--- Log opened Thu Nov 15 00:00:14 2012
00:05 < kanzure> Starting web server: apache2ulimit: 88: error setting limit (Operation not permitted)
00:05 < kanzure> apache2: Syntax error on line 207 of /etc/apache2/apache2.conf: Could not open configuration file /etc/apache2/httpd.conf: No such file or directory
00:05 < kanzure> Action 'start' failed.
00:06 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i can't restart apache2 on gnusha :(
00:06  * kanzure sleeps
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00:28 < jrayhawk> that error message isn't actually particularly important
00:28 < jrayhawk> but i will go ahead and comment it out anyway
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06:00 < heathjs> if the blue brain project was successful in simulating the neocortical column of a mouse, you would think papers would be published, yeah?
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06:02 < heathjs> this was in 2010.. plenty of time to write something
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06:13 < archels> heathjs: http://jahia-prod.epfl.ch/site/bluebrain/op/edit/page-52755.html
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06:53 < archels> "[...] when compared with in vitro studies (e.g., L2 [8578 lm vs. 4309 lm {Meyer, Wimmer, Hemberger, et al. 2010}], L4py [7492 lm vs. 2813 lm {Staiger et al. 2004}], and L6 neurons [5861 and 5899 lm vs. 3916 and 3868 lm for L6cc and L6ct pyramids, respectively {Kumar and Ohana 2008)})."
06:53 < archels> nice nesting of quotes there, chaps
06:53 < archels> er, parentheses
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09:04 < kanzure> http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/08/11/the-kurzwild-man-in-the-night/
09:04 < kanzure> http://bigthink.com/econ201/the-cult-of-the-singularity
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09:15 < archels> yawn, noise.
09:18 < archels> 1.1 hour left until I reach 1000 iterations on my simulation
09:18 < archels> do I wait, or just abort it, concluding that if it hasn't blown up by iteration #793, it will still not have blown up by #1000?
09:20 < kanzure> waiting is the mindkiller
09:21 < archels> kanzure, can I have the old BlueGene/P that is sitting in your garage?
09:21 < archels> I promise to only run bio-simulations on it.
09:21 < kanzure> sorry it is currently earmarked for evil ai
09:22 < kanzure> have you considered doing this on ec2?
09:26 < archels> No, but that's a very interesting idea.
09:28 < archels> Hmm, does that allow me to do actual parallel processing though? It talks about "setting up an image" and then "launching as many images as needed."
09:32 < Mariu> "I’m glad to hear that, because I think he is a fundamentally a very good and very decent man who shares our core values."
09:32 < Mariu> I like that :p
09:34 < kanzure> archels: what do you mean by parallel? you can choose a virtual machine that has multiple cores, yes. or you can do gpgpu stuff.
09:42 < kanzure> hm, sourceforge was acquired by dice
09:44 < archels> arse, I left my credit card at home.
09:45 < archels> at iteration #864 by now
09:46 < kanzure> amazon offers $15k of ec2 time to academic projects as long as you promise to write a paper about the results mentioning ec2
09:46 < archels> hah, no shit?
09:46 < kanzure> does this make me your best friend?
09:47 < archels> Well, what if we fail to publish? :)
09:48 < kanzure> i never really asked that
09:48 < ParahSail1n> you have to pay first? and then get reimbursed?
09:48 < kanzure> no i don't think so
09:48 < ParahSail1n> im unable to find this
09:49 < kanzure> http://aws.amazon.com/education/
09:49 < kanzure> http://aws.amazon.com/grants/
09:49 < kanzure> "The next deadline for quarterly research grant applications is September 14, 2012" sucks for you!
09:50 < kanzure> "Grant amounts will vary depending on the research proposal and usage requirements documented in the proposal. Grants will be in the form of credits applicable to AWS services. EC2 usage within the grants will be for on-demand instances only."
09:51 < archels> I can probably get my prof to pay, our problem sets aren't *that* massive.
09:51 < kanzure> yeah just remember to spin down the instances when you're not using them, and it will probably be cheap
09:52 < kanzure> you can also do some python/boto stuff if you want more fine-grained control over automatically spinnin down/up the instances
09:52 < archels> right
09:52 < kanzure> *spinning
09:53 < archels> our current cluster is 64-core 1.4GHz AMD Opterons with 192GB RAM
09:53 < archels> wonder how it'll stack up against EC2.
09:53 < kanzure> oh. i thought you were just running it on your laptop.
09:53 < ParahSail1n> archels: who are you with and what do you run on that?
09:53 < kanzure> so linux is managing all 64 cores?
09:57 < archels> kanzure: right now yes, but I need to decide on which cluster to go through the hell of installing all the software again.
09:57 < kanzure> well, with amazon you should be able to just run your regular debian images
09:59 < archels> yes, but will that really squeeze the performance out of it?
09:59 < kanzure> hmm i feel like we're talking past each other.
09:59 < kanzure> how do you currently install things to your cluster's system?
10:00 < archels> I SSH into it. They have a Linux 2.6 kernel, Ubuntu distribution.
10:00 < kanzure> ok cool. so if you install something, do you go write that down anywhere?
10:00 < kanzure> like do you guys maintain an image that you know is working, and just reinstall that when you fuck up?
10:01 < archels> No, but that's what I'm doing locally, on my laptop. Backups and everything for the cluster is managed by the central IT group.
10:02 < kanzure> okay i see.
10:02 < kanzure> well, to use ec2 you use something called an AMI (amazon machine image)
10:03 < kanzure> http://wiki.debian.org/Cloud/CreateEC2Image
10:03 < archels> Right, but I don't even need to make that myself, I can just select a pre-built one from the EC2 control panel.
10:04 < kanzure> see the debootstrap stuff
10:04 < kanzure> yeah you could, sure
10:04 < kanzure> there might even be a neuroscience one that is pre-built
10:04 < kanzure> there's a debian neuroscience team that does packaging of some useful things
10:04 < kanzure> http://neuro.debian.net/
10:04 < archels> Does it make sense to talk about CPU clock frequency and number of cores in EC2-land? Can't find much info on that.
10:05 < kanzure> you can choose which type of instance you want
10:05 < kanzure> http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/
10:05 < kanzure> http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/hpc-applications/
10:06 < archels> One EC2 Compute Unit provides the equivalent CPU capacity of a 1.0-1.2 GHz 2007 Opteron or 2007 Xeon processor. This is also the equivalent to an early-2006 1.7 GHz Xeon processor referenced in our original documentation
10:06 < archels> right
10:06 < kanzure> most of my experience with ec2 has been horizontal scaling (adding more instances) rather than trying to grab the most RAM in a single instance, so i'm not going to be completely helpful to you
10:06 < kanzure> by horizontal i mean things like "break the problem up into subsets and let the instances communicate with each other through some terrible application-level code or hadoop stuff)
10:06 < kanzure> s/stuff)/stuff"
10:07 < archels> yeh, I hope this finite element stuff scales well over multiple cores.
10:07 < archels> It's supposed to, but who knows. :)
10:08 < kanzure> saurik: so what are the chances of an iphone virtual machine?
10:09 < kanzure> saurik: i want to load up apps into RAM and do the decryption or whatever, so i'm interested in figuring out if i can avoid using a physical device
10:09 < kanzure> i think the simulator might be able to handle this?
10:11 < kanzure> saurik: https://github.com/stefanesser/dumpdecrypted
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11:11 < saurik> kanzure: the simulator is a simulator, not an emulator, so no
11:11 < saurik> kanzure: like, if you compile an app for the simulator, you are just compiling the binary for x86
11:11 < saurik> and running it as a native process on your mac
11:12 < saurik> the simulator binaries aren't encrypted, so you don't have the infraustructure there to decrypt them
11:12 < saurik> you can either reverse engineer the ios decryption code to pull the key
11:13 < saurik> (which no one has ever bothered to do before, afaik. the people who mostly care are pirates, and they tend to not be as bright, and if you do it in small scales dumping it from ram with gdb is trivially automatable)
11:14 < saurik> or you can setup an ios device as like a daemon to load binaries and send back decrypted ones (would be fairly simple)
11:14 < saurik> or you can try to help out with iEmu (which is mostly up to being able to run iBoot, but I do not believe is anywhere near booting all the way through to the real kernel)
11:47 < kanzure> yeah, i know the simulator is not an emulator. but why hasn't someone just run the iphone arm software on an arm emulator?
11:47 < kanzure> ah thanks for telling about iEmu, i'll look into that
11:48 < kanzure> saurik: if i choose to use a physical device, do you know an order of magnitude estimate of how long it would take per app?
11:53 < saurik> no. obviously not that long, though, given that the binaries are decrypted on demand
11:53 < saurik> users would get pretty angry if launching an app were super super slow
11:54 < kanzure> blah it took me more than 30 seconds to check for a /Packages file on a cydia repo. i guess it would make sense that it would follow an actual standard.
11:58 < kanzure> i will probably try to pull the decryption key because i have a tendency to chase windmills. then i'll settle on a version that uses gdb or something else to dump memory, and later i will feel bad for not having an emulator and would probably submit patches to iEmu.
12:03 < kanzure> anyway, i will probably
12:03 < kanzure> oops. ignore.
12:16 < jrayhawk> arm doesn't have a platform standard; you can't "just run the iphone arm software an arm emulator"
12:20 < kanzure> oh :\
12:21 < kanzure> jrayhawk: so one of the problems with loading apps onto an ios device for me is that my upload rate is extremely crippling
12:21 < kanzure> can i just stickynote an ipod touch to a server, or is it all colo?
12:22 < jrayhawk> I can leave crap lying around in colo. That'd be fine. Not sure how to handle remote restarts and touchscreen stuff, though.
12:22 < jrayhawk> maybe restarts can be managed over the USB interface?
12:22 < kanzure> afaik jailbroken ipods don't need to be touched as much because it's shell-accessible.
12:23 < jrayhawk> Can you get a shell over USB or ethernet or something on those?
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12:24 < jrayhawk> actually i guess you'd want internet access anyway, so ethernet or wireless would be sorta mandatory, huh
12:25 < kanzure> let's see... http://cydia.saurik.com/openssh.html
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12:27 < kanzure> oh right, cydelete/cydia gives you apt-get and other sane things
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12:58 < saurik> if you really do want to set this stuff up as a server
12:58 < saurik> if you can obtain an apple tv 2 (not 3) that will be better
12:59 < saurik> the apple tv is wall powered (no batteries to worry over) and has an ethernet port
12:59 < kanzure> does it do normal things like wake/boot on lan?
13:00 < saurik> I doubt it does "boot on lan". it might do wake on lan. but I'm not certain it even ever goes to sleep
13:00 < jrayhawk> It probably has a watchdog, so booting is not a big concern.
13:00 < saurik> it is a super small low-power arm device
13:00 < saurik> that pretty much likes to constantly be operating
13:00 < brownies> Apple TV as server? wild.
13:01 < saurik> the concern would be that you'd want one that you can get an untethered jailbreak on, so if it reboots it will come back up. I don't know what the status is of which firmwares have that property for the apple tv mostly as I don't really use the apple tv
13:01 < saurik> and you'd want the apple tv 2 (not 3) as it is succeptable to limera1n
13:02 < jrayhawk> Tethered boot is also an option.
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13:02  * Daeken waves
13:02 < jrayhawk> hello!
13:03 < kanzure> isn't limera1n by that guy who sold out to someone somewhere. can't recall.
13:03 < brownies> why no apple tv 3? it isn't jailbroken yet?
13:04 < saurik> kanzure: define "sold out". he was sued by sony, and then went to work for facebook after he was forced to settle that case out of court
13:04 < kanzure> oh sorry, i thought he went to work for apple.
13:04 < kanzure> wrong person then
13:04 < saurik> you might be thinking of comex
13:05 < saurik> brownies: correct
13:05 < Daeken> haha, it was funny... i was at blackhat one night drinking, and my girlfriend recognized someone she knew, who happened to be with someone else.  so when she's catching up with him, i introduce myself to the other guy... and it's geohot.
13:05 < saurik> kanzure: what generally, are you trying to accomplish, btw?
13:06 < kanzure> saurik: i am downloading all ads from apps and then tracking the shit out of campaigns
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13:06 < kanzure> android has been going very well. i'd like to expand to ios soon.
13:07 < saurik> interesting. and what you are pulling is like their advertising key or whatever it is called with whatever services these are?
13:07 < kanzure> yes.
13:07 < saurik> fair enough
13:07 < kanzure> it's fairly obvious yeah
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13:33 < kanzure> nmz787: any thoughts on an uber cheap refractometer?
13:33 < nmz787> for what?
13:34 < kanzure> urinalysis
13:34 < kanzure> i think.
13:34 < kanzure> possibly blood things
13:36 < nmz787> isn't it just a microscale ruler with the signal coming in at an angle to a piece of glass or lense?
13:40 < nmz787> looks cheap https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Measuring_Principle_v2.png
13:41 < nmz787> i see a webcam, prism, a lens a filter and an LED
13:41 < nmz787> 'Schematic setup of an automatic refractometer: An LED light source is imaged under a wide range of angles onto a prism surface which is in contact with a sample. Depending on the difference in the refractive index between prism material and sample the light is partly transmitted or totally reflected. The critical angle of total reflection is determined by measuring the reflected light intensity as a function of the incide
13:43 < nmz787> you could make a nice spectrometer if you replaced the webcam with a higher end backthinned camera (i.e. HTC evo 4G phone and iPhone type cameras, maybe there are cheap webcam/consumer cameras with this) and the last lens with a concave grating
13:43 < nmz787> you would get spectral data at the same time as refraction data
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14:17 < nmz787> where is the nicking enzyme image?
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15:22 < kanzure> nmz787: well there's this one http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/nucleic/enzymeSynthesisCycle_new.png
15:23 < kanzure> and this one http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/DNA/nicking-library-method.jpg
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15:24 < jrayhawk> Pow! Biff! Ligase!
15:25 < kanzure> perhaps we can get mike to do ##hplusroadmap science animations
15:26 < kanzure> biology is a million times cooler than http://www.mikerayhawk.com/images/lu/lu_nexus_force.jpg
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16:27 < nmz787> wait is this another rayhawk brother?
16:27 < nmz787> the weird 'normal' one?
16:27 < nmz787> that joe never talks about
16:27 < nmz787> ...
16:28 < nmz787> so kanzure I heard orcad can do autorouting with curves and length matching
16:28 < nmz787> kanzure: anything equivalent that you'd recommend instead?
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16:45 < kanzure> nmz787: there's like ten of them
16:45 < kanzure> rayhawks i mean. not orcads.
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17:03 < kanzure> http://lesswrong.com/lw/ecp/dragon_balls_hyperbolic_time_chamber/
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17:12 < jrayhawk> funnily enough, rayhawks are the reason orcad exists
17:13 < kanzure> elaborate?
17:13 < kanzure> oh hell.
17:13 < kanzure> "Lead developer for OrCAD Release IV, including the graphics editors DRAFT and LIBEDIT as well as task-switching support of the ESP Framework."
17:14 < kanzure> this profile shows someone who seems to be employed at places
17:14 < kanzure> http://www.linkedin.com/in/joerayhawk
17:14 < kanzure> but i'm pretty sure this can't be you, because you would hate employment
17:14 < kanzure> oh also it says "highly productive" so that can't be right
17:15 < jrayhawk> it's true!
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19:21 < kanzure> ughh http://transhumanity.net/articles/entry/were-offering-certificate-programs-in-transhumanism
19:21 < kanzure> awful
19:22 < kanzure> "The certificate candidate needs to create either a 2-3 minute video on a transhumanist topic, or 10 jpeg “memes.”"
19:22 < kanzure> "Technical instruction will be provided."
19:22 < yashgaroth> no, right? I mean...no
19:24 < yashgaroth> "perks": 750 word file of information that contains advice on how to increase longevity and mental capacity
19:24 < kanzure> i'm surprised these people don't suffocate from their own stupidity
19:26 < kanzure> what's even worse is the comments. i met morris and i can't believe he fell for this shit.
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19:27 < yashgaroth> oh so it looks like I'm meeting up with jojack on sunday
19:27 < ThomasEgi> http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/11/09/1209714109
19:27 < ThomasEgi> for all those of you interested in living a tad longer
19:27 < yashgaroth> yes foxo is a proliferation factor
19:28 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: i liked foxo before it was cool
19:28 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/Association%20of%20FOXO3A%20variation%20with%20human%20longevity%20confirmed%20in%20German%20centenarians.pdf
19:28 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/Decisions%20on%20life%20and%20death-%20FOXO%20Forkhead%20transcription%20factors%20are%20in%20command%20when%20PKB-%20Akt%20is%20off%20duty.pdf
19:28 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/FOXO3A%20genotype%20is%20strongly%20associated%20with%20human%20longevity.pdf
19:28 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/FOXO%20transcription%20factor%20activation%20by%20oxidative%20stress%20mediated%20by%20the%20small%20GTPase%20Ral%20and%20JNK.pdf
19:28 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/FOXO%20transcription%20factors-%20key%20regulators%20of%20cell%20fate.pdf
19:29 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/FoxO%20transcription%20factors%20in%20the%20maintenance%20of%20cellular%20homeostasis%20during%20aging.pdf
19:29 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/OutFOXOing%20disease%20and%20disability--%20the%20therapeutic%20potential%20of%20targeting%20FoxO%20proteins.pdf
19:29 < kanzure> read or die
19:30 < ThomasEgi> i prefer to die one day
19:30 < ThomasEgi> i don't feel like enduring mankinds stupidity forever
19:30 < ThomasEgi> one lifetime, is more than enough of that
19:31 < kanzure> nobody said anything about forever. what's wrong with you.
19:33 < ThomasEgi> you.. don't really want to know that. for now. i'll go to bed caus i am lacking sleep. a lot of sleep
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21:25 < kanzure> http://www.iheartubuntu.com/2012/11/netflix-on-ubuntu-is-here.html
21:25 < kanzure> hmm.
21:26 < kanzure> bleh it's just wine
21:28 < sylph_mako> 99% is not enough?
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21:59 < nmz787> so who is the orcad rayhawk jrayhawk?
21:59 < nmz787> jrayhawk: do you know how to use orcad?
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23:04 < yashgaroth> oh hey kanzure I just realized I met jcline last saturday
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--- Log closed Fri Nov 16 00:00:15 2012