--- Log opened Fri Mar 28 00:00:44 2014 --- Log closed Fri Mar 28 00:56:56 2014 --- Log opened Fri Mar 28 00:57:15 2014 00:57 -!- gnusha [~gnusha@131.252.130.248] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:57 -!- Topic for ##hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | sponsored by george church and the NRA | http://gnusha.org/logs http://diyhpl.us/wiki http://groups.google.com/group/diybio | banned by the Federal Death Administration | official paperbot fan club 00:57 -!- Topic set by kanzure [~kanzure@131.252.130.248] [Sat Mar 23 20:40:45 2013] 00:57 [Users ##hplusroadmap] 00:57 [ _sol_ ] [ d3vz3r0 ] [ jrayhawk ] [ saurik ] 00:57 [ Adifex|zzz] [ dbolser ] [ juri_ ] [ sivoais ] 00:57 [ archels ] [ devrandom ] [ juul ] [ smeaaagle ] 00:57 [ audy ] [ dingo ] [ kuldeepdhaka] [ strages_ ] 00:57 [ augur ] [ drewbot ] [ nuba ] [ strangewarp] 00:57 [ balrog ] [ ElixirVitae ] [ oblique ] [ streety ] 00:57 [ Baube ] [ entelechios ] [ ParahSailin ] [ superkuh ] 00:57 [ bkero ] [ gnusha ] [ pasky ] [ Twey ] 00:57 [ blueskin ] [ HashNuke ] [ phryk ] [ uberj ] 00:57 [ brownies ] [ heathjs ] [ pyotr ] [ Urchin ] 00:57 [ Burn_ ] [ hehelleshin ] [ Qfwfq ] [ Viper168 ] 00:57 [ catern ] [ HEx1 ] [ realzies ] [ Vutral ] 00:57 [ cluckj ] [ INSANITYWOLF] [ rigel ] [ ybit ] 00:57 [ cpopell ] [ ivan` ] [ ruphos ] [ yoleaux ] 00:57 [ curt1s ] [ JayDugger ] [ ruthie ] [ Zhwazi ] 00:57 -!- Irssi: ##hplusroadmap: Total of 60 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 60 normal] 00:57 -!- Channel ##hplusroadmap created Thu Feb 25 23:40:30 2010 00:57 -!- Irssi: Join to ##hplusroadmap was synced in 7 secs 00:57 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:03 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:38 -!- Baube [~Baube@65.95.14.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:42 -!- Baube [~Baube@65.95.14.15] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:48 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:51 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:58 -!- Viper168_ is now known as Viper168 02:14 -!- pyotr [~hrouhan@24.60.79.55] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 02:45 -!- Baube [~Baube@65.95.14.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:50 -!- Baube [~Baube@65.95.14.15] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:54 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:56 -!- kyknos_ [~kyknos@89.233.130.143] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:08 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:27 -!- Baube [~Baube@65.95.14.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:30 -!- Baube [~Baube@65.95.14.15] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:04 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Quit: Life is too short] 04:06 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:09 -!- rkos [58719ad1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.113.154.209] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:09 < rkos> uuh hi, how does paperbot work? 04:12 < rkos> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/dta.1620/abstract 04:13 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:14 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:32 -!- Baube [~Baube@65.95.14.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:37 -!- Baube [~Baube@65.95.14.15] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:45 < chris_99> paperbot doesn't seem to be here atm 05:00 < rkos> kay kay 05:11 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@95.5.87.200] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:11 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@95.5.87.200] has quit [Changing host] 05:11 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:22 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:26 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:38 -!- voodster [~je@95.129.166.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:39 -!- voodster [~je@95.129.166.182] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 05:39 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:41 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-181-60.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:55 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:55 -!- kyknos_ [~kyknos@89.233.130.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:04 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:11 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:17 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:26 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:31 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:16 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@221-88-15.connect.netcom.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:24 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:25 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:38 < dbolser> is there a counterparty channel? 07:39 < Baube> your local church ? (:p) 07:40 < dbolser> it it xpc? 07:40 < dbolser> can anyone send me some test coin? 07:41 < dbolser> xcp... I'm so dyslexic 07:44 < dbolser> can anyone send me xcp-test to n1nfwUdsb6qTMhEgTGzS9EUyz9nuuX7hHD ? <-- Address on testnet 07:45 < dbolser> I'm not yet running counterpartyd, but that doesn't matter right? 07:45 < dbolser> does anyone play double spend attacks on test net ;-) 07:53 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:54 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:18 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:34 -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@78.174.50.196] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:34 -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@78.174.50.196] has quit [Changing host] 08:34 -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:37 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:55 -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:08 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-181-60.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:10 -!- Baube [~Baube@65.95.14.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:11 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-181-60.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:15 -!- Baube [~Baube@65.95.14.15] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:38 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:56 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.139.76] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:14 -!- kanzure [~kanzure@131.252.130.248] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:15 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:23 -!- INSANITYWOLF [~tpi@c-107-4-148-59.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:25 -!- WORLDWARTHREE [~tpi@c-107-4-148-59.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:26 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-226-145-119.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:26 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-205-113-66.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:44 -!- HashNuke [uid12117@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pmcbtaubjmmnkvio] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 11:07 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.139.76] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:18 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@192.55.55.37] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:19 -!- Baube [~Baube@65.95.14.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:20 -!- Baube [~Baube@65.95.14.15] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:29 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-181-60.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:43 -!- rev_illo [~revilloth@f052150024.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:16 -!- ruthie [~ruthie@c-98-225-143-81.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:16 -!- ruthie [~ruthie@c-98-225-143-81.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:21 -!- ruthie [~ruthie@c-98-225-143-81.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:24 -!- Baube [~Baube@65.95.14.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:26 -!- Baube [~Baube@65.95.14.15] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:38 -!- entelechios [~elysium@181.194.151.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:16 -!- entelechios [~elysium@mail.2bett.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:16 -!- entelechios [~elysium@mail.2bett.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:21 < jrayhawk> dbolser: irc://irc.counterparty.co/#xcp 13:57 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:57 -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:58 -!- rev_illo [~revilloth@f052150024.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 14:10 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:19 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:42 < kanzure> i wonder if anyone is doing trachtenberg-style rsa mental arithmetic 14:50 -!- benkay [~user@216-161-94-151.ptld.qwest.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:51 < benkay> o/ kanzure 14:51 < kanzure> hello 15:01 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:13 < kanzure> someone reverse engineered tecan's protocol and is trying to sell software http://www.molboxllc.com/products.html 15:17 < dbolser> kanzure: how do I get xcp-test? 15:21 < kanzure> dbolser: you ask the xcp people i think, or you send testnet bitcoin to the testnet burn address 15:21 < kanzure> dbolser: honestly i think that's a boring way to go 15:22 < kanzure> dbolser: i just setup a small vm with bitcoin in regtest mode, then run counterparty connected to regtest bitcoin 15:22 < kanzure> dbolser: and modify the blocks for the burn period so that it can start at block 1 of regtest bitcoin 15:22 < kanzure> this way i can control the creation of blocks without mining 15:37 < kanzure> "plug and play vineyard sensor system" http://smartvineyards.net/ 15:39 < dbolser> kanzure: hehe... I'm too noob to do all that 15:39 < dbolser> I'm asking in xcp but so far no response 15:41 < dbolser> kanzure: unless you can set up a how-to? 15:41 < kanzure> i don't see you in #xcp on irc.counterparty.co 15:41 < dbolser> oh, sorry, I'm on freenode 15:41 * dbolser joins 15:41 < kanzure> go find bitcoin testnet in a box, get the docker container, and then blow away its blockchain and run it in regtest mode instead of testnet mode 15:42 < dbolser> kanzure: I don't argue that it sounds simple ;-) 15:42 -!- dbolser [~dbolser@nat8095.ebi.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 15:42 < kanzure> you.. quit? 15:43 -!- dbolser [~dbolser@nat8095.ebi.ac.uk] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:43 < dbolser> bah... /server vs. /connect 15:43 < dbolser> jrayhawk: ty 15:46 < kanzure> dbolser: https://index.docker.io/u/freewil/bitcoin-testnet-box/ 15:47 < dbolser> kanzure: ty 15:53 -!- jcluck [~cluckj@cpe-24-92-63-104.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:57 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@cpe-24-92-63-104.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:03 -!- snuffeluffegus [~snuffeluf@ps95204.dreamhost.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:03 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@cpe-24-92-63-104.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:06 -!- jcluck [~cluckj@cpe-24-92-63-104.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:08 -!- nsh [~nsh@host217-43-192-110.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:11 -!- benkay [~user@216-161-94-151.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:12 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@cpe-24-92-63-104.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:13 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@192.55.55.37] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:15 -!- Baube [~Baube@65.95.14.15] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16 -!- Baube [~Baube@65.95.14.15] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:22 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@221-88-15.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:42 -!- benkay [~user@216-161-94-151.ptld.qwest.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:44 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:51 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@cpe-24-92-63-104.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:01 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-67-176-51-230.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:05 -!- ruthie [~ruthie@c-98-225-143-81.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:21 -!- nsh_ [~nsh@host217-43-192-135.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:22 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:23 -!- nsh [~nsh@host217-43-192-110.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:23 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:28 -!- Baube [~Baube@65.95.14.15] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-67-176-51-230.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:05 -!- nsh_ [~nsh@host217-43-192-135.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:07 -!- nsh_ [~nsh@host217-43-192-110.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:16 -!- nsh_ [~nsh@host217-43-192-110.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:28 -!- nsh_ [~nsh@host86-141-90-70.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:28 -!- nsh_ [~nsh@host86-141-90-70.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:28 -!- nsh_ [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:28 -!- nsh_ is now known as nsh 18:29 < kanzure> ParahSailin: give me a good counter argument to "cloud biology" 18:30 < kanzure> ParahSailin: "well you can just take a sample with a swab and mail it into the API-controllable lab, so therefore you don't need any equipment ever" 18:33 < ParahSailin> fuck pipetting, i say good 18:33 < kanzure> so there will just be one massive labcorp? 18:34 < kanzure> why isn't there just one massive "printing" corp? e.g. a single lonely kinkos building that everyone mails to and receives mail from for all their printing needs. 18:36 < ParahSailin> printing seems a lot easier that generalized fluid handling 18:36 -!- rkos [58719ad1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.113.154.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:39 < kanzure> i guess any specialized equipment could be mailed in using 80/20 structures 18:39 < kanzure> some rack size like data centers 18:41 < ParahSailin> a 1U rack for biology equipment? now there its going a little into fantasy land 18:41 < kanzure> surely there's an argument for individual or separate labs 18:41 < kanzure> otherwise the entire industry would have consolidated ages ago 18:42 < ParahSailin> and give up free undergrads? 18:43 < ParahSailin> i think lab robot development is just pretty slow 18:43 < ParahSailin> and there arent any lab robots that will grind up cow ear tags 18:45 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45 < ParahSailin> i dont think there will be coloc, but i think a lot of people are ready to give up human pipette error 18:46 < kanzure> pipetting robots can be done locally though 18:46 < kanzure> i keep hearing the "just use mail order dna synthesis" argument 18:47 < kanzure> and transcriptic.com is obviously going in the biology lab services in the cloud maybe programmable direction 18:47 < ParahSailin> ah well if by cloud you mean one national robot center, probably not 18:48 < kanzure> right, and i wanted to figure out reasonable arguments for the "probably not" part 18:49 < ParahSailin> amazon's got at least a dozen data centers 18:49 < kanzure> well ok, that's because of workload and capacity planning reasons 18:49 < ParahSailin> geographical latency is not a factor? 18:50 < kanzure> load handling might count under geographical latency.. maybe. 18:51 -!- benkay [~user@216-161-94-151.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:51 < ParahSailin> if speed of light were not a factor, they'd have one data center in iceland where electricity is extremely cheap and cooling is free 18:52 < kanzure> also something about engineering the single points of failure out of the design 18:52 < kanzure> latency is a pretty bad reason 18:52 < kanzure> overnight shipping from another lab is a thing 18:53 < kanzure> and even in some universities they centralize all of their mouse work to the mouse facility 18:57 < ParahSailin> shipping samples can be pretty expensive 18:57 -!- Baube [~Baube@65.95.14.15] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:57 < kanzure> cheaper than buying equipment 18:57 < kanzure> or cheaper than fucking up your gels forever and ever 18:57 -!- benkay [~user@216-161-94-151.ptld.qwest.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:58 < kanzure> a lot of lab protocols require fine motor skills that aren't going to be replicated in hardware any time soon 18:58 < ParahSailin> i mean shipping it to one central facility vs shipping it to the local lab 18:58 < kanzure> and i would say that a lot of the high skilled stuff will always be created faster than robots will be programmed to do it 18:58 < kanzure> it would be nice to stop making up bullshit protocols that require special trained labor just to conduct the rituals 18:59 < ParahSailin> i dont think theres much economies of scale in having 1000 independently operating robots in kansas city vs having local branches with 50 robots each 19:00 < ParahSailin> its not like a blast furnace 19:03 -!- benkay [~user@216-161-94-151.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:03 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:10 < kanzure> but then why hasn't one giant megacorp happened yet? 1000 independently operating robots/gradstudents/whatevers 19:12 -!- ruthie [~ruthie@c-98-225-143-81.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:13 < ParahSailin> all this stuff happens in university labs 19:14 < kanzure> why are there microscopes in each lab instead of just one super imaging lab somewhere that you send samples to 19:15 < kanzure> always problems with repositioning the sample 19:15 < ParahSailin> optics is 16th century tech 19:15 < kanzure> so what? 19:15 < ParahSailin> its easier than robotics 19:16 < kanzure> labs seem to be the only industry that have resisted centralization of most of their equipment 19:17 < ParahSailin> often when one thing is extremely cheap, people do not develop new technologies to replace/compete with it 19:18 < kanzure> cars aren't cheap but millions have them anyway 19:20 < ParahSailin> thats not analogous in any way to the glut of grad student and undergrad labor 19:24 < kanzure> so the only reason labs aren't centralized is because of unlimited stupid surplus labor? 19:26 -!- kyknos [~kyknos@89.233.130.143] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:30 < ParahSailin> theres probably a number of compounding reasons 19:36 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:38 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-76-167-105-53.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:40 < kanzure> yashgaroth: which lab things will never be centralized in a remote megalab cloud thing? 19:40 < yashgaroth> angst? you mean like roboticized remote labs? 19:43 < kanzure> yeah 19:43 < kanzure> like, microscopes are still in every lab 19:43 < kanzure> but dna synthesis and transgenic mice are by mail 19:43 < kanzure> and it is weird 19:43 < yashgaroth> many labs don't bother with a microscope, but they're only $300; unless they're doing fluorescence stuff 19:44 < yashgaroth> dna synthesis as I've said before is best centralized/outsourced because "oh no what if synthesize ebola" 19:44 < yashgaroth> also good luck with getting a robot to insert a modified cell into a mouse blastocyst 19:44 < kanzure> that's a stupid reason not to use your own synthesizer 19:44 < yashgaroth> well it's enforced by people with guns 19:45 < yashgaroth> FDA and DEA may be annoying, but DHS is a whole different level 19:47 < yashgaroth> most day-to-day bio work can be done by a high schooler, even PhD work since unless they're director level PhDs are often still just pipetting in the lab getting RSIs 19:48 < yashgaroth> it's when something goes wrong that humans are considered useful/blameable 19:50 < kanzure> as far as i know current lab equipment has never been held back by FDA/DEA concerns 19:51 < yashgaroth> FDA enjoys fucking up the ability to use lab equipment, but for R&D work they're not a problem no 19:52 < yashgaroth> and when the lab is all robots, you'll need one guy around to hit the machines and curse at them until they work. me, I have years of experience with that 19:54 < yashgaroth> also what robot available today will chainsaw giardia-infested piglet carcasses in half so they fit into a biohazard bag? wait, actually that's ripe for automation 19:54 < kanzure> "one guy around to hit the machines and curse at them until they work" fun fact this also works on people 20:03 < yashgaroth> anyway I can't really speak to lab automation, for certain specific super-high-throughput stuff in 96/384-well plates a room-sized Tecan can be cost effective, but otherwise you're doing a lot of moving samples between various legacy equipment 20:04 < kanzure> sure but lab technicians at megacorp could move stuff too, you know 20:04 < yashgaroth> oh well that's what Quintiles is 20:04 < kanzure> yeah but there's lots of CROs and there's still lots of individual labs too 20:05 < kanzure> i am wondering if there are general structural reasons for why there will always be labs (or if there wont be) 20:05 < yashgaroth> soon it will all be Quintiles, at least that's the fear 20:05 < kanzure> i think it's something like.. at the edges you can do more (e.g. without standards yet) compared to the programming and hooking up of stuff inside of a centralized megalab 20:07 < yashgaroth> if you're good you can do the same work as a mega-CRO for less than their markup, most of the cost isn't people or equipment capital, it's daily reagent use 20:08 < kanzure> plus retraining, right? you have to make sure the CRO actually knows your shitty new protocol 20:08 < yashgaroth> well that too, not to mention people worrying about their jobs being outsourced while they're 'training' their replacement 20:10 < yashgaroth> the reagents are the vast majority of costs; I rarely use less than 100X my pay in consumables every day 20:14 < kanzure> i dunno how much inefficiency there is in manufacturing research chemicals 20:14 < kanzure> dow plants look like they are fairly efficient 20:14 < kanzure> and i assume that the high costs are necessary to keep the factories running at all 20:16 < yashgaroth> sure everyone needs metric tons of sodium hydroxide, but when you're using say Estrone 3-(β-D-glucuronide) there's less economy of scale 20:16 < kanzure> the market demand for DMSO can't be extraordinarily high can it.. 20:16 < kanzure> your example is better damn 20:16 < yashgaroth> blew 10 grams of that last week making some shit, and sure it gets cheaper in bulk but not that much 20:17 < yashgaroth> $1585 for 100mg from sigma, sounds right 20:17 < yashgaroth> our tubing costs $40/foot, and I string that shit up like birthday decorations 20:18 < yashgaroth> single use only of course 20:18 < kanzure> of course 20:18 < yashgaroth> we could validate cleaning it but ehhhh 20:25 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26 < yashgaroth> and let's not get started on $1000+/mg for niche antibodies, so the impetus to save X% over Y years by using robots vs people becomes a less pressing concern 20:27 < yashgaroth> it's still inevitable though 20:28 < kanzure> so every lab gets robots, or the robots all exist at a single mega lab 20:30 < yashgaroth> consolidation does seem favorable in that case, but the nightmare/future is: Quintiles buys up all the CROs, ThermoFisher buys up all the reagent and equipment suppliers, and big pharma lays off everyone below the VPs and just manages the money/acquisitions/advertising 20:31 -!- Adifex|zzz is now known as Adifex 20:31 < kanzure> right, i expect big pharmas to do that anyway, and they would outsource advertising btw 20:31 < yashgaroth> well they need something to do between lines of coke 20:32 < kanzure> big pharma treats their internal labs sorta like CROs anyway (except without the competition) 20:33 < kanzure> https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steamos_mesa 20:33 < yashgaroth> internal labs are the beaten wife, and all those sexy little startups are just waiting to get sugar-daddied 20:37 < yashgaroth> I'm still not disillusioned with biotech yet, somehow...I try not to think about it, mostly 20:38 < kanzure> ultimately biotech still has to happen, even if the current industry is fucked up 20:38 < kanzure> however, change will not come from the current industry 20:39 < kanzure> it will come from some perpendicular place 20:39 < yashgaroth> one does hope 20:51 < ParahSailin> kanzure: pm 20:51 < kanzure> ok 20:58 -!- benkay [~user@216-161-94-151.ptld.qwest.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:03 -!- benkay [~user@216-161-94-151.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:34 -!- Baube [~Baube@65.95.14.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:38 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-76-167-105-53.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:47 -!- smeaaagle [~smeaaagle@2002:6ca6:4fb1::6ca6:4fb1] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:51 -!- smeaaagle [~smeaaagle@2002:6ca6:4fb1::6ca6:4fb1] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:22 -!- Adifex is now known as Adifex|away 22:45 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:59 -!- benkay [~user@216-161-94-151.ptld.qwest.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:04 -!- benkay [~user@216-161-94-151.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:23 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:28 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:30 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:35 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Sat Mar 29 00:00:17 2014