--- Log opened Tue Feb 12 00:00:41 2013
--- Day changed Tue Feb 12 2013
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01:11 < strangewarp> I liked the Glitch Feminist Manifesto, if only because the claim that glitches are little orgasms was fascinating
01:19 < archels> what is 'glitch' in this context?
01:25 < archels> "When the computer freezes mid-conversation, when the video buffers and refuses to progress, these moments are a new mode of foreplay, something that needs to be acknowledged not as a fetish, but as new possibly for play within sexual routine."
01:25 < archels> o-kay...
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01:37 <@kanzure> archels: welcome to the weird part of the internet
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08:56 < ParahSailin> why would one want to get beta carotene into e coli cell?
08:57 < chris_99> why not put it in yeast instead if thats possible
08:58 < ParahSailin> no, i mean i dont understand the intent at all
08:58 < ParahSailin> why would you want to put beta carotene in yeast
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09:00 < chris_99> no idea, at least it'd then be edible though i guess :) to make a beer with more vitamins in? ;)
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09:27 < ThomasEgi> beta carotene? isnt that the orange stuff?. making orange beer?
09:33 < chris_99> oh cool it is orange :) didn't realise that
09:36 < chris_99> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1932764/
09:36 < chris_99> doesn't sound easy though
09:39 < nmz787> archels: this glitch foreplay crazy, yesterday my computer totally froze, like completely... i gave it a minute to unfreeze, saw the hard drive light blinking once in a while... but it was glitching too hard on me and i had to hard reset
09:39 < nmz787> ...
09:39 < nmz787> yeah, glitches don't really seem to turn me on at all
09:42 < chris_99> say for instance i wanted to make glowing beer, what would be the easiest way to do it, could i use electroporation
09:43 < nmz787> sure
09:43 < nmz787> electroporation is great
09:43 < nmz787> i'm a strong advocate
09:43 < nmz787> glowing beer is tough tho
09:43 < nmz787> there's a lot of engineering that's prob needed
09:44 < nmz787> since apparently the known glowGenes require oxygen, and beer is generally more anoxic
09:44 < chris_99> some yeast is actually aerobic if that helps?
09:47 < nmz787> chris_99: they can grow aerobically sure
09:47 < nmz787> but they won't ferment alcohol
09:47 < chris_99> Brettanomyces does iirc
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09:50 <@kanzure> "patent avoidance resources" http://www.tinaja.com/pasamp1.shtml
09:54 <@kanzure> nmz787: "yeah, glitches don't really seem to turn me on at all" "sure, electroporation is great"
09:55 < nmz787> "Another use for cinnamaldehyde is as an antimicrobial. Researchers from the University of Illinois at Chicago (who were funded by the Wm. Wrigley Jr. Company) have found that cinnamic aldehyde, when used in Big Red, prevented oral bacterial growth by more than 50%.[9] It is especially effective against bacteria living at the back of the tongue, reducing anaerobic bacteria populations by about 43%."
09:55 < nmz787> kanzure: but electroporation isn't a glitch
09:56 < nmz787> i guess those0 sentences are still weird
09:56 < nmz787> "Cinnamaldehyde is also used as a fungicide.[5] Proven effective on over 40 different crops, cinnamaldehyde is typically applied to the root systems of plants. Its low toxicity and well-known properties make it ideal for agriculture. Cinnamaldehyde is an effective insecticide, and its scent is also known to repel animals, such as cats and dogs.[5] It has recently been recognized as a very effective insecticide for mosquito larvae.[6] As little as 29 
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09:58 < nmz787> "Coumarin is often found in artificial vanilla substitutes, despite having been banned as a food additive in numerous countries since the mid-20th century. Coumarin was banned as a food additive in the United States in 1954, largely because of hepatotoxicity results in rodents."
09:58 < nmz787> huh, well I guess no more imitation vanilla extract
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10:06 < nmz787> "I very strongly feel those "patent it yourself" books are a
10:06 < nmz787> big disservice to most individuals and small scale startups.
10:06 < nmz787> Because they encourage wasting your time and money only
10:06 < nmz787> to get a totally useless result."
10:06 < nmz787> "your costs of getting a patent end up utterly negligible
10:06 < nmz787> compared to your costs of defending a patent"
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10:11 < nmz787> so it seems these reagent companies can deliver hazardous materials to residential addressess just fine
10:11 < nmz787> this company accidentally sent stuff to my home address even though I gave them the lab address
10:17 < nmz787> kanzure: just checking but is this filed http://publicintelligence.net/ufouo-dhs-lawrence-livermore-unconventional-biological-laboratory-guide/
10:17 < nmz787> pdf: http://info.publicintelligence.net/DHSunconventionalbiolabs.pdf
10:17 < nmz787> date: 2009-07-24
10:18 < nmz787> paperbot http://info.publicintelligence.net/DHSunconventionalbiolabs.pdf
10:19 <@paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/7d471dde57f83432846ef4537b4dbf85.pdf
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10:25 < nmz787> ahh yes, this is the post that stands out in my mind https://groups.google.com/d/msg/diybio/VeUyo6Bh-Xo/NrHOXLJDIB4J
10:25 < nmz787> "If a company sells any
10:25 < nmz787> restricted items (chemicals, cultures, whatever), they are likely to
10:25 < nmz787> never ship anything to a residence, even if all you want are some
10:25 < nmz787> plastic tube racks.  In some cases (cough, VWR, cough), any attempt
10:25 < nmz787> for a hobbyist to even set up an account results in a visit from law
10:25 < nmz787> enforcement with a seach warrant.  Same with Invitrogen. "
10:26 < nmz787> bwah hah hah, seems this person doesn't know how to work the system
10:31 < nmz787> "45% Off New Year Sale!" "Potassium cyanide" "Minimum Order: $50"
10:33 <@kanzure> you mean they were lying?
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10:44 < nmz787> or just wrong, or they set off some alarms by some other action???
10:53 < juri_> sounds like a theory i'm not testing.
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11:17 <@kanzure> "perl problems" http://xkcd.com/1171/
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11:41 < nmz787> juri_: it's no theory, it's plain incorrect
11:41 < BioGuy> Kanzure I found a place near me called American Scientific ( amersci.com ), they were happy to sell chemical reagents to me, order something if they didn't usually sell it, and repackage if I wanted something smaller than stock quantities.
11:42 < nmz787> BioGuy: cool
11:42 < nmz787> BioGuy: busy?
11:42 < nmz787> i just got off the phone with edmund optics.... man this stuff is expensive
11:42 < BioGuy> Ya need to head down to the mall 205 area
11:42 < nmz787> mall?
11:43 < nmz787> i haven't been to one of those in a while
11:45 < BioGuy> Ya, off of I-205 and stark street
11:46 < nmz787> you're over near the airport?
11:46 < nmz787> i thought you were in beaverton
11:47 < BioGuy> I am, gotta drive out there.
11:48 < BioGuy> You ever go to sleep :-P
11:48 < nmz787> yeah
11:48 < nmz787> got up at 8 feelin pretty good
11:52 < BioGuy> At least you get back on track easily. Once I mess with my sleep schedule its like a whole month before I can wake up at a normal time again
11:54 < BioGuy> Well gotta run, that article you linked to on publicintelligence.net is pretty interesting. I'll have to read it over more when I get back.
11:54 < BioGuy> I was never sure if it was just policy of most companies not to ship supplies to home addresses or a law.
11:57 < nmz787> kanzure: am I a Formall educated expert, or an Accredited professional?
11:57 < nmz787> Formally*
11:57 < nmz787> BioGuy: that article isn't really related to shipping stuff
11:58 < nmz787> BioGuy: I just happened to get some sequencing kits and acrylamide gel delivered to my front door this morning
11:58 < nmz787> BioGuy: and thought that person's statement was super ironic
11:58 < nmz787> BioGuy: I've never had any trouble with companies, and have received thousands of dollars in free reagents
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12:01 < BioGuy> I remember seeing a few companies online that (I think) sold reagents to home addresses so I think it may just be the policy of most suppliers. Maybe the logic is something like, "Why take $10 worth of risk for potentially $5 profit"
12:01 < BioGuy> I tried ordering something from Carolina a while back, but they said they would only sell to academic institutions or businesses.
12:02 < nmz787> BioGuy: maybe I just know how to talk to people
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12:06 < BioGuy> I guess...
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12:11 < BioGuy> So far I havent had any problems with local suppliers where I can actually walk in and talk to people. Just have ran into barriers online.
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12:18 <@kanzure> nmz787: you are a formally accredited expert, in fact, full expert accreditation for everyone!
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14:14 < nmz787> kanzure: these deskgen.com guy's got 7.5 mil from somewhere to do desktop dna synth http://www.linkedin.com/in/rileyodoyle
14:16 <@kanzure> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.deskgen.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F02%2FDeskGenExecutiveSummaryUK05Feb.pdf&oq=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.deskgen.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F02%2FDeskGenExecutiveSummaryUK05Feb.pdf&aqs=chrome.0.57j58.1045&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
14:18 <@kanzure> i wonder how they got the 1.1 million genes number
14:19 <@kanzure> ryan bethencourt seems to know him
14:19 < nmz787> i wonder what they're doing, yeah, is he fishing for ideas?
14:20 <@kanzure> wow they are pennypenchers
14:20 <@kanzure> https://angel.co/desktop-genetics#recruiting
14:20 <@kanzure> $35k for "lead software engineer"
14:20 < nmz787> "because its recipes minimize theuse of highly error-prone (and expensive) synthetic oligonucleotides (the greatestsource of non-user error in gene assembly)"
14:21 < nmz787> kanzure: 4^10 is just shy of 1.1 million
14:21 < nmz787> so they may just be using 10mer library
14:21 <@kanzure> i dunno if you remember the survey they were emailing around
14:21 <@kanzure> https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/plasmids
14:21 < nmz787> maybe we can sue them
14:21 <@kanzure> why would you sue them? on what grounds?
14:22 < klafka> do you guys know that surveymonkey has like 400 million in VC funding
14:22 <@kanzure> sounds familiar
14:22 < klafka> idk it's still pretty crazy to me
14:22 < nmz787> kanzure: we came up with that library and nicking enzyme idea... just a thought
14:23 <@kanzure> nothing here indicates that they are using a nicking enzyme
14:23 <@kanzure> and we did not invent the concept of dna libraries -_-
14:23 <@kanzure> furthermore, we don't have a patent on that concept either.
14:24 < nmz787> kanzure: just a thought
14:24 < nmz787> it was supposed to be a fun thought
14:24 < nmz787> their progress to date and exit strategy is interesting
14:25 < nmz787> well planned out
14:25 <@kanzure> their progress is just some software and fundraising
14:25 < nmz787> by the sound of it
14:25 < nmz787> yeah that's kinda weird
14:25 <@kanzure> "make an exit to a specific company" is not "well planned out" dude
14:25 < nmz787> it's not clear when the autoclone software becomes useful
14:25 <@kanzure> that's "wishful thinking". anybody can say "and then google will buy us for $100 million."
14:25 < nmz787> i mean their estimates
14:26 < nmz787> it doesn't say a specific company
14:28 < nmz787> spelling error on this page jumps out http://www.deskgen.com/get-involved/
14:28 < nmz787> 'Enrol'
14:45 <@kanzure> "ynthBots communicate with each other and computers over a network, sending and receiving DNA data like a fax machine so that collaborators will always have the latest version of your DNA."
14:45 <@kanzure> comparing your product to a fax machine seems sort of archaic..
14:46 <@kanzure> anyway, as far as i can tell, they don't have a prototype.
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14:51 < ParahSailin> lol pay someone, living in london no less, 35k for lead X
14:51 <@kanzure> for on-site work.
14:51 <@kanzure> london is notorious for underpaying their programmers
14:51 <@kanzure> but this is a big stretch.
14:51 < ParahSailin> or is that 0-10% implying equity?
14:52 <@kanzure> yes that implies negotiable equity
14:52 < ParahSailin> still, london is fucking expensive to live in
14:52 < ParahSailin> i'd be losing money with that pretax salary there
14:52 <@kanzure> i think salaries in the UK might be described in post-tax terms, but i'm not sure.
14:53 <@kanzure> still a bad deal though. if they think paying someone $35k is good enough for their startup then they must not have a good sense of value.
14:58 < klafka> fuck that
14:58 < klafka> 35k pounds?
15:09 <@kanzure> nmz787: hah, do you remember this? https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/diybio/nMGVN_xve-E
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15:19 <@kanzure> nmz787: where is your evidence that they raised $7.5M?
15:20 <@kanzure> they got $7,500 from a business plan competition, and another $10-15k from an incubator.
15:20 < klafka> that's like...nothing
15:20 <@kanzure> yes. that's not $7.5M.
15:33 <@kanzure> "The British company is currently beta testing the software and expects to be able to launch the SynthBot for construction by 2015."
15:33 <@kanzure> from http://mobihealthnews.com/19957/healthbox-london-holds-demo-day-irish-accelerator-healthxl-launches/
15:35 <@kanzure> what does that even mean o_o you don't "launch" a product by building the first prototype..
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16:36 < nmz787_> Kanzure you're right it was 7500 not 6
16:36 < nmz787_> Not 7.5 mil
16:36 < nmz787_> *
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18:49 < curtiss> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cloned_mice_with_different_DNA_methylation.png
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19:55 <@kanzure> this seems unreasonably expensive:
19:55 <@kanzure> http://www.ebay.com/itm/BAUM-Humanware-Brailliant-32-portable-bluetooth-USB-Braille-display-/170933827402
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19:59 < phm> Curious. Why are you looking at it?
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20:21 < sylph_mako_origi> It could be useful for a wearable. Possibly.
20:22 < sylph_mako_origi> If you explicitly wanted to avoid having to use a HMD.
20:22 < superkuh> I have a friend that managed to get one of those humanware setups secondhand; would've been $4k normally.
20:22 <@kanzure> how much did he pay for his secondhand unit?
20:22 < superkuh> I think it was free.
20:23 < superkuh> But they're pretty much blind.
20:24 <@kanzure> theoretically the reason it's so expensive is because there's not enough blind people that would buy one, so the price has to be great enough to subsidize whatever sillyheaded practices the business making them is conducting.
20:24 <@kanzure> i can't imagine the individual braille display units being expensive themselves
20:30 < superkuh> Apparently the old models like the one in the ebay link have horrible bluetooth implementations. The new $4k-$6k ones work properly.
20:37 <@kanzure> why are there so few characters provided?
20:37 <@kanzure> why not 100+ braille characters at a time?
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21:57 <@kanzure> secret prior art http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5211559
22:23 <@kanzure> was FEI the original OEM of electron microscopes?
22:28 <@kanzure> nope, nevermind.
22:31 <@kanzure> "Theodor Svedberg invented the analytical ultracentrifuge in 1925,[1] and won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1926 for his research on colloids and proteins using the ultracentrifuge."
22:31 <@kanzure> "Ernst Ruska at the University of Berlin, along with Max Knoll, combined these characteristics and built the first transmission electron microscope (TEM) in 1931, for which Ruska was awarded the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1986."
22:32 <@kanzure>  i think there's an "equipment bias" in nobel prizes :P
22:33 <@kanzure> " Instead, what Bardeen, Brattain, and Shockley invented in 1947 was the first bipolar point-contact transistor.[6] In acknowledgement of this accomplishment, Shockley, Bardeen, and Brattain were jointly awarded the 1956 Nobel Prize in Physics "for their researches on semiconductors and their discovery of the transistor effect."[11]"
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23:13 <@kanzure> "SciQuest.com(TM), Inc. (Nasdaq: SQST), a leading business-to-business e-marketplace for the global scientific products industry, announced today the launch of a cutting-edge laboratory equipment leasing program via the SciQuest.com Auctions site."
23:14 <@kanzure> "Under the terms of this three year partnership, Vista Capital will contribute the resources to pre-approve SciQuest.com Auction users for leases of up to $75,000 with no financial information required."
23:14 <@kanzure> "The dollar value of the line is embedded into the software so that each company registrant can see the remaining line of credit in real-time."
23:15 <@kanzure> http://www.thefreelibrary.com/SciQuest.com+Partners+with+Vista+Capital+Corporation+to+Create...-a060057276
23:15 <@kanzure> reading that because of this,
23:15 <@kanzure> http://iubio.bio.indiana.edu:7131/bionet/mm/cellbiol/1998-June/008901.html
23:15 <@kanzure> (this company was acquired by sciquest i think)
23:18 <@kanzure> pfft they were an ibm poster-child ftp://ftp.support.lotus.com/software/solutions/pdfs/g325-6614-01.pdf
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23:38 <@kanzure> "synthetic genomics' main line of business right now is licensing out gibson assembly"
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23:55 <@kanzure> "In 1995, upon Andre Marion retirement, Mike Hunkapiller became President of PE Applied Biosystems Division which sold its 30,000th thermal cycler."
--- Log closed Wed Feb 13 00:00:59 2013