--- Log opened Tue Apr 15 00:00:40 2014
00:01 < kanzure> 2002-07-13 19:48:35 < Alex_Future_Bokov> However, my friendliness is not unconditional, nor do I expect anybody else's to be.
00:04 < kanzure> 2002-07-13 20:33:20 < Alex_Future_Bokov> Ever play Frontier Elite
00:04 < kanzure> 2002-07-13 20:34:23 < Alex_Future_Bokov> It had 3D graphics, endless missions, and an algorithmically generated galaxy with thousands of planets, economies, missions... all fitting onto four 3.5" floppies.
00:08 < kanzure> 2002-07-13 21:06:32 < Michael> I don't think it's meaningful to say that a superintelligent mass of grey goo expanding at light speed has limitations relative to humans.
00:08 < kanzure> 2002-07-13 21:06:45 < Alex_Future_Bokov> My point still stands... it is possible that there are problems in the universe that are not solvable... and that at least places a constraint on AI.
00:08 < kanzure> 2002-07-13 21:07:05 < Michael> In what way are those "constraints" relevant?
00:08 < kanzure> 2002-07-13 21:07:13 < Alex_Future_Bokov> Sure it is. Maybe it's blindsided by the Sandberg limit.
00:08 < kanzure> 2002-07-13 21:07:22 < Michael> Sandberg limit?
00:08 < kanzure> 2002-07-13 21:07:36 < Alex_Future_Bokov> The size of a brain is limited by communication speeds.
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00:10 < kanzure> 2002-07-13 21:12:45 < Alex_Future_Bokov> Singletons are unlikely, and probably entropically unfavored.
00:18 < kanzure> 2002-07-18 15:58:20 < alexboko> "Oh, so when you ask somebody what they want to do with their life, what you *really* mean is 'What part of the singularity do you plan to help build?'"
00:18 < kanzure> i will never be this good at cult building
00:18 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i am not worthy
00:18 < cpopell> kanzure: it's self sustaining these days
00:19 < kanzure> a lot of it is directly attributable to eliezer's insistence i think
00:19 < cpopell> kanzure: I'd be curious to see activity logs of traffic over time on lesswrong.com
00:19 < kanzure> okay coming up. root ftw.
00:19 < cpopell> you have root on lesswrong.com?
00:21 < kanzure> i have root everywhere
00:21 < kanzure> REDACT REDACT
00:22 < kanzure> where do you think these old logs are coming from
00:22 < kanzure> out of my ass?
00:23 < cpopell> I hadn't made any assumptions, but if you had asked me before I probably would have said you hunted down holders of log files  and asked for them
00:23 < cpopell> or asked who had the
00:23 < cpopell> *them
00:23 < kanzure> i don't seem to be the type of person to ask
00:25 < kanzure> ahttp://pub5.di.fm/di_progressive_aac?type=.flv
00:25 < kanzure> oops
00:25 < kanzure> http://pub5.di.fm/di_progressive_aac?type=.flv
00:26 < cpopell> huh, ran across someone who mentioned Aaron Swartz in her okc profile
00:27 < kanzure> q: is that hot?
00:27 < cpopell> It's interesting. The rest of her profile is shitty ironic hipsterism though so fuck that.
00:27 < kanzure> you don't strike me as the okcupid type
00:27 < cpopell> O_o
00:27 < cpopell> Why?
00:28 < kanzure> that site attracts a different kind of weird
00:29 < cpopell> Eh, it's all types of weird. I've had decent success.
00:29 < kanzure> not usually "people who are able to make plans and execute on them"
00:29 < kanzure> (in general)
00:30 < cpopell> DC has a sufficient number of people on the site you can sort of sort them out
00:30 < cpopell> anyway, there's no better online dating site that I know of
00:32 < cpopell> plus it gives you more reasons to dislike me: I'm at a 99% match with Yudkowsky.
00:32 < kanzure> and what about me
00:32 < cpopell> I don't know your profile or if you even have one.
00:33 < cpopell> you and I have not really discussed our personal lives so much.
00:33 < kanzure> http://www.okcupid.com/profile/kanzure
00:34 < kanzure> 8% enemy. alright.
00:38 < cpopell> AlonzoTG's is, I believe, also under the same name
00:40 < cpopell> Unfortunately many of the girls I share media/science tastes with are also way too into feminism as an ideology for me.
00:41 < kanzure> they are pushy?
00:41 < cpopell> If feminism buzzwords show up repeatedly in a profile I don't bother
00:42 < cpopell> unless there's something reaaaally selling them.
00:42 < kanzure> "if you don't donate to a feminist organization of my choice every month, you're morally evil"
00:43 < kanzure> oh yeah i forgot about that
00:43 < cpopell> ie my last girlfriend, had queer politics and was rather into feminism, but pretty much almost every other factor was awesome so
00:43 < kanzure> one of eliezer's cult building tactics was convincing everyone who was clueless about what to do with their life
00:43 < kanzure> to donate a large chunk of their income to him
00:43 < kanzure> like >10%
00:43 < ParahSailin> cheaper than lds
00:44 < kanzure> everyone needs a hobby
00:44 < kanzure> mine just happens to be cool drugs and hacking shit
00:44 < kanzure> (i could have made that sound more snarky)
00:45 < cpopell> basically like 95% the people out here are political activists, people with liberal arts degrees working jobs they loathe, or federal government contractors who also work jobs they loathe
00:45 < kanzure> that's sticking it to the man, by cleaning their floors
00:45 < cpopell> I'm vaguely making an effort to move to Seattle
00:46 < cpopell> MIRI's 2012 total revenue was 1.6m
00:47 < ParahSailin> i thought if they got 500, hed finish his harry potter fanfic
00:51 < kanzure> extropians was 1800 emails/month at its peak pre-1993
00:52 < kanzure> they had a Hawthorne exchange thing
00:52 < kanzure> where each poster had shares that they bought/sold to each other
00:52 < kanzure> and this controlled email content quality somehow
01:00 < cpopell> Okay, I should actually get work done before bed.
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02:26 < superkuh> paperbot: http://www.jneurosci.org/content/34/2/586.long
02:27 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Amygdala%20Inputs%20to%20the%20Ventral%20Hippocampus%20Bidirectionally%20Modulate%20Social%20Behavior.pdf
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05:19 < eudoxia> pls make the sl4 markov bot happen
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09:33 < fireprfHydra> pretty cool: http://www.gadgetreview.com/2014/04/infrared-contact-lenses.html
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10:20 < kanzure> http://anothersb.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/my-life-as-phd-scientist-you-should.html
10:20 < kanzure> "My money wasn’t the only money problem.  There was no money for the research.  My PI (the professor and head of the lab) got rejected time after time for NIH grant funding (and every other funding organization out there).  Ivy League, and he was still relying on his start-up money to cover the costs.  The stats at the time (which haven’t improved) were that < 3% of all grant applications were funded.  Unfortunately my boss was never part ...
10:20 < kanzure> ... of that 3%.  In the six years I worked there, he never got a single grant for the cancer research."
10:20 < kanzure> "Douglas Prasher got the shortest end of the stick.  He should have gotten the Nobel Prize.  He got the opposite.  Prasher cloned and sequenced the gene for Green Fluorescent Protein (GFP).  And Prasher was the first to propose that GFP could be used as a tracer molecule.  He wrote a grant detailing how GFP could be used as a reporter to measure the levels of gene expression and track the localization of proteins in cells.  Every geneticist ...
10:21 < kanzure> ... and molecular biologist alive today uses GFP assays in their research.  GFP revolutionized the field and allowed scientists to make rapid leaps forward.  Not surprisingly, the work for GFP received the Nobel Prize.  Only, Prasher didn’t win it."
10:21 < kanzure> "You see, that grant he wrote about GFP never got funded.  The reviewers of the grant thought his ideas were crazy.  Without funding, Prasher didn’t get tenure.  He had to close his lab.  He gave his GFP samples and ideas to his fellow colleagues.  He knew how important GFP was, and he didn’t want it to be lost.  With no funding, Prasher was forced out of science altogether.  He became a shuttle bus driver for a car dealership. "
10:21 < delinquentme> kanzure, your fav language for skrapering ... still python yeah?
10:21 < delinquentme> also functional programming?  I was gonna write a scraper in haskell for the goggles
10:22 < kanzure> "And every scientist I know is in the same predicament.  Science will fail because the System is running the scientists out of it.  Every human suffers because of it.  Cancer affects 1 in 3.  Someone close to you will get it.  How many could be saved if the system didn’t fail scientists like Douglas Prasher?  Like the 2/3 of the PhDs that are forced out of science?   "
10:24 < kanzure> yep i still use python for scraping
10:25 < kanzure> if haskell can use the gobject bindings to webkit then go for it
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10:27 < mosasaur> A much as I agree with sentiment, by the time one gets to be a PhD one has to already have accepted this corruption for several years. The real problem starts much much earlier, so focusing on unlucky PhD's (who are after all the relatively lucky ones to get this far in an unfair system) is kind of silly or hypocritical.
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10:27 < kanzure> i dunno if it's an explicit sort of corruption, but sure
10:28 < kanzure> what would you count as the much earlier stuff?
10:29 < mosasaur> For example not being allowed to choose one's own research topic, instead one has to work on someone else projects.
10:29 < kanzure> true, but you can sometimes try to pick an advisor
10:30 < mosasaur> Yeah that's for the lucky ones.
10:31 < kanzure> i haven't seen many proposals for restructuring modern science
10:31 < kanzure> there was this stuff:
10:31 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/open-science-summit-2010/jamie-love-knowledge-ecology-international/
10:32 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/open-science-summit-2010/innovation-paradigm-qa/
10:32 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/open-science-summit-2010/aiden-hollis-health-impact-fund/
10:38 < ParahSailin> kanzure: how often is it that you need a full rendering engine rather than html parsing for a scraper
10:39 < kanzure> sometimes i don't want to bother reverse engineering some pile of javascript
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10:39 < kanzure> it's actually not that often i suppose
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10:41 < catern> mosasaur: you mean as an undergraduate, or what?
10:41 < kanzure> a lot of the incentives in modern science are really out of whack
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10:41 < kanzure> and a lot of students-as-researchers get worked into the ground
10:42 < kanzure> oof the #virus logs are 113 MB
10:42 < catern> if they get to pick their research topic, does it still matter that they're worked into the ground?
10:43 < catern> oh, misread, i interpreted phd as graduate student
10:44 < kanzure> it's weird but the fact that there's so much good labor at such low prices is actually beneficial to this channel because it means projects are cheaper to implement with armies of bio labor
10:44 < catern> indeed
10:45 < catern> in fields of great interest and self sacrifice, be the buyer, not the seller
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10:57 < chris_99> what are the virus logs kanzure?
10:57 < kanzure> i'm just dumping logs from irc.lucifer.com
10:57 < kanzure> channels like #sl4 #extropy #immortal #immortal2
10:57 < chris_99> aha what's #virus about?
10:57 < kanzure> no idea
11:13 < kanzure> here's 1 MB of #transinst http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/extropians/irclogs/transinst.log
11:17 < kanzure> 2003-04-21 19:42:22 < MichaelA> Ultimately it would be nice if more transhumanists moved to media centres
11:17 < kanzure> ugh
11:20 < kanzure> well this is a weird one: http://web.archive.org/web/20030228085849/http://singularityactiongroup.com/
11:20 < kanzure> 2003-04-23 18:32:23 < celindra> Sing. Act. Group hangs out in #singactgrp on this server
11:20 < kanzure> "list of project teams" http://web.archive.org/web/20030427041727/http://home.mchsi.com/~deering9/teamlist.html
11:27 < ParahSailin> guinea needs draco
11:27 < kanzure> 2003-05-12 19:56:37 < Eliezer> If Heather has the most tremendous orgasm of her life, by a margin of 10%, once per year│, then after a mere 250 years she will need to have orgasms weighing over 48,000 pounds, with a street price of more than two billion dollars.
11:33 < chris_99> http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2014/04/cheap-microscopes
11:36 < mosasaur> too bad that lovelife link doesn't resolve anymore
11:38 < dingo> them dollar microscopes are cool
11:38 < dingo> wish i had them as a kid
11:39 < dingo> every xmas i asked for a microscope for years, gave up and stuck with computer science haha
11:42 < chris_99> haha
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11:50 < kanzure> virus.log:2007-10-02 21:22:38 < kanzure> kanzure (~bryan@cpe-70-113-54-112.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #virus
11:51 < kanzure> looks like i was a little late to the party
11:51 < kanzure> virus.log:2011-05-17 21:05:54 < eudoxia> eudoxia (~eudoxia@r190-135-2-238.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) has joined #virus
11:51 < kanzure> not as late as eudoxia though :)
12:06 < Urchin> virus?
12:07 < chris_99> was it computer viruses
12:08 < Urchin> there was a transhumanist religion called church of virus once
12:08 < kanzure> yep, that's what the logs are
12:08 < Urchin> I don't know what happened to it
12:08 < kanzure> it's their irc channel
12:08 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/extropians/irclogs/
12:08 < chris_99> oh
12:10 < Urchin> that irc channel is still alive
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12:10 < kanzure> how do you know?
12:11 < Urchin> log appears to be recently modified
12:11 < kanzure> i dumped the log from mysql
12:11 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/extropians/irclogs/dumplogs.py
12:12 < Urchin> ok, I'll check it out
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13:18 < kanzure> https://github.com/weidai11/extropians
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13:37 < eudoxia> today outside of the office there was a guy dressed as a giant bitcoin
13:38 < eudoxia> i wanted to take a picture with him but by the time i'd left the building he was too far for me to waddle to him
13:38 < eudoxia> you'd think a guy in a giant foam suit would be slower
13:42 < eudoxia> kanzure: i think #virus may have been that, uh, 'transtopia' thing. cf. dalibor den otter
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13:43  * eudoxia reads the logs
13:43 < eudoxia> right, the CoV. i'd completely forgotten about those
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14:05 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TinyTIM "In July, 1990, TinyTIM was moved from the gnu.ai.mit.edu machine to a system hosted at the Supercollider in Texas."
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14:10 < kanzure> 278M lesswrong.log
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14:12 < kanzure> exi-digest-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu exi-daily-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu
14:18 < kanzure> 31M if anyone wants to grab all those irclogs http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/extropians/tarchives/irclogs.tar.xz
14:18 < nsh> *yoink*
14:22 < eudoxia> hey you never know you might turn over an irc log and find satoshi
14:22 < kanzure> well we certainly found hal
14:22 < jrayhawk> lesswrong folks get pretty pissed off at publicly accessible logs, so you might socially inconvenience whomever made them
14:23 < eudoxia> jrayhawk: why was that again?
14:23 < eudoxia> cult bullshit or pony bullshit
14:23 < kanzure> the dump doesn't include lesswrong
14:23 < jrayhawk> okay
14:23 < kanzure> it's just "really old logs like #sl4 and #extropy #immortal #vpsummit #virus"
14:24 < jrayhawk> eudoxia: probably fears of pitchfork-bearing mobs getting pissed off at discussions of the utility of human life and child molestation and transphobia and feminism and other hotbutton things
14:25 < kanzure> oh brother
14:25 < eudoxia> jrayhawk: ah so basically hiding their cult bullshit
14:25 < kanzure> utility of human life is not cult bullshit
14:25 < eudoxia> kanzure: are there logs of that MUD, 'The Beyond', that run on lucifer.com?
14:26 < kanzure> what would logs of a MUD look like?
14:26 < jrayhawk> eudoxia: "safe space" is the relevant term in social psychology
14:26 < jrayhawk> #lesswrong is a "safe space" where they will not be persecuted for discussing their areas of interest
14:27 < jrayhawk> http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/01/12/a-response-to-apophemi-on-triggers/
14:28 < cpopell2> 'The rationalist community is a safe space for people who obsessively focus on reason and argument even when it is socially unacceptable to do so.' I have made PatrickRobotham really angry.
14:29 < jrayhawk> well, in theory, anyway
14:29 < kanzure> yep that one's going into gradstudentbot
14:30 < cpopell2> Patrick really didn't get how one could have certain fairly progressive beliefs AND not identify as a feminist
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14:36 < kanzure> http://hackage.haskell.org/package/clash-prelude-0.5/docs/CLaSH-Tutorial.html "functional hardware description"
14:38 < kanzure> allen mouse brain connectivity atlas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CvY-y2IPdg
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15:06 < kanzure> oh that's right, feynman's kid was an extropian http://www.lucifer.com/~sasha/bostropians.html
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15:14 < eudoxia> shame he didn't stick around, might have made good propaganda
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15:15 < kanzure> well he's probably hounded by everyone
15:15 < kanzure> "come on! show me path integral things!"
15:16 < eudoxia> hahaha
15:17 < eudoxia> the lisp people didn't exploit feynman enough for propaganda purposes
15:17 < eudoxia> (he worked on the connection machine)
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18:20 < da_shirlz_HBIC_> paperbot http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM198001243020401
18:20 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/4d3c26655646c0f7ea881aa485c5895d.txt
18:24 < da_shirlz_HBIC_> paperbot http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2012/mb/c2mb05461b#!divAbstract
18:24 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Optimized%20TAL%20effector%20nucleases%20%28TALENs%29%20for%20use%20in%20treatment%20of%20sickle%20cell%20disease.pdf
18:26 < da_shirlz_HBIC_> paperbot http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167779913000875
18:26 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/94873809e27bdcd6298293a22a33210f.txt
18:27 < da_shirlz_HBIC_> paperbot http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bit.25018/abstract;jsessionid=653D4CDB8A06D4752EFFDFF5097009C1.f01t03?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false
18:27 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/b286fa78f3be674f713063a984c1b80.txt
18:28 < kanzure> try not including userIsAuthenticated=false or other giveaways
18:29 < da_shirlz_HBIC_> paperbot http://www.cell.com/trends/biotechnology/abstract/S0167-7799(13)00087-5?_returnURL=http%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0167779913000875%3Fshowall%3Dtrue&showall=true=?_returnURL=http%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0167779913000875%3Fshowall%3Dtrue&showall=true=
18:29 < da_shirlz_HBIC_> thanks will try
18:29 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/ZFN%2C%20TALEN%2C%20and%20CRISPR_Cas-based%20methods%20for%20genome%20engineering.pdf
18:29 < kanzure> what brings you here?
18:31 < da_shirlz_HBIC_> personal research
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18:49 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=5141ea95 Bryan Bishop: some thoughts on a minimum nootropic
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19:40 < kanzure> "Street-Fighting Mathematics: The Art of Educated Guessing and Opportunistic Problem Solving" https://mitpress.mit.edu/sites/default/files/titles/content/9780262514293_Creative_Commons_Edition.pdf
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21:58 < nmz787> paperbot: http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.mee.2012.04.002
21:58 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/c2533ed4873bc55a62d9e6e354abbfb.txt
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--- Log closed Wed Apr 16 00:00:41 2014