--- Log opened Thu Jun 06 00:00:48 2013
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00:20 < kanzure> "Objections to genetic modification typically emerge over the topic of GM crop plants or livestock. But the Glowing Plant Project has raised concerns from anti-GM activists and industry watchdogs alike. The ETC Group, an environmental organization that opposes all GM organisms, has even tried to launch its own campaign to stop the Kickstarter project."
00:20 < kanzure> http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/35670/title/Speaking-of-Science/
00:21 < kanzure> "“We are extremely concerned that the USDA is not planning to regulate the first-ever field release of an organism engineered through synthetic biology technologies. . . . We urge the USDA to put a halt to this risky, unregulated pursuit,” the groups wrote in a letter to the US Department of Agriculture in April."
00:21 < kanzure> "The apparent lack of regulatory oversight concerns Todd Kuiken, who studies the ethical implications of DIY biology at the Washington, D.C., think tank, the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. He told Nature that while the Glowing Plant Project does not seem especially risky, the regulatory precedents could prove more problematic with riskier projects in the future."
00:21 < kanzure> god damn it todd
00:46 < strangewarp> sort of wondering what Todd's endgame is, here
00:47 < kanzure> more government funding for himself
00:51 < strangewarp> ah
01:14 < fenn> the whole "regulatory precedent" thing is bogus, since you can already buy genetically modified pet fish http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GloFish
01:15 < kanzure> i've met todd often at these diybio events. i don't know why jason is so complacent about todd.
01:15 < kanzure> "don't worry about todd, he's a friendly".. yeah right. then why has he never shown any evidence of this.
01:16 < fenn> huh. "The definitive environmental risk assessment was made by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), which has jurisdiction over all genetically modified animals, including fluorescent zebra fish, since they consider the inserted gene to be a drug."
01:16 < fenn> god i hate this world
01:16 < kanzure> pretty awful
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02:48 < nmz787_> openAccess college chem courses http://learn.uci.edu/openedweek/opchem.html
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03:03 < DonnchaC_> paperbot: http://rsi.aip.org/resource/1/rsinak/v4/i7/p391_s1
03:03 < paperbot> error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/A%20Vertical%2C%20Vacuum%2C%20SplitTube%2C%20GraphiteResistance%20Furnace.pdf
03:05 < DonnchaC_> Hmm, downloaded fine. Looks the link didn't enocde properly
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03:06 < DonnchaC> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/A Vertical, Vacuum, Split‐Tube, Graphite‐Resistance Furnace.pdf The hyphen was not in the URL provided by paperbot
03:09 < archels`> .u ‐
03:09 < yoleaux> U+2010 HYPHEN [Pd] (‐)
03:09 < archels`> doing the right thing would be adding this on the issue tracker [and submitting a patch]
03:11 < DonnchaC> Thanks for the reminder I'll do that in a few minutes :)
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07:49 < JayDugger> kanzure, fenn--what do you two suggest for keeping up-to-date with the Glowing Plant controversy?
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07:49 < kanzure> probably just my complaints and hate mail
07:50 < brownies> what's the ETA to glowing cats now? 1 year?
07:50 < kanzure> my complaints anticipated that news article by a whole week or something
07:50 < JayDugger> :) I don't think that's going to reassure my wife, who donated.
07:50 < kanzure> so i'm hipster or something
07:50 < kanzure> JayDugger: oh, well, i just don't really like the people from the project
07:51 < kanzure> JayDugger: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/oscillator/2013/06/03/glowing-futures/
07:51 < JayDugger> Your complaints, your hate mail, and a little salt then should keep us up to speed. :)
07:52 < kanzure> street salt?
07:52 < kanzure> they are calling it lil' salt now?
07:52 < JayDugger> I don't get the reference. I meant taking your rants and hate mail with a little salt.
07:52 < kanzure> i think that article is a good outline of my rants
07:53 < kanzure> i am not completely sure but i think that author was either reading ##hplusroadmap logs and making an article out of it, or just really really thoughtful
07:53 < brownies> link to article?
07:53 < kanzure> sigh. it was two seconds ago! http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/oscillator/2013/06/03/glowing-futures/
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07:58 < JayDugger> My gosh...intelligent and civil comments? Did I eat LSD for breakfast by mistake?
07:58 < kanzure> just cheerios
08:01 < brownies> "Could genetically modified plants be open source"
08:02 < kanzure> the problem was that they didn't actually want commercial use. which makes them anti-open-source.
08:02 < kanzure> but then antony repented on that point
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08:02 < kanzure> i just don't know why he keeps insisting on using the "genome compiler inc." software
08:04 < brownies> what's so good/bad about it?
08:04 < kanzure> well, for one it's not a fucking compiler
08:04 < kanzure> and they are liars
08:04 < kanzure> two, it's proprietary
08:04 < kanzure> and three, it's adobe air
08:04 < JayDugger> Really? Adobe air?
08:04 < JayDugger> I didn't know that...
08:05 < kanzure> yeh these guys are fairly manipulative
08:09 < brownies> that article is pretty insightful.
08:09 < brownies> she doesn't get to the real crux of it until near the end, but... damn. makes me glad i didn't fund them on kickstarter.
08:09 < kanzure> you mean all your talk about glowpants is just a bunch of talk?
08:11 < brownies> me? i only want glowing cats.
08:11 < brownies> oh, glowing *pants*? i guess that could be a nice product, but do you really need to bioengineer pants ?
08:12 < kanzure> it requires the best science available, so yes
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08:42 < kanzure> http://news.dice.com/2013/06/06/openworm-wriggles-onto-your-screen/
08:42 < kanzure> "In recent films, like Transformers, CGI Graphics are astonishingly realistic looking. It probably wouldn’t be too hard to bring that kind of quality to the OpenWorm project, though it wouldn’t help with its goal. OpenWorm is trying to understand the reality of nematodes and displaying them realistically probably wouldn’t contribute much. Besides which, what does a 1-mm long worm really look like?"
08:42 < kanzure> well we can use these devices called microscopes
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09:25 < kanzure> "My name is Alexander Murer, I'm one of the founders of the biohackerspace in Graz, Austria, Europe"
09:25 < kanzure> hmm why do i not have this hackerspace in my superstalklog
09:25 < kanzure> "I found your presentation about dna synthesizer online and was wondering if you could give us further technical informations about them.
09:26 < kanzure> We have quite good technicans with us, developping a thermocycler, bioreactor and 3d bioprinter right now and were thinking about developping an open source dna synthesizer, but we arent exactly sure if there are some subtletes. The big part seems to be to mix several liquids together, but do you maybe know what the "reaction chamber" or whatever it is should look like? Are the starter molecules for the dna strand linked to a surface or is it ...
09:26 < kanzure> ... all liquid?"
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12:41 < ParahSailin> paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/anie.201300680/pdf
12:41 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/418dc93847ee3f9486445cbbdb259a95.txt
12:46 < ParahSailin> wow nice cache here http://libgen.org/
12:46 < ParahSailin> paperbot: http://libgen.org/scimag5/10.1002/anie.201300680.pdf
12:46 < kanzure> ah good libgen.org is back. for a while i was only using libgen.net.
12:46 < kanzure> "Search in DOI (e.g. 10.1063/1.529338) OR Author+Article, if file not found - redirect to sci-hub.org"
12:47 < kanzure> 1. Public OCR in Library Genesis, discussion: flibusta, genofond
12:47 < kanzure> http://flibusta.net/node/193940
12:47 < kanzure> http://genofond.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6836&start=250
12:47 < ParahSailin> http://libgen.org/scimag/?s=10.1002%2Fanie.201300680
12:47 < kanzure> http://libgen.org/scimag/
12:48 < ParahSailin> i think sci-hub might automatically download stuff to libgen.org and update metadata there
12:48 < kanzure> i doubt it. all sci-hub requests go to libgen?
12:48 < kanzure> would be easy to test
12:48 < ParahSailin> i found this url after putting that paper in sci-hub
12:48 < kanzure> was it on libgen before?
12:49 < ParahSailin> should test that
12:51 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/1efd1920760b882bd4ca5e3b544f3ed3.pdf
12:53 < kanzure> good job paprebot
12:53 < kanzure> *paperbot
12:53 < kanzure> it eventually got it :)
12:55 < ParahSailin> libgen pretty slow
12:55 < kanzure> we should really mirror it
13:03 < ParahSailin> you're right, scihub does not upload to libgen, but it does do a pdf cache http://sci-hub.org/pdfcache/25b43e6544380207639c4485a8474fcf.pdf
13:11 < archels`> .title http://youtu.be/fzB1EcocAF8?t=3m30s
13:11 < yoleaux> Regina Dugan at D11 2013 - YouTube
13:11 < archels`> authentication via tattoos and pills
13:12 < ParahSailin> that li-s-p battery actually looks doable
13:16 < ParahSailin> crap, but they dont say anything about the resistivity of the electrolyte
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13:23 < nmz787_> kanzure: you're not hipster, you're clairvoyant
13:23 < nmz787_> bath salt
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13:30 < nmz787_> hrmm, the word oscillator at the top of that article made me think it might mention blinking glowing plants, but it mentioned nothing like that
13:30 < nmz787_> I guess that's the blogger's handle?
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14:06 < kanzure> .title http://lists.randombit.net/pipermail/cryptography/2013-June/004364.html
14:06 < yoleaux> [cryptography] Looking for earlier proof: no secure channel without previous secure channel
14:06 < kanzure> "I am currently doing a write-up that dives into some of the more formal aspects of authentication. In particular, I am wondering when exactly it was formally proved that two entities A and B cannot establish a secure channel between them without such a secure channel having been available to them at a previous point in time."
14:07 < kanzure> i replied here http://lists.randombit.net/pipermail/cryptography/2013-June/004372.html where i wrote that i figured that the security of the new channel is probably bounded by the security (erm, privacy?) of the original channel
14:09 < kanzure> hrm i wonder about establishing a new channel by combining bits transmitted through multiple other less-secure channels. i guess that's relying on those less-probably-private channels to be less-private for different reasons.
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14:16 < kanzure> ha ha ha
14:16 < kanzure> "With libfaketime you can tell a process that the current time is something different from the machine's system clock. This fake time setting affects not only the functions directly related to reading the system time, but also file timestamps such as modification times. With libfaketime you can test how a program will respond when it is running in the future or in a different timezone without having to change your machine's system clock. ...
14:16 < kanzure> ... Timezone testing can be useful for network applications where a certificate may have already expired in a given timezone but might still work in your local environment."
14:16 < kanzure> "libfaketime works as a preload library. When you want to use it, you set the LD_PRELOAD environment variable to include the shared library when you execute a program. For example, when running the date program with LD_PRELOAD set, the machine's dynamic linker will load the libfaketime library into the new process, and by loading libfaketime, certain functions will be mapped into the libfaketime library instead of using your system functions ...
14:16 < kanzure> ... directly. libfaketime cannot be used with statically linked or setuid programs, because LD_PRELOAD is not available to such programs."
14:16 < kanzure> sounds good to me: "With libfaketime you can test how a program will respond when it is running in the future"
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14:22 < kanzure> .title http://portlabpdx.org/wiki/index.php?title=Projects
14:22 < yoleaux> Projects - Portlab Wiki
14:28 < nmz787_> paperbot: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=223872&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fiel1%2F49%2F5848%2F00223872
14:28 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/adfd64026d9cf7deb80c5d28895aeb96.txt
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14:30 < nmz787_> http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Security%20Architectures%20Using%20Formal%20Methods.pdf
14:31 < nmz787_> hrmm, so my pdf uploader bookmarklet wouldn't work for that
14:31 < nmz787_> it loaded the pdf in an iframe or something
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15:00 < ParahSailin> kanzure: actually i think sci-hub does upload to libgen
15:00 < kanzure> evidence?
15:00 < kanzure> would be p. cool
15:01 < ParahSailin> because the one paper i tested, within thelast 3 hours it ended up being on libgen
15:01 < kanzure> hm.
15:02 < ParahSailin> its not instantaneous
15:18 < ParahSailin> took <13 min for this http://libgen.org/scimag/?s=10.1002%2Fanie.201303067 to get into libgen after i grabbed it in sci-hub
15:18 < kanzure> and it wasn't on libgen first?
15:18 < ParahSailin> right
15:19 < kanzure> damn we might have someone here who actually values his science
15:19 < ParahSailin> russians are smart
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16:11 < kanzure> "The ETG Group has launched a ‘KickStopper’ campaign to directly challenge the ‘Glowing Plants’ Kickstarter project which is attempting to make and distribute glowing genetically modified plants using synthetic biology
16:11 < kanzure> oh brother. kickstopper. -_-
16:11 < kanzure> "The popular crowdfunding site Kickstarter.com is prepared to hand hundreds of thousands of dollars to a controversial project for the widespread  and unregulated  distribution of over half a million extreme-bioengineered seeds
16:12 < kanzure> Read more: http://www.motherearthnews.com/nature-and-environment/synthetic-biology-kickstarter-campaign-zwfz1306zkin.aspx#ixzz2VTrMzfGB"
16:12 < kanzure> fucking javascript fuck you
16:12 < kanzure> "extreme-bioengineered".. man, i wonder what would happen if they saw an actual pathway.
16:12 < kanzure> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/kickstopper-stopping-syn-bio-pollution
16:13 < kanzure> "Those guidelines currently forbid Kickstarter from funding " hah
16:13 < kanzure> fearmongering at its best "The petition through Avaaz.org has gathered more than 7,000 signatures in 7 days and signatures continue to pour in.
16:15 < kanzure> man these guys have always been annoying
16:15 < kanzure> how would we get rid of them?
16:17 < kanzure> "We wrote to Kickstarter at length to ask them to de-list the Glowing Plants project . They sent us a dismissive one line reply. We even submitted this crowdfunding campaign to them - they declined it."
16:17 < kanzure> well duh.
16:17 < kanzure> "ETC Groupis a tiny (eight person) non-profit international civil society research group." is that all. we should be able to defeat those guys.
16:17 < kanzure> although fearmongering has let jaron lanier cost since forever. hrm.
16:18 < fenn> fearmongering is big business
16:19 < kanzure> how about we just ddos them
16:21 < kanzure> the idea that people are this freaked out about mailing some plants is really annoying.
16:21 < kanzure> *some seeds
16:21 < kanzure> "Plants biohackers are associated with a commercial company, Genome Compiler Corporation, and some of their backers have deep pockets to fund a PR war. Indeed they have hired a professional PR company to run their Kickstarter campaign."
16:22 < kanzure> duh, everyone hires pr people to run kickstarter campaigns
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16:28 < kanzure> "The WebKit build was disabled for the following reasons: ICU is required. To build QtWebKit with Qt 5 you need to build Qt 5 with libICU support. Check for ICU support being mentioned in qtbase/config.summary."
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17:58 < nmz787_> can you use android phones as dialup modems?
17:58 < nmz787_> easily?
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18:14 < kanzure> there's probably at least a handful of dialup sound apps that unintentionally work
18:14 < kanzure> but i'm not aware of any that intentionally work
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18:19 < kanzure> ParahSailin: have you seen any watermarks on sci-hub-retrieved papers on libgen?
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22:41 < bkero> Hey, which Portland persosn is behind Portlab?
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22:47 < kanzure> bkero: nmz787_
22:47 < bkero> nmz787_: cheeeez
22:47 < kanzure> bkero: how much better is gecko's build process compared to webkit
22:48 < nmz787_> huh
22:49 < bkero> kanzure: Ours takes less memory to link. On the festest systemavailable it takes ~17 minutes.
22:49 < nmz787_> bkero: oh, well, sort of... Erik Hasenkopf has been doing most of the organizing, came up with the name, found/came up with logos, he and someone else got the website together
22:49 < nmz787_> bioguy (justin dormandy) is the other guy there
22:49 < kanzure> bkero: damn. it's taking me about 25 minutes to fail to build webkit.
22:51 < bkero> kanzure: hg clone http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central && cd mozilla-central && touch .mozconfig && make -j4
22:51 < bkero> Bam, have yerself a firefox
22:51 < kanzure> that doesn't sound exciting at all
22:51 < bkero> Do you want 'exciting' in your build system?
22:51 < kanzure> bkero: i'm porting phantomjs to qt 5 at the moment
22:52 < kanzure> bkero: but i'm considering defecting to http://slimerjs.org/
22:52 < bkero> I see
22:52 < kanzure> except, i don't have great experiences with gecko either
22:53 < kanzure> see e.g. zotero translation-server
22:53 < kanzure> build system is all over the place
22:53  * bkero hasn't used zotero before
22:53 < kanzure> i wonder if that's gecko's fault
22:54 < kanzure> probably not
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--- Log closed Fri Jun 07 00:00:49 2013