--- Log opened Mon Sep 30 00:00:40 2013
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07:34 < FourFire> Greetings
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08:02 < kanzure> FourFire: hi.
08:32 < kanzure> nmz787: maybe one of these http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/920064946/oscilloscope-watch (i'm kidding)
08:34 < blueskin> nice.
08:34 < blueskin> (ShutUpAndTakeMyMoney.png)
08:34 < kanzure> -100 points for referring to a stupid image macro
08:35 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o kanzure] by ChanServ
08:38 < FourFire> What's the most interesting topic that has been raised in here in the last week?
08:39 <@kanzure> the python brlcad wrappers.
08:39 <@kanzure> they have been about 4 years coming, sorry for the delay.
08:43 < FourFire> oh, I'm afraid i do not understand, please educate me in the interest part of that
08:44 < ParahSailin> heh hardware rng that has firmware to ensure that the same "random" number doesnt occur twice in a row
08:44 <@kanzure> cad allows you to computationally define hardware in a standard way
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08:45 < FourFire> CAD as in Autocad and related software?
08:45 < ParahSailin> im on windows machine now, do you still need that help?
08:45 <@kanzure> FourFire: well, i said brlcad, not autocad
08:45 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: yes :(
08:45 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: do you have pip.exe installed?
08:46  * archels swigs kanzure 
08:46 <@kanzure> FourFire: brlcad is the open source one written by the military. autocad is the commercial one.
08:46 < FourFire> ok
08:47 <@kanzure> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ucy1SxsqTfI/UVc0SekCC6I/AAAAAAAAAfE/CZoBo9SieYg/s1600/cad.png
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08:47 < ParahSailin> kanzure: sure
08:47 <@kanzure> http://www.cadcamcube.jp/image/brlcad02.jpg
08:47 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: pip install http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/thing_postinstall-0.0.1.tar.gz
08:47 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: oops i mean C:\Python27\Scripts\pip.exe install http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/thing_postinstall-0.0.1.tar.gz
08:51 < ParahSailin> "NameError: global name 'WindowsError' is not defined"
08:51 <@kanzure> C:\Python27\Scripts\pip.exe --version
08:52 <@kanzure> i'm curious what the version number is. but also, if it's less than 1.4, it's time to upgrade..
08:52 <@kanzure> C:\Python27\Scripts\pip.exe install -U pip
08:54 < ParahSailin> 1.4.1
08:55 <@kanzure> well, i'm not throwing a WindowsError, so this seems to be a library problem
08:55 <@kanzure> is there a traceback?
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09:03 < ParahSailin> lol why is it looking for a "/home/kanzure/local/brlcad/brlcad/include/bu.h"
09:04 < ParahSailin> you actually have a '#include "/home/kanzure/local/brlcad/brlcad/include/bu.h"' in a source file
09:07 < ParahSailin> thing_postinstall/post_install.py:            "header": "/home/kanzure/local/brlcad/brlcad/include/{0}.h".format(brlcad_library_name),
09:08 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: true, but that shouldn't matter right now
09:08 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: i am just testing that the basic library can be installed
09:08 < ParahSailin> gcc seems to care
09:08 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: and then i'll work on doing correct path searching
09:09 <@kanzure> ah interesting, i don't have gcc installed on the windows vm i was using, so it went further
09:10 <@kanzure> it was erroring out at the second imp.load_source call
09:10 <@kanzure> not the first one.. which is weird..
09:11 < ParahSailin> yeah i get that imp_load traceback too
09:12 < ParahSailin> imp.load..
09:13 <@kanzure> so, i found it odd because the path actually does exist
09:13 <@kanzure> and if i try the imp.load_source( same path ) in a python repl, i get the same error
09:13 <@kanzure> i haven't investigated the contents of the file tho
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09:21 < ParahSailin> ctypesgen has a bug too
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09:34 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: what's the bug?
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09:37 < ParahSailin> https://code.google.com/p/ctypesgen/issues/detail?id=45&sort=-id
09:38 <@kanzure> are you using cygwin python?
09:38 <@kanzure> anyway, this .tar.gz is actually using my fork of ctypesgen
09:38 <@kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/ctypesgen/commits/develop
09:38 <@kanzure> check setup.py for the exact branch i'm currently using
09:39 < ParahSailin> tried with cygwin and under cmd
09:39 <@kanzure> both times you get the WindowsError thing?
09:39 < ParahSailin> yeah
09:40 < ParahSailin> because its not finding whatever dll its supposed to be finding
09:41 <@kanzure> oh wait, that's interesting
09:41 <@kanzure> what? so right now i have those stupid hardcoded paths
09:41 <@kanzure> on my test vm, i installed brlcad for windows
09:41 <@kanzure> so, it's possible that ctypesgen is replacing .so with .dll and then finding the dll file on my system
09:42 <@kanzure> but i don't expect it t obe that clever
09:42 <@kanzure> i mean, it does have some default search-for-dlls support, but i have no idea if it is mangling my libbu.so strings to libbu.dll on its own. that's fucking nuts.
09:42 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, but biobricks don't even work.
09:42 <@kanzure> if you install brlcad, it might get past that.
09:43 <@kanzure> x86_64 http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad/files/BRL-CAD%20for%20Windows/7.24.0/BRL-CAD_7.24.0_x64.exe/download
09:43 <@kanzure> x86 http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad/files/BRL-CAD%20for%20Windows/7.24.0/BRL-CAD_7.24.0_x86.exe/download
09:48 < ParahSailin> well, if you're making stuff that links to brl-cad libraries, probably a good idea for the linker to be able to find them
09:49 <@kanzure> on linux, the default shared-library-search-stuff provided by ctypesgen doesn't work for brlcad because brlcad installs itself to a non-standard place (/usr/lib/brlcad/lib/ and /usr/lib/brlcad/include/)
09:49 <@kanzure> i guess on windows, brlcad installs its dlls correctly
09:52 < gradstudentbot> Do I use a one or two sided t-test for that?
09:53 <@kanzure> note that if you choose to install brlcad to try to proceed that it probably wont work under cygwin unless you find a version of brlcad compiled for cygwin
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10:15 < chris_99> paperbot: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1739154
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10:54 < nmz787> chris_99: http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/AlienVault_the_Future_of_Security_Information_Management_.html.pdf
10:54 < nmz787> chris_99: it's actually html, not PDF, my bookmarklet appended the pdf
10:55 < nmz787> chris_99: ok this works http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/AlienVault_the_Future_of_Security_Information_Management_.html
10:55 < chris_99> oh thanks a lot
10:56 < nmz787> chris_99: sorry pics didn't come through for me either
10:57 < chris_99> oh yeah what ADC did you use for your spectrometer out of interest
10:57 < nmz787> chris_99: here the original is free actually http://www.linuxjournal.com/magazine/alienvault-future-security-information-management
10:57 < nmz787> with pics
10:57 < nmz787> Wolfson
10:57 < chris_99> ooh thanks
10:57 < nmz787> gah openspectrometer.com is down
10:58 < chris_99> mm
10:58 < chris_99> how many bit is that?
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10:58 < nmz787> 16
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10:58 < nmz787> like $3 for 6MSPS
10:58 < chris_99> i'm looking for a non-differential adc to play with
10:58 < chris_99> oh nice!
10:58 < nmz787> I need to layout the board finally, was thinking of playing with it this week
10:59 < nmz787> got it all imported into kicad
10:59 < chris_99> cool
10:59 < nmz787> schematic wise
10:59 < nmz787> started laying out, but then halted since i knew nothing about analog
10:59 < nmz787> been a few months so I think I can make some more progress
10:59 < nmz787> there's also openADC
11:00 < nmz787> which is like 105 MSPS
11:00 < chris_99> are you spliting the analogue and digital planes
11:00 < nmz787> chris_99: i might be mistaken but can you just connect one side of a diff amp to ground?
11:00 < gradstudentbot> I am busy researching.
11:01 < nmz787> chris_99: haven't decided yet, there are conflicting views on doing that, I might just use a 4 layer board and a whole layer for ground
11:01 < chris_99> you can but they dont work as well as a normal one iirc
11:02 < chris_99> aha, i split the adc and digital + rail, on a board
11:02 < chris_99> i designed
11:02 < chris_99> using a ferrite bead and caps
11:02 < chris_99> i need to solder it up now
11:02 < chris_99> though
11:03 < nmz787> i heard a guy do that recently for a 24 MSPS setup
11:03 < nmz787> he wasn't dealing with super small signals, but he also employed some common-mode choke
11:03 < nmz787> which i need to learn about
11:03 < ParahSailin> what exactly is your goal for brlcad
11:05 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: python wrapper
11:05 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: without having to manually write 10,000 lines of code. there's no reason to commit the output of ctypesgen directly to the repo. it's generated code and it's disgusting.
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11:05 < ParahSailin> wrapper for mged?
11:06 <@kanzure> mged is the gui
11:06 <@kanzure> the interesting parts are libged, libwdb, librtgeom, i think
11:06 < ParahSailin> ah
11:06 < chris_99> nmz787, i'll try and find you the paper i based mine on
11:06 <@kanzure> anyway, brlcad has been getting lots of improvements to its nurbs support
11:08 < chris_99> nmz787, www.ti.com/lit/an/scaa048/scaa048.pdf
11:08 < ParahSailin> libged builds ok on cygwin
11:10 < ParahSailin> oops actually not
11:10 < nmz787> chris_99: cool, i'll check it out
11:11 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: why are you trying to build brlcad on cygwin?
11:11 < nmz787> somethng i read said to use a low q value inductor, for a power filter, but I don't know what q means!
11:13 < chris_99> does q normally mean charge
11:14 < chris_99> oh on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductor#Q_factor
11:14 < ParahSailin> because its the sane cli environment for windows
11:15 < nmz787> cygwin's always seemed clunky to me
11:15 < nmz787> it didn't install easily enough for the value
11:16 < ParahSailin> lol you had trouble installing cygwin?
11:19 < nmz787> idk, it's been a while since i tried
11:20 < nmz787> it wasn't 1 click, which is about all the patience i have on windows
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11:23 <@kanzure> if you want one-click cygwin install, let me know
11:24 <@kanzure> i currently have a pile of python that hacks in over port 139 on windows and installs cygwin automatically
11:24 <@kanzure> doesn't even require a password if the version of windows is old enough
11:24 <@kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/impacket/tree/develop
11:24 <@kanzure> man i hate myself
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11:31 < ParahSailin> i dont think ctypesgen nor python know what to do with .lib dlls
11:35 < ParahSailin> maybe it just needs to be told here on line 235 that .lib files exist https://code.google.com/p/ctypesgen/source/browse/trunk/ctypesgencore/libraryloader.py
11:38 < ParahSailin> nope that fails horrible derpll = ctypes.WinDLL("c:\Program Files\BRLCAD 7.24.0\lib\libbn.lib")
11:51 < ParahSailin> might have to use cygwin
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12:05 < ParahSailin> its pretty awesome how tcl is included in every single library of brlcad
12:11 <@kanzure> i think by awesome you mean annoying
12:12 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: if you have to use absolute paths for now, that's fine. i was planning on fixing htis aspect later.
12:12 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: the main item of concern was the post install script for me. it's doing a lot of funky shit that setuptools wasn't meant to do (generating python modules, then loading those modules... yikes).
12:13 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: technically, it is possible to get rid of the requirement to load the python modules.. that's how i am scanning for which symbols are already available. but it might be possible to do that by introspection of the ctypesgencore results. this is how the generated libraries are able ot reference the same types. otherwise ctypesgencore will create a new struct_bu_whatever in libwdb.py and a different struct_bu_whatever type in ...
12:13 <@kanzure> ... libbu.py (and they won't be usable across boundaries).
12:13 <@kanzure> gosh that explanation might suck, let me know
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12:22 < ParahSailin> kanzure: no, actually ctypes will not load that file at all
12:22 < ParahSailin> it dies horribly when you try to load .lib files
12:22 < ParahSailin> and yeah, i was being facetious about tcl
12:24 <@kanzure> actually there's another ctypes loader function
12:24 < ParahSailin> which one is used for .lib files
12:24 <@kanzure> wait, what's wrong with the dll files?
12:25 <@kanzure> libbn.dll should be on your system somewhere now
12:25 < ParahSailin> thats what im trying to tell you
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12:25 <@kanzure> "No. ctypes relies upon the OS to actually load the library, and the OS doesn't provide any mechanism to load a ".lib" file. "
12:25 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: okay, one moment
12:26 < ParahSailin> for some reason brlcad windows has all those shared libs as .lib and not .dll
12:26 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: /join #brlcad
12:29 < ParahSailin> thats what i did
12:29 < ParahSailin> erp wrong window
12:30 < ParahSailin> is user brlcad there or something?
12:33 <@kanzure> he was around 20-25 minutes ago, he's probably just looking at code and not irc at the moment
12:35 <@kanzure> 19:06 < kanzure> where are dll files installed on windows for brlcad?
12:35 <@kanzure> 19:55 < brlcad> kanzure: I believe the dll's reside in the folder with the binaries (as is customary with most windows applications, especially those that avoid the registry)
12:36 <@kanzure> there was this other line of convo a while back where he said he might have to add a build step for the windows version, but i can't find evidence of this
12:36 < ParahSailin> there are _some_ dlls in that directory
12:37 < ParahSailin> wow wait why is openNURBS-static.lib 500+MB
12:45 <@kanzure> that's from rhino and possibly not brlcad's fault
12:45 <@kanzure> also that's something you should ask them
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12:48 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, it's the new grad student's fault.
12:55 < chido> is it just me or is grandstudentbot getting smarter
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12:58 < archels> *cough* mechanical Turk *cough*
12:58 < chris_99> haha
12:59  * juri_ adds brl-cad to the evaluation list.
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13:20 < ParahSailin> when you do "derp <(intask) >(outtask) &" stuff, bash should make it so that ^C does not kill the intask and outtask
13:21 <@kanzure> that might be a cygwin problem
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13:22 <@kanzure> archels: mturk isn't consistently funny
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13:25 < ParahSailin> nah this is a linux problem
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23:21 < justanotheruser> Hello
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--- Log closed Tue Oct 01 00:00:41 2013