--- Log opened Mon Feb 04 00:00:39 2013
--- Day changed Mon Feb 04 2013
00:00 < ThomasEgi> hm. there is some pdf buildin 3d stuff. iirc it dates back befor webgl
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00:24 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://www.cell.com/abstract/S0092-8674(12)00776-3
00:24 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/A%20Whole-Cell%20Computational%20Model%20Predicts%20Phenotype%20from%20Genotype.pdf
00:45 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://iospress.metapress.com/content/p61284485326g608/?genre=article&issn=1386-6338&volume=11&issue=3&spage=137
00:45 < paperbot> IndexError: list index out of range (file "/srv/ikiwiki/paperbot/modules/papers.py", line 68, in download)
00:45 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://iospress.metapress.com/content/p61284485326g608/
00:45 < paperbot> ConnectionError: [Errno -2] Name or service not known (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/models.py", line 625, in send)
00:46 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://iospress.metapress.com/content/p61284485326g608/fulltext.pdf
00:46 < paperbot> ConnectionError: [Errno -2] Name or service not known (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/models.py", line 625, in send)
00:46 <@kanzure> what? iospress.metapress.com seems to exist, why is this an error?
00:47 <@kanzure> "Towards a virtual C. elegans: A framework for simulation and visualization of the neuromuscular system in a 3D physical environment"
00:47 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://www.researchgate.net/publication/230746115_Towards_a_virtual_C._elegans_A_framework_for_simulation_and_visualization_of_the_neuromuscular_system_in_a_3D_physical_environment/file/d912f503d6bcfcbe36.pdf
00:47 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/fa0aff0321ed7f0cdebe48e861a6470c.pdf
00:48 <@kanzure> video from paper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uV3yTmUlgo
00:59 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nnano/journal/v8/n1/full/nnano.2012.232.html
00:59 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Biosynthesis%20of%20luminescent%20quantum%20dots%20in%20an%20earthworm.pdf
01:04 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nnano/journal/v7/n5/full/nnano.2012.34.html
01:04 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Real-time%20single-molecule%20imaging%20of%20quantum%20interference.pdf
01:04 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v2/n4/full/ncomms1263.html
01:05 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Quantum%20interference%20of%20large%20organic%20molecules.pdf
01:05 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v12/n10/abs/nn.2384.html
01:05 < paperbot> HTTP 401 unauthorized http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v12/n10/pdf/nn.2384.pdf
01:06 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v15/n10/abs/nn.3203.html
01:06 < paperbot> HTTP 401 unauthorized http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v15/n10/pdf/nn.3203.pdf
01:07 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v15/n5/full/nn.3079.html
01:07 < paperbot> HTTP 401 unauthorized http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v15/n5/pdf/nn.3079.pdf
01:07 <@kanzure> i don't know why i thought 3079 would work if 3203 wouldn't.
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01:55 < archels> Serotonin controls the time scale of reward prediction.
01:55 < archels> Noradrenaline controls the randomness in action selection.
01:55 < archels> Acetylcholine controls what to be learned and what to be neglected.
01:55 < archels> interesting hypotheses by Kenji Doya
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02:06 < nmz787> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-R0_nXpc7I
02:06 < nmz787> .title
02:06 < yoleaux> Homemade Oxygen Plasma Etcher & PDMS to Glass Bonding Test - Black Box Labs - YouTube
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02:10 < nmz787> http://blackboxlabsinc.com/research.html
02:10 < nmz787> Low-Cost Laser Writer for Rapid Prototyping of Micro Structures
02:10 < nmz787> an Abstract Has Been Submitted to the Electrochemical Society:
02:10 < nmz787> Title: "Low Cost UV Laser Direct Write Photolithography System for Rapid Prototyping of Microsystems"  Author: John Waynelovich, Abtin Sepehri, Beejal Mehta, Sam Kassegne, and A. Khosla.
02:11 < nmz787> 'DLP Photolithography System
02:11 < nmz787> a Machine Developed for the Quick Fabrication of MEMS and Microfluidic Devices.
02:11 < nmz787> Targeted to Small Companies and University Labs Who Do not Have the Budget to House a Full Microfabrication Facility. Very Useful for Biological Research. '
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02:26 < nmz787> kanzure: you up
02:27 < nmz787> kanzure: nevermind
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02:30 < nmz787> paperbot: http://ma.ecsdl.org/content/MA2012-02/59/3990.full.pdf
02:30 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/ab123d6d1d582a07530e3c47c9b8055c.pdf
02:30 < nmz787> fenn: Low cost UV laser direct write photolithography
02:30 < nmz787> fenn ^^
02:31 < nmz787> fenn: using linuxCNC
02:32 < nmz787> 1cm/second
02:32 < eleitl> what is linuxCNC?
02:32 < nmz787> A line width of lesss than 2 microns is easily achievable
02:32 < nmz787> prog for controlling CNC steppers or servos from linux
02:32 < eleitl> so no hardware, just software.
02:32 < nmz787> i dunno what files it takes, but it def uses gcode
02:33 < nmz787> it spits out the ttl signals that a standard  'pulse' 'dir' motor controller would take in
02:34 < nmz787> kanzure: $1000, proven, not let's do this
02:35 < nmz787> you can definitely see some wobble in the SDSU logo (Figure 2)
02:35 < nmz787> but i guess that might have been the inkscape font or something
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02:57 < chido> fenn: I did, at first... but I am afraid I wouldn't meet their "tame" standards concerning the message it's supposed to convey, and I still haven't finished the one I'm making for yash
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05:24 < archels> paperbot: http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-3190/6/1/016006/pdf/1748-3190_6_1_016006.pdf
05:24 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/1a296f0d18c5dbd37f63d38a137d2757.pdf
05:25 < archels> .botsnack
05:25 < yoleaux> :D
05:25 < archels> not you!
05:29 < archels> paperbot: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/14689367.2010.515396
05:29 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/245cb9d63eeac6944748c1211a9c77a0.pdf
05:43 < eudoxia> >At Minuteman Missile National Historic Site in South Dakota, the entrance to the underground missile launch control center is sealed by a blast-proof door emblazoned with a painted spoof of Domino's Pizza's red, white, and blue pizza delivery box.[37] The box is labeled "Minuteman II", and hand-lettered text on the door reads "World-wide delivery in 30 minutes or less, or your next one is free", spoofing a former Domin
05:43 < eudoxia> o's Pizza slogan.
05:43 < eudoxia> oh americans <3
05:44 < ArmilusDajjal> yeah good stuff
05:54 < eleitl> of course, the best package deliveries are those already having been made
05:54 < eleitl> you only need to send a few photons their way
06:11 < cpopell> eudoxia
06:11 < eudoxia> hey cpopell
06:11 < cpopell> got laid off, giving this a full time shot
06:12 < eleitl> sorry to hear that
06:12 < eudoxia> i heard, sorry about your job
06:12 < cpopell> Shrug. I have enough contacts to at least make it feasible
06:13 < cpopell> And I really rather enjoy working with businessspeak buzzwords :D
06:13 < eleitl> :)
06:13 < cpopell> We're going to start with the release on 3d printing, probably. We've got some columns lined up, I"m lining up some IRL seminars on advertising/emerging tech interactions.
06:31 < juri_> cpopell: you do much with 3d printing?
06:32 < cpopell> juri_: I do a very esoteric method for graduate work, but we're doing a writeup on the state of the field, appropriate solutions, limited market analysis, etc.
06:33 < cpopell> Anything I do tends to be for rep or for cash.
06:33 < cpopell> brb
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07:18 < juri_> you know, i imagine this is a touchy subject, but.. how many people here have attempted suicide?
07:19 < eudoxia> i bet more than the mean for the rest of society
07:22 < juri_> I was just sitting here, thinking about death (not properly suicidal, but depressed as hell. deadlines past, code to write, material to read, and i've been sick for days, and can't concentrate), and thought i'd ask. for a place filled with such high profile geeks, i think discussing it is much more imporatnt than letting people believe they're alone.
07:32 < cpopell> juri_ : I can't even comprehend the concept for myself, though I'm aware of why people do.
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07:32 < cpopell> Plenty of people to reach out to here, and we're all sensitive to that after aswartz's passing.
07:36 < juri_> i'm just getting sick, and have the pressure of too many projects, and rent past due, with a customer being not-so-nice. not nearly that kind of pressure.
07:37 < juri_> sick-er. doing worse today, than i was yesterday / the day before.
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07:58 < ParahSai1in> kanzure: ah thanks on the jstor
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09:28 < juri_> cpopell: so, what kind of 3d printing do you perform?
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10:04 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/srep/2013/130124/srep01135/full/srep01135.html
10:04 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Terrestrial%20pesticide%20exposure%20of%20amphibians%3A%20An%20underestimated%20cause%20of%20global%20decline%3F.pdf
10:04 < nmz787> juri_: you're not alone, i've learned enough about buddhism that when i get sad i immediately think 'none of this really matters in the end, the average DC bias of the world is 0' or something, but this generally is pretty 'nothing matters' in a really nasty lost-feeling way
10:04 < klafka> hiya
10:05 < nmz787> eudoxia: I've been to the minuteman missile site
10:05 < nmz787> eudoxia: I chuckled at the dominoes pizza joke
10:05 <@kanzure> nmz787: suicidal depression is not about "being sad".
10:06 < nmz787> kanzure: generally that is what sets it off for me, I don't get suicidal when i'm groovin on good vibes
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10:14 < archels> 'the average DC bias of the world is 0'
10:14 < archels> that's an interesting statement :) what do you mean?
10:16 < nmz787> heh
10:16 < nmz787> i think it was hawking i heard once talk about how time might be some elastic oscillation or something
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10:17 < nmz787> so if time is going to reverse, then keep reversing, eventually this and all other possibly realities will form again at some time
10:18 < nmz787> so what I'm doing now is unique, but not impossible to have happened before, and it may happen again
10:18 < nmz787> if matter can't be created nor destroyed...  there really is no direction
10:20 <@kanzure> weeeaak.
10:20 <@kanzure> nmz787: i know that you can do better than that.
10:20 < nmz787> hmm, i guess i could be more concise
10:20 <@kanzure> i also think you could probably come up with an idea that doesn't require multiple world interpretation
10:20 < nmz787> but generally that is kind of my world/universe view
10:20 < nmz787> please tell me if you think its incorrect
10:21 <@kanzure> i think requiring MWI is out-of-scope
10:22 <@kanzure> does my objection make sense?
10:22 < nmz787> MWI?
10:22 <@kanzure> i typed it out above
10:23 <@kanzure> "that doesn't require multiple world interpretation"
10:23 < archels> Laplace? I had no need of that hypothesis?
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10:27 < nmz787> hmm, well MWI out of scope, being sad just sucks
10:28 < nmz787> i generally det distraught thinking life as an emergent property is interesting, but it's literally a fight against the universe (entropy) and it will never end
10:28 < nmz787> but for some reason, since the alternative is nothingness, i guess something is better than nothing
10:28 < nmz787> so i have been able to ride out being pretty sad
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11:05 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://jsonip.com/
11:05 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/5af9f56aac1fd70113bae118cd87f210.txt
11:17 < nmz787> yashgaroth: paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0956566396859318
11:17 < nmz787> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0956566396859318
11:17 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/A%20recirculating-flow%20fluorescent%20oxygen%20sensor.pdf
11:32 <@kanzure> http://ayoungprogrammer.blogspot.ca/2013/01/part-3-making-ocr-for-equations.html
11:32 <@kanzure> .title
11:32 < yoleaux> Life of a young programmer: Equation OCR Tutorial Part 3: Making an OCR for Equations using OpenCV and Tesseract
11:33 <@kanzure> gah source code on pastebin? why would you do that.
11:34 <@kanzure> here's my gist backup, https://gist.github.com/4708992
11:36 < juri_> i need to play with openCV more. its growing, while the project i maintain is beyond stagnant.
11:36 < chris_99> whats the project you maintain
11:37 <@kanzure> i was so disappointed with tesseract when i first used it that it tainted my opinion of it forever
11:37 <@kanzure> hopefully it has improved and this article is accurate
11:37 <@kanzure> equation extraction is really useful
11:37 < chris_99> tesseract's worked pretty well for me before
11:37 <@kanzure> in 2008 i got results like this: http://heybryan.org/shots/2008-03-24-autoscholar-OCR-notgood.png
11:37 < klafka> that was like an eternity ago though
11:38 < chris_99> hmm
11:38 <@kanzure> klafka: true that.
11:38 <@kanzure> klafka: looks active https://code.google.com/p/tesseract-ocr/source/list (last commit was 3 days ago)
11:39 < chris_99> nmz787, what ADC are you using for your project btw?
11:40 < juri_> chris: gnu gift.
11:40 < juri_> the algorithm actually has a lot of legs, that i haven't managed to express through the demos.
11:42 < chris_99> ooh interesting
11:42 < juri_> i've also picked up a paper on 3d gabor filtering, that i really like.
11:43 < juri_> i haven't even managed to implement that.
11:43 < chris_99> since you know image detection-y stuff mind if i ask you about something, basically i've implment this http://www.ipol.im/pub/art/2012/gjmr-lsd/
11:44 < chris_99> to try and detect rectangles
11:44 < chris_99> it works fine at detecting the lines
11:44 < chris_99> but since normally i don't get the full four lines of a rectangle
11:44 < chris_99> i'm having difficult working out what are rectangles
11:45 <@kanzure> what were the methods you mentioned you tried previously?
11:45 < chris_99> Hough transform which didn't work out very well at all
11:45 < chris_99> the LSD method is pretty good at getting most lines though
11:45 <@kanzure> have you considered just drawing random rectangles
11:46 < chris_99> no, since i end up with quite a few lines, and it's also in Java
11:47 < juri_> cute filter.
11:47 < chris_99> so i'm a bit speed constrained
11:48 < juri_> so, what do you need to do, exactly?
11:48 < chris_99> find groups of rectangles based on these lines i extract
11:49 < chris_99> the rectangles are all in line with each, but can be tilted
11:49 < juri_> oh. that's pretty easy.
11:50 < chris_99> what do you recommend i look @
11:51 < juri_> just take the instances where two of your line segments have endpoints within X distance of each other, and the angle of the two segments relative to each other is greater than 88 degrees. sort them based on uper-left, lower-right, uper-right, and lower left, draw new frames based on random pairings of one out of each of the four piles (your prospective rectangle), then use a gabor filter to compare that image to the image you're extracting.
11:51 < juri_> gabor weights will show you which ones match, nd which ones don't.
11:52 < chris_99> oh i've tried filtering based on angles
11:52 < chris_99> that sort of sucked a bit though
11:52 < chris_99> as for some reason some of the line angles seem a bit off
11:53 < chris_99> like not that similar to the opposite line i mean
11:53 < chris_99> i've also tried to find the nearest lines, but sometimes theres erroneous lines in the middle
11:54 < juri_> now, which ones out of this frame do you want?
11:55 < chris_99> yeah, thats a good question, this is why i was wondering if i need a classifier or something
11:55 < chris_99> i need say specific numbers of rectangles like 5 for instance
11:56 < nmz787> chris_99: wolfson wm8253
11:56 < juri_> well, gabor filtering for accuracy against the source image will probably work very well for you.
11:56 < juri_> gabor filters work great as edge-verifiors.
11:56 < chris_99> cheers nmz787
11:57 < chris_99> hmm i'll have a look at those then, cheers
11:57 < juri_> no problem.
11:57 < nmz787> chris_99: http://www.openspectrometer.com/datasheets/WM8253.pdf
11:57 < chris_99> how much does that one cost nmz787
11:58 < juri_> gift's gabor filter uses a 256x256 window to work within, and is written in C (and SSE3 optimized). it should be easy to just take out of the feature extractor, and play with.
11:58 < chris_99> aha, i'll have to port to java then, heh
11:59 < chris_99> nmz787, i'm looking @ http://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/AD7780BRUZ/AD7780BRUZ-ND/2077067
11:59 < juri_> the comparison engine for features however is a pile of C++ i haven't had the willpower to walk into. i fix it when i must.
11:59 < nmz787> chris_99: like $2 or $3 USD
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11:59 < chris_99> aha good price
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12:01 < nmz787> chris_99: the two ADCs are quite different, the one you linked is <15 samples per second, the one i linked is around 6 million
12:01 < chris_99> indeed
12:01 < chris_99> i'm after low sample rate
12:01 < chris_99> high bit depth
12:01 < nmz787> chris_99: also you can do sigma-delta ADC with 1 line on most microcontrollers
12:01 < chris_99> i need 24 bit though
12:01 < nmz787> this seems good for that then
12:01 < ThomasEgi> 24bit??
12:01 < ThomasEgi> over what voltage range?
12:02 < chris_99> 0 to 2.5
12:02 < chris_99> V
12:03 < ThomasEgi> that's 150nV per step? so your noise better is below 75.
12:04 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: won't he just have really awesome resolution of his noise if not?
12:04 < ThomasEgi> what's your bandwith?
12:04 < ThomasEgi> well 75nV is still possible depending on your bandwith and circuit
12:05 < chris_99> slow ThomasEgi very slow, i'm testing out the hall effect dealios
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12:06 < nmz787> chris_99: you still haven't got the rectangle detection working?
12:06 < ThomasEgi> may i ask what you need 24bit resolution for?
12:06 < nmz787> chris_99: can you upload some test images?
12:06 < chris_99> no nmz787, it's been a while since i worked on it though
12:07 < chris_99> 24 bit might be too much for the hall effect, but maybe more useful for useful for the load cell idea
12:09 < juri_> yea, this seems pretty simple, to me.
12:09 < ThomasEgi> 24bit gives you more than 16mio discrete values.
12:09 < chris_99> i need to get a loadcell i guess
12:09 < ThomasEgi> and if you want meaningfull 24 bit messurements you'd have to build your entire aperature pretty well, including the circuit, and the power supply.
12:10 < ThomasEgi> it's for that hygrometer right?
12:10 < chris_99> mm hydrometer but yeah
12:10 < ThomasEgi> hydro. yeah.
12:11 < ThomasEgi> arent they usualy optically. so you'd have like a certain human error when reading it already?
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12:12 < chris_99> yeah they float in a trial jar and you have to read the closest number to the water line
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12:13 < ThomasEgi> and in what intervals are those lines?
12:13 < ThomasEgi> 1mm, 2, 5 maybe?
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12:13 < chris_99> probably 5mm iirc
12:14 < ThomasEgi> on a scale maybe 20 cm long ?
12:14 < chris_99> they sort of vary in scale lengths, one i've got is 8cm
12:14 < ThomasEgi> so you have 8cm, in 5mm increments. that makes 16 values.
12:15 < ThomasEgi> that makes exactly 4 bit resolution for your analog hydrometer
12:15 < ThomasEgi> a regular microcontroller offers you 8bit
12:16 < ThomasEgi> given the same 8cm scale that's equivalent to 0.3 mm lines.
12:17 < chris_99> i'm not sure how you can equate that directly to the hall effect though
12:17 < ThomasEgi> if you have an atmega. you'll even get 10 bits accuracy.
12:18 < chris_99> i've got a pic with 10 bit
12:19 < ThomasEgi> see. even 4x more resolution than the 8bits already
12:19 < ThomasEgi> and another 14 bits would add another 16kx times the resolution you have wtih 10
12:21 < ThomasEgi> if you'd  map that to a linear distance of 8cm.. you'd get 5nm resolution. a distance where you can comfortably count the number of atoms between each value
12:21 < ThomasEgi> 10 bit is probably more than enough already
12:22 < juri_> you know, it suprises me sometimes, how 'large' groups of atoms are. we work in small increments.
12:22 < chris_99> i need to try with a better reference voltage i think
12:23 < heath> kanzure: so we raped the logs here at i11
12:23 < chris_99> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0031320382900036
12:23 < heath> fetched all the video links
12:23 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Clustering%20of%20collinear%20line%20segments%20.pdf
12:23 < heath> ..from this channel
12:24 <@kanzure> heath: loop the videos while coding
12:24 < heath> when i get the sixth monitor, you got it
12:24 < nmz787> heath: what's i11
12:24 < heath> isotope11.com
12:24 < heath> my workplace
12:24 <@kanzure> i assume you took the links from http://gnusha.org/logs/meta/hplusroadmap-2013-02-02-links.url.txt
12:25 < heath> nope
12:25 < heath> but, that's going to be a thing now
12:25 < nmz787> eleitl: can you keep an animal alive  if you scoop it's brain out?
12:25 < nmz787> kanzure: ^
12:25 < juri_> reading all of the good material posted around here is more than a fulltime job.
12:26 <@kanzure> nmz787: yes
12:26 < ThomasEgi> chris_99, if you really need a bit or 2 more resolution, you could add a bit of noise to your signal, and just sample multiple values, and average them out.
12:26 <@kanzure> juri_: no offense, but maybe you should get better at reading?
12:26 < chris_99> ThomasEgi, i figure the problem atm comes from a lack of decent reference voltage
12:26 < heath> kanzure: https://github.com/knewter/probably_worth_watching
12:26 <@kanzure> juri_: personally, i feel that we are at like 10-15% of reading capacity /maybe/
12:26 < juri_> kanzure: only some taken. ;)
12:27 < heath> nmz787: https://github.com/knewter/probably_worth_watching/blob/master/spec/units/samples/irc_log_sample.txt
12:27 < heath> you were used as a sample subject ;)
12:27 <@kanzure> huh? how is that video related?
12:27 < juri_> maybe its because i take things breadth first, and am still trying to read through everything in the papers2 directory. ;)
12:27 < heath> it extracts video links
12:27 <@kanzure> that is a pdf link
12:27 <@kanzure> juri_: keep at it
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12:28 < heath> it was just used for parsing the user
12:28 < juri_> I just closed a bug, i guess its time to read another paper. ;)
12:28 <@kanzure> who is knewter
12:28 < heath> josh
12:28 <@kanzure> why is this a rake app :/
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12:29 <@kanzure> oh wait, sorry
12:29 < heath> http://isotope11.com/about/josh-adams
12:29 < nmz787> heath: i don't get it
12:29 <@kanzure> rake != rack
12:29 <@kanzure> i thought it said rack. rake is fine.
12:30 < nmz787> heath: did the software choose those two lines as 'interesting'?
12:30 <@kanzure> no, that is data for a unit test
12:31 <@kanzure> heath was just saying that you have the Supreme Honor of haivng been selected for the data to be rammed through a unit test.
12:31 <@kanzure> *having
12:32 < nmz787> yay
12:32 < nmz787> i'll get rammed, yay!
12:33 < ThomasEgi> chris_99, do you pre amplify your signal ?
12:33 < chris_99> not atm these are all things i'm planning on trying :)
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12:33 < chris_99> i'm thinking about just getting a decent ADC with a PGA
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12:34 < ThomasEgi> you know... the one you have is probably more than enough. if you properly wire it up.
12:35 < chris_99> it doesn't do gain, afaik
12:35 < ThomasEgi> that's what op-amps are for
12:36 < ThomasEgi> and with an op-amp in front of it. you can also use a bit of analog filtering  to get rid of the higher frequencies you won't really use anyway
12:39 < nmz787> kanzure: you could probably link-dump genome dataset stuff here : [DIYbio] Advice for a computer scientist who doesn't understand biolog
12:40 <@kanzure> he should immediately start reading protocols and the books in http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/books
12:41 < heath> https://gist.github.com/4709576
12:41 < heath> that's 2009
12:42 < heath> https://gist.github.com/raw/4709576/e98359b1777c75ba747842c76435d92a2fa9d0b3/gistfile1.txt is the better link
12:42 <@kanzure> can't you dump this to yaml or json instead of text
12:43 < nmz787> oO heath found this on that link https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&shva=1#inbox
12:43 < nmz787> err
12:43 < nmz787> http://www.sencha.com/blog/the-making-of-fastbook-an-html5-love-story/
12:44 <@kanzure> i wish sencha would release sencha touch
12:44 <@kanzure> i mean, as open source.
12:44 <@kanzure> heath: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/hplusroadmap-youtube-links.txt
12:45 < nmz787> it's reassuring to see that, as I'm looking to implement something like this http://madkingsmusings.blogspot.com/2011/02/crop-and-upload-image-client-side.html
12:47 < heath> kanzure: that's cool
12:47 < heath> but there's also links to blip and vimeo
12:48 <@kanzure> pfft blip
12:48 < heath> :)
12:48 < heath> ~600 vimeo links
12:48 <@kanzure> 2600 youtube links
12:49 < heath> ~100 blip
12:49 <@kanzure> dnatube?
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12:58 <@kanzure> heath: you might also want http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/hplusroadmap-hplusvideo-links.txt which were other recommended videos i was slinging around
12:59 < heath> noted sir
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14:31 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.neuro.28.061604.135703
14:31 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Dendritic%20Computation.pdf
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14:40 < ParahSai1in> what i really would have liked to see is comparison between ntru and a symmetric crypto scheme, if it's so much faster than the other asymmetric ones
14:41 <@kanzure> what are you referring to?
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14:44 < ParahSai1in> ah oops, http://tbuktu.github.com/ntru/
14:44 < ParahSai1in> also, log scale on that kind of graph
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14:45 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://www.jneurosci.org/content/12/9/3651
14:45 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Visual%20projections%20routed%20to%20the%20auditory%20pathway%20in%20ferrets%3A%20receptive%20fields%20of%20visual%20neurons%20in%20primary%20auditory%20cortex.pdf
14:45 <@kanzure> "Following neonatal surgical manipulations, a specific population of retinal ganglion cells is induced to innervate the auditory thalamus and provides visual input to cells in auditory cortex (Sur et al., 1988)."
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16:10 <@kanzure> http://blogs.ch.cam.ac.uk/pmr/2013/02/03/announce-we-ami-can-now-extract-semantic-information-from-scientific-pdfs/
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16:29 < juri_> what's AMI?
16:30 < juri_> and can i get the source code? ;)
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17:07 <@kanzure> "Best way for explain concept of DevOps to CIO: is like TaskRabbit, but power by The Avengers."
17:08 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:12 <@kanzure> "Every advance civilization is progress until is run out of IPv4 address."
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17:31 <@fenn> spectrum data isn't semantic data. what are they smoking
17:32 <@fenn> how about parsing the title instead
17:33 <@kanzure> why is there no legitimately good library for dumping in a pdf and getting out metadata? i don't care if the metadata is incomplete.
17:33 <@kanzure> "grab a selection of text and ask google scholar" is not an okay solution.
17:37 <@kanzure> (this is what zotero does for unmarked pdfs)
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17:40 < cpopell> kanzure, either here or in pm could you tell me what sites paperbot is compatible with?
17:47 <@kanzure> all of them.
17:48 <@kanzure> incompatibility is a bug that should be fixed
17:48 <@kanzure> for a somewhat comprehensive list, see https://github.com/zotero/translators
17:50 -!- klafka [~klafka@204-16-157-18-static.ipnetworksinc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:50 <@kanzure> cpopell: also see https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot
17:51 < cpopell> out of curiosity, how has zotero not gotten in trouble
17:52 <@kanzure> academics love zotero http://zotero.org/
17:52 <@kanzure> at least 200,000 users.
17:52 <@kanzure> more details: https://groups.google.com/group/science-liberation-front/msg/b02bfe7d8e73b9fe
17:53 <@kanzure> "The functionality that Zotero provides isn't substantively different from saving PDFs and typing out citations by hand and falls within the realm of acceptable use. As such, the relationship between Zotero and publishers is hardly adversarial. As far as I am aware, no publisher has ever intentionally broken a Zotero translator, and some publishers have even contributed translators of their own."
17:54 < cpopell> but doesn't it scrape pdfs without needing login data?
17:54 <@kanzure> zotero doesn't handle authentication
17:55 < cpopell> then how's paperbot doing it?
17:56 <@kanzure> you can arrive at that answer yourself with deductive powers, are you sure you want me to tell you?
17:56 < cpopell> I mean, I have a guess.
17:56 <@kanzure> go for it
17:56 < cpopell> using contributed people's login data
17:57 <@kanzure> no, but i would like to add that in the near future
17:57 <@kanzure> eudoxia felt like an idiot once he figured it out; took him >4 hours.
17:57 <@fenn> uff. business, history, and education have more papers on zotero than biology
17:57 <@kanzure> what?
17:57 <@kanzure> zotero is a firefox extension
17:58 < cpopell> Hm, is there some sort of way to ignore paywalls?
17:58 <@fenn> oh sorry, it's tracking people, not papers
17:58 <@kanzure> cpopell: elaborate
17:58 < cpopell> I remember you looking at ways to disable them maybe a year ago
17:59 < cpopell> to skip login, etc.
17:59 <@kanzure> fenn: you know the answer, right?
17:59 <@kanzure> because i was surprised by how long it took eudoxia to figure it out
17:59 <@fenn> yes you just need the universal crypto-key algorithm described in the movie sneakers
18:00 <@kanzure> i gave eudoxia two hints
18:00 <@kanzure> 1) it's *probably* in a watermark in those pdfs by now, but i'm not actually sure because i haven't looked
18:00 <@kanzure> 2) it's not in the code
18:00 <@fenn> it?
18:00 <@kanzure> i had to give him #2 because he kept trying to see if paperbot.git had the answer
18:00 <@kanzure> fenn: the answer to cpopell's query.
18:00 <@fenn> oh, some ezproxy bug i bet
18:00 <@kanzure> i wish
18:00 <@kanzure> that's on my todo list
18:01 <@fenn> or you could sign up somewhere as a student with 0 classes
18:01 <@kanzure> ezproxy is not involved
18:01 <@kanzure> (yet)
18:02 < cpopell> !paperbot http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=4828244&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D4828244
18:02 <@kanzure> without the !
18:02 <@fenn> is the answer because it's running on <redacted educational institution>'s network?
18:02 < cpopell> paperbot http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=4828244&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D4828244
18:02 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/bd253bfa9ff9c45100d93a68969a7d65.txt
18:02 < cpopell> :(
18:03 <@kanzure> no that was good
18:03 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/4816218/4828222/04828244.pdf?arnumber=4828244
18:03 <@kanzure> you linked to the login.jsp page
18:03 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/abc1772da1e121989b1b4954ae57b747.txt
18:03 <@kanzure> ok this one is bad :)
18:03 <@fenn> ieee has always been a pain in the ass because they have so many journals and most places don't subscribe to all of them
18:03 < cpopell> paperbot http://apl.aip.org/resource/1/applab/v90/i8/p081905_s1?isAuthorized=no
18:03 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/37a5e3cb13e920812db5f498dd1be861.txt
18:04 <@kanzure> isAuthorized=no seems like something you would want to remove
18:04 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://link.aip.org/link/?APPLAB/90/081905/1
18:04 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/7f1988585620f4d53fb0714242410f0f.txt
18:04 < cpopell> paperbot http://apl.aip.org/resource/1/applab/v90/i8/p081905_s1
18:04 < paperbot> error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/100f612b9a71c951786ddb8adf603344.txt
18:04 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://scitation.aip.org/getpdf/servlet/GetPDFServlet?filetype=pdf&id=APPLAB000090000008081905000001&idtype=cvips&doi=10.1063/1.2645078&prog=norma
18:05 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/a7132c0d62d7c00e92e8e0553f480556.pdf
18:05 <@kanzure> there you go
18:05 <@kanzure> "Electrohydrodynamic printing of silver nanoparticles by using a focused
18:05 <@kanzure> nanocolloid jet"
18:05 < cpopell> no watermark :|
18:05 <@kanzure> that's a good thing
18:05 < cpopell> yeah, I have access to it but I wanted to see how paperbot worked with one of these nastier to access papers
18:05 <@kanzure> also, no *visible* watermark
18:06 <@fenn> how do you know there's no watermark?
18:06 <@kanzure> i said no visible watermark
18:06 <@kanzure> by visible inspection of the pdf
18:06 <@fenn> cpopell: did you diff the files?
18:06 <@kanzure> visible watermarks are usually just text pasted on the page by their pdf server
18:06 <@kanzure> yeah if you have a copy please upload it somewhere so we can compare the checksums
18:07 <@kanzure> oh wait there is a watermark on the bottom of each page
18:07 <@kanzure> "Downloaded 04 Feb 2013 to 0.0.0.0. Redistribution subject to AIP license or copyright; see http://apl.aip.org/about/rights_and_permissions"
18:07 <@fenn> odd
18:08 <@kanzure> afaik nobody is watermarking images with hidden messages at this point
18:08 <@fenn> anyway automated watermark addition can be automatically subtracted
18:08 <@kanzure> i haven't written that library yet
18:08 <@kanzure> here's my summary of the watermark removal situation:
18:08 <@kanzure> https://groups.google.com/group/science-liberation-front/browse_thread/thread/c68964cf55d8f6fa
18:09 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: can you sense changes in resistance of metal thickness in the range of microns?
18:09 <@kanzure> fenn: if you have some ideas on a good python/pdf library i would be happy to get started on that watermark removal library
18:09 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: like if you wanted to tell how much material was left between the tip of a drill bit
18:09 <@kanzure> fenn: but every time i look i just don't find anything i like or can use to do this
18:10 < ThomasEgi> nmz787, whait wat?
18:10 <@kanzure> i think the solution will probably end up involving some pdf/malware detection bullshit (and the malware signature will be text)
18:10 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: I'm thinking you might be able to sense resistance through the drill bit and (metal) material
18:10 < ThomasEgi> nmz787, if your metal is only 10 microns thinck, and you remove one, you'll definetly be able to meassure this
18:10 < ThomasEgi> but that won't work for drilling at all
18:10 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: why wouldnt it work for drilling?
18:10 < ThomasEgi> resistance during drilling is like riding a roallercoaster..
18:11 < nmz787> but the resistance is gonna be depended on how much material is left between the bottom of the drilled area, and the backside that would be punched through
18:11 < ThomasEgi> nope.
18:12 < cpopell> Okay guys--3d printing: FDM, SLS, SLA (of whatever type), E-Jet
18:12 <@fenn> the current just goes out into the bulk around the hole
18:12 < cpopell> am I missing anything major?
18:12 < ThomasEgi> fenn, correct.
18:12 < ThomasEgi> the current will go whatever path it can take
18:12 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: any ideas on how i could auto-stop drilling in molybdenum at about 15 microns remaining
18:12 < nmz787> ?
18:12 <@kanzure> cpopell: pfft you shouldn't be using your friends to do your job for you, unless you want to pay us.
18:13 < cpopell> :P
18:13 < ThomasEgi> nmz787, having a good mechanics. calibrate it. cnc move it no only 15 microns above the end
18:13 < cpopell> nah I didn't miss anything except for laminated and fuck that shit
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18:14 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: how about the current through a FIB beam?
18:14 <@kanzure> cpopell: for the record, you are missing lots.
18:14 < cpopell> category wise?
18:14 < cpopell> bleh, I guess there's bead bed
18:14 <@fenn> object (uv cured inkjet), selective binding inhibitors, zcorp's plaster+dye+binder
18:14 < cpopell> I through DMLS, EBM, SHS, and SLS in the same package
18:14 < cpopell> *throw
18:14 < ThomasEgi> nmz787, as i said. if you mechanically drill. that's not really going to work.
18:15 <@fenn> objet*
18:15 < cpopell> SLA, DLP are same package
18:15 <@kanzure> fenn: you should send him an invoice (he's getting paid for this list, iirc)
18:15 <@fenn> meh
18:15 < cpopell> kanzure: Not getting paid
18:15 < ThomasEgi> nmz787, mechanical drilling is like.. a giant mess. metal pieces flying all over the place, drill bits carving into the surface, rough edges, coolant liquid, vibrations, noise.
18:15 < cpopell> That implies it's a commission
18:16 <@fenn> anyway "3d printing" isnt really a concise technical definition
18:16 < cpopell> 'additive manufacturing'
18:16 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: with the FIB the beam is 10nm, so if the backside (flat) was attached to an electrode, and the FIB beam was the other electrode....
18:17 < nmz787> You the current wouldn't go into the bulk, as that would be longer route
18:17 < ThomasEgi> and how exactly are you going to drill with a fib-beam-electrode in your hole?
18:18 <@fenn> robocasting, that reel to reel electronic component method, probably some kind of wire-welding-like method
18:18 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: but even with mechanical drilling, the amount of circuit path length decreases as long as you go further down, if the opposite electrode is on the backside... or maybe you could use two electrodes and get some differential
18:19 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: sry, backstory is these two comapnies produce pinholes
18:19 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: they start by drilling molyb for some X amt of time
18:19 < ThomasEgi> nmz787, all i can tell you. is that during mechanical drilling, due to the motion, the contact resistance will varry a lot.
18:19 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: due to inconsistencies in their molyb stock material thickness, sometimes it's 15microns thick in the center at the end
18:19 <@fenn> kanzure: i was going to say something like eleitl's pdftk command
18:20 < nmz787> Thomas42: sometimes its 75... etc, much thicker on the order of 15nm or so chunks
18:20 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: ^
18:20 <@kanzure> fenn: pdftk is really useful for splitting out pages, but so far i don't see how it can be used to extract out individual objects.
18:21 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: so then they put it in a FIB, and finish the pinhol to like a few microns wide
18:21 < nmz787> Thorbinator:  but if it's too thick the FIB can't get through
18:21 < nmz787> damnit
18:21 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: ^^
18:21 <@kanzure> fenn: actually, maybe one of the pdf2html things will have the answer.
18:21 < ThomasEgi> yeah but then they "drill" the last part with the fib
18:21 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: and lots of time and money are wasted
18:21 < ThomasEgi> and don't use it for messurement
18:22 < nmz787> Sure but why can't you monitor it like current control to motors?
18:23 < nmz787> just turn down the power, add a high-resistance/impedance on the backside, and put an ADC on that?
18:23 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: I could have totally just botched all electronics concepts
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18:24 < ThomasEgi> nmz787, well in a highly simplified version that might work
18:24 < ThomasEgi> but in practice you'd probably have to do a lot of math to get somewhat correct values out of it
18:24 < nmz787> they have a wire coming out of the FIB already which is supposed to be for some sensing
18:24 < juri_> does anyone know where i can find a graph of 'how mushy' sluminium gets at what temperatures?
18:24 < nmz787> they havent used that connection tho
18:25 < juri_> I'm trying to print aluminium in a vessel made.. of aluminum.
18:25 < ThomasEgi> nmz787, you better ask someone with more experiences in FIB stuff here. or with microsystems in general
18:25 < juri_> this sounds like it could end badly.
18:25 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: I'm thinking if you just correlate readings with pieces that FIB OK, you can use a ballpark reading to tell if you should even try to FIB
18:25 < ThomasEgi> juri_, if you cool the vessel.. might work
18:26 < juri_> thomas: makes sense to me, i just want to know what temperature i need to keep it at, to keep it from imploding at 30 tor.
18:26 < nmz787> juri_: you need to remove the oxygen while processing
18:27 < nmz787> juri_: i've melted soda cans on a gas stove before
18:27 < juri_> nmz: yepyep.
18:27 < nmz787> but they like to oxidize
18:27 <@kanzure> fenn: looks relevant http://eternal-todo.com/blog/extract-streams-shellcode-peepdf
18:27 <@kanzure> from https://code.google.com/p/peepdf/
18:27 <@kanzure> http://blog.zeltser.com/post/6780160077/peepdf-malicious-pdf-analysis
18:27 < ThomasEgi> juri_, if it has to withstand a lot of force. you probably are best of cooling it well below the melting point. or switch to a different material entirely
18:28 < juri_> thomas: tons of cooling sounds like a good idea. switching materials is going to be way too expensive.
18:29 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: so if you discard that it's a FIB, if you knew the lowest voltage and current produced by a wire, how much resistance i would need to sense X nanovolts change... where X is the voltage drop in 1 micron of bulk molybdenum etc...
18:29 < nmz787> lemme try to find that bulk values
18:29 < ThomasEgi> juri_, i can't tell you exactly. you'd probably have to run an FEM simulation to get the temperature gradients inside the vessel, and see if the cold areas are enough to withstand the pressure
18:30 < juri_> hmm. i may try running it while in a block of ice, then.
18:30 < nmz787> juri_: you might look at using aluminum oxide ceramic as the vessel
18:30 < juri_> at least then, the impending implosion would be youtube-worthy! :P
18:31 < ThomasEgi> nmz787, you don't really have  awire there. but more like a plate. and electricity will flow throgh it according to the electric field.
18:31 < ThomasEgi> which will depend on your hole diameter, tip shape of the drill, remaining substrat thickness, the contact area on both sides etc.
18:32 < ThomasEgi> juri_, how about coating the aluminum with something more temperature resistant?
18:32 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: you're saying plate because...
18:32 < ThomasEgi> nmz787, or a block
18:32 < ThomasEgi> because the remaining part is definetly not a wire.
18:33 < juri_> thomas: copper shielding, with water cooling?
18:33 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: you're saying the working piece is just in the way of the main circuit?
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18:33 < nmz787> getting in the way of ions
18:33 < ThomasEgi> juri_, i was more thinking abou something that'? thermally insulating. like silicones or so
18:33 < juri_> mm. that makes sense.
18:33 < ThomasEgi> nmz787, i am saying that the workpiece is not a wire
18:33 < nmz787> juri_: how big is the piece to be produced?
18:34 < ThomasEgi> nmz787, and current flows along the electric field.
18:34 < ThomasEgi> given you allow it to.
18:34 < eudoxia> just dropping by to prepare cpopell for how silly he will feel once he figures out how paperbot works
18:34 < eudoxia> so, be prepared
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18:34 < juri_> nmz787: i should be able to produce 6"x6"x14".
18:34 < cpopell> :(
18:34 < ThomasEgi> juri_, that's huge?
18:34 < ThomasEgi> why the 30 tor?
18:35 < juri_> oh. the chamber is much bigger.
18:35 <@kanzure> fenn: it works, peepdf.py has a "search" command that dumps a list of stream ids.
18:35 < juri_> that's the potential size of parts.
18:35 < ThomasEgi> anything that wolud prevent you from printing it atmospheric pressure?
18:35 < juri_> sure. its aluminum.
18:35 < ThomasEgi> so?
18:35 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: .... hrmm
18:35 < juri_> i'm trying to avoid the dependency on strange gasses.
18:36 < ThomasEgi> what's strange about inert gasses?
18:36 < juri_> availability?
18:37 < ThomasEgi> where do you live to have no acess to inert gas?
18:37 < juri_> i'm not some high priced researcher. no budget.
18:37 < juri_> the only reason i could afford to build my prusa is because i built half of it out of scrap. this will be the same.
18:38 < ThomasEgi> having such a big vacuum vessel made from scrap is quite problematic if you ask me
18:39 < ThomasEgi> and you probably want to say goodbye to whatever you put into it befor starting
18:39 < juri_> oh, the vessel itsself is just going to be smart-reuse.
18:39 < juri_> certainly.
18:40 < juri_> I'm thinking of placing two pressure canning vessels open-side to open-side.
18:40 < nmz787> juri_: what are you making?
18:40 < juri_> they're reasonably available (at local thrift stores for $50..)
18:40 < ThomasEgi> i still have that feeling that filling your vessel with N2 would be easier than to deal with all the pressure
18:40 < juri_> then i'm going to build a mutant version of a rostock 3d printer, place it inside..
18:41 < juri_> pull the air out, and draw an aluminum object on an aluminum plate, through fusion welding.
18:41 < juri_> mmm.
18:41 < ThomasEgi> isn't co2 inert enough to handle aluminum?
18:42 < juri_> where do i get N2 in a college town, for dirt cheap?
18:42 <@kanzure> fenn: the downside is that this library does not seem to be very portable.
18:42 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: do you know of any dyes that are magetic field sensitive?
18:42 < juri_> isn't Co2 something that has oxygen in it?
18:42 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: maybe add a drop to the hole, put a magnet on the back
18:42 < juri_> pardon me, i am NO chemist, but i thought the idea was to avoid free oxygen in the environment.
18:42 < ThomasEgi> nmz787, magnetochromatic? hm.. something like liquid cristals maybe.
18:42 < nmz787> blah, no thats crap
18:43 < ThomasEgi> nmz787, i only know them from experimentation kits
18:43 < nmz787> hmm
18:45 < ThomasEgi> why the dye tho?
18:45 <@kanzure> blah why do people release terrible python things
18:46 < ThomasEgi> if anything. i'd put the manet into the hole. and use a couple of hall sensors on the back to get the angle of the magnetic field lines
18:46 <@kanzure> "fuck packaging, let's just throw all of that away"
18:47 <@kanzure> "reusable code? fuck that shit."
18:48 <@kanzure> https://code.google.com/p/peepdf/source/browse/trunk/PDFCore.py
18:51 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: how small of a magnet could you use?
18:51 < ThomasEgi> nmz787, how bout one that fits into the hole?
18:52 < ThomasEgi> i am just wildly guessing here about what might work
18:52 < ThomasEgi> what i can tell you is.. meassuring it won't be quite as easy
18:53 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: well i'm guessing that the drill bit is at least 10-50 times larger than the thickness to be measuredd
18:54 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, i've seen worse.. not much worse. but worse
18:57 <@kanzure> this also no tests
19:04 < ThomasEgi> nmz787, that resistance messuring idea will be tricky. as the resistance of your remaining substrat should range somewhere around 80μOhm. the cables to it are ways higher, contact resistance probably too, not including thermal noise in this messurement
19:06 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: how about pipetting some amount of this kind of stuff into the hole http://www.staples.com/VersaInk-Magnetic-Ink-Universal-Refill-System-Boxed-CD/product_410397
19:06 < nmz787> and sensing the back with some hall sensor/sensor array
19:07 < ThomasEgi> i don't see how this would help you
19:07 < nmz787> wouldn't the hall effect sensor reading be dependent on how much material was blocking the magenetic field
19:08 < nmz787> (unless the magnetic ink doesn't emit a field)
19:08 < nmz787> or if the magnetic ink only gets effected by a magnetic field (is that called paramagnetic?)  maybe pulse an electromagnet on the backside, then sense the collapse of the field
19:09 < ThomasEgi> your substrat is paramagnetic, the ink, if anything, would be paramagnetic too.
19:10 < ThomasEgi> as i said. my best idea is to use good mechanics, and a CNC controlled messuring tool.
19:11 < ThomasEgi> ultrasonic would be an option if it wouldn't be such a small distance/precision
19:15 < nmz787> interferometry would almost work, except i dont know how you'd accurately measure the width of the uncut section, since it can vary within the amount that you need to leave in the hole
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19:16 < nmz787> ThomasEgi: is there a readymade/almost-there CNC Z axis kit?
19:16 < ThomasEgi> there are industrial messuring tools
19:16 < ThomasEgi> not cheap
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19:24 <@kanzure> fenn: okay i got it.
19:24 <@kanzure> now i need a library name. i was thinking dewatermarked or dewatermarker.
19:25 < cpopell> dehydrater
19:26 <@kanzure> i prefer something not obscure and sort of obvious
19:26 <@kanzure> it's better to name something that people would come up with on their own
19:30 <@kanzure> haha.. pdflaundromat.
19:32 < cpopell> pdfbleach
19:33 <@kanzure> that will attract manga freaks
19:34 < cpopell> pdfcleaner?
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19:49 <@kanzure> pdfparanoia
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19:56 < ThomasEgi> nmz787, depending on the thickness of your workpiece. you may simply use a micrometer screw with a custom tip
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20:08 <@fenn> sorry i should have repeated the command for clarity, it was "pdftk uncompress |
20:08 <@fenn> sed | pdftk compress"
20:09 <@kanzure> fenn: that doesn't remove the watermarks in http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/a7132c0d62d7c00e92e8e0553f480556.pdf
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22:19 <@kanzure> "There is thus no guarantee that the generated filename will have any nice properties, such as not requiring quoting when passed to external commands via os.popen()"
22:19 <@kanzure> well that's dumb.
22:21 <@kanzure> streety: https://github.com/streety/Full-text-visualisation
22:21 <@kanzure> streety: you seem to have mastered pdfminer. is there any way to force pdfminer to parse a pdf from a string, unicode or StringIO object?
22:22 <@kanzure> theoretically things should not care if it's a file handler or a StringIO but somehow pdfminer manages to do it
22:25 <@kanzure> ah wait maybe i wasn't seek()'d properly.
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22:26 < cpopell> yashgaroth : We're going to stay with Finfer or Barone
22:27 < yashgaroth> aight if you're driving I'm down
22:27 < cpopell> Oh shit, I thought you had a car :D
22:27 < cpopell> :O
22:27 < yashgaroth> no I do, but I figured we'd carpool
22:27 < yashgaroth> I can drive up to vista
22:27 < yashgaroth> unless you don't have an oh wait I'm coming to pick you up huh
22:27 < cpopell> I'll cover the gas fees and do the driving, but I don't have a car in vista bro.
22:27 < cpopell> :P
22:28 < yashgaroth> ah right okay that makes sense; aight fine then
22:28 < cpopell> lol
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22:35 < nmz787> kanzure: did you see this upverter.com/hackathons/yc-hackathon-2013/
22:35 < nmz787> kanzure: wanna join me and two friends to work on openSpectrometer?
22:35 < nmz787> kanzure: you can help standardize protocols1
22:35 < nmz787> !
22:36 < yashgaroth> oh hey nmz787 that o2 sensor looks very interesting, lemme give it a read
22:38 < nmz787> the one i posted to diybio
22:38 < nmz787> the rubidium shit?
22:38 < yashgaroth> yea
22:38 < nmz787> cool
22:38 < nmz787> yeah there was a post on there that you should answer
22:38 < nmz787> regarding e coli cleanup
22:39 < nmz787> kanzure: plots spectrometer for $110k
22:39 < nmz787> kanzure: and openspectrometer didn't get more than like $3k
22:39 < nmz787> wtf is that
22:39 <@kanzure> plots whowhat?
22:40 < yashgaroth> oh this post about endotoxin removal?
22:40 < nmz787> kanzure: www.kickstarter.com/projects/jywarren/public-lab-diy-spectrometry-kit
22:40 <@kanzure> nmz787: kickstarter is a fine art; the littlest, minorest details will render a kickstarter campaign a total dud.
22:40 < nmz787> 'hey here's a cardboard tube' $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
22:40 <@kanzure> this is why i don't recommend kickstarter
22:41 < klafka> what about indiegogo?
22:41 <@kanzure> also kickstarter users are really critical of videos, so you have to pay to get them produced these days
22:41 < klafka> yeah that's kind of annoying
22:41 < nmz787> kanzure: so can you make it to sf on the 23rd?
22:42 <@kanzure> hmmm
22:43 < nmz787> kanzure: i think they want it to be a day of 'learn to use upverter'
22:43 <@kanzure> yes
22:43 < nmz787> so if that's worth a plane ticket :/
22:43 < nmz787> i figure it might be an avenue for synthesizer connections
22:44 < nmz787> i also have some sequencing experiments planned for when i get my first microchannels made
22:44 < nmz787> which could be novel/cheap
22:47 <@kanzure> a hardware hackathon doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
22:48 <@kanzure> basically they are going to be in ycombinator's offices (or something)
22:48 <@kanzure> so you don't have any tools except lots of laptops
22:49 <@kanzure> and then you only have 6 hours of coding whatever it is you're coding
22:49 <@kanzure> "Start piecing together the block diagram for your idea and designing the building blocks of your idea (similar to which APIs and libraries you’d use in a software hackathon)."
22:49 <@kanzure> that's highly disingenous.. except for the most basic of schematics.
22:50 < nmz787> kanzure: yeah, i figure i'm going just to network, and get the openSpectrometer board laid out in one format or upverter
22:50 < nmz787> or both
22:50 <@kanzure> "Android-style "Intents" for my living room" ugh
22:51 < klafka> wtf?
22:51 <@kanzure> people who go to hackathons just to network are the worst..
22:51 < klafka> haha
22:51 < klafka> i've been trying to get a hackathon together to make dancesafe mobile apps
22:51 < klafka> kanzure: make me some mobile apps
22:51 <@kanzure> klafka: pay me
22:51 < klafka> i'll pay you a thousand doll hairs
22:51 < nmz787> paperbot: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=4871911&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D4871911
22:51 < klafka> it's not nothing
22:51 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/cb5db780d93534ed24bfd7baa73fbdf8.txt
22:51 <@kanzure> login.jsp is not really supported
22:52 < klafka> i've got an idea 'its like instagram but for drugs'
22:52 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpls/abs_all.jsp?arnumber=4871911
22:52 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/d101ddbdafb0a9e144d14aa6c57fa30f.txt
22:52 < nmz787> kanzure: it wont work
22:52 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/4816218/4871864/04871911.pdf?arnumber=4871911
22:53 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/f57d1c5a6a63aa39442766965db694fc.txt
22:53 <@kanzure> guess not
22:54 < nmz787> google knows about it
22:54 < nmz787> "Three-dimensional nanolithography using proton beam writing" filetype:pdf
22:55 < nmz787> http://www.ciba.nus.edu.sg/publications/files/pbw/pbw2003_2.pdf
22:55 <@kanzure> http://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=18167726915902797395&hl=en&as_sdt=0,44
22:55 < nmz787> not on archive.org
22:55 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://apl.aip.org/resource/1/applab/v83/i8/p1629_s1
22:55 < paperbot> error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/6b1950f15c8de1efe14a85289e612602.txt
22:55 <@kanzure> oh well.
22:56 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://scitation.aip.org/getpdf/servlet/GetPDFServlet?filetype=pdf&id=APPLAB000083000008001629000001&idtype=cvips&doi=10.1063/1.1604468&prog=norma
22:56 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/9613ef81b6460b0fd8f3614b2b820395.pdf
22:56 <@kanzure> where there's a way there's a way :)
22:56 < nmz787> if you google it you can see they have cached an image of the first page at least
22:56 <@kanzure> that last one worked
22:57 < nmz787> so it looks like SU-8 doesn't play well with FIB milling
22:57 <@kanzure> anyway if you can think of something that can be prototyped in 7 hours that would make an investor blow his load, i think the hackathon is worth going to
22:58 < nmz787> kanzure: prob not, but it will get me and friends together to get the board done
22:58 < nmz787> but i guess you might be able to initiate the polymerization in uncured SU-8 with FIB
22:59 < nmz787> so i can prob expose with microlith, then transfer to FIB while still fresh and add some nano shit
22:59 <@kanzure> you could probably do some handwaving with nanoengineer
22:59 <@kanzure> "look! i have nanoengineer rendering in webgl from pdb files!"
22:59 <@kanzure> (which is not actually impressive)
22:59 < klafka> haha
22:59 <@kanzure> (which should take less than 60 minutes)
23:02 < nmz787> huh?
23:03 < nmz787> i'm not familiar with the codebase really
23:03 < nmz787> when i worked on it i just did find replace lol
23:03 <@kanzure> nothing about what i just said would actually involve the nanoengineer codebase
23:03 <@kanzure> which is why it is handwaving
23:03 < nmz787> paperbot: http://iopscience.iop.org/0960-1317/12/4/303
23:03 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/SU-8%20thick%20photoresist%20processing%20as%20a%20functional%20material%20for%20MEMS%20applications.pdf
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23:10 < nmz787> paperbot: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org.proxy.lib.pdx.edu/xpl/articleDetails.jsp?tp=&arnumber=4300186&contentType=Conference+Publications&openedRefinements%3D*%26filter%3DAND(AND(AND(NOT(4283010803))%2CAND(NOT(4283010803)))%2CAND(NOT(4283010803)))%26pageNumber%3D7%26rowsPerPage%3D50%26queryText%3D(lab+on+a+chip)
23:10 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/cb6aa50444a3fd624734096f4bade85d.txt
23:10 < nmz787> http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=4300186&tag=1
23:11 < nmz787> paperbot: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=4300186&tag=1
23:11 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/377f62fb967200c298b06ef845e87ca1.txt
23:29 < nmz787> kanzure: public shame!
23:35 <@kanzure> :(
23:35 <@kanzure> i fail at the really simple tasks, like buying toys for friends.
23:42  * nmz787 has a friend :D
23:58 -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap
--- Log closed Tue Feb 05 00:00:51 2013