--- Log opened Sun Apr 14 00:00:57 2013
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10:07 <@kanzure> "21 augur DIY Bio: Open hardware meets open science  William Beaufoy, London BioHackers"
10:07 <@kanzure> "24 AprAltmetrics: Can we drop the “alternative”?   Iain Hrynaszkiewicz, F1000"
10:07 <@kanzure> "22 May[TBC] HackyourPhDon't                                   Vincent Adams, UCL"
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10:25 <@kanzure> http://www.debian.org/vote/2013/platforms/lucas
10:25 <@kanzure> hmm http://udd.debian.org/
10:25 <@kanzure> " wrote a packaging tutorial (packaging-tutorial package) to provide a more accessible documentation for prospective maintainers. I used it to teach Debian packaging on a few occasions, and it has been translated into French, German and Spanish. It is also a nice way to advocate good practices, such as packaging with dh (slide 26), or first steps to get involved in Debian (get involved in teams / adopt existing packages, but not package more ...
10:25 <@kanzure> ... useless software when better alternatives already exist in Debian; slide 42)"
10:27 <@kanzure> hm "Also, I see two ways to work against the shortage of reviewing manpower: (1) finally create personal packages archives, so that waiting for reviews becomes slightly less painful; (2) ask non-DD to review packages in a social website manner (that's also a very nice way to learn)."
10:27 <@kanzure> "We should continue to push for collaborative and team maintenance. We should also consider reducing package ownership. While having maintainers that feel very responsible about packages (and are often real experts of those packages) is an important strength of Debian, maintainers should think in terms of packages I currently take care of inside Debian rather than packages I own inside Debian."
10:31 <@kanzure> http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/blog/?p=746 "Half of the package maintainers are not DDs or DMs" i think this is to be expected though
10:44 <@kanzure> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155054.msg1643833 "For those who don't know me, I'm Hal Finney. I got my start in crypto working on an early version of PGP, working closely with Phil Zimmermann. When Phil decided to start PGP Corporation, I was one of the first hires. I would work on PGP until my retirement. At the same time, I got involved with the Cypherpunks. I ran the first cryptographically based anonymous remailer, among other ...
10:44 <@kanzure> ... activities."
10:44 <@kanzure> "When Satoshi announced the first release of the software, I grabbed it right away. I think I was the first person besides Satoshi to run bitcoin. I mined block 70-something, and I was the recipient of the first bitcoin transaction, when Satoshi sent ten coins to me as a test. I carried on an email conversation with Satoshi over the next few days, mostly me reporting bugs and him fixing them."
10:44 <@kanzure> huh i didn't know hal had that sort of involvement
10:46 <@kanzure> "Speaking of heirs, I got a surprise in 2009, when I was suddenly diagnosed with a fatal disease. .. My body began to fail. I slurred my speech, lost strength in my hands, and my legs were slow to recover. In August, 2009, I was given the diagnosis of ALS, also called Lou Gehrig's disease, after the famous baseball player who got it. Today, I am essentially paralyzed. I am fed through a tube, and my breathing is assisted through another tube. ...
10:46 <@kanzure> ... I operate the computer using a commercial eyetracker system. It also has a speech synthesizer, so this is my voice now. I spend all day in my power wheelchair. I worked up an interface using an arduino so that I can adjust my wheelchair's position using my eyes."
10:47 < balrog> has anyone got anywhere with DIY SEM/FIB stuff?
10:48 <@kanzure> there's been some small projects on that front but nobody has stuck around long enough to "see it through" (i.e. most people seem to just release a few test images and then die)
10:48 < balrog> hrm I see :/
10:48 <@kanzure> er also i mean just SEM i haven't seen anyone doing DIY FIB stuff.
10:48 < balrog> FIB is more useful
10:48 <@kanzure> i think nmz787 has recently been poking at FIB things so maybe bug him
10:49 <@kanzure> wow i seem to have some 2009 emails from hal when he announced his diagnosis
11:10 <@kanzure> someone with als writing about the experience http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/jan/14/night/?pagination=false
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12:04 < augur> kanzure: ?
12:05 <@kanzure> augur: what?
12:05 < augur> you pinged me somehow?
12:06 <@kanzure> 2013-04-14.log:10:07 <@kanzure> "21 augur DIY Bio: Open hardware meets open science  William Beaufoy, London BioHackers"
12:06 < augur> yeah
12:06 < augur> what is that
12:06 <@kanzure> wrong language
12:06 <@kanzure> either they made a typo or your name means a month in some other language
12:07 < augur> oh ok
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13:17 <@kanzure> nurbs intersection algorithm things https://github.com/kanzure/esolid
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16:25 <@kanzure> "When Pieter created a pull request with your ECDSA optimizations (work which he has since continued and achieved something like a 4x speedup over OpenSSL) I quipped that we were truly in the future: we have a decenteralized cryptocurrency, and one of its developers exists in brain-in-a-jar state."
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16:31 <@kanzure> "For those who haven't made the connection the "Finney Attack" commonly referenced on this forum is named after the OP who first theorized this double spend attack vector." https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Double-spending#Finney_attack
16:31 <@kanzure> honey: hi
16:41 < honey> hi.. sorry i was afk.
16:42 <@kanzure> what brings you here?
16:42 < honey> i googled someone who called ppl in another chan an asshole and this chan was listed. lol
16:42 < honey> funny thing.. this is the second time today i have read about attack vectors.
16:42 < honey> so now.. im reading.
16:43 <@kanzure> which attack vectors?
16:43 <@kanzure> oh nevermind.
16:43 <@kanzure> you probably mean bitcoins. i regret pasting that.
16:44 < honey> actually something on linux.. i havent done much keeping up today actually cause im sick.
16:44 < honey> i dont dabble in bitcoins.. but my associates do.
16:44 <@kanzure> i was just mentioning the fact that hal had some involvement, which i didn't know before today.
16:45 < honey> i only saw it listed in the topic chan today.
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17:24 < ParahSail1n> paperbot, http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140700709002011
17:24 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Ice%20slurry%20production%20using%20supercooling%20phenomenon.pdf
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17:31 <@kanzure> if the supreme court rules in favor of human gene patents, then we should organize a ncbi.nih.gov downloading/backup/mirroring party
17:34 < superkuh> Inform the archive team. They have software infrastructure.
17:34 < superkuh> (in addition)
17:34 <@kanzure> oh good point, they would probably be interested
17:35 <@kanzure> erm i mean ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
17:37 <@kanzure> there's a lot of data on their servers. i'm not sure which parts should be selected for priority mirroring.
17:37 <@kanzure> definitely genebank
17:38 <@kanzure> *genbank
17:38 <@kanzure> "GenBank ® is the NIH genetic sequence database, an annotated collection of all publicly available DNA sequences (Nucleic Acids Research, 2013 Jan;41(D1):D36-42).  GenBank is part of the International Nucleotide Sequence Database Collaboration , which comprises the DNA DataBank of Japan (DDBJ), the European Molecular Biology Laboratory (EMBL), and GenBank at NCBI. These three organizations exchange data on a daily basis."
17:38 <@kanzure> "The GenBank database is designed to provide and encourage access within the scientific community to the most up to date and comprehensive DNA sequence information. Therefore, NCBI places no restrictions on the use or distribution of the GenBank data. However, some submitters may claim patent, copyright, or other intellectual property rights in all or a portion of the data they have submitted. NCBI is not in a position to assess the validity ...
17:38 <@kanzure> ... of such claims, and therefore cannot provide comment or unrestricted permission concerning the use, copying, or distribution of the information contained in GenBank."
17:39 < ParahSail1n> coy didnt gimme any reads :(
17:39 < ParahSail1n> cory
17:39 <@fenn> you can't patent data
17:40 <@kanzure> that's not true, in many cases you can sneak data into patents
17:41 <@kanzure> and in many cases you can successfully defend your patent in future litigation
17:42 <@kanzure> "Therefore, NCBI itself places no restrictions on the use or distribution of the data contained therein. Nor do we accept data when the submitter has requested restrictions on reuse or redistribution." well that's nice.
17:43 <@kanzure> i wonder how frequent that is.. how many of the submissions to ncbi are encumbered by third party claims?
17:43 <@kanzure> since it's not recorded in ncbi, it seems a little difficult to collect this data.
17:46 <@kanzure> actually, wtf ncbi
17:46 <@kanzure> this means that none of this data is explicitly-permissively licensed
17:57 < rigel> the government is not going to make claims or even aggressively advocate for anything
17:58 < rigel> they still allow CPT codes to be incorporated-by-reference as a required standard for payment by CMS
17:58 < rigel> when that is claimed as a copyrighted system
17:59 < rigel> (even though it might not actually be copyrightable given the case law on the subject
17:59 < rigel> this is why interoperability efforts for EMR/EHRs will fail
18:01 <@kanzure> i am not sufficiently indoctrinated into medschoolspeak
18:01 <@kanzure> EMR/EHRs.. got that one. CMS/CPT not so much.
18:02 <@kanzure> content management shitters, content police tazing
18:02 < rigel> CMS is Center for Medicare Services
18:03 < rigel> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centers_for_Medicare_and_Medicaid_Services
18:03 < rigel> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_Procedural_Terminology
18:03 < rigel> noone in med school actually knows shit about this stuff either
18:04 < rigel> i only started going down the rabbit hole because of some conversations with an OpenEMR developer
18:04 < rigel> but the standards, terms, etc, that shit is important
18:05 < rigel> relevant caselaw: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_v._Rural
18:06 < juri_> uh oh.
18:08 < juri_> the varying coding systems being copyrighted is quite annoying.
18:09 < rigel> well, ICD-9 and 10 are freely lcensable iirc
18:09 < juri_> that doesn't make them easy to ship with open source softwares.
18:09 < rigel> CPT require licensing for software vendors who want to produce, say, a system that is meaningful use compliant
18:09 < rigel> yep
18:11 < rigel> so basically, the AMA makes a ton of money on EMRs and EHRs because from what i'm told, they charge a per-seat license for the coding system, regardless of how many users actually need to interact with the billing system
18:12 < rigel> incidentally, "publications" (presumably, things like CPT licensing as well) make up like 60% of the AMA's revenue
18:13 < rigel> they make another, smaller buttload of cash by selling physicians' info to marketing middlement like IMS health, which allows pharma reps to track prescribing data on individual physicians, to see who can be influenced by this or that marketing scheme
18:13 <@kanzure> hooray brlcad has nurbs surface-surface intersection magic now
18:13 <@kanzure> http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Phoenix/GSoc2012/Reports
18:13 <@kanzure> http://www.mail-archive.com/brlcad-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg02110.html
18:14 < rigel> at what point did everyone's eyes glaze over there?
18:14 < rigel> just curious
18:14 <@kanzure> well i have been reading math about non-uniform bezier curves for a few hours, so i would say about six hours ago
18:14 < brownies> why are you reading that
18:15 <@kanzure> because i care about cad things?
18:15 <@kanzure> also because i've spent a lot of time over the years implementing nurbs surface-surface intersection algorithms
18:15 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/lolcad/tree/esolid/esolid.py
18:16 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/lolcad/tree/lolcad.py
18:16 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/lolcad/tree/nurbs.py
18:16 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/cad/
18:16 <@kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/esolid
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18:19 < ParahSail1n> non-uniform beziers are just cubic polynomials?
18:20 <@kanzure> non-uniform rational basis splines
18:20 <@kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NURBS
18:21 <@kanzure> it's the basic representation that most proprietary cad vendors use for modeling and intersection operations
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18:33 < brownies> what problem are you trying to solve?
18:33 <@kanzure> intersection of curved surfaces
18:34 <@kanzure> if you mean more generally then the problem is blah blah blah open source software for cad and hardware and something about shaving yaks
18:40 <@kanzure> jrayhawk: what would be the most sane way to setup a git-svn mirror of brlcad?
18:44 < ParahSail1n> wow nurbs intersection is difficult http://tom.cs.byu.edu/~tom/papers/tspline.pdf
18:45 <@kanzure> it's also annoying because most people who implement nurbs intersection are also poor at writing quality software
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18:46 <@kanzure> i recommend http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/cad/the-nurbs-book.pdf
18:50 < ParahSail1n> i thought they just ruled that you can't patent maths? http://www.google.com/patents/US7274364
18:50 <@kanzure> i don't think there are any penalties at the patent office for a clerk patenting unpatentable things
19:00 < jrayhawk> kanzure: I don't actually have a lot of experience with git-svn; I know the Postgres project maintained an automated gateway for a long time; you might ask them if they have useful advice.
19:06 <@kanzure> ah they have http://brlcad.org/brlcad.git
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19:07 <@kanzure> what a strangely long commit message on brlcad r53942 http://www.mail-archive.com/brlcad-commits@lists.sourceforge.net/msg20482.html
19:08 <@kanzure> http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad?view=revision&revision=53942
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19:10 <@kanzure> also r54137 (fc29475c7cf1226326a5834a9f56d91e91588df3) has excess newlines in the commit message.
19:13 <@kanzure> "re-re-revert to r54338 before I started causing damage.  apparently two different versions of opennurbs came out one month after the other, both labeled as v5.0 and the latter removing substantial functionality (3 functions) that we utilize." wtf
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20:35 <@kanzure> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/04/will-the-supreme-court-end-human-gene-patents-after-three-decades/
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20:35 <@kanzure> what "The American Civil Liberties Union estimates that more than 40 percent of genes are now patented. "
20:35 <@kanzure> i guess someone bothered to do that licensing analysis i mentioned earlier?
20:36 <@kanzure> http://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech-technology-and-liberty-womens-rights/voices-human-gene-patents-its-time-free-our
20:37 <@kanzure> "On April 15th, there is a chance for the United States Supreme Court to correct this genetic injustice and remove the limitations to our DNA. The court is reviewing Association of Molecular Pathologists (AMP) v. Myriad Genetics, in which a federal court ruled last year that human genes can be patented. Myriad Genetics received patents in the 1990s for the exclusive right to examine all isolated DNA that contains the BRCA1 and BRCA2 genes."
20:38 <@kanzure> i would be friendlier to schizophrenics in here if they had creative or plausible paranoid delusions about the bayh-dole act.
20:41 < brownies> do many schizophrenics wander through?
20:42 <@kanzure> all the time. there's a lot of them that are banned.
20:42 <@kanzure> "Myriad's genes were originally invalidated by a trial court judge in 2010. But his ruling was overturned on appeal in a 2-1 vote. The appeals court majority held that the process of removing DNA from the body and isolating a BRCA gene from the rest of a patient's genetic material effectively creates a new "composition of matter" that is eligible for patent protection."
20:43 <@kanzure> ""Although isolated DNA is removed from its native cellular and chromosomal environment, it has also been manipulated chemically so as to produce a molecule that is markedly different from that which exists in the body," wrote Judge Alan Lourie for the court's majority. In his view, that difference was sufficient to merit a patent for Myriad."
20:47 <@kanzure> http://www.scotusblog.com/2013/02/the-human-genes-case-made-simple/
20:51 <@kanzure> fenn: it seems there was a 1790 and 1793 "patent act" passed in congress that outlines the patent system better than the joke in the constitution.
20:52 <@kanzure> whaat "In 1832 a new act expanded the category of potential patentees to cover all resident aliens who had declared an intention to become citizens of the United States, provided however, that any patents granted to the class of patentee become void if they did not work the invention publicly in the United States within one year of grant."
20:57 <@kanzure> "In 1930, the Plant Patent Act provided for the possibility of patent protection for asexually reproduced plants."
21:00 <@kanzure> "1984: Possibility of extending patent term to compensate for delay in securing marketing authority from FDA to sell new drugs for humans. (Waxman Hatch Amendments) [44] 35 USC 156"
21:00 <@kanzure> "Protection from finding of obviousness over work of co-employees etc. 35 USC 103 (c)." hmm
21:05 < rigel> yeah
21:06 < rigel> iirc, the current patent protection for e.g. varieties of biological organisms, is derived from a case having to do with roses
21:07 < strangewarp> A little fiction outlining my prediction: "There is nothing in the Constitution preventing gene patents," Justice Scalia wrote of the decision, echoing the theme running through his rulings on net neutrality, global warming, and gay marriage[...]
21:09 < rigel> i actually went to the most recent federal court hearings this summer on the myriad case when it was re-heard in light of a SCOTUS decision on....shit, cant remember
21:09 < rigel> it was remanded because of some other case that was at least marginally sane
21:17 <@kanzure> rigel: was it Mayo v. Prometheus?
21:17 <@kanzure> that was the one about diagnostic tests or something
21:17 <@kanzure> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/03/supreme-court-orders-appeals-court-to-reconsider-gene-patents/
21:19 < rigel> yes
21:19 < rigel> prometheus
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21:55 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022113900803413
21:55 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Direct%20synthesis%20of%20liquid-phase%20dioxygen%20difluoride.txt
21:56 <@kanzure> bah
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22:08 <@kanzure> amazon architecture things https://plus.google.com/112678702228711889851/posts/eVeouesvaVX
22:09 <@kanzure> although i'm pretty sure these anecdotes were released earlier (about bezos mandating all teams to only communicate with each other over the network)
22:10 <@kanzure> "if you have hundreds of services, and your code MUST communicate with other groups' code via these services, then you won't be able to find any of them without a service-discovery mechanism. And you can't have that without a service registration mechanism, which itself is another service. So Amazon has a universal service registry where you can find out reflectively (programmatically) about every service, what its APIs are, and also whether ...
22:11 <@kanzure> ... it is currently up, and where."
22:11 <@kanzure> does that mean wsdl/uddi? surely they are using something more sane?
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22:24 <@kanzure> oh wait this was from 2011. that's why it sounds familiar.
22:56 < brownies> i think yegge discussed it in a post a while back
22:56 <@kanzure> i'm not even sure why i ended up reading that today
22:57 < brownies> he probably made a lovely metaphor to a goldfish or something
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23:16 < gnusha_> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/paperbot/commit/?id=960e8632 Bryan Bishop: use a random title if title extraction fails
23:16 < gnusha_> paperbot: reload papers
23:16 <@kanzure> fff
23:16 <@kanzure> paperbot: reload papers
23:16 < paperbot> kanzure: <module 'papers' from '/srv/ikiwiki/paperbot/modules/papers.py'> (version: 2013-04-15 06:16:34)
23:17 <@kanzure> ah much better
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23:50 <@kanzure> "You generate radio waves with devices by producing electromagnetic radiation. The "sale" of spectrum implies that the government owns what is on the exact same scale as visible light, which is completely insane."
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--- Log closed Mon Apr 15 00:00:58 2013