--- Log opened Thu Mar 27 00:00:44 2014
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02:18 < bkero> Anybody here used freecad before?
02:18 < bkero> I'm trying to load the OSVehicle Tabby STP file into it and it' just hanging my system. How big can it be?
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04:57 < eudoxia> i tried coconut water once and it was terrible
04:57 < eudoxia> i didn't know it was a single cell though that's pretty cool
05:23 < WWIII> it can be used as a replacement for saline IV
05:23 < WWIII> in an emergency
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06:17 < chris_99> http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22129623.000-gunshot-victims-to-be-suspended-between-life-and-death.html#.UzQjFmdb-XL
06:25 < eudoxia> i assume the comments on HN are along the lines of:
06:25 < eudoxia> "cryonics confirmed for not sci-fi!"
06:26 < eudoxia> "not its not >muh strawberries >muh hamburgerization"
06:26 < eudoxia> "*vitalist fallacies*"
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06:30 < chris_99> could you still determine someone wasn't braindead by measuring something from the neurons?
06:31 < eudoxia> you mean measure without actually touching the neurons?
06:32 < chris_99> not sure either by using some kind of probe or any other way
06:34 < eudoxia> well if it's all necrotic it's definitely dead
06:34 < eudoxia> otherwise i'm not sure how relevant brain death is in the context of cryonics
06:37 < chris_99> so roughly the state of the neurons is mainly down to ions within them?
06:37 < eudoxia> you're gonna have to ask an actual neuroscientist
06:38 < eudoxia> unless that was a rhetorical question
06:38 < chris_99> nope it wasnt
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07:44 < kanzure> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/70308014/kings-assembly-a-computer-mouse-full-of-awesome
07:45 < kanzure> hrm "30 keys for fingers of each hand" kinda limited
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08:19  * ThomasEgi is working on a regular keyboard with a layout containing 6 different layers on a window manager that does not require a mouse to operate at all.
08:19 < ThomasEgi> but sure, if you want to use mouse and keyboard together all the time.. why not.
08:20 < chris_99> ratpoison?
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08:21 < eudoxia> just about every tiling WM doesn't require a mouse at all
08:21 < eudoxia> i would guess awesome or xmonad since that's what everyone's using
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08:22 < ThomasEgi> eudoxia guessed right. awesomewm in my case
08:23 < ThomasEgi> and for the very few cases you need a mouse to navigate horribly writen websites... one can even fall back to the refined grid approaches.
08:24 < ThomasEgi> which works very well if you have a numblock mapped on one layer of your keyboard layout
08:24 < ThomasEgi> so the only occasion where you really want to have a mouse is for playing games. and during that, there usualy is very little need to swap between mouse and keyboard.
08:24 < eudoxia> i should try vimperator or one of those hardcore things
08:25 < ThomasEgi> you better be ready to sacrifice some firstborns then :D
08:28 < eudoxia> ThomasEgi: what did you mean with 'different layers' on the keyboard?
08:29 < ThomasEgi> most keyboard layouts use just 2 , in rare cases 3 layers
08:29 < ThomasEgi> like layer 1 is for small letters. layer 2 usualy for captial letters
08:30 < ThomasEgi> layer 3 is sometimes used for stuff luke ³ ² and @
08:30 < eudoxia> oh so a layer is like alt/shift/altgr characters
08:30 < ThomasEgi> yep. the modifier keys:)
08:30 < ThomasEgi> and. my layout has a total of 6 layers
08:30 < cluckj> paperbot, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23685372%20
08:30 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.3920%2FBM2012.0063
08:31 < ThomasEgi> 2 for regular writing, one with all the programming related keys such as bracktes and punktiation and arithmetic operators
08:31 < cluckj> srsly one page, paperbot?
08:31 < eudoxia> and a bunch of obscure unicode math stuff right?
08:31 < ThomasEgi> the 4th layer is for navigation, it includes arrow keys, backspace, delete, pos1 , end as well as a numblock (so yo udon't need a separate numblock on your keyboard)
08:32 < ThomasEgi> yeah. the obscure math stuff is on layer 5
08:32 < ThomasEgi> ℕℝ∂∫ and all that stuff
08:33 < ThomasEgi> layer 6 is greek letters such as μ ω Ω small and capital
08:33 < ThomasEgi> so .. not sure if that counts as 7 layers in total
08:34 < ThomasEgi> usualy 6 layers. cause noone counts small and cap letters as separate layers
08:36 < ThomasEgi> it's optimized for german languge. but changing the first 2 layers should be no problem. http://neo-layout.org/grafik/druckvorlage/neo-druckvorlage.png that's what it looks like if you slam all symbols on the actual key
08:37 < eudoxia> sweet
08:37 < eudoxia> what are the os logos doing there though
08:37 < ThomasEgi> the only key that has no modifier is the enter key. so you can feel right at home for at least one key.
08:37 < ThomasEgi> it's a print stencil
08:38 < ThomasEgi> the bottom most row is just to fit everyones taste in os logo keys
08:39 < kanzure> i should call my typing technique "roshi turtle typing"
08:39 < ThomasEgi> iirc there are people using qwert dvorak and colemak dervates of that.
08:39 < kanzure> http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120420131027/dragonball/images/f/fa/Findthatstone1.jpg
08:40 < ThomasEgi> kanzure, how does it work?
08:43 < kanzure> well it's approximately this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ-l_oGDbMs&t=4m20s
08:50 < ThomasEgi> so.. you type by .. running over your keyboard in 8 seconds?
08:50 < ThomasEgi> i don't get it.
08:51 < eudoxia> i don't get it either, maybe it's further in the video
08:51 < ThomasEgi> i watched it to the end
08:51 < kanzure> i was joking. sorry about that. if you're actually interested in my technique it involves ranting loudly on the internet for decades.
08:51 < ThomasEgi> lound ranting makes you type. so you use voice input?
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08:52 < kanzure> it is possible to type loud sentences
08:52 < kanzure> LIKE ALLCAPS
08:52 < ThomasEgi> for some reason.. i feel urged to write avoice input library that sucks like hell but has an extremly high accuracy detecting curse words :D
08:52 < kanzure> i used to be much faster at chat
08:52 < eudoxia> kanzure: tangential question, what was that program where you type by moving a pointer into letters as they appear from  the right side?
08:52 < kanzure> dasher
08:52 < eudoxia> thanks
08:53 < eudoxia> i recall you said you tried it a few times but never got around to using it for real
08:53 < eudoxia> has that changed?
08:54 < kanzure> i think i was using it for 30 minutes once to type sentences but it was just not entertaining enough or useful enough to warrant further use
08:54 < kanzure> i think the next typing software thing that i try is going to be plover
08:54 < kanzure> i've already attempted plover at least a few times but i keep fucking up my keyboard purchases
08:54 < kanzure> i think there's a total of two or three keyboards that it is compatible with :(
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08:55 < eudoxia> it doesn't work on whatever?
08:55 < eudoxia> what a shame
08:55 < kanzure> n-key rollover
08:55 < kanzure> not all keyboards are capable of registering any-given-set-of 10 keypresses simultaneously
08:58 < JayDugger> Ah.
08:58 < JayDugger> Plover would make an interesting test if Dallas Makerspace has a keyboard show-and-tell.
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09:02 < ThomasEgi> to be fair.. the usb standard keyboard device can only register 6 keypresses my design (excluding modifier keys)
09:03 < kanzure> ThomasEgi: if i was to bestow a budget would you be interested in doing crazy keyboard things
09:03 < ThomasEgi> so if you want true nkoy rollover you need to no only have a keyboard with the required hardware to detect those presses. but you also need to use the ps/2 connector... or a custom keyboard usb driver
09:03 < kanzure> i'd be willing to write a custom keyboard usb driver
09:03 < ThomasEgi> i'm not much into crazy keyboard hardware. but i can point you to people who may
09:03 < kanzure> i would like to meet those people yah
09:03 < kanzure> *yeah
09:04 < ThomasEgi> in #neo they may be able to point you towards the right people/forums/boards
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09:09 < archels> ThomasEgi: I'm a bit skeptical about a plethora of modifier keys. At one time I used an app that would let me access most or any unicode character based on a simple sequence after hitting a single 'special' access key. E.g. [Alt]+1 -> 'g' for Greek, 'a' for alpha
09:09 < archels> it was very quick and intuitive and didn't require me to learn seven keyboard layouts
09:09 < ThomasEgi> if that's all you need. that's good. i tossed qwert overboard cause i hated it and wanted to learn something new anyway.
09:10 < ThomasEgi> from my experience, the navigation and programming layers are really wonderful
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09:11 < ThomasEgi> i rarely use the math and greek symbols myself. but being able to reach all the brackets and cursor movement without having to move my hand at all was well worth the few weeks of learning process
09:14 < archels> admittedly I'm neither a vi nor an emacs nerd
09:14 < archels> I find both to be an affront to user interface design
09:14 < kanzure> does that mean you also don't use emacs or vi?
09:14 < archels> notepad++
09:14 < ThomasEgi> i'm mostly using geany
09:15 < eudoxia> i use emacs and a WM with emacs-like keybindings
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10:31 < archels> paperbot: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/09528130600552888
10:31 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/16cf7b9a611367fcd5fb002e0ec1d8ef.pdf
10:32 < archels> <3
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11:01 < ParahSailin> dude using ''.join([dirname, basename]) because he doesnt want to add extra dependency on os.path
11:02 < ParahSailin> first line of file is import os
11:02 < kanzure> is he aware that most of the os module is just pass-through to standard system calls
11:03 < kanzure> what happened to writing everything in haskell
11:03 < eudoxia> why would you be worried about dependency on the stdlib
11:03 < ParahSailin> kanzure: having to deal with other people's shit
11:03 < kanzure> ParahSailin: are you the only one writing haskell there?
11:04 < ParahSailin> yeah
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11:06 < ParahSailin> god, and theres a "/".join in here too
11:08 < ParahSailin> seriously? '/'.join(list[0:len(list)-1]) + '/'
11:10 < ParahSailin> oh no wait, it gets better, the previous line is ` list = (self.params['Path_to_genome_file']).split('/') `
11:10 < ParahSailin> os.path.basename in two lines
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11:12 < kanzure> self.params is bad because you could just call self.path
11:13 < kanzure> self.params is definitely smelly
11:13 < kanzure> also in python it is considered poor form to name your variables based on reserved keywords like "list"
11:14 < kanzure> i found a peculiar fellow who decided to use classes that extended from collections.namedtuple or something, just as a basic way to name the variables you expect to keep track of
11:14 < ParahSailin> nah its not a reserved keyword, and shadowing builtin values is totally awesome
11:14 < kanzure> oops yeah there's like a list and reserved keyword is the worst, and the other end is "yep totally free", and in between it's builtin and.. uh..
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11:20 < ParahSailin> ok no i think i have something better: def check_dir_path(self,path) {length = len(path); if path[length-int(1)] != '/' {path = ''.join([path,'/'])}; return path}
11:22 < kanzure> have you considered quitting
11:24 < eudoxia> what's that curly brace thing
11:25 < ParahSailin> python doesnt really support that but pretend like its crs and proper indentation
11:26 < eudoxia> oh i thought it was a literal code fragmet
11:26 < eudoxia> fragment*, at one point i wondered if it was scala
11:28 < kanzure> yes it is hard to communicate python indentation in a single line
11:28 < ParahSailin> either post a url to a gist, make inline pseudopython, or paste literal multiline python, i did 2
11:28 < kanzure> the solution is to never speak of python and don't admit it
11:29 < kanzure> it's too bad that javascript sucks so much
11:29 < kanzure> and that python can't get its own npm because module importing is fucked up
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11:32 < ParahSailin> lines = infd.readlines(); line_length = len(lines); j=int(0); while j < line_length {...}
11:33 < kanzure> methinks it would be easier for you to just write your own
11:34 < ParahSailin> most of the time i just hear the other guys typing and assume theyre doing something useful
11:35 < eudoxia> i go out of my way to make my python as un-C++-y as possibly but when i see things like that i feel better about myself
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13:44 < kanzure> backstalking is a lot like backpropagation except less difficult in terms of programming
13:45 < chris_99> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1053811914001633
13:45 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/85ed3d8588648333ffb5eb2e1ce5bdb0.txt
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14:23 < jrayhawk> paperbot: http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3709958
14:23 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/d5db411ea289d75b3f29985277196911.txt
14:23 < jrayhawk> paperbot: http://diyhpl.us/stable/pdfplus/3709958.pdf?acceptTC=true&acceptTC=true
14:23 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/a66d25fdd9b673496ab22f26e9179092.txt
14:24 < jrayhawk> fffffff
14:24 < jrayhawk> right, right
14:24 < jrayhawk> paperbot: http://www.jstor.org/stable/pdfplus/3709958.pdf?acceptTC=true&acceptTC=true
14:25 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/79921c5e0aeb4b09072ad0911ff66bd.txt
14:30 < kanzure> "common intractable human problems" apparently not so intractable huh
14:33 < kanzure> paperbot: http://socrel.oxfordjournals.org/content/40/4/283.abstract
14:33 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.2307%2F3709958
14:33 < kanzure> jrayhawk: there you go
14:36 < pyotr> I guess you guys 'talk' in the form of papers
14:39 < kanzure> well, show me a better paper
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14:50 < jrayhawk> donkey shins
14:50 < jrayhawk> i am bad at paperbot
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16:15 < kanzure> can anyone find me a copy of "The Rapid Emergence of Bio-Electronic Novelty, Neuronal Architectures, and Organismal Performance"
16:15 < kanzure> "Data from the fossil record and comparative morphology indicate that organisms with complex brains and sophisticated sensory systems evolved very rapidly in the early Paleozoic in a time interval perhaps shorter than 5 million years. Owing to such severe time constraints, it is inevitable that the neuronal architecture for complex sensory and motor functions must have been forged via a modular mode of reorganization rather than by the ...
16:15 < kanzure> ... invention of a large number of novel elementars (new proteins, new gene control regions, or new cell types). As the molecular mechanisms involved in embryogenesis and brain development become increasingly better known, and as the various genome projects furnish sufficient data of requisite quality, testable hypotheses about the features that distinguished Cambrian from Precambrian genomes are becoming easier to formulate. For Drosophila ...
16:16 < kanzure> ... melanogaster it is already clear that major neuronal gene expression patterns during development are few in number and restricted in extent. These findings have significant implications for the evolution of behavioral outputs of organisms at different levels of complexity and make it likely that neuronal architectures have been explored only partially since the Cambrian. In this chapter we evaluate the data bearing upon abrupt versus ...
16:16 < kanzure> ... smooth evolutionary transitions in terms of (a) the modular modes of biological construction at the protein and neuronal circuit levels, (b) the rates and "costs" of complex brain evolution, and (c) the constraints of' interacting gene and protein pathways on nervous system evolution."
16:31 < ParahSailin> 1995 is not likely to be a very current book
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17:04 < nmz787_i> it looks like I might be able to get a hardcopy on loan http://portlandstate.worldcat.org/title/flexibility-and-constraint-in-behavioral-systems-dahlem-workshop-revised-papers/oclc/846581098&referer=brief_results
17:04 < nmz787_i> I can't find a reference to it on wiley.com though
17:04 < nmz787_i> so I can't find even a paywall link
17:05 < kanzure> don't bother with the loan
17:06 < ParahSailin> nmz787_i: go on your school's iliad and they will send you interlibrary scan
17:07 < FourFire> so, http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/179289 must be old news by now
17:08 < FourFire> interesting though, I haven't been following up on bone implant advancements
17:08 < FourFire> Teeth is one of the things I keep an eye out for, though.
17:13 < ParahSailin> regretting the cyanide tooth implant and want the original one back?
17:25 < FourFire> ParahSailin, nope, just thinking long term
17:26 < FourFire> there's a list of human body parts which need to be replaced in order to reach indefinite lifespan
17:27 < FourFire> (I'm a proponent of biological indefinite lifespan, haven't worked through the "but a computer simulation of my neurones firing isn't me" issue)
17:27 < FourFire> from my point of view the P Zombie issue is unfalsifiable
17:28 < chris_99> say you replaced neurons one-by-one
17:29 < chris_99> with digital equivalents
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17:29 < ParahSailin> the soul disappears with the last one
17:29 < chris_99> heh
17:30 < ParahSailin> it would have to be symmetric to the process of ensoulment
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17:41 < chris_99> if you upload a mind, would it really be the same 'you', or just a copy
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17:47 < ParahSailin> lemme ask my identical twin
17:48 < chris_99> heh
17:55 < FourFire> yeah, thing is I don't subscribe to souls either
17:56 < FourFire> it's a dillemma which exists probably due to my own ignorance
17:57 < FourFire> If I *knew* all the details around it then it would be resolvable, but "you can't sit in you living room with your eyes closed and draw an accurate streetmap of your city"
18:00 < kanzure> if philosophy is allowed then i'm linkdumping, fuck you guys
18:00 < kanzure> :fart: http://znanie.podelise.ru/tw_files2/urls_923/2/d-1157/7z-docs/1.pdf
18:00 < kanzure> pooooop http://www.derekmelser.org/essays/essayprogress.html
18:01 < kanzure> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Paper/00_01/agency.htm
18:02 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/philosophy/Causation%20is%20the%20transfer%20of%20information%20-%20John%20Collier.pdf
18:06 < streety> has anyone tried downloading all the scientific articles from libgen?
18:07 < kanzure> they have torrents
18:08 < streety> for just the scientific articles?
18:08 < streety> I've found the db dump
18:09 < chris_99> that book on thinking sounds pretty cool kanzure :)
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18:35 < dingo> 01:09 < chris_99> that book on thinking sounds pretty cool kanzure :)
18:35 < dingo> i agree
18:35 < dingo> its interesting to think about thinking, hehe
18:35 < chris_99> heh
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19:31 < kanzure> .title http://www.balkans.com/open-news.php?uniquenumber=190844
19:31 < yoleaux> Slovenia and Cyprus to join EU's Human Brain Project
19:33 < kanzure> someone apparently skipped my chroot instructions for nanoengineer:
19:33 < kanzure> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/22571848/debugging-the-error-gcc-error-x86-64-linux-gnu-gcc-no-such-file-or-directory/22696574#22696574
19:33 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/issues/6
19:33 < kanzure> "I'm a CMake kind of guy myself" i suspect russian
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--- Log closed Fri Mar 28 00:00:44 2014