--- Log opened Tue Dec 18 00:00:01 2012
00:15 <@kanzure> wtf why would stackexchange bother to compare itself to digg http://askubuntu.com/about
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00:38 <@kanzure> does anyone have a pdb2stl script?
00:39 <@kanzure> i think vmd had an stl mode
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00:59 <@kanzure> seinfeld's show sure is different these days http://comediansincarsgettingcoffee.com/
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03:47 < archels> oh man, 30 slides for a 45 minute presentation. This isn't going to work, is it?
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03:57 < juri_> kanzure: i'm actually doin some minor work on android-SDK for debian now.
04:00 < juri_> currently taking the last qemu + goldfish patches, and forcing them to compile.
04:01 < juri_> also playing with the official SDK, trying to get it running on a non-sun java.
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04:08 < juri_> I've been looking at android-x86 as a possible next-target, but i've heard of problems with networking, and really want to run the android browser, so i can test websites with it.
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05:47 < curtiss> mornin
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06:06 <@kanzure> juri_: you will have to patch android-x86 to get eth0
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06:08 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/android/android-x86-4.0-eth0-generic_x86-20120516.iso
06:08 <@kanzure> archels: 15min q/a problem solved, you can thank me later
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06:17 < juri_> i'll thank you now, if that image works. ;D
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07:03 <@kanzure> juri_: i run that on qemu-system-x8
07:04 <@kanzure> erm.. qemu-system-x86
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07:37 <@kanzure> perl versions 1 through 4: http://www.etla.org/retroperl/
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09:05 < archels> kanzure: made it :D
09:11 <@kanzure> you made slides? okay..
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09:27 < archels> within the allotted timeframe
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10:28 <@kanzure> oh right.. the kernel for the default android emulator image, naturally, doesn't have the netfilter module
10:30 < chris_99> does android use a vanilla kernel?
10:30 < jrayhawk> No.
10:31 <@kanzure> it uses a kernel compiled out of pure evil
10:32 < jrayhawk> https://lwn.net/Articles/514901/
10:33 < chris_99> interesting ta
10:33 <@kanzure> "With the Linux 3.3 release, it became possible to boot Android on a vanilla kernel"
10:33 <@kanzure> oh reallly
10:34 < jrayhawk> "boot" doesn't necessarily mean "run useful applications on"
10:35 <@kanzure> "You can actually (almost) run native Android apps on glibc using hybris"
10:35 <@kanzure> http://github.com/stskeeps/libhybris
10:35 < jrayhawk> once again the maemo community kicks everyone else's asses
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12:17 <@kanzure> wtf? cyanogenmod also doesn't have iptable support.
12:17 <@kanzure> *iptables
12:23 <@kanzure> nmz787: yo can you check if your copy of cm has netfilter compiled into it? i'd like to hear if this is just an emulator build issue or if the cyanogenmod guys just hate iptables.
12:26 < jrayhawk> Does Android compile everything in, or use modules?
12:27 <@kanzure> not sure
12:27 < jrayhawk> lsmod should say
12:27 <@kanzure> modprobe reports that /system/lib/modules doesn't exist and lsmod says /proc/modules doesn't exist
12:28 < jrayhawk> okay, that answers that
12:28 <@kanzure> because fuck modules, right?
12:28 < jrayhawk> for embedded systems you know exactly what hardware to target, but I assume cyanogen doesn't, really.
12:29 <@kanzure> cyanogen has custom builds for each target phone -_-
12:29 <@kanzure> it's actually a little disgusting
12:29 <@kanzure> http://www.cyanogenmod.org/devices
12:29 < jrayhawk> eh, some hardware is pretty restricted, and if you have to maintain a multibuild system anyway, doesn't hurt to optimize for every phone.
12:29 <@kanzure> but at least they host these:
12:29 <@kanzure> wiki.cyanogenmod.com/wiki/Latest_Version/Google_Apps
12:30 <@kanzure> yes except they don't have a generic
12:30 <@kanzure> or an emulator-specific build.
12:30 <@kanzure> gah i meant http://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/wiki/Latest_Version/Google_Apps
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16:17 < nmz787> kanzure: i actually hosed cyanogenmod for some other ROM that was based on the sprint/HTC builds
16:17 <@kanzure> okay
16:18 < nmz787> just a few days ago actually
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16:18 < nmz787> i have another phone with cm7 on it i think
16:18 < nmz787> how would i check?
16:18 <@kanzure> lsmod | grep net
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17:08 < abetusk> evening
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18:45 <@kanzure> "The retired general described an experiment in which a mouse ran a maze with a computer chip wired into its brain. After the researchers transferred that chip to another mouse that had never seen the course, the second mouse could run the maze."
18:45 <@kanzure> eh? was this just motor control?
18:56 < superkuh> I get the feeling that the General might not have understood what he was being shown. What is that quote from?
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19:18 <@kanzure> superkuh: a random, terrible news article.
19:19 <@kanzure> but it claimed it was from some military/opensource conference
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20:54 < juri_> is this android-x86 image supposed to do anything but eat 100% of cpu, type out 'A N D R O I D', and show a shell prompt for less than 30 seconds, before making the screen go black?
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20:56 < yash-phone> "military/opensource"? I think that answers the credibility question
20:57 <@kanzure> juri_: yes
20:57 <@kanzure> juri_: choose vesa mode
20:57 <@kanzure> yash-phone: well, then how do you explain brlcad?
20:58 < yash-phone> I would but I have only the most vague idea of what that is
20:58 < yash-phone> and don't try to tell me because my screen is too small
20:58 <@kanzure> well-written open source cad by the military
20:58 < yash-phone> bah
20:59 < yash-phone> ok, exception that proves the whatever
21:00 < yash-phone> oh so I'm officially attending the xxxtreme futurist fest, plz review the speakers list and lmk who you need punched in the face
21:00 <@kanzure> punch them all in the face
21:00 < yash-phone> k
21:00 <@kanzure> especially that haycord person
21:01 < yash-phone> rachel haywood
21:01 <@kanzure> that's the guy
21:05 < juri_> ok, now i have a stripe that updates.. and does nothing else.
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21:09 < juri_> and stopped updating. :/
21:09 < juri_> oh, there it goes.
21:11 <@kanzure> juri_: i suggest --enable-kvm or --kvm or whatever
21:11 <@kanzure> the whole point of android-x86 is that you don't have to sit around waiting forever
21:12 < juri_> if i enable kvm, it takes out the VM its running inside of.
21:12 <@kanzure> "it takes out" ?
21:12 < juri_> vm lockup.
21:13 <@kanzure> does your computer suck?
21:13 < juri_> i'm tryin to launch it inside of a KVM vm.
21:14 < juri_> no, my VM server rocks. ;)
21:15 < juri_> and... dead VM.
21:16 <@kanzure> try the debug option.
21:20 < jrayhawk> http://www.google.com/search?q=vt-x+vulnerability uh, no?
21:21 <@kanzure> henry markram just sent me a friendvite-thing on linkedin. neat.
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22:07 < DoYouKnow> is it possible to use the theory of quantum deformations to produce acoustic or visual stimuli that shutdown/deactivate or increase the activity of various brain regions apart from the specialized circuits that are normally activated due to a stimulus?
22:09 < DoYouKnow> for example, making a neuralizer
22:09 <@kanzure> what is a neuralizer
22:09 < yash-phone> yeah sure we've had that since 2008
22:10 < DoYouKnow> kanzure: it's a device that erases memory
22:10 < DoYouKnow> in the movie Men in Black
22:10 <@kanzure> why are you here
22:11 < DoYouKnow> to study the brain, I suppose
22:11 < DoYouKnow> or to discuss it
22:15 < DoYouKnow> kanzure: why are you here?
22:16 < DoYouKnow> and what about you yash?
22:16 <@kanzure> i am here to stop people like you from mucking up the place
22:16 <@kanzure> just stop with the quantum/brain stuff while you're ahead and go read some science
22:17 < DoYouKnow> I wasn't saying quantum brain
22:17 < yash-phone> pretty sure you were
22:17 < DoYouKnow> I was saying quantum deformations used as a mathematical tool to produce signals that affect brain activation patterns
22:18 < abetusk> anyone use kicad in here?
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22:20 < abetusk> nmz787, you want to see my latest?
22:21 < DoYouKnow> kanzure: well, particularly stochastic subordination
22:22 < DoYouKnow> which is something that's used to achieve a q-deformation
22:22 < DoYouKnow> of a stochastic process
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22:33 <@fenn> this is possibly the most impenetrable wikipedia article i've come across yet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_group
22:37 <@fenn> i suppose it doesn't help that i was introduced to group theory by a schizophrenic lady
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22:48 < DoYouKnow> http://www.alainconnes.org/docs/book94bigpdf.pdf
22:49 < DoYouKnow> that will explain noncommutative algebras/geometries
22:49 < DoYouKnow> or should
22:50 <@fenn> so your idea is similar to "understand" by ted chiang?
22:56 <@kanzure> why not just forcefully shut down those brain regions by physical force
22:57 < DoYouKnow> because that doesn't sound very useful kanzure
22:57 < DoYouKnow> if you're trying to do something helpful, for example
22:57 < DoYouKnow> you would still cause some damage
22:58 <@fenn> or "the basilisk" in BLIT by Langford is another example
22:58 <@kanzure> DoYouKnow: your goal was to deactivate the brain right? apply physical force, that will stop it.
22:59 <@fenn> he said "... or increase the activity"
22:59 <@kanzure> insert standard ultrasound claims here
22:59 <@fenn> i really don't have a good enough grounding in group theory to understand what the idea is though
23:00 <@fenn> perhaps brownies knows :P
23:04 < DoYouKnow> well, the idea would be slowly transitioning from a frusterated ferromagnetic state (where the hopfield connections are ordered) to a glassy state (where the hopfield connections are random), by a series of random inputs for example, that are deformed in a specific way
23:04 < DoYouKnow> *that are for example, deformed in a specific way
23:05 <@fenn> you would have to know the structure of the network in advance
23:05 < DoYouKnow> that's one idea anyway. The general idea is how to cause nonlocal phase transitions in a magnetic media
23:05 <@fenn> also you'd have to know the rules for changing network topology, which we also don't know :(
23:07 <@fenn> i don't see what magnetic media has to do with it? hard disks aren't spin networks
23:07 < DoYouKnow> well, I mean, the brain is a lot like a magnetic media
23:08 <@fenn> that's a bold statement that deserves further explanation to be taken seriously
23:10 <@fenn> it's like saying "cats are a lot like computers" or "the universe is a lot like a pocketwatch"
23:10 <@kanzure> 3.. 2... 1
23:11 < DoYouKnow> well, for example, spin glasses lose their magnetization after the field is removed similarly to how brain networks by silenced by rTMS
23:11 < DoYouKnow> *are silenced by rTMS
23:11 < DoYouKnow> there is a long remnant period after the rTMS
23:11 <@kanzure> ok that wasn't as terrible as i was expecting
23:12 <@fenn> kanzure: and thus begins the long process of translating math-speak to english
23:13 <@fenn> i don't have time to read this book until i get a clone
23:13  * fenn goes back to shuffling bits
23:14 <@kanzure> DoYouKnow: we have at least two people in here who have built rTMS setups before, but i'm not one of them
23:14 <@kanzure> if you want to stimulate the brain remotely, i suggest ultrasound over rTMS at this point.
23:14 <@kanzure> s/over/instead of/
23:14 <@fenn> somehow i doubt he's an experimentalist
23:14 <@kanzure> what gave it away
23:15 < DoYouKnow> http://www.docstoc.com/docs/13298334/Control-of-Memory-and-Consciousness-with-Psychoacoustical-Phenomenon
23:15 < DoYouKnow> I wrote that
23:16 <@kanzure> i'm concerned because this indicates that you believe in consciousness, but i'll look
23:16 <@kanzure> also, it means you like docstoc
23:17 <@fenn> i haven't figured out how to download it yet
23:19 <@fenn> is there supposed to be a flash player that shows the document?
23:19 <@kanzure> it sends me to a popup and then asks me to pay a monthly fee for access
23:19 < DoYouKnow> d'oh
23:19 < DoYouKnow> ok, let me post something else
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23:20 <@kanzure> verdict: docstoc is as evil as slideshare or scribd, or possibly even more evil
23:20 < DoYouKnow> http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6866/timeviewk.png
23:21 < DoYouKnow> a thought about remote temporal viewing using sonoluminescence
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23:21 < DoYouKnow> viewing distant times
23:21 <@fenn> ok that's enough
23:21 <@fenn> you can leave now
23:23 < DoYouKnow> I am particularly interested in carboniferous period plant life, so some of my effort has gone into retrieving information from past times
23:23 <@fenn> DoYouKnow: do you smoke cigarettes?
23:23 < DoYouKnow> especially moscovian
23:24 < DoYouKnow> no, fenn
23:24 < DoYouKnow> why?
23:24 <@fenn> just curious
23:25 < DoYouKnow> ideally I'd somehow figure out how to grow seed fern plants
23:25 < DoYouKnow> which are long-extinct
23:25 < DoYouKnow> since the late permian afaik
23:25 < DoYouKnow> or mid
23:25 <@fenn> how about DNA sequencing of fossils with electron microscopy
23:26 < DoYouKnow> how would that work? as far as I know, coal balls have the best preservation and there haven't been any studies extracting DNA data
23:26 <@fenn> i mean, how "real" does it have to be anyway?
23:27 <@fenn> if you make a fern that looks like ancient ferns, is it good enough?
23:28 <@fenn> well there are bits and pieces of junk left over.. presumably some of it crystallized around the DNA in such a way that the shape of the crystal depends on what the sequence was
23:28 < DoYouKnow> well, if you can induce an atavism in a cycadale or gingkoale that creates a linear lanceolate pinnae with terminal pinnule, that would be pretty cool
23:28 <@fenn> all highly speculative of course
23:28 < DoYouKnow> right fenn, I've considered that too
23:29 < DoYouKnow> I am very interested in what a terminal pinnule of a seed fern would even look like In Real Life
23:30 <@fenn> also there are computational ways to extrapolate what the sequence of an ancestor is likely to have been, using multiple branches descended from it
23:30 < DoYouKnow> how do you do that?
23:30 <@fenn> uh, viterbi algorithm? i don't know
23:32 <@fenn> the problem is that there's nothing special about any particular node in the tree
23:32 <@fenn> all the ancestors have just as many random mutation as the descendents
23:33 <@fenn> wow i dint know that viterbi decoding could be done in hardware
23:34 < DoYouKnow> well, I would think that the issue would be... if you could build up the proteins from the code you can do peturbation analysis on the situation
23:34 < DoYouKnow> *from the genetic code
23:34 <@fenn> sure, if you have enough computational power available, anything's possible
23:35 < DoYouKnow> then maybe relate it to the branches of a tree... somehow get it down so that given 1 or two distinguishing characteristics from fossils, you can reconstruct the organism
23:35 <@fenn> you could simulate a billion universes and find the one with the prehistoric earth in it
23:35 < DoYouKnow> I don't think science is available to do that yet
23:36 < DoYouKnow> I mean, science + the computing power
23:36 <@fenn> no, right now we can't simulate anything more complex than a hydrogen atom
23:36 <@fenn> everything else is just approximations
23:36 < DoYouKnow> well, this is more than just particles. the universe is ensembles of particles obeying further universal laws, some unknown
23:37  * fenn shrugs
23:37 <@fenn> standard model is a crap theory, but its predictions are very accurate
23:37 < DoYouKnow> yeah, but the standard model doesn't factor in gravitation
23:38 < DoYouKnow> which affects most of the universe more greatly than the other forces
23:38 < DoYouKnow> due to the large scales involved
23:38 < DoYouKnow> or at least as greatly
23:39 <@fenn> the sort of questions you're after are on a smaller scale, where gravity doesn't play much of a role
23:39 <@fenn> you can assume the mass of the earth stays constant
23:39 < DoYouKnow> sure it does, for example... a mudslide encases the last surviving member of a plant species in mud
23:40 < DoYouKnow> due to gravitation
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23:41 < DoYouKnow> or the last grove of a plant species
23:41 < DoYouKnow> there are all sorts of examples that probably have happened over the years that involve gravitation
23:41 <@kanzure> fenn: verdict?
23:42 <@fenn> mostly harmless
23:44 <@fenn> DoYouKnow: are you familiar with the concept of confirmation bias?
23:45 <@fenn> it's something to keep in mind when thinking about whether "remote viewing" is real or not
23:45 < DoYouKnow> however, if you can isolate all the forces on earth from the rest of the universe, which would require a Theory of Everything for the rest of the universe, you might be able to simulate backwards certain events - assuming that quantum unpredictability has some predictable basis
23:46 < DoYouKnow> fenn: I don't believe in remote viewing very strongly as far as the classic CIA remote viewers goes
23:46 < DoYouKnow> Project Stargate, etc
23:47 <@fenn> what other kind is there? satellite cameras?
23:47 < DoYouKnow> no, there might be various chemical or electromagnetic processes that can alter mental state in such a way to allow for non-locality in macroscopic observation
23:48 < DoYouKnow> but afaik, non-locality is restricted to the microscopic realm
23:48 < DoYouKnow> as far as is certain
23:48 <@fenn> how is that different from "the classic CIA" sense
23:49 < DoYouKnow> well, the CIA remote viewers believed that macroscopic non-locality in remote viewing could be achieved without significant understanding of the mathematics or physics of non-local effects themselves
23:49 <@fenn> except now you have to think about the effects of the DMT you smoked in addition to physics and mathematics and neuroscience and experimental design
23:50 < DoYouKnow> fenn: what?
23:51 -!- BioGuy [~BioGuy@184-76-124-69.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:52 <@fenn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine is notorious for producing sensations of remote viewing, time travel, etc.
23:53 <@fenn> if your scientific paradigm assumed that there existed such a thing as "mind" which possessed non-local characteristics and abilities, DMT would be a pretty good bet for someone attempting to activate those abilities
23:54 <@fenn> through some external "chemical or electromagnetic processes"
23:55 <@fenn> anyway, i understand the desire not to be marginalized and maintain pure scientific rigor
23:55 <@fenn> the problem is "purity" still amounts to jack shit if your experimental design is bad
23:55 <@fenn> am i making sense?
23:56 < DoYouKnow> mimosa... that's sensitive plant
23:56 <@fenn> yep
23:57 < DoYouKnow> I used to have a sensitive plant
23:57 < DoYouKnow> cool plants
--- Log closed Wed Dec 19 00:00:02 2012