--- Log opened Sat Apr 13 00:00:02 2013 --- Day changed Sat Apr 13 2013 00:00 < yashgaroth> do you have a protein sequence yet? 00:00 < cory_> yeah, this was on a MiSeq 00:00 < ParahSail1n> miseq is kinda expensive, should have just outsourced to ucdavis or something 00:01 < cory_> no protein sequence yet, just got the sequencing data like 6 or 7 days ago 00:01 <@kanzure> wtf? didn't you put in the request to beijing genomics institute like 2 years ago? 00:01 < cory_> well, some people at harvard offered to do all the sequencing for free so I took them up on the offer 00:01 < ParahSail1n> cory_, when you get the server with the reads, send access instructions to ropoctl@gmail.com 00:01 < ParahSail1n> cory_, ah fair enough 00:01 <@kanzure> what happened to bgi doing the sequencing? 00:02 < ParahSail1n> harvard prepared the libraries? 00:02 < cory_> yeah, but by the time we actually got the bugs growing BGI no longer wanted to collaborate 00:02 < ParahSail1n> paired or single end, what read length 00:02 <@kanzure> that's lame of bgi. 00:03 < cory_> well, it was going to be part of some project to sequence like 1000 bacterial genomes or somehting. They had already completed their goal by the time I had the bug. 00:03 <@kanzure> maybe someone filled up their capacity. 00:04 < cory_> single-end, 150bp I think 00:04 < ParahSail1n> quality scores past 100 are not great, but can't argue with free 00:05 < ParahSail1n> if you give me those reads this weekend, i can run them through assembly and blast contigs 00:06 <@kanzure> oh right, don't you have like a fleet of servers for assembly? 00:06 < ParahSail1n> yes 00:06 < cory_> k, I'll see what I can come up with. 00:07 < ParahSail1n> should not be hard to find a nitrogenase in the mess 00:08 < yashgaroth> it seems they have the n-termini in the paper already 00:08 < cory_> the trick will be discerning the nitrogenase from CO-dehydrogenases and xanthine dehydrogenases, etc 00:09 < ParahSail1n> i dont think thatll be the problem 00:09 < cory_> btw, those N-termini are wrong. From some direct communication with the authors I found out they screwed it up and accidentially sequenced some proteins from a different organism all together 00:10 < cory_> and of course they never bothered to fix it 00:10 < ParahSail1n> heh yeah i wouldnt trust any wetlab stuff, especially when we got gbs of sequence data to play with 00:11 < yashgaroth> well if you don't get anywhere with genome sequences, you can probably purify a good sample of the enzyme and get a few peptide fragments sequenced 00:12 < cory_> I should have a lot better sequencing data in a week or 2. the first run had like 6 different variations of the 16S sequence in it, so I know it's a mixture of multiple strains 00:12 < ParahSail1n> you're looking for one gene, not nicely assembled scaffolds 00:12 < ParahSail1n> you're pretty likely to get it out of there 00:13 < ParahSail1n> so they're doing another miseq run on it? 00:13 < cory_> yeah 00:13 < ParahSail1n> see if they can do 2x100 paired end 00:14 < cory_> oh right, it's HiSeq rather than MiSeq and I think they are doing paired ends this time 00:14 < ParahSail1n> yeah thats good 00:14 < ParahSail1n> what % of a lane? 00:14 < cory_> not sure, sorry 00:14 < ParahSail1n> well it's definitely gonna be enough coverage 00:15 < cory_> anyways, I gotta get out of here. Gotta catch a flight early tomorrow morning. 00:16 < cory_> adios amigos 00:16 <@kanzure> seeya 00:16 -!- cory_ [475c4761@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.92.71.97] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:16 <@kanzure> i should trick him into showing up more often 00:53 -!- Juul [~Juul@50-0-83-116.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:57 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:06 < rigel> hey so 01:07 < rigel> what should i be using to provide access to my entire house to my library resources? is there some way i can set up a forwarding proxy that will automatically log me in? 01:07 < rigel> i find it a bit irritating to always be doing that, and want to allow my wife to access this stuff too 01:08 <@kanzure> if you are willing to use firefox or chrome then you can use zotero which can autologin to ezproxy 01:10 < rigel> i actually would rather do this via a proxy on my main server machine 01:10 < rigel> rather than set up her account with my pwn 01:10 < rigel> heh 01:10 < rigel> pw even 01:10 <@kanzure> you could use a bookmarklet that takes the current url and pastes it to http://ezproxy.lib.fuckyoucollege.edu/login?url=xyz and then you could have a proxy on your network that autologins when an ezproxy.lib.fuckyoucollege.edu is detected. 01:10 <@kanzure> e.g. the proxy could attach a cookie without passing the cookie to the client 01:11 < rigel> i would rather just pipe everything through http://my.server.lan/resource 01:11 <@kanzure> here's how the sticky cookie would work without passing the cookie to the client: http://mitmproxy.org/doc/sticky.html 01:11 <@kanzure> oh wait that's an awful example 01:11 <@kanzure> this, https://github.com/cortesi/mitmproxy/blob/master/examples/stickycookies 01:12 <@kanzure> i don't think passing every conceivable http request through a local proxy is a good idea for privacy reasons 01:12 < rigel> explain? 01:13 <@kanzure> which part :( 01:13 < rigel> the privacy reasons part 01:13 <@kanzure> it sounds to me like your idea of an optimal solution was "all outgoing http/https requests would go through a proxy and when the proxy detects the ezproxy url it will autologin" 01:13 < rigel> no 01:14 < rigel> what i mean is instead of going to the library resource page, i go to http://myserver.lan/resources that auto-logins and mitm's the resources 01:14 < rigel> so, you want to look at articles? go to http://myserver.lan/resources and choose from that menu 01:15 <@kanzure> mitmproxy/libmproxy can handle that quite easily with that stickycookie example 01:15 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:15 <@kanzure> although that's an http protocol level proxy, which is probably overkill 01:16 <@kanzure> ezproxy was actually made for these situations heh 01:17 <@kanzure> i have been fucking around with libmproxy all day so i have some serious mitmserver bias going on at the moment 01:17 <@kanzure> *mitmproxy 01:19 <@kanzure> i am busy replicating this at the moment http://blog.sabaini.at/2013/03/12/mocking-flask/ 01:20 < rigel> https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/534183_313164078812216_1083341310_n.jpg this made me smile 01:21 < nmz787> cool to see cory's updates 01:21 <@kanzure> so the advantage of the mitmproxy approach is that it will leave ezproxy's url rewriting in tact 01:22 <@kanzure> plus it can just store a cookie to login to your university's resources without sending that cookie to the client 01:22 < rigel> so i guess 01:22 <@kanzure> the downside is that https would require installing a custom cert on your clients 01:22 < rigel> how the fuck do i get a job doing this? 01:22 < rigel> because this is a hell of a lot more fun than medical school so far 01:22 <@kanzure> write lots of angry emails and hatemail 01:23 <@kanzure> basically just copy my emails 01:23 < rigel> i mean, i would love to take a few months to, you know, write a proper file explorer application that can use ssh key authentication to connect to my server at home 01:24 <@kanzure> i wonder how ezproxy gets around the https problem.. wtf? 01:24 < rigel> for android 01:24 <@kanzure> brownies: ezproxy. https. how does that work? i might be too sleepy to be coherent. 01:25 < rigel> there are no good fucking tools for android that are properly free and open source and what the fuck are people doing trying to sell me a goddamn ssh-enabled file manager that I CANT LOOK AT THE FUCKING CODE FOR HAVE YOU ASSHOLES NO CLUE WHAT SECURITY MEANS 01:25 < rigel> i think i feel a rant coming on 01:26 <@kanzure> ssh in terminal works fine on android. just use that to explore files. 01:26 < rigel> oh, connectbot is fine 01:26 < rigel> the variations of it are fine 01:26 <@kanzure> or use mosh. or the connectbot version of mosh or w/e. 01:26 < rigel> but they are cumbersome as hell to use to transfer files from a remote server 01:27 <@kanzure> if you hate those things then i recommend installing debian in a chroot on your android device 01:27 <@kanzure> possibly through lildeb or something else 01:27 < rigel> i havent even rooted this thing despite having it for almost a year and a half 01:27 < rigel> i wanted to not have to root it 01:27 <@kanzure> which model? 01:28 < rigel> gnex 01:28 <@kanzure> holy crap my phone is three years old. why am i using this? 01:30 -!- Juul [~Juul@50-0-83-116.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:53 < brownies> kanzure: i don't know 01:54 < brownies> kanzure: i think you'd need to middleman a cert authority in order to do anything meaningful? 01:54 <@kanzure> maybe nobody is using https on ezproxy? 01:55 <@kanzure> or maybe all ezproxy instances have a root cert?? 01:56 < nmz787> this is https https://login.ezproxy.rit.edu/login 01:56 < nmz787> i guess the next page (the journal) isn't 01:57 < nmz787> http://www.sciencedirect.com.ezproxy.rit.edu/science/article/pii/B0122267702028611 01:58 <@kanzure> try https://www.sciencedirect.com.ezproxy.rit.edu/science/article/pii/B0122267702028611 01:59 < nmz787> exproxy session cookie present 01:59 <@kanzure> not what i mean 01:59 <@kanzure> https://www.oclc.org/support/services/ezproxy/documentation/cfg/ssl/certopts.en.html 01:59 < nmz787> nope your link didn't work 02:00 < nmz787> (no in chrome inspector, there's a cookie for exproxy) 02:00 <@kanzure> it looks like they are doing self-signed certs, self-signed wildcard certs, CA-issued regular, and CA-issued wildcard 02:01 <@kanzure> it would be interesting to scan the list of ezproxy libraries to see if any are using a CA-issued wildcard cert. 02:01 -!- jrayhawk [~jrayhawk@nursie.omgwallhack.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:02 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: what would be the quickest way to scan https://raw.github.com/kanzure/ezproxy-urls/master/urls.txt to find which ones are paying for a CA-issued wildcard cert? 02:04 < jrayhawk> openssl s_client -connect login.ezproxy1.lib.asu.edu:443 -quiet -CApath /etc/ssl/certs/ 2>&1 | grep 'CN = \*' 02:05 < jrayhawk> grep -q if you just want the exit status 02:07 < jrayhawk> though most of those URLs aren't https, so i am not super sure what you're after 02:07 <@kanzure> i am just curious how most people are using ezproxy with https 02:08 <@kanzure> for instance, https://www.sciencedirect.com.ezproxy.rit.edu/science/article/pii/B0122267702028611 02:08 <@kanzure> depending on how ezproxy.rit.edu is configured that will work in a variety of different ways 02:08 <@kanzure> including "not at all" 02:09 <@kanzure> relevant documentation words https://www.oclc.org/support/services/ezproxy/documentation/cfg/ssl/certopts.en.html 02:11 <@kanzure> also.. it would be fun to sniff ezproxy http traffic for cookies. 02:16 < jrayhawk> oh i guess you'd want to track the exit status of the openssl command as well 02:16 < jrayhawk> eh, sleepy 02:17 <@kanzure> me too. good night. 02:19 -!- nostack [4a47ab92@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.71.171.146] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:19 < nostack> dude i want to b superman 02:19 < nostack> or like really fucking smart 02:20 < nostack> like that move limitles 02:20 < nostack> either way rly 02:32 < nmz787> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_capture_microdissection 02:32 < nmz787> I just watched the move Special 02:32 < nmz787> it was kinda the opposite of limitless 02:32 < nmz787> movie* 02:45 -!- nostack [4a47ab92@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.71.171.146] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:01 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:08 -!- Charlie [~quassel@74.63.212.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:27 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:31 -!- Charlie [~quassel@74.63.212.44] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:31 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:32 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:34 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:15 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@185.5.8.81] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:15 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@185.5.8.81] has quit [Changing host] 04:15 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:21 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:53 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:31 -!- undersco2 [~quassel@192.210.211.75] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:43 < superkuh> paperbot: http://pre.aps.org/abstract/PRE/v87/i4/e043104 05:43 < paperbot> error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/a91d6e207e04d7c45bca29dcd274fbb2.txt 06:30 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:07 -!- kajetan [~kmo@87-205-25-23.ip.netia.com.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:16 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:16 -!- helleshin [~talinck@69-61-156-24.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:17 -!- helleshin [~talinck@69-61-156-24.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:17 -!- qu-bit_ [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:24 -!- cpopell [~cpopell@pool-96-231-37-73.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:27 <@kanzure> "Based on testing to date, it looks like the merge branch merging in the BRL-CAD version of SCL to stepcode is ready to go live." 08:27 <@kanzure> https://github.com/stepcode/stepcode/pull/227 08:27 <@kanzure> that is a tremendously huge merge 08:28 <@kanzure> the u.s. military is serious business 08:29 <@kanzure> essentially they have merged all of their changes to step class library from the original NIST version into this currently-maintained version of step class library 08:30 <@kanzure> (because they had vendorized it for the longest time) 09:03 -!- FooQuuxman [~arik@c-98-215-254-55.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:17 -!- helleshin 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Quit] 11:38 -!- helleshin [~talinck@69-61-156-24.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:39 -!- radivis [~quassel@p5B2E604B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:40 -!- FooQuuxman [~arik@c-98-215-254-55.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:12 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-79-221.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:16 -!- FooQuuxman [~arik@c-98-215-254-55.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:20 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-79-221.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:22 <@kanzure> hackerspaces.org is blowing up 12:22 <@kanzure> they never figured out how to organize themselves 12:22 <@kanzure> i'm not sure why they are a group anyway 12:22 <@kanzure> it's nice that there's a way for different hackerspaces to communicate with each other 12:22 <@kanzure> but i don't see why they are calling for a foundation to be incorporated? 12:23 <@kanzure> an entire incorporated entity just to manage a mailing list ? 12:24 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-79-221.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:38 < ParahSail1n> i think that s thermoautotroph should not require H2 12:38 < ParahSail1n> CO and O2 should be adequate 12:39 < ParahSail1n> growth rate of anything the requires gas fixation's gonna be slow though 12:40 < jrayhawk> if they're hoping to expand operations, a financial umbrella for doing so would probably be nice. 12:42 <@kanzure> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 2:32 PM, Randall G. Arnold wrote: 12:42 <@kanzure> > In the case of Makerspaces there is no real product, which actually benefits 12:42 <@kanzure> > us. There is no corporate entity, really, to which we are beholden. On the 12:43 <@kanzure> > surface, though, that means the absence of a single guiding force that 12:43 <@kanzure> > identifies purpose. Some can say that in our world O'Reilly is or means to 12:43 <@kanzure> > be that force... but as noted, they have a financial agenda of their own 12:43 <@kanzure> > that may often get in the way of maker/hacker goals. 12:43 <@kanzure> haha... "there is no real product, which actually benefits us" what? 12:43 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: maybe, but at this point they are just being vague about what a foundation would do. 12:43 <@kanzure> the most specific thing they have mentioned is collective insurance bargaining. 12:49 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-79-221.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:51 -!- FooQuuxman [~arik@c-98-215-254-55.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:53 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: ok i told them it would be cool if they would organize to fund hacker activities (electronics, biology, whatever) in hackerspaces. maybe they will collectively organize around that idea. whatever. 13:10 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-249-105.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:15 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-249-105.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:25 -!- wizrobe [~userdi@c-76-23-254-105.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:26 -!- FooQuuxman [~arik@c-98-215-254-55.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:32 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03 -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-81-1-174.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:07 -!- augur [~augur@ip-64-134-41-137.public.wayport.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:20 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-146-142.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:30 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-146-142.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:41 -!- augur [~augur@ip-64-134-41-137.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:43 -!- augur [~augur@ip-64-134-41-137.public.wayport.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:56 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-170-78.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:07 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-170-78.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:32 -!- augur [~augur@ip-64-134-41-137.public.wayport.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38 -!- radivis [~quassel@p5B2E604B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-33.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:44 -!- makoLime [~mako@103-9-42-32.flip.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:46 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-98-14-144-138.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:51 -!- ielo [~ielo@cpc9-addl4-2-0-cust229.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:17 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21 -!- ielo [~ielo@cpc9-addl4-2-0-cust229.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:43 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-170-78.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:49 <@kanzure> an ok discussion about phantomjs/webkit/qt/nodejs architecture things: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/phantomjs/bNjRI0anpi0 16:52 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:53 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-170-78.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:56 <@kanzure> lesswrong public log: http://epi.ponzo.net:8080/?page=6115 16:56 <@kanzure> grab it before the lynch epitron 17:00 < ParahSail1n> ? 17:00 <@kanzure> *they lynch 17:01 <@kanzure> epitron used to show up in here once in a while. i hate his title bot. 17:03 <@kanzure> anyway, #lesswrong has a no logging policy 17:03 <@kanzure> and the point is that those are logs that you can download 17:06 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06 -!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-98-14-144-138.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:08 < ParahSail1n> they really are bronies i guess 17:10 <@kanzure> haha you thought i was kidding, that's cute. 17:12 -!- klafka_ [~klafka@cpe-98-14-144-138.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:17 -!- cpopell [~cpopell@pool-96-231-37-73.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:21 -!- _sol_ [~Sol@c-174-57-58-11.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:22 -!- _Sol_ [~Sol@c-174-57-58-11.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:24 -!- cpopell [~cpopell@pool-96-231-37-73.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:33 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46 -!- helleshin [~talinck@69-61-156-24.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:53 -!- kajetan [~kmo@87-205-25-23.ip.netia.com.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:05 -!- FooQuuxman [~arik@c-98-215-254-55.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:08 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-48-123.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:08 < eudoxia> oh no the logs are down 18:09 < eudoxia> and why would #lesswrong have a no logging policy? 18:09 < jrayhawk> peasants, pitchforks 18:12 < jrayhawk> more uncharitably, moving privilege beyond scrutiny 18:12 < jrayhawk> all the same thing, really 18:14 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-33.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26 < ParahSail1n> because they're weird and cultish? 18:27 < eudoxia> well my first guess was that they didn't want anyone recording the latin chanting when EY logged on 18:32 < ParahSail1n> expecting robin hanson to give a positive review to that meta-medicine startup simply because of in-group affiliation is a pretty good indicator 18:38 < rigel> god dammit, i need to start one of these weird pseudoscience cults 18:40 < ParahSail1n> have you considered bayesology? 18:51 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:52 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:52 -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:57 -!- klafka_ [~klafka@cpe-98-14-144-138.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:57 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-48-123.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:23 < brownies> meta-medicine? 19:23 <@kanzure> something about getting desperately ill people to pay them to contact experts 19:26 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:37 -!- ParahSail1n [~pwang@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:51 < makoLime> brownies, they do extensive research on your ailment and approach finding what is actually the best treatment available, where as a regular GP would only find you the best treatment they're aware of, which is often much less effective. 19:55 < brownies> huh 19:56 < brownies> how odd 19:56 < brownies> i always thought that's what a doctor already did 20:00 <@kanzure> no far from it 20:08 -!- klafka [~klafka@2604:2000:1021:8058:e05b:a5f3:5b83:a9f7] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:13 -!- klafka [~klafka@2604:2000:1021:8058:e05b:a5f3:5b83:a9f7] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:18 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Quit: the neuronal action potential is an electrical manipulation of reversible abrupt phase changes in the lipid bilayer] 20:27 -!- undersco2 [~quassel@192.210.211.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:29 -!- undersco2 [~quassel@192.210.211.75] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:38 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:55 <@kanzure> oh jeebus 20:55 <@kanzure> i was looking through my mailing list subscriptions and found this https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/slwaterflow 20:56 <@kanzure> seems to be aaronsw/guerilla open access things 20:58 <@kanzure> haha content liberation front 20:59 <@kanzure> oh weird they reference some of my 2008 emails 20:59 < rigel> i reject the characterization of medicine/medicine 20:59 < rigel> first, the US does not have "GPs" 21:00 < rigel> er 21:00 <@kanzure> wtf aaronsw did tor2web? 21:00 < yashgaroth> what about PCPs 21:00 < rigel> s|medicine/medicine|medicine/meta-medicine| 21:00 <@kanzure> that's lame, why did he have to be the one to write tor2web 21:00 < rigel> PCPs != GPs 21:01 < rigel> the implication is that GPs have not done a residency, merely an internship year. you can only do that in a few states these days 21:02 < rigel> there are plenty of PCPs that are lazy and do things like take drug company money or freebies 21:02 < rigel> there are also plenty of PCPs that will in fact do that research you mention 21:03 < rigel> and there are furthermore limits to evidence-based medicine, one of which is the aforementioned corrupting influence of drug companies on e.g. publication of studies 21:04 < rigel> an editorial decision to publish by Science or Nature often has as part of the calculation how much revenue the publisher will make in reprints. so, of course that biases things in favor of the Newest and Best (even if it's not actually best) 21:04 < rigel> pharma and device companies spend a lot of money on reprints 21:05 < yashgaroth> or you can just go with 'controversial' like the lancet 21:05 < rigel> the UK journals are not immune to this but some of them have been more willing to acknowledge it 21:06 < rigel> theres a recent plos article that tried to look at how much revenue journal publishers made from reprints 21:06 < rigel> BMJ and the Lancet, iirc, were the only ones to respond with data 21:07 < yashgaroth> huh 21:07 < rigel> i think that's in part because of the strong cultural influence of the NHS, at least up until it was recently, effectively cripped by Cameron et al 21:07 -!- Cat4D [425b8c22@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.91.140.34] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:27 -!- ParahSail1n [~pwang@99-25-200-252.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:27 -!- ParahSail1n [~pwang@99-25-200-252.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:27 -!- ParahSail1n [~pwang@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:29 < ParahSail1n> thats pretty cool http://www.corning.com/lifesciences/us_canada/en/whats_new/cell_culture_and_bioprocess/flowell_plate.aspx 21:31 < yashgaroth> the boys at corning have done it again 21:32 < ParahSail1n> i think they acquired that from BD 21:33 < yashgaroth> as long as they're priced competitively against 'get some poor undergrad to come in on weekends, inc.' 21:40 < ParahSail1n> i dont think any grad student trusts undergrads with cell culture media changes 21:41 < yashgaroth> maybe not cells finicky enough to require daily media replacement, true 21:41 < ParahSail1n> anything mammalian really 21:42 < yashgaroth> 293s are super forgiving if you can do sterile technique 21:43 < ParahSail1n> "if you can do sterile technique" is what i'm getting at 21:44 < yashgaroth> oh heh yeah 21:44 < ParahSail1n> when contamination will set you back 4-6 months you do all the media changes yourself 21:46 < yashgaroth> all my work with them has been in industry so I haven't become inured to primary cells and ESCs and all that fun 21:47 < ParahSail1n> where contamination does not follow matter transmission rules, but simple line of sight through sealed, but transparent containers 21:47 < ParahSail1n> what you do? 21:47 < yashgaroth> montagnier was right, dna can teleport! 21:47 < yashgaroth> me, I do/did 293 and cho cells for protein production 21:48 < yashgaroth> little bit with cancer cell lines, but they're pretty hardy too 21:48 < yashgaroth> and always an infinite supply of more cells 21:50 < yashgaroth> though I never lost a flask to contamination, and we didn't even get to use pen/strep 21:50 < ParahSail1n> i got run out of a collaborating lab because my cells looked funny (were not very attachy) and other people in the lab were having myco problems 21:50 < ParahSail1n> lava tag magic contamination rules are real 21:51 < ParahSail1n> if contaminated flask touches rack, germs get conducted into all other flasks 21:52 < yashgaroth> and yet I worked in a place where half the people didn't use gloves in the hood 21:52 < ParahSail1n> wow, seriously? 21:52 < yashgaroth> yyyup 21:53 < yashgaroth> for the laminar air flow is magic, you see 21:53 < yashgaroth> these were PhDs too 21:55 < ParahSail1n> id like to start playing with those cells again 21:55 < yashgaroth> what kind were they? 22:03 < ParahSail1n> HepG2 22:03 < ParahSail1n> i had them growing without serum 22:04 < yashgaroth> like, you weaned them off? that'd explain the detaching pretty handily 22:06 < ParahSail1n> yeah i was still in the process of weaning 22:07 < ParahSail1n> started them in opti-mem (no serum) and they were pretty sticky then 22:07 < ParahSail1n> weaned them from opti-mem into regular dmem 22:09 < yashgaroth> I wonder how much money biotech as a whole would've saved if mad cow never existed 22:09 < ParahSail1n> i wasnt using pen/strep either 22:10 < yashgaroth> pen/strep is for the weak 22:10 < ParahSail1n> without serum to buffer that stuff, it probably would have killed cells 22:11 < ParahSail1n> mad cow, how so? 22:11 < yashgaroth> all the old enzymes sourced from various parts of cows are a huge no-no for manufacturing nowadays 22:11 < yashgaroth> so instead of pancreatic rnase or pepsin, you gotta use the expensive recombinant shit for production 22:12 < ParahSail1n> that sucks 22:12 < yashgaroth> not to mention serum-free media for your cell lines 22:13 < ParahSail1n> well my cell lines worked perfectly well with fbs, i was just using medium that normally one would need fbs for cells to survive in 22:13 < ParahSail1n> but yeah, fancy serum free media is expensive 22:14 < yashgaroth> especially when you're doing a 20,000 liter batch of cells to make avastin, or whatever 22:15 < ParahSail1n> so when they make avastin, what medium do they grow the cells in? 22:15 < ParahSail1n> hamster ovary cells dont need serum, right? 22:16 < yashgaroth> not anymore with the new serum-independent lines, but I bet they're a little sickly jonesing for dat sweet serum 22:18 < ParahSail1n> what new serum independent lines do they have? 22:20 < yashgaroth> I dunno the names, but there's probably several at this point 22:25 < yashgaroth> ah yeah we had DG44 and S lines, those were both serum-free 22:26 < yashgaroth> or maybe those weren't serum-free and we had to wean them, well whatever I never had to use FBS 22:33 -!- u-metacognition [~u----meta@99-7-58-96.lightspeed.davlca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:48 <@kanzure> http://www.reddit.com/r/ReverseEngineering/comments/1c3gc5/the_first_level_of_super_mario_bros_is_easy_with/ 22:48 <@kanzure> https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tom7/mario/mario.pdf 23:22 -!- ArmilusDajjal [~safitan@75-105-12-23.cust.wildblue.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:43 -!- strages_home [~strages@98.67.161.107] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:44 -!- Cat4D [425b8c22@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.91.140.34] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:59 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] --- Log closed Sun Apr 14 00:00:57 2013