--- Log opened Sun Nov 18 00:00:18 2012 00:31 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:38 < drethelin1> guys is there a biohack to make my fresh tattoo not itch 01:11 -!- user123abc [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11 -!- user123abc [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:24 < foucist> drethelin1: run hot water over it for 5 minutes 01:24 < foucist> er, actually 1 minute is fine 01:24 < foucist> 60 seconds 01:24 < foucist> hot as you can stand 02:58 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:13 -!- Mokstar [~Nate@c-76-115-140-241.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:27 -!- Mokstar [~Nate@c-76-115-140-241.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:32 -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:06 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@103-9-42-1.flip.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:53 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@static-50-43-43-17.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:58 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:13 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:14 -!- tomegathe [~irchon@75.105.12.23] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:18 -!- EnLilaSko- [~Nattzor@m176-68-178-83.cust.tele2.se] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:19 -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:20 -!- tomegathe [~irchon@75.105.12.23] has quit [Quit: tomegathe] 06:45 -!- yolo [~doomboxsa@75.105.12.23] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:46 -!- yolo [~doomboxsa@75.105.12.23] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:46 -!- user123abc [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:50 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-250-168.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:55 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-250-168.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Client Quit] 07:33 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@p5B13ADF2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:33 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@p5B13ADF2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host] 07:33 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:39 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:47 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@adsl-69-151-150-200.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:47 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@adsl-69-151-150-200.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Changing host] 07:47 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:55 -!- yolo is now known as dr_illuminati 07:56 -!- Thorbinator [~Thorbinat@76-14-130-152.rk.wavecable.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:17 -!- Thorbinator [~Thorbinat@76-14-130-152.rk.wavecable.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:19 -!- rainfrog [~swamp@p5B16EC63.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:20 -!- EnLilaSko- [~Nattzor@m176-68-178-83.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:21 -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:03 -!- NCC-A1 is now known as Mariu 09:17 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:24 -!- EnLilaSko- [~Nattzor@m176-68-160-7.cust.tele2.se] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:24 -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:26 -!- BioGuy [~BioGuy@184-76-124-69.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:28 -!- maccam912 [~maccam912@c-75-72-178-211.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: maccam912] 09:30 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@95.5.72.31] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:30 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@95.5.72.31] has quit [Changing host] 09:30 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:35 -!- user123abc [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:52 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:05 < kanzure> wtf https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=kitty.spongebob.smurfs.disney.mickey.toy.princess.naruto 10:05 < kanzure> quite an app name 10:11 < drethelin1> foucist that seems like a dangerous idea 10:22 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:41 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:42 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:46 < kanzure> yashgaroth: yo 10:46 < yashgaroth> sup 10:47 < kanzure> something about antifreeze proteins again 10:47 < yashgaroth> oh no not cryonics 11:01 -!- drazak_ [~ahdfadkfa@199.188.72.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:29 -!- user123abc [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:30 -!- drazak_ [~ahdfadkfa@199.188.72.84] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:03 -!- TimOsman [~doomboxsa@75.105.12.23] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:08 < kanzure> http://randomshopper.tumblr.com/post/35454415921/randomized-consumerism 12:08 < kanzure> "Well, I thought: what if I just wrote a program to buy stuff for me? The first iteration of this was going to be a program that bought me stuff that I probably would like." 12:08 < kanzure> "But then I decided that was too boring. How about I build something that buys me things completely at random? Something that just… fills my life with crap?" 12:08 < kanzure> perhaps this guy has too much money 12:11 -!- user123abc [~sally@CMU-799241.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:12 -!- TimOsman [~doomboxsa@75-105-12-23.cust.wildblue.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:16 < kanzure> 12:15 < docl> foucist: based on my wikipedia trawlings, adenovirus is bad because it provokes immune response. however adeno-associated virus (AAV) is benign and doesn't provoke as much immune response. 12:24 < yashgaroth> "as much" 12:25 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@103-9-42-1.flip.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:25 < kanzure> why are we splitting discussions into a second channel 12:34 < docl> because the other channel has a cooler name :P 12:34 < docl> and #lesswrong is off on a d&d tangent 12:35 < docl> hopefully they will pull a decent rationality lesson out of it. 12:36 < kanzure> yashgaroth: so how is jcline doing? i haven't seen him since 2009 12:36 < yashgaroth> he's got his own openpcr project going, no comment there 12:37 < yashgaroth> he brought up your dna synth project and I was all 'yes I'm familiar with it' 12:37 < yashgaroth> seems to be in an RNAi phase but I'm sure it'll pass 12:37 < kanzure> he had a microfluidics project a few years back 12:38 < kanzure> he was doing electrowetting on dielectrics to move droplets around in open atmosphere 12:38 < yashgaroth> seemed interested in helping with the open spec project too 12:40 < kanzure> last i heard he was working for some lab automation startup in san diego? 12:42 < yashgaroth> probably, I'd no idea who he was at the time so it was just general bullshitting...but yes I think he mentioned something about robits 12:42 < kanzure> yeah sorry about forgetting to introduce you to him 12:44 < yashgaroth> quite alright; I don't think he'll be at the thing today, but I'm sure we'll encounter each other at the space 12:44 < kanzure> he used to hang out in here 12:45 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@103-9-42-1.flip.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:47 < kanzure> docl: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/gene-therapy/ 12:48 < docl> thanks 12:48 < kanzure> if you find something worth adding to that folder please let me know 12:49 < docl> will do. 12:55 -!- armitage81 [~armitage@nemo.centos6server.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:02 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@103-9-42-1.flip.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:02 -!- armitage81 [~armitage@nemo.centos6server.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:10 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@103-9-42-1.flip.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:10 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@103-9-42-1.flip.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:15 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@node-17-39.flex.volo.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:20 -!- EnLilaSko- [~Nattzor@m176-68-160-7.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.39 - www.nbs-irc.net -] 13:36 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@103-9-42-1.flip.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:48 -!- Simurg [~Shehrazad@95.5.124.106] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:48 -!- Simurg [~Shehrazad@95.5.124.106] has quit [Changing host] 13:48 -!- Simurg [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:48 -!- Simurg [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Client Quit] 13:48 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:53 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@103-9-42-1.flip.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:54 -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-81-14-211.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:00 -!- user123abc [~sally@CMU-799241.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:08 -!- user123abc [~sally@CMU-799241.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:18 < fenn> kinda wish he had implemented the recommendation engine. "buy me random crap" isn't even art, just .. defeatist. 14:18 < fenn> maybe amazon will implement it for all the lonely millionaires out there 14:19 < kanzure> fenn: http://directededge.com/ how about scott's stuff 14:20 < kanzure> amazon's recommendation engine is surprisingly bad 14:25 < fenn> woah cool movie my friend made of rotating bacterial cells http://garnerlab.fas.harvard.edu/index.html#&panel1-1 (is it sub-diffraction?) 14:37 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:40 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:41 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43 < ThomasEgi> fenn, and that bacteria goes like "don't flip me bro" 14:44 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:49 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:53 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:55 -!- user123abc [~sally@CMU-799241.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:04 < docl> http://www.scribd.com/doc/79736162/Cell-and-Organ-Printing 15:08 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08 < fenn> huh i wonder if you can buy your own debt http://rollingjubilee.org/#faq 15:10 < drethelin1> I think viewing education as a basic neccesity is one of the worst failings in america 15:11 < drethelin1> also it looks like you can't buy any specific person's debt 15:12 < fenn> yeah nobody is "forced into" college 15:12 < fenn> but still, lots of young people are pressured into it, not knowing what they're getting into, essentially being lied to by institutions they're expected to trust 15:12 < drethelin1> they're not exactly lies 15:13 < drethelin1> because the institutions are also fooled 15:13 < fenn> the banks know exactly what they're doing 15:13 < docl> you sure the pressure to get people educated is a bug not a feature? 15:13 < drethelin1> the very idea that spending tens of thousands of dollars to get a english degree is useful is getting both sides 15:13 < drethelin1> the issue isn't "education" in general 15:13 < fenn> when they tell you to get a private loan instead of a federal loan, that's in the banks best interest but fucks you over 15:13 < drethelin1> education is the applause light version of what's actually happening 15:13 < drethelin1> you can't argue against "education" just like it's hard to argue against "freedom" 15:14 < drethelin1> but the 4 year college system in the USA is a parody of learning 15:14 < docl> you're saying that useful education and useless education are being conflated? 15:14 < docl> e.g. STEM vs lit 15:14 < fenn> i agree, but additionally there are predatory financial practices surrounding the educational system 15:14 < drethelin1> docl, yes 15:15 < drethelin1> also: education is being treated as something with intrinsic value 15:15 < docl> isn't it? 15:15 < drethelin1> it's value is a function of the person and the other choices they make 15:15 < fenn> "intrinsic value" is shaky philosophy 15:15 < fenn> how much is gold worth 15:15 < drethelin1> many (possibly most) people don't need a college degree to live a happy life doing what they want 15:16 < docl> the point of education is not so much the betterment of the individual (imho) but the spillover benefits for society. 15:16 < drethelin1> docl, that's a reasonable argument for public education in general but not for education as she is played 15:18 < drethelin1> eg there's no good evidence that society is made better off by a bunch of people spending 4 years getting drunk and getting a useless degree 15:18 < drethelin1> or even by learning most of the stuff that is taught in high school 15:18 < docl> depends how they would have spent the 4 years otherwise 15:18 < drethelin1> current curriculums are far more an artifact of what the past thought was high status than what you would create in a vacuum to generate good citizens 15:18 < drethelin1> consider all the mandatory classes you have to take in college to become a "well rounded individual' 15:19 * fenn grumbles something about montessori education 15:21 < docl> so, bloatware essentially 15:21 < drethelin1> yeah I guess 15:23 < docl> stuff that gets added, has to be kept for backwards compatibility and so forth, but you would never dream of adding it to a new system if you knew what you were doing. 15:24 < drethelin1> it's worse than that because stuff that got added 100 years ago eventually comes to be valued as a tradition etc. 15:24 < drethelin1> ie, people don't even admit that it's bad 15:24 < docl> like football? 15:24 < drethelin1> football is a good example 15:24 < fenn> marching band 15:24 < drethelin1> Marching band is at least not actively terrible 15:24 < kanzure> i am confused, what are you arguing about 15:25 < drethelin1> we're not 15:25 < drethelin1> we're agreeing 15:25 < drethelin1> which is a bad sign 15:25 < fenn> abstinence class? what's actively terrible? 15:25 < drethelin1> there's costs and there's opportunity costs 15:25 < drethelin1> football causes brain injuries etc. as costs 15:25 < drethelin1> marching band doesn't seem to impose costs like that on participants 15:26 < fenn> well, it's one of the more pointless things i've ever done 15:26 < docl> perhaps these things are natural tradeoffs for institutionality, which is in turn beneficial by resolving group coordination problems. 15:27 < docl> can't just think one dimension on this stuff. 15:27 < fenn> i'm interested in your ideas on what "should" be included in an educational curriculum 15:27 < drethelin1> I agree that institutions are valuable for that sort of effect but the problem comes when they calcify out of date values 15:27 < kanzure> is there any actual useful post-grad level courses on opencourseware yet? 15:28 < fenn> the electronics class looked okay 15:28 < fenn> i decided the format wasn't for me 15:28 -!- rainfrog [~swamp@p5B16EC63.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: interacting processing] 15:28 < kanzure> i am just tired of all the intro classes 15:28 < drethelin1> Fenn, depends on if we're talking the equivalent of high school/elementary or if we're talking about college stuff 15:28 < kanzure> you really only need one "intro to philosoethics" class really 15:28 < fenn> intro is a good start 15:29 < drethelin1> I think college stuff is a lot closer to good and would be fine if it wasn't functionally mandatory 15:29 < kanzure> but why isn't there 900 level optics class on the list 15:29 < kanzure> or, you know, the useful things 15:29 < drethelin1> kanzure, there are a lot more amateurs than knowledgeable people 15:29 < fenn> well, the intro electronics class was actually quite advanced 15:29 < drethelin1> and they need ad revenue 15:29 < drethelin1> or whatever 15:29 < kanzure> drethelin1: just because i am amateur doesn't mean i don't want all of the classes. fuck off. 15:30 < fenn> http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-002-circuits-and-electronics-spring-2007/ 15:30 < kanzure> yeah i know about 6.002 15:30 < drethelin1> presumably the worth of uploading any given class is a function of how much effort it takes versus how many people will then use it 15:30 < drethelin1> so if the effort is the same for all kinds of classes the ones with fewer targets will be less uploaded 15:30 < kanzure> drethelin1: it is practically no effort for me to type transcripts, but for some reason i seem to be the only one that does it 15:30 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/ 15:30 < kanzure> i think everyone else is just an asshole or something 15:31 < fenn> also there are 900 level optics classes http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-977-ultrafast-optics-spring-2005/ 15:31 < kanzure> fenn: most of the content is just psets which is basically useless 15:31 < kanzure> oh i see, lecture notes 15:31 < fenn> it's not video lectures? 15:31 < drethelin1> clearly you should go ghost classes 15:31 < drethelin1> and upload transcripts 15:31 < fenn> you have to sign up to take the class to see the content 15:31 < kanzure> btw optics was just a random example i picked, but it looks like the content is thorough http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-977-ultrafast-optics-spring-2005/lecture-notes/chapter1.pdf 15:32 < kanzure> you mean there's videos for this one? i only see lecture noets 15:32 < kanzure> notes 15:32 < fenn> i dont know 15:32 < fenn> just notes would be confusing without context 15:32 < kanzure> well, notes seem to be more common than videos on ocw 15:32 < fenn> the linked notes looks pretty standalone complete though, practically a textbook 15:35 < fenn> also OCW doesnt need ad revenue 15:35 < fenn> it's barely any cost at all to put the course notes up online 15:36 < fenn> since the class is being taught anyway 15:36 < drethelin1> Sure but that's been true for years 15:36 < drethelin1> and it hasn't been happening 15:36 < fenn> all OCW does is present a whole curriculum in a standardized format 15:36 < drethelin1> so there must be something that prevents people from doing it 15:36 < fenn> it's just a coordination problem 15:36 < docl> lots of professors put their notes and lectures online. 15:36 < fenn> professors have been uploading course notes since the bbs days 15:37 < fenn> and copyfight prevents people from aggregating them 15:38 < docl> and darknet doesn't care enough? 15:38 < kanzure> we are the darknet 15:39 < docl> oh yeah 15:39 < fenn> no, nobody gets "mad propz" for uploading publically available educational content 15:39 < fenn> or whatever the motivation of warez groups is 15:41 < docl> btw found a nice free calculus text: http://www.math.wisc.edu/~keisler/calc.html 15:41 < fenn> bleh. how about "how to use mathematica" 101 15:42 < docl> see the reaction I get? :P 15:42 < fenn> calculus has a reputation that goes far beyond its usefulness 15:43 < docl> http://www.indiana.edu/~statmath/math/mma/gettingstarted/printable.pdf maybe 15:43 < fenn> why are you linking to random math textbooks now? 15:44 < fenn> oh i guess i should read the title :P 15:45 < fenn> sigh.. /me adds "learn mathematica" to the todo list, right under "learn emacs again" 15:45 < docl> the calc book starts with the concept of infinitesimals rather than limits. apparently calculus books have been doing it in the wrong order for hundreds of years. 15:46 < fenn> alex graveley was trying to come up with a dependency tree for educational content 15:47 < fenn> he basically took the lazy way out and just scraped wikipedia categories 15:47 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:47 -!- foucist [~foucist@ps14150.dreamhost.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47 < drethelin1> heh 15:47 < fenn> i'd like to see a fully fleshed out tree of math and science topics though, that would be something 15:48 < fenn> i guess that's what "principia mathematica" was about 15:49 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@adsl-69-151-150-200.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:49 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@adsl-69-151-150-200.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:49 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:49 < kanzure> fenn: obviously we need a math/learning warez community 15:50 < kanzure> actually, why the fuck isn't there a journal warez community 15:50 < fenn> dunno, where do warez communities come from? 15:50 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-174-62-225-176.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:50 < kanzure> usenet? 15:51 < fenn> there are lots of chinese students who trade papers textbooks and engineering programs 15:51 < fenn> but i dont read chinese 15:52 -!- user123abc [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:52 < fenn> or math hieroglyphics it seems 15:52 < chris_99> i wonder, with mendeley.com you can see papers people have shared i think, so you could potentially nab a lot of papers from there 15:52 < fenn> why can't they just use ascii characters 15:52 < fenn> 127 letters ought to be enough for anybody! 15:53 < chris_99> haha 15:53 < kanzure> endeley doesn't show the actual pdf 15:53 < chris_99> ah 15:54 < kanzure> On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 4:04 AM, Nathan McCorkle wrote: 15:54 < kanzure> > Looking at the soft lithography for microfluidics literature, they mention 15:54 < kanzure> > silanizing the silicon or SU-8 master with some long-name gas. Is there a 15:54 < kanzure> > chemical hood method, as the plasma chamber I have access to is for air or 15:54 < kanzure> > oxygen only. 15:54 < kanzure> > I'm guessing this silanization layer bonds to the master less than PDMS 15:54 < kanzure> > curing against the master would? 15:55 < fenn> they're both silane 15:55 < fenn> well, siloxane, anyway 15:56 < fenn> CVD is probably less porous than bulk chemical synthesis 15:57 < fenn> any opinions on org mode vs other todo list systems? 15:58 < kanzure> what is this http://aaaaarg.org/login 15:59 < drethelin1> register and find pout 15:59 < fenn> american association for the advancement of age-related antipathy and related gerontology 16:00 < kanzure> fenn is your brain ok 16:00 < fenn> chocolate isn't really a substitute for piracetam, is it 16:01 < fenn> i do need a good todo list solution though, preferably something ncurses based that is also a calendar and saves in a text based format 16:02 < fenn> i've been using calcurse but it has some dumb design decisions. perhaps i could fix it; it is just python after all 16:02 < kanzure> org-mode, yadda yadda 16:02 < kanzure> hnb used to be nice until it wasn't 16:02 < fenn> but org mode isnt a calendar? 16:02 < fenn> tbh i havent read a lot about it 16:03 < fenn> there are a lot of asterisks 16:03 < fenn> oh there is a calendar view mode 16:04 < kanzure> i'm pretty sure it's just a cleverly disguised "everything and the kitchen sink" thing 16:04 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-140-133-153.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:04 < fenn> well, whatever, as long as it has the requied features 16:05 < fenn> i'm just dreading learning emacs again 16:05 < fenn> last time i was fighting with lisp at the same time, perhaps just emacs on its own won't be so bad 16:06 < kanzure> https://github.com/jceb/vim-orgmode 16:06 < kanzure> and it's in python, so there's that 16:06 < kanzure> https://github.com/jceb/vim-orgmode/blob/master/examples/plugins/PluginExample.py 16:07 < fenn> of course this would exist 16:07 < kanzure> "# vim: set noexpandtab:" oops well it turns out he's evil 16:07 < fenn> by the "vim does that too" corollary 16:07 < fenn> why should it care about tabs? 16:08 < kanzure> it just means that he writes with tabs (and it's hard to tell on github's html display that they are tabs and not whitespace) 16:08 < fenn> meh 16:08 < fenn> as long as i dont have to use tabs i don't care 16:09 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:11 < upgrayeddd> hey, does anyone mind fetching me this paper from ACM as paperbot is down? http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2384723&dl=ACM&coll=DL 16:14 < fenn> upgrayeddd: http://fennetic.net/irc/p13-wimmer.pdf 16:15 < fenn> not very much content in that paper 16:15 < upgrayeddd> fenn: much obliged 16:15 < upgrayeddd> yes it appears so 16:15 < delinquentme> kanzure, thoughts on instantiating an R script from within ruby vrs js? 16:15 < delinquentme> or fenn 16:17 < fenn> eh? it's just a system call, either way 16:17 < fenn> whichever is most convenient 16:21 < upgrayeddd> there might already be a library out there that makes it easy, like pgfSweave for R scripts in LaTeX 16:36 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-140-133-153.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07 -!- dedis34 [~dedis34@akw403.cs.yale.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:08 -!- wtf [~doomboxsa@75.105.12.23] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:09 -!- TimOsman [~doomboxsa@75-105-12-23.cust.wildblue.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:10 < kanzure> fenn: wrong.. system calls are generally a bad idea if you're doing web applications like delinquentme is ostensibly working on 17:10 < kanzure> fenn: what he should really do is make a task queue and then build a worker that consumes from the queue in whatever language 17:10 < kanzure> however, calling r from latex sounds hilarious 17:11 < delinquentme> except the front end application is instantly using feedback from the R script 17:11 < delinquentme> academia likes to look at everything on a computer as homogenous :D 17:12 < kanzure> i would still highly recommend a queue and workers even if the results are streamed in through websockets to the page 17:12 < kanzure> you would just make these particular tasks very high priority 17:12 < kanzure> the important thing is to decouple them from page rendering or responding to other http things 17:13 < delinquentme> so the process is like this: click on google map, draw square via google map api, return lat + longitudes ... send lat + lng to R script to plow through 1 gig of data ... return array of biomes 17:14 < kanzure> yeah that should be completely decoupled from an http request 17:14 < kanzure> your js should poll an endpoint to ask if it's ready yet 17:14 < kanzure> and that endpoint will wait for the task to finish 17:14 < kanzure> when the task is done it should update the db and tell itself where the results are stored 17:14 < kanzure> if the plowing takes a really really long time, then you might also consider sending an email reminder when it's ready 17:15 < delinquentme> =p 17:15 < delinquentme> were hoping it takes less than 1 second 17:15 < delinquentme> awesome right? 17:15 -!- dedis34 [~dedis34@akw403.cs.yale.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:16 < kanzure> we have a cs.yale.edu person in here? huh 17:18 < fenn> oh just make a task queue and build a worker.. right.. 17:19 < kanzure> sarcasm? 17:19 < fenn> to call a script? i must be missing some context i guess 17:19 < kanzure> well let's say that his service is using a single http server 17:19 < kanzure> and there's two users 17:19 < kanzure> suddenly this doubles the memory the http server is using for this mapping operation 17:19 < kanzure> and the server is for http stuff, not number crunching 17:20 < kanzure> so already things sound a bit weird, right? 17:21 < fenn> he should have mentioned the "plow through 1 gig of data" part in the initial question 17:21 < delinquentme> yeah theres a bit of data 17:21 < delinquentme> and kanz is right thats a shit load of weight on a server ... especially once we're talking a number of users 17:21 < kanzure> well, you missed the context a few months ago when he took on an awful rails job 17:22 < fenn> sounds like a good educational experience 17:22 < kanzure> so i sorta assumed it was some web application doing things it shouldn't 17:22 < delinquentme> haha 17:22 < delinquentme> yeah 17:22 < delinquentme> @ fenn 17:22 < delinquentme> not you kan! 17:22 < kanzure> it's okay i know you hate me / don't listen to me 17:23 < delinquentme> i mean applications are supposed to do what we want :D 17:23 < fenn> anyway i think kanzure's advice makes sense 17:23 < delinquentme> so maybe an API call to a dedicated crunchy server 17:23 < kanzure> delinquentme: no 17:23 < kanzure> i mean, that's better than your first solution 17:23 < kanzure> but let's say you want to use more than one cruncy server 17:23 < kanzure> *crunchy 17:23 < kanzure> and what if you have more than one type of crunching in the future? 17:24 < fenn> is delinquentme using heroku? i'm not really versed in how task queues work in general 17:24 < delinquentme> fenn, nah its gonna be EC2 17:24 < kanzure> fenn: task queues are very easy to setup 17:24 < delinquentme> we run crazy shit so ... yeah 17:24 < delinquentme> heroku wont like us 17:24 < delinquentme> kanzure, tutorial? 17:24 < kanzure> since fenn likes python i would tell him to install celery and rabbitmq-server 17:25 < kanzure> sudo apt-get install python-celery rabbitmq-server 17:25 < kanzure> in rails-land it's a little less complicated because the queue and the messenger tend to be the same (redis/resque) 17:26 < kanzure> heroku definitely supports both resque and celery 17:27 < kanzure> fenn: http://docs.celeryproject.org/en/latest/userguide/workers.html 17:27 < fenn> wow broken phones are cheap cheap 17:27 < fenn> a heretofore untapped resource 17:28 < kanzure> think of all that.. erm. computing power. 17:29 < fenn> well for $20 buy it now/shipped i'm sure i can come up with something to do with it 17:30 < fenn> some of these are $10 but they dont say what's wrong with them 17:30 < fenn> apparently the $20 works but needs a battery (another $5) 17:31 < kanzure> delinquentme: other thing to consider is if crunchy server breaks down or stops performing well. ideally your queue system will account for this and kick workers in the ass. 17:55 -!- user123abc [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:59 -!- wtf is now known as TimOsman 18:00 < kanzure> 17:59 < poincare101> The reason I'm asking is I need some kind of idea for research, and, my idea is basically caching on distributed file systems by predicting open()s based on previous actions 18:05 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@node-17-39.flex.volo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:09 -!- remote [~self@unaffiliated/remote] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:09 -!- remote [~self@unaffiliated/remote] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 18:23 < fenn> ugh finally. the paypal "confirm address by mail" page: https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_account-aac 18:44 -!- SDr [~SDr@unaffiliated/sdr] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 19:08 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:18 -!- user123abc [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:25 -!- Adifex [~Adifex@65-128-22-247.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:38 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-140-133-153.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:58 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@static-50-43-43-17.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:10 < fenn> the first cat to become an executive of a railroad corporation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tama_%28cat%29 21:11 < kanzure> fenn are you making career plans 21:11 < fenn> the station roof looks suspiciously cat-like 21:12 < fenn> i'm not sure i could live up to the responsibilities of a Super Station Master 21:14 -!- augur_ [~augur@c-69-140-133-153.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:14 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-140-133-153.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:58 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-174-62-225-176.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:20 -!- Adifex [~Adifex@65-128-22-247.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Adifex] 22:32 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:32 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@adsl-69-151-150-200.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:32 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@adsl-69-151-150-200.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:32 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:46 -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@static-50-43-43-17.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:50 -!- augur_ [~augur@c-69-140-133-153.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01 -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:12 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [] 23:20 -!- Juul [~Juul@208.87.217.74] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:53 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Mon Nov 19 00:00:20 2012