--- Log opened Fri Jul 05 00:00:16 2013 00:01 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:07 -!- lichen_ [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:09 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:12 -!- kmo [122@d30-138.icpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:12 -!- kmo [122@d30-138.icpnet.pl] has quit [Changing host] 00:12 -!- kmo [122@unaffiliated/kmo] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:13 -!- Juul [~Juul@208.87.217.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:13 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:13 -!- kmo is now known as kajetan 00:27 < heath> neat 00:27 < heath> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1361254/ 00:27 < heath> .title 00:27 < yoleaux> ULTRASOUND INCREASES THE RATE OF BACTERIAL CELL GROWTH 01:02 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:03 -!- Juul [~Juul@208.87.217.74] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:06 -!- padz [~not@100.43.114.90] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:13 < heath> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0074769606530025?np=y 01:13 < heath> paperbot: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0074769606530025?np=y 01:13 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Bacterial%20Cell%20Division%3A%20The%20Mechanism%20and%20Its%20Precison.txt 01:15 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:28 -!- padz [~not@100.43.114.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:30 -!- padz [~not@100.43.114.90] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:47 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:02 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:06 -!- jrayhawk_ is now known as jrayhawk 02:14 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:19 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@185.5.8.81] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:19 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@185.5.8.81] has quit [Changing host] 02:19 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:03 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:14 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:25 -!- Juul [~Juul@208.87.217.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:25 -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:00 -!- Charlie_ [~quassel@74.63.212.44] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:00 -!- Charlie_ is now known as Guest87577 04:03 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:05 -!- Guest87577 [~quassel@74.63.212.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:08 -!- Charlie__ [~quassel@74.63.212.44] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:11 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:12 -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has quit [] 04:16 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:30 -!- weles [~mariusz@c-71-234-3-169.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:33 -!- phillyj [~Thunderbi@pool-108-36-2-239.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:35 -!- phillyj [~Thunderbi@pool-108-36-2-239.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:41 -!- weles [~mariusz@c-71-234-3-169.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:42 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: yoleaux 05:04 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:05 -!- phillyj [~Thunderbi@pool-108-36-2-239.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:13 -!- phillyj [~Thunderbi@pool-108-36-2-239.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: phillyj] 05:16 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:25 -!- makoLime [~mako@103-9-42-152.flip.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:32 -!- oblique [~oblique@62-56-183.netrun.cytanet.com.cy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:53 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: augur_, Sanky, xl0, EnLilaSko, rk[zzz], upgrayeddd, archels`, crw, kanzure_, Thomas42, (+49 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 05:53 -!- balrog [~balrog@discferret/developer/balrog] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:55 -!- Netsplit over, joins: heath, abetusk, upgrayeddd, Burninate, chido, bkero 05:56 -!- Netsplit over, joins: saurik, xl0, Lemminkainen 05:56 -!- Netsplit over, joins: lupfantomo, padz, strangewarp, Shehrazad, rigel, Sanky 05:56 -!- ParahSail1n [~parahsail@99-25-202-211.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:56 -!- Netsplit over, joins: oblique, weles, EnLilaSko, Charlie__, ThomasEgi, kajetan, cogitokat, sivoais, crw, cpopell (+7 more) 05:56 -!- DonnchaC [~donncha@windmill.donncha.is] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:57 -!- Netsplit over, joins: kanzure_, nuba_, juri__, rk[zzz], pasky_, klafka, smeaaagle, gradstudentbot, undersco2, archels` (+15 more) 05:57 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:04 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:11 -!- abetusk is now known as Guest9902 06:11 -!- Coornail is now known as Guest24912 06:11 -!- DonnchaC is now known as Guest69045 06:13 -!- balrog [~balrog@discferret/developer/balrog] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:14 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: oblique, EnLilaSko, undersco2, jrayhawk 06:14 -!- Netsplit over, joins: oblique, EnLilaSko, jrayhawk, undersco2 06:16 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:16 -!- augur_ is now known as augur 06:17 -!- Guest69045 is now known as DonnchaC 06:17 -!- DonnchaC is now known as Guest96082 06:18 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: rk[zzz], archels`, crw, kanzure_, Thomas42, brownies, Thorbinator, nsh, streety, kajetan, (+14 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 06:18 -!- yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:18 -!- yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Changing host] 06:18 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:18 -!- Netsplit over, joins: kajetan, crw, streety 06:18 -!- Netsplit over, joins: cogitokat 06:19 -!- Netsplit over, joins: archels`, nmz787_ 06:20 -!- ParahSail1n [~parahsail@99-25-202-211.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:20 -!- _Sol_ [~Sol@c-174-57-58-11.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:20 -!- juri__ [juri@funkykitty.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:20 -!- pasky_ [~pasky@nikam.ms.mff.cuni.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:20 -!- gradstudentbot [~gradstude@131.252.130.248] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:20 -!- randalla1ordon [~randall@71-38-144-220.ptld.qwest.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:20 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@pool-173-74-74-243.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:20 -!- Thorbinator [~Thorbinat@66-237-51-34.starstream.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:20 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:20 -!- zubaz [~hexane@unaffiliated/zubaz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:20 -!- Thomas42 [~Thomas42@static.105.236.9.5.clients.your-server.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:20 -!- cpopell [47fff18b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.255.241.139] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:23 -!- devrando1 [~devrandom@50-0-206-254.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:23 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@50-0-206-254.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:26 -!- yoleaux [~yoleaux@obquire.infologie.co] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:26 -!- kanzure_ [~kanzure@131.252.130.248] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:26 -!- rk[zzz] [~rak@108-245-58-182.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:26 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:26 -!- eleitl [~eugen@v8.ativel.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:26 -!- monkeynipples_ [monkeynipp@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-yicirlggpkeehflv] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:26 -!- brownies [~brownies@unaffiliated/brownies] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:27 -!- kanzure_ [~kanzure@131.252.130.248] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 06:27 -!- kanzure [~kanzure@131.252.130.248] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:32 -!- weles [~mariusz@c-71-234-3-169.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:32 -!- helleshin [~talinck@69-61-156-24.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:55 -!- archels` is now known as archels 06:55 -!- archels [~neuralnet@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has quit [Changing host] 06:55 -!- archels [~neuralnet@unaffiliated/archels] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:05 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:18 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:21 -!- Guest9902 is now known as abetusk 07:23 -!- balrog [~balrog@discferret/developer/balrog] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:24 -!- Charlie__ [~quassel@74.63.212.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:24 -!- Charlie [~quassel@74.63.212.44] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:25 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:25 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:28 -!- sivoais_ [~zaki@199.19.225.239] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:30 -!- balrog [~balrog@discferret/developer/balrog] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:30 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:30 -!- AlonzoTG [~atg@pool-108-28-74-221.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:36 -!- sivoais_ [~zaki@199.19.225.239] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:37 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:37 -!- AlonzoTG [~atg@pool-108-28-74-221.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:37 -!- marciogm [~textual@177.106.50.34] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:48 < kanzure> .title http://emploi.epfl.ch/page-94325-en.html 07:49 < yoleaux> Post-Doctoral Fellow | EPFL 07:49 < kanzure> "The Blue Brain Project has modelling infrastructure for constructing in silico neocortical columns containing about 30,000 neurons, distributing the cells through the column and forming synapses. Several such columns have already been assembled into a planar hexagonal mosaic containing up to 1,000,000 neurons. However, axons grow long distances along tracts within the brain's white matter, and the next stage of development is to populate ... 07:49 < kanzure> ... three-dimensional mesh models of brain regions with appropriately-shaped mesocircuits, adjusting their dimensions and shape to match rodent brain anatomy, and connecting the circuits according to known large-scale connectomics data, yielding a complete rat brain model containing on the order of tens of millions of neurons." 07:52 < gradstudentbot> I hope they kick me out. 07:53 -!- cpopell [47fff18b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.255.241.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:05 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:14 -!- kajetan [122@unaffiliated/kmo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:18 -!- ianmathwiz7 [~chatzilla@68-115-57-210.static.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:18 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:28 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@66.233.132.203] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:28 < delinquentme> does anyone know if we've got a reliable way to maintain human cells in homeostasis outside the body? 08:29 < kanzure> no, but you can culture them 08:29 < kanzure> also you can freeze them 08:32 < delinquentme> in #chemistry chatting about this 08:32 < delinquentme> and #biology says we do it often 08:32 < kanzure> they are lying to you. they don't know what homeostasis means. 08:34 < delinquentme> yeah they're kinda derping i think 08:34 < delinquentme> so right now we can culture / grow them 08:34 < delinquentme> and then they'll eventually die 08:34 < delinquentme> so if you wanted to culture a human organ outside the body ... and maintain it 08:34 < kanzure> not if you believe in the hela lines 08:34 < delinquentme> oh ahah well yeah those aren't normally functioning 08:35 < delinquentme> BUT I wonder .... those would be an interesting line to do testing for controlling cancer mechanisms 08:35 < delinquentme> ( i'm sure this is being done ) 08:35 < kanzure> huh? 08:35 < delinquentme> soo hela cells will multiply 08:35 < delinquentme> put simply 08:35 < gradstudentbot> Who used the last of the buffer? 08:36 < delinquentme> sooo if you get hela cells ... and you're interested in working on the mechanics of what would revert cells into a "normal behavior" state 08:36 < delinquentme> those cell lines would be good to work with 08:37 < delinquentme> I was just reading about this small molecule and blah blah "old drug" not patentable 08:37 < delinquentme> so nobodys working on it 08:37 < kanzure> that's not true, you can usually patent any small molecule as long as you add an extra inert group or some shit 08:39 -!- marciogm [~textual@177.106.50.34] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:40 < delinquentme> http://www.rexresearch.com/diclacet/dca.htm 08:40 < delinquentme> Enter DCA, which has been used for years to treat people with mitochondrial disease. The drug boosts the ability of mitochondria to generate energy. When given to cancer cells it did the same: the cells switched from glycolysis to mitochondrial energy production. What's more, functional mitochondria help cells recognise functional abnormalities and trigger cell death. 08:45 < ParahSail1n> ive been trying to conduct unscientific trials of dca for a while 08:45 < ParahSail1n> whenever a friend's dog gets cancer, i try to push the stuff 08:46 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:47 < kanzure> damn, why all the doggy cancer? 08:49 < delinquentme> ParahSai1in, why do we no just make hela cells and mix wif dca 08:50 < ParahSail1n> like 100% of dogs that survive their own stupidity die of cancer 08:51 < ParahSail1n> paperbot, http://ar.iiarjournals.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&pmid=20032407 08:51 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/In%20Vitro%20Effects%20of%20Dichloroacetate%20and%20CO2%20on%20Hypoxic%20HeLa%20Cells.pdf 08:58 < ParahSail1n> lol EtBr scare on the diybio list 09:06 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:06 -!- kmo [~kmo@apn-5-60-216-115.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:06 -!- kmo [~kmo@apn-5-60-216-115.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl] has quit [Changing host] 09:06 -!- kmo [~kmo@unaffiliated/kmo] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:07 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:08 < delinquentme> ParahSai1in, thats awesome. 09:08 < ParahSail1n> methylene blue really sucks as a gel dye 09:08 < ParahSail1n> you can hardly see the band at all 09:09 < ParahSail1n> methylene blue is not going to be any easy to obtain than etbr 09:13 < kanzure> i don't know what i was expecting. i was hoping to get data off of my phone to transfer it to another phone. but if the usb connection is broken, how would it get any power? 09:13 < kanzure> i guess i should just buy a few more batteries 09:14 < ParahSail1n> paperbot, http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0003269787904192 09:14 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Ethidium%20bromide%3A%20Destruction%20and%20decontamination%20of%20solutions%20.txt 09:14 < kanzure> hrmm 09:15 < kanzure> seriously though. scihub plugin for paperbot. 09:15 < kanzure> these failures are unacceptable. 09:15 < ParahSail1n> i would have worked on that yesterday, but sci-hub seems to be blocking me 09:16 < kanzure> did you email them? 09:16 < ParahSail1n> no 09:17 < kanzure> k 09:17 < chris_99> is sci-hub working again, i kept getting a donation page 09:18 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:18 < ParahSail1n> yeah thats what you get when you connect from us ip 09:18 < ParahSail1n> if you connect through open russian proxy you get a banned message 09:18 < chris_99> haha 09:19 < kanzure> ParahSail1n: fyi there are certain proxies that forward yor ip address 09:19 < kanzure> ParahSail1n: you can usually check via http://httpbin.org/get or http://requestb.in/ 09:20 < chris_99> hmm atm i see 'The fundraising target was reached.Thanks to everyone for supporting the Open Access cause!' 09:20 < kanzure> ugh this isn't open access 09:21 < chris_99> indeed 09:23 < gradstudentbot> Okay, someone really needs to do the lab dishes. 09:24 < ParahSail1n> 46.229.136.224 3128 works 09:24 < ParahSail1n> seems that paper was already on libgen http://libgen.org/scimag1/10.1016/0003-2697%252887%252990419-2.pdf 09:24 < chris_99> it lets you fetch papers through it? 09:25 < ParahSail1n> yes set that proxy and you can use sci-hub 09:25 < kanzure> how do they check if a paper was already on library genesis? 09:25 < chris_99> cool i'll give it a shot 09:25 < ParahSail1n> kanzure, some backend detail involving doi lookup i imagine 09:25 < kanzure> ParahSail1n: let's just find a vps i can pay for 09:26 < chris_99> 'The proxy server is refusing connections' odd 09:27 < kanzure> import requests; proxies = {"http": "46.229.136.224 09:27 < kanzure> oops 09:27 < kanzure> import requests; proxies = {"http": "46.229.136.224"}; response = requests.get("http://sci-hub.org/", proxies=proxies); 09:28 < chris_99> hmm with nc i get 'nc: unable to connect to address 46.229.136.224, service 3128' probabaly my stupid phone network 09:29 < ParahSail1n> in contrast to dogs, female goats generally die of oldness or childbirth, but rarely cancer 09:29 < kanzure> what about feral dogs? 09:30 < ParahSail1n> i imagine those would die of physical trauma most of the time 09:30 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:31 < ParahSail1n> unless you mean the goats, and yeah that would be a main cause of death for them 09:31 < ParahSail1n> i wasnt including trauma for the goats 09:31 < kanzure> head trauma :3 09:32 < gradstudentbot> Hey, does anyone have an extra undergrad? 09:32 < kanzure> ParahSail1n: so, the problem with all these proxies is that paperbot would have to cycle through proxy ip addresses, and fetch new proxy lists. which is annoying. 09:32 < kanzure> i don't want to have to manually feed proxy ip addresses each day 09:33 < ParahSail1n> if they like you at sci-hub.org, ask them to greenlight that pdx machine 09:42 < ParahSail1n> yeah its insane 09:43 -!- ianmathwiz7 [~chatzilla@68-115-57-210.static.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:45 -!- Shehrazad is now known as ElixirVitae 09:46 -!- marciogm [~textual@177.106.50.34] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:48 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:06 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:18 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:29 < jonathan___> "" "Life expectancy has been increasing in the past in countries doing well by 2.5 years per decade, three months per year, which is really quite remarkable - six hours per day," according to Professor James Vaupel, director of the Max Planck Institute for Demographic Research in Germany, who's been tracking it. ... "The last couple of years on that graph, there is a possible slowdown," says Colin Mathers a senior scientist 10:29 < jonathan___> World Health Organization (WHO) says. "" 10:30 < jonathan___> average life expectancy improvements http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/68489000/gif/_68489044_life_expectency_624.gif 10:31 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@66.233.132.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:35 <@fenn> methylene blue is commonly used to treat fungal infections in aquarium fish; any fish store will have it 10:36 <@fenn> what goes in sybr safe gold or whatever 10:36 <@fenn> just look at msds and mix up your own 10:38 < ParahSail1n> sybr safe dyes are super impossible to get other than from invitrogen 10:38 <@fenn> hm they don't even say what it is on the msds 10:38 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@66.233.132.203] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:38 < ParahSail1n> there are patents describing what the fluorophore is 10:38 < ParahSail1n> and i suppose you could have a russian custom synthesis place make you a batch 10:39 < ParahSail1n> its a really exotic fluorophore 10:41 <@fenn> how does it stick to DNA but isn't toxic? 10:42 < ParahSail1n> oh its toxic 10:42 <@fenn> is it just brighter? 10:42 <@fenn> so you can use less of it 10:42 < ParahSail1n> but invitrogen has funded enough papers where nothing could be claimed with a p value < .05 10:43 < gradstudentbot> Coffee? Never tried it. 10:45 <@fenn> "Coffee? Never tried it" - Things Architecture Students Don't Say 10:47 < kanzure> ParahSail1n: ok contact achieved. he was in my pidgin buddy list already. 10:48 < ParahSail1n> nice 10:48 < ParahSail1n> then who was the stranger 10:48 < kanzure> "we have 21 million paper" 10:49 < ParahSail1n> https://www.google.com/patents/US8252530 10:49 < kanzure> "The traffic has to be > 23 papers each minute" 10:49 < kanzure> "Now is lower" 10:49 <@fenn> i wonder if i've met stranger, the name sounds familiar at least 10:49 < kanzure> "Yes, all unique" 10:49 < kanzure> fenn: it was strangeland 10:49 < kanzure> fenn: the person who during their 10:50 <@fenn> i don't remember that at all 10:50 <@fenn> looks like an issue 10:50 < kanzure> yes it was an issue 10:53 < kanzure> "We are contacting you as we have received a report that your website http://sci-hub.org/donate/ is currently infringing upon the intellectual property of Nicholas Tardif, Elsevier, Inc, n.tardif@elsevier.com. Such infringement also violates PayPal’s Acceptable Use Policy." 10:54 < kanzure> wait a sec.. i remember tardif. i was stalking him a while back. 10:54 <@fenn> why does the IP belong to this guy instead of elsevier proper? 10:54 < ParahSail1n> pick the target, freeze, personalize, and polarize it 10:54 < kanzure> i bet that's just how paypal translates the message into russian 10:54 < ParahSail1n> tardif sounds like as good a target as any 10:55 < kanzure> e.g. i bet that message was originally sent through paypal's interface 10:55 < kanzure> and then they have message templates for each language 10:55 < gradstudentbot> I think I'll be done in 4 years. 10:56 < ParahSail1n> make it personally costly to represent criminal interests as an attorney 10:58 < kanzure> why even bother using paypal, geeze 10:59 <@fenn> because how else do you wire money to strangeland 10:59 < kanzure> bitcoins 10:59 <@fenn> you have a point there 11:00 < kanzure> damn it, the day i have to teach the strangelands how to properly run shady operations is the day i have to eat my metaphorical hat. 11:00 < kanzure> what happened to that legendary sense of paranoia 11:01 <@fenn> the wall fell down 11:04 < kanzure> there's some literature from cypherpunks (various faqs) i guess 11:04 <@fenn> librarians seem to be clueless about fighting The Man for some reason 11:04 < kanzure> but nothing that elaborately explains the extreme sense of paranoia you should develop or employ 11:04 <@fenn> it's not paranoia if someone's out to get you 11:07 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:07 < ParahSail1n> so whats the deal, can he greenlight some ips? 11:08 < kanzure> trying to strike a deal 11:13 < delinquentme> kanzure, 11:13 < delinquentme> you wan me come cheel today? 11:13 < kanzure> ParahSail1n: the limit is 18 per 24 ours 11:13 < kanzure> *hours 11:13 < delinquentme> gimme dat sched 11:13 < delinquentme> also we could totally hit up john schloendorn to hang too 11:13 < delinquentme> OH and you missed aubreys BBQ 11:13 < ParahSail1n> lol aubrey had a bbq? 11:14 < delinquentme> yeth 11:14 < delinquentme> or so i herd 11:14 < ParahSail1n> that wacky alcoholic 11:15 < ParahSail1n> limit of 18 papers per 24 hours... 11:15 < kanzure> yeah i am trying to bump that up 11:17 < ParahSail1n> offer to give him pdx as an alternate proxy 11:17 < delinquentme> what? 11:17 < delinquentme> 18 papers per 24 hrs? 11:17 < ParahSail1n> i know he has like 20 of them already 11:19 < kanzure> okay 100/day 11:19 < kanzure> oh brother. all of this is over just $1k in paypal. fuck that. 11:21 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:22 < delinquentme> ??? 11:22 < ParahSail1n> oh, paypal ripped him off, so he's punishing americans? 11:22 < delinquentme> can has metal party? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGQotw9Hbbg 11:22 < kanzure> no. paypal hasn't frozen the account yet. 11:22 < delinquentme> ROOOAAR 11:22 < ParahSail1n> but is threatening to 11:22 < kanzure> "investigating" 11:22 < delinquentme> "sucking dick" 11:23 < delinquentme> bahaha i make me laugh 11:23 < kanzure> "You know, I asked for donations from Iranian researchers. Yes, though there was so much users from this country only 3 people could donate. even $1. I got a message they live for $80 / month." 11:27 < kanzure> fenn: paranoia sounds derogatory. what's the right word? 11:27 < delinquentme> uMMMM 11:27 < delinquentme> easiest way to get ahold of a human organ for research purposes? 11:27 < delinquentme> (srsly) 11:35 < ParahSail1n> use pig 11:36 < ParahSail1n> the origin of the great apes was a hybridization event between the african forest hog and an old world monkey 11:39 < kanzure> oh god it's all php 11:39 < kanzure> abandon ship 11:40 < ParahSail1n> php is faster than python, what's the big deal? 11:41 < jonathan___> faster? 11:41 < ParahSail1n> putting everything in the same namespace reduces loc by avoiding the need for import statements 11:41 < delinquentme> lawlz. 11:41 < ParahSail1n> the import statement in python is a known bottleneck 11:41 < delinquentme> Prez.Help.Program 11:42 < jonathan___> um so don't do that. 11:42 < ParahSail1n> php helpfully puts everything you'd ever need into a single namespace 11:42 < jonathan___> python can dump into one binary right 11:42 < kanzure> yes you can use py2exe or pyinstaller 11:43 < jonathan___> then there is zero concern for file system speed in execution 11:43 < jonathan___> "lets use a toy language because it is faster because it doesnt have any namespace" oh okay 11:44 < ParahSail1n> im talking for web apps jonathan___ 11:44 < kanzure> jonathan___: yeah, i think namespacing is probably my largest complaint about php at this point. second to the low level of training of most of its programmers. 11:45 < kanzure> jonathan___: i think this is the best writeup about php, http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/ 11:46 < jonathan___> "web apps" means what. oh server side right 11:46 < jonathan___> isnt the real def of web app something that runs 100% in browser thru plugin or native, on client side only. i.e. java 11:47 < kanzure> well, people mean javascript 11:47 < kanzure> not java 11:47 < jonathan___> or html5 but still, client side 11:47 < kanzure> jvm is usually living outside of your browser. so java is not really a web app. 11:47 < ParahSail1n> javascript is a subset of java 11:47 < kanzure> javascript is not a subset of java 11:47 < kanzure> holy hell wtf 11:47 < jonathan___> what 11:47 < ParahSail1n> ok ill stop trolling 11:47 < jonathan___> ok look I'm gonna leave now 11:47 < ParahSail1n> that was too outrageous 11:48 < jonathan___> go troll me on the diybio list it looks popular right now ha 11:49 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@66.233.132.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:49 < kanzure> ParahSail1n: site is being debugged. it's all php and there were no passwords before my request. 11:50 < ParahSail1n> passwords for what? 11:50 < ParahSail1n> im not sure if i want him to password the site 11:51 < kanzure> it's complicated.. ip address authentication was a no, but now there's a cookie i can pass, except they are now changing all of the php to account for this. 11:52 -!- marciogm [~textual@177.106.50.34] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:00 < ParahSail1n> man, xml.dom.minidom and xml.etree.ElementTree dont seem very tolerant of in the wild html 12:02 < kanzure> i suggest using pythonwebkit 12:02 < kanzure> fight fire with fire 12:02 < kanzure> also there's webkitgtk+ which gives you gobject bindings thanks to the glorious gtk project 12:02 < ParahSail1n> this must be why phantomjs exists? 12:03 < kanzure> phantomjs is somewhat related, but unfortunately you control it via javascript 12:03 < kanzure> the gtk gobject bindings to webkitgtk+ allow you to use the dom directly from any programming language that has gobject support (which is.. most of them). 12:05 < kanzure> ParahSail1n: here, have you a haskell for great power https://github.com/jblake/webrender/blob/master/src/WebRender.hs 12:05 <@fenn> why are you bothering with scihub again? 12:05 < ParahSail1n> yeah im just gonna use tagsoup or some shit 12:05 < kanzure> fenn: because they have access to many things that i do not 12:05 <@fenn> don't you have like a million ezproxies? 12:05 < kanzure> those are just urls. not passwords. 12:06 < ParahSail1n> one great thing about sci-hub is that every pdf accessed through it goes onto libgen 12:06 < ParahSail1n> so that you dont have to keep your cache on diyhpl.us where copyright trolls will send you dmca takedowns all the time 12:07 <@fenn> assuming you can get to libgen 12:07 < ParahSail1n> libgen is easier for me to get to than sci-hub 12:08 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:12 <@fenn> who would have access to all of ieee's publications? 12:12 <@fenn> seems like most universities only have bits and pieces 12:12 < kanzure> ieee would have access 12:13 <@fenn> i reckon MIT probably has most of them 12:14 <@fenn> maybe KAUST or similar throw-money-at-it institutions 12:15 <@fenn> i shouldn't be worrying about this, i have too much to read already 12:16 <@fenn> where are all the militant librarians when you need them 12:16 < kanzure> i think we're them 12:16 <@fenn> http://www.ala.org/Images/OIF/radicalbutton.jpg 12:17 < kanzure> okay cookie is working 12:20 < kanzure> someone should bug me until i implement it into paperbot 12:20 < kanzure> this is going to be the nuclear version of paperbot 12:20 <@fenn> heh there's even an anime with a "library defence force" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshokan_Sens%C5%8D 12:20 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@66.233.132.203] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:21 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:21 < kanzure> "It is the most important responsibility of libraries to offer collected materials and library facilities to the people who have the Right to Know as one of their fundamental human rights. In order to fulfill their mission, libraries shall recognize the following matters as their proper duties, and shall put them into practice." 12:21 < kanzure> "Libraries have freedom in collecting their materials. 12:21 < kanzure> Libraries secure the freedom of offering their materials. 12:21 < kanzure> Libraries guarantee the privacy of users. 12:21 < kanzure> Libraries oppose any type of censorship categorically." 12:22 < kanzure> oh so it's a utopia story 12:23 <@fenn> utopia? you mean because someone actually stood up for their ideals? 12:25 <@fenn> btw that cookie hack was pretty quick 12:25 < kanzure> i exert dark influence 12:25 < kanzure> also identity blackmail 12:25 <@fenn> lol 12:26 <@fenn> we know where you live ... somewhere in central asia 12:26 < ParahSail1n> i dont even understand what type 'unicode' shit is in python 12:26 < ParahSail1n> isnt there already type 'str' 12:26 < kanzure> just use python 3 and forget about it 12:27 <@fenn> unicode is unicode, what's not to understand? 12:27 < ParahSail1n> you run paperbot on python 3? 12:28 < kanzure> no, paperbot is not python 3. sorry about that. but there is no good reason for it to be python 2. 12:28 < kanzure> a lot of paperbot needs to be rewritten 12:28 < kanzure> iirc there's nothing about it that requires it to be python 2. so it should just work on python 3. 12:29 <@fenn> why do people still use python 2? 12:29 < kanzure> because i am morally wrong 12:29 < ParahSail1n> numpy 12:29 <@fenn> oh, numpy is a good reason 12:30 <@fenn> "NumPy and SciPy support the Python 2.x series, beginning with version 2.4, as well as Python 3.1 and newer" 12:32 <@fenn> he biggest problem in practice is actually a semantic one: Python 3 doesn't let you play fast and loose with text encodings the way Python 2 does. This is both its greatest benefit over Python 2, but also the greatest barrier to porting: you have to fix your Unicode handling issues to get a port to work correctly (whereas in 2.x, a lot of that code silently produced incorrect data with non-ASCII 12:32 <@fenn> inputs, giving the impression of working, especially in environments where non-ASCII data is uncommon). 12:33 -!- randalla1ordon [~randall@71-38-144-220.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:34 <@fenn> that doesn't seem like a good reason to me 12:34 < kanzure> good reason for what? 12:35 <@fenn> for people to start new projects in python 2.x 12:35 < kanzure> people start with python 2.x only if they have a dependency on a non-py3k-compatible library 12:35 < kanzure> django was a blocker for a long time 12:36 < klafka> do all the scientific computing things support python3k 12:36 < klafka> that's my main concern atm 12:36 < klafka> well it's my only concern about python really 12:36 <@fenn> "all the things" is not very specific 12:37 < klafka> yes i know 12:37 < kanzure> opencv, numpy, scipy, scikit, what else? 12:38 < klafka> pymc 12:38 < kanzure> sympy? 12:40 -!- makoLime [~mako@103-9-42-152.flip.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:40 < klafka> i'm assuming all of the continuum new libs are py3k compatible 12:40 < klafka> i just got their iopro library 12:40 < klafka> it is actually pretty awesome 12:42 <@fenn> i guess scikit still requires 2.7... i guess 12:43 <@fenn> opencv requires 2.7 12:43 < kanzure> i would have expected opencv to be ported already 12:43 < kanzure> isn't it just some vague python bindings? 12:44 <@fenn> yeah it's probably just some swig crap 12:44 < nmz787_> there are a few opencv python bindings 12:44 < nmz787_> slash implementations 12:44 < kanzure> any for py3k? 12:45 <@fenn> Almost all of the source code of PyOpenCV is compatible with Python 3. Boost.Python and NumPy are now both compatible with Python 3. The only remaining show stopper is setuptools. There is an alternative package to setuptools called 'distribute' that is compatible with Python 3. I will try to see if we can replace setuptools with it and make PyOpenCV fully compatible with Python 3. 12:46 < nmz787_> the latest official opencv python junk looked pretty good 12:46 < kanzure> setuptools is non-py3k? wtf. 12:46 <@fenn> how the hell is setuptools still not ported 12:46 < nmz787_> using sci/numpy arrays for images, seems smart 12:49 -!- randallagordon [~randall@71-38-144-220.ptld.qwest.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:50 < kanzure> what about tesseract-ocr? 12:50 < ParahSail1n> numpy arrays are bytearrays so why not 12:51 < nmz787_> damn, yash isn't here again 12:51 < nmz787_> does he check logs for his name? 12:52 -!- ianmathwiz7 [~chatzilla@68-115-57-210.static.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:52 < kanzure> sometimes. he can definitely be guilted into doing that. 12:54 < nmz787_> delinquentme: homeostasis can be preserved by lowering the temperature 12:54 < nmz787_> delinquentme: it's called freezing, it's done to cells of all kinds, all the time 12:54 < kanzure> i don't think freezing can be argued to be homeostasis 12:55 < delinquentme> nmz787_, sure but thats also not good for the organ 12:55 < nmz787_> kanzure: you can just plug a lab supply into your phone's battery port 12:55 <@fenn> it's called "cryostasis" 12:55 < nmz787_> delinquentme: it can be fine 12:55 < delinquentme> sure but its not like " bodily homeostasis " 12:55 < nmz787_> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/homeo- 12:55 < delinquentme> its " slow all chemical processes down to buy more time " 12:55 < nmz787_> 'same' 12:55 < delinquentme> not " happy organ in comfortable place " 12:56 < delinquentme> ^ this is what we want 12:56 < nmz787_> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/stasis 12:56 < nmz787_> 'same' 'balance' 12:56 < nmz787_> so freezing counts 12:56 < nmz787_> sure it will be fine 12:56 < delinquentme> ok so to redirect 12:56 < delinquentme> the question 12:56 < nmz787_> it won't know happiness or lack thereof 12:56 < delinquentme> I want room temperature maintanence 12:56 < nmz787_> why? 12:56 < delinquentme> with normal body temp cellular process rates 12:57 < delinquentme> because im interested in the chemical inputs and what needs to go in 12:57 < kanzure> ParahSail1n: are you doing paperbot things? just curious. 12:57 < delinquentme> when its frozen its not performing normal organ function 12:57 < kanzure> ParahSail1n: or were you asking for other reasons 12:58 < nmz787_> delinquentme: sure it is, just super slow 12:58 <@fenn> delinquentme: there are some tissue culture techniques that use constant flow, and some "artificial organ" construction protocols that do perfusion of nutrient/buffer solution, that might be a good place to start 12:58 < nmz787_> or almost paused 12:58 < nmz787_> delinquentme: like i said, what's your goal? 12:58 < delinquentme> nmz787_, so if I want the organ to cough out its normal functional products do I want it frozen? 12:58 < nmz787_> you said homeostasis 12:59 <@fenn> i think we talked about this before and the magic word was perfusion 12:59 < delinquentme> so you want to educate me on the terms to use or help me? 12:59 < ParahSail1n> yeah doing paperbot shit 12:59 < delinquentme> fenn thats in reseeding the organ 12:59 < nmz787_> well that's why i'm asking what the purpose is 12:59 < delinquentme> and sure also a bit of the giving it nutrients 12:59 < nmz787_> if it's simply to study 12:59 < nmz787_> well 12:59 < kanzure> ParahSail1n: okay. feel free to delete chunks of code that you hate. i did a really poor job on it. 12:59 < nmz787_> you've got a few hundred person lifetimes of research to get there, likely 13:00 <@fenn> i dont know what "reseeding" is supposed to mean. are you talking about reusing pig collagen as a scaffold? 13:00 < nmz787_> delinquentme: perfusion is a fancy pants word for getting oxygen to cells 13:00 < delinquentme> fenn, reseeding is the post "perfusion decellularization" process where we put cells back into the ECM scaffold to make a new biocompatible organ 13:01 <@fenn> delinquentme: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_perfusion 13:01 < nmz787_> oh 13:01 < nmz787_> sorry 13:01 < nmz787_> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/perfusing 13:01 < nmz787_> 'To coat or permeate with liquid, color, or light; suffuse.' 13:01 < nmz787_> liquid, not oxygen ! 13:01 <@fenn> will you stop using that awful website, sheesh 13:02 -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-67-108-203.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:02 < delinquentme> fenn, nmz787_ so the idea is ... come up with a protocol which supports room temperature organ operation 13:02 < delinquentme> that protocol will be useful for two very high value operations 13:02 < delinquentme> 1) organ transplant 13:02 < nmz787_> delinquentme: just get a dog and give it a lobotomy 13:02 < delinquentme> 2) development of organ on a chip microfluidics 13:02 < kanzure> why room temperature? temperature is not the problem with organ perfusion. 13:02 < delinquentme> its all cellular opkeep 13:02 < kanzure> you don't need an organ on a chip. you just need a prosthetic that mimics the same features. 13:02 < kanzure> here is what you actually want to do 13:03 < delinquentme> kanzure, room temp is the thing if we want to get the organ to do its invivo "thing" 13:03 < kanzure> you want a machine that is capable of keeping a specific organ alive and operation 13:03 < kanzure> your body is not room temperature -_- 13:03 < delinquentme> IE " In body normal behavior " 13:03 < kanzure> blah 13:03 < kanzure> *operational 13:03 < nmz787_> delinquentme: you might look into pig organ transplant research 13:03 -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-67-108-203.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:03 < delinquentme> oh well thats bc you aint cool 13:04 < nmz787_> delinquentme: if you could get around rejection, it would be a machine for your organ upkeep 13:04 < delinquentme> http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5180/csicomment.png 13:04 <@fenn> ahem so i'd like to point out that such machines exist and have been around since 1982 13:04 < nmz787_> transfer your donor heart into a carrier pig, drive the pig across the country, swap out of carrier pig 13:04 < delinquentme> http://www.forbes.com/sites/singularity/2013/05/01/new-device-keeps-liver-alive-outside-body/ 13:04 < kanzure> stop reading news sites 13:04 < kanzure> didn't we ban you from reading news sites, delinquentme? 13:04 < delinquentme> Perhaps its an FDA approval issue? 13:04 < delinquentme> also I want to try this with a human liver or something 13:05 < delinquentme> im wondering how hard that will be 13:05 < delinquentme> " hard" .. how hard . " hard " hahah 13:05 < delinquentme> sorry 13:05 < nmz787_> you will need to go outside this country 13:05 < nmz787_> since you aren't an MD 13:05 < nmz787_> no one will give you a half-decent human liver legally 13:06 < delinquentme> it doesnt need to be half decent 13:06 < delinquentme> just barely functional 13:06 < delinquentme> but I guess I can start w pig 13:06 <@fenn> start with rabbit 13:06 < delinquentme> fenn, do you know the names of these machines? 13:06 <@fenn> dude i just linked the wikipedia article on it 13:06 < delinquentme> and right now it looks like the machines just use "blood" 13:07 < delinquentme> which is like 13:07 < gradstudentbot> You know, I can just do consulting. 13:07 < delinquentme> not scalable 13:07 < kanzure> blood is scalable because it's working 13:07 < kanzure> where do you think blood comes from? the ether? 13:07 < delinquentme> babies 13:08 <@fenn> the blood federal reserve? 13:08 < delinquentme> I bet cat labs would be awesome places to get first mechanical tests done 13:08 < kanzure> fenn: not quite. bodies create blood. 13:08 < delinquentme> or are rabbit labs more ... common? 13:09 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:09 < kanzure> root cause analysis, if you are concerned about blood then just make sure your system is capable of making blood 13:09 <@fenn> i'm so lost in this conversation 13:09 < kanzure> me too 13:09 < kanzure> fenn: he was saying that machine perfusion is impractical because it requires blood to keep organs alive (of course it does) 13:10 < kanzure> fenn: so i was telling him "then make blood" 13:10 <@fenn> but so what, you need the organs in the first place, wherever you got the organs you can also get blood 13:10 < kanzure> true, but you can also do lab-grown blood if you bothered 13:10 -!- crw [~crw@unaffiliated/crw] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 13:11 < kanzure> i wonder why nobody has done that yet. don't you need some bones and a few nutrients? 13:11 <@fenn> also i think blood is probably easier to acquire than liquid perfluoroalkanes 13:11 < kanzure> is it? aren't we always in a perpetual human blood shortage? 13:11 <@fenn> who said anything about human blood 13:12 < delinquentme> fenn, so my end idea was to hookup a reseeded thymus and get it to start producing bio-compatible WBCs 13:12 < kanzure> too much acronym 13:12 < delinquentme> white blood cells 13:12 < delinquentme> T cells 13:12 < kanzure> fenn: i don't recall non-human blood working in transfusions. counter evidence? 13:12 < kanzure> delinquentme: you should just say blood, then. that's what we're talking about. 13:12 < kanzure> delinquentme: you should also stop saying "reseeded" 13:13 < delinquentme> kanzure, nah bc blood is marrow cells 13:13 < delinquentme> this is characterization of tcells 13:13 < delinquentme> BUT 13:13 < delinquentme> SENS calls for upgraded white blood cell machinery 13:14 <@fenn> delinquentme: you know about SCID animals right? 13:14 < delinquentme> sorry kanz ... but a donor thymus reseeded with a persons cells 13:14 < delinquentme> will be a phenomenal feedback look for augmenting white blood cells 13:15 < delinquentme> and is already financially viable ... as we need to maintain immune systems in aging individuals 13:15 < ParahSail1n> im kinda surprised mate de coca is still allowed on amazon.com 13:15 <@fenn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_combined_immunodeficiency_(non-human) 13:15 < delinquentme> so thymus + bioreactors ... keep that organ at body temp and producing / characterizing white blood cells ... and you've got something of value 13:15 < kanzure> right now i am more interested in this claim of non-human blood transfusions being successful 13:15 < delinquentme> which can be used as a research platform for engineering 13:15 <@fenn> er, skip the crap about dogs and horses in that article 13:16 <@fenn> actually that whole article sucks, nevermind 13:16 <@fenn> anyway, you can just buy a mouse or a rabbit that has no immune system, and transplant your thymus into it 13:17 <@fenn> i think this is what schloendorn is doing, but with progenitor cells instead of thymus 13:18 <@fenn> he was talking about using it for aids and chemotherapy complications 13:18 < nmz787_> isn't the thymus simply the hookah bar equivalent for WBCs? 13:18 < nmz787_> like, the marrow makes them 13:18 < nmz787_> they just meet up with B cells in the thymus 13:18 <@fenn> right 13:18 < delinquentme> fenn, yeah i just sent him an email on this 13:18 < delinquentme> that was immune path 13:19 < nmz787_> delinquentme: search terms: synthetic defined culture media 13:19 < nmz787_> delinquentme: serum-free 13:19 < nmz787_> delinquentme: bloodless media is more expensive 13:20 < kanzure> if there non-human blood transfusion works, then you could practically provide an unlimited supply of blood to human organ perfusion machines 13:20 < kanzure> *if the 13:20 < kanzure> *if 13:20 < delinquentme> I guess I question if sticking this glad into a mouse would begin re-characterizing the thymus 13:20 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:20 < nmz787_> seriously we should all just move to thailand or somewhere, hard drives are cheap, and they wouldn't question us raising headless rabiits whose only jobs was to be milked of their sweet sweet purfuser 13:20 < nmz787_> perfuser 13:21 < nmz787_> perfusalatory fluid 13:21 < kanzure> why does it need to be headless? 13:21 < delinquentme> for marketing 13:21 < nmz787_> it won't need a brain 13:21 < nmz787_> more efficient per lb 13:21 < gradstudentbot> Paper submitted. 13:21 < delinquentme> dont we do this in the midwest already? 13:21 <@fenn> "i swear, i thought it was more ethical to chop your head off, don't get mad at me" 13:21 < delinquentme> lolol 13:21 < nmz787_> fenn: not chopped, never had 13:21 < kanzure> seems more complicated to remove heads 13:21 < nmz787_> nah 13:22 < delinquentme> than to grow bodies w/o? 13:22 < delinquentme> idk about that. 13:22 < nmz787_> just clip those cells from the embryo 13:22 < delinquentme> you're assuming thats not used in orientation 13:22 < delinquentme> and the spinal cord in development? 13:22 < delinquentme> no way 13:22 < delinquentme> anyways no reason to chop heads 13:22 < nmz787_> there must be some brain-only protein that could be disrupted, either screwing head development, or screwing neural function 13:22 <@fenn> how about we implant a chip into the brain and use it to fly cruise missiles or do NLP or traveling salesman problems or whatever 13:23 < nmz787_> making the animals complete verifiable retards would seem to side-step ethical issues 13:23 <@fenn> waste of a brain if you ask me 13:23 < nmz787_> no need for spinal cord for blood prodcution 13:23 < delinquentme> HAHAHA 13:23 < delinquentme> " your control systems are amazing " 13:23 < delinquentme> " rabbit brains " 13:23 < delinquentme> ' yeap right there in the warhead ' 13:24 < nmz787_> i'm all for headless animal mutation research 13:24 < kanzure> fenn: i demand references 13:24 < kanzure> fenn: regarding blood 13:24 < nmz787_> delinquentme: have you seen the head transplant news? 13:24 < delinquentme> nmz787_, fucking love it 13:24 <@fenn> http://www.omnicorp.com/ 13:24 < delinquentme> it feels like evangelion like a fucking anime 13:24 < kanzure> you are both banned from reading the news 13:24 < nmz787_> delinquentme: perfect reason to raise headless retard humans 13:24 < nmz787_> or at least retards 13:24 < kanzure> that wasn't news. that was one professor saying he wants to do it. 13:24 < nmz787_> verified retards 13:24 < delinquentme> nmz787_, im saying we have them enmass already 13:24 < kanzure> so does everyone else, big deal. just because you want something isn't news. 13:24 < delinquentme> go dig through kansas 13:25 < kanzure> fenn: this does not look like blood evidence to me 13:25 <@fenn> cybernetic brain-in-a-vat defense drones 13:25 < delinquentme> ^ 13:25 < delinquentme> Immortals 13:25 < delinquentme> we have them already 13:25 < delinquentme> in SC2 13:25 < delinquentme> one of my fav units 13:26 <@fenn> aww there's no content on that website 13:26 -!- lichen_ [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:26 < kanzure> cory is way ahead of you on that. he has neural tissue cultures with microelectrode arrays iirc. 13:27 < kanzure> anyway. blood refs? 13:27 <@fenn> blood refs what? 13:27 < kanzure> you keep claiming non-human blood can support human organs. i can't find any references on the interwebs about this. 13:27 <@fenn> animal blood won't play nice with human blood because of Rh factor, why do you think it's called Rh factor 13:27 < kanzure> if this has been tested and it works then why are we still doing blood donation drives? fuck all that shit. 13:29 < kanzure> "In December 2003, a new haemoglobin-based oxygen therapeutic, PolyHeme, began field tests in a Phase III trial on emergency patients (in trauma settings) in the U.S. PolyHeme was the 15th experiment to be approved by the Food and Drug Administration since 1996. Patient consent is not necessary under the special category created by the FDA for these experiments. In late 2005, an independent panel verified, after the fourth and final review of ... 13:29 < kanzure> ... 500 trauma patients enrolled in this study by that date, that no statistical evidence of safety concerns had arisen so far in the study. This study concluded in mid-2006 with final enrollment of 720 patients. Wired news reported that the trial failed when 47 of the 350 people given PolyHeme died compared to 35 deaths out of 363 in the control group. Debate exists as to whether or not the difference in the mortality rate is attributable to ... 13:29 < kanzure> ... the small sample size. The fact that the experimental subjects did not give consent is a significant factor.[7]" 13:29 < kanzure> "In 2010, Hard to Treat Diseases, Inc. (HTD) merged with an anonymous Canadian biotechnology company in hopes to enhance donated blood or hemoglobin based blood substitutes to have a shelf life of 42 days and higher levels of Nitric Oxide when packaged.[6]" 13:30 < kanzure> "In 2013, IIT Madras was approved to mass-produce artificial blood.[8]" 13:30 < kanzure> great, now does it work with tissue cultures or organs? 13:30 <@fenn> this is dumb, first prove your product on animals before using it on humans, sheesh 13:30 < kanzure> i see no indication that they did not do animal trials 13:31 < nmz787_> kanzure: human cells can live with bovine serum 13:31 < kanzure> ParahSail1n: didn't you want to do some project to grow bovine serum without bovines? 13:31 <@fenn> anyway 13% dying vs 10% dying sounds like success to me 13:32 < kanzure> "Recently, the scientific community has begun to explore the possibility of using stem cells as a means of producing an alternate source of transfusable blood. A study performed by Giarratana et al. describes a large-scale ex-vivo production of mature human blood cells using hematopoietic stem cells." 13:32 < ParahSail1n> human serum without humans 13:32 < kanzure> large-scale ex-vivo production. great. 13:32 < kanzure> ParahSail1n: well. we should do that. 13:32 <@fenn> but my reading about polyheme suggests it's only for additional oxygenation during surgery, not as a full blood substitute 13:32 < kanzure> fenn: ah got it 13:32 < ParahSail1n> liver cell line makes human albumins 13:32 < kanzure> my point is that this is really helpful for maintaining organs with machines 13:33 < kanzure> especially if you do not need 1000s of bags of human blood trucked in from redcross 13:33 <@fenn> yes schloendorn has already done that, i saw it with my own eyes 13:33 < delinquentme> kanzure, you're saying the psuedo blood 13:33 < delinquentme> ? 13:33 < kanzure> fenn: done what? 13:33 <@fenn> 1 whole milliliter of mouse blood 13:33 <@fenn> using stem cells 13:33 < kanzure> you saw him do what exactly? 13:34 < delinquentme> ^^^^ 13:34 <@fenn> okay i took his word that he had derived it from stem cells, since it takes a couple days 13:34 < kanzure> i see 13:34 < delinquentme> blood? 13:34 < delinquentme> its not the lipid O2 binding stuff 13:34 < kanzure> but why does it matter? 1 mL isn't enough to prove anything, especially since the mouse has 100 or 200 mL i think. 13:35 * kanzure ponders total blood content of mouse 13:35 * delinquentme googles total blood content of mouse 13:35 <@fenn> the problem with stem cell blood production is the risk of teratoma, you have to carefully screen out any remaining stem cells 13:36 <@fenn> .wa mouse blood volume 13:36 < yoleaux> mice: maximum recorded blood mass (mass of blood as fraction of body mass): (4.6 to 7)%; Scientific name: Mus 13:36 <@fenn> .wa mouse mass 13:36 < yoleaux> mice: weight: (data not available); Scientific name: Mus 13:36 < nmz787_> .wa w.c. fields death 13:36 <@fenn> wtf srsly 13:36 < yoleaux> W. C. Fields: date of death: Wednesday, December 25, 1946; Date formats: 25 December 1946; Time difference from today (Friday, July 5, 2013): 66 years 6 months 11 days ago; 3471 weeks 2 days ago; 24299 days ago; 66.53 years ago; Time in 1946: 359th day; 52nd week; Observances for December 25, 1946 (United Kingdom): Christmas Day 13:36 < kanzure> i think the other problem is that you will end up with market demands for tranfusable blood for humans. so it will end up too costly to produce for just your own organ experiments. 13:36 <@fenn> how can wolfram not know the mass of a mouse 13:37 < delinquentme> https://www.google.com/patents/WO2013068753A1?cl=en&dq=organox&hl=en&sa=X&ei=QRPXUYzfFob9iQKYt4CAAw&sqi=2&pjf=1&ved=0CEwQ6AEwAw 13:37 < nmz787_> paperbot: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/bc050108%2B 13:37 < paperbot> error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/A%20Novel%20Fluorescent%20Probe%3A%20Europium%20Complex%20Hybridized%20T7%20Phage.txt 13:37 < delinquentme> fenn, correct 13:37 <@fenn> An adult mouse has a circulating blood volume of about 1.5-2.5 ml (6-8% of the body weight) 13:38 < kanzure> oh 13:38 < delinquentme> apparently its also substantially less complex to use similar cells and to coax into trans differentiation 13:38 < delinquentme> and NOT stem cells for that reason 13:39 <@fenn> correct 13:39 < nmz787_> I love my pdf uploader bookmarklet! 13:39 <@fenn> progenitor cells 13:39 < nmz787_> it unfortunately fails for iframe pdfs 13:40 < nmz787_> i still haven't found a way to grab the pdf from RAM 13:40 < nmz787_> i guess adobe must be a web plugin 13:40 <@fenn> can't you just look in the iframe for the pdf? 13:40 < nmz787_> well but where /is/ the binary 13:40 < nmz787_> ? 13:40 <@fenn> it's