--- Log opened Thu Nov 14 00:00:24 2013
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05:33 <@archels> Author=(Lee, S)
05:33 <@archels> Results: Approximately 149,693
05:33 <@archels> semantic web, where art thou
05:35 < EnLilaSko> Can anyone help me understand ligand binding assay?
05:36 < EnLilaSko> How they do it that is
05:37 < EnLilaSko> Or ho, this seems to explain it easy - http://www.htrf.com/sites/default/files/htrf/products/ligand-binding-assay-description.gif
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07:17 < foucist> the first step of transhumanism: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7FIvfx5J10
07:18 < foucist> it all starts with JCV
07:18 < foucist> D
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08:06 < entelechios> are the aaron schwartz jstor leaks searchable somewhere or do i gotta download all 33gigs? i'm in a country with shoddy internet service
08:07 < entelechios> but i'd like to see if an article is in there that i'd like to read
08:10 < ParahSai1in> paperbot: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/es401288x
08:10 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/2ab115be13e52bbb9fbd78ecddd0bd19.pdf
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08:31 < rkos> http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/11/christof-koch-panpsychism-consciousness/
08:31 < ParahSai1in> lol we dont do -psych- or consciousness here
08:31 < ParahSai1in> i think they do in ##lesswrong
08:34 < rkos> surely theres something useful in it
08:34 < ParahSai1in> you'd like ##lesswrong, stop fighting it
08:35 < eudoxia> it's just #lesswrong
08:35 < eudoxia> guess they don't respect Freenode's policies like we do
08:37 < rkos> mmkay
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09:45 < kanzure> entelechios: those 33 gigs are not the aaronsw jstor leaks. that was someone else.
09:50 < entelechios> yea i realized that soon after searching around earlier this morning heh
09:51 < entelechios> my memory can be fuzzy
09:51 < kanzure> "You are incorrect. This circuit can potentially apply unsafe currents across the patient. A standard medical biopotential measurement circuit will have single-point failure protection to prevent conditions like this. This is required by standards like EC11, EC13, and 60601. Those systems are extremely safe."
09:51 < kanzure> "Most hobbyist designs, like the one in this article, do not have such protection. Indeed, for this particular circuit, a simple static discharge, as might happen when you're applying the electrodes after walking over carpet, can fry the input amplifier, connecting it to the power rails. ESD (and, indeed, defibrillation -- which is about a thousand times more energy than ESD) protection would be present and required in any medical ...
09:51 < kanzure> ... biopotential amplifier, even unrelated to the single-point protection described above."
09:51 < kanzure> "'ve seen dozens of circuits for home EEG/ECG/EMG. Almost all of them, including this one, are a deathtrap. They will work okay most of the time. At some point, someone's going to kill themselves."
09:51 < entelechios> i'm just going to put it on my list of crap to hope is at the local uni next time i come around to a day off
09:51 < kanzure> "If the ESD failure happens to short out to power rails, your current will be your power rails divided by your electrode impedance. This distribution is described in EC11/EC13 (although electrode technology has improved since the days when those tests were done, so impedance is even lower). Even with the ancient electrodes in EC11/EC13, you would get unsafe currents some of the time. With modern electrodes, you would get unsafe currents much ...
09:51 < kanzure> ... of the time."
09:52 < entelechios> wow that sounds sketchy
09:52 < entelechios> having some mad scientist dumbass fry your brain by accident
09:52 < entelechios> thanks for the notification
09:53 < kanzure> well, no, the more important part of that quote is EC11, EC13, and 60601
09:53 < kanzure> the risk aversion is bullshit and ignorable
09:53 < foucist> "deathtrap" sounds like a serious exaggeration
09:53 < foucist> yeah
09:53 < foucist> FUD
09:53 < foucist> ignore FUD!
09:53 < kanzure> but the standards are probably useful
09:54 < foucist> unless designed by a committee
09:55 < kanzure> not all committee standards are useless
09:55 < kanzure> especially if you've never designed a circuit like that before
09:57 < foucist> generate a human competitive circuit using genetic/evolutionary computation instead! :P
09:57 < ThomasEgi> there are a number of worst-case failures one has to take care about when designing circuits like that. but if you know what you are doing it's not too much of a problem. many people however, have no clue what they do.
09:57 < foucist> www.human-competitive.org
09:58 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: sorry, can you clarify which situation is not a problem? (1) designing the additional safety features, or (2) not having them
09:58 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: your statement seems ambiguous
09:58 < ThomasEgi> designing a safe circuit
10:00 < kanzure> what sort of safety features would you want in a tdcs setup?
10:00 < foucist> well all you really need is "don't electrocute humans"
10:01 < foucist> that's just 1 safety feature
10:01 < kanzure> unfortunately i believe that is the function of tdcs
10:01 < ThomasEgi> esd protection, transient protection, a fast acting electronic current limiter, optional a slower mechanism to cut the lines, like a fuse, a galvanically non-coupled supply..
10:02 < ParahSai1in> er yeah, what exactly are people doing tdcs for
10:02 < ThomasEgi> most tdcs designs i saw so far were like a 2 9V batteries and a resistor, some very few actually contained a current regulator.
10:02 < ThomasEgi> both fail pretty much every single "security" aspect
10:03 < chris_99> that's scary
10:03 < foucist> can you kill someone with 2 9V batteries?
10:03 < foucist> well i suppose so
10:03 < ParahSai1in> in the right place
10:03 < ThomasEgi> you can kill someone with 1.5V battery
10:03 < foucist> just need transformer to get hte amperage
10:03 < chris_99> no you don't
10:03 < ThomasEgi> you don't need amperage or high voltages if it's in the wrong spot
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10:04 < ThomasEgi> a few nanoAmps and a few hundret millivolts are enough to make your heart stop if you have the wires in the wrong place
10:05 < foucist> ah
10:05 < ThomasEgi> usualy. voltages below 50V are not much of a deal since the skin has a high enough resistance to prevent any major current flow and thus bad effects.
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10:06 < ThomasEgi> but as soon as you drag electrode is, designed to lower that resistance..
10:06 < ThomasEgi> things require more attention.
10:07 < foucist> hmm, this is DC as well
10:07 < foucist> AC is safer is it not?
10:07 < foucist> how about AC-based tdcs?
10:07 < foucist> heh
10:07 < foucist> tesla ftw
10:08 < ThomasEgi> totaly depends on the parameters.
10:08 < ThomasEgi> unless you use very high frequencies.. AC is not much safer
10:08 < ThomasEgi> in some situations. it can be even worse.
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12:34 < kanzure> there should be a moon bounce inflation company that lets kids design moon bounces with 3d modeling and then lets them bounce in them
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12:36 < ParahSai1in> and by kids you mean you
12:37 < foucist> hmm, not a bad idea, but how expensive are moon bounce inflations?
12:37 < foucist> not counting the blowers (you can rent that)
12:37 < foucist> though blowers are typically a hundred bucks a day to rent .. hmm
12:37 < chris_99> moon bounce?
12:37 < kanzure> it's just a plastic manifold that you blow air into
12:37 < foucist> chris_99: those inflateable "buildings" that you crawl into and jump up and down inside them
12:37 < kanzure> well, not plastic actually. i don't know what the material is.
12:38 < chris_99> ah cool, i was confused as the only moon bounce i've heard of is bouncing radio waves off the moon heh
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12:49 < delinquentme> Anyone know of good published research on the interactions of cryoed cells reintegrating within tissues from the same individual?
12:53 < poppingtonic> hey bkero
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13:01 < ParahSai1in> scholar.google.com
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14:55 < bkero> poppingtonic: Hi! What's up?
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16:12 < poppingtonic> bkero: might be useful when you arrive. I've been here, great place. www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g294207-d754110-Reviews-Kikuyu_Lodge_Hotel_Safaris-Nairobi.html
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16:16 < bkero> poppingtonic: Looks nice! If I have some days in Nairobi I'd like to stay there.
16:20 < poppingtonic> cool, I'll introduce you to the owners when you come in!
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16:26 < poppingtonic> paperbot, http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/nature.2013.12190
16:26 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/7f92b807da17bf7e689c483390933981.txt
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16:33 < bkero> poppingtonic: Hah! What more could I ask for? That's awesome!!
16:37 < bkero> I'm booking all my plane tickets, etc, now.
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16:41 < poppingtonic> Excellent.
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18:28 < foucist> kanzure: jamesrobey.com/moon-bouncers.xls from www.real-inflatables.com
18:28 < foucist> looks like it can cost anywhere from $600-$2000 etc heh
18:31 < kanzure> that's not bad
18:32 < foucist> it's probably a viable biz idea.. almost like edutainment
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--- Log closed Fri Nov 15 00:00:25 2013