--- Log opened Sun Jan 27 00:00:42 2013
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00:48 < JayDugger> I checked the logs without
00:48 < JayDugger> seeing
00:48 < JayDugger> this...
00:48 < JayDugger> http://www.cornyn.senate.gov/public/?a=Files.Serve&File_id=74c0afb3-1bc2-49f5-9150-0a8f004ef438
00:49 < JayDugger> Senator Cornyn (R-TX) sends Attorney General Holder a nasty letter re:Aaron Schwartz.
00:50 < JayDugger> Let Cornyn's office know what you think. http://www.cornyn.senate.gov/public/?a=Files.Serve&File_id=74c0afb3-1bc2-49f5-9150-0a8f004ef438
00:53 < kanzure> someone is claiming that FOIA can be used to get pdfs
00:53 < kanzure> i'm not sure if this is true, it sounds suspicious
00:54 < JayDugger> PDFs of what, kanzure. I've been arguing with my wife and my head is not on straight.
00:54 < JayDugger> papers?
00:54 < kanzure> papers.
00:54 < kanzure> JayDugger: never go to sleep with your wife angry, blah blah blah insert bogus marriage advice here
00:55 < brownies> that is an interesting twist
00:55 < JayDugger> Yeah...we got married. She has a house. I have housework--all of the house work. We also sleep on opposite schedules, so no big deal.
00:56 < JayDugger> All's well. I'll ask for housecleaning service next Christmas. :)
00:56 < kanzure> JayDugger: did you know that you can just pay people to clean your house?
00:56 < brownies> you're a stay-at-home dad?
00:56 < brownies> man, color me jealous. that sounds awesome.
00:56 < JayDugger> Gosh, no. I work third shift.
00:57 < brownies> oh =(
00:58 < JayDugger> As for FOIA getting papers, try muckrock.co,
00:58 < kanzure> brownies: so i think the FOIA claim is probably wrong. while the research is funded by tax dollars, the research institutions supposedly signed over the copyrights.
00:58 < JayDugger> .com, even.
00:58 < JayDugger> They'll file FOIA for you, IIRC.
00:59 < JayDugger> Here's there page for Silk Road. https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/bitcoin-and-silk-road-1385/
00:59 < kanzure> one FOIA per pdf that you want is horribly inefficient, since most requests are not processed immediately.
01:00 < JayDugger> Very, so even if it works, it'll suck.
01:00 < JayDugger> Here's muckrock for another Silk Road investigation from last year. https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/bitcoin-and-silk-road-1385/
01:01 < JayDugger> Oh, and I meant hiring housecleaners for Christmas. I'll have the house cleaned by then.
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02:36 < kanzure> hmm so apparently i sent an fbi foia request in 2009 and then again in 2010 with no formal response besides "we've received your request"
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03:29 < kanzure> "aaronsw scraped 900k books from google books that are in the public domain, but they haven't been edited yet http://archive.org/details/googlebooks "
03:30 < kanzure> ugh formatting http://archive.org/stream/zeitschriftfuer135unkngoog/zeitschriftfuer135unkngoog_djvu.txt
03:30 < kanzure> or erm.. i mean. ocr artifacts.
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04:12 < kanzure> hmm
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04:43 < kanzure> juri_: also, actual review of skdb specifications or contributions on that front would be pretty handy. none of the existing package managers really solve the same problems.
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05:02 < kanzure> chris_99: do you have an athens login?
05:02 < chris_99> i don't think so
05:03 < kanzure> aren't you in the uk?
05:03 < chris_99> yeah
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05:05 < kanzure> HEx1: what about you? athens?
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05:07 < HEx1> hi kanzure. I've heard of it. but no, I don't currently have access to such a thing, if that's what you're asking
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05:08 < kanzure> HEx1: okay, thank you.
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05:15 < HEx1> is this related to journal scraping?
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05:26 < kanzure> HEx1: eh, not entirely.. i just want to see the athens control panel in action. and to examine cookies.
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05:39 < gnusha_> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=8bfa7b2a Bryan Bishop: a few more biohacking articles
05:54 < gnusha_> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/paperbot/commit/?id=e6842c14 Bryan Bishop: README: initial content
05:54 < gnusha_> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/paperbot/commit/?id=32d476fa Bryan Bishop: README: add a link to phenny
05:54 < gnusha_> paperbot: reload papers
05:55 < kanzure> ah right that wont work because gnusha_ is not gnusha
05:56 < gnusha_> /nick gnusha
05:56 < kanzure> what.
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06:04 < kanzure> remote:    19c9076..35682de  master     -> origin/master
06:04 < kanzure> remote: warning: inexact rename detection was skipped due to too many files.
06:04 < kanzure> remote: warning: you may want to set your merge.renamelimit variable to at least 1383 and retry the command.
06:05 < gnusha_> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/paperbot/commit/?id=dfb9b34c Bryan Bishop: explicitly list some python dependencies
06:05 < gnusha_> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/paperbot/commit/?id=88aff1a0 Bryan Bishop: README: describe another paperbot compulsion
06:05 < gnusha_> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/paperbot/commit/?id=1fe6d64d Bryan Bishop: README: also also
06:05 < gnusha_> paperbot: reload papers
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11:08 < archels> http://25.media.tumblr.com/c7ad6ab2b58160a897fe1e23f264a122/tumblr_mfttyuUHbf1qjmk64o1_500.jpg
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13:07 < kanzure> yashgaroth: hi
13:07 < yashgaroth> yo
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13:50 < kanzure> paperbot: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/cr030203g
13:50 < paperbot> error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Nonaqueous%20Liquid%20Electrolytes%20for%20Lithium-Based%20Rechargeable%20Batteries.pdf
13:51 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10442032
13:51 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/dffaabb6175762ffafcd3064b3853b2b.txt
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14:10 < kanzure> "We've started up an EastBay DIYBio group (we've met twice so far in Downtown Oakland at www.sudoroom.org , a great, new and welcoming melded hackerspace) and we'd love to invite anyone interested in meeting with us the last Friday of each month in the East bay to come and join us!"
14:10 < kanzure> https://groups.google.com/group/east-bay-diybio
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14:13 < gnusha_> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=f4990753 Bryan Bishop: add east-bay-diybio group
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14:37 < favetelinguis> hi all, anyone from sweden on here?
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14:40 < kanzure> favetelinguis: splicer is in sweden.
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15:09 < favetelinguis> cant see him online now, will look out for him, thanks
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17:46 < kanzure> favetelinguis: welcome back
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18:50 < kanzure> web inspector commits rss feed http://peter.sh/data/web-inspector-rss.php
18:52 < kanzure> http://paulirish.com/2011/web-browser-frontend-and-standards-feeds-to-follow/
19:10 < kanzure> yashgaroth: is sheldrake more or less of a quack than hameroff?
19:10 < kanzure> i misplaced my quack decoder ringer. sheldrake is the "morphogenetic field" guy. :/
19:10 < yashgaroth> I have luckily not heard of either of them
19:11 < yashgaroth> however from a brief googling they are both detrimental to humanity
19:11 < kanzure> k
19:11 < kanzure> the wikipedia article on "morphogenetic field" looks like a sane thing now, it looks like they shoved all of sheldrake's stuff into a subsection.
19:13 < yashgaroth> yeah that'll happen
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19:19 < kanzure> lab protocol videos http://www.benchfly.com/
19:19 < kanzure> "opening a locked ultracentrifuge" http://www.benchfly.com/video/50/opening-a-locked-ultracentrifuge/
19:20 < kanzure> http://www.benchfly.com/video/49/opening-a-locked-eppendorf-centrifuge/
19:20 < kanzure> http://www.benchfly.com/video/47/opening-a-locked-j2-21/
19:20 < kanzure> http://www.benchfly.com/video/46/opening-a-locked-sorvall-rc5c/
19:20 < kanzure> http://www.benchfly.com/video/45/opening-a-locked-rt6000/
19:21 < kanzure> hm it seems to be lacking the yucky biology protocols
19:21 < kanzure> http://www.benchfly.com/video/30/how-to-mail-dna/
19:22 < yashgaroth> "How to Chunk Worms" FINALLY
19:22 < yashgaroth> looks pretty good though
19:22 < kanzure> jove has more stuff
19:23 < yashgaroth> yeah but it's all super-specific stuff
19:23 < kanzure> http://www.jove.com/video/50192/optogenetic-stimulation-of-escape-behavior-in-drosophila-melanogaster
19:23 < kanzure> http://www.jove.com/video/50104/forebrain-electrophysiological-recording-in-larval-zebrafish
19:24 < yashgaroth> like that
19:24 < kanzure> http://www.jove.com/video/50079/isolation-and-culture-of-mouse-cortical-astrocytes
19:24 < kanzure> heh http://www.jove.com/video/4243/manual-drainage-of-the-zebrafish-embryonic-brain-ventricles
19:25 < yashgaroth> "You do not have access to any JoVE content through your current IP address." whaaaa
19:25 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.jove.com/video/4285/a-visual-description-dissection-cerebral-surface-vasculature
19:25 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/A%20Visual%20Description%20of%20the%20Dissection%20of%20the%20Cerebral%20Surface%20Vasculature%20and%20Associated%20Meninges%20and%20the%20Choroid%20Plexus%20from%20Rat%20Brain.pdf
19:26 < yashgaroth> since when is jove paywalled?!
19:26 < kanzure> always was
19:27 < kanzure> .. right?
19:27 < yashgaroth> I seem to recall viewing full videos, lemme find a non-neuro one and see if it happens again
19:27 < yashgaroth> wow nope it's everything
19:28 < yashgaroth> I seem to recall it was free at some point, way back
19:28 < kanzure> someone should do a youtube poop of these protocol videos
19:29 < yashgaroth> maybe it was back when I had a UW proxy or something, oh well
19:29 < kanzure> and accurately show how enraging they are
19:30 < yashgaroth> I thought youtube poop videos were strictly limited to 90's cartoons based off of video games
19:33 < kanzure> paperbot: http://ecsource.jove.com/CDNSource/4154_Levin_Pathogenesis_050412_F_Web.mov
19:33 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/7006f6fbb24865d33c2fb09592c7b39d.txt
19:34 < kanzure> jove stops playing after 30 seconds through pdx.edu
19:34 < kanzure> but it seems that they did this in flash, and the actual video file is still the full content
19:37 < yashgaroth> I was gonna say, should be possible to extract it
19:37 < kanzure> that text file there is a mov file. quicktime is playing it just fine.
19:39 < yashgaroth> yep, works for me
19:39 < kanzure> these people do not look happy at all
19:40 < yashgaroth> why are they wearing lab coats in the office? that is not osha compliant
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19:41 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.jove.com.proxy.lib.pdx.edu/video/4163/visualization-genetic-manipulation-dendrites-spines-mouse-cerebral
19:41 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Visualization%20and%20Genetic%20Manipulation%20of%20Dendrites%20and%20Spines%20in%20the%20Mouse%20Cerebral%20Cortex%20and%20Hippocampus%20using%20In%20utero%20Electroporation.pdf
19:42 < kanzure> paperbot: http://ecsource.jove.com/CDNSource/4163_Guillemot_071812_F_Web.mov
19:42 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/b16c71f79078e122239477f887d013d7.txt
19:44 < kanzure> "Transfer the animal to the second pad. Begin the surgery when the animal loses the twitching reflex." yessss.
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19:46 < kanzure> "Avoid applying current across the placenta, as this will cause embryo death. Try to electroporate all of the embryos in under 30 minutes."
19:50 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.jove.com.proxy.lib.pdx.edu/video/4031/production-lentiviral-vectors-for-transducing-cells-from-central
19:50 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/404f6b938dc7b584cf87a4b3112ff094.txt
19:51 < kanzure> paperbot: http://ecsource.jove.com/CDNSource/4031_Snider_Astrocytes_051612_F_Web.mov
19:51 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/29abccb2d19b5417dd5889054bbe1084.txt
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19:57 < kanzure> whaat she didn't switch out tips
19:59 < kanzure> i wonder where they found voice talent that can pronounce this shit.
20:03 < kanzure> i need a way to loop all of these videos
20:08 < yashgaroth> academics don't switch out tips without a good reason
20:08 < kanzure> i guess i spent more time working with dna
20:09 < kanzure> you must be paranoid when working with dna, rna and other small molecules because even minor contamination throws off everything.
20:11 < kanzure> "Remove all the fetuses and place them in a sterile dish prepared earlier. Cut the embryos from the amniotic sac using a pair of small scizzors. Place them in a second dish. Wash the embryos at room temperature by gently tilting the dish for 5 to 10 seconds. Transfer the rinsed embryos to another dish. Under a stereomicroscope, extract each rat's brain with a pair of curved forceps. Place about 5 brains in a 60mm dish."
20:11 < yashgaroth> when a single molecule will fuck you over, yeah
20:11 < kanzure> how do you have "about" 5 brains
20:11 < kanzure> http://ecsource.jove.com/CDNSource/3965_Peruzzi_051612_F_Web.mov
20:12 < yashgaroth> add 1 tablespoon of embryonic rat brains, to taste
20:15 < kanzure> "This can be performed in about 2 hours if you perform it properly." ha, ha
20:16 < kanzure> http://ecsource.jove.com/CDNSource/3621_Morrow_Morphogenesis_051412_F_Web.mov
20:19 < kanzure> "using a custom-made hamilton syringe, ..." wait, that's not fair.
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20:38 < kanzure> "a very narrow needle track minimizes brain damage" i'd say.
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21:48 < kanzure> "MBA programs are more brazen about this. It's a regular thing for an MBA professor to reschedule exams to accommodate student travel and social events. Top MBAs are the only educational program (to my knowledge) where professors are virtually required to accommodate students' social calendars."
21:48 < kanzure> "The tuition bubble is about the social connections. Do not be deluded on this. Education is a secondary concern in all that, especially when we're talking about private pre-schools where the quality is ancillary: it's about the "feeder" effect. How did degenerate connection-seeking get conflated with education?"
21:48 < kanzure> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5126714
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22:10 < brownies> have you ever noticed how the only people who are anti-college are the ones who didn't graduate?
22:10 < brownies> where are all the Harvard grads who think college is a bad idea?
22:11 < yashgaroth> ehh I graduated and I'm anti
22:12 < brownies> nonsense. where's your cognitive dissonance!
22:12 < joehot> if you graduated of course youre going to like it
22:12 < yashgaroth> it's a bit different for bio since you can't just drop out and do freelance biology in silicon valley
22:13 < brownies> you could've gotten a job, though
22:13 < brownies> biology has other... obstacles... to freelancing. even for graduates =P
22:13 < yashgaroth> in biology? washing glassware maybe
22:13 < yashgaroth> or filling vials in a cleanroom
22:13 < brownies> ah, so you admit the college education was necessary
22:14 < brownies> you just don't want other people to have it? =P
22:14 < yashgaroth> that's what, like, society says, man
22:14 < kanzure> hehe people use excel for bioinformatics? http://nsaunders.wordpress.com/2012/10/22/gene-name-errors-and-excel-lessons-not-learned/
22:14 < yashgaroth> I'm against the idea that college education is required to learn a subject
22:14 < kanzure> brownies: jojack graduated from harvard and he thinks it's a fucking awful idea
22:14 < brownies> i'd like to hear from him, then
22:14 < kanzure> he doesn't seem to be online at the moment
22:14 < brownies> he thinks going to Harvard is a bad idea?
22:15 < brownies> or he thinks going to Shitty State U is a bad idea?
22:15 < kanzure> he had a lot of friends kill themselves while he was stationed at harvard
22:16 < kanzure> he has an extremely negative view of college.
22:16 < yashgaroth> jesus what
22:16 < brownies> not sure how many qualifies for "a lot" but it is actually relatively common at all top universities
22:16 < kanzure> yes
22:16 < yashgaroth> man I only had one and I thought that was a lot
22:16 < yashgaroth> wait, two
22:16 < kanzure> brownies: i was only mentioning the suicides because you would probably claim that his experience is different from others. but he has other reasons based on reasoning.
22:17 < brownies> yeah i would be genuinely curious to hear them.
22:17 < brownies> in the meantime... yashgaroth: why do you think it's a bad idea?
22:17 < yashgaroth> because all I did in college was get high and read textbooks and papers
22:17 < yashgaroth> 2/3 I could do on my own, now 3/3 with paperbot
22:18 < brownies> i know people who did that.
22:18 < brownies> it seems the simple solution is to not do that.
22:18 < brownies> *not do just that.
22:18 < yashgaroth> how do you mean
22:19 < brownies> well, now that i'm out of college, i look back on it as a rare time that i had to just lead a life dedicated to studying and learning ... a privilege which i'll probably never have again
22:19 < brownies> in theory, it would have been nice to have been told that at the start of the 4 years, rather than realizing it years later.
22:19 < brownies> in practice... i'm not sure the message would've sunk in
22:20 < brownies> but if it had! then people would not just sit around.
22:20 < yashgaroth> true
22:20 < kanzure> how does that require college?
22:20 < kanzure> what??
22:22 < brownies> the professors, labs, and fellow students are the part that college provides
22:22 < brownies> otherwise, yeah, you can totally sit at home, eat pizza, and read textbooks all day. as long as you make rent, nothing's stopping you.
22:23 < kanzure> did you know that professors still exist even if you don't pay tuition?
22:23 < yashgaroth> so college provides connections?
22:23 < kanzure> did you know that you can still go to classes even without tuition?
22:23 < brownies> yes, but what does that prove?
22:23 < brownies> i am aware that all of these things exist
22:23 < kanzure> that nothing you have said supports your thesis
22:23 < brownies> college gives you an environment where you are surrounded by that, with a dedicated feedback loop to help you learn
22:23 < kanzure> you would know this if you went to college... oh wait.
22:24 < brownies> nothing rules out creating this for yourself from scratch
22:25 < brownies> you could farm all your food too, and make your own microchips in your oven, but here you are going to the grocery store and buying laptops off-the-shelf
22:25  * kanzure shrugs
22:25 < kanzure> homecmos seems to be working out okay
22:26 < yashgaroth> let's not slide down the slippery slope too quick here
22:26 < kanzure> yashgaroth: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=657182149541&set=a.657181545751.2225972.9591&type=1&relevant_count=4
22:27 < brownies> kanzure: you will note that my whole thesis is just anti-anti-college ... which just requires college to have a > 0 utility.
22:27 < yashgaroth> omg that profile pic
22:28 < yashgaroth> college undeniably has utility, it's just a question of whether it's worth the cost
22:28 < yashgaroth>  /time
22:30 < kanzure> yashgaroth: https://www.facebook.com/notes/joseph-p-jackson/my-friend-the-killer/471914364559
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22:31 < yashgaroth> "This content is currently unavailable" maybe I should friend him
22:31 < kanzure> jojack is hilarious "PS.  When you have an extensive library of melodic death metal, as I do, there is always a song for every occasion."
22:32 < kanzure> damn none of his facebook notes have a writeup of his views on college
22:34 < kanzure> " I am personally an anomaly, having never used a journal or any kind of formal record for diet and training tracking. Getting ripped is pretty simple--start with 2 100 meter sprints a day, increase over 12-18 wks until you work up to 20-30 intervals in a 24 hr period. When you feel like vomitting, which is most of the time, you know you are doing it right."
22:34 < kanzure> fascinating methods!
22:34 < kanzure> "We pay for convicts to lift weights in the joint damn it, why can't I catch a break?"
22:36 < yashgaroth> 100 meter sprints are a vital part of my patented 'resisting arrest' fitness program
22:36 < yashgaroth> the sprints burn fat, while the tazing and beating stimulate muscle growth
22:37 < yashgaroth> recommended supplements include a good lawyer
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23:54 < kanzure> yashgaroth: don't leave me bro
23:54 < kanzure> http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/jan/26/do-it-yourself-biotech-spread/
23:56 < kanzure> "The website diybio.org lists 16 groups in the United States, including Sunnyvale, known as BioCurious, San Francisco (BioBridge) and Los Angeles (LA BioHackers)."
23:56 < kanzure> pfft my list is more thorough
23:58 < gnusha_> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=5d8ee282 Bryan Bishop: add a diybio article about the san diego group
23:59 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/groups
23:59 < kanzure> by my count there are 45
--- Log closed Mon Jan 28 00:00:43 2013