokstar> err, *I* didn't pay much attention
11:58 < Mokstar> mikerbot: I'd  be less worried about the cutting part and more worried about leaching from the implanted object
11:59 <@kanzure> mikerbot: are you subscribed to the diybio discussions?
11:59 < mikerbot> kanzure: I am not! I should be
11:59 < Mokstar> is neodymium toxic?
11:59 < Mokstar> oh wait.. thye probably don't use neo's
11:59 <@kanzure> mikerbot: email diybio+subscribe@googlegroups.com
12:00 <@kanzure> mikerbot: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq
12:00 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/groups
12:00 < mikerbot> neodymium has a pretty low toxicity. Mine are platted in nickel, then parylene C
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12:02 <@kanzure> mikerbot: also there's lots of historical context worth being aware of http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/news
12:02 < Mokstar> mikerbot: have you played with intentionally generating fields to map out the sensations available?
12:02 < Mokstar> maybe with a de-cored stepper motor
12:04 < mikerbot> Mokstar: I have, I need to do more, and work out some calculations too, I'd like to be able to describe them empirically
12:04 < Mokstar> I've thought about it as a communications channel
12:05 < Mokstar> or potentially incorporated into the northpaw project
12:05 < mikerbot> Mokstar: my favorite is actually a microwave running on high and empty
12:05 < mikerbot> we might like our bottlenose project.. it is that, the current version has a sonar module
12:06 <@kanzure> hey so if you guys have the time to be working on a hardware project, can you build this instead?
12:06 < mikerbot> *you might like
12:06 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/ultrasound/
12:06 <@kanzure> it's much more specific than tdcs
12:06 < Mokstar> you wanna test it first?
12:06 <@kanzure> who are you asking?
12:06 < Mokstar> the mouse who suggested putting the bell on the cat :p
12:07 <@kanzure> huh? what's wrong with the mouse testing?
12:07 <@kanzure> there's some youtube videos demonstrating tests on mice, i think replicating that is a good idea
12:07 < Mokstar> kanzure: you wanna test it first?
12:08 <@kanzure> i can't test it without a prototype, and i don't have time to build a prototype at the moment.
12:08 < Mokstar> oddly, I'm more frightened of ultrasound than I am of tMS or tDCS
12:08 <@kanzure> yeah, ultrasound can be very dangerous
12:09 < Mokstar> I keep thinking about this anecodotal report of a fellow who had a bottlenose dolphin grind a bone-spur from his arm
12:09 <@kanzure> but when you dial down the energy delivered per millimeter it seems to be much more useful
12:09 <@kanzure> per sq millimeter
12:09 <@kanzure> well, cubic
12:09 < mikerbot> looks like it! I still haven't tried tDCS.. as far as I understand the papers and user experiences it seems to sum up as "It does something, and its weird"
12:10 <@kanzure> there was one paper that tried to do tdcs targetting but it didn't get that far
12:10 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/tdcs/
12:10 < mikerbot> Mokstar: I want a link to that dolphin bone spur surgeon
12:10 <@kanzure> http://brmlab.cz/project/brain_hacking/tdcs
12:10 < Mokstar> trying to find it
12:10 <@kanzure> so being able to point transducers at particular locations seems more helpful
12:10 <@kanzure> rather than a generic "dude this does funky things to your brain" device
12:14 < Mokstar> nope, not finding it
12:14 < Mokstar> now, I'm not saying it actually happened
12:15 < Mokstar> I just remember it when I think about tUS
12:16 < Mokstar> http://www.acoustics.org/press/161st/Porter.html
12:17 <@kanzure> "coated microbubbles" eh? i guess that's not quite a capsule.
12:18 < Mokstar> that's... not what I wanted to share... 1 sec
12:19 < Mokstar> yes it was
12:19 < Mokstar> http://www.histotripsy.umich.edu/
12:20 < Mokstar> though, at first glance that just seems like forced metastasis to me...
12:20 <@kanzure> yeah, if you look in http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/ultrasound/ there's some clinical trails of using ultrasound for treating brain tumors.... by melting them.
12:20 <@kanzure> i wonder if melting is the correct word.
12:21 <@kanzure> "non-invasive image guided cavitational ultrasound therapy (histotripsy)" interesting, i didn't know people were calling it histotripsy. sounds sort of made up though :)
12:21 < Mokstar> it's kind of catchy
12:21 <@kanzure> histoshooting-ultrasound-at-you
12:22 < Mokstar> "The Brain Melter"
12:22 <@kanzure> variable-power brain melting apparatus
12:23 <@kanzure> "Using a method of transcranial US brain stimulation with an acoustic collimating tube (d = 2mm), an estimate of the volume of cortical activation maybe =~ 3 mm^3 as indicated by c-fos activity (Figure 15)."
12:23 <@kanzure> "The 1.5-2.0 mm lateral area of activation observed represents a more reliable measure and is approximately five times better than the =~ 1cm lateral spatial resolution offered by transcranial magnetic stimulatino (TMS) (Barker, 1999). Due to the millimeter spatial resolutions conferred by US, structured US fields may be used to drive patterned activation in sparsely distributed brain circuits."
12:23 <@kanzure> stimulatino? i guess i typoed that. that seems like a typo i'd do.
12:27 < Mokstar> yeah, but you'd have to couple that with imaging
12:27 <@kanzure> why?
12:27 < Mokstar> a 2mm spot?
12:28 <@kanzure> at most maybe only one high resolution image of the brain to do coordinate mapping
12:28 < Mokstar> I don't know about you, but when I use a rifle I like having decent optics on it :p
12:28 < Mokstar> fair enough
12:29 <@kanzure> nobody is suggesting using an ultrasound stimulator without testing, calibration or anything else like that.
12:29 <@kanzure> just as nobody is recommending using tdcs without such testing.
12:30 < Mokstar> right, I guess I'm just not familiar with the technology used to identify points of interest in 3d space without realtime imaging
12:30 <@kanzure> .... i hope
12:30 <@kanzure> Mokstar: it's all unusable junk. most of the neuro-coordinate software stuff are old, broked java applets or worse.
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13:32 < eudoxia> mikerbot: that's pretty cool, the original site was pretty urrgghhhhh
13:32 < eudoxia> or, rather, is
13:34 < mikerbot> oh I know! I should have a new one up in a day or so. if you'd like to check out the work in progress I uploaded it to http://www.tessascheckner.com/grindhouse/index.html
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13:35 < eudoxia> mikerbot oohhhh much better
13:36 < kanzure> mikerbot: have you considered not using <table> and <td>
13:36 < kanzure> and so many spacer.gifs?
13:36 < kanzure> is this from themeforest?
13:37 < eudoxia> mikerbot I suggest the following instead of spacer .gifs:
13:37 < eudoxia> hr {margin:20px auto; border:2px dotted #dfdfdf;clear:both;}
13:37 < mikerbot> thats just me being lazy and over using the slice tool in photoshop
13:38 < eudoxia> and Open Sans Book 300 for the section titles
13:38 < mikerbot> ah good call
13:38 < mikerbot> thanks
13:38 < kanzure> mikerbot: i think it's far faster if you just use something that already exists instead of monkeying around in photoshop
13:39 < kanzure> i mean, if you're going to be doing web development and if you insist on doing customizing it yourself, you might want to consider learning about stylesheets, for instance..
13:40 < eudoxia> sometimes using <table> is ok, like how I never really noticed SA's site was exclusively <table>s all over
13:40 < kanzure> well, copying and pasting css strings everywhere isn't ok
13:41 < kanzure> or, it demonstrates a lack of understanding of technology here
13:41 < eudoxia> s/SA/Suspended Animation
13:41 < kanzure> eudoxia: transhumanists are supposed to be at the forefront of technology, not at the butt end
13:41 < eudoxia> yeah
13:41 < kanzure> s/supposed to/supposedly
13:41 < kanzure> or at least.. erm.. well make that into a sentence
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13:43 < mikerbot> oh well, it only took a second in photoshop really, and I have some free time. Its a small site.. I could CSS it up, but it would probably take me longer than would be worth it.
13:44 < kanzure> do you know what the concept of "technical debt" refers to?
13:45 < Mokstar> the credit card I use to buy phones, tablets, and TVs with?
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13:47 < mikerbot> lol, mmm alright alright.
13:47 < kanzure> oh, maybe "technical drag" is a better term
13:47 < kanzure> anyway, templating systems exist because editing multiple files when you change your template or stylesheet is silly
13:48 < kanzure> and stylesheets are referenced by URI because people tend to like changing something only once
13:49 < Sanky> you can make sites in photoshop?
13:49 < eudoxia> I was equally surprised
13:50 < kanzure> Sanky: http://psd2html.com/ does "fancypants" slicing
13:50 < kanzure> where they slice your psd up into semantic html
13:50 < Sanky> scary
13:50 < kanzure> but there's a default plugin somewhere that dumps out stuff with the same quality on the order of dreamweaver output
13:51 < kanzure> haha what? psd2html is advertising they have 370 employees. holy carp.
13:51 < kanzure> i guess the slice shop model scales for them.
13:51 < kanzure> s/slice shop/chop shop/
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14:22 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: e6d0ae0 Corrected name of BUGSS, added BUGSS founders
14:28 < kanzure> holy crap a contributor
14:28 < kanzure> i think that was Steven Stowell <scstowell@gmail.com>
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15:21 < jrayhawk> nmz787: do you have a move date yet? there's random biotech industry events i can notify you about, but i don't know what the cutoff would be
15:22 < Mokstar> nmz787: leaving portland, eh?
15:22 < Mokstar> what's $other_city got that Portland don't got?!?
15:25 < jrayhawk> no, he's moving *to* portland
15:26 < Mokstar> ohhhh
15:26  * Mokstar looks at the date.
15:26 < Mokstar> dangit, went too far back this time
15:26 < Mokstar> bbl
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15:52 < nmz787> jrayhawk: tenatively getting there 23rd or 24th
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17:15 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: 6862622 biohacking article on radar.oreilly.com
17:16 < kanzure> hmm
17:16 < kanzure> http://radar.oreilly.com/2012/10/biohacking.html
17:16 < kanzure> so maybe it's endy who has been telling the media "it's like silicon valley!"
17:17 < kanzure> this sounds like drew's influence to me: "In short, synthetic biology is going through the same transition in usability that computing saw in the ’70s and ’80s."
17:17 < brownies> "DNA is similar to machine language (except it’s in base four, rather than binary), and in principle hacking DNA isn’t much different from hacking machine code."
17:17 < brownies> oh, clearly, it's so simple.
17:21 < gnusha> diyhpluswiki.git: cc835ae an old radar.oreilly.com article about biocurious
17:21 < kanzure> brownies: hah, i didn't even see that. brilliant.
17:23 < kanzure> look at omri pimping his software in the comments
17:23 < kanzure> that guy has no shame.
17:25 < brownies> that's called "viral marketing"
17:26 < brownies> ooh, accidental biology pun.
17:26 < kanzure> i like how he argued all of his customer feedback from diybio
17:26 < kanzure> s/argued/ignored
17:26 < kanzure> i guess he argued it too
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18:23 < kanzure> i just received an email in chinese with this attached: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/images/推广图片.jpg
18:23 < kanzure> i'm surprised the great firewall of china doesn't auto-filter out that image
18:24 < yashgaroth> it's red and there's a clenched fist, sounds compatible with the firewall
18:24 < kanzure> let's make some fake chinese biohacking propaganda
18:25 < yashgaroth> just replace the AK-47s with pipettors and syringes and you're golden
18:25 < kanzure> angry pipetting
18:25 < ParahSailin> kanzure, you need a translation on that?
18:25 < kanzure> nah, i'm sure it's spam
18:26 < ParahSailin> 买家 == capitalism
18:27 < ParahSailin> the rest can be figured out from the pictures
18:30 < kanzure> let's make up a secret chinese biohacking group, that uh.. um..
18:30 < kanzure> is sponsored by the government?
18:32 < JayDugger> Which government? I suggest the Australians.
18:32 < yashgaroth> hey they already support regular hackers, it's not a huge stretch
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18:52 < nmz787> why is there not annual weather info on the interstates compiled into something useful?
18:53 < kanzure> nmz787: or weather integrated into google maps for trip routing?
18:57 < nmz787> that would work i guess, but i know that I need to drive on I-80 through nebraska and wyoming, and I know those streches have gates on them so you can't continue driving in bad weather (you have to exit)
18:57 < nmz787> so knowing there are possible bad areas, why can't i find averages for them easily
19:02 < JayDugger> I suspect that happens because you look for data over an area very different from the area where weather gets collected.
19:02 < JayDugger> You might find long histories of weather data from a specific airport. You want data over a route.
19:03 < JayDugger> It would help a great deal, though.
19:03 < JayDugger> I suggest listing your route's start and end points, and adding as many towns or zip codes crossed by
19:03 < JayDugger> your route to that list.
19:04 < JayDugger> Then you can go to a site such as weatherspark.com and check your list against the averages it provides.
19:04 < JayDugger> If you've already done that and found the results or method wanting, please say so. :)
19:13 < kanzure> um yeah how about something that doesn't involve manual labor
19:13 < kanzure> like software
19:14 < nmz787> weatherspark will take a list JayDugger?
19:14 < nmz787> yeah like I just wikipediaed boise idaho to look at the average temp and precip
19:15 < nmz787> both are low, but there is a slight chance i could pass through on the day it drops precip and i could be screwed
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19:30 < JayDugger> Is the goal safe travel? Did I miss the point?
19:31 < nmz787> yes
19:31 < kanzure> nathan is secretly a tornado chaser
19:31 < nmz787> i'm towing a trailer from NY to OR
19:31 < kanzure> ever since the hurricanes stole his uh.. um.. petri dishes, he's been on a quest of vengeance ever since
19:31 < yashgaroth> it looks pretty clear right now, get truckin'
19:32 < nmz787> not leaving for a weel
19:32 < nmz787> week
19:33 < JayDugger> the saga of Nathan's Glassware Vengeance Quest! chanted far into the future around the fires of humanity's degenerate descendants
19:33 < kanzure> aww why do they have to be degenerate descendants..
19:34 < JayDugger> Because humanity's non-degenerate descendants had better be doing something incomprehensible to v1.0 types such as myself.
19:35 < nmz787> i do think of that movie The Postman, since his paradise was in the pacific northwest
19:36 < nmz787> i figure as long as none of those volcanoes around there blows, its a pretty safe better for staying alive and well fed in event of apocalypse
19:37 < yashgaroth> abundant water and hydroelectric power
19:37 < JayDugger> I paid very little for electricity when I lived in Portland, OR.
19:37 < kanzure> paying for things?
19:38 < nmz787> berkeley power was really cheap too
19:38 < JayDugger> My most expensive monthly bill came to a whole fourteen dollars.
19:38 < yashgaroth> I find it slightly humorous that the PNW has abundant cloud cover, and that the cheap electricity leads to a lot of the 'cloud' being based there
19:45 < nmz787> http://i.minus.com/ibeAS04W42YB04.gif
19:45 < nmz787> 'involved in a wreck walk away like a boss.'
19:45 < nmz787> i  wonder if he was wearing his seatbelt
19:52 < nmz787> :O http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/09/99-raspberry-pi-sized-supercomputer-touted-in-kickstarter-project/
19:52 < nmz787> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/adapteva/parallella-a-supercomputer-for-everyone
19:53 < kanzure> so that gif reminded me of an old phone call i had with tudor boloni
19:53 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/2010-04-13-tudor-boloni.txt
19:53 < kanzure> go to the hyperthermia section, it's hilarious.
19:53 < kanzure> this was back when i was able to type a transcript of a phone call with someone and still maintain a reasonable conversation (it's harder to do that now because i try to be more thoughtful about what i say)
19:54 < jrayhawk> 10:01 < jrayhawk> woo another massively parallel chipset company that places seemingly zero emphasis on compilation
19:54 < jrayhawk> 10:01 < jrayhawk> soon to be added to the pile of defunct companies that thought they could do the same thing
19:54 < jrayhawk> 10:02 < eudoxia> but it says it's fully ANSI-C/C++ programmable :((((
19:54 < jrayhawk> 10:06 < jrayhawk> "we're just as much of a pain in the ass to parallelize from the software end as existing architectures" is not exactly an encouraging claim
19:55 < kanzure> it's too bad there's no centralized debunking service.
19:56 < nmz787> jrayhawk: but since its OSHW and open software, can't that change?
19:56 < nmz787> parallax propeller is parallel and easy as hell to use
19:58 < kanzure> oh that's right, that call with tudor boloni ended up being about some linksharing scheme. hah!
19:59 < JayDugger> So...did Mr. Boloni steal that idea from Michael Kube-McDowell's "Lifebomb"?
20:00 < kanzure> not sure. elaborate?
20:00 < JayDugger> Lifebomb linkdump:
20:00 < JayDugger> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0716957/
20:00 < JayDugger> http://youtu.be/9OW6RLO7lyU
20:02 < JayDugger> An implanted device preserves patients from sudden death by explosively cocooning the human and applying medical care until help arrives.
20:02 < JayDugger> (Yeah, I saw it on TV as a kid.)
20:02 < kanzure> neat. in this case tudor was talking about injecting some salts into the bloodstream with some other cryoprotectants.
20:02 < JayDugger> The episode turns into the usual "rich people aren't really happy" morality play.
20:03 < JayDugger> "Your backpack actually converts into a life-caccoon. Two chemical bombs go off? You go into stasis, they pick you up the next day and you're safe."
20:04 < nmz787> watching now
20:04 < JayDugger> Start at 4:20 and watch for a minute or so.
20:05 < kanzure> JayDugger: you can append #t=260 to start at 4:20
20:05 < JayDugger> Pretty impressive salesmanship.
20:06 < JayDugger> So no good will come of parallella, eh?
20:22 < nmz787> seems like some good should
20:24 < nmz787> that video was a little underwhelming
20:24 < nmz787> the concept actually seems OK, but it wouldn't prevent him dying of say HIV
20:24 < nmz787> or AIDS rather
20:26 < kanzure> huh? you contract HIV and then suddenly a cacoon explodes around you?
20:27 < nmz787> yeah wouldn't help
20:28 < nmz787> the lifebomb had sensors implanted so in life threatening conditions it explodes a life support cocoon around you
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20:30 < skorket> evening all
20:33 < nmz787> hi
20:33 < nmz787> watching stuff, so not really here
21:11 < AdrienG> some rich ppl are pretty messed up allright
21:11 < AdrienG> but i think it has more to do with the pointlessness of their existence, than being rich.
21:12 < kanzure> and some rich people aren't messed up
21:12 < kanzure> there's nothing wrong with having money
21:12 < AdrienG> there is never too much money.
21:12 < AdrienG> only too many other rich people.
21:12 < kanzure> huh?
21:12 < kanzure> do you just hate rich people or something?
21:12 < kanzure> or do you think they must be miserable because you want them to be?
21:12 < AdrienG> no, i just would like to be richer than the next guy.
21:13 < AdrienG> money is just something we use to keep score, really.
21:13 < kanzure> ok. how exactly does you wanting to be rich mean that other rich people are mssed up?
21:13 < kanzure> *messed
21:13 < AdrienG> ?
21:13 < kanzure> i don't follow your train of thought here.
21:13 < AdrienG> i think you misread everything i typed.
21:13 < kanzure> "the pointlessness of their existence"
21:14 < kanzure> are you making an argument stating that every rich person has to feel pointlessness?
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21:16 < AdrienG> kanzure: no.
21:16 < AdrienG> the miserable rich people are those that lead that type of existance.
21:17 < AdrienG> then there is the other kind,.
21:17 < kanzure> ok. can you name a particular miserable rich person, or are you talking about a stereotype/strawman?
21:17 < AdrienG> its just that being rich allows them to lead that pointless existance w/o starving
21:17 < AdrienG> kanzure: there are plenty of useless rich kids
21:18 < AdrienG> i never said "every" or that money cause it lol.
21:18 < kanzure> we're not talking about useless, you said miserable
21:18 < AdrienG> kanzure: its their uselessness that makes the miserable.
21:18 < AdrienG> they just lead pointless lives.
21:18 < kanzure> ok look, my point is that you're being incomprehensible and you should stop talking -_-
21:18 < AdrienG> re-read my lines again.
21:18 < AdrienG> maybe you need some nootropics :o
21:22 < jrayhawk> Born Rich was sorta fun to watch. People born into wealthy families have really screwy philosophy/psychology to maintain self-esteem.
21:25 < kanzure> jrayhawk: do i have a screwy psychology?
21:25 < kanzure> i mean, comparatively to whatever you're talking about
21:26 < jrayhawk> nope, sorry
21:26 < kanzure> alas
21:27 < jrayhawk> well, i guess maybe
21:27 < kanzure> there is yet hope
21:29 < jrayhawk> you do seem to have a very strong compulsion towards productivity, but i get the impression you had that before you had awareness of your advantages
21:29 < AdrienG> kanzure is some billionaire's kid?
21:33 < jrayhawk> like, the big problem with all the kids in Born Rich was that they can't really escape being/having been enormous social leeches as a result of circumstance, so they have to invent dimensions of self-worth that don't involve normal human utility
21:35 < jrayhawk> you seem to be on track to avoid some of that because your utility as measured by wage is on a reasonable track to at least match your social cost as measured by inheritance
21:36 < jrayhawk> but i don't know if there's a correlation there
21:37 < jrayhawk> and, of course, you create a lot of 'public good' utility that can't realistically be measured by income
21:38 < kanzure> obviously i should be subsidized by the government to continue providing a public good utility
21:38 < jrayhawk> DARPA funds a lot of cool public goods
21:38 < jrayhawk> occasionally the NSA does, too
21:39 < jrayhawk> We got the internet! And ReiserFS!
21:41 < ParahSailin> hey if you're born rich, you either go into a pe firm, a political position, or stay out of sight, depending how rich you are
21:43 < kanzure> anyway, the original argument that rich people must be meaningless or pointless is silly
21:43 < jrayhawk> anyway, if i had a large inheretance, i would probably be philosophically/psychologically crushed by it and *try* to maximize measurable utility in a manner similar to you, but i would also probably be crippled enough fending off neurotic self-contempt that i wouldn't be any good at it
21:43 < kanzure> or i think the right term might be speciest?
21:44 < jrayhawk> you don't seem to have much in the way of neurotic self-contempt, so i assume you just got lucky and happen to really like providing a lot of utility
21:45 < kanzure> i do some pretty terriblet hings.. like i subject myself to files with uppercase characters
21:45 < kanzure> *terrible things
21:45 < kanzure> but ok
21:46 < ParahSailin> compared to most of the world i was born rich
21:46 < kanzure> probably
21:46 < ParahSailin> born white in america
21:50 < AdrienG> wats pe film
21:50 < jrayhawk> private enterprise firm?
21:51 < AdrienG> oh firm
21:51 < AdrienG> private equity, gotcha.
21:51 < jrayhawk> oh, yeah, okay
21:51 < AdrienG> i was liek, wats a pe fi_l_m
21:51 < AdrienG> penile extension films?
21:51 < jrayhawk> a goldmine
21:51 < jrayhawk> THERE'S GOLD IN THEM THERE PHALLUSES
21:58 < AdrienG> is u gay
22:00 < jrayhawk> 'u' resents the question and refuses to dignify it with an answer
22:01 < jrayhawk> furthermore, you shouldn't anthropomorphize letters; they hate that
22:09 < AdrienG> i like ur point of view on u.
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