--- Log opened Wed Mar 06 00:00:19 2013 00:50 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@103-9-42-31.flip.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:00 -!- Urchin{emacs} [~user@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:11 -!- abumirqaan [uid2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-khshaiulxxlyrpac] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:21 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:24 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:48 -!- ielo [~ielo@cpc9-addl4-2-0-cust229.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:57 < nmz787> chesapeake bio looks like vapor at least on their website 02:02 -!- ielo [~ielo@cpc9-addl4-2-0-cust229.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:11 -!- cpopell [~cpopell@71.255.241.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:23 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:35 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:42 -!- abetusk [~abetusk@cpe-24-58-232-122.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:39 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:57 -!- ielo [~ielo@134.219.227.25] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:24 -!- ielo [~ielo@134.219.227.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:26 -!- ielo [~ielo@134.219.227.25] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:33 < archels> Hmmm... so taking calcium supplements is generally bad for you. Tap water contains quite a bit of calcium. Should one thus not drink too much tap water? 04:35 -!- Urchin{emacs} [~user@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:36 -!- mutagen [~safitan@75-105-12-23.cust.wildblue.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:36 -!- safitan [~safitan@75-105-12-23.cust.wildblue.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:44 -!- ielo [~ielo@134.219.227.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:44 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@185.5.8.81] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:44 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@185.5.8.81] has quit [Changing host] 05:44 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:00 -!- Gwyxx [~Gwyxx@isd01.hq.networklayer.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:02 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:22 -!- etheros [~etheros@2601:0:8980:7d:21f:f3ff:fe5c:f708] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:33 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:15 -!- yorick_ [~yorick@vredebest.xs4all.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:15 -!- yorick_ [~yorick@vredebest.xs4all.nl] has quit [Changing host] 07:15 -!- yorick_ [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:25 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:48 -!- yoleaux [~yoleaux@obquire.infologie.co] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:48 -!- yoleaux [~yoleaux@obquire.infologie.co] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:09 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@76.119.232.111] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:09 < delinquentme> zomg HIO 08:09 < delinquentme> kanzure, you know about tons of these technologies 08:09 < delinquentme> like whats new in the shit 08:09 < delinquentme> pink is advocating to get a grand overview ... and then pipeline processes which create value 08:09 < delinquentme> but youuuu should have the overview no? 08:13 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:15 -!- cpopell [~cpopell@pool-71-255-241-96.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:35 -!- ielo [~ielo@cpc9-addl4-2-0-cust229.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:45 -!- etheros [~etheros@2601:0:8980:7d:21f:f3ff:fe5c:f708] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:54 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@76.119.232.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:55 -!- klafka [~klafka@67.174.253.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:56 < nmz787> paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jps.2600670519/pdf 09:56 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/180b7d891488ac700cc1eaa612403ecc.txt 10:01 < nmz787> paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com.journals.conserveonline.org:2048/doi/10.1002/jps.2600670519/pdf 10:01 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/8fe835de5c5f862b01b0d0b3bab503c6.txt 10:46 -!- archbox_ [~archie@unaffiliated/archbox] has quit [Quit: bye] 10:48 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:03 -!- klafka [~klafka@204-16-157-18-static.ipnetworksinc.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:10 < ParahSailin> you should ban delinguentme 11:18 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:24 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:26 < nmz787> what the hell is pink anyway 12:27 < nmz787> the Victorias Secret campaign 12:27 < nmz787> the music artist 12:27 < nmz787> the color 12:27 < nmz787> vagina 12:27 < nmz787> pork 12:28 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: that very question has plagued me for years. 12:32 < ParahSailin> well you have confirmation that others have the opinion that he adds nothing here 12:39 < chris_99> http://www.theatlanticcities.com/arts-and-lifestyle/2013/03/farming-technique-will-revolutionize-way-we-eat/4880/ hadn't heard of that before 'aquaponics' 12:40 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: he occassionally builds a thing that doesn't entirely suck. 12:42 < ParahSailin> ah, i didnt realize he did anything 12:42 <@kanzure> i told him to gtfo until he had a prototype and then he came back with a prototype 12:42 <@kanzure> so i got nothing on him now :( 12:42 < ParahSailin> prototype of what 12:42 <@kanzure> orbital shaker 12:42 < ParahSailin> oh so hes not a total loser 12:42 <@kanzure> liquid handling machine 12:43 <@kanzure> you can see my dilemma. 12:48 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:53 -!- safitan is now known as mutagen 13:32 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:39 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:53 <@kanzure> eleitl is trying to do diy production of microelectrode arrays 13:54 < archels> that's silly, you can get pretty decent ones for a few hundred bucks 13:54 < archels> tell him to use a CMOS sensor instead :) 13:54 <@kanzure> is a utah array that cheap? 13:55 < archels> no, flat arrays are 13:55 <@kanzure> can you link me to one? 13:55 < chris_99> what's he planning on using them for? 13:55 <@kanzure> same thing as everyone else.. neural recording and stimulation. 13:56 < ThomasEgi> the utah array sels for roughly 4k 13:56 <@kanzure> ah i never knew how much, geeze. 13:56 <@kanzure> is it hard to manufacture? 13:57 < ThomasEgi> if you have the right tools, it's not that hard 13:57 <@kanzure> i'm p. sure most research about microelectrode arrays is using the utah array itself 13:57 < chris_99> some are implantable though aren't they 13:57 < chris_99> some aren't 13:58 <@kanzure> archels: you can tell him to use cmos sensors yourself, https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/diybio/h82UDs7fw14 14:01 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:03 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: bbl] 14:14 -!- audy [~audy@unaffiliated/audy] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 14:23 -!- phillyj [~chatzilla@pool-108-52-67-210.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:28 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:28 <@kanzure> phillyj: hello 14:28 <@kanzure> phillyj: welcome back 14:28 < phillyj> kanzure: hey bryan 14:29 <@kanzure> how goes the job? 14:29 < phillyj> kanzure: u remind me once in a while and i come back to check things out on here 14:29 < phillyj> its good 14:29 < phillyj> workin on new contracts 14:29 <@kanzure> one of the new features is paperbot 14:29 < phillyj> learning new stuff 14:29 < phillyj> ic 14:30 < phillyj> journal articles? 14:30 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0006291X89924005 14:30 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Electro-insertion%20of%20xeno-glycophorin%20into%20the%20red%20blood%20cell%20membrane.txt 14:30 < phillyj> sweet 14:30 <@kanzure> that's a bad example i guess, since the pdf wasn't fetched that time. 14:30 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2010/03/04/rspb.2010.0001.short 14:30 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/e09e043e8f91a13687790044a07f10a4.txt 14:30 <@kanzure> wow that one was working a few days ago 14:31 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nprot/journal/v7/n12/abs/nprot.2012.140.html 14:31 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Monitoring%20local%20synaptic%20activity%20with%20astrocytic%20patch%20pipettes.pdf 14:31 <@kanzure> there we go :) 14:31 < phillyj> how does this work? 14:32 < phillyj> how did u pull up that paper? 14:32 <@kanzure> paperbot's source code is here https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot 14:32 <@kanzure> paperbot is just an elaborate interface to zotero translation-server, which uses zotero without a browser. zotero has 100s of scrapers for academic journals. 14:35 < phillyj> kanzure: if i type a link, paperbot activates? 14:35 < phillyj> http://microfluidics.utoronto.ca/papers/DMF%20by%20Marker%20Masking.pdf 14:36 < phillyj> paperbot: http://microfluidics.utoronto.ca/papers/DMF%20by%20Marker%20Masking.pdf 14:36 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/b594add7ad6f4c3c819df96e9ade9e3d.pdf 14:36 < phillyj> ic now, that's cool 14:57 < jrayhawk> http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_and_reverse_climate_change.html on the subject of revolutionary agriculture 15:00 < jrayhawk> archels: Calcium is dangerous in the context of micronutrient imbalances. Excess vitamin A causes bone demineralization, excess vitamin D causes soft tissue calcification, and vitamin K2 deficiency causes both. 15:01 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:02 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:04 < jrayhawk> Calcium supplementation is almost always ineptly throwing more calcium at a calcium management problem. Genuine deficiencies are very rare. 15:11 < jrayhawk> s/[Ee]xcess vitamin ([AD])/Vitamin \1 dominance/ 15:24 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:24 -!- audy [~audy@heyaudy.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:24 -!- audy [~audy@heyaudy.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:25 -!- audy [~audy@heyaudy.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:36 -!- phillyj [~chatzilla@pool-108-52-67-210.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 19.0/20130215130331]] 15:36 -!- audy- [~audy@heyaudy.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:37 -!- audy [~audy@heyaudy.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 15:38 -!- yorick_ [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38 <@fenn> archels: more important is the ratio of calcium to magnesium (we dont get enough magnesium); i figure if you get enough magnesium from supplements or super special water you won't need to worry about calcium in the water 15:42 -!- audy- is now known as audy 15:42 <@fenn> of course what jrayhawk said is correct too. nobody said it was simple 15:42 -!- audy [~audy@heyaudy.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:42 -!- audy [~audy@unaffiliated/audy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:44 <@kanzure> hmm https://www.circuitlab.com/blog/2013/03/06/circuitlab-integration-on-electronics-stack-exchange/ 15:44 <@kanzure> http://electronics.stackexchange.com/?from=CircuitLab 15:44 <@kanzure> "We are excited to announce that CircuitLab is now integrated with the Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange site! Users can now insert a CircuitLab schematic directly into their question or answer." 15:45 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:45 <@fenn> what is circuitlab 15:45 <@kanzure> it's like upverter 15:45 <@fenn> great 15:45 <@kanzure> html/javascript schematic editor 15:45 <@fenn> does it export its fucking data format 15:46 <@kanzure> haven't checked. upverter does (a bit? all the way? something like that). 15:46 <@kanzure> http://blog.upverter.com/import-and-export-upverter-open-json-file-for 15:46 <@fenn> no, circuitlab not upverter 15:46 <@fenn> "The only thing you can't do is render the schematics of your circuit (i.e Export to PDF, SVG, etc..." 15:47 <@fenn> Can I export my CircuitLab schematics out to another tool? 15:47 <@fenn> Not at this time. 15:47 <@kanzure> ouch 15:47 <@fenn> fuck that 15:47 <@kanzure> well, i can write some javascript to steal the data from their editor if someone finds a circuit they want. 15:47 <@fenn> i'm surprised i can't think of any general purpose netlist format 15:48 <@fenn> there's spice but it doesn't handle integrated circuits 15:48 <@kanzure> yeah i thought it was weird that upverter chose json until i tried to think of something else they could use, and thought of nothing.. 15:48 <@fenn> well json seems reasonable 15:48 <@kanzure> yes but they had to come up with it 15:49 <@fenn> anyway i see this as sort of like "stackexchange users can now insert java applets into their code! yay!~" 15:50 <@fenn> except java is at least a standard 15:50 <@kanzure> html is also a standard :p 15:50 <@fenn> protons and electrons vibrating in space 15:51 <@fenn> everything's physics! 15:52 <@kanzure> rcs.org has a few java applets that (apparently) many professors and schools use for doing their chemistry lab work 15:52 <@kanzure> and when windows/osx rolled out their recent "disable jvm because of a critical vulnerability" a few weeks ago, that all stopped working 15:53 <@kanzure> so there was a lot of hurried emails i saw complaining about this 15:53 <@kanzure> pretty strange to see so many people using java applets 15:53 <@fenn> wow big surprise here: "At this time, CircuitLab is entirely free-of-charge. 15:53 <@fenn> In the future, as the tool continues to grow and evolve, we may decide to charge 15:54 <@fenn> java applets were a big deal in 2000 15:54 <@fenn> for a long time it was the only way to do anything that required fast computation in the browser 15:54 <@fenn> recently javascript interpreters have sped up a lot 15:55 <@fenn> javascript is still slower though 15:56 <@fenn> i havent been able to get java plugins to work for years though 15:56 <@kanzure> i usually download the jar and run it with webstart from the shell 15:58 <@fenn> hm. i only ever wanted to use the falstad.com math and physics demos, and occasionally some crusty government GIS tools 15:58 <@kanzure> i used an ssh applet so that i can do real work while at school 15:58 <@fenn> oh but now we have "apps" for that :\ 15:59 <@fenn> what is an "app" anyway 15:59 <@kanzure> well it was windows, so it had a lot of lockdown, and i couldn't install putty. 15:59 <@fenn> "packaged apps are written in HTML5, JavaScript, and CSS. But packaged apps look and behave like native apps, and they have native-like capabilities that are much more powerful than those available to web apps." 16:00 <@fenn> i just mean this chrome extension thing, which seems totally bizarre to me 16:00 <@kanzure> do firefox extensions seem strange? 16:00 <@fenn> like, the browser can't handle ssh:// protocol urls, but there's this thing you can install that isn't a document and isn't a program 16:00 <@fenn> blegh 16:01 <@fenn> no wonder kids dont know how computers work 16:02 <@fenn> firefox extensions just modify how the browser goes about displaying a page 16:02 <@fenn> chrome apps are like webpages, but they're not on the web, or something 16:02 <@kanzure> firefox extensions do much more than that 16:02 <@kanzure> it's more similar than you might think 16:02 <@kanzure> because firefox's entire infrastructure is all javascript 16:02 <@fenn> it is? 16:03 <@kanzure> there are some parts that are not (like gecko) but everything else.. basically yes. 16:03 <@fenn> they've invented so many layers and api's and copies of everything that i just assumed it was all in C++ 16:03 <@fenn> like XUL, what the hell is that 16:05 <@kanzure> http://web.uvic.ca/~hitchner/assign1.pdf 16:05 <@kanzure> firefox architecture explanation doc 16:05 <@kanzure> hm that doesn't explain the thing i wanted to point out 16:06 <@kanzure> zotero translation-server is an okay example. zotero was originally a firefox extension. but now they don't require firefox and just requier some of the other parts like gecko sdk and xulrunner. 16:07 <@kanzure> https://github.com/zotero/translation-server/blob/master/src/zotero.js 16:07 <@kanzure> https://github.com/zotero/zotero/tree/master/chrome/content/zotero 16:11 * fenn grumbles about boxes with dotted lines around them 16:12 <@fenn> i'm just worried that all the development is going to go into browser specific add-ons, and doing anything separately will become more and more of a chore because the tools weren't designed to be used by people in the first place 16:13 <@fenn> i shouldnt have to launch chrome to use the ssh protocol, but apparently you have to launch chrome to view a circuitlab document 16:15 <@fenn> then in ten years nobody will know where to find the program to view this document, because it was never a "real" program in the first place 16:15 <@fenn> you'd have to run a ten year old copy of chrome, and so on 16:16 <@kanzure> preaching to the choir 16:16 <@kanzure> that's why i offered to write some javascript to extract a circuit if you find one you like/want to keep. 16:17 * fenn grumbles about DMCA circumvention clause 16:17 <@fenn> i dont know if it's even worth it 16:18 <@kanzure> i never found anything particularly impressive on upverter 16:18 <@kanzure> i hear they have an arduino shield template.. but meh? 16:18 <@fenn> you'd just be propping up yet another web based circuit editor 16:19 <@kanzure> i am troubled about the lack of culture around "maintaining" circuits on upverter (or anywhere else) 16:20 <@fenn> well one of their two "featured" circuits is just a copy of a reference open source circuit taken from elsewhere on the web 16:20 <@fenn> the other one is trivial, in the math sense 16:21 <@kanzure> i guess once you make a voltage divider you don't really have to worry about it in the future, not much "maintaining" to do..? 16:22 <@fenn> a voltage divider is like the bitshift operator in C, it's not something one needs to distribute in the first place 16:22 <@fenn> i mean it's just a basic element of any design 16:23 < jrayhawk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb1pdvvoVoQ inflatable concrete rapid construction 16:24 <@fenn> odd how that downloads faster at high resolution 16:24 < jrayhawk> youtube does QoS based on video bitrate 16:25 < jrayhawk> Or some related heuristic. 16:26 <@fenn> i think it's related to how many people in your CDN node's area have downloaded it recently 16:26 <@fenn> at that particular resolution 16:27 < jrayhawk> Nah, pretty reliably spikes at the beginning and settles down to 1.5-2x bitrate within five seconds. 16:27 < jrayhawk> On some videos I get pissed off and just reinitiate connections until I get what I want. 16:28 <@fenn> heh 16:28 < jrayhawk> I'm a little surprised the quvi community hasn't automated that yet. 16:28 <@fenn> on some videos i just drag the slider around and watch the preview thumbnails 16:28 <@fenn> 90% o the time it conveys the message 16:29 <@fenn> look a talking head with poor lighting 16:29 < jrayhawk> TED! 16:29 <@fenn> at least they have slides usually 16:30 <@fenn> i'm talking about "my raw food diet update #22" 16:30 <@fenn> just give me the transcript please 16:31 <@kanzure> for some reason not many people believe in transcripts these days 16:31 <@fenn> i wish youtube's automatic captions were more accurate 16:31 <@kanzure> it's not exactly a huge investment 16:31 <@fenn> they can afford to do all this transcoding for free, why not decent speech recognition 16:31 < jrayhawk> crowdsource everything 16:32 <@kanzure> but the crowd invariably does not type it up 16:32 <@kanzure> it ends up being me 16:32 <@kanzure> a crowd of one 16:32 <@fenn> use humans to do the computer's job!~ 16:32 <@fenn> seriously when did this start sounding like a good idea 16:32 < klafka> mturk 16:32 <@fenn> it was a bad idea then too 16:32 <@kanzure> mturk costs money to do transcripts 16:33 <@kanzure> when you post a video, it should just be good citizenship to write up a quick transcript. 16:33 <@fenn> i think nobody knows how to do it because it's not part of the basic video upload interface 16:33 < jrayhawk> now i am sad that i am not watching "my raw food diet update #22" 16:39 -!- cpopell [~cpopell@pool-71-255-241-96.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:41 <@fenn> jrayhawk: i was thinking of this video http://www.rawradianthealth.com/blog/2011/01/15/part-1-my-vitamin-b12-deficiency-change-of-diet-ep321/ (hint: you can figure it out from the URL) 16:44 -!- _sol_ [~Sol@c-174-57-58-11.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:45 < jrayhawk> haha, good lord 16:51 < jrayhawk> that warms the cockles of my grain-hating bacon-loving heart 16:54 < jrayhawk> haha the difference in eye bagginess from that and http://www.rawradianthealth.com/blog/2011/11/16/test-results-update-on-my-vitamin-b12-deficiency-ep342/ 16:54 < jrayhawk> boom, thyroid works again 17:01 -!- aristarchus [~aristarch@unaffiliated/aristarchus] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:36 -!- ielo [~ielo@cpc9-addl4-2-0-cust229.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:47 -!- klafka [~klafka@204-16-157-18-static.ipnetworksinc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:06 < nmz787> i see bags under her eyes in both vids 18:07 < nmz787> i guess they're less blue 18:09 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:12 -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:12 -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has quit [Client Quit] 18:13 -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:17 <@kanzure> what's a sane way to return variables from a bash function? 18:17 <@kanzure> please assume i want to keep stdout 18:17 <@kanzure> i mean, that i am flooding stdout with crap. 18:18 <@kanzure> i see some guides that are suggesting to use eval(??) to set a global variable based on a name passed to the function, instead of just setting a global variable. 18:24 <@fenn> how many variables are you returning? 18:25 <@fenn> i'd just pass in empty variables to be filled 18:27 <@fenn> this could be an array, if you want to go there 18:27 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:31 <@kanzure> wtf, why doesn't this work? curl --request PUT --data "hello=world" -F myfile=@test.txt http://httpbin.org/put 18:32 <@kanzure> i am pretty sure you can send data inside a PUT request.. 18:33 <@fenn> because you're sending two types of data? --data and -F 18:34 <@kanzure> this works: r = requests.put("http://httpbin.org/put", data={"hello": "world"}, files={"stuff": open("/tmp/testing.txt", "r")}) 18:34 <@kanzure> when i set --data "hello=world" --data myfile=@test.txt, it sends "myfile=@test.txt" instead of a file called myfile. 18:35 <@fenn> of course 18:36 <@kanzure> "A normal PUT with curl is made with -T without the use of -X or -d." what.. 18:37 <@kanzure> i think this is saying that it is impossible to use command-line curl to PUT a file with other data in the same request 18:38 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:39 <@fenn> -T seems to be different from -F 18:39 <@kanzure> when i use --data with -T it seems to overwrite the other data with the file contents 18:39 <@kanzure> also you can't set the filename when using -T (you must do -T file.txt not -T name=@file.txt) 18:40 <@fenn> perhaps requests and curl have different capabilities 18:40 <@kanzure> they definitely do 18:41 <@kanzure> requests uses urllib3 18:41 <@kanzure> there's human_curl which has the same api as requests but uses curl under the hood 18:41 <@fenn> maybe nobody ever thought you'd want to send form data and multipart form data in the same request 18:41 <@kanzure> ... really? 18:41 <@kanzure> i'm pretty sure i do that all the time on forms 18:41 <@kanzure> "upload a file, also type some things to describe this file". happens everywhere on the web. 18:44 <@fenn> this seems to support my theory http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12667797/using-curl-to-upload-post-data-with-files 18:45 <@fenn> basically they say to use a bunch of -F parameters 18:45 <@fenn> curl --request PUT -F "myfile=@test.txt" -F "hello=world" http://httpbin.org/put 18:46 <@kanzure> okay much better: curl --request PUT -F "hello=world" -F "stuff=@test.txt" http://httpbin.org/put 18:46 <@kanzure> yes 18:49 -!- aristarchus [~aristarch@unaffiliated/aristarchus] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:02 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:02 -!- Sanky [~SankyZNC@unaffiliated/sanky] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:03 -!- Sanky [~SankyZNC@unaffiliated/sanky] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:07 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:36 -!- JayDugger [~duggerjw@pool-173-74-81-239.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:46 -!- klafka [~klafka@c-24-6-18-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:55 -!- Guest61557 [~archie@ip24-255-8-249.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:58 -!- cpopell [~cpopell@pool-71-255-241-96.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:01 -!- Guest61557 is now known as archbox_ 20:01 -!- archbox_ [~archie@ip24-255-8-249.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:01 -!- archbox_ [~archie@unaffiliated/archbox] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:11 < nmz787> kanzure: uploading via android <=2.3 doesn't allow you to select multiple files from the image gallery 20:15 <@kanzure> install linux, use a terminal app, and just chroot into linux. 20:16 <@kanzure> i guess i mean install debian, not linux. 20:17 -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has quit [Quit: jmil] 20:19 -!- archbox_ is now known as archbox 20:21 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:23 -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:28 -!- phryk [~phryk@static.39.216.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:35 <@kanzure> http://www.the-scientist.com/?magazines.view/magazineIssueNo/1634/title/The-Do-It-Yourself-Revolution/ 20:35 <@kanzure> http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/34457/title/The-Rebirth-of-DIYbio/ 20:35 <@kanzure> http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/34467/title/DIY-in-the-Lab/ 20:35 <@kanzure> http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/34442/title/Sticky-Lithography/ 20:36 <@kanzure> http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/34443/title/DIYbio--Low-Risk--High-Potential/ 20:36 <@kanzure> http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/34444/title/Regulating-Amateurs/ 20:36 <@kanzure> http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/34433/title/Do-It-Yourself-Medicine/ 20:36 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:37 <@kanzure> "Humberto Macedo, an ALS patient in Brazil, started a Google Docs spreadsheet to track self-reported ALSFRS-R scores." clearly he most be stopped (using google docs is an obvious sign of being completely nuts) 20:39 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40 -!- phryk [~phryk@static.39.216.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:41 <@kanzure> haha they got todd to write the article on risk? that's the most biased source you can pick. 20:42 <@kanzure> "A key first step is choosing a leader. The NSABB, set up after the Fink Committee report, has already become a source of expertise in regulation and safety and is an obvious choice as a central authority to oversee DIYbio" 20:42 <@kanzure> ugh 20:43 <@kanzure> "Another important task is to encourage further institutionalization of the DIYbio movement." how did that sentence pass editing? that sentence just explodes all over itself. 20:44 <@fenn> yes they should all be put in padded rooms before they explode again 20:45 <@kanzure> "our plan is to institutionalize the non-institutionalization people" 20:46 <@fenn> you'd think it would be an obvious contradiction, but years of argument on the mailing list shows that many people don't see it that way 20:47 <@kanzure> probably because everyone is generally okay with things like biocurious and genspace existing.. but this means that when they get in the media splotlight, they don't ever clarify the non-institutional aspects of people who don't explicitly use their labs. 20:47 <@fenn> i haven't been following it for a while; has anyone associated with DIYbio actually done anything useful in the past year? 20:47 <@kanzure> patrik broke a printer and put some notes on instructables 20:48 <@fenn> okay, but that has nothing to do with biology 20:48 <@kanzure> cathal has been working on a custom plasmid that he plans to sell 20:48 <@fenn> what does it do? 20:48 -!- etheros [~etheros@2601:0:8980:7d:21f:f3ff:fe5c:f708] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:48 <@kanzure> i think his goal is to just make it easier to insert genes 20:49 <@fenn> fair enough 20:49 <@kanzure> not sure, i don't remember the details because he's sort of hush hush about it. 20:49 <@fenn> has anyone snagged a copy of biobrick dna yet? 20:49 <@kanzure> stacey put up some notes on instructables for another thermocycler http://www.instructables.com/id/Arduino-PCR-thermal-cycler-for-under-85/ http://github.com/kanzure/wiremound-pcr 20:49 <@kanzure> no, but juul would be the person to ask about that since he works for biofab/drew endy 20:50 -!- yash [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:50 <@fenn> i thought the pvc+lightbulb thing was good enough 20:50 <@kanzure> i'm just trying to remember specific things you might be interested in 20:50 <@fenn> so, two hackerspaces and zero projects came out of them? 20:50 <@kanzure> yash: fenn wants a list of things that happened in diybio in the past year that might be categorized as progress 20:51 < yash> pfft haha 20:51 <@fenn> or even negative results 20:51 <@kanzure> this is up-to-date if you want to look yourself, but it's only what the news picks up http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/news 20:51 <@fenn> diybio should publish its own newsletter. what happened to that? nobody cares? 20:51 <@kanzure> a lot of the recent stuff has been commercial.. like john schloendorn finally started a company to sell reagents. 20:52 <@kanzure> mac wanted it to be his own thing, that postcard thing 20:52 <@kanzure> where he physically sends you a fucking postcard -_- 20:52 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:52 <@fenn> i dont get the postcard idea at all 20:52 -!- yash is now known as yashgaroth 20:52 <@kanzure> it's for people in the government who believe in information overload 20:52 <@kanzure> they think it's "neat" 20:52 <@fenn> the reason for diybio writing its own newletter is that other news sources just rehash the same stories over and over 20:53 <@kanzure> well jason/mac wanted people to write blog articles for a while, but nobody regularly submitted content 20:53 <@fenn> so if you want to know what's actually going on, you're out of luck 20:53 <@kanzure> and i guess jason/mac are both too lazy to do it themselves 20:53 <@fenn> bastards 20:53 <@fenn> printing out a hashtag doesn't count as editorial critique 20:53 <@kanzure> there was a biosafety thing that jason setup... but you have to go to diybio.org to type in your question to this box, and then an Expert might answer your question~~ 20:54 <@kanzure> lamest shit ever 20:54 <@fenn> is there a stackoverflow thingy for wetlab techniques? 20:55 <@kanzure> yes it's called methodmint and nobody uses it 20:55 <@fenn> http://biology.stackexchange.com/ seems too general 20:55 <@kanzure> http://abl.es/ 20:56 <@kanzure> methodmint renamed to abl.es and i haven't been able to remember it ever since 20:56 -!- yash [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:56 < yash> ffs 20:56 <@fenn> it just looks like a blank white page 20:56 <@fenn> is this some kind of postmodern ironic satire? 20:56 <@fenn> "just change the values of the pixels to create your own instructions!" 20:57 <@kanzure> oh i didn't see this before, but they seem to have git repos for their site on the public web 20:57 <@kanzure> http://trac.methodmint.org/wiki/MethodmintRepositories 20:57 <@kanzure> i wonder if that is intentional 20:57 < yash> ok so seriously I guess openbiotech.com is diybio-related, but I don't really follow the google group that much 20:57 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:58 <@kanzure> openbiotech.com is just a company though 20:58 < yash> yeah, but...still, I guess 20:58 -!- yash is now known as yashgaroth 20:59 -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has quit [Quit: jmil] 20:59 <@kanzure> database password is 'mould' http://trac.methodmint.org/browser/settings.py 20:59 <@kanzure> my guess is that this is not supposed to be public 20:59 <@kanzure> gentlemen, start your cloning. 21:00 <@fenn> woo a bunch of plaintext protocols that may or may not be correct 21:00 <@kanzure> right.. 21:00 <@kanzure> well that's the reaction to any book of protocols 21:01 <@kanzure> is there a way to clone from trac? it looks like it doesn't expose the git repository itself. 21:02 <@fenn> isnt trac usually svn? 21:03 <@fenn> anyway i doubt the protocols are in the repo, since it's django 21:03 <@fenn> you need to get a database dump somehow 21:03 <@kanzure> er no i am just interested in defacing their site or having access without their knowledge 21:04 <@kanzure> their protocols aren't that interesting 21:04 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:04 -!- Gwyxx [~Gwyxx@isd01.hq.networklayer.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:05 <@fenn> if you dont care about version history you can just spider http://trac.methodmint.org/browser 21:05 <@fenn> oh i guess they are using git 21:07 <@kanzure> yeah i just thought trac would host something like trac.methodmint.org/methodmint.git or something 21:09 <@kanzure> aha http://git.methodmint.com/methodmint 21:09 <@fenn> gee i wonder what the password might be 21:12 <@kanzure> i think SECRET_KEY = 'u2y=71bj-k%-iubxq+gvtwo7__7#b2gr^^4ug)a4*uzy^c7d#m' 21:12 <@kanzure> could be used somehow, i just don't remember the exact algorithm django uses to generate its cookies. 21:12 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:12 <@kanzure> something like sha256(SECRET_KEY + str(user.id)) 21:15 <@fenn> i'm always amazed at how much goes into a simple website 21:15 <@kanzure> i wasn't aware that they have taken 2 years to make the site so far, that's a bit extreme for the current state of the site. it looks like it's just a once-in-a-while hobby of theirs. 21:16 <@fenn> maybe it is a once-in-a-while hobby that they've been doing for two years 21:18 <@fenn> how do they get people to contribute protocols? 21:20 <@kanzure> i don't think they do.. it looks like their plan was "build it and they will come". 21:20 <@fenn> but they have contributions 21:20 <@kanzure> ah.. hashlib.sha1((key_salt + secret).encode("utf-8")).digest() 21:20 <@kanzure> the fuck is key_salt in this case 21:22 <@kanzure> hashlib.sha1("u2y=71bj-k%-iubxq+gvtwo7__7#b2gr^^4ug)a4*uzy^c7d#m" + str(963)).hexdigest() 21:22 <@kanzure> this does not match the cookie they gave me. 21:23 <@fenn> 379 users so far is not too bad http://abl.es/profiles/379/ 21:23 <@fenn> you know what a salt is right? 21:23 <@kanzure> yes but the salt has to be written down somewhere 21:24 <@kanzure> i don't see it in settings.py 21:27 -!- etheros [~etheros@2601:0:8980:7d:21f:f3ff:fe5c:f708] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:27 -!- etheros [~etheros@2601:0:8980:7d:21f:f3ff:fe5c:f708] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:28 <@fenn> sorry i got you distracted on this 21:28 <@fenn> there are probably more worthwhile things to be doing 21:29 <@kanzure> like taking pictures of ads http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/bldfjiad.gif 21:30 <@fenn> why is it red? 21:30 <@kanzure> probably to match the app's background 21:31 <@fenn> is there OCR designed for screenshots? 21:31 <@kanzure> actually it started out as html 21:31 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/ad.html 21:31 <@kanzure> but if i want to store what the ad looks like i think an image is better 21:32 <@fenn> uh, okay 21:32 <@kanzure> can't have 100 iframes on a page showing ads 21:32 <@fenn> why not 21:33 <@kanzure> their remote javascript might change 21:33 <@kanzure> they might start blocking http requests that have my referer address 21:33 <@fenn> can't you just save the html? 21:33 <@kanzure> the html calls on some remote js 21:33 <@fenn> oh 21:34 <@kanzure> i could host that js myself but then i need to port all the things in it to work with my servers 21:34 <@kanzure> and then i need to do this each time they change their js 21:34 <@fenn> dont you love the internet 21:34 <@kanzure> not really 21:35 <@fenn> whats the word or observing a black box and designing a program that emulates all of its functions 21:35 <@fenn> for* 21:36 <@fenn> reverse engineering is not really what i mean, more like automated decompilation, but without any binary 21:36 <@fenn> i guess that's an NP hard problem 21:37 <@fenn> it would make for some kick-ass compression though 21:37 <@kanzure> i thought that was called black boxing 21:37 <@fenn> isn't that a word for something a human programmer does? 21:38 <@fenn> meh. nevermind 21:39 <@fenn> eureqa/symbolic regression gets close 21:40 <@kanzure> i keep finding creative excuses to use eureqa 21:40 <@kanzure> the last time i used it was to figure out the algorithm for how pokemon maps connect to each other in the games. 21:40 <@kanzure> there were about 10 variables that had to be manipulated somehow to get a series of bytes for each map 21:40 <@fenn> i want to run it on the tables in CRC handbook, machinery handbook, etc 21:40 <@kanzure> too bad that would be a DMCA violation. 21:41 <@fenn> no it wouldn't 21:41 <@fenn> i'm just deciphering the laws of the universe, a purely philosophical inquiry 21:41 <@kanzure> well, crc is hosted on the web somewhere, and it has a few anti-circumvention things. 21:42 <@fenn> ah i do have the pdf 21:42 <@kanzure> tell juri_ to make gift do it for you 21:42 <@kanzure> that's her job right? 21:43 <@fenn> gift doesnt do layout recognition does it? 21:44 <@kanzure> never used it 21:44 <@fenn> i think it just compares histograms or something silly like that 21:45 <@fenn> you wouldn't think it's such a hard problem to reverse engineer page layouts 21:45 -!- abetusk [~abetusk@cpe-24-58-232-122.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:46 <@kanzure> well, make up some test cases and a scoring metric. 21:46 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:46 <@kanzure> based on some known-good samples. 21:46 <@kanzure> and then release that somewhere public so that you don't forget about it. 21:47 <@fenn> i'm not really sure how to go about it 21:47 <@fenn> most computer vision tools are pixel based, but a pdf has infinite resolution 21:47 <@fenn> seems wasteful to throw away those sub-pixel coincidences 21:47 <@kanzure> is it a poor scan of crc? 21:48 <@fenn> no it's the cd that came with the book 21:48 <@fenn> some of the pages are scans though, because the authors were lazy 21:48 <@fenn> maybe it's better to just assume i only have the scan 21:49 <@fenn> this is such a dumb problem, i hate humanity 21:49 * fenn goes away to mope 21:54 <@kanzure> oh geeze http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=bensw 22:01 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:02 -!- etheros [~etheros@2601:0:8980:7d:21f:f3ff:fe5c:f708] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:02 -!- etheros [~etheros@2601:0:8980:7d:21f:f3ff:fe5c:f708] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:05 < nmz787> so kanzure re: multi image select in android, looks like there is java code to add the checkbox to allow multi-select, but I'm wondering if I should do it in phonegap 22:05 < nmz787> iphone i believe allows multi image selection 22:06 < nmz787> but phonegap would allow a non-web app to take birth 22:08 <@kanzure> multi..select? 22:12 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:13 -!- sylph_mako [~mako@103-9-42-31.flip.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:21 < nmz787> yeah, i'm not sure why you mentioned installing debian earlier 22:21 < nmz787> that isn't something that's remotely possible to expect app users to do 22:22 <@kanzure> you said to upload images or something 22:22 <@kanzure> i assumed you meant on your phone 22:22 <@kanzure> so install debian in a chroot, then use a saner program like lftp, scp, etc., to upload multiple files. 22:44 -!- etheros [~etheros@2601:0:8980:7d:21f:f3ff:fe5c:f708] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:47 <@kanzure> authorea looks like a sharelatex clone http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5335304 22:47 <@kanzure> https://www.authorea.com/ 22:56 < cpopell> kanzure--meeting with Andrew Herr Tuesday. Any questions for him? 23:03 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:18 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:55 <@kanzure> hooray :rainbows: humanity+ is closing down 23:59 < archels> kanzure: so why did eleitl stop coming here anyway? --- Log closed Thu Mar 07 00:00:20 2013