--- Log opened Tue Aug 06 00:00:47 2013
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00:40 < ThomasEgi> wasn't someone looking for those car-related papers to be released?
00:40 < ThomasEgi> http://blog.ioactive.com/2013/08/car-hacking-content.html might be just that.
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04:07 < wrldpc> Root Wolpe is a fucking idiot.
04:08 < wrldpc> I'm certainly not a Kurzweil flag waver, but Wolpe is a fucking dilettante.
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04:34 < nmz787> paperbot: http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/iafp/jfp/1999/00000062/00000002/art00016?token=004d12f99a41333c4a2f7a736a5e3b20674723773b254f6d6222346b62687630502163b172b11
04:35 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/5f0d29aff3dd6e90628a3bae0da6ee2a.txt
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04:44 < archels> wrldpc: FUD
04:46 < wrldpc> aye
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05:48 < drazak> kanzure: meh, that derek guy is in victoria
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08:09 <@kanzure> beep
08:09 <@kanzure> victoria? that loser.
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08:12 <@kanzure> heath: i still don't understand why you are obsessed with all of these broken methods
08:12 < drazak> kanzure: yeah
08:13 < ParahSail1n> broken methods?
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08:13 <@kanzure> ParahSail1n: you aren't going to outrace a supercomputer with dna
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08:33 <@kanzure> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mossmann/hackrf-an-open-source-sdr-platform
08:34 < drazak> kanzure: you think about kickstartering the dna synth project?
08:36 <@kanzure> no. money isn't the problem.
08:36 < drazak> o.O
08:36 < drazak> where are you getting your funding?
08:36 < drazak> I will work for you
08:36 <@kanzure> i work my ass off so that i can fund this shit but you guys keep giving me the finger
08:36 < drazak> >.>
08:37 <@kanzure> what would i pay you for btw?
08:37 <@kanzure> i remember you used to be way better than me at chemistry
08:38 < drazak> dunno, I'm ok at stuff, once I am not having fucked up days regarding housework and emotions I'm gonna take a good look at this
08:46 <@kanzure> eww why does this require qt http://openbiometrics.org/
08:46 < drazak> lol
08:46 <@kanzure> oh, for building
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08:49 < chris_99> half duplex seems quite a big limitation of hackrf
08:50 < gradstudentbot> Sorry, I can't really talk right now because I'm burried in grant writing.
08:54 < superkuh> For some applications, I guess. I'll be picking one up for solar radio astronomy due to the excellent frequency coverage.
08:55 < chris_99> i'm hoping to get bladerf when it's out
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10:18 < heath> kanzure: it's just something to work on
10:19  * heath enjoyed Anne Condon's talk last night
10:19 <@kanzure> but why not work on other things? go make that brain zapper gun.
10:19 < ParahSailin> brain zapper?
10:20 < heath> tdcs i'm assuming
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10:20 <@kanzure> i was being intentionally vague because any working brain zapper is probably better than trying to force dna to do things that it doesn't do
10:21 < heath> working on dna folding pathways isn't a terrible idea
10:21 < heath> it naturally folds
10:21 < ParahSailin> can you disable certain lobes of the brain using tdcs?
10:22 < heath> i'm not sure, that's something i don't care to try
10:22 < ParahSailin> wimp
10:23 < heath> kanzure: maybe you're being sarcastic and i'm not picking it up through IRC. what else are you going to use the oligos for once you finally have a machine to synthesize them?
10:24 < ParahSailin> make teh genes
10:24 < heath> :) for?
10:24 < superkuh> It is really lame that, "The NCBI web site requires JavaScript to function."
10:24 < ParahSailin> put dna constructs into teh things
10:25 < ParahSailin> you have any idea how long "routine cloning" takes?
10:25 <@kanzure> heath: primers. genes. genomes (not really, but theoretically you can eventually make genomes).
10:25 < ParahSailin> huge waste of time and bottleneck in molecular biology
10:26 <@kanzure> hell, just primers would be worth it
10:28 < ParahSailin> maybe
10:29 < heath> "put dna constructs into things", e.g. cells.. making genomes, and then putting them into... cells. isn't this synthetic biology, an despised around here?
10:29 < heath> an +area
10:29 < heath> superkuh: w3m seems to work on ncbi's site
10:29 < ParahSailin> didnt know we despised biology
10:33 <@kanzure> wha?
10:33  * kanzure scratches his head
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10:48 <@kanzure> grr i think the http://n.tkte.ch/ commit bots are blocked on freenode
10:49 <@kanzure> ParahSail1n: https://github.com/kanzure/papermonk and https://npmjs.org/package/papermonk
10:49 <@kanzure> ParahSail1n: i know it's not much for now, but i'm busy doing other things for the next few hours
11:10 < heath> power went out briefly
11:20 < heath> once you make some constructs using dna, it's logical to place them inside cells, i'm definitely not opposed to working with cells, i was confused about the feelings toward synthetic biology
11:20 < heath> looking through the logs, it looks like it's more toward biobricks and igem
11:20 < heath> https://gist.github.com/heath/03347981b8c466e28e09/raw/6b3feebb906b9bd6c432a8835a29b8db87f5d08a/gistfile1.txt
11:20 <@kanzure> there's definitely a lot of hype around synthetic biology that is unwarranted
11:20 <@kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6166292
11:20 < yoleaux> Security advisory: Breach and Django | Hacker News
11:23 < ParahSailin> kanzure: so the downloaders should be able to do dom selectors, compose functions with results of dom selectors, and maybe do arbitrary javascript functions that are aware of page dom?
11:23 <@kanzure> well, i have a few thoughts about that
11:23 <@kanzure> first, you have previously convinced me that we shouldn't allow downloaders to just use phantomjs or w/e
11:24 <@kanzure> second, i think some downloaders will choose to use jsdom but most will not require it
11:24 <@kanzure> i am gonna try to make sure most of the downloaders use the glorious "request" library, because it seems to be a good way to do asynchronous streaming requests and pdf downloads and stuff
11:25 <@kanzure> ideally most downloaders will use the same tooling as each other
11:25 < ParahSailin> i think the eDSL defined by zotero is a good starting point, but could be generalized to be more complete
11:25 <@kanzure> one idea was that there can be a library that all downloaders use
11:25 <@kanzure> and this intermediate library will expose jsdom
11:25 <@kanzure> and then all downloaders should have only that one dependency
11:25 < ParahSailin> not saying use any of their stuff, but create a similar edsl
11:25 <@kanzure> that way we can force people to approve extra dependencies
11:25 <@kanzure> (or something)
11:25 <@kanzure> because i don't want there to be 10 different dependencies that all handle dom parsing or some shit. that's going to be stupid/annoying/bad.
11:26 <@kanzure> maybe i will just have a review process before accepting a new downloader into the papermonk module
11:26 < ParahSailin> all of them probably will need jsdom though?
11:26 <@kanzure> each module will have its own package.json file that will specify their dependencies
11:27 <@kanzure> npm is smart enough to not download the same dependency twice (unless a different version is required)
11:28 <@kanzure> http://breachattack.com/resources/BREACH%20-%20SSL,%20gone%20in%2030%20seconds.pdf
11:30 < ParahSailin> id say make jsdom and sizzle default requires
11:32 <@kanzure> it will be up to each individual module
11:32 <@kanzure> what is sizzle?
11:33 < ParahSailin> sizzle is the dom selector library used in everything else
11:33 <@kanzure> i think people will just use jsdom + jquery
11:34 < ParahSailin> yeah sizzle is the selector that jquery uses
11:34 <@kanzure> didn't know. cool.
11:34 < ParahSailin> you dont need the other jquery stuff like dom manipulation and fancy traversal bla etc
11:35 <@kanzure> also i should rewrite pdfparanoia into javascript for streaming watermark removal reasons
11:35 < ParahSailin> how fast is pdfparanoia
11:35 < superkuh> I have disabled compression on his nginx http, https, and https tor hidden service. No more problems with BREACH, right?
11:36 < superkuh> s/his/my/
11:36 <@kanzure> don't you run lighttpd somewhere?
11:37 < superkuh> Nope. I used to use thttpd but I've moved on.
11:38 <@kanzure> the only other thing i can think of is that you might want to be cautious about what you do over HTTPS in the near future (as a user)
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12:12 < ParahSailin> kanzure: instead of allowing people to write arbitrary and verbose javascript for each scraper, we should nudge them into writing maintainable ones in this style https://gist.github.com/rcallahan/0748c6b40f590d43e096
12:13 <@kanzure> the only argument i can see in favor of that is that testing becomes more discrete over the keys that they expose
12:14 <@kanzure> but that's the only benefit i can think of
12:14 <@kanzure> and the downside is that.. you can't write plain javascript anymore. isn't that whta went wrong with zotero? and everything else?
12:15 < ParahSailin> well zotero exposes their dsl as well as plain freeform javascript
12:15 <@kanzure> their dsl is silly. what's the point of the zotero dsl?
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12:15 < ParahSailin> for the most part, their translators only need to do xpath selectors and compositions of functions on those
12:16 < ParahSailin> so it makes it more concise and readable for the majority of the translators
12:16 < ParahSailin> and enforces a uniform style
12:16 <@kanzure> how would this handle things like, "scraping an index of an issue of a journal"?
12:17 < ParahSailin> so, page navigation?
12:17 < ParahSailin> i think that could be written in a nonspaghetti way as well
12:17 <@kanzure> well, maybe.. i think zotero does it without navigating to each paper's page. this is maybe a dumb idea.
12:17 < heath> "Animations with eCommerce is an attempt by companies to make the intangible tangible - Heath Matlock #fowd"
12:17 < heath> what? i never said that
12:18 < heath> "Consider caching vectors drawn by canvas as a bitmap to help with performance - Heath Matlock #fowd"
12:18 <@kanzure> heath: you probably got hit by a js exploit
12:18 < heath> i never said that either
12:18 < heath> http://eventifier.co/event/fowdnyc/hellohynes
12:18 < heath> i don't know what's going on
12:18 <@kanzure> your twitter account might have been hijacked
12:18 <@kanzure> either through cookie stealing, an xss attack, password guessing, etc.
12:18 < heath> oh that's possible, i have a weak password
12:21 < heath> *had* a weak password, now
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13:02 <@kanzure> heath: quick, arguments against a javascript dsl for writing paper scrapers?
13:03 <@kanzure> heath: context is https://github.com/kanzure/papermonk https://npmjs.org/package/papermonk https://gist.github.com/rcallahan/0748c6b40f590d43e096
13:04 < heath> it isn't coffeescript or livescript :)
13:05 <@kanzure> both coffeescript and livescript can write in that dsl
13:05 <@kanzure> you're lying
13:05 < heath> :)
13:06 <@kanzure> like, there's no way you don't know that about coffeescript
13:07 < heath> i like this
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13:08 < heath> what is the ddDoi?
13:09 < heath> i know what doi is, but i don't know what dd stands for
13:09 < heath> ah
13:11 <@kanzure> me either
13:11 <@kanzure> why do you like it though
13:11 < heath> is the .bind you're own method or are you using Function.prototype.bind?
13:12 <@kanzure> i have no idea
13:12 <@kanzure> (this is why i am objecting to it)
13:12 < ParahSailin> i didnt know that was a reserved word in javascript
13:12 <@kanzure> it's for scope binding
13:12 < ParahSailin> its (>>=) in haskell
13:12 < heath> as is .call
13:13 < heath> that's for binding to a monadic context, similar, but not exactly the same
13:14 < ParahSailin> no i mean what im defining
13:14 < heath> oh, i didn't notice rcallahan
13:14 < ParahSailin> oh, yeah my github is under a "professional" name
13:15 < heath> i just saw kanzure/papermonk and assumed the gist was from the same person
13:16 <@kanzure> i wonder what this package is: jhove - JSTOR/Harvard Object Validation Environment
13:16 <@kanzure> http://hul.harvard.edu/jhove/
13:19 < nmz787> heath: I think you have it backwards somehow... we love synBio in here, we despise iGem
13:22 < heath> nmz787: i kind of figured that out, but thanks for clarifying, it's always nice to have a little more feedback
13:23 <@kanzure> to be fair, there's a lot of BS in synthetic biology that's not worth liking
13:24 < nmz787> i don't really despise iGem, actually, it's just really annoying how it's unavailable to anyone with less than $2.5-5k... and good teams probably get $5-20k spent total (depending if they get transport to the iGem jamboree, and if they get a sumnmer work stipend)
13:24 <@kanzure> well, their policies have changed to allow non-institutional teams (i think)
13:24 <@kanzure> jonathan has some more specific criticism that i'm sure he would be happy to share
13:24 < heath> see the beginning of 07-04-2013.log
13:24 < nmz787> yeah but to get the shit (plasmid/DNA) you have to pay a few thousand, then you'd need to drop out to not have to pay to attend the jamboree
13:26 < heath> "engines": { "node": ">0" }
13:26 < heath> :)
13:29 < gradstudentbot> Don't mess with me, I'm a world pipetting champion 14 years running.
13:29 <@kanzure> heath: because sometimes i write things for phantomjs
13:29 <@kanzure> heath: and it's a different engine
13:32 <@kanzure> wow "Amazon Web Services (AWS) (hosting) allows customers to run any type of Tor servers provided abuse complaints are handled in a timely manner"
13:32 <@kanzure> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/GoodBadISPs
13:35 <@kanzure> haha what "RoadRunner (TimeWarner) (USA): Very reliable service. Been running web server on 80 for several years. IP changes when cable modem reset (almost never for me). No ports blocked (that I know of). No BW limits, only speed caps. I've got 5Mbps down/384kbps up. Definitely recommend. Running Tor since Jan 06. -- MichaelAnsel"
13:36 < heath> link comes from a short email exchange on diybio between nmz and zayner
13:36 < heath> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/diybio$20resource$20utilization/diybio/uwYWESC4kpY/fKOq0Ev2SygJ
13:36 < heath> paperbot: http://www.jbioleng.org/content/3/1/11/abstract
13:36 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1186%2F1754-1611-3-11
13:39 < gradstudentbot> Coffee? Never tried it.
13:39 < nmz787> heath: that's open access http://www.jbioleng.org/content/pdf/1754-1611-3-11.pdf
13:40 < nmz787> detail
13:40 < nmz787> !
13:48  * heath imagines something like this as scienceDirect: {doi: "#foobar", doiExtraction:  function() {}, paperLink: "#bazqux", supplementary: [], suppExtraction: function (){} }
13:49 < heath> not sure if a json would ever be preferential
13:50 < heath> a json +format
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13:53 <@kanzure> heath: the bibliometricdata object is always json serializable. it must be.
13:54 <@kanzure> heath: and if we're lucky we could maybe maintain compatibility with zotero's json output
13:55 < cogitokat> when did it become bibliometricdata instead of bibliometadata? d:
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14:11 <@kanzure> cogitokat: oops
14:12 <@kanzure> well, bibliometricmetadata sounds a little bit cooler maybe
14:14 < cogitokat> Isn't bibliometrics a thing that is something slightly different? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibliometrics
14:14 <@kanzure> "Bibliometrics is a set of methods to quantitatively analyze scientific and technological literature."
14:14 <@kanzure> oh.. citation analysis.
14:14 <@kanzure> damn why do all of the cool terms have to be taken
14:14 < cogitokat> hahaha
14:15 < cogitokat> I wouldn't care except it might confuse people.
14:15 <@kanzure> it's fine, i should use a different term
14:15 < cogitokat> Papermonk needs bibliometric data to work? Hrmm..
14:15 <@kanzure> no
14:15 < cogitokat> lol
14:16 < cogitokat> I should have wrapped that in quotes.
14:16 <@kanzure> it extracts metadata, authors, titles, institution addresses/names, email addresses, abstracts, etc.
14:16 <@kanzure> ah okay
14:23 < ParahSailin> well, if you get from dx.doi.org with the correct headers you will get metadata serialized in json, rdf, xml, whatever
14:23 <@kanzure> can you show me some of the json output?
14:24 <@kanzure> i am curious how thorough/accurate/correct it is
14:25 < ParahSailin> curl -LH "Accept: application/rdf+xml;q=0.5, application/vnd.citationstyles.csl+json;q=1.0" http://dx.doi.org/10.1126/science.169.3946.635
14:26 <@kanzure> cool
14:26 <@kanzure> {"volume":"169","issue":"3946","DOI":"10.1126/science.169.3946.635","URL":"http://dx.doi.org/10.1126/science.169.3946.635","title":"The Structure of Ordinary Water: New data and interpretations are yielding new insights into this fascinating substance","container-title":"Science","publisher":"American Association for the Advancement of Science","issued":{"date-parts":[[1970,8,14]]},"author":[{"family":"Frank","given":"H. ...
14:27 <@kanzure> ... S."}],"editor":[],"page":"635-641","type":"article-journal"}
14:27 <@kanzure> how is there no editor?
14:27 <@kanzure> also, how should we handle utf8 and latin1 abstracts?
14:28 < ParahSailin> seems reasonable
14:28 < heath> "each mL of sea water has about a million bacteria and on the order of 10 million viruses"
14:28 < heath> i wonder if surfers have a healther immune system then myself
14:28 <@kanzure> only if they are bad at it
14:29 < gradstudentbot> Blah, I'm going to quit.
14:30 < nmz787> http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2013/06/25/biocurious-hackerspace-biology
14:33 <@kanzure> it's just a guest post by eri
14:33 <@kanzure> "One of the biggest challenges I’ve faced is how to become involved in science as a non-scientist." that's the stupidest shit i've ever heard
14:34 <@kanzure> "A hackerspace devoted to biology had never been attempted before" except for, you know, hackteria
14:34 < nmz787> paperbot: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/nl401219v
14:34 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/44c12c90f608fde59b5c777c75f8a160.pdf
14:35 <@kanzure> "Many said it wouldn’t work. It doesn’t simply work – it thrives." yeah.. if by "thrive" you mean "has 30 members and can't pay its bills". whatever.
14:35 < nmz787> wait so can anyone blog on the whitehouse's page?
14:35 <@kanzure> dunno, it just seems like a submit-a-person thing http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2013/07/31/nominate-white-house-champion-change-public-health-and-prevention
14:36 <@kanzure> i like how eri gets around with so many lies
14:36 <@kanzure> it's amazing
14:37 < nmz787> paperbot: http://www.opticsinfobase.org/abstract.cfm?id=119210
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14:38 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/79e32ccbfb4a62674cd9396fc7e6ac61.txt
14:38 <@kanzure> "One of the biggest challenges I’ve faced is how to become involved in science as a non-scientist."
14:39 <@kanzure> "One of the biggest challenges I’ve faced is how to become involved in science without actually calling myself a scientist."
14:39 < gradstudentbot> Well, I can't really talk about it because I'm trying to get it published in Science or Nature.
14:39 < nmz787> paperbot: http://www.opticsinfobase.org/as/viewmedia.cfm?uri=as-60-11-1341&seq=0
14:39 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/3389688efed025a60657600e88ba567.txt
14:40 < nmz787> kanzure: you can't really call bullshit on someone's opinion though, she was making an 'I feel' statement of sorts, so it can't really be *wrong*
14:40 <@kanzure> opinions can definitely be wrong
14:40 < nmz787> not in 'I feel' though
14:41 < nmz787> at least that's something therapists and help groups tell people... use 'I' statements so you don't offend people, etc
14:41 < nmz787> 'I feel you're being too harsh, Bryan' etc
14:41 < nmz787> rather than 'You're being too harsh Bryan'
14:41 <@kanzure> there's zero difference between those two. in either case you would have to show evidence of harshness unless you want me to start discounting your opinions.
14:42 < nmz787> the latter is an absolute statement, while the former is relative to the person's internal state
14:42 < nmz787> the difference is the 'I' component, changing fact to opinion...
14:43 <@kanzure> "i feel like it was okay to kill that person"
14:43 < nmz787> supposedly it makes a difference in group therapy, comes off as less pernicuous
14:43 < nmz787> pernicious*
14:44 < cogitokat> This is a really strange argument.
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14:45 < ParahSailin> yes, it has higher likelihood to trigger empathy circuits when you rephrase things certain ways
14:45 <@kanzure> i will choose to be emphatic when and if i deem necessary. covering up lies that eri posted on whitehouse.gov is not one of those times..
14:45 < ParahSailin> so biocurious has the support of the whitehouse now?
14:45 < nmz787> :P
14:46 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: depends on what you mean support. but yeah, i remember they were pretty chill with the testimony from the bioethics committee and that resulting pdf from a while back.
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15:14 <@kanzure> microryza is only up to 39 funded projects. hah.
15:27 < nmz787> we're thinking of doing one of those for a year or two of rent for a local space
15:27 <@kanzure> why? i suggest coming up with an alternative model, something that's not "rely on donations and membership fees"
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15:27 <@kanzure> cool "Nobody has ever been sued for running a Tor node."
15:31 <@kanzure> noisebridge provides 7% of tor's total exit node bandwidth? wtf.
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15:45 < nmz787> meh, why not rely on donations if they're available?
15:45 < nmz787> otherwise we don't have other ideas for raising money
15:45 < nmz787> and i didn't say anything about membership
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16:31 < streety> I think it is valid to use donations to get started. Multiple options for continuing operations would certainly be attractive though
16:31 <@kanzure> i think you can get a large pile of money doing typical biotech CRO things
16:31 < gradstudentbot> Who the hell stole my pipette?
16:32 <@kanzure> like, do 1 or 2 projects/month to get 10-20k of income
16:35 < streety> but then you're talking about salaried staff, lots of paperwork, marketing, sales etc
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16:35 <@kanzure> not necessarily salaried staff, but yeah that would be helpful
16:35 <@kanzure> i mean, what you basically just said "but that sounds like work"... and yes. that's the point?
16:35 <@kanzure> *said is
16:36 < streety> if you're not paying the staff then it is essentially donations, only of time rather than money
16:36 <@kanzure> hackerspaces attract a lot of talent. i would be very surprised if that talent couldn't be used to support a space, given the rates that competent hackers can get paid at.
16:36 <@kanzure> you can pay your staff and still have money leftover to run a space
16:36 <@kanzure> biocurious is only $3k/mo or something stupid
16:36 <@kanzure> a biotech contractor can easily earn up to 10 times as much, monthly
16:37 < gradstudentbot> Let's pour a bunch of chemlights into a spinner flask and claim it's luminescent e.coli.
16:38 <@kanzure> although, running an operation like that is certainly different
16:38 <@kanzure> the way i see it, you give up a lot of the community bickering in exchange for resources, but you also have to do some weird prioritizing about which projects get to have time on the bench
16:39 <@kanzure> which makes non-work-related-stuff a second class citizen :(
16:39 < streety> yeah, essentially a business which donates space and resources when convenient to the community
16:40 < gradstudentbot> The lab meeting was cancelled.
16:40 <@kanzure> "when convenient" eh.. that's going a little far.
16:40 <@kanzure> maybe it would do it always
16:40 < streety> fair comment
16:40 <@kanzure> i.e. the community projects would take priority
16:41 < streety> it could be a useful model, would likely have much better resources although the startup costs would also increase
16:42 <@kanzure> the startup cost for biotech consulting is mostly your time (a biotech consultant). once you can secure a contract you can lease space somewhere, and then hop around until you want your own place.
16:42 < nmz787> we essentially just want somewhere to teach workshops and screw around and work on our own startup ideas... no one really wants to run a big production
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17:01 < nmz787> kanzure: I could just add a FIB to the BOM, /Dylan has one/
17:01 < nmz787> the FEI dual beams are pretty damn nice
17:02 <@kanzure> dylan morris?
17:02 < nmz787> the SEM doesn't mill, so you can get nice imaging on precious samples
17:02 < nmz787> yes
17:02 <@kanzure> he wants to sell his?
17:02 < nmz787> prob not
17:03 <@kanzure> dual beam is just stereolithography?
17:03 < nmz787> it's likely their workhorse
17:03 < nmz787> nah
17:03 < nmz787> FEI's dual beam is a combo FIB + SEM
17:03 < nmz787> an e-beam and an ion beam
17:04 <@kanzure> isn't that a little gratuitous?
17:04 <@kanzure> hm.
17:04 < nmz787> you can get nano imagine with ions, but it mills primarily, and images with secondary ion emission... while the e-beam is just electrons so no milling
17:04 < nmz787> like I said, it's likely dylan's workhorse
17:05 < nmz787> the local company i talked to said in use they aren't that costly
17:05 <@kanzure> and you said 100 nm/sec milling?
17:05 < nmz787> and it looked like they just needed a nice software overhaul to make it more CNCscripatble
17:05 < nmz787> it depends on the spot size
17:06 < nmz787> at 1 micron cubed it's 100 cubic microns per second
17:06 < nmz787> kanzure: http://www.oregon-physics.com/lab_services/images/spot_size.gif
17:06 < nmz787> bbl
17:09 < ParahSail1n> kanzure, are you really desperate for something to put your money into?
17:10 <@kanzure> definitely not desperate. that's why i keep rejecting all the stupid crap i'm hearing.
17:11 <@kanzure> although.. it would be nice to work on these things sooner rather than later, because future bryan is going to be angry/annoyed that he has to do it.
17:12 <@kanzure> also, i'll write a downloader in a bit. i'm currently fixing cygwin/dll issues.
17:14 < nsh> <---- money goes here plskthx
17:15 < ParahSail1n> anannie, you there?
17:15 < anannie> yes ParahSail1n
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17:37 < cpopell> that class was enlightening
17:37 < cpopell> I will revisit SBIR grants when we're a little better established I think
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17:54 < nsh> cpopell, what was the class on?
17:55 < cpopell> DoD SBIR/SBTT grants
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18:02 < ParahSail1n> kanzure, pm
18:03 <@kanzure> replied
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18:12 <@kanzure> i wonder if affiliate commissions are enabled for amazon's online art marketplace thing.
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19:23 < nmz787> anyone know of something like https://floobits.com/
19:23 < nmz787> but freeer?
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19:38 < heath> nmz787: c9.io
19:39 <@kanzure> is that going to be cloud9? god i hope not.
19:39 < heath> yeah
19:39 < heath> it's 'freeer'
19:39 <@kanzure> ugh. i never understood cloud9... why not just use ssh -X.
19:39 < heath> ick
19:40 <@kanzure> "oh no you have to know commands??"
19:40 <@kanzure> yes.. well.. get over it.
19:40 < heath> vim scp://
19:40 <@kanzure> ah yes because you edit code that's already deployed in production? ;)
19:40 < heath> :P
19:41 <@kanzure> wait, what? i'm not arguing that ssh -X is a good way to edit code.
19:41 <@kanzure> but if you want to use eclipse (or whatever other awful ide of the week) and "in the cloud" then -X seems to be what you want.
19:42 < heath> just saying, if you have to edit remotely, i'd much rather fetch the data, edit local, and send it back using process that involves in emacs/vim land
19:43 <@kanzure> what do you use for mocks in javascript?
19:43 <@kanzure> i'm thinking of mockery
19:44 < heath> sinon, but it may not be what you are thinking
19:44 < heath> the v8 team uses a free lib specifically because of a decent mocking lib...
19:44 < heath> the the lack of..*
19:44 <@kanzure> this looks like jasmine?
19:44 < heath> i can't talk
19:45 <@kanzure> or chia or something
19:45 <@kanzure> assert(callback.called); is kinda nice
19:45 <@kanzure> but trivial
19:45 < heath> mocha + chia + sinon is my testing suite, but it's just what i'm accustomed to
19:45 <@kanzure> it doesn't seem to mock out require() ?
19:46 <@kanzure> do i need to mock require()? i'm trying to decide.
19:46 < gradstudentbot> Hey, let's write a paper about that.
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19:46 < Not-003> [kanzure/papermonk] kanzure pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/Ev8y-A
19:46 < Not-003> [kanzure/papermonk] kanzure 3578ccc - attach the list of downloaders to Papermonk This will be helpful for investigating which downloaders are available, plus it's better to use a local variable than a global that is just aimlessly floating around.
19:46 < Not-003> [kanzure/papermonk] kanzure 93fcb2a - make require("papermonk").Papermonk work This exposes the Papermonk object immediately on the module. This is nice for playing with the constructor instead of only using whatever instance the module gives back by default.
19:46 <@kanzure> i just wanna write some good tests for https://github.com/kanzure/papermonk/blob/master/index.js
19:48 <@kanzure> i was thinking of using https://github.com/substack/tape
19:48 <@kanzure> but also https://github.com/mfncooper/mockery seems useful
19:54 < heath> a guy who has more experience than myself uses jasmine + mockery
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20:00 < heath> https://github.com/arunoda/nodemock is a decent library as well
20:00 <@kanzure> the other ridiculous requirement is that it must be something that can conceivably work in a browser, possibly via browserify
20:01 <@kanzure> nodemock looks cool. but i worry about mocking require(). oh right i probably don't need it. i keep forgetting.
20:28 < cpopell> nmz787: why not just talk to ggreer?
20:28 < cpopell> he's a LWer, he may be sympathetic to your needs
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21:54 < drazak> kanzure: this dakota guy sounds like an idiot
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22:13 <@kanzure> drazak: hah.
22:15 < drazak> kanzure: why wouldn't you flame sterilie? you need a fucking lighter
22:15 < drazak> and nobody does bacterial cultures in a flow hood, that's why we HAVE flame sterilization
22:16 < drazak> jesus
22:20 < ParahSail1n> nobody's stealing your fire, prometheus
22:26 < Not-003> [kanzure/papermonk] kanzure pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±2] http://git.io/NHC3oQ
22:26 < Not-003> [kanzure/papermonk] kanzure 4638220 - write a pile of tests There will also be tests that confirm that papermonk works inside of a browser. But not yet. Run the tests with: node tests.js version bump to: v0.0.2
22:26 < Not-003> [kanzure/papermonk] kanzure tagged 4638220 as v0.0.2 http://git.io/3m8-rg
22:27 < ParahSail1n> well thats a good argument in favor of scraper dsl
22:28 < ParahSail1n> if you want the same modules to work in the browser and in node or everywhere else, you dont want http.get or xhr.get stuff in the scraper code
22:28 <@kanzure> that's what http://browserify.org/ is for
22:29 <@kanzure> there are compatibility modules that browserify injects for http.get and request.get to work
22:29 <@kanzure> including most of the core node stuff like event emitters and streams and stuff
22:29 < gradstudentbot> Argh, what do you mean you don't accept LaTeX submissions??
22:29 < ParahSail1n> ah
22:29 < drazak> kanzure: do you have more stuff on your dna synthesizer?
22:29 <@kanzure> drazak: not really. the design is still up in the air.
22:30 < ParahSail1n> have you thought more where you're going with the oligo synthesis
22:31 < ParahSail1n> maybe just stick with the avastin thing
22:31 <@kanzure> you mean primers versus other things? i fully expect primers to be way easier than 2 kbp proteins.
22:31 < drazak> kanzure: what's your budget?
22:31 < drazak> I have an idear
22:31 <@kanzure> drazak: limitless. but please act like i am not a bottomless pit of money.
22:32 < drazak> nah
22:32 < ParahSail1n> kanzure, i mean, end goal
22:32 < drazak> just thinking how I would do it on a slightly larger than micro scale
22:32 < drazak> it might be worth it to prototype a somewhat more traditional method to get the physical stuff down
22:32 <@kanzure> ParahSail1n: end goal is a cheap machine <$5k in parts each. uh, also at minimum, doing primer synthesis.
22:33 < ParahSail1n> if you don't have a good idea how you're gonna get to bigmers, then you might as well let idt do their job
22:33 <@kanzure> i don't care if it costs more than $5k to make the first one, but the point is that these machines shouldn't cost more than the reagents
22:33 < drazak> right
22:33 <@kanzure> i'm not targeting longmers right now
22:33 < ParahSail1n> because i dont think their profit margins are very high, and they're probably cutting costs as fast as practicable
22:33 < drazak> and the reagents seem expensive
22:34 <@kanzure> idtdna employs a single person to build their custom synthesizers. i doubt they have explored the "let's make a cheaper synthesizer" option that well.
22:34 < ParahSail1n> hm
22:35 < ParahSail1n> how do you know they just have one person doing that
22:36 <@kanzure> informants. to be honest i haven't confirmed it from anyone else.
22:36 <@kanzure> so, possibly bad information :)
22:36 <@kanzure> i bet it's cheaper for them to lease machines than it is for them to build them
22:36 <@kanzure> they are a services company not a hardware engineering team
22:36 < ParahSail1n> so the working theory is that idt just cobbles bits from overpriced commercial offerings
22:37 <@kanzure> dunno about bits
22:37 < ParahSail1n> and that we could build a cheaper machine
22:37 <@kanzure> they also have a buyback program
22:37 <@kanzure> well, i know the central thesis is true, but it still needs to be ("it's possible to build something cheaper than $50k that can synthesize primers")
22:37 <@kanzure> not the most shocking statement to make.. but it doesn't matter. you still need the machine at some point.
22:38 <@kanzure> erm *still needs to be shown
22:43 <@kanzure> that's lousy reasoning
22:43 <@kanzure> too much javascript tonight
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22:59 < fredox> kanzure: limitless?
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