--- Log opened Sun Dec 22 00:00:00 2013
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00:21 < justanotheruser1> Is there any way I can get new research papers emailed to me based on keyword
00:21 < justanotheruser1> (especially yet to be peer reviewed if that's possible)
00:28 < kanzure> google alerts
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00:39 < joshcryer> http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/20/anti-ageing-human-trials
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00:49 < kanzure> no pdf link, probably scam
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01:18 < Viper168> I was reading about NAD elsewhere
01:18 < Viper168> it really does seem to have some solid reasoning behind it
01:19 < Viper168> enough that I've decided to try and pick some up
01:19 < Viper168> might as well
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05:36 < FourFire> Hello
05:36 < FourFire> It's been a while
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05:51 < FourFire> so... future?
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09:31 < flouric> Hello
09:32 < flouric> What is the opinion here of wetware grinders?
09:32 < flouric> Are some of the people here grinders?
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10:11 < kanzure> flouric: if you mean "have people done things" then the answer is yes
10:12 < kanzure> flouric: if you mean "have people done things and called themselves grinders because of it", then the answer is no
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10:13 < flouric> Oh I don't care about the name. I care about the results
10:13 < flouric> So, what's been done?
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10:14 < flouric> And as my original question: what is the channel's general stance on it?
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10:16 < ParahSailin> grinder like a tissue homogenizer?
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10:17 < flouric> I mean people who are modifying their body ways other than background
10:18 < flouric> In ways*
10:18 < flouric> S/background/cosmetic
10:19 < flouric> Dam phone autocorrect.
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10:24 < kanzure> flouric: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/declaration
10:28 < ParahSailin> putting magnets under skin lets you smell dark matter
10:30  * chris_99 orders 10
10:34 < kanzure> this is pretty hilarious, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=380683.0
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10:35 < kanzure> "The difficulty is already at 10 so I basically missed out on mining it already I'll probably launch another coin tomorrow"
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10:35 < chris_99> heh
10:42 < flouric> I disagree with the proactionary principle
10:43 < kanzure> and i don't think finger magnets are interesting
10:43 < flouric> All technology causes harm in specific cases but the ratio of harm to good is important
10:44 < ParahSailin> who said anything about fingers
10:45 < kanzure> he implied it, he's here to talk about "grinding"
10:45 < ParahSailin> you have to put the magnets under your eyelids to see gamma rays
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11:30 < juri_> i'm actually part of a biohacking group. our not-leader has a magnet in his finger.
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12:24 < justanotheruser> juri_: What is your first language?
12:25 < uberj> juri_: what if he needs to get an MRI?
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12:25 < kanzure> justanotheruser: you know, i asked that of juri_ too and i don't remember the answer
12:27 < justanotheruser> kanzure: Yeah, his English isn't too bad. I just thought it was weird that he said "actually" when no one was talking to him.
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12:28 < kanzure> sure.
12:29 < entelechios> in actuality
12:29 < uberj> actually, I want to modify my question and extend it to the entire channel: when we start having computer implants in your body, how will we deal with MRI technologies that rely on exposing our bodies to large magnetic fields
12:29 < uberj> *in our
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12:39 < entelechios> you deal with it by getting in a car crash, not having the doctors know anything about your implants
12:39 < entelechios> and then having them sucked out of your fingers
12:39 < entelechios> or straight into your bone or whatever
12:39 < entelechios> yea that doesnt sound like a lot of fun
12:40 < entelechios> the body artists as they're called can't use anesthesia when implanting these things either apparently
12:40 < juri_> my first language was german, oddly enough. i come from a quite undereducated part of the united states, so my english suffers.
12:41 < juri_> i'm the result of an education in the state that repeatedly places 48th, 49th, or 50th in quality of education.... plus, i 'cheated' and used getting published as a poet to get out of all of my high school english requirements.
12:41 < entelechios> i did absolutely no homework all of my last year in english and still passed
12:41 < entelechios> i think the teacher thought i was also jewish or something
12:42 < entelechios> well actually no she made me read 'the catcher in the rye' and do a book report on it to sum up my entire grade
12:42 < entelechios> hahaha
12:42 < entelechios> i remember i wrote a scathing review of it too
12:42 < juri_> she had you pegged. ;)
12:42 < entelechios> holden caulfield? was that his name? that character annoyed me
12:43 < justanotheruser> juri_: what is the biggest german IRC channel you go to
12:43 < juri_> justanotheruser: probably #gnu, at this point.
12:44 < juri_> er. ;)
12:44 < juri_> sorry.
12:44  * juri_ read 'general' instead of 'german'.
12:44 < juri_> i don't. the closest i get to my mother tongue is watching all of the CCC events.
12:44 < juri_> and listening to anonops news.
12:45 < justanotheruser> ok
12:46 < juri_> actually, that's wrong. the irc channel for the Fully Automatic Installer is bilingual.
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13:45 < kanzure> lavabit court orders and other material, http://cryptome.org/2013/12/lavabit-027.pdf
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13:56 < chris_99> has you been following the Telegram project?
13:56 < chris_99> *have
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14:33 < kanzure> no, and all the mitm vulnerabilities make me think i shouldn't bother
14:34 < chris_99> heh
14:35 < chris_99> that's what i meant, more the debacle relating to it
14:37 < entelechios> http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/12/fbi-copyrighted-interrogation-manual-unredacted-secrets
14:38 < entelechios> one day incompetence will save the world
14:38 < entelechios> some jackass will royally screw up on the nuclear bomb launch or something
14:39 < entelechios> and get tried for trying to end the world
14:40 < _Sol_> I thought the US airforce already accidentally shipped nuclear warhead parts out of the US to taiwan by military transport by mistake one time I read in some old article in the past 10 yrs. I mean it was I guess on a base, but they sent it to asia by accident I think.
14:41 < _Sol_> http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/03/25/us-usa-nuclear-taiwan-idUSN2538598920080325  okay its 4 yr old news
14:43 < _Sol_> first its fuses, next its missing cores of plutonium *shrug*.... maybe
14:43 < _Sol_> I guess that stuff is more secure
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15:47 < FourFire> " when we start having computer implants in your body, how will we deal with MRI technologies that rely on exposing our bodies to large magnetic fields" well that's a good question
15:47 < FourFire> I've seen some articles about a "dna computer"
15:48 < FourFire> so in that case we could have biological, nonmagnetic computing devices
15:48 < FourFire> it implants more naturally too
15:49 < FourFire> juri_, you got published as a poet?
15:49 < FourFire> can you spin me a poem about this channel perchance?
15:51 < FourFire> there's also the first carbon nanotube computer
15:51 < FourFire> now I'm not that great in material science, but I think carbon structures are nonmagnetic
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16:01 < juri_> fourfire: aye. i got published in 95, with 6 multi-page poems about hacking (the stuff we do, not breaking into #*%@$ networks to do mischief), and suicidal artificial inteligences.
16:01 < juri_> damn. that became 20 years ago QUICK.
16:01 < FourFire> suicidal AI ... poems
16:02 < FourFire> yeah, damn
16:02 < FourFire> so you were publish, a few years after I was born
16:03 < FourFire> hehe, you know people only a couple of years younger than me have no idea what an audio cassette is, and how you use pencils with them...
16:12 < juri_> technology changes fast.
16:12 < juri_> i've got a few milkcrates of audio casettes i need to record, before they die.
16:12 < juri_> recordings of live shows from before when *I* was born.
16:14 < JayDugger> I had a box of stuff labeled "Scan When Cheap" that I carried across nine years of moves until scanning finally got cheap.
16:14 < juri_> my last move created the "scanned images" directory.
16:15 < juri_> i've probably got more information about how the money order system works than the IRS does.
16:15 < juri_> (seriously.)
16:16 < gradstudentbot> I don't remember the paper, but someone definitely did that.
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16:24 < kanzure> well played, gradstudentbot
16:24 < gradstudentbot> If I was your endoplasmic reticulum, would you want me smooth or would you want me rough?
16:29 < FourFire> haha
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16:29 < FourFire> smooth:
16:29 < FourFire> I wouldn't want you to have hidden surface area
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17:07 < chris_99> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0260877404000366
17:08 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/43a6f3cf67537d439b240f5b4941d52d.txt
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17:18 < nsh> juri_, may i read your hacking poems?
17:19 < kanzure> "rotting in my cell, i hope nobody tells /end"
17:20 < kanzure> my alleged cell.
17:20  * nsh smiles
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17:21 < eudoxia> "something something about being a prisoner and my cell is a biological cell"
17:21 < eudoxia> it's a play on words, just like shakespeare
17:23 < FourFire> eudoxia, you do know the origin of the word cell in biology right?
17:24 < eudoxia> y-yes of course i do
17:24 < FourFire> , do tell ;P
17:24 < eudoxia> hooke named them after the small rooms monks lived in
17:26 < FourFire> yup, so prison cell and cell (biology) have the same origin
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17:33 < nsh> 4138 tabs
17:37 < kanzure> which browser?
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17:40 < juri_> nsh: i actually need to re-acquire a copy myself. ii only have one of them memorized.
17:41 < nsh> kanzure, that's my onetab... record of tab bankruptcy over the last 39 days  (average 106.1 tabs i give up on per day)
17:41 < nsh> juri_, ah, shame
17:41 < kanzure> i don't understand why you would give up on a tab
17:41 < kanzure> it sounds stupid
17:42 < eudoxia> how do people even manage
17:42 < eudoxia> the most i've had is like 15 and i have this urge to delete tabs ASAP
17:42 < kanzure> i've done ~300-400
17:43 < kanzure> over time my browsing-related working memory has accomodated this
17:43 < kanzure> what gets really weird is back/forward history inside each tab..
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17:48 < nsh> kanzure, i think i just need to adopt better browsing habits
17:49 < kanzure> how about not assigning debt to your browsing habits
17:49 < kanzure> applying principles of economics to information seems like a losing game
17:49 < nsh> well, it was a pretty loose metaphor for starting to read more things than i can possibly finish reading
17:50 < kanzure> i find the amount of actually digestable, good, technically-sound content to be fairly minimal in general
17:50 < kanzure> so most things are really easy to read and be done with in 2-3 seconds
17:51 < kanzure> that's including time for "internalizing"
17:51 < kanzure> *within
17:51  * nsh nods
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17:54 < FourFire> I've crashed my computer with ~300
17:54 < FourFire> but then it only had 2GB of ram at the time
17:55 < nsh> if the browser could have some semi-clever metric for how "far away from attention" a given tab is, then it could keep them in various levels of loaded/renderedness
17:56 < nsh> often in linux i'd just kill all the render processes for chromium then reload when i switch tab, as the latency to reload/render is quite low compared to the overhead of keeping them all in ram
17:56 < nsh> but i'd be nice to have gradations of this
17:56 < nsh> *it'd
17:59 < kanzure> tab content should be cached and loaded from disk. not just a saved url (this is what toomanytabs does).
18:00 < nsh> right
18:00 < nsh> ideally, all information from urls should be programmatically intergrated into your personal data model
18:01 < nsh> which is something like a individualised wikipedia with semantic interconnections and bells and whistles and stuff
18:01 < nsh> and it makes cheese toasties
18:01 < gradstudentbot> Argh, what do you mean you don't accept LaTeX submissions??
18:21 < JayDugger> At least it has the grilled sandwich maker attachment.
18:22 < JayDugger> Tabs Outliner helps me more than others I've tried, but I imagine better browsing habits would help even more.
18:34 < kanzure> let's get rid of tabs and just append all html content to the same screen
18:34 < kanzure> worse is better, right? guys?
18:37 < JayDugger> I lack sufficient Unix nature to appreciate such direct application of the maxim.
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18:45 < kanzure> http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=2 "The Underhanded C Contest is an annual contest to write innocent-looking C code implementing malicious behavior. In this contest you must write C code that is as readable, clear, innocent and straightforward as possible, and yet it must fail to perform at its apparent function. To be more specific, it should do something subtly evil."
18:46 < kanzure> "Your submission is always worth more if the bad behavior, once discovered, is plausibly deniable as a newbie coding mistake."
18:46 < kanzure> "Your submission is worth more if the underhanded code does not look suspicious under syntax coloring."
18:47 < juri_> the nsa already won.
18:48 < juri_> in fact, i'd be silly not to think at least one of the devices i use has been compromised.
18:48 < nsh> (it's more likely to be one of your 'friends')
18:48 < kanzure> you are really hard to talk with
18:48 < gradstudentbot> I'm only doing this to get tenure.
18:48 < kanzure> because all of your conversations come from out of fucking nowhere
18:49 < kanzure> you don't have to be a member of the nsa to write obfuscated or bugged code
18:49 < kanzure> and if you are trying to prove otherwise, i am eagerly awaiting your bullshit..
18:49 < juri_> no, but when i think 'submit subtly broken code that does something subtly evil', i think the NSA.
18:50 < juri_> i think we just word associate differently.
18:50 < kanzure> if everyone dumped everything that something reminded them of, there would be too much noise in here
18:51 < kanzure> you could even argue "everything is related to everything else", but it's not a very interesting or useful observation
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18:52 < juri_> hold on. i'm searching for a link. ;P
18:53 < juri_> sorry, i'm not you, s i dont have a dtabae of everywhere i go.
18:54 < juri_> from what i remember, at one point there was a submission similar to what you are talking about to the linux kernel, during some sort of a break in...
18:54 < kanzure> i think it's more reasonable to assume that people outside of the nsa are capable of writing bugged code
18:55 < kanzure> the nsa does not have a monopoly on this ability
18:55 < kanzure> wait, i mean, the total majority of this ability
18:55 < kanzure> no, i mean the total amount
18:56 < juri_> no, but from what i can tell, they're paid to get into wherever, and are known to be subverting everything they can get into. specifically, encryption algorithms.
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18:56 < kanzure> and.. what does that have to do with the messages i originally sent?
18:56 < juri_> sorry, i can't find what i was looking for.
18:57 < kanzure> are you trying to argue that coding competitions are uninteresting because of the existence of the nsa?
18:57 < kanzure> programming competitions
18:57 < juri_> they may not have the total monopoly, but they have employees whos jobs it is to do exactly that, for encryption algorithms. who knows what else.
18:58 < kanzure> okay... so are you trying to generate a list of all organizations that have employees doing similar tasks?
18:58 < kanzure> i just don't understand wtf you are talking about
18:58 < juri_> mm. no, i was trying to be snarky. i haven't heard of other organizations that have been caught doing it.
19:00 < juri_> and since i haven't heard of other organizations doing it, i was trying to imply that said programming competition would either be a joke (to the NSA guys), or a recruiting tool for them.
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21:13 < kanzure> rayston: hi
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