--- Log opened Mon Nov 25 00:00:35 2013
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10:26 < delinquentme> http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/1rfapt/given_polarized_photons_of_fixed_wavelengths_why/
10:31 < ParahSai1in> no reddit
10:31  * kanzure nods solemnly
10:40 < delinquentme> its meh asking a question
10:40 < delinquentme> Why if we can generate single photons of a known energy level do we have issues estimating exactly where that photon will hit a surface?
10:43 < ParahSai1in> schroedinger equation
10:45 < delinquentme> ParahSai1in, sure but once quantified they've collapsed into a known state
10:45 < delinquentme> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_eigenstates
10:46 < ParahSai1in> "known energy level" is not an observation
10:46 < delinquentme> right . thats determined at the source
10:46 < delinquentme> which is another question about lasers and distribution of the energy levels
10:46 < ParahSai1in> no
10:47 < delinquentme> or " what kind of distribution are we talking about when looking at a single laser... how tight is the distribution in that energy band ? "
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10:47 < ParahSai1in> the observation happens when it hits the surface...
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10:51 < ParahSai1in> reading textbooks is not an evil thing
10:52 < delinquentme> agreed, still in the process of learning speed reading.  So we really cannot determine the wave length of an emitted photon strictly by the power of the light source?
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10:53 < delinquentme> seems really counter-intuitive given that we specify lasers by wavelength
10:54 < ParahSai1in> since you are learning speed reading, ill wait till you've learned speed reading then read a qm textbook-- seems more efficient to me that way
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10:55 < delinquentme> have to disagree. It seems if you know the answer thats pretty darn efficient!
10:55 < kanzure> i still don't understand delinquentme's theory of knowledge or how the world is supposed to work according to him
10:55 < delinquentme> its like BAM. 2 paragraphs and a coffee later and we've solved the need for mask generation in chip design!
10:55 < delinquentme> kanzure, sure you dooo!
10:56 < ParahSai1in> lemme save you some time then, speed reading doesnt
10:56 < ParahSai1in> skip to the textbook step
10:56 < kanzure> ParahSai1in: 600 wpm is sometimes considered speed reading
10:56 < delinquentme> we've had the abstraction convo a million times
10:56 < kanzure> ParahSai1in: it never occurred to me but maybe delinquentme reads at 100-150 wpm
10:56 < delinquentme> its the same reason why I hope you guys would ask me questions on things I know about :D
10:57 < delinquentme> probs
10:57 < kanzure> uh, and what exactly do you know
10:58 < ParahSai1in> reading books makes smart
10:59 < delinquentme> kanzure, people skills
10:59 < ParahSai1in> and then once youve read a book, journal papers are like diffs going from book to updated book
11:00 < kanzure> ParahSai1in: eh that's not really true, often it's the first published paper that is more helpful than the textbooks
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11:00 < kanzure> "people skills! i'm a people person!!!!"
11:00 < delinquentme> seems you missed the meta reference there kanzure
11:01 < kanzure> oh so meta
11:01 < delinquentme> you shew smert
11:01 < kanzure> okay, look, i have no idea what you're talking about
11:01 < kanzure> i never claimed i was smart, fuck off
11:01 < delinquentme> its bad taste to ask people "what exactly do you know"
11:01 < kanzure> you were leading me on
11:01 < delinquentme> and its just vacant considering I've contributed to your code.
11:01 < kanzure> so i took it. don't get upset about that.
11:01 < kanzure> yes i'm aware you've contributed code before
11:02 < kanzure> but theoretically your answer would be more than "those 3000 lines of code i wrote"
11:02 < delinquentme> research papers are awesome but its really hard to pick out the quality shit. If it makes it to a text book one might assume its more rigorous
11:03 < ParahSai1in> its a good thing that qm is all in textbooks
11:03 < ParahSai1in> i recommend the blue one
11:05 < delinquentme> This is easy. You're essentially asking "why don't we use a focused free-electron laser to do maskless resist exposure," and the answer is that "we do in special cases, it's just not economical because of the cost of the machine, power consumption, and the very slow speed." If you're gonna have that fine control over your method of imparting energy to expose the photoresist, you might as well skip the mask entirely!
11:05 < delinquentme> Just because modern excimer laser light is polarized and single wavelength doesn't mean it is coherent by the time it reaches the wafer. Complex optics are still necessary, and the light will not behave ideally (example: shining through some parts of the mask to expose more than what is strictly exposed), some will be diffracted/refracted/reflected…etc. Light is not a bunch of tiny waveparticles in lockstep directly impinging on a perfectl
11:05 < delinquentme> y flat surface- the light itself is disorganized, and its interaction with any surface or any change of medium (both combined, really) is extremely complex.
11:10 < ParahSai1in> actually someone here wants to do all patterning with single point vector scanning as opposed to masks
11:18 < delinquentme> ParahSai1in, no idea who offhand?
11:19 < delinquentme> i liked this idea of the $500 AFM ... which could be used for atomic precision in mfg .. but IDK at what scale is that actually useful at
11:21 < delinquentme> im assuming that is also only say ... planar modifications ... as I know we can push around atoms with the AFM tips as it stands
11:39 < kanzure> afm is a very different technique, you're getting confused
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11:43 < ParahSai1in> its more meta to use hivemind and memes for thinking-- offload tasks like storage to other people and just query cloud for knowledge on demand
11:55 < entelechios> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23579320
11:55 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1177%2F0956797612464786
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12:30 < delinquentme> kanzure, yeah afm isn't using photo anything save for maybe images can be output
12:31 < delinquentme> ParahSai1in, I like that cellphone you're holding.
12:31 < delinquentme> I mean REALLY? You'd actually accuse me of something in such an unconsidered way ?
12:32 < delinquentme> photolithography comes at scale ... whereas pushing around individual atoms w a cantilever ... who knows
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12:37 < kaon> ua_, hey
12:38 < ua_> kaon, hi
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12:45 < ua_> :<
12:50 < ParahSai1in> what?
12:50 < ua_> <><
12:50 < ua_> a fish
12:51 < ThomasEgi> without eyes?
12:52 < Zhwazi> <:><
12:53 < Zhwazi> Flounder
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13:50 < pasky> hmm, what do you think about FDA vs. 23&me? i've been a bit dumbfounded and angried by FDA trying to shut it down (if in fact that's what's gonna happen, maybe they'll just radically change their advertising or quickly get the paperwork sorted out), but now that I've read more into it, I'm rather undecided whether the FDA doesn't have a point - or is it more likely political reasons are behind it?
13:52 < kanzure> sorry, which specific thing about FDA's complaint are you focused on
13:55 < delinquentme> TIL diarrhea is hereditary???
13:56 < ParahSai1in> 23andme has deep pockets, they arent going to shut down
13:59 < pasky> kanzure: well most news articles say that they are ordered to stop sales, but http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/2013/ucm376296.htm says they are ordered only to stop marketing it, so now I'm not sure what am I missing
14:00 < pasky> kanzure: otherwise, on their reasoning - whether 23&me really messed up badly
14:00 < kanzure> pasky: i'm confused if you are concerned about the regulatory environment, or some ethical questions like "should people be allowed to know their genome"
14:01 < pasky> about the regulatory environment
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14:47 < delinquentme> so say I just wanted to start working on getting cells to adhere and persist on some kind of micro fabricated structures
14:48 < delinquentme> the machines for such a thing are somewhat readily available right?
14:59 < ParahSai1in> scholar.google.com
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16:04 < kanzure> paperbot: http://elucidation.free.fr/parachuteBMJ.pdf
16:04 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/189a00c1410fe13ec8b73af478d5a54b.pdf
16:04 < kanzure> "Parachute use to prevent death and major
16:04 < kanzure> trauma related to gravitational challenge:
16:04 < kanzure> systematic review of randomised
16:04 < kanzure> controlled trials"
16:05 < kanzure> at first i thought it was a joke but people have been known to survive from free fall without parachutes
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16:05 < bertmy> paperbot http://dx.doi.org/10.1007/BF02835077
16:05 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/a9d2d2e597f7421d7db5174f71d92e.txt
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17:10 < jrayhawk_> http://www.lucidscience.com/gal-rock%20disaggregator-1.aspx
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17:46 < panax> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/fda-warns-google-backed-23andme-161317200.html
17:47 < panax> The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has warned 23andMe, a company backed by Google Inc, to halt sales of its genetic tests because they have not received regulatory clearance.
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17:53 < kanzure> how large is 23andme these days? i wonder if they have scaled back.
17:54 < kanzure> http://www.crunchbase.com/company/23andme
17:54 < kanzure> about $150M in funding
17:54 < kanzure> oh, $160M
17:54 < ParahSailin> its google wife
17:54 < kanzure> i can't imagine they have too many employees though, since the basic testing is probably outsourced
17:54 < ParahSailin> so $infinity
17:54 < kanzure> and then they have their bioinformatics people, and their web ui/backend programmers
17:55 < kanzure> linkedin says 50-200 employees
17:56 < kanzure> "143 employees on linkedin"
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18:04 < panax> googles ex wife
18:06 < ParahSailin> $inf/2
18:07 < kanzure> normally i would say divorce would cause more damage than 0.5 but in this case maybe he feels bad or something
18:07 < kanzure> a make-up acquisition
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18:14 < ParahSailin> no divorced yet
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18:38 < abetusk> does the FDA smell money or are they being pressured by competitor?  Or something else?
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23:44 < kanzure> if anyone wants some namecoins, generate an address and save the key, then tell me where to send to: http://namecoinia.org/
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--- Log closed Tue Nov 26 00:00:36 2013