--- Log opened Fri Dec 21 00:00:05 2012
00:04 -!- Guest47053 [~quassel@64.31.59.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
00:12 < archels> http://www.nature.com/ncb/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/ncb2643.html
00:13 < archels> Increased expression of BubR1 protects against aneuploidy and cancer and extends healthy lifespan
00:31 -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
00:44 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: sivoais, nuba_, brownies
00:44 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: pasky
00:44 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:46 -!- Netsplit over, joins: sivoais, brownies, pasky
00:52 -!- Charlie [~quassel@64.31.59.70] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:52 -!- Charlie is now known as Guest43757
01:36 <@fenn> juri_: i think you should do some simple rate calculations to determine how long it will take to pick-and-place enough cells for an organ, and then see whether they can survive for that long
01:48 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@103-9-42-1.flip.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
01:52 -!- upgrayeddd [uid2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-synlfvmhnwhkxdra] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:54 -!- upgrayeddd_ [uid2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ixtliaflbdjykwed] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:55 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
02:11 -!- _Sol_ [~Sol@c-174-57-58-11.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
02:14 -!- Guest43757 [~quassel@64.31.59.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
02:16 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:17 < juri_> fenn: already a problem i've been working with the other members of the team here on.
02:17 < juri_> keeping the cells alive is important, after all.
02:22 -!- upgrayeddd_ [uid2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rurdxceqtstuacuf] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:58 -!- emancipate [~emancipat@50.14.1.36] has quit [Quit: 12 minutes till doomsday]
03:43 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:00 -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:02 -!- Charlie_ [~quassel@64.31.59.70] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:34 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@pool-71-182-199-191.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:24 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@pool-71-182-199-191.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
06:28 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@p5B13BDB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:28 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@p5B13BDB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host]
06:28 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:49 -!- technicus [~technicus@2602:306:cd10:c6e0:219:d2ff:fe43:1c18] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:06 -!- pan4x [~panax@68.200.160.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:06 -!- panax [panax@131.247.116.140] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:09 -!- pan4x [~panax@68.200.160.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:09 -!- panax [~panax@68.200.160.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:24 -!- AdrienG [~dextro@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:10 -!- abetusk [~abetusk@cpe-24-58-232-122.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
08:42 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+q AdrienG!*@*] by kanzure
08:51 <@kanzure> http://www.cureus.com/competitions/1
08:51 <@kanzure> i guess this is a competitor to peerj?
09:09 -!- yash-phone [~yaaic@70.42.240.21] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:18 -!- yash-phone [~yaaic@70.42.240.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
09:29 < wrldpc> anyone know of anything interesting happening in NYC December 27th-29th, January 4th-6th, or in Boston 29th/30th-January 3rd?  Science/technology/art related stuff.  Lectures, exhibits, conferences, etc.
09:30 <@kanzure> genspace probably does things
09:31 < wrldpc> Cool!
09:46 -!- Guest31163 is now known as tylergillies
09:46 -!- tylergillies [quassel@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:8103] has quit [Changing host]
09:46 -!- tylergillies [quassel@unaffiliated/tylergillies] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:04 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@103-9-42-1.flip.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:07 -!- technicus [~technicus@2602:306:cd10:c6e0:219:d2ff:fe43:1c18] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
10:09 -!- tylergillies [quassel@unaffiliated/tylergillies] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
10:09 -!- tyler [quassel@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:8103] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:10 -!- tyler is now known as Guest23026
10:17 <@kanzure> "Richard Thieme, international BioHacking expert to appear as a ...." haha, i blame forrest for this.
10:17 < juri_> there are biohacking experts?
10:18 <@kanzure> no, he's full of shit
10:18 <@kanzure> he had one phone call with me in 2008 and now he thinks he's a biohacking expert
10:18 <@kanzure> somehow that one phone call became the subject of his defcon talk
10:19 <@kanzure> when forrest was last visiting, he apologized about richard, because he had some interaction with him and might have confused him or something
10:21 < juri_> Nice.
10:21 <@kanzure> what? it's not nice at all.
10:22 < juri_> welcome to a developing field.
10:22 < juri_> whackadoodle crazy is everywhere.
10:22 < juri_> probably including me. ;)
10:30 -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:47 -!- archbox [~archbox@unaffiliated/archbox] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
10:51 -!- Tabrenus [~Tabrenus@213.211.132.86.static.edpnet.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:05 -!- Tabrenus [~Tabrenus@213.211.132.86.static.edpnet.net] has quit [Quit: Tabrenus]
11:10 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-53-136-181.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:16 -!- emancipate [~emancipat@50.14.1.36] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:26 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@pool-71-182-199-191.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:35 -!- Guest23026 is now known as tylergilllies
11:35 -!- tylergilllies is now known as tylergillies
11:35 -!- tylergillies [quassel@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:8103] has quit [Changing host]
11:35 -!- tylergillies [quassel@unaffiliated/tylergillies] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:42 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@pool-71-182-199-191.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
11:42 < tylergillies> just watched http://www.ted.com/talks/peter_diamandis_abundance_is_our_future.html
11:42 < tylergillies> nice video
11:44 <@kanzure> i think pdfernhout.net is a better source of abundance information
11:44 <@kanzure> peter diamandis, at this point, is just a marketing guy
11:44 <@kanzure> not that there's anything wrong with that.. it's just exceedingly unlikely that he is going to provide novel information that you can't get from better sources.
11:46 < tylergillies> kanzure: thnx for link
12:28 < emancipate> where is waldo? https://s3.amazonaws.com/Gigapans/EBC_Pumori_050112_8bit_FLAT/EBC_Pumori_050112_8bit_FLAT.html
12:28 < emancipate> whoops, sorry
12:32 -!- yorick [~quassel@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:32 -!- yorick [~quassel@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Changing host]
12:32 -!- yorick [~quassel@unaffiliated/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:38 -!- yorick_ [~quassel@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:38 -!- yorick_ [~quassel@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Changing host]
12:38 -!- yorick_ [~quassel@unaffiliated/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:38 -!- yorick [~quassel@unaffiliated/yorick] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
13:07 -!- strages_home [~strages@98.67.175.176] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:37 -!- Tabrenus [~Tabrenus@213.211.132.86.static.edpnet.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:48 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:50 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:56 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:57 < panax> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHqVDMr9ivo
14:09 -!- Tabrenus [~Tabrenus@213.211.132.86.static.edpnet.net] has quit [Quit: Tabrenus]
14:10 < archels> http://rj3sp.blogspot.nl/2011/10/rotundus-groundbot-spherical.html
14:15 < archels> http://www.hvlabs.com/Images/max.jpg
14:18 -!- pan4x [panax@131.247.116.140] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:19 -!- panax [~panax@68.200.160.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
14:20 < archels> http://pulse2.com/2009/06/09/the-israeli-defense-force-builds-robot-snake-spy-camera/
14:24 < ArmilusDajjal> nice
14:24 < ArmilusDajjal> islreal is so awesome i converted from satanism to judeasm so i could live there
14:31 < eudoxia> >In case the snake gets discovered, it can self-destruct with the built in explosives.
14:37 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:41 -!- emancipate [~emancipat@50.14.1.36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:53 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-53-136-181.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: quit]
15:45 -!- AdrienG [~dextro@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has left ##hplusroadmap []
16:05 -!- yorick_ is now known as yorick
16:27 -!- yorick [~quassel@unaffiliated/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:30 -!- joshcryer [g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:43 -!- abetusk [~abetusk@cpe-24-58-232-122.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:48 -!- OldCoder_ [~OldCoder_@c-69-181-140-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:56 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:57 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:04 -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:04 <@fenn> pan4x: really cool video, thanks
17:08 <@kanzure> so how about a marketplace/website thing for human enhancement projects
17:08 <@kanzure> for instance, whole genome sequencing would be one potential service. i guess it would work as a referral system.
17:09 <@kanzure> or "creation of a human sperm from a dna sample, fusion with an egg, and implantation into the uterus of a surregate" (erm, "have a child with a dead guy")
17:10 <@kanzure> zonulin would probably be a good example actually
17:10 <@fenn> like MFG.com for bio stuff?
17:11 <@fenn> zonulin antagonist isn't really "human enhancement" so much as "fix the fucking broken medical system"
17:11 <@kanzure> "bio stuff" doesn't quite capture what i had in mind.. just "near term future stuff, or stuff that might be 'futuristic' but is actually plausible but not happening"
17:12 -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com]
17:13 <@kanzure> well, consider the case of prosthetic limbs. a few hundred grand thrown at the right engineer can get you pretty far especially if you have a spare to throw at him.
17:14 <@fenn> a spare limb?
17:14 <@kanzure> spare prosthetic, spare limb.. same thing.
17:14 <@kanzure> i had a family member who needed a leg, he ended up having a few models laying around for whatever reason
17:14 <@kanzure> (they were all terrible, i think he got the short leg of the deal)
17:15 <@fenn> speaking of missing limbs and what to do about it, this guy looks to be onto something http://ase.tufts.edu/biology/labs/levin/
17:16 <@fenn> yah prosthetics is so bad because it's a "medical device" and all the legal bullshit that goes along with developing in that arena
17:16 <@kanzure> also, i'm pretty disappointed with how microelectrode arrays have not been improving resolution or whatever metric has to actually improve for realistic interfacing
17:16 <@kanzure> people think that "brain-controlled prosthetics" means something interesting, but it's really like two muscles that you control and once you have one prosthetic, good luck getting another available muscle group to control anything else with..
17:17 <@fenn> there's ways to get around that.. ensemble coding for example
17:18 <@kanzure> well, i also haven't been reading microelectrode array research for the past ~18 months. i suspect, though, that if something really awesome happened, the news would've gone ballistic.
17:18 <@kanzure> i had this chart once that listed the bit-rate bandwidth of different implants. it was all so sad.
17:18 <@fenn> it's not a huge field. mostly confined to epilepsy research and seeing how large a chunk of someone's brain they can remove without killing them
17:19 <@kanzure> well presumably it would be huger because prosthetics users want better control?
17:19 <@kanzure> or maybe they are just happy to not have a chunk of body missing
17:20 <@fenn> really the issue has been integration with the rest of the body as a whole system, power to weight ratio and energy capacity
17:20 <@fenn> body-powered prosthetics blow any electrical device out of the water on these fronts
17:20 <@fenn> which is the main reason "luke arm" style prosthetics haven't taken off
17:21 <@fenn> by "body-powered" i mean, a hook, or some cable actuated device
17:21 -!- OldCoder_ [~OldCoder_@c-69-181-140-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
17:22 <@kanzure> no disagreement there
17:22 <@fenn> also you have a tighter feedback loop with tactile control of a hook
17:22 <@kanzure> i don't need a hook i need to type
17:23 <@fenn> hard to predict what a robot strapped to your shoulder is going to do
17:23 < joshcryer> kanzure, you already type like a robot dude.
17:23 <@kanzure> i would be faster if i didn't
17:23 <@kanzure> "home row" is a soviet lie
17:24 <@kanzure> designed to impact american productivity
17:24 <@fenn> i think once people realize that it's the structural impedance mismatch between squishy biological nerve tissue and hard silicon crystal chip surface, we'll make some progress on interfacing to nerve bundles
17:25 <@fenn> doesn't matter how high resolution your interface is if the cells die in a week
17:25 <@kanzure> still: there should be a site that currates these already-possible, plausible, near-term-future projects for human enhancement and related projects
17:25 <@kanzure> in many cases, hiring a few biologists (since they are dirt cheap) is quite possible to tackle some project
17:25 <@fenn> what does the site do exactly? catalogs the state of ongoing projects?
17:26 <@kanzure> take rich people's money
17:26 <@fenn> so it's a 501c3?
17:26 <@kanzure> no.
17:26 <@kanzure> i was thinking something more like elance
17:26 <@fenn> it's a business that sells what exactly?
17:27 <@kanzure> it's a business that sells referrals
17:27 <@fenn> hm.. okay then you have a chicken and egg problem
17:27 <@fenn> need clients to get providers, need providers to get clients
17:27 <@kanzure> not entirely. i think i know enough providers that can do some really amazing projects.
17:27 <@fenn> okay well make a list
17:27 <@kanzure> and i'm not as worried about clients.. singularity university is like a huge marketing program for this.
17:28 <@kanzure> "hey you just dumped $25k into singularity university.. how would you like to actually get sequenced?" (sequencing is a bad example because in a year or two it will be trivially cheap)
17:28 <@fenn> you probably have all this in your meetlog already, just need to verify that people are available
17:28 <@kanzure> (and trivial to buy somewhere online)
17:29 <@kanzure> this makes sense for diseases- but that's not very enhancey
17:29 <@fenn> i can't think with all this hare krishna music blaring
17:29 < joshcryer> How long until you can sequence bad samples, like say from an envelope?
17:29 -!- OldCoder_ [~OldCoder_@c-69-181-140-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:30 < joshcryer> (trivially / cheaply I mean)
17:30 <@kanzure> "this provider offers custom/designer drug services" - but research projects can be hit/miss, i don't know.
17:30 <@kanzure> joshcryer: envelopes aren't always bad samples. we can sequence samples from 200,000 years ago. envelopes are probably better preserved.
17:31 <@kanzure> fenn: i think the trick is finding the right match between service providers and what clients are expecting
17:32 <@kanzure> some wealthy people would be surprised what's currently possible and just not available, whereas others might have more specific goals/requirements in mind.
17:35 <@fenn> there are lots of chinese custom drug synthesis companies
17:35 <@fenn> they have a terrible online presence usually
17:36 <@fenn> just accepting paypal instead of international bank transfer would be a huge step forward
17:36 <@kanzure> alibaba doesn't take care of that?
17:36 <@fenn> no
17:36 <@kanzure> craptastic
17:36 <@fenn> aliexpress does, but most suppliers don't use that
17:37 -!- joshcryer [g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
17:37 <@fenn> yeah it's especially annoying for small stuff, where shipping and transfer fees add up to like $100
17:38 <@fenn> assuming the transfer even works, which it takes a week to find out
17:39 <@fenn> anyway i don't know who these clients are you're expecing will line up
17:39 <@fenn> most people don't have $25k to blow on gene sequencing
17:40 <@kanzure> the real question is whether or not there are individuals that are willing to spend to get tech from the future that isn't on the market yet
17:40 <@kanzure> "from the future" is the wrong way to word it but it conveys the right meaning
17:41 <@fenn> it's a price to value ratio question
17:41 <@fenn> you can fund your own research department to make an ipod, or you can wait 5 years and one will be invented by someone else
17:41 <@fenn> maybe that was a bad example
17:42 <@fenn> okay how about zonulin antagonist peptides
17:42 <@kanzure> maybe what you mean to say is, "for any non-life-threatening situations, it pays off to wait for someone else to do whatever rather than spending resources yourself"
17:43 <@fenn> yeah it costs a lot to develop an ipod
17:43 <@fenn> but they only cost $100 or so to buy
17:43 <@fenn> i guess "economy of scale" is what i'm getting at
17:43 <@kanzure> that doesn't matter to me here.. if the minimum amount of cash a user has to pay is $100k then so be it.
17:44 <@fenn> 100 celiac people could afford to fund a zonulin antagonist crash production program so they can get it RIGHT NOW ins tead f wating 5 years for clinical trials
17:44 <@kanzure> in 2004 it was quite possible to build a one-off mp3 player. perhaps not one with the quality of an ipod. but it's not like it was impossible to make a hand-crafted piece of tech..
17:45 <@kanzure> furthermore there was probably more than 1000 engineers/tinkerers who could have done that
17:45 <@kanzure> at that time
17:45 <@fenn> sure
17:46 <@fenn> i remember the "minty mp3"
17:46 <@kanzure> ah yes the one in the mint box
17:46 <@fenn> i guess that was later
17:47 <@fenn> anyway there's nothing special about a DSP with a sound jack
17:47 <@kanzure> if it costs $2M to get a team of chemists to design and test nootropics.. that's fine. but it should be listed and happening somewhere.
17:47 <@fenn> well now you're in the venture capital territory
17:47 <@fenn> i mean it was "big deal" that transcriptic got $1.2m
17:48 <@kanzure> lots of things are funded all the time. $1.2M is small change.
17:48 <@kanzure> also, i think there's something to be said for not requiring all projects to be companies.
17:48 <@fenn> yeah i guess it's a different game
17:48 <@kanzure> one-off projects that have a definite start/end date is more like consulting than building a company that goes public.
17:49 < jrayhawk>  /window 4
17:49 <@kanzure> HA
17:49 <@kanzure> YES
17:49 < jrayhawk> DAMNIT
17:49 <@kanzure> after all these years of giving me shit jrayhawk...
17:49 <@kanzure> should have known
17:50 < jrayhawk> i am undone
17:50 <@fenn> hum i just type alt-4
17:50 <@kanzure> tmux overrides that
17:50 < jrayhawk> normally i use ctrl-p and ctrl-n but i am dumb today
17:50 <@fenn> or esc-4
17:51 <@kanzure> gnome-terminal also overrides alt-n
17:51 < jrayhawk> oh, that's cool
17:51 <@fenn> i'm using gnome terminal
17:51 <@kanzure> aha esc-n. nice. but it doesn't seem to let me type in larger numbers.
17:51 <@fenn> oh, you mean for switching tabs
17:52 <@kanzure> damn it, we need a consistent tab switching convention
17:52 <@fenn> (who came up with this tab idea and how do i go back in time to terminate their conception)
17:52 <@kanzure> chrome is ctrl+page up/down. what sort of fucking nonsense is that?
17:52 <@kanzure> and tmux is ctrl-b ctrl-n/ctrl-p.
17:52 <@fenn> it's not ctrl-tab in chrome?
17:52 <@kanzure> that also works
17:53 <@fenn> tmux isn't tabs though, it's, er... virtual consoles :P
17:53 <@kanzure> xmonad plus labels is really nice
17:53 <@kanzure> alt-w then i type what i want and press enter
17:53 <@kanzure> alt-w gmail, alt-w cnn, alt-w irc, alt-w meetlog
17:53 <@fenn> anyway enough bout switching windows
17:54 <@fenn> where's my HMD with eye tracking head tracking hand tracking sensors built in
17:54 <@kanzure> why? we all know that window switching is the true subject of this channel.
17:55 <@kanzure> is there a way to break my windows out of irssi?
17:55 <@fenn> eh?
17:55 <@kanzure> i can break windows out of firefox and have one window per page
17:55 <@fenn> hm
17:55 <@kanzure> and i can run multiple tmux sessions on a server and just reattach when i please (keeping one gui window open per console)
17:56 <@kanzure> e.g. i want a completely flat interface
17:56 < jrayhawk> you can put everything in the same irssi window
17:56 <@fenn> seems like it would be similar to split windows
17:56 < jrayhawk> it is a bit messy, though
17:56 <@fenn> doesn't work for 100+ channels
17:56 <@kanzure> huh? everything /is/ in the single irssi window.
17:56 < jrayhawk> the irssi conception of a window
17:57 <@kanzure> i don't understand?
17:57 <@fenn> http://quadpoint.org/articles/irssisplit/
17:57 < jrayhawk> an irssi conception of a window in the sense of using /window in irssi
17:57 <@fenn> it's not the solution to your problem
17:58 <@fenn> it's for stuff like having #foo and #foo-dev in the same window
17:58 <@kanzure> actually, irssi can have all of its lousy tabs for all i care
17:58 <@kanzure> as long as i can switch to the exact tab from another application immediately
17:58 <@kanzure> so while browsing around, alt-w irc-hplusroadmap
17:59 <@kanzure> this could probably be accomplished by dumping in "arrow down or \n/join ##hplusroadmap" into the irssi window
17:59 <@kanzure> eh that sounds terrible actually. arrow down might go to the previous line of input, and \n might send an incomplete message.
17:59 < jrayhawk> Yeah, with xmacro or equivalent hooked into your window manager.
17:59 <@kanzure> how do i actually create a new line in irssi anyway? sometimes i have to arrow down for ages.
17:59 < jrayhawk> You might like quassel
18:00 <@fenn> i guess you could use an "irc bouncer" and run multiple display clients, one in each window-manager-window
18:00 <@kanzure> also, this same feature with tmux would be nice.
18:01 <@kanzure> is tmux smart enough to propagate the names of tabs from encapsulated tmux sessions? like irssi within tmux within tmux.
18:03 <@kanzure> search-by-window-name is the future. i have seen the future.
18:04 -!- joshcryer [g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:04 <@fenn> search-as-you-type
18:05 <@fenn> it's basically an unbalanced n-ary decision tree
18:05 <@kanzure> search-as-you-type is awful for google ("google instant") but i think i would be ok with it for my open windows
18:05 <@fenn> ideally it would be balanced but that's hard for people to memorize
18:06 <@kanzure> what do you mean balanced?
18:06 <@fenn> i try to name most of my top level directories starting with different letters so ~/anime doesn't conflict with ~/androids or whatever
18:07 <@fenn> you know how a balanced binary tree works right
18:07 <@kanzure> no, what makes it balanced?
18:08 <@fenn> well say you have a top level directories ~/aaaaaa and ~/aaaaab and ~/aaaaac and there were no such thing as tab completion
18:09 <@fenn> wouldnt it be better to just name them ~/a ~/b and ~/c
18:09 <@kanzure> yes?
18:10 <@fenn> binary trees only have two letters 0 and 1, so you'd have ~/0 and ~/1, and inside thos directories ~/0/0 ~/0/1 ~/1/0 ~/1/1
18:10 <@fenn> an unbalanced binary tree would be like having a whole crapload of directories under ~/0/0/0/0/0/0/
18:10 <@fenn> and nothing in ~/1
18:11 <@kanzure> there are only so many first-three-letter words that make sense for things
18:11 <@kanzure> zxcv isn't going to be prefixing many things
18:11 < jrayhawk> uzbl supposedly does a good job of disabling tabs and making search-by-title model work for web browsing, at lesat
18:11 < jrayhawk> least
18:11 <@fenn> so, when switching to named tabs, it would be best if you evenly distributed the tab names over the alphabet
18:11 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: ever since xmonad i have been using new windows just fine
18:11 <@kanzure> uzbl does windows managed by itself? or what?
18:12 <@fenn> i have so many tabs open i don't even remember what i have open, so i'm not sure making it easier to switch is oging to help
18:12 <@fenn> i really like the idea of tab groups, and unfortunately firefox butchered the implementation
18:13 <@kanzure> fenn: i use firefox's tree style tab to make it easy to read my oepn tabs
18:13 <@fenn> tree style tab doesn't fix memory consumption though
18:13 <@kanzure> also, toomanytabs is supposed to slowly move tabs into bookmarks/cache and remove them from active memory
18:13 <@fenn> o rly
18:13 <@kanzure> but i don't know if that works when you're using windows instead of tabs
18:13 <@kanzure> i might have to fix it, dunno.
18:13 <@kanzure> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/toomanytabs-saves-your-memory/
18:14 < jrayhawk> uzbl doesn't have a concept of tabs, and works pretty hard to disable the target="_blank" and related friends
18:14 <@kanzure> it also has a weird thing about rows of tabs.. rows are evil.
18:14 <@kanzure> "To SPEED UP your Firefox, when a tab is added to TMT, it is unloaded from browser and its tab state & history are stored in TMT. When you click on a tab, the tab is opened again from disk cache, with tab state & history restored if available; (Please note that the memory freed varies and is subjected to different websites.)"
18:15 <@kanzure> oh that makes it sound like you have to manually click which tabs you want to store..
18:16 <@fenn> damn how did i not find this when i was reading about tab management extensions
18:16 <@kanzure> no it's manual, it's worthless. you'd be better writing your own version.
18:17 <@fenn> i'm really not impressed by chrome or firefox lately, compared to how fast midori loads
18:18 <@fenn> it's like they forgot about the concept of disk cache and have to reload all the tabs from the internet
18:19 <@fenn> now i just need to be able to save/close entire midori windows
18:20 <@kanzure> ITAR reform "I just got a notification that both the house and senate passed a bill to remove satellites and related technology from the USML, subject to restrictions on specific countries. Technology would still be restricted by the department of commerce export list, but that should be slightly less restrictive."
18:21 <@fenn> oh i see what you mean about rows.. blegh
18:21 <@kanzure> ah nevermind "The bill gave the president back the authority to move satellite related technologies off the USML, with congressional approval...which could take a while."
18:21 <@fenn> obama doesn't give a shit about space development
18:21 <@kanzure> yeah i missed the second part, sorry. move along.
18:22 <@fenn> maybe it will make a difference when marshall brain gets elected :P
18:22 <@kanzure> i'm pretty sure he's busy smoking cigars made of hundred dollar bills with his family
18:26 <@fenn> does tmt for chrome sync with tmt for firefox?
18:26 <@kanzure> unlikely. when i looked they didn't seem to be the same thing.
18:27 <@kanzure> "Features: Bird's eye view of all opened tabs" why would i want that. i just want tabs to go away and magically come back.
18:27 <@kanzure> "Import tabs data from TooManyTabs for Firefox" what. that's bizarre.
18:29 <@fenn> not bizarre
18:29 <@fenn> chrome is faster at js
18:29 <@kanzure> this is just not what i remembered. maybe there was another chrome extension with the same name.
18:30 <@fenn> but lacking in extension configurability
18:30 <@fenn> so if you want to change colors (the right way) use firefox. if you want to do heavy duty map browsing use chrome
18:31 <@kanzure> on an unrelated note, it would be nice to be able to manipulate the dom in a window from the command line, instead of using the webkit inspector.
18:31 <@fenn> yeah. there's no way to do that?
18:31 <@kanzure> no.
18:31 <@fenn> using dbus or something
18:31 <@kanzure> at the moment it doesn't exist.
18:32 <@fenn> unbelievable
18:33 <@fenn> well seems i'm not the first person to think of using dbus, but none of it went anywhere
18:33 <@kanzure> it would be nice to do things like "browser tab-identifier javascript <js to inject goes here>(or files or stdin support)" and "browser tab-identifier assets" to list loaded remote resources
18:33 <@kanzure> why would you say dbus in this case?
18:33 <@fenn> it's the modern popular inter process communication layer
18:33 <@fenn> on linux at last
18:33 <@fenn> least*
18:34 <@kanzure> i'm aware of what it is but wouldn't that mean i have to write lots of C++ to get webkit to work on this
18:34 <@fenn> it's the "browser tab-identifier" part of the string
18:34 <@fenn> no dbus messages can be sent from the shell
18:34 <@kanzure> my first thought would be "write a line of javascript that gets injected into a page, then the shell command talks to the server that the javascript tag is talking to"
18:34 <@fenn> it worked great for konqueror 2 years ago
18:35 -!- kkk3 [577e635e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.126.99.94] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:35 <@kanzure> "extract all URIs from konqueror using dbus" well that's fucking neat
18:36 <@kanzure> i can't find anything about this
18:37 <@fenn> there was a gui browser for navigating the tree of available resources
18:37 <@fenn> this is how i made a new window magically appear: dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=`qdbus org.kde.konqueror* | head -n 1` /KonqMain org.kde.Konqueror.Main.openBrowserWindow string:"$*" array:byte:
18:38 <@kanzure> making a new window appears in other browsers is just "google-chrome http://whatever/"
18:38 <@fenn> well that wasn't a feature back then
18:38 <@fenn> (and there was no such thing as google chrome then)
18:39 <@kanzure> js-core-dbus
18:39 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
18:40 <@kanzure> browser-dbus-bridge
18:40 <@kanzure> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dbus/2008-November/010584.html
18:40 <@kanzure> http://sandbox.movial.com/gitweb?p=browser-dbus-bridge.git
18:41 <@kanzure> oh.. this is for javascript to get access to the dbus, but not the other way around?
18:42 <@fenn> i guess you could have your js constantly polling some command file to see if it's been written to
18:43 <@fenn> i just figured there would be some hook in the webkit implementation already that you could call
18:43 <@kanzure> i would probably use a websocket to talk to a server that is running as a daemon
18:44 <@kanzure> or whatever weinre does like on http://debug.phonegap.com/
18:44 <@fenn> what's the goal here?
18:44 <@kanzure> less awful web development by using a command line instead of a gui to debug html/css/javascript
18:45 <@fenn> so basically you want a js console
18:46 <@kanzure> and access to other browser things
18:47 <@kanzure> like session cookies
18:47 <@kanzure> (which you can get through other means obviously, but shuttup)
18:57 -!- kkk3 [577e635e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.126.99.94] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
19:31 -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:37 -!- emancipate [~emancipat@50.14.1.36] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:46 -!- Guest93122 [~archbox@ip72-201-163-66.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:59 -!- Guest93122 is now known as archbox_
20:59 -!- archbox_ [~archbox@ip72-201-163-66.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host]
20:59 -!- archbox_ [~archbox@unaffiliated/archbox] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:59 < nmz787> kanzure
21:00 <@kanzure> sup
21:00 < nmz787> what was that command you wanted me to type in cyanogenmod?
21:00 <@kanzure> lsmod | grep net
21:00 < nmz787> nada
21:01 < nmz787> not there
21:01 <@kanzure> k that sucks
21:01 <@kanzure> means you don't have iptables
21:01 -!- _Sol_ [~Sol@c-174-57-58-11.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:01 < nmz787> :O
21:02 < nmz787> time you make a firewall app with iptables and sell it for a dollar
21:02 <@kanzure> iptables requires the netfilter module to be installed
21:03 <@kanzure> oops i mean it requires the netfilter module to be compiled into the kernel
21:03 <@kanzure> .. i think.
21:03 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: please check my ignorance
21:07 <@kanzure> because it looks like i don't currently have netfilter running btu i know iptables is. so that can't be right.
21:16 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
21:32 -!- archbox_ [~archbox@unaffiliated/archbox] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
21:32 -!- Guest35667 [~archbox@ip72-201-163-66.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:32 < abetusk> http://wyolum.com/wyolum-innovation-grant-2012-applications/
21:37 <@fenn> oh dont remind me
21:38 <@fenn> there were only 5 applicants?
21:38 < abetusk> 6th is the SparkFun tour?
21:38 <@fenn> bah
21:38 < abetusk> Ah, maybe they gave it to SparkFun because there were only 5 applicants?
21:39 < abetusk> You're not a fan of the grant?
21:39 <@fenn> uh. i was thinking about applying but didn't have my shit together
21:39 <@fenn> sparkfun is a business, why do they need a grant?
21:39 < abetusk> oh, too bad.  What was your project?
21:40 < abetusk> For the tour that they're putting on
21:40 < abetusk> The link is to the kickstarter page
21:40 <@kanzure> that doesn't answer the question
21:40 <@kanzure> yes i'm aware that sparkfun was running a kickstarter campaign
21:40 <@kanzure> but don't they make piles of cash?
21:40 <@fenn> yeah they charge $15 for a character LCD module
21:41 < abetusk> Do you really think being in the kit selling business is lucrative?
21:41 <@fenn> don't tell me it costs $10 to stuff it in a cute red cardboard box
21:41 < abetusk> They do a lot of development...
21:41 < abetusk> Don't understand where the hate is coming from
21:42 <@fenn> it just seems sort of weird to ask your customers for money to take your business on tour
21:42 <@fenn> for reference i bought a brand new LCD module from hong kong for $2
21:44 < abetusk> fenn, no, I undertand, and I try and do most of my shopping through ebay, aliexpress, etc. for precisely that reason.  But paying $15 for an LCD screen that is known to be working, has a datasheet, has documentation and effectively has a warranty behind it is worth $13 to some people
21:45 < abetusk> worth the $13 extra I mean to say
21:45 <@fenn> i wish all their products had documentation and example code
21:46 <@fenn> as far as businesses and especially startups go, sparkfun is pretty responsible and communicative to their customers
21:47 -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:47 <@fenn> but i can't see their tour as anything more than a sparkfun-promotion tour
21:49 < abetusk> I'm all for supporting those guys, but it seems like it was teaching pre-teens how to solder.  Not my idea of a good time
21:49 < abetusk> fenn, if you don't mind me asking, what was the project you were going to submit?
21:49 <@fenn> i've been to their soldering tent at maker faire etc, and it's nothing like real electrical engineering.
21:49 <@fenn> it's learning how to use the kits, which admittedly is where electrical engineering is headed..
21:50 <@fenn> i've got a large number of possible projects
21:50 <@fenn> wyolum took down their application guidelines so i dont know which one fit best
21:50 < abetusk> I think the idea is to get people interested in electronics, rather than teaching electronics.  Making electronics "accessible"
21:50 <@fenn> looking at what got funded, the wearable chording keyboard would have been a good fit
21:51 -!- Guest35667 [~archbox@ip72-201-163-66.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
21:52 < juri_> kanzure: the project the biohacking group here is working on is micro electrode arrays.
21:52 < abetusk> I've wanted one of those for a while
21:53 <@fenn> or a wrist accelerometer activity logger, quite similar to the logger on there electronically, but miniaturized
21:54 -!- emancipate is now known as emancipated
21:55 < abetusk> I'm waiting for small, cheap, low power GPS so you can put a position logger on it as well
21:55 <@fenn> anyway basis is (finally) out so you can go blow $300 on that if you're into that sort of thing
21:58 -!- archbox_ [~archbox@ip72-201-163-66.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:58 -!- archbox_ [~archbox@ip72-201-163-66.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host]
21:58 -!- archbox_ [~archbox@unaffiliated/archbox] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:01 <@fenn> looks like anool (the guy behind wyolum) sells electronics testing and measuring equipment as his business
22:03 <@fenn> low power gps would be nice
22:06 -!- archbox_ is now known as archbox
22:06 < abetusk> basis?
22:08 <@fenn> mybasis.com an accelerometer pulse and gsr logger, aimed at hip young fitness enthusiasts
22:09 <@fenn> i still dont know what sort of data is possible to get off the thing, despite knowing several people who work there
22:11 -!- emancipated is now known as emancipate
22:12 <@fenn> pff none of the hardware people are on the "team" page
22:25 <@fenn> kanzure did you ever meat jean rintoul? http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=17219393
22:27 <@kanzure> no and the only entry i have is you mentioning him 2011-07-19
22:27 <@kanzure> ah we were talking with kevin kelly
22:30 <@fenn> yeah there were a lot of people there
22:30 -!- joshcryer [g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
22:30 <@fenn> including nmz787?
22:31 <@fenn> i never did look at cytoscape-web
22:31 <@kanzure> i'm p. sure he was driving you around
22:32 <@fenn> well this is why i keep this log, to remember these important details :P
22:33 <@fenn> hrm cytoscape is flash
22:33 <@fenn> that's disappointing
22:34 <@kanzure> oops, correction.. jean rintoul is also in my incidence collision detection system as being somehow associated with diybio.
22:34 <@fenn> what the hell does "Cytoscape Web is a Flash component with a Javascript API." mean
22:35 <@kanzure> it probably means it exposes some javascript functions
22:35 <@kanzure> http://viget.com/inspire/bi-directional-actionscript-javascript-communication
22:35 <@fenn> why isnt it just javascript? wah.
22:36 <@kanzure> in the dark ages (2001) i fancied myself an actionscript expert
22:36 <@kanzure> <--- deep shame
22:37 <@kanzure> back then i think it was called flash 4
22:38 <@fenn> how funny is it that the demo doesn't work
22:38 <@fenn> the viget.com thing
22:39 <@fenn> it tries to contact airbrake.io but nothing happens
22:39 <@fenn> fucking "designers"
22:55 -!- Juul [~Juul@50-0-83-116.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:38 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:47 < juri_> kanzure: we should all get the oportunity to become wise enough to be embarassed at the things we did when we were young.
23:48 <@kanzure> why
23:48 <@kanzure> what?
23:49 <@fenn> actionscript
--- Log closed Sat Dec 22 00:00:07 2012