--- Log opened Fri May 02 00:00:57 2014 00:09 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:19 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:19 -!- sapiosexual [~sapiosexu@d75-156-89-72.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:33 -!- cpopell`gym is now known as cpopell`sleep 00:34 -!- Adifex|pub is now known as Adifex 00:50 -!- nmz787_i [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-jyngciaftyqznvxd] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:54 -!- nsh [~nsh@host217-43-193-21.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:05 -!- nmz787_i [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-jyngciaftyqznvxd] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:05 < fenn> i guess this is my birthday present: http://fennetic.net/irc/principles_of_naval_weapons_systems.jpg 01:06 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-227-186-59.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-234-86-210.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:12 -!- chido [chidori@pasky.or.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:12 -!- chido [chidori@pasky.or.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 01:17 -!- strangewarp_ [~strangewa@c-67-176-51-230.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:18 -!- sheena1 [~home@67.201.165.63] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:20 -!- sheena [~home@67.201.165.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:22 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:23 -!- strages__ [sid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-odbzloiohhzmlywc] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:23 -!- JayDugger1 [~jwdugger@pool-173-74-79-151.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:34 < fenn> "does it matter where each of the 2 wires are placed" you want to align the electric field with the electret orientation of the crystal, so having wires at opposite diagonals would probably behave differently. i'm not really sure what would happen, if anything. maybe you'd get a sqrt(2) reduction on intensity for the same voltage 01:34 -!- justanotheruser1 [~justanoth@irc.redwhore.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:34 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: audy, augur, apex, justanotheruser, Zhwazi, balrog 01:35 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: kardan, strangewarp, strages_, JayDugger 01:35 -!- Netsplit over, joins: kardan 01:35 -!- strages__ is now known as strages_ 01:35 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Zhwazi 01:36 -!- Netsplit over, joins: balrog 01:42 -!- HashNuke [uid12117@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iidoqunvialdcgqi] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 01:46 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@185.5.8.81] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:46 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@185.5.8.81] has quit [Changing host] 01:46 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:48 -!- apex [~tpi@c-107-4-148-59.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:53 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:53 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Leaving..."] 01:53 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:59 -!- audy [~audy@heyaudy.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:22 -!- entelechios [~elysium@190.5.213.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:04 -!- mosasaur [~mosasaur@178.227.77.234] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:12 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-78-149-142-100.as13285.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:13 < AshleyWaffle> http://mentalfloss.com/article/30616/could-humans-hibernate 03:13 < AshleyWaffle> http://www.livescience.com/33053-can-humans-hibernate-suspended-animation.html 03:13 < AshleyWaffle> http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/2013/09/04/could-people-hibernate-lemurs-give-clues/ 03:13 < AshleyWaffle> apparently it hasnt been tested on humans because of "ethical" concerns 03:13 < AshleyWaffle> any diy'ers done it? 03:13 < AshleyWaffle> tl;dr inducing hibernation via hydrogen sulfide 03:14 < AshleyWaffle> possibly possible in humans, untested because of "ethics" 03:16 < mosasaur> But the stench AshleyWaffle, wouldn't it be unbearable? 03:18 < AshleyWaffle> i dont know 03:18 < AshleyWaffle> would it? 03:18 < AshleyWaffle> besides that you instantly lose consciousness anyway, so irrelevant 03:18 < AshleyWaffle> in the successful attempts, metabolism slowed and stuff 03:18 < AshleyWaffle> similar to suspended animation 03:18 < AshleyWaffle> not totally, but better than now 03:19 < AshleyWaffle> i can imagine people who'd prefer to be cryo'd now but the law keeps them doing this as an alternative 03:19 < mosasaur> I was just hoping there might be a more dignified way. 03:19 < AshleyWaffle> become single, do a job a month to maintain the super basic rent, meditate 03:19 < AshleyWaffle> mosasaur: inject? 03:19 < AshleyWaffle> oh wait its a gas 03:19 < AshleyWaffle> then no 03:19 < AshleyWaffle> you could breathe through mouth instead tho 03:20 < AshleyWaffle> you also cant leave it on 03:20 < AshleyWaffle> youd have to cycle with air i think 03:20 < AshleyWaffle> after a certain number of hours 03:20 < AshleyWaffle> er not meditate 03:20 < AshleyWaffle> meant hibernate 03:20 < AshleyWaffle> lol 03:22 < mosasaur> I personally lean towards stasis fields, but it might be more a faith of the heart thing. 03:29 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:34 < mosasaur> Unordered lists are a byeffect of the hashing paradigm, once we have practical interprocess communication and object sharing worked out, having lists be automatically ordered will be more natural. Not to mention the option of finally having a bitarray mapped set type available with minimal effort. 03:38 -!- Adifex is now known as popifex 03:49 -!- popifex is now known as Adifex 04:02 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:14 -!- mosasaur [~mosasaur@178.227.77.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:15 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-78-149-142-100.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:17 -!- mosasaur [~mosasaur@95.98.204.105] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:29 * mosasaur goes into fourfire mode 04:31 < mosasaur> < fenn> if "immutable deep structures exist in all cultures" aren't genetic, then where did they come from? Too bad you didn't read Castaneda, it's all here under foreign installation http://www.metahistory.org/gnostique/gnosticastaneda/CCgnosis.php 04:48 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:50 -!- nsh [~nsh@host217-43-193-21.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:50 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:52 * mosasaur back in real time 04:56 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:59 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:03 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:21 -!- marciogm [~marciogm@179.126.71.80] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:31 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:32 -!- Adifex is now known as Adifex|zzz 05:39 -!- chido [chidori@pasky.or.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:39 -!- chido [chidori@pasky.or.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 05:46 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@185.5.8.81] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:46 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@185.5.8.81] has quit [Changing host] 05:46 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:52 -!- dcary [46b171ae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.177.113.174] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:54 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:00 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@179.26.164.9] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:00 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 06:03 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:05 -!- audy [~audy@heyaudy.com] has quit [Changing host] 06:05 -!- audy [~audy@unaffiliated/audy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:05 -!- eudoxia_ [~eudoxia@r179-25-186-220.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:05 -!- eudoxia_ [~eudoxia@r179-25-186-220.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Client Quit] 06:06 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@179.26.164.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:16 * heath waves gm 06:25 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 06:29 < fenn> mmm the delicious taste of export-controlled cheese 06:31 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:54 < cluckj> mmmm cheese 06:54 < cluckj> fenn, http://www.amazon.com/The-Life-Cheese-Crafting-California/dp/0520270185/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1399038868&sr=8-1 06:58 -!- ielo [~ielo@134.219.227.35] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:08 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:18 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:25 < kanzure> "Although vendors often tell customers they can’t remove hard coded passwords from their devices or take other steps to secure their systems because it would require them to take the systems back to the FDA for approval afterward, Erven points out that the FDA guidelines for medical equipment includes a cybersecurity clause that allows a post-market device to be patched without requiring recertification by the FDA." 07:26 < xmj> heh that's just the vendor being to lazy to properly implement customer support prodecures 07:26 < kanzure> .title http://www.wired.com/2014/04/hospital-equipment-vulnerable/ 07:26 < yoleaux> It’s Insanely Easy to Hack Hospital Equipment 07:27 < cluckj> my pump is apparently pretty vulnerable too 07:27 < kanzure> "They found a number of infusion pumps that have a web administration interface for nurses to change drug dosage levels from their workstations. Some of the systems are not password-protected, while others have hardcoded passwords that are weak and universal to all customers." 07:27 < kanzure> "Last spring, the FDA and DHS issued a notice to the health care industry about problems with hard-coded passwords in medical devices after two researchers found them in about 300 medical devices, including ventilators, pumps, defibrillators and surgical and anesthesia devices." 07:27 < kanzure> https://ics-cert.us-cert.gov/alerts/ICS-ALERT-13-164-01 07:28 < kanzure> http://www.databreachtoday.com/medical-device-vulnerability-alert-issued-a-5847 07:28 < kanzure> so what is the fda medical device review period for if they're not actually checking this shit? 07:29 < cluckj> probably stalling products to make a bunch of money on stock options 07:29 < kanzure> .title http://www.fda.gov/MedicalDevices/DeviceRegulationandGuidance/GuidanceDocuments/ucm077812.htm 07:30 < yoleaux> Cybersecurity for Networked Medical Devices Containing Off-the-Shelf (OTS) Software 07:33 < kanzure> cluckj: have you dumped the software from your insulin pump? you should do this. 07:33 < cluckj> not yet 07:34 < cluckj> I'll just wait for the company to release a firmware update and snarf that 07:34 < kanzure> they make you personally apply the firmware updates? nice 07:35 < kanzure> .ud snarf 07:36 < kanzure> .u snarf 07:36 < yoleaux> No characters found 07:36 < cluckj> lol 07:36 < kanzure> ud is supposed to be urban dictionary 07:51 -!- marciogm [~marciogm@179.126.71.80] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:04 < fenn> cluckj: is "the life of cheese" like that daft punk tomato sauce video http://youtube.com/watch?v=uURB-vo9rZ4 08:05 < cluckj> yes 08:08 < cluckj> but cheesier 08:11 < fenn> yesterday i was so zzorped out of my skull, i was basically running on autopilot. i went back and looked at what i wrote and it all pretty much made sense, except for a few sense inversion errors like omitting "not" 08:11 < fenn> i still hate databases, yes 08:11 < cluckj> lol 08:12 < fenn> i guess that's what it feels like to be a migrating vulture and fly from brazil to cuba with half your brain asleep 08:15 < gradstudentbot> Should I still be wearing gloves? 08:18 < fenn> big story in "science" the magazine/journal: continuous graphene monolayers can be synthesized by epitaxial growth on a germanium coated silicon wafer, easily detached without tearing or distortion, and the wafer can be re-used: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/suppl/2014/04/02/science.1252268.DC1/Lee.SM.pdf (supp material basically as good as the article) 08:18 < fenn> http://www.sciencemag.org/content/329/5996/1188.abstract?sid=f67ce118-a8d1-4627-826b-db4bb29bf0a4 08:18 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1126%2Fscience.1192907 08:19 < fenn> it's such a simple process (1% solution of CH4 in H2 on Ge on Si) that it's hard to believe nobody had figured it out before now 08:20 < fenn> the next page has an article about using graphene wafers for high rate but high "efficiency" filtering of water or other chemicals (infinite efficiency really) 08:21 < fenn> er, s/wafers/perforated films/ 08:21 < xentrac> efficiency here is measured by the ratio between the Carnot energy needed to reduce the entropy by the amount they achieve, and the actual energy consumed? 08:22 < fenn> no, efficiency in filters is the percentage of particulates you want to remove (or whatever you're trying to filter out) 08:22 < mosasaur> if we only could origami these wafers into diamonds 08:22 < xentrac> oh 08:22 < fenn> mosasaur: but graphene is better than diamond? well, different 08:23 < fenn> anyway you can CVD diamond too, juri_ is attempting that 08:23 < ebowden> https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/labs/Nedergaard-Lab/publications/pdfs/Astrocytic-Complexity.pdf 08:24 < fenn> Epitaxial Growth of Single Crystal Diamond on Silicon Paperback 08:24 < fenn> by Philip W. Morrison Jr 08:24 < mosasaur> I was thinking of leaving a few strategic holes in the graphene layer and fold it up by the lines 08:25 < fenn> er, a diamond is a 2d shape though 08:25 < fenn> maybe you meant pyramids or octahedrons 08:26 < mosasaur> yeah it's a bit like converting a go-board to 3d 08:26 < mosasaur> from 4 liberties to 6 08:27 < mosasaur> it needs some very complex folding 08:28 < fenn> i saw a diamond lattice go board with origami "stones" 08:28 < fenn> that probably ticks all your boxes 08:29 < mosasaur> well how many liberties does graphene have? 08:30 < fenn> jeez how did duck duck go not find this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_variants#Other_than_2D 08:30 < fenn> graphene has 3 08:30 -!- strangewarp_ is now known as strangewarp 08:30 < mosasaur> and diamond? 08:30 < fenn> 4 08:33 < fenn> the magical mystical hybridized sp2 double bond, where is it? what is it? 08:33 < mosasaur> so building tetrahedrons from a triangular wafer 08:33 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:34 < fenn> but that's the dual of the diamond bond structure (faces of tetrahedron are perpendicular to edges/bonds in diamond) 08:35 < fenn> i need to make a model out of straws 08:35 < mosasaur> nah just draw me a sketch 08:35 < fenn> just look at the go page 08:36 < mosasaur> OK 08:36 < mosasaur> wow that 3d board is infested with bats 08:37 < fenn> respect your elders 08:37 -!- justanotheruser1 is now known as justanotheruser 08:37 < fenn> not just any bats, time traveling bats from another dimension 08:37 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@irc.redwhore.net] has quit [Changing host] 08:37 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:38 < mosasaur> they're partly folded suliban tetras 08:39 < fenn> was that some kind of star trek reference? 08:39 < mosasaur> it seems we'd have to convert all the 60 degree angles to 90 08:40 < mosasaur> lob says you know 08:40 < fenn> who is lob? 08:41 < mosasaur> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%B6b%27s_theorem 08:41 < mosasaur> .title 08:41 < yoleaux> mosasaur: Sorry, that command (.title) crashed. 08:42 < fenn> what geometry is that http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Suliban_cell_ship_(spherical) 08:43 < fenn> two cross sections are hexagons and one is an octahedron? 08:43 < gradstudentbot> I.. I don't think this chart is accurate. 08:44 < fenn> gah stupid wikipedia equations 08:44 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:45 < mosasaur> I was meant more metaphorical, I don't actually now any math 08:47 < fenn> lob's theorem says "if lob's theorem says it's true, it's true" so it's true 08:47 < fenn> seems to be the gist of it 08:47 < mosasaur> A bit like if you can simulate a chess engine really well, you have a chess engine 08:49 < fenn> i don't like these sort of "what is 'is' anyway, can we ever really know anything" philosophical tail-chasing exercises 08:51 < mosasaur> you should make a database of things you don't like 08:52 < kanzure> why? 08:52 < mosasaur> because it would be self-referential 08:52 < kanzure> that's a bad reason 08:53 < fenn> .py x='x=%s;x%%repr(x)';x%repr(x) 08:53 < fenn> yoleaux is busy 08:53 < fenn> doing bot stuff, you know 08:55 < kanzure> i think this batch of adderall is bad 08:56 < fenn> no, it's the woodpecker signal, not the adderall 08:56 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:56 < kanzure> huh? 08:57 < kanzure> either the batch of adderall is bad, or someone is hogging all the computational capacity. probably the mathematicians today. 08:58 < fenn> what happens when the adderall is bad? 08:59 < fenn> yoleaux stops calculating? 08:59 < kanzure> same thing as if not taking adderall 08:59 < kanzure> basically, think of delinquentme 09:00 < fenn> extremely powerful, over 10 MW in some cases, and broadcast in the shortwave radio bands. They appeared without warning, sounding like a sharp, repetitive tapping noise at 10 Hz, which led to it being nicknamed the Russian Woodpecker. The random frequency hops disrupted legitimate broadcast, amateur radio, irc chatbots, commercial aviation communications, utility transmissions, and resulted in 09:00 < fenn> thousands of complaints by many countries worldwide. 09:00 < fenn> and many amateur computer hackers 09:01 < fenn> see also: cobra mist, global mind control, HAARP, the philadelphia experiment, montauk, and the number 23 09:01 < kanzure> pfft still amateur 09:04 < fenn> they must have chosen that suliban cell ship design so it could be constructed out of legos 09:05 < fenn> if we're going to use hieroglyphics, why can't all equations look like this: (apologies in advance to kanzure) http://yudkowsky.net/assets/44/LobsTheorem.pdf?1323322713 09:06 < mosasaur> they'd make great sensory deprivations tanks 09:06 < fenn> mosasaur: do you have any interests of your own? 09:07 < mosasaur> nah, I'm parasitic 09:07 < mosasaur> but I share 09:08 < fenn> through repeated host-parasite interactions an eventual symbiosis can occur 09:08 < kanzure> that's his way of saying he wants to be your friend 09:09 < fenn> it's my way of justifying not calling for bannination 09:09 < kanzure> yeah i was actually wondering if i should get out the banhammer 09:09 < kanzure> but i would have to write down an elaborate line of reasoning 09:09 < kanzure> and i don't feel capable of that at the moment 09:09 < fenn> the responsibility, it is heavy 09:10 < kanzure> it's curious that you came to the same conclusion 09:10 < mosasaur> I don't mind, I am who I am, many other channels 09:10 < fenn> it's interesting to think of people on the internet as occupying trophic niches 09:11 < kanzure> it's just energy gradients 09:11 < cluckj> lol 09:11 < fenn> carnivore = plagiarism, autotroph = blogger, herbivore = aggregator, bacteria = irc 09:12 < fenn> or something 09:12 < kanzure> that is too specifc, read more salthe or kauffman 09:12 < kanzure> http://www.nbi.dk/~natphil/salthe/ 09:13 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:13 < cluckj> sounds like that dude would be fun to get drunk with 09:13 < fenn> " I am a critic of Darwinian evolutionary theory -- which was my own erstwhile field of specialization in biology. My opposition is fundamentally to its sole reliance on competition as an explanatory principle" 09:14 < fenn> "[natural selection] it appears capable of explaining almost anything, and so we need to be cautious about its use. Is it a Borgesian cognitive poison?" 09:15 < cluckj> yeah 09:15 < cluckj> that's the jam 09:15 < fenn> slather it on, with labNEH 09:15 < cluckj> epistemologically untrustworthy theories 09:15 < fenn> .g labneh 09:15 < yoleaux> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strained_yogurt 09:19 < fenn> is he a deathist? "I postulate this decline to result from an increased rigidity imposed upon systems by information overload, thus interpreting senescence fundamentally as a general constraint of materiality." 09:20 < cluckj> no? 09:23 < fenn> some people think exponentials are just sigmoids plotted on a vertical scale that's too small 09:26 < fenn> either we will be constrained by the speed of light or the heat death of the universe 09:27 < fenn> bleh i can't read any more salthe 09:27 < kanzure> well it's better than blogovores or whatever 09:28 < fenn> is superkuh's tagline "i enjoy dissipating local energy gradients" based on salthe? 09:28 < superkuh> No. 09:28 < kanzure> iirc no, it's more likely to be related to lipid membrane biophysics 09:29 < fenn> or particle acceleration, heliophysics instrumentation or generally anything with a high rate of change in current? 09:29 < superkuh> Lets put it this way: if I see a rock precariously suspended on a ledge, I enjoy pushing it over. Who doesn't? 09:30 < kanzure> huh, a soldier of the church of discordia? 09:30 < fenn> i will patiently wait and use it to smite my enemies 09:31 < mosasaur> I'd rather leave some aji on the board, even play elsewhere 09:32 < kanzure> fenn: okay how about this dude, http://web.ncf.ca/collier/ 09:32 < superkuh> mosasaur, I'm very bad at go. I take dead groups just to minimize how much I have to think about. 09:33 < kanzure> i wonder if stu kauffman has been doing anything interesting 09:35 < kanzure> oh dear, his site just has a bunch of "neural circuits produce quantum coherence called consciousness", bleh 09:35 < kanzure> that's very disappointing 09:35 < fenn> and also wrong 09:35 < fenn> neural circuits don't exhibit quantum coherence 09:36 <@ParahSailin> landing at oakland in a bit 09:36 < kanzure> ParahSailin: go find Lemminkainen 09:36 < kanzure> and juul 09:37 < fenn> kanzure: is john collier just a random person you happen to be stalking? 09:38 < kanzure> kinda, i also run into him in inconvenient ways on occasion 09:38 < fenn> like when you are visiting durban south africa 09:39 < kanzure> internet is stranger than you'd think 09:39 < fenn> it's full of tubes! 09:40 < kanzure> this is all wrong anyway, wasn't i supposed to be doing something else 09:40 < fenn> so a zero day is a sharp energy gradient, what does an antivirus/security program do? 09:41 < fenn> should i eat the petroleum cake 09:41 < kanzure> not sure that's the right way to think about it.. the sploit unlocks information stored on computers that you otherwise didn't have access to. 09:42 < fenn> so a zero day tunnels through a barrier to a sharp energy gradient 09:43 < kanzure> i think the tunnel is the gradient, maybe? 09:43 < fenn> ---^|__ 09:43 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:43 < fenn> but a zero day is also information that can be dissipated 09:44 < kanzure> is that problematic? 09:44 < fenn> no, it's just weird 09:45 < kanzure> well you can feed on virus capsids if you had to 09:45 < kanzure> not a lot of nutrition content (hardly any) 09:45 < fenn> is that true? 09:45 < fenn> i honestly have no idea 09:45 < kanzure> .wik bacteriophage 09:45 < yoleaux> "A bacteriophage[needs IPA] (informally, phage[needs IPA]) is a virus that infects and replicates within bacteria. The term is derived from 'bacteria' and the Greek φαγεῖν phagein "to devour". Bacteriophages are composed of proteins that encapsulate a DNA or RNA genome, and may have relatively simple or elaborate structures." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteriophage 09:45 < kanzure> oh, wrong direction 09:46 < fenn> ok but i've never eaten a bowl of phagesauce 09:46 < fenn> we ate fage at phage camp 09:46 < kanzure> well maybe you're just not living 09:46 < fenn> .g fage 09:46 < yoleaux> http://usa.fage.eu/ 09:46 < fenn> labNEH 09:48 < fenn> alright, i'm going to try to dissipate the petroleum cake, call the police if i appear to be dead 09:49 < kanzure> so that they can arrest you? 09:49 < fenn> so they can pump my stomach and inject anti-cake chemicals into me or whatever 09:53 < fenn> http://www.carvel.com/public/images/ice-cream-cakes/holiday-cakes/school-days-cake.jpg 09:55 < fenn> http://www.carvel.com/public/images/ice-cream-cakes/carvelog-cakes/back-to-school-pencil-cake.jpg 09:55 < fenn> they didn't even try to sharpen it 09:57 < kanzure> aha, these pills are from actavis and not shire 10:00 <@_archels> hope you still have a stock of the good ones 10:01 < kanzure> how do they not test this stuff 10:01 < delinquentme> kanzure, ooo funny. 10:01 < delinquentme> how does a company typically approach a researcher to be on its advisory board? 10:02 <@_archels> kanzure: is it dated? 10:02 < kanzure> delinquentme: usually with an offer of money or equity, and an "executive summary", probably from someone who knows the researcher. 10:03 < delinquentme> ahh fuck 10:03 < delinquentme> well 10:04 < gradstudentbot> Well, you can't guarantee that. 10:04 < kanzure> _archels: says it expires april 2015 10:04 < fenn> could it be counterfeit 10:05 < fenn> do you have other actavis to compare it to 10:05 < fenn> hint: weigh it 10:05 < kanzure> i believe i have complained about manufacturer differences in the past 10:05 < kanzure> i suspect if i go look it's going to be actavis 10:05 < kanzure> i'll just have to avoid these assfucks 10:06 < kanzure> good thing i'm not presently "mission critical", jeesh 10:06 < kanzure> can't rely on anyone. might as well cook this shit on my onw. 10:06 < kanzure> *own. 10:06 < fenn> microfluidic time-release-amphetamine lab on a chip 10:07 < fenn> i guess you could just swallow the chip 10:08 < fenn> the "cake" turned out to be ice cream covered in icing, sitting on a bed of cocoa pebbles, not a cake at all 10:08 < fenn> what will they think of next 10:11 -!- mosasaur [~mosasaur@95.98.204.105] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:17 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:20 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:26 < kanzure> probably other sugary methods of deceit 10:32 < delinquentme> fenn, this is actually a really cool applications for a mini / cheap mass spec 10:32 < delinquentme> TEST YO DRUGS 10:32 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@ti0088a400-1897.bb.online.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:32 < delinquentme> Now im going back to trying to find nightmare cases or piggy ECM use in humans 10:32 < kanzure> delinquentme: why are you not on a stimulant drug? 10:33 < delinquentme> My fav is addies ... but I havn't pursued getting them consistently 10:33 < delinquentme> I have like 1 backup 20mg sitting around for the day I need to save the world 10:33 < delinquentme> but like cheap mass spec in the coke market? 10:33 < delinquentme> BIG deal 10:36 < delinquentme> kanzure, are you sending me some? 10:36 < kanzure> you didn't even answer my question 10:37 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:38 < delinquentme> I've not pursued it 10:38 < delinquentme> I would if it were readily available 10:39 < kanzure> go see a doctor 10:43 < delinquentme> lolol 10:43 < delinquentme> So if I want to find nightmare cases of what could go wrong with xenotransplantation 10:43 < delinquentme> what should I search for 10:44 < kanzure> xenotransplantation. 10:44 < delinquentme> I could go in with individual terms " xenotransplantation + teraroma " etc ... but how about something more scalable? 10:47 < kanzure> "No way, I love wearing a tux while I kill people. It makes me kind of feel like James Bond." 10:51 < delinquentme> Say I have a number of cells in a piece of tissue. Is there a way to free those cells from the structural protein ... without damaging them? 10:53 < Viper168> if I had to kill people, in a suit is probably how I'd prefer to do it 10:53 < Viper168> :P 10:53 < dingo> uh hmm 10:57 < delinquentme> Do you guys know if anyone has attempted to make a microfluidic scaffold and grow 3d cell cultures within that scaffold 10:58 < delinquentme> using the microfluidics as a way to control intracellular signaling? 10:58 -!- entelechios [~elysium@190.211.92.3] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:07 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.139.76] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:31 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:36 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:43 < chris_99> http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/2014/05/solar-jet-fuel-made-out-thin-air 11:44 -!- kardan [~kardan@2a02:810d:1100:af8:2459:9219:914a:2a99] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:05 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=de2c43f6 Bryan Bishop: more of the markram transcript 12:05 < kanzure> there we go, 12:05 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/markram-2006/ 12:05 < kanzure> now nobody has to watch a silly video 12:08 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:08 -!- sapiosexual [~sapiosexu@d75-156-89-88.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:10 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:14 < kanzure> "well what we want to do is build a CERN for the brain" 12:15 < kanzure> "we have a 600 page roadmap" argh where is this 12:15 < kanzure> _archels: gimme the document 12:17 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:25 < delinquentme> is there an android app that will let me download youtub videos and play locally ? 12:26 < kanzure> use youtube-dl with python4android or something, who cares 12:26 < kanzure> https://github.com/hbp-brain-charting/public 12:36 -!- dcary [46b171ae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.177.113.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:43 < kanzure> https://www.humanbrainproject.eu/participate/competitive-calls-programme 12:48 -!- ielo [~ielo@134.219.227.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:59 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:00 < kanzure> ""Double you tee eff?" you say, and start hunting for the problem. You discover that one day, some idiot decided that since another idiot decided that 1/0 should equal infinity, they could just use that as a shorthand for "Infinity" when simplifying their code. Then a non-idiot rightly decided that this was idiotic, which is what the original idiot should have decided, but since he didn't, the non-idiot decided to be a dick and make this a ... 13:00 < kanzure> ... failing error in his new compiler. Then he decided he wasn't going to tell anyone that this was an error, because he's a dick, and now all your snowflakes are urine and you can't even find the cat." 13:00 < kanzure> "You are an expert in all these technologies, and that's a good thing, because that expertise let you spend only six hours figuring out what went wrong, as opposed to losing your job. You now have one extra little fact to tuck away in the millions of little facts you have to memorize because so many of the programs you depend on are written by dicks and idiots." 13:06 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:33 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:34 < entelechios> hahaha kanzure i had read that one 13:34 < entelechios> funny stuff 13:35 < delinquentme> information gained from clinical trials ... is it published anywhere? 13:41 < superkuh> http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/help/how-find/find-study-results might help. 13:43 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@cpe-24-92-63-104.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:48 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@cpe-24-92-63-104.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:48 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.139.76] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:00 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-78-149-142-100.as13285.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:01 -!- HashNuke [uid12117@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eyvenhxyqyyyhpps] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:13 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@192.55.54.38] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:20 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:26 -!- marciogm [~marciogm@186-210-229-026.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:51 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@ti0088a400-1897.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:24 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@86-208-15.connect.netcom.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:32 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-78-149-142-100.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:48 -!- cpopell`sleep is now known as cpopell`reading 15:54 -!- marciogm [~marciogm@186-210-229-026.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:59 < kanzure> .title http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1439-0531.2009.01426.x/abstract 15:59 < yoleaux> Ultrasound as a Mechanical Method for Male Dog Contraception 15:59 < kanzure> perhaps not the greatest idea of all time? 16:01 -!- dlfk [~dlfk@chem-179-154.chem.tamu.edu] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 16:01 < kanzure> oh, it is reversible in monkeys 16:01 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1477-7827-10-81.pdf 16:01 < paperbot> TypeError: unicode() argument 2 must be string, not None (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/models.py", line 825, in text) 16:01 < kanzure> wut 16:03 < juri_> uh oh. i was invoked? 16:03 -!- dlfk [~dlfk@chem-179-154.chem.tamu.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:04 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.39 - www.nbs-irc.net -] 16:07 -!- dlfk [~dlfk@chem-179-154.chem.tamu.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 16:16 -!- Adifex|zzz is now known as Adifex 16:21 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@192.55.54.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:23 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:26 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:37 -!- marciogm [~marciogm@186-210-229-026.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:38 < xentrac> yay ultrasound temporary castration! 16:40 < kanzure> the ~30 minute treatments do not sound useful 16:40 < xentrac> maybe you could shrink your testicles during your daily commute 16:40 < kanzure> do you actually commute anywhere? 16:40 < xentrac> yeah 16:40 < kanzure> gasp 16:40 < xentrac> tomorrow no though 16:40 < kanzure> see, i thought you were in brazil to escape things like that 16:43 < xentrac> no, if I were in Brazil it would be to see the woman who keeps emailing me things like "Mas foi bem levinha, quase um beijinho na sua nuca (back of your neck?), uma carícia delicada..." despite never having met me 16:43 < kanzure> sounds like an okay reason to go? 16:44 < xentrac> have some stuff to finish up here first, so instead I think she'll probably visit me here first 16:46 < xentrac> often I commute by bike 16:47 < xentrac> how do you get the exercise you need? 16:47 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.139.76] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:48 -!- kardan [~kardan@199.254.238.217] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:49 < kanzure> xentrac: electrical stimulation of muscle tissue 16:49 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-53-64-36.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:49 < kanzure> (many exercises have a direct physiological consequence that can be invoked by other means) 16:49 < kanzure> s/consequence/method 16:51 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-53-64-36.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Client Quit] 16:51 < kanzure> hrmm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malariotherapy#Malariotherapy 16:51 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:51 -!- kyknos [~kyknos@89.233.130.143] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:52 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53 < xentrac> kanzure: hmm, I thought that didn't work 16:53 < kanzure> to be honest i haven't investigated completely, but i would be surprised if there's no workable method 16:54 < kanzure> and if there is no workable method, then i wonder if electroporation or plasmid therapies would be able to introduce a viable method of exercise (or even muscle hypertrophy etc) without the use of large massy equipment or physical exertion. 16:55 < kanzure> e.g., maybe introduce a pathway for cell membrane signaling bound to something that responds to some light frequency etc 16:56 < kanzure> of course, for muscle hypertrophy, there's chemical interventions involving protein, hormones, steroids, mRNA inhibition, mRNA expression, etc.. 17:02 -!- kyknos__ [~kyknos@89.233.130.143] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:02 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.139.76] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:02 < xentrac> well, what results are you seeing? 17:04 < kanzure> i am not actually stimulating muscle, i was hoping that you would let me interpret "how do you get the exercise you need?" in the general sense 17:05 < kanzure> (in the absence of commuting by bikes) 17:05 -!- kyknos [~kyknos@89.233.130.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:08 < xentrac> heh 17:08 < kanzure> "instrument engineer's handbook" (25 MB) http://lib.freescienceengineering.org/view.php?id=1155193 17:08 < xentrac> well, I really meant in your case specifically ;) 17:12 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:13 -!- marciogm [~marciogm@186-210-229-026.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:18 < kanzure> xentrac: also you may find this interesting, http://diyhpl.us/wiki/myostatin/yashgaroth-proposal/ 17:18 < kanzure> xentrac: and here's a random pile of words, http://diyhpl.us/wiki/myostatin/notes/ 17:29 < xentrac> while building muscle is potentially useful, it's not the only reason for exercising 17:29 < xentrac> exercising also helps reduce anxiety and inflammation, for example 17:30 < kanzure> there are tons of ways to reduce inflammation, and i am not sure that anxiety is all negative 17:31 < xentrac> presumably if you're depending on adderall to keep you focused, your level of anxiety is superoptimal 17:31 < xentrac> maybe that's not presumable 17:31 < xentrac> is it presumable? 17:31 < kanzure> wait, what? my level of anxiety on or off the drug? 17:32 < xentrac> does the drug affect your anxiety noticeably? 17:32 < kanzure> no, i have this weird form of anxiety that i seem to have on/off control over 17:32 < kanzure> which persists when medicated and unmedicated with adderall 17:32 -!- HashNuke [uid12117@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eyvenhxyqyyyhpps] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:32 < xentrac> what's on/off control? you can turn it on and off at will? 17:33 < kanzure> well, i should limit this to my cognitive phenomonology of whatever i know anxiety to be, rather than non-cognitive anxiety that i would, by definition, not really have access or awareness of 17:34 < xentrac> I find that I am aware of many non-cognitive aspects of my experience 17:34 < kanzure> i am fascinated by the idea of increasing anxiety in general 17:35 < kanzure> most research is about making it go down, but lots of interesting brain things happen with increased anxiety, either as a cause or just a correlation 17:35 < xentrac> so my experience with stimulants is that they don't reduce or increase anxiety so much as make it less distracting 17:35 < xentrac> except caffeine of course 17:37 < xentrac> but exercise does reduce anxiety, and that improves my life 17:42 < xentrac> probably also lengthens it 17:42 < kanzure> does protomold do one-offs? 17:42 < kanzure> http://www.protolabs.com/protomold 17:42 < kanzure> $1495/mold.. hrm. 17:44 < gradstudentbot> Who has the latest version of the paper? 17:50 -!- cpopell`reading is now known as cpopell`gym 17:56 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:58 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:06 < kanzure> in violation of the no reddit rule: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/24kbc0/im_patrick_byrne_a_profreedom_supporter_of/ 18:19 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:21 < xentrac> so btw 18:21 < kanzure> sup 18:21 < xentrac> this dude wrote up a technology tree in book form: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/24jndm/i_am_the_author_of_the_knowledge_how_to_rebuild/?limit=500 18:21 < xentrac> I haven't read the book yet but if you do I'm really interested to hear more 18:21 < xentrac> like, is it good? 18:21 < kanzure> did you look at the book or are you just wasting my time 18:21 < kanzure> sigh 18:22 < kanzure> how is that any different from any other book that has similar content, and why aren't those books called a "technology tree in book form"? that's what i'm particulary curious about here. 18:22 < xentrac> I've read a couple of chapters, and they're fantastic 18:23 < xentrac> I haven't ever seen a similar book before 18:23 < kanzure> what makes it a tree? 18:24 < xentrac> he makes a great effort to make the dependencies between the different technologies explicit, not to depend on things that aren't in the book, and to topologically sort them 18:24 < xentrac> although he compromises that by breaking it into chapters 18:24 < kanzure> what is a topological sort? i did look at the book btw 18:24 < xentrac> .wik topological sort 18:24 < yoleaux> "In computer science, a topological sort (sometimes abbreviated topsort or toposort) or topological ordering of a directed graph is a linear ordering of its vertices such that for every directed edge uv from vertex u to vertex v, u comes before v in the ordering. For instance, the vertices of the graph may represent tasks to be performed, …" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topological_sort 18:27 < kanzure> for all the time i spent in a graph theory lab you'd think that i'd recognize that you were referring to an actual topological sort 18:28 < xentrac> yeah, I was surprised by the question, but I didn't want to be the guy who's like "You don't know THAT?!" 18:28 < xentrac> because those guys are fucking annoying 18:29 < kanzure> i'm still skeptical of anything that is marketed in the format of a book 18:29 < kanzure> if he was truly trying to make an actually useful technology tree, why would it require advertizing (like on a shit hole like reddit), or why would it have to even be a book instead of just data i download. argh. 18:31 < xentrac> yeah, I'm not thrilled by the book format either 18:31 < xentrac> but on the other hand, he's completed the book, while I haven't completed a non-book equivalent, so maybe the institutions of book publishing companies were helpful to him 18:33 < kanzure> the one redeeming quality that i might be interested in would be something like, evidence of him applying these technologies or methods based only on the instructions in the book, to bootstrap a machine shop or other equipment 18:33 < kanzure> and that might be forgivable in a narrative form 18:34 < xentrac> he says he's tried a bunch of them 18:34 < kanzure> individually, or in succession using only those things he described 18:34 < xentrac> I think individually 18:35 < xentrac> for example, he shot the author photo on the cover with a photographic emulsion he made himself from somewhat raw materials 18:35 < kanzure> "individually" confers possible cheats, or cheats that he could have been unaware of, right? 18:36 < xentrac> sure, but I really think you should be asking him these questions, on a shit hole like reddit, not me 18:36 < kanzure> if his concept of technological bootstrapping requires me to ask him questions or to communicate with him over reddit, it's not for me 18:37 < xentrac> haha 18:38 < kanzure> i'm only critical because i care 18:40 < xentrac> but you're not being critical; you're withholding your criticism because you don't like reddit 18:40 < kanzure> why should i tell him my criticism? 18:40 < xentrac> because yo ucare 18:40 < kanzure> it's already apparent that his understanding of his work and mine are very different based on the choices he made 18:41 < kanzure> and i would have to convince him that a book isn't the ideal format for representing civilizational technology in a repeatable way 18:41 < kanzure> and then also convince him that he can make something better 18:42 < kanzure> which i'm not sure about; i have no idea who he is or why i should invest that effort into him 18:42 < xentrac> well, his work seems to be the best effort we have so far 18:42 < xentrac> no? 18:42 < kanzure> were you the one who mentioned not looking at the gingery books? 18:42 < kanzure> *having not yet looked 18:42 < kanzure> maybe wrong person 18:43 < xentrac> I have looked at them, and I think they are excellent and indeed unparalleled in their niche 18:43 < xentrac> although I no longer have them :( 18:43 < xentrac> but they are in a very narrow niche 18:44 < kanzure> so, as a metric of evaluating best effort, i would place something like the debian package repositories way way way higher than both of those works 18:44 < kanzure> my wording is no good there 18:44 < xentrac> the debian package repositories are indeed much higher quality 18:44 < xentrac> but their niche is even more narrow than Gingery's series 18:45 < kanzure> they are also on the same dimension as the type of technology you and i have in mind 18:45 < kanzure> why is software narrow? 18:45 < xentrac> because computers are still narrow 18:45 < xentrac> Debian actually is even narrower than software 18:45 < xentrac> Debian is basically "software written in C for Unix" 18:46 < xentrac> most popular Java, Ruby, and C# libraries aren't in there 18:46 < kanzure> i often say debian when i mean to refer its canonical implementation of not-completely-awful package management 18:46 < xentrac> RubyGems is actually larger than Debian at this point 18:46 < kanzure> xpkg (or whatever?) doesn't seem to be a good one yet (there was some sort of generic packaging system that was supposed to be platform agnostic? i dunno) 18:47 < kanzure> rubygems being larger doesn't matter; you can trivially imagine a gem2deb tool that i don't care about. fpm can even do that, i bet. 18:47 < kanzure> and besides, cpan should be larger than rubyforge 18:47 < gradstudentbot> Should have gone to med school. 18:47 < xentrac> rubyforge? who the fuck uses rubyforge? :) 18:48 < kanzure> gemfury? 18:48 < kanzure> it's been like, a month since i've done anything with ruby 18:48 < xentrac> .g gemfury 18:48 < yoleaux> https://gemfury.com/ 18:48 < xentrac> .wik gemfuy 18:48 < kanzure> "RubyForge will be shutting down on May 15 2014." 18:48 < yoleaux> xentrac: Sorry, I couldn't find article. 18:48 < xentrac> .wik gemfury 18:48 < yoleaux> xentrac: Sorry, I couldn't find article. 18:48 < xentrac> oh, apparently the RubyForge maintainers agree with me 18:48 < kanzure> gemfury is just a private-language-specific-package-repositories-as-a-service thing 18:48 < xentrac> :'( 18:49 < xentrac> but so far a robot that could produce photographic emulsions on demand from raw materials is pretty far from available 18:49 < kanzure> i'm not sure that's the right solution 18:50 < xentrac> in fact it's not even clear what kind of computer system would significantly ease or simplify the process for photographic emulsion making that he describes in the book 18:50 < kanzure> in many cases you can assume there is a human present, but then you have to figure out how to write instructions for both robo-compatible and human-compatible stuff to make packages happen 18:50 < xentrac> well, other than maybe something to display a text file that has the text of his book chapter in it 18:51 < kanzure> "your package download is only complete once your ordered parts arrive, or if you choose to make the parts yourself, once they are made and placed in the space designated for those parts intake" 18:51 < kanzure> there was a format i was experimenting with that was able to use human kinematics as a rough estimate for the range of motions that i can assume a human effector to provide 18:51 < kanzure> realistically, no matter what, i am not going to be able to convince many hardware package maintainers not to write large amounts of plaintext documentation :( 18:52 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:52 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:53 < kanzure> debian packages would not be useful if i had to type in the source code to every single one every time i wanted to run the programs, or something 18:53 < kanzure> as the size of the repository scales, my ability to do things would be limited by my linear rate of text entry 18:54 < kanzure> (i have skipped over the problem of figuring out "order vs. build" and the problem of "what thing is roughly equivalent and could be used instead of the exact product that could be ordered from this very specific supplier") 18:56 <@heath> https://angel.co/nashville 18:56 <@heath> #2 nashville in nashville 18:56 <@heath> #2 in nashville :P 18:56 <@heath> ^ beer induced commenting 18:56 <@heath> @hacknashville 18:56 < kanzure> also there's a curious concept of homomorphism where if there is some set of manual actions that can produce a product, that therefore there should always be a set of automation tools that you could setup to produce the thing automatically; but automatic conversion of instructions or plans into the automatic format is a curious problem that i haven't seen approached yet. there are some weird products from dassault that do related things but i ... 18:56 <@heath> working on an ipython for node.js 18:56 < kanzure> ... haven't played with them.. 18:57 < kanzure> pls skip the ipython readline bugs 18:57 < kanzure> oh actually, i wonder if i could just use cython/ctypes to bind to an actually usable version of readline and distribute that with ipython, instead of hoping ipython accepts my bugfix 19:03 < kanzure> i lied, apparently i did ruby things yesterday 19:05 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@66-161-138-110.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:14 < xentrac> kanzure: there was a time when many people used computers by typing in the source code to every single program every time they wanted to run the programs 19:14 < xentrac> that was clearly less useful 19:14 < xentrac> but it was still a great deal easier than writing the programs from scratch 19:17 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, it should take me about 2 days. 19:19 < kanzure> hrm "An alphabeticized list of almost 50,000 scientists" http://www.scientistsdb.com/index.php?title=Category:Scientist 19:20 < kanzure> oh it is a dump from wikipedia? 19:21 < kanzure> that's boring 19:22 < kanzure> http://www.chemconnector.com/2011/11/17/why-are-pornstars-more-notable-than-scientists-on-wikipedia/ 19:33 < kanzure> http://the-knowledge.org/en-gb/further-reading-by-chapter/ 19:33 < xentrac> yeah 19:33 < xentrac> here's my question for him: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/24jndm/i_am_the_author_of_the_knowledge_how_to_rebuild/ch892wh 19:36 < xentrac> also related is http://the-knowledge.org/en-gb/2014/03/similar-projects/ 19:38 < kanzure> i am not convinced ("yours is the first serious attempt I've seen to create a practical technology tree for real life.") 19:38 < dingo> 01:56 < kanzure> pls skip the ipython readline bugs │ 19:38 < dingo> i have the ear of an ipython dev 19:38 < dingo> i maintain another project 19:38 < dingo> readline is probobly using gnu/readline, you know 19:38 < dingo> so its not really in their control, likely 19:38 < dingo> i know -- i'd like readline to be provided by a telnet server 19:38 < dingo> but its not possible without allocating a pty, since gnu/readline wants a terminal like that 19:38 < kanzure> xentrac: also, could you elaborate on what it was in fire upon the deep? i don't remember that from the book. 19:39 < dingo> that is i mean, i maintain a project together with one of the ipython devs, i could get your bugfix attention i'm sure 19:39 < kanzure> dingo: https://github.com/ipython/ipython/pull/2895 19:39 -!- helleshin [~talinck@66-161-138-110.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:39 < xentrac> see also http://the-knowledge.org/en-gb/bibliography/ 19:40 < dingo> yup takluyver :-) 19:40 < kanzure> xentrac: if he just says "i hate my readers, and therefore i will not release my content as a wiki", you are a little bit screwed 19:43 < dingo> never knew ^G cancelled ^R... must be why lynx choses ^G to cancel retrieving web pages 19:43 < xentrac> kanzure: oh, there were people who were responsible for designing technology trees to take back to primitive civilizations. I don't remember what they were called. surely their profession was part of astrobiology 19:43 < xentrac> dingo: ^G is Emacs's quit command 19:43 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@86-208-15.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:44 < kanzure> dingo: i think i might have dropped a production db once with a faulty ^R in ipython. yes i should use ^G. 19:44 < dingo> no the bug sounds serious, i replicate it easily, very bad !! 19:44 < kanzure> much bad, such bobby tables, etc 19:45 < dingo> i think the "You should use...." is what got this thing dropped, 19:45 < kanzure> xentrac: that's curious, why wouldn't they just dump the technology itself on the other people? 19:45 < kanzure> i predict his publisher will make it incentive-incompatible for him to release a wiki with his content 19:46 < xentrac> kanzure: I don't remember 19:46 < xentrac> I'm sure we can work something out 19:46 < kanzure> i am uncomfortable with how much stuff is just continuously recycled from vinge 19:47 < kanzure> (in terms of the number of authors that are bothering to try) 19:47 < xentrac> heh 19:49 < kanzure> orion's arm feels a little rusty around the edges in terms of, uh, "conceptual integrity" 19:57 < kanzure> dingo: yeah, i'm over it. ^G plus, if i really wanted, i should just bundle a different binding to readline. 20:01 -!- sapiosexual_ [~sapiosexu@d75-156-89-88.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:02 < dingo> i can tell, its a year old -- i e-mailed him and offered my help to close it out, seems my mutt doesn't save my sent's, but i said "It seems the only reason kanzure's patch wasn't accepted was 1.) the comment was too long-winded, and 2.) there should be no suggestion to use ^g, etc." 20:03 < kanzure> in #ipython a while back they told me they have known about the bug for 10 years? something like that 20:03 < dingo> if thats all that needs to be changed, no problem -- i'm very sure he has tests for ipython using pexpect, we maintain pexpect together, so theres no reason I can't help write tests for it, either 20:03 < kanzure> you maintain a variant of expect 20:03 < kanzure> hah 20:03 < dingo> :-) with takluyver, yes 20:03 < dingo> we made it python3 and unicode compatible 20:04 < dingo> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pexpect 20:04 -!- sapiosexual [~sapiosexu@d75-156-89-88.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:04 < dingo> yeah ... i get to recieve e-mails from sysadmins trying to automate ssh logins through pexpect ... sigh 20:05 < kanzure> you know, the fda released a warning saying that exact type of email is not good for your health 20:05 < dingo> tcl/expect was one of the first programming i did on linux when i was young 20:05 < dingo> i automated started nethack as a wizard until he started with a ring of gain strength and a magic marker, if i recall 20:05 < kanzure> congrats you are now the go-to person i have for tcl problems 20:06 < kanzure> (brlcad has a lot of tcl stuff that i run into every once in a while) 20:06 < dingo> no way , no sir.. i give up on tcl, fuuuuuck tcl 20:06 < dingo> it was an early python as far as a language you could embed for a C program... it had its merits, but its soooo bad 20:06 < kanzure> .wik BRLCAD 20:06 < yoleaux> "BRL-CAD is a constructive solid geometry (CSG) solid modeling computer-aided design (CAD) system. It includes an interactive geometry editor, ray tracing support for graphics rendering and geometric analysis, computer network distributed framebuffer support, scripting, image-processing and signal-processing tools." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brlcad 20:06 < dingo> i noticed in the automotive engineering group at gm, they had hundreds of various tcl scripts 20:07 < kanzure> are they a dassault shop? 20:07 < dingo> yes 20:07 < kanzure> did you get to use dassault things? 20:08 < kanzure> i put in some time reverse engineering the solidworks file format a bit 20:08 < dingo> i wrote software (in python) for .. Abaqus/CAE 20:08 < dingo> http://www.3ds.com/products-services/simulia/portfolio/abaqus/overview/ 20:09 < kanzure> oh this is there "we're totally not ansys" product? 20:09 < dingo> http://jeffquast.com/ex4.jpg http://jeffquast.com/ex3.jpg http://jeffquast.com/ex2.jpg 20:09 < kanzure> *their 20:10 < dingo> it was a financial thing 20:10 < xentrac> kanzure: I'll be happy to try to help you with Tcl 20:10 < xentrac> I like Tcl 20:10 < kanzure> xentrac: brlcad itself shouldn't have a dependency on tcl/tcl.h for its core solid geometry libraries 20:10 < dingo> the "bolt analysis" software i wrote replaced something that used to cost them a quarter-million/year in licensing with something that cost only about 40K/yr (abaqus) with the ~30K i made writing it 20:10 < kanzure> xentrac: this often gets in the way of https://github.com/kanzure/python-brlcad 20:11 < xentrac> kanzure: what does it use tcl.h for? 20:11 < kanzure> dingo: heh, fenn wrote a thread analysis thing. i am telling you, you are dopplegangers in weird ways. 20:11 < dingo> abaqus/cae doesn't do much on its own, either in pre or post-processing, its the ability to script your own thing in python that makes it pay out 20:11 < kanzure> xentrac: a lot of fundamental types :( 20:11 < xentrac> that's interesting and surprising 20:11 < dingo> its not like i wanted to... it was a rare opportunity to write python in 2003 and get paid for it 20:11 < xentrac> because BRL-CAD is a lot older than Tcl 20:11 < xentrac> like ten years older 20:11 < dingo> python was not very cool in 2003 20:12 < dingo> (tcl still was) 20:12 < xentrac> but it seems like a good idea to not reinvent, say, hash tables 20:12 < kanzure> xentrac: overall, brlcad source code is not /that/ bad, and it's at least 100 times better than the quality of the source code behind opencascade 20:12 < xentrac> kanzure: I found BRL-CAD hard to use as a user though 20:12 < kanzure> yes, i think their tcl interface is stupid 20:12 < kanzure> really i just want a libgeometrycrap 20:12 < kanzure> and therefore i wrote the python bindings 20:13 < xentrac> what kind of fundamental types? 20:13 < xentrac> dingo: I think Python was pretty cool in 2003 and Tcl wasn't ;) 20:14 < kanzure> hmph as usual i don't have specifics. all i remember was that i was getting errors because of hte tcl dependency, and presumably there's some way for me to look at the derivative types.. 20:14 < xentrac> if you comment out the #include it will give you a bunch of compile errors 20:14 < kanzure> well, i wasn't actually compiling it =) 20:14 < xentrac> dingo: but maybe you were stuck in a place that was a bit behind the times? 20:14 < kanzure> python-brlcad uses ctypesgen which parses the header files and then dumps out either (1) a python file of ctypes bindings, or (2) a json file that can be used to generate #1 (or for other languages) 20:14 < xentrac> I was writing SME OLAP tools in Python in 2003 20:15 < kanzure> i don't think that ctypesgen is using pygccxml under the hood (it's code i inherited) https://github.com/kanzure/ctypesgen 20:16 < dingo> yes xentrac, i was near detroit michigan, far from california at the time 20:17 < xentrac> oh yeah, that sucks 20:17 < xentrac> I was in Dayton in 2000, I understand 20:19 < kanzure> also presumably, if they didn't require the tcl header they wouldn't put it in almost all of the brlcad core libraries 20:20 < kanzure> you do have me worried about the brlcad/tcl timelines though 20:20 < xentrac> maybe they rebuilt brlcad almost from scratch in the 90s? 20:21 < kanzure> they have a bunch of support for really old 80s systems still in production 20:21 < kanzure> so it would have had to be a full rewrite 20:22 < xentrac> ? 20:22 < xentrac> I don't understand 20:22 < xentrac> who has a bunch of support for 80s systems? 20:22 < kanzure> maintaining support for already-known system quirks is really more difficult than just starting from scratch 20:22 < kanzure> brlcad does 20:22 < kanzure> (to this day) 20:22 < xentrac> is it the support or the systems that are still in production? 20:22 < kanzure> perhaps both 20:22 < kanzure> military has some old crap laying around 20:23 < xentrac> I also don't understand what you're saying about a full rewrite 20:23 < xentrac> are you saying that if they had done a full rewrite, they would have dropped support for 80s systems? 20:23 < xentrac> Or that the fact that they have support for 80s systems is evidence for a full rewrite, as opposed to a partial one? 20:24 < kanzure> i'm suggesting it increases the cost of a rewrite and it decreases the likelihood that they would have wanted to do it 20:24 < xentrac> none of my plausible interpretations make any sense 20:24 < xentrac> okay, but, they started getting their core data types from Tcl 20:25 < kanzure> i wonder if their svn history goes back far enough to see the introduction of tcl into their source code 20:33 -!- HEx2 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:37 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:38 -!- cpopell`gym is now known as cpopell`relaxing 20:42 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:45 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:52 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:53 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:01 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:03 < xentrac> if you really want to see how he's marketing his book, check out http://the-knowledge.org/en-gb/ 21:03 < xentrac> in particular http://the-knowledge.org/en-gb/category/in-the-news/ 21:10 < kanzure> what am i supposed to extract from that page other than "he might know stu brand" (stew?) and "typical magazines/news outlets"? 21:11 < kanzure> also, what happened to that last guy, who was making a toaster oven from scratch? 21:12 < kanzure> hrm i can't even remember if he was pimping a book 21:13 < xentrac> he was just pimping the toaster 21:13 < xentrac> and it was a popup toaster, not a toaster oven 21:13 < kanzure> wait, was that you 21:13 < xentrac> no 21:14 < kanzure> art motivations? 21:14 < kanzure> i mean, for-the-sake-of-art 21:14 < xentrac> oh, I guess he did end up writing a book, too 21:14 < xentrac> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Toaster-Project-Thomas-Thwaites/dp/1568989970 21:15 -!- strages_ [sid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-odbzloiohhzmlywc] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:16 < xentrac> it's linked from http://the-knowledge.org/en-gb/further-reading-by-chapter/ 21:16 < kanzure> how depressing 21:17 < xentrac> heh, why? 21:18 < kanzure> i'm not convinced that a book is an adequate or relevant format for those shared goals, see previous ranting today 21:18 < xentrac> haha 21:18 < kanzure> and that the toaster guy also ended up doing a book too, ugh 21:18 < xentrac> I like books 21:18 < kanzure> what about just fucking blog posts 21:18 < kanzure> or you know, a pdf file on a web page or something 21:18 < cluckj> I like toasters 21:18 < xentrac> me too 21:18 < xentrac> it seems like you could probably make almost all of a toaster from a single blend of stainless steel 21:19 < xentrac> plus a little bit of insulation 21:19 < kanzure> what would the heating element entail? 21:19 < xentrac> stainless steel 21:19 < kanzure> yes but how would you heat the stainless steel? 21:20 < xentrac> by running electricity through it 21:20 < kanzure> what electricity 21:20 < kanzure> how did this happen 21:20 < xentrac> listen, the objective is to make an electric toaster 21:20 < kanzure> what would the heating element entail?sumptions? 21:20 < kanzure> wow irc fail 21:20 < xentrac> not an industrial civilization to plug it into 21:20 < kanzure> was that one of his original assumptions? 21:20 < xentrac> yes 21:20 < kanzure> okay. retracted. 21:20 < xentrac> came from HHGTTG 21:20 < cluckj> lol what 21:21 < xentrac> "Left to his own devices he couldn't build a toaster. He could just about make a sandwich and that was it." 21:21 < xentrac> http://www.ted.com/talks/thomas_thwaites_how_i_built_a_toaster_from_scratch is the TED talk 21:22 < kanzure> a video is even worse than a book! hah 21:22 < xentrac> haha, worse and worse! 21:22 < kanzure> does ted.com do transcripts yet? 21:23 < xentrac> yes, there's a link on that page to a transcript in 29 langauges 21:23 < xentrac> languages 21:23 < xentrac> just the usual ones 21:23 < kanzure> huh. that is tolerable. looking. 21:23 < kanzure> "interactive transcript" interactive? 21:24 < xentrac> it's not interacting with me 21:24 < cluckj> yeah you read it and it tells you things 21:24 < cluckj> high tech new fancypants 21:24 < kanzure> "I went and bought the cheapest toaster I could find, took it home and was kind of dismayed to discover that, inside this object, which I'd bought for just 3.49 pounds, there were 400 different bits made out of a hundred-plus different materials" 21:24 < kanzure> maybe he just picked a stupid toaster 21:24 < xentrac> well no 21:24 < xentrac> he picked a toaster that was optimized for being produced cheaply by an industrial civilization 21:25 < xentrac> not by an individual artisan 21:25 < kanzure> hm "And also, I thought that there would be synthetic polymers, plastics, embedded in the rock." 21:26 < cluckj> http://www.rei.com/product/876276/?cm_mmc=cse_PLA-_-pla-_-product-_-8762760001&outbound-stainless-steel-camp-toaster-2012-closeout,-stainless&preferredSku=8762760001&mr:trackingCode=2089BE54-87C2-E311-90E9-BC305BF82162&mr:referralID=NA&mr:device=c&mr:adType=pla&mr:ad=28464597400&mr:keyword=&mr:match=&mr:filter=49482256000&msid=Cjh52tWO_dc|pcrid|28464597400| 21:26 < cluckj> a cheap ass toaster 21:26 < kanzure> "So the wires were uninsulated. So there was 240 volts going through these homemade copper wires, homemade plug. And for about five seconds, the toaster toasted, but then, unfortunately, the element kind of melted itself. But I considered it a partial success, to be honest." 21:26 < xentrac> it probably has quite a few materials in it 21:26 < cluckj> very little industrial civ necessary....... 21:26 < kanzure> oh well, everyone knows the only true way to cook toast is to use a fresnel lens? 21:26 < cluckj> yeah real men use the SUN 21:27 < kanzure> reading the transcript was way more tolerable 21:27 < kanzure> thanks 21:27 < xentrac> sure :) 21:27 < xentrac> the sun thing sounds kind of unstable 21:27 < kanzure> well so does his toaster :) 21:27 < cluckj> hah 21:27 < xentrac> heh 21:27 < xentrac> yes 21:28 < xentrac> I'm surprised he smelted his iron using microwaves 21:32 < xentrac> but I really think you could do with a stainless steel plug (with some insulation), a stainless steel cable, a stainless steel case, and some thinner stainless steel wire for the heaitng element 21:32 < xentrac> he ended up using nickel for the heating element I think 21:32 < xentrac> which didn't actually work 21:35 -!- strages__ [sid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-icgddsfdrhdsbcwy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:37 < xentrac> oh, now the Brazilian is telling me she's falling in love with a German in San Francisco 21:37 < xentrac> that's wonderful :) 21:50 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9Gt_oRdd5c 21:50 < yoleaux> Anderson Ta - AMRI 2013 Final Presentations 21:50 < kanzure> "Related to Anderson Ta’s exciting digital light projection (DLP) photolithography last year, Fellows will investigate and program organic light emitting diode (OLED) screens as a light source for 3D photolithographic printing of living tissues. Chemical functionalization of glass surfaces will also be investigated to passivate the screen surface and aid in detachment and 3D printing from the light source surface." 21:51 < kanzure> https://github.com/sjkelly/AMRI-Rice-201308-sjkelly 21:51 < kanzure> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4wo9cRL3Xg 21:51 < kanzure> "A continuation of Steve Kelly's inkshield augmentation of RepRap motherboards to print living bacteria, Fellows will investigate fluid mechanics, python scripting, and multicolor printing to create interacting bacterial colonies on top of and within agar gels. Fellows will also learn how to insert genes of interest into bacterial colonies for protein production." 21:53 < kanzure> "Fellows will augment and refine the open SLS design pioneered by Andreas Bastian last year. SLS machines typically cost $50k or more, we built ours for under $15k. This year we will focus on powder manufacturing and powder handling, as well as characterization of SLS parts via scanning electron microscopy (SEM) and mechanical testing." 21:53 < kanzure> http://reprap.org/wiki/OpenSLS 21:53 < kanzure> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE5KRSlO9rA 21:54 < kanzure> https://github.com/andreasbastian/opensls 21:54 < kanzure> http://andreasbastian.com/opensls 21:54 < kanzure> ugh .sldprt files in git. i guess it's at least something.. 21:55 < kanzure> "In January, I started a residency at Autodesk, in their phenomenal Pier 9 facility. I am continuing my research into low cost SLS technology there and am focusing specifically on laser sintering steel. I will be sharing my designs soon." i wonder if autodesk is actually going to let that happen (the sharing part) 21:58 < kanzure> hrm, his blog posts don't mention what spot size he was aiming for or was able to get 21:58 < kanzure> i suppose you can just throw more optics at the problem 21:59 < kanzure> in which case, $15k is an interesting bargain that i might be willing to pay for 22:00 < kanzure> i bet the pricing could be pushed down some more with economies of scale 22:02 -!- nmz787_i [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-yapyeujusojflwmp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:03 < xentrac> can I project my laptop monitor onto a light-sensitive surface to do LCD photolithography? 22:04 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/Versatile%20stepper%20based%20maskless%20microlithography%20using%20a%20liquid%20crystal%20display%20(LCD)%20for%20direct%20write%20of%20binary%20and%20multilevel%20microstructures%20-%202007%20-%20awesome.pdf 22:04 < kanzure> dunno about your laptop screen itself, or whether you mean attached/detached/scavenged 22:05 < kanzure> the scavengers initiative 22:05 < kanzure> oh that's the right spelling. that joke is much less funny and not a joke now. 22:20 -!- kardan [~kardan@199.254.238.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:32 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:32 -!- kardan [~kardan@199.254.238.234] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:35 < xentrac> well, it could potentially be a laptop I'm not using for other things 22:55 -!- nmz787_i [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-yapyeujusojflwmp] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:30 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Sat May 03 00:00:58 2014