--- Log opened Thu Feb 28 00:00:13 2013
00:02 < nmz787> kanzure: what was the netflix through wine thing?
00:04 <@kanzure> something about firefox and silverlight
00:05 < rigel> something about your mom
00:05 <@kanzure> right
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03:00 < klafka> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F11577935_7
03:00 < paperbot> error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/eefa538f3257afae3f936582476eac2c.txt
03:02 < klafka> paperbot: http://www.springerlink.com/index/QQ35WT68L6774261.pdf
03:02 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/f711681d70717b350c59ab267ab0fba.txt
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11:12 < chris_99> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21604005
11:12 < chris_99> .title
11:12 < yoleaux> BBC News - One rat brain 'talks' to another using electronic link
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11:37 <@kanzure> boooring
11:41 < chris_99> care to share something interesting
11:57 < archels> the primary somatosensory cortex might be a good place for a neural interface in humans, too
12:01 < archels> Lastly, it is important to stress that the topology of BTBI does not
12:01 < archels> need to be restricted to one encoder and one decoder subjects.
12:01 < archels> Instead, we have already proposed that, in theory, channel accuracy
12:01 < archels> can be increased if instead of a dyad a whole grid of multiple reciprocally interconnected brains are employed. Such a computing structure could define the first example of an organic computer capable of
12:01 < archels> solving heuristic problems that would be deemed non-computable
12:01 < archels> by a general Turing-machine.
12:01 < archels> that gives a whole different meaning to the term "cloud computing"
12:07 <@kanzure> if there's a paper, i'll read it, but otherwise i think i'll categorically refuse to visit that link on the account of news.
12:07 < archels> the article links the paper, that makes it okay in my book :)
12:08 <@kanzure> wouldn't know, the credibility of news articles is already so low that i didn't even bother to check.
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13:03 < abetusk> as soon as they say they can solve problems that can't be solved by a Turing machine, you know they're full of bullshit
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14:05 < Sk__> Hello everyone.
14:07 < wizrobe> What the hell is the point of this  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21604005
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14:08 <@kanzure> Sk__: hi
14:10 < Sk__> How's it going?
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14:13 <@kanzure> uh, why do you ask?
14:16 < Sk__> Curiosity? Friendliness? I'd be happy to cut the small talk if you'd prefer to move to something more intellectual/creative/worthwhile.
14:17 <@kanzure> why are you here?
14:18 < Sk__> Because transhumanism is a major interest... I'd like to find some more likeminded people.
14:18 < Sk__> Also, creating a website that touches on h+, so being involved in this little segment of the community can't hurt.
14:18 < Sk__> Why are YOU here?
14:18 <@kanzure> what website/why?
14:19 <@kanzure> i don't know why i am here. mostly because these are the most productive transhumanists i've ever worked with.
14:21 < Sk__> It's still in dev. I'd give the link, but I'm just now setting up the prelaunch stuff and I don't really want to advertise what I've done so far until I get the public page up for the prelaunch. Give me an hour or two and I'll link you.  Because I'd like a tighter knit community, a place for in-depth discussion... I'd also like to organize some in-person meets (and maybe SL too, haha.) I've just noticed there's not much in the way
14:22 < Sk__> around the web... Most places seem pretty defunct at this point.
14:22 < Sk__> That's good to know. Makes me think I'm in the right place then. Care to tell me about some things that have been going on?
14:22 <@fenn> maybe all the old transhumanists got bored talking about the same things for 30 years, and now it's up to you young people
14:23 < Sk__> Makes sense, fenn
14:23 <@kanzure> fuck you for making yet another silo
14:23 <@kanzure> "tighter knit community".. you don't do this by creating a new community with zero people.
14:23 <@kanzure> and Second Life is really just awful
14:24 < Sk__> It is, but it has its merits.
14:24 <@kanzure> it's antisocial, incompatible with lots of other protocols, etc. i don't see any advantages to it.
14:24 <@kanzure> it's almost as bad as openqwaq/openquack
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14:25 < klafka> Sk__: so are you planning on doing stuff or creating a space to talk about doing stuff
14:25 < Sk__> I'm not going to argue with you. If you don't like it, don't join. It's not the sole subject, it's intended to show these ideas to new people who've not necessarily heard/done/known much on the subject as well as a place for the 'more advanced' do-ers.
14:25 < ksull72487> guys currently looking for away to oc a compaq v6000 amd processor nvidia 6150 chipset
14:26 < ksull72487> softmods dont work
14:26 <@fenn> does anyone use facial expression recognition or posture detection in a virtual social environment yet?
14:26 < ksull72487> its an hp essentially most i was able to do with the oem bios was add slic 2.1 tables
14:26 < Sk__> And there is a niche of people who DO have good ideas and DO want a community but do not want to devote the resources to create it because they're working on other things.
14:26 <@kanzure> Sk__: maybe instead of trying to change other people by creating more websites, you should try to change what in yourself you don't like by doing things.
14:27 < Sk__> fenn, I don't think so. I was just thinking of that the other day after realizing Apple (and perhaps Intel? Don't recall) hold virtual meetings in SL.
14:27 < Sk__> I still do things.
14:27 <@kanzure> meetings are a bad idea anyway
14:27 < Sk__> This is one of the things I'm doing.
14:27 <@kanzure> yes but you're doing it so that other things can be done, i assume
14:27 <@kanzure> i'm saying this step is unnecessary and useless
14:27 < Sk__> And I'm perfectly happy with it. Movements don't grow in seclusion as they would with everchanging ideas.
14:27 <@fenn> it just seems sorta weird to construct this huge environment when all people do is look at floating rectangles showing webcam video
14:28 < klafka> also fenn fetish porn
14:28 < klafka> don't forget fetish porn
14:28 <@kanzure> "movements"
14:28 <@fenn> nah, the fetish porn part makes sense
14:28 < Sk__> If it's not a movement, pray tell explain what it is.
14:28 < klafka> fenn come on you've read snow crash! that's how it's done in the metaverse
14:28 < klafka> geeez
14:28 < Sk__> Mmm, fetish porn.
14:29 <@fenn> wut? snow crash had a several page rant about facial expressions and how they were crucial for the development of the metaverse
14:29 <@kanzure> Sk__: so you will create your website, and developers/people who do things will be magically attracted to it, and finally all the transhumanist projects will fall into place and happen..?
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14:30 <@kanzure> what's the plan exactly
14:30 <@kanzure> btw, we get a lot of people in here that want to splinter the transhumanist communities even further.
14:30 < klafka> I think Sk__ - there is a bit of argumentativeness around this because it's something that people commonly come in here and say they are doing
14:30 <@kanzure> so this is like the umpteenth time i've had this conversation
14:30 <@kanzure> yes
14:30 < klafka> and it really to lots of people begs the question, why?
14:30 < klafka> look if people want to be part of the transhumanist movement - tackle transhumanist problems
14:31 < klafka> those aren't setting up message boards. those are problems of biotech, computer science, materials science, physics, math, etc...
14:31 < klafka> engineering, etc...
14:31 <@kanzure> guyz1 i have dis awes0me new f0rum phpbb8 u should join me u can be a mod
14:32 < klafka> if you want to further the transhumanist movement and spur conversation DO SOMETHING that transhumanists will talk about
14:32 <@kanzure> who cares if transhumanists talk about it or not
14:32 <@kanzure> what does that matter
14:32 < klafka> the things that they talk about the transhumanist movement is a subset of the things that are important to the 'ideals' or whatever of transhumanism
14:34 < Sk__> I do agree with that klafka. But I won't be faulted for introducing some minds who wouldn't otherwise have known or taken interest, it's a segment. It's a method for funding to do more with the ideas I have. And because new ideas and new minds breed new ideas and new minds...
14:34 < Sk__> And if I am enjoying something that I care about while increasing funds to DO more, then I think that's perfectly fine.
14:35 < Sk__> I work with what I have, but it can't hurt.
14:35 <@kanzure> yes it can hurt
14:35 <@kanzure> case in point, all the redditors that keep flowing in here.
14:35 <@kanzure> what about getting a job, and then using that money to do things?
14:36 < Sk__> Well, I'm not a redditor. And I am trying to DO things.
14:36 < Sk__> It's not like I'm going to post this channel all over the site and be like HEYYYY GOOOO TALK.
14:36 < Sk__> I'm not an idiot. I am trying to DO things. Directly related.
14:36 < Sk__> But this is a segment I do care about and I'm not going to just let it go.
14:37 <@kanzure> why don't you do them, then? i don't understand this. setting up a forum is not very helpful.
14:37 < Sk__> If this frees up my time and funds me to 'do' more, then it is a win.
14:37 < Sk__> I am.
14:37 < Sk__> It's not going to be just a bloody forum.
14:37 <@kanzure>  i think you are making up a fake dichotomy of "doing/not doing" and i challenge you to back up that dichotomy as a fact
14:37 <@kanzure> or as a reasonable concept, i mean.
14:39 < Sk__> By doing I mean directly contributing to transhumanism vs say, starting a community *of not only transhumanist but of people I find have the mindset for creativity and productivity*
14:39 < Sk__> It is a false dichotomy
14:39 < Sk__> Because in my intention it is all related.
14:40 <@kanzure> are you hoping that some percent of these people will be more productive than you, or something? is that what it is?
14:40 < Sk__> If finding motivation and immersion here frees up my time so as to not work a dead-end job or be tied down by a location while funding resources to create something of more worth, then I'm satisfied.
14:40 < Sk__> Not really.
14:40 <@kanzure> if you have a dead-end job, you should just quit it.
14:41 < Sk__> I don't have a dead end job.
14:41 < Sk__> But I'm creating my own way in the way that best makes sense to me. But I do still have life to tend to, a spouse to feed, bills to pay.
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14:42 <@kanzure> what are you skilled in or interested in learning how to do?
14:42 <@kanzure> or what is your background
14:42 < Sk__> I'm sorry you don't see the merit in that. I do.
14:42 < eudoxia> hello Sk__
14:42 < eudoxia> I'm going to have to side with kanzure on this
14:42 < Sk__> Hello, eudoxia.
14:42 < eudoxia> (i moderated http://transhumani.com/forum/portal.php and wrote http://wiki.transhumani.com/index.php?title=Main_Page and it was largely a failure)
14:43 < eudoxia> right now there's a new forum <http://thetranshumanist.com/forum/> that might die off soon, who knows
14:43 < Sk__> That has so much more merit to me than what has so far been said. Why did they fail?
14:43 <@kanzure> haha more merit
14:43 <@kanzure> because fuck thinking about things
14:44 < Sk__> I am thinking kanzure. I'm trying to listen to your side and take what makes sense into my own paradigm.
14:44 <@kanzure> "let's just ignore all of this experimental data, and call kanzure bullshit" i think i hate you
14:44 < eudoxia> I think, from what I've observed here, that the best thing you can do to work towards transhumanism is just pick something and work with it. and then, when you have something to show, you talk about it here or on one of the mailing lists or whatever
14:44 < eudoxia> no point in creating the "new and definitive h+ community"
14:45 < Sk__> The site is not just about transhumanism... I don't think that point has gotten across.
14:45 <@kanzure> Sk__: what is your background in skills/jobs/things?
14:45 <@fenn> i actually like the topical forums such as longecity
14:45 <@kanzure> i dunno how to explain longecity
14:46 <@fenn> nobody can even agree on what "transhumanism" is so of course it's going to be all over the map and never get traction
14:46 <@fenn> but focus on a specific topic and it can make sense
14:46 < Sk__> That is not my end. This is a job. Funding. Freedom to some degree to learn and do what does deeply interest me... All I said was it *touched* on it.
14:46 <@fenn> longecity started out looking at various supplements for life extension/longevity and then later on attracted a nootropics interest
14:46 <@kanzure> longecity has been doing some small research projects on their own, but i'm not sure how it happened.
14:47 <@kanzure> it has a weird crowdfunding angle too
14:47 <@fenn> because the existing research was inadequate
14:47 < eudoxia> Sk__, when he gets on, ask cpopell about his experience re:h+ communities
14:47 <@kanzure> yes, but i mean, longecity had people that were willing to do the work
14:47 <@fenn> who is cpopell anyway? he just sort of appeared (from what i saw)
14:47 <@kanzure> Stee|
14:47 < Sk__> A bit of physics, electronics, some biology... I'm learning every day. I've put a lot of focus on the mind and what it can do with hypnosis.
14:47 <@kanzure> hypnosis you say
14:48 <@kanzure> what about your job?
14:48 < eudoxia> fenn: grep 'cpopell\|Stee|\|Steel\|Stieru_Ridir' *.log
14:48 < Sk__> And that's part of the reason I came here. Because if there's a good resource, anything to learn... I'd love to hear about it. I thought this would be a great place to find that.
14:49 <@kanzure> Sk__: i can't offer you anything without knowing your background or what you've dealt with
14:49 < eudoxia> tl;dr he started an h+ forum and slowly the post count dropped and it was overrun by spam because i'm a category 5 retard
14:49 < Sk__> Me?
14:49 <@kanzure> are you a lab technician? dsp engineer? construction worker?
14:50 < Sk__> No. I'm not.
14:50 <@kanzure> eudoxia: you have to install akismet and other shit these days
14:50 <@kanzure> Sk__: are you going to answer my question?
14:50 < eudoxia> kanzure: yeah but he didn't have time for that shit and i didn't have access so i don't even have a citations plugin for mediawiki
14:50 < Sk__> Any information at all you can give would be helpful.
14:51 <@kanzure> i am not going to just give you all the information. i need to know what you work on.
14:51 <@kanzure> you are very difficult to talk with.
14:52 <@fenn> Sk__: he just wants to know what skills you have
14:52 < Sk__> I'm sorry you find it so. I am not currently employed as I'm a military spouse who just moved across the country.
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14:52 < Sk__> I probably don't have many skills you wouldn't scoff at.
14:52 <@kanzure> not true.
14:54 <@kanzure> as of yet, there is no way to download all information and knowledge about different aspects of transhumanism and making this stuff happen. so the conversations have to be constrained by your skills or which skills you are working on acquiring or specific projects. this is why i keep asking. but you seem to be avoiding the issue.
14:55 < Sk__> I'm not that far down this rabbit hole. I just know that I do care and I do want to make a contribution. I can work with electronics. I am good with minds. I am best at conveying ideas (not that it shows here, hah) concepts that are complex, with less complexity.. am a very fast learner and I eat information like food. I am always looking for new resources and things to learn. I am an autodidact, no formal education or skills.... 
14:55 <@kanzure> i don't really care about formal anything, wasn't really my question.
14:55 <@kanzure> so you have experience with microelectronics? or what..
14:56 < Sk__> A little. Again, I'm still learning.
14:56 <@kanzure> have you done anything with microcontrollers?
14:57 <@fenn> there's a huge need for practical low-cost biosensors
14:57 < Sk__> I am interested in doing modifications now... ie, finger magnets. I realize that is not very complex... but *now* implants of a little more complexity would be somethng I'm interested in.
14:57 < Sk__> There is?
14:57 < Sk__> See. That's the sort of thing I'm looking for
14:58 <@kanzure> finger magnets aren't too useful. you can get the same effect by gluing a magnet to your finger.
14:58 < Sk__> Yeah, I realize...
14:58 < klafka> oh can you?
14:58 < Sk__> I was just using that conceptually
14:58 < klafka> hmm  i wanna try that then
14:58 <@kanzure> klafka: sort of. it's less pronounced.
14:58 < klafka> aah
14:59 < Sk__> Of *now* mods.
14:59 < klafka> also think of all the positive energy you're aligning
14:59 < Sk__> But again, with more complexity.
14:59 < klafka> so kanzure what's your takeaway on google glass
14:59 <@kanzure> it's just not a useful mod.. it gets media attention because of the body shock community.
14:59 < klafka> badass eyetap or gimmick flavor of the month
14:59 < Sk__> It's nifty, but not useful.
14:59 <@kanzure> klafka: no conclusions yet. their api seems a little suspicious (something about all apps being hosted on the cloud). so no local software? that worries me.
14:59 < jrayhawk> paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1432-1033.1994.tb19004.x/pdf
15:00 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/d93db375cdaf05e23287d3685dbc697e.txt
15:00 < chris_99> why's it not useful Sk__
15:00 < jrayhawk> paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1111/j.1432-1033.1994.tb19004.x/asset/j.1432-1033.1994.tb19004.x.pdf?v=1&t=hdqimqyg&s=14ea7aadb99cb369ab184e29875b1aafd75dcc77
15:00 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/f995605864ba0775c7236566ca2a8b2a.pdf
15:00 <@kanzure> chris_99: because you can get a direct reading from a magnetometer, or you can experience the same thing by gluing a magnet to your finger.
15:00 <@fenn> sure, there's all the quantified self stuff (heart rate variability, blood pressure, accelerometers, wireless glucose monitors) and then there's more existential awareness things like extending sensory perception or brain monitoring technologies (EEG, infrared spectroscopy, doppler ultrasound,) but i'm not compiling a comprehensive list here
15:00 < chris_99> oh i thought we were talking about Glass
15:00 <@kanzure> paperbot: fix wiley :|
15:00 < chris_99> not the magnets
15:01 <@fenn> it would be really nice to have a reliable low noise EMG sensor that one could use to do ensemble encoding ("typing" without a keyboard)
15:01 < jrayhawk> a paper wherein the wheat antagonizes vitamin d
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15:02 < eudoxia> no local apps?
15:02 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: any ideas about moving broken things out of papers2/paperbot/, or moving papers into separate folders and using symlinks, without breaking previous links?
15:02 < eudoxia> so i can't even run bc without waiting ten minutes because HURR WIRELESS THE CLOUD
15:02 <@kanzure> eudoxia: not sure yet, but i read somewhere that it would be "like Google Calendar". of course, nobody has an sdk yet so who the fuck knows.
15:02 <@fenn> you can do hard links for much the same effect
15:03 <@kanzure> well i don't want to leave paperbot/ piling up with papers forever
15:03 <@kanzure> and ideally things should be categorized
15:03 <@kanzure> but if i move papers (like even after paperbot retrieves them) the links are broken immediately
15:03 <@fenn> then delete them after n days
15:03 <@kanzure> eww.
15:03 <@fenn> then dont delete them
15:03 <@kanzure> hard links are a good idea.
15:04 <@fenn> eudoxia: did you know ubuntu has made an OS for ARM phones?
15:04 <@kanzure> debian already has arm binaries
15:04 < eudoxia> fenn: i think i remember hearing about it
15:05 <@fenn> or were you talking about forums
15:05 < eudoxia> ?
15:05 <@kanzure> he was talking about google glass
15:05 <@fenn> debian has arm binaries, but there's no "phone experience"
15:05 <@fenn> oh i see
15:06 <@fenn> well, personally i'm not too excited about glass because all i ever wanted was a display device that was made for wearable computing and didnt cost $5k
15:06 <@fenn> if it's a hermetically sealed pill that has no extensibility, it prolly won't do what i want
15:06 < eudoxia> why not have some kind of "computer wallet" that does the processing and sends it to the glasses through some wireless link
15:07 <@kanzure> i think google glass might be pairing with your phone
15:07 < eudoxia> oh well that would certainly be more practical
15:07 < eudoxia> "computer wallet" i should be gassed
15:08 <@fenn> digital coinpurse
15:08 <@kanzure> Sk__: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq
15:08 <@kanzure> Sk__: i am only hard on you because i care
15:10 < jrayhawk> google glass would mean i wouldn't need to remember people's names
15:10 <@fenn> does it do facial recognition? they're pitifully short on details
15:10 < klafka> no
15:10 < eudoxia> i sure as fuck hope so
15:10 <@fenn> klafka: do you know this for sure?
15:10 < klafka> fenn there are quite a bit of details now
15:10 <@kanzure> there are a lot of patents and companies built around face recognition lirbaries
15:10 <@kanzure> i think it's going to be a gold rush in that area, if it takes off.
15:10 < eudoxia> i can remember names, and i can remember faces, but i can't map those two to save my life
15:10 <@kanzure> and then lots of lawsuits.
15:10 < klafka> well i think it may be later
15:11 <@kanzure> *libraries
15:11 <@kanzure> i think that the place to be for that gold rush is going to be something like a service on top of ec2 for running their video stream parsers
15:11 < klafka> fenn did you check out - http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/22/4013406/i-used-google-glass-its-the-future-with-monthly-updates
15:11 <@fenn> klafka: i mean does "version 1 google glass explorer hardware" do image processing
15:11 <@kanzure> because people who are going to want to do face recognition algorithms aren't going to want to have to setup servers to parse x264 or whatever video they are transmitting
15:12 < klafka> like you would have to do video / image processing in the cloud
15:12 < klafka> and htat's potentailly a lot of data transmission
15:12 <@kanzure> that's the place to be, because everyone and their mom is going to be recognizing faces/moods/other crap.
15:12 <@fenn> you'd have to do face _detection_ on the device, but probably will want to do _recognition_ on a server, since there's a lot of data to dig through
15:12 < klafka> detection on a device currently seems a bit out of scope though
15:13 <@kanzure> opencv seems to detection just fine?
15:13 < klafka> for the amount of battery life and processing power
15:13 < klafka> yeah but remember we're talking about probably a fairly weak android based cellphone basically
15:13 < jrayhawk> Weak?
15:13 <@kanzure> oh well, battery backpack. just kidding. nobody has the balls to make a battery backpack.
15:13 < eudoxia> ahhaha running opencv on google glass
15:13 < eudoxia> good luck
15:13 < klafka> eudoxia: that's what i'm basically saying
15:13 <@fenn> i don't really know, there's a lot of specialized hardware that can be brought to bear on the task that isn't really available to most basement hackers
15:14 <@fenn> like if your camera chips automatically produced an integral image, or did canny edge detection or whatever as a first processing step
15:14 < eudoxia> klafka: "why do i have second degree burns on my temples"
15:14 < klafka> lol
15:14 < klafka> fenn fair enough
15:14 <@fenn> SIFT in hardware would be very useful for a zillion potential applications
15:15 < klafka> anyway  - i feel like i've read most of the literature out there of what people know about glass and talked to a number of people who used it and it dones't do facial recognition currently
15:15 < klafka> or detection
15:15 <@fenn> btw opencv was largely funded by intel to prove that intel was still relevant, so it isn't optimized for running on ARM architecture
15:15 < klafka> wait what?
15:16 < klafka> hasn't opencv been around for awhile
15:16 <@fenn> yes
15:16 < klafka> was this awhile ago
15:16 <@fenn> people have added to it since the initial release, of course
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15:16 < eudoxia> isn't OpenCV like a fork of an Intel library
15:16 < eudoxia> it's why IplImage is named IplImage
15:17 <@kanzure> "i guess so. but who would use anything but ARM in the portable/robotics use case?"
15:18 < klafka> aah
15:18 <@fenn> i can totally see wanting to use CUDA for robotics
15:18 <@fenn> afaik there aren't any "mobile" processors that support it
15:19 <@fenn> GPU whatever
15:19 <@fenn> digital black boxen
15:19 < klafka> i think it'll take a few more iterations
15:19 < klafka> and there will be
15:19 < klafka> i think atm everyone is so power conscious on mobile
15:19 < klafka> because batteries suck
15:19 < klafka> even so my nexus 4 gets fucking hot when i use it a bunch
15:20 <@kanzure> are those in stock yet
15:20 < klafka> yeah
15:20 < jrayhawk> 'There's no cellular radio in Glass' yeah, i imagine that would go badly
15:20 <@fenn> batteries will continue to suck, we will just get a slowly increasing percentage capacity out fo them
15:20 < klafka> jrayhawk:  they use bluetooth 4
15:20 < klafka> to tether to your phone/tablet
15:20 < jrayhawk> That's cool.
15:20 < klafka> fenn:  i can hope for a paradigm shifting advnace in a technology i know nothing about
15:20 < klafka> geez
15:21 <@fenn> maybe someone will figure out how to make a small portable methanol fuel cell
15:21 <@fenn> or chip turbines or something
15:21 <@fenn> but batteries are doomed
15:21 <@fenn> DOOMED i say
15:21 <@kanzure> i wish my phone was powered by gasoline
15:22 < klafka> i wonder if these would be a cool gift for someone http://www.marblesthebrainstore.com/sifteo-cubes-interactive-game-system?gdftrk=gdfV25307_a_7c1679_a_7c6469_a_7c1674&gclid=CL3w_bOS2rUCFWbZQgod2xwAhg
15:22 < klafka> i've played with them
15:22 < klafka> guh
15:22 <@fenn> that depends on the person
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15:24 <@fenn> i cant help but think they're full of explosives, and if you fail to solve the puzzle in time they explode
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15:25 < klafka> haha
15:33 < Sk__> Phone call. Sorry. Thanks for the links kanzure!
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16:10 <@kanzure> "Backyard Brains is housed and even does its shipping from allhandsactive.com "
16:11 <@kanzure> huh they let them store their inventory at their hackerspace?
16:12 < sheena1> So I need an INR testing machine for home use.. The doctor said they're available, but thousands of dollars. Thoughts?
16:13 <@kanzure> isn't INR a currency?
16:13 <@fenn> it's a time to clotting diagnostic for people on blood thinners
16:14 <@kanzure> so it looks at... light?
16:16 <@kanzure> looks like a blood test, so my bet is antibody and then bouncing light off of it to detect binding?
16:16 <@fenn> the "CoaguChek XS" is thousands of dollars?
16:18 <@kanzure> here's one claiming to be $100
16:18 <@kanzure> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/378956867/Coagulation_Analyzer.html
16:18 <@fenn> sheena1: this sort of thing usually boils down to finding the correct "program to aid disadavantaged people" in your area
16:19 <@fenn> since you're in canada it's not medicaid but i imagine there's something similar
16:20 < sheena1> they'll pay for the inr testing, but she has to physically go to the lab
16:20 < sheena1> and due to another drug she's on, her inr changes all the time, every test, pretty much
16:20 <@kanzure> here's one that does 200 tests/hour.. for $100? http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/547053652/200_tests_hour_automatic_blood_Chemistry.html
16:21 < sheena1> we've got the pharmacy worked out to change her warfarin doses for her (she can't do it herself), but getting out twice-3 times a week for the test is really REALLY hard
16:21 < sheena1> she went twice last week and got two other, unrelated tests done
16:21 < sheena1> cause she gets confused and the people at the lab are morons
16:21 < sheena1> kanzure: the first one is $100-$3000/unit, eh?
16:22 <@kanzure> it means you have to talk with them
16:22 <@fenn> it means they're $100 each in quantities of a million
16:22 <@kanzure> there's no way they manufactured a million of those ever
16:24 < ThomasEgi> ever is the word you should never use ;)
16:24 < sheena1> checking out coaguchek now
16:24 < ThomasEgi> like.. who'd possibly ever build more computers than you can address with ipv4..
16:24 < sheena1> they might have a help-low-income-patients program
16:24 < sheena1> some big comapnies too
16:26 <@fenn> ThomasEgi: http://www.xkcd.com/865/
16:26 < ThomasEgi> i would've bet 50 bucks it'? the nanomachine ipv4 comic
16:26 < ThomasEgi> and i would've won it
16:26 <@fenn> sheena1: i know nothing of coaguchek but it looked about right
16:27 < sheena1> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ROCHE-COAGUCHEK-S-SELF-TEST-COAGULATION-MONITOR-W-QUALITY-CONTROL-/330879380765?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d09f2ad1d&_uhb=1#ht_886wt_1055 that might be reasonable
16:28 <@kanzure> i wouldn't go for any strip stuff, that looks sorta dumb and vendor lockiny
16:28 <@fenn> "Electronic Quality Control unit with Sys Code Chip" great
16:28 <@fenn> strips use less blood which means you can do it without a phlebotomist
16:29 <@kanzure> yes but the strips seem to cost $295/pack
16:29 <@fenn> ouch
16:29 <@kanzure> if you wanted to spend a lot of money you would just pay someone
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16:30 <@fenn> still, $400 is better than $n,000
16:30 <@kanzure> for all these communities that have weird diseases that requires lots of testing, i still can't figure out why they don't have more open source hardware for these things
16:31 <@fenn> because everyone is an idiot and afraid they'll do it wrong and there are laws written by idiots
16:31 <@kanzure> out of the umpteen hundred thousand people that need to do multiple blood tests a day, none of them bother to figure this out?
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16:31 <@kanzure> right. i also expect insurance things play into it.
16:33 < sheena1> re strips, they seem to be around on ebay and stuff.. i found one on ebay that comes with 13 strips for $100.. that owuld last her at least a few months, in strips
16:33 < sheena1> she needs it about once a week, since she has a lab who will come once a week also
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16:59 <@kanzure> "On July 19, 2011 gamesindustry.biz reported that Gameloft's New Zealand studio employees faced excessive working hours.[15][16] The article included quotes from Gameloft's former head studio programmer, detailing 100 to 120 hour workweeks and "four consecutive weeks of fourteen-hour days".[15]"
17:01 < ParahSailin_> eg is gonna be launching a direct to consumer subsidiary for the dog version of 23andme
17:07 < sheena1> ParahSailin_: I'd love to know more!
17:11 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0057873
17:11 < paperbot> error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/The%20Relationship%20of%20Sugar%20to%20Population-Level%20Diabetes%20Prevalence%3A%20An%20Econometric%20Analysis%20of%20Repeated%20Cross-Sectional%20Data.pdf
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17:33 <@fenn> consumer electromyography armband https://getmyo.com/
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17:50 <@fenn> instead of searching for ever more elaborate and profound ways to specify "friendliness" why don't any professional AGI worriers simply promote a moderate utility function that expires after some upper limit has been reached? like, instead of "maximize paperclips" the function instead is "produce 1 million paper clips a second"
17:51 <@fenn> it seems like this fixation on linear optimization is some kind of personality quirk
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18:10 <@kanzure> fenn: if you want to play around with that hornet's nest, just ask that in #lesswrong
18:11 <@fenn> no, not really
18:11 <@fenn> "We are looking for Cyber Paladins with experience in one or more of the following:
18:12 <@fenn> * Polygraph required.
18:26 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/02/19/1217505110.abstract
18:26 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Lifespan%20of%20neurons%20is%20uncoupled%20from%20organismal%20lifespan.pdf
18:27 < ParahSailin_> i can beat a polygraph, where do i sign up
18:28 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/srep/2013/130228/srep01319/full/srep01319.html
18:28 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/A%20Brain-to-Brain%20Interface%20for%20Real-Time%20Sharing%20of%20Sensorimotor%20Information.pdf
18:28 <@fenn> i love figure 1 http://www.lucifer.com/~sasha/articles/techuman.html
18:29 <@kanzure> that guy is very dead.
18:29 <@kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Chislenko
18:29 <@fenn> yeah i've never heard of him, its interesting digging through his virtual estate
18:29 <@kanzure> a lot of the extropians mention him any chance they get
18:29 <@kanzure> so i heard his name often when i was at max's
18:30 <@fenn> did anders sandberg ever explain why he took down his awesome website?
18:30 <@fenn> where he = anders
18:31 <@kanzure> do you mean http://www.aleph.se/Trans/
18:32 <@fenn> there was also an art collection at nada.kth.se/~asa/ but i'm not sure if it's the same as what you just linked to
18:32 <@kanzure> it was http://www.aleph.se/andart/
18:33 <@kanzure> also it's http://www.nada.kth.se/~asa/ not http://nada.kth.se/~asa/
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18:33 < delinquentme> paperbot, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23201925
18:33 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/fa27220329e2cbaa9e95fe9a375eaef7.txt
18:34 <@fenn> ah it is still there
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18:47 < nmz787> howdy
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19:38 < delinquentme> paperbot, http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1568997212002728
19:38 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/The%20circulatory%20systemic%20environment%20as%20a%20modulator%20of%20neurogenesis%20and%20brain%20aging.txt
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20:19 < nmz787> jrayhawk: "They are omnivores, eating small animals, fruit, tree gum, and other vegetation."
20:20 < nmz787> jrayhawk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_loris
20:20 < nmz787> jrayhawk: so seems some gums may be fine to eat
20:21 < nmz787> "A 1984 study of the Sunda slow loris indicated that its diet consists of 71% fruit and gums, and 29% insects and other animal prey"
20:23 < ParahSailin_> why you bring up gums?
20:23 < nmz787> hmm
20:23 < nmz787> "The plant gums, obtained typically from species in the family Fabaceae (peas), are high in carbohydrates and lipids, and can serve as a year-around source of food, or an emergency reserve when other preferred food items are scarce.[108] Several anatomical adaptations present in slow lorises may enhance their ability to feed on exudates: a long narrow tongue to make it easier to reach gum stashed in cracks and crevices, a large cecum to help the anim
20:23 < nmz787> I'm not sure how our cecum to duodenum ratio compares to theirs
20:24 < nmz787> ParahSailin_: jrayhawk mentioned gums being something he wasn't sure of being non-inflammatory
20:24 < nmz787> ParahSailin_: I guess there are a lot of them
20:25 < ParahSailin_> i didnt realize they were digestible
20:25 < ParahSailin_> guar gum is fiber for us
20:26 < jrayhawk> Yeah, plant exudates have a lot of genetic pressure to repel other lifeforms.
20:27 < nmz787> It'd be cool to splice some human DNA with a slow loris's
20:27 < nmz787> you'd make ewoks, essentially
20:28 <@fenn> venomous ewoks
20:28 < nmz787> :D
20:29 < jrayhawk> the island of doctor mccorkle
20:30 < nmz787> all my children, hmm, yes...
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21:03 < docl> Apparently there are two projects na
21:04 <@kanzure> hm?
21:04 < docl> named gmod
21:04 < docl> Grr. Android input.
21:09 < docl> Anyway someone was telling me about Gary's Mod, a popular 3d modeling framework, so I googled for it and discovered GMOD, Generic Model Organism Database.
21:10 < docl> http://www.gmod.org/wiki/Main_Page
21:11 < jrayhawk> "3d modeling framework" is such a classification for it
21:11 < jrayhawk> er, dignified
21:16 < docl> Ah I see, the capitalization is different, GMod vs GMOD.
21:17 < docl> Never again shall I confuse the two. Lol.
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22:48 < nmz787> just transferred some kombucha mushrooms from the mailing container to fresh sweet tea
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--- Log closed Fri Mar 01 00:00:14 2013