--- Log opened Thu Dec 27 00:00:12 2012
00:01 < joshcryer> One act worthy of a death sentence is pursuing holistic medicine for a very curable illness that, without scientific treatment, will result in said death sentence.
00:01 < erasmus> fenn the world isn't flat.
00:02 < strangewarp> I read this entire conversation and I wanna barf btw
00:02  * strangewarp goes back to hardware hacking
00:10 <@kanzure> 00:02 < user___> is there a way to use ultrasound to apply net forces to fluids in a sealed chamber
00:10 <@kanzure> 00:03 < kanzure_> yes... consider ultrasound surgery, transcranial ultrasound stimulation, ultrasound imaging of fetuses, etc.
00:10 <@kanzure> 00:07 < user___> no i don't mean mean squared strain or something, i mean dc forces per unit volume
00:11 <@fenn> no, ultrasound is inherently AC
00:12 <@fenn> you'd need something like a valvular conduit (flow rectifier)
00:12 <@fenn> a check valve in plumbing terms
00:13 <@fenn> i guess something similar to optical tweezers (the lemon pip effect) might work, but that's solids, not fluids
00:13 <@kanzure> 00:08 < user___> i thought of it when i heard of doppler measurement of jet engine fuel line flow rates
00:15 <@fenn> i guess the ultrasound reflects off flow instabilities in the fluid in that case
00:16 <@kanzure> couldn't you add some responsive material that gets filtered out before it hits spark plugs or w/e?
00:16 <@fenn> yes, solids
00:18 <@fenn> there is a haptic interface that uses standing ultrasound waves, so it's definitely possible with solids
00:18 <@fenn> but you would have to track and target large numbers of these dust specks
00:19 <@fenn> anyway what's the point? microfluidics?
00:19 <@kanzure> i told user__ that i don't want to play channel bridge
00:19 <@fenn> meh
00:20 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: can't you just type /join on his client for me?
00:27 < joshcryer> I thought you'd initiated a new bridge feature on your nickname and felt it was inelegant, heh.
00:43 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=ee3e909c Bryan Bishop: an actually transhumanist declaration
00:46 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=54526ca2 Bryan Bishop: fight with markdown syntax
00:46 <@kanzure> ah much better
01:03 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: any ideas on fixing the redirect? http://diyhpl.us/wiki/declaration
01:03 <@kanzure> that redirect has always annoyed me
01:03 <@kanzure> it's not a directory so i don't see why it wants to add a slash
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04:11 <@fenn> do conversations with steve always converge on hyperbolic discounting or is it just me?
04:14 < jrayhawk> direction.mdwn gets rendered as direction/index.html; otherwise there'd be no way to hint an appropriate mimetype to the httpd
04:15 < jrayhawk> though apache supports client mime negotiation, so i guess that would still technically work for the common case
04:15 < jrayhawk> most httpds suck, though
04:15 <@fenn> another potential contender for the nootropic effects of butter is serine, a NMDA receptor agonist
04:16 <@fenn> co-agonist, whatever
04:18 <@fenn> heh there's a group promoting this molecule http://www.serine.org/backgrounddr.htm
04:21 <@fenn> in butter it would be found as phosphatidylserine
04:30 <@fenn> hmm i can't seem to find any data on how much is actually there per gram of butter
04:31 < juri_> you know, i've thrown away two GC/MS systems in my life. questions like that make me regret.
04:32 <@fenn> yeah i would really like to see an open source mass spec
04:33 <@fenn> HPLC or even TLC would answer a lot of these questions though
04:33 <@fenn> they require purified standards for calibration though, making it less convenient
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04:43 <@fenn> wow 480ug/g phosphatidylserine in atlantic mackerel
04:44 <@fenn> that's almost as high as brain
04:44 <@fenn> i wonder why they dont do studies on "mackerel extract"
04:45 <@fenn> aka mackerel-derived phosphatidyl serine.. at least it would stop all these people from trying to find cow brain extract
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04:53 < jrayhawk> what's wrong with cow brain extract
04:53 <@fenn> it's contaminated with BSE
04:53 <@fenn> supposedly
04:54 < jrayhawk> BSE is a CAFO malady
04:54 < jrayhawk> nobody should be eating CAFO beef in the first place
05:01 <@fenn> well anyway it's illegal to sell cow brain extract, and nobody is providing mackerel extract (fish oil aside)
05:01 <@fenn> it doesn't seem so hard to just synthesize the fucker from serine and DHA
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07:34 < archels> I am writing to invite you to submit an article to the journal
07:34 < archels> "Lovotics: Academic Studies of Love and Friendship with Robots," which
07:34 < archels> is is an open-access peer-reviewed, and fully refereed journal that
07:34 < archels> chuckle
07:34 < archels> edited by a
07:34 < archels> Japanese, appropriately
07:35  * archels checks the calendar... no, not April 1st yet
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07:49 < fommil> Hi all – I've just cloned emokit and I'm hoping to get the emo working from Scala by possibly porting the python code. Anyone done anything similar?
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09:03 < delinquentme> How do mesenchymal stem cells from fat?
09:06 < delinquentme> kanzure, ?
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10:31 < Lucas_> hello?
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11:07 <@kanzure> delinquentme: probably the same way you convert any other cell into stem cells, http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/stem-cells/
11:08 <@kanzure> fommil: to my knowledge nobody has ported emokit to scala.
11:08 <@kanzure> lucas_: stay more than a few minutes dude.
11:08 < yashgaroth> I think agevivo meant extracting the adult stem cells from fat tissue
11:10 <@kanzure> oh.
11:10 < yashgaroth> fat tissue is rich in mesenchymals, and you won't miss it
11:11 < yashgaroth> then again it might be easier for him to induce them instead, since separating, indentifying and expanding them is hella difficult
11:12 < yashgaroth> also did you guys see the story about the woman who had some cosmetic stem cell surgery and got bones growing in her eyes? because HEH
11:13 < yashgaroth> yeah I told lucas_ I'd be here, but I'm sure as fuck not waking up early this week
11:17 <@kanzure> nope i did not see that story
11:18 < yashgaroth> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=stem-cell-cosmetics is a decent coverage of it, I suppose
11:19 < yashgaroth> I'm mostly interested because myostatin inhibition could conceivably be considered "cosmetic" and then I can do whatever the fuck I want, apparently :V
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11:30 < tylergillies> http://www.roboy.org/
11:31 <@kanzure> it only costs $290k?
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12:25 < ThomasEgi> that rendering is funny. note the balljoint at the shoulder.
12:26 < ThomasEgi> but how did they rise almost 300k?
12:26 <@kanzure>  /win 4
12:26 <@kanzure> jifoasdfjia
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14:47 < juri_> FWIW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5yOqY7wk8E <-- new favorite 3d printer design, for printing biomaterials.
14:48 < juri_> cheap, and non-moving bed.
14:48 <@kanzure> what is it?
14:48 <@kanzure> so we don't have to watch the video.
14:48 < juri_> sure. its called the makibot.
14:48 < juri_> the a6, specifically.
14:48 <@kanzure> do you mean makerbot
14:48 < juri_> it uses a head moving on three axises.
14:48 < juri_> nope.
14:49 < juri_> http://www.makible.com/products/makibox-a6-1
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14:51 < juri_> moving X-Y, and the plate on a moving Z.
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14:51 < juri_> I think thats more useful, for biomaterial printing. moving-Y plate is just asking for trouble.
14:52 <@kanzure> did we successfully convince you against pick and place?
14:53 < juri_> i think we're having a terminology problem: i'm talking about doing pick-and-place on this platform. tho, i'm fine with 'grow_in_a_bath-extrude'.
14:53 <@kanzure> individual cell pick and place (like with an atomic force microscope) is just horribly inefficient
14:54  * juri_ nods.
14:54 <@kanzure> erm sorry, i mean some bigger tip than an afm.
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18:24 <@kanzure> "Foresight has been joined in the program by support from sister organizations and others including 20Under20 (the Thiel Foundation), Autodesk, SENS, Humanity+ and The Singularity Institute."
18:24 <@kanzure> it's still weird to see autodesk dicking around in these things
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18:25 < yashgaroth> carlo's working there now, for whatever reason
18:25 <@kanzure> quinonez?
18:25 < yashgaroth> mhm
18:26 <@kanzure> what i thought he was betting it big on aquinas
18:26 < yashgaroth> house-swapping with jojack
18:26 < yashgaroth> yeah idk what he's doing with aquinas, that's just what I hear
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20:27 < abetusk> evening
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21:32 < nmz787> so i'm interested in SLS or layer-by-layer lithography type methods for physical construction
21:34 < nmz787> making a gantry for nano or micro scale stuff is pretty hard, but maybe a stepper for a DLP chip exposure system would work... the small features are defined by the DLP chip, and using XY and maybe rotation, you could match up the corners if you wanted to
21:35 <@kanzure> what did you think about that dlp-converted-reprap-thing?
21:36 <@kanzure> lemon
21:36 <@kanzure> lemonsomething
21:36 < superkuh> curry
21:36 < yashgaroth> party
21:36 <@kanzure> oops.
21:36 <@kanzure> no superkuh has it right.. lemoncurry.
21:37 < nmz787> yeah i remember seeing that, i'm not sure they moved the DLP projection area
21:37 < nmz787> or if tey just did layers
21:37 <@kanzure> lemonparty is for old guys
21:37 < nmz787> i.e. moving the Z
21:37 < yashgaroth> couldn't resist, sorry
21:37 <@kanzure> yashgaroth: next you'll be quoting me tubgirl.. you're an old geezer.
21:38 < yashgaroth> hey now
21:38 < nmz787> i've also been thinking about fresnel lenses, but being used as reflectors
21:38 < nmz787> sputtering metal is relatively easy, making reaplicas of fresnel lenses would be easy
21:39 < nmz787> and reflectors don't suffer from chromatic aberration
21:39 < nmz787> they sufffer from other aberration but I think that's somewhat easier to correct for in software than chromatic smudging is
21:40 < nmz787> so then you could really have a whole replicable optical system for something like a reflecting microscope or spectrometer
21:41 < superkuh> Reflectors might not but won't fresnel reflectors will have slightly different focal lengths for different frequencies?
21:42 < nmz787> i'm not sure if reflection follows the same wavelength dependence as refraction
21:43 < nmz787> or if they're the same, but with much differnt ratios of relfection to transmission
21:46 < superkuh> Yes. I have understood how I was confused now.
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23:34 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=55710c4e Bryan Bishop: some text about the proactionary principle
23:34 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=31ad6818 Bryan Bishop: write down some obvious transhumanist statements
23:37 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=4d83a1bf Bryan Bishop: switch the font to Times New Roman
23:45 <@fenn> nmz787: reflection is wavelength independent but such a small spacing between fresnel rings is bound to give diffraction artifacts, which is wavelength dependent
23:46 <@fenn> looks like i was already into nanotech in 1991 http://fennetic.net/irc/redesign_the_human_body.jpg
23:47 < nmz787> fenn: hmm good point, but would the diffraction crap be filterable easily?
23:48 <@fenn> well if you're only using one wavelength it shouldnt matter as much
23:48 < nmz787> it would probably go all over the place at the edge, huh, spewing light out in all directions?
23:49 < nmz787> well i was thinking of reflective optics for cheap microscopes or spectrometers, or at least easily replicable
23:49 <@fenn> i dont get how you're planning on making a smooth slope with SLS anyway
23:49 < nmz787> so multiple wavelength correction was what i was thinking
23:49 <@fenn> and what does "replicable" mean
23:49 < nmz787> ahh
23:49 <@fenn> like with vinyl records?
23:49 < nmz787> good point actually
23:49 <@fenn> or compact discs
23:49 < nmz787> well i know some stuff is made using diffraction patterns
23:50 < nmz787> so the resist is brigther where it needs to be thinner, erc
23:50 < nmz787> etc
23:50 <@fenn> oh so this is a completely analog process?
23:50 < nmz787> i'm not sure :/
23:50 <@fenn> do you know how holographic diffraction gratings are made?
23:51 < nmz787> rather i'm not sure on the holographic/diffraction pattern stuff
23:51 < nmz787> no
23:51 <@fenn> well me neither
23:53 <@fenn> der. well this is something i've never heard of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridged_mirror
23:56 < nmz787> fenn check this out http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2011/lc/c1lc20411d
23:56 <@fenn> "The multiple Fresnel diffraction at nearly placed periodical ridges (ridged mirror) causes the specular reflection"
23:56 <@fenn> so perhaps taking diffraction to the limit will simply equate to a flat mirror
23:58 <@fenn> what are the lego dots for?
--- Log closed Fri Dec 28 00:00:13 2012