--- Log opened Sat Mar 16 00:00:29 2013
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00:28 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.opticsinfobase.org/boe/abstract.cfm?URI=boe-4-4-559
00:28 < paperbot> error: HTTP 300 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/685c877b083bd7aeaf3f86ac28b8afd7.txt
00:28 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.opticsinfobase.org/DirectPDFAccess/74F7ADAA-F5EA-B097-DF0ABDB5B3580FBC_250843/boe-4-4-559.pdf?da=1&id=250843&seq=0&mobile=no
00:28 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/529af73d2514ef330dbb745d3a84eb89.pdf
00:29 < strangewarp> Bah. Judging by the task force's recommendations, it looks like Colorado's probably going to have potency limits on weedshop products, so I'll have to restrict my productivity experiments to conventional smoked sativa instead of sativa shatter oil.
00:30 < strangewarp> Same pharmacological effect, but less convenient.
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00:38 < JayDugger> Odd.
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00:40 < strangewarp> Ah wait.
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00:41 < strangewarp> The potency limits are just on edible/drinkable products. However, they're probably going to ban home production of concentrates like hash oil and shatter oil.
00:42 < strangewarp> No word on whether they've decided to ban growers from making such concentrates. I imagine not, but I've been surprised by dumb politicians before.
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00:45 < JayDugger> I find that all very weird. Only in CO have I seen a gun store, a liquor store, and an "ahem" dispensary in the same strip mall.
00:47 < JayDugger> Do you have a link for this set of recommendations, strangewarp?
00:48 < JayDugger> I'll forward it to my family in Denver.
00:48 < strangewarp> One second, it's a couple closed tabs ago...
00:48 < JayDugger> No worries. Thank you for doing my searching for me.
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00:50 < strangewarp> Here's the full PDF of the initial committee's legislation recommendations: http://www.colorado.gov/cms/forms/dor-tax/A64TaskForceFinalReport.pdf - Keep in mind that these are only /suggestions/ from an initial committee, and now they're being passed to the Joint Marijuana Task Force, the political entity whose job is writing the actual legislation.
00:50 < JayDugger> Thank you.
00:50 < strangewarp> (no pun intended in that name, if you'll believe it)
00:51 < JayDugger> No, I don't believe it. That must have been an intentional pun. :)
00:51 < strangewarp> Well, so far as I know, any task force with representatives from the State House and State Senate is called a Joint ___ Task Force, with the blank filled in depending on the issue.
00:52 < JayDugger> You're right. I prefer to believe in humor.
00:52 < strangewarp> heh
00:52 < JayDugger> Do I read this right? CO recommends permitting automated dispensing machines?
00:53 < strangewarp> I think so, but possibly only inside of licensed stores themselves, and individual communities might ban them regardless.
00:53 < JayDugger> Quick--upload your joint rolling machine designs to Thingiverse before they're banned.
00:54 < kanzure> upload them yourself
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00:57 < strangewarp> Ah okay, the initial task force just suggested limits on the contents of edibles, not the potency of concentrates.
00:58 < strangewarp> "These limitations should NOT apply to marijuana concentrates, tinctures, topicals, or
00:58 < strangewarp> products that are sold in pill, capsule or similar form, it being the intention of this
00:58 < strangewarp> recommendation to prevent accidental overconsumption of a single food-type
00:58 < strangewarp> product or products contained in one package.[...]"
00:58 < strangewarp> So I'll probably still get to experiment with sativa shatter oils, with the right THC:CBD ratio for getting productive instead of getting high.
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01:02 < strangewarp> And belatedly, yeah, Coloradoans are weird. Big libertarian streak across both major parties. When describing Colorado politically, people often say, "Love drugs, hate taxes"
01:17 < strangewarp> ah, errata: the commission writing the rules into law is actually called: "Joint Select Committee on the Implementation of the Amendment 64 Task Force Recommendations"
01:17 < strangewarp> the "Joint Marijuana Task Force" was the initial committee making the suggestions.
01:18 < strangewarp> this is so easy to just geek out over. :S
01:18  * strangewarp forces himself to close tabs and work on something
01:21 < brownies> strangewarp: what's a "shatter oil" ?
01:22 < strangewarp> Very very concentrated cannabis; moreso than regular hash oil. Also known as "wax" or "dabbing" and generally smoked in one hit from a specialized pipe.
01:23 < strangewarp> note: I haven't ever smoked weed, but I've always been curious about its effects, and I've been learning more about it ever since it got legalized here.
01:24 < brownies> intuition might suggest that you perhaps not start with the most potent possible form...
01:25 < strangewarp> With wax, the idea is, you take a small crumb of it, smoke it in one hit, and you don't have to deal with the hassle of loading a bong or rolling a joint.
01:27 < brownies> is that really the part that's a lot of hassle?
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01:28 < strangewarp> Well, the difference in convenience isn't drastic, which was why I wasn't very bummed when I erroneously thought they would be banning concentrates.
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02:56 < nsh> kanzure,
02:56 < nsh> DIY biologist on BBC breakfast show
02:56 < nsh> with home-made PCR machine
02:57 < nsh> two actually
02:57 < nsh> oh, they won awards
02:57 < nsh> of some kind
02:58 < nsh> Fred Turner UK young engineer of the year 2013
02:59 < nsh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW3K042bm-E
02:59 < nsh> .title
02:59 < yoleaux> UK Young Engineer of the Year 2013 - YouTube
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10:41 < kanzure> Qfwfq: fix yer connection
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10:50 < kanzure> "It's probably too late to ask now (the story was posted 19+ hours ago, as I write this), but -- do you know what happened to Google Groups digest emails? They just stopped working for me a long time ago, with no communication about what happened."
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12:26 < brownies> it is pretty annoying that Google Groups and FB Groups are the pinnacle of online group discussion right now
12:32 < kanzure> facebook group email support is even worse
12:33 < brownies> i recently joined a private group that's running on that Discourse thing that one guy made
12:33 < brownies> it seems quite nice
12:45 < kanzure> the plover people are making a steno keyboard with usb/bluetooth that has normal keyboard output
12:45 < kanzure> erm.. i mean text output.
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12:57 < kanzure> yashgaroth: there should be a person lizzo simpson who shows up at your lab?
12:58 < yashgaroth> possibly
12:58 < yashgaroth> wait are you asking or telling
12:58 < kanzure> asking
12:58 < kanzure> confirming
12:59 < yashgaroth> do you know them?
13:02 < kanzure> no
13:02 < yashgaroth> oh elizabeth simpson, she signed up on meetup but got all weird about the fact that we mentioned beer in the title of one meeting
13:03 < kanzure> ah okay. /me goes back to looking at data
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15:37 < superkuh> Guh. What is it with people who call themselves transhumanists believing in weak magnetic field effects and Persinger's bullshit?
15:39 < chris_99> weak magnetic field effects?
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15:39 < superkuh> These guys thing that ultra-low strength magnetic fields, microgauss, can somehow interact with the brain through stochastic resonances (or some shit, they never talk mechanism).
15:40 < superkuh> Er, s/thing/think/
15:40 < superkuh> This is one example of it: http://transhumanity.net/articles/entry/digital-nootropics
15:41 < superkuh> But I see it pop up regularly.
15:41 < chris_99> aha, so they're relating it to transcranial magnetic stimulation which requires a tonne of power?
15:42 < superkuh> Some do make that mistake. But many, this guy included, actually understand *why* weak field effects are bunk and not related but still "want to believe".
15:42 < superkuh> The last paragraph is the problem.
15:44 < superkuh> They always fall back to cite Persinger. Persinger believes the geomagnetic field of Earth connects all humans into a global consciousness. :\
15:44 < chris_99> haha
15:44 < chris_99> i've not heard of persinger
15:44 < superkuh> Be thankful.
15:45 < chris_99> hmm so does Persinger actually use high power magnetic fields?
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15:46 < superkuh> No.
15:46 < chris_99> ah
15:46 < superkuh> He tries to correlated the geomagnetic A index with dreams.
15:46 < chris_99> http://noosphere.princeton.edu/ <- he doesn't have anything to do with that per chance?
15:46 < chris_99> which is quite amusing
15:47  * superkuh shrugs.
15:47 < chris_99> they try to find patterns from RNGs
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16:58 < jrayhawk> http://noosphere.princeton.edu/papers/tech/Schumman.resonances.health.pdf is interesting reading
16:58  * superkuh sighs.
16:59 < jrayhawk> Hmm?
17:00 < superkuh> It is bullshit. The effect is tiny. They all postulate absurd stochastic resonance mechanisms (resonance with ion acoustic waves in this case).
17:00 < superkuh> There is no physical evidence supporting any effect.
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17:04 < superkuh> This paper seriously tries to correlate the sunspot number with cancer incidence...
17:05 < jrayhawk> Okay? Given the mechanism they're proposing, that sounds prudent to establish some level of biological plausibility.
17:07 < superkuh> The fields required to achieve the required rate of change of a magnetic field at a point on the surface of the cortex are in the 2-4 Tesla range. In his paper he says the lower-cut off for the K-index is at >28. That maps on to 70 - 120 nanoTesla. In a TMS pulse the magnetic field goes from 0 nanoTesla to 2,000,000,000 nanotesla in a hundred microseconds
17:07 < superkuh> So, for 100 nanoTesla to have the same rate in change the time would have to be twently million times faster than 100 microseconds. That's about 5 picoseconds. The geomagnetic field does not fluctuate even close to that fast. And if it did, the integration time for the firing of neurons is hundreds of microseconds long. Transients in voltage faster than that will be largely irrelevant.
17:08 < superkuh> Comparing TMS to the effects of geomagnetic fields is not physically valid and is misleading. And *anything* trying to talk about stochastic resonance of extra-cellular voltages with ion acoustic waves in a wet dense brain is a crank.
17:09 < superkuh> These people should be doing controlled experiments at small scales in the lab not talking about fucking sun spots and trying to correlate it with whatever fits their fancy.
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17:11 < jrayhawk> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1140%2Fepjp%2Fi2012-12037-7
17:11 < paperbot> error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/The%20use%20of%20pKZ1%20mouse%20chromosomal%20inversion%20assay%20to%20study%20biological%20effects%20of%20environmental%20background%20radiation.pdf
17:15 < jrayhawk> hmm. got to be something a bit more specific.
17:16 < superkuh> Was that to me? That is an article about ionizing radiation and unrelated.
17:16 < jrayhawk> Yeah, I'm just poking around at stuff.
17:16 < jrayhawk> Nothing compelling.
17:16 < superkuh> Alright.
17:16  * superkuh nods.
17:17 < superkuh> http://erewhon.superkuh.com/library/Biology/ , http://erewhon.superkuh.com/library/Neuroscience/Magnetic%20Stimulation/
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17:33 < jrayhawk> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4684-6799-4_8
17:33 < paperbot> error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/33062adeb9b8d2e358c32fa088d962ff.txt
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17:38 < jrayhawk> http://vitalfeldtherapie.eu/docs/referenz-umgebungsstrahlung/wever-1973.pdf looks hopeful
17:39 < jrayhawk> Higher-power, but definitely interesting.
17:42 < jrayhawk> it's a pity most of his crap is in german
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18:12 < superkuh> I don't think it is over-cautious or abnormal of me to perceive neurological or biochemical effects of weak magnetic fields like claims of cold fusion.
18:15 < jrayhawk> I'm not finding efforts to reproduce it, which makes me a little sad.
18:20 < jrayhawk> I guess not all that many researchers have isolation bunkers to play with.
18:22 < superkuh> They do have a lot of metal animal cages.
18:40 < kanzure> i wonder why patrik is against using the diyhpl.us wiki
18:40 < kanzure> hosting a mediawiki instance on heroku seems a little extreme
18:40 < kanzure> nmz787: what's patrik's beef
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20:16 < kanzure> ianmathwiz7: hello
20:18 < ianmathwiz7> hey
20:18 < ianmathwiz7> been a while since I've been on IRC...
20:23 < kanzure> sup
20:26 < cpopell> Hey ianmathwiz7
20:26 < ianmathwiz7> Hey cpopell
20:27 < ianmathwiz7> kanzure: not much; you?
20:27 < kanzure> dark side stuff
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21:50 < jrayhawk> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Ubiad1%20k2
21:50 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/6823b3f280a850d80f66cadf78472d32.txt
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22:01 < jrayhawk> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v468/n7320/pdf/nature09464.pdf
22:01 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/7c29fa14004c46324e006c29507698e9.pdf
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--- Log closed Sun Mar 17 00:00:30 2013