--- Log opened Sat May 03 00:00:58 2014 00:07 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:13 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:27 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:33 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:34 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:46 < nmz787> anyone know what panos zavos charges for his fertility/cloning service? 00:47 < nmz787> I wonder if they're doing work on just growing certain organs, rather than whole humans... i.e. brainless I guess... 00:52 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:58 -!- pasky_ [~pasky@nikam.ms.mff.cuni.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:00 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:04 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: @heath, yoleaux, kyknos__, dingo, justanotheruser, sivoais, cpopell`relaxing, strangewarp, Adifex, apex, (+9 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 01:07 -!- Netsplit over, joins: kardan, apex, JayDugger1, yoleaux, sivoais, @_archels, jrayhawk, nmz787, ruphos, dingo 01:10 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:11 -!- kyknos__ [~kyknos@89.233.130.143] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:11 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:11 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-67-176-51-230.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:11 -!- cpopell`relaxing [~cpopell@pool-71-255-241-91.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:11 -!- Adifex [Adifex@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe6e:f4e8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:11 -!- heath [quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:11 -!- ivan` [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:11 -!- smeaaagle [~smeaaagle@2002:6ca6:4fb1::6ca6:4fb1] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:11 -!- ServerMode/##hplusroadmap [+o heath] by asimov.freenode.net 01:12 -!- ivan` [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 01:12 -!- ivan` [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:14 < AshleyWaffle> http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2014/04/experimental-drug-prolongs-life-span-in-mice.html 01:14 < AshleyWaffle> looks like they may have done it 01:14 < AshleyWaffle> anti-aging drug 01:14 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:14 < AshleyWaffle> 4x for mice 01:14 < AshleyWaffle> you know what to do people! :D 01:14 * AshleyWaffle nibbles ParahSailin 01:15 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:18 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@70-36-136-78.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:19 -!- kardan [~kardan@199.254.238.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:20 -!- devrandom [~devrandom@70-36-136-78.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:27 -!- chido [chidori@pasky.or.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:27 -!- chido [chidori@pasky.or.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 01:27 -!- sapiosexual_ [~sapiosexu@d75-156-89-88.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:30 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-234-86-210.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:30 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-81-24-176.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:31 -!- kardan [~kardan@199.254.238.234] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:36 < xentrac> AshleyWaffle: in a mouse model of progeria 01:37 < xentrac> like Leon Botha: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Botha 01:39 < xentrac> sounds very promising, of course, but people who die of progeria don't get a lot of the diseases that actual old people get 01:40 < gradstudentbot> I am completely satisfied with the size of my bench space. 01:41 < xentrac> in particular, senility and cancer 01:41 < cpopell`relaxing> xentrac: trouble sleeping, or up early? 01:42 < xentrac> oh, I just lost track of time, that's all 01:42 < cpopell`relaxing> hahaha 01:42 < cpopell`relaxing> that does tend to happen 01:42 < xentrac> AshleyWaffle: anyway, dying of cancer at 73 is certainly better than dying of a heart attack at 70 in my book 01:43 < xentrac> but if that's all it is... 01:43 < xentrac> cpopell`relaxing: got a positive response from Dartnell: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/24jndm/i_am_the_author_of_the_knowledge_how_to_rebuild/ch892wh 01:44 < cpopell`relaxing> fantastic 01:45 < cpopell`relaxing> sounds like he's interested in collaborating as well 02:04 < fenn> skimming http://topshelfbook.com/the-knowledge-how-to-rebuild-our-world-from-scratch/ 02:06 < fenn> a book format is useful in a disaster where you don't have electricity, computers are broken/nuked/nanobotted/infected/forbidden 02:07 < xentrac> a computer format is useful when you want to print out a reduced-size copy for when the book is forbidden ;) 02:07 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-89-243-37-210.as13285.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:11 -!- kardan [~kardan@199.254.238.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:13 < fenn> "realistically, no matter what, i am not going to be able to convince many hardware package maintainers not to write large amounts of plaintext documentation" this is part of why i have taken it upon myself to create an ontological assimilator 02:14 < xentrac> :) 02:14 < fenn> even plaintext documentation is better than no documentation, but often it's limited by the same laziness that led them to write in plain text anyway 02:15 < fenn> but there's a fair amount of datasheet material out there with good data but in arbitrary pdf formats 02:16 < fenn> xentrac: why even print it out if books are forbidden? 02:16 < xentrac> perhaps you can print that book out before it's forbidden 02:16 < xentrac> and hide it in your shoe 02:17 < fenn> oh hey a kragen-tol linkdump 02:17 < xentrac> not just kragen-tol 02:17 < xentrac> or bury it in a plastic bag a few meters deep 02:17 < xentrac> ideally above the water table 02:17 < fenn> or create a distributed network of self replicating radio transmitters that constantly broadcast the source 02:18 < xentrac> one of the links in there is about that 02:18 < fenn> what was the broadcast thingy called .. hmm. where did i even read that? it was about spectrum allocation 02:18 -!- kardan [~kardan@199.254.238.234] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:18 < xentrac> except for the "self-replicating" part 02:19 < xentrac> but that's both difficult to build and easy to crack down on 02:20 < fenn> i dunno, ever dealt with an "annoy-o-tron"? 02:21 < xentrac> no 02:21 < fenn> its a little electronic critter that chirps randomly at a high pitched tone that makes it hard to locate 02:22 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-89-243-37-210.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:22 < xentrac> you can just burn down the house it's in 02:22 < fenn> oh, simple 02:23 < xentrac> I mean, if your premise is that the person who it belongs to is a witch 02:23 < fenn> i meant something that could be dropped out of airplanes, just a waif of a non-reflective solar panel and a phased array antenna and some flash storage 02:23 < xentrac> a munchkin 02:23 < fenn> not a boat anchor that requires constant tending and religious rituals 02:24 < fenn> fwiw air-dropping propaganda is a well established tradition 02:25 < xentrac> yes. it often results in the death of those caught with it 02:25 < gradstudentbot> Got halfway through figuring out all the cell signalling molecules in psoriasis when the cells died and the data couldn't be replicated, so psoriasis is really hard to cure guys don't get it 02:25 < xentrac> munchkins: http://www.xent.com/FoRK-archive/sept98/0217.html 02:25 < fenn> ok but if you're lining your huts with waterproof propaganda leaflets, at least it's plausible denaiability 02:27 < xentrac> my theory is that a flash drive whose data retention is rated at only 10 years and that is periodically transmitting long-distance signals to keep in touch has worse survival characteristics than a piece of paper 02:27 < fenn> should i skip down to "free decentralized planetary net 02:27 < xentrac> probably 02:28 < xentrac> his grad student self-flagellation is maybe not that interesting 02:28 < fenn> i'd wager a widely scattered library of munchkins has a better survival chance than the library of alexandria did 02:29 < xentrac> yes, but that's because the scrolls in Alexandria were almost unique 02:29 < xentrac> in some cases they were the only copy; in many cases they were one of only two copies 02:30 < xentrac> a widely scattered library of microfilm is probably more survivable than a widely scattered library of munchkins 02:30 < fenn> why? 02:31 < xentrac> because the munchkins are emitting signals that make them findable, while the paper is not 02:31 < xentrac> and because the munchkins can only survive decades of quiescence at best, more likely years, while the paper can survive millennia 02:32 < fenn> okay you could randomly allocate some percentage of munchkins to be silent 02:32 < fenn> i agree flash wasn't designed for long term use 02:32 < fenn> data compression makes the situation even worse 02:32 < xentrac> you can compress data on paper too 02:32 < xentrac> it may be worth the tradeoff 02:33 < fenn> but you get redundancy and checksums and digital-ness out of the bargain 02:33 < fenn> i mean real redundancy, not fake book-redundancy 02:33 < xentrac> yes, I've written up the munchkins scenario at http://canonical.org/~kragen/eotf 02:34 < xentrac> I think it might be a good idea 02:34 < fenn> how did i not find this before now? 02:34 < xentrac> you didn't click the links in my comment 02:34 < fenn> i mean way before now 02:34 < xentrac> because it's very unfinished 02:35 < fenn> like, paul fernhout should have linked to the rohit khare munchkins thing at least 02:35 < xentrac> oh, rohit's thing 02:35 < xentrac> I don't know, rohit got distracted by doing a startup 02:35 < xentrac> the mobile people we were hoping would fund it didn't 02:36 < xentrac> this was 2000 02:36 < xentrac> then the Kleiner-installed management pushed Rohit out of the company 02:36 < xentrac> that wasn't very related to munchkins 02:36 < xentrac> more recently he did another startup that was even less related to munchkins and got aquihired by Google 02:37 -!- mosasaur [~mosasaur@178.227.154.9] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:37 < fenn> a silent munchkin could also be programmed to spontaneously reactivate in probability 1/log(years elapsed) (or what have you) 02:37 < xentrac> yeah, if you have batteries 02:37 < fenn> what company was this? 02:37 < xentrac> which one? 02:38 < fenn> "Kleiner-installed management pushed Rohit out of the company" 02:38 < xentrac> KnowNow 02:38 < xentrac> common story though 02:38 < xentrac> you could replace "Rohit" with a hundred names 02:39 < fenn> uh oh, redlinked 02:39 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:39 < xentrac> what is? 02:40 < fenn> gah dillo's copy link address doesn't work right 02:40 < fenn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KnowNow 02:41 < xentrac> no, it wasn't that notable in the end 02:41 < xentrac> the new management was clueless 02:41 < fenn> anyway "rohit khare" sounded familiar for some reason 02:41 < xentrac> yeah, he's better known than KnowNow is 02:42 < xentrac> reportedly the KnowNow VP who phoned me at one point to see if he could get me to sign shareholder consent for some Nth round of financing said I was the most unpleasant person he'd ever talked to 02:42 < xentrac> http://www.crunchbase.com/organization/knownow 02:43 < fenn> i like the idea of microformats, no idea if it's been widely adopted or not at all 02:43 < xentrac> http://venturebeat.com/2006/11/01/knownow-gets-13m-more-for-rss-delivery-a-lot-of-cash/ 02:43 < mosasaur> no wonder you're here xentrac 02:43 < xentrac> it was adopted for a while, but seems to have died back 02:43 < xentrac> mosasaur: ;) 02:44 < fenn> obviously the problem was he was trying to get you to sign something through a telephone 02:45 < xentrac> it was more that I felt that the management of the company was executing a kind of controlled flight into terrain 02:46 < xentrac> I didn't have enough equity that they actually needed my consent 02:46 < xentrac> they just needed a majority 02:47 < xentrac> well, and me not to sue them for breach of fiduciary duty 02:48 < fenn> did you live in menlo park? 304 o'keefe street is pretty close to techshop 02:49 < fenn> maybe that was years later tho 02:49 < mosasaur> xentrac: did you send them a letter like this? http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:qnrq.se/why-i-wont-work-for-google/ 02:49 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:51 * mosasaur remembers having mailed something similar but not quite as good 02:51 < fenn> gee i wish my dad was that cool 02:51 < fenn> "He told me that in the future the world’s power structures would depend much on what I would today categorize as cypherpunks and hackers." 02:52 < gradstudentbot> It's not really significant, but there's definitely a trend. 02:52 < xentrac> no, I just talked to him on the phone 02:53 < xentrac> my "why I won't work for Google" is at http://lists.canonical.org/pipermail/kragen-tol/2011-August/000938.html 02:53 < xentrac> .title 02:53 < yoleaux> Why I do not want to work at Google 02:53 < xentrac> fenn: I don't know where O'Keefe street is 02:55 < mosasaur> wow it seems everyone has one nowadays 02:56 < xentrac> I lived in Menlo Park for a while 02:56 < xentrac> pre-TechShop though 02:57 < fenn> such a weird place. "here is where the transistor was invented" says a little bronze plaque in a mulch bed next to a mexican grocery store parking lot 02:58 < xentrac> that's weird, I thought that was on the East Coast 02:59 < fenn> it's in East Palo Alto 03:00 < xentrac> huh 03:01 < xentrac> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Brattain says he lived in Summit, New Jersey, until he moved to Seattle 03:01 < xentrac> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bardeen lived in Summit too 03:03 < xentrac> I don't think they invented the transistor in East Palo Alto 03:03 < mosasaur> xentrac: Nice letter, though you seem to have left out the part about being flattered by the offer. My letter had that but unfortunately not much else than that I would not fit in with a culture based on academic credential selection, and probably hierarchy based on the same. 03:03 < xentrac> mosasaur: I didn't have an offer 03:04 < fenn> Shockley Transistor on San Antonio Road in Mountain View (this is the sign on wikipedia on streetview) http://goo.gl/maps/3JfZB 03:05 < fenn> "site of first silicon device and research manufacturing company in silicon valley. the research conducted here led to the development of the silicon valley. 1958" 03:05 < xentrac> ahh 03:05 < xentrac> well that makes more sense 03:05 < mosasaur> Then it's even more admirable to preemptively write that, even though it's not clear you did precommit to acting accordingly. 03:05 < xentrac> there's a photo of it on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shockley_Semiconductor_Laboratory 03:06 < xentrac> mosasaur: I didn't think it was admirable or the opposite; I was just saying what I thought 03:06 < mosasaur> xentrac: same here 03:06 < fenn> mosasaur: people i know at google don't seem to have much of a problem with hierarchies based on crededntials.. they mostly complain "fuck i hate C++" or "nobody is ever going to use this software" 03:07 < mosasaur> except i think it was admirable 03:07 < xentrac> heh 03:07 < xentrac> I feel like I'm being complimented on taking a shit 03:08 < mosasaur> fenn: from what I hear they don't like being managed 03:08 < fenn> well it's not a startup 03:10 < fenn> i wonder if being able to do things unconsciously (no need to context swapping) is an important trait of programmers 03:10 < mosasaur> It was some academic incubator with all the accompanying advantages, nothing special. 03:10 < fenn> apparently i just let the cat in but i don't remember doing it 03:11 < mosasaur> it's not all about you fenn 03:11 < xentrac> fenn: it's an important trait of people 03:11 < fenn> me me me me me 03:11 < xentrac> without it we can't walk and chew gum 03:11 < fenn> mosasaur: please invent a syntax where i don't have to start sentences with "I" all the time 03:12 < fenn> s/i/one/ just makes YOU sound pretentious 03:12 < mosasaur> It all started with ey feminists, and now look at where it got us. 03:13 < xentrac> fenn: aparentemente recién dejé entrar al gato pero no me acuerdo de hacerlo 03:13 < fenn> no fair, and besides you still have to conjugate the verb as first person 03:14 < fenn> "the cat was let in, but there is no record of it having been done" 03:14 < fenn> MS word used to give you shit about using the passive tense, and i'm like "hello, it's a research paper" 03:14 < mosasaur> down with first personism 03:15 < xentrac> you mean passive voice 03:15 < mosasaur> they think you should go too 03:17 < gradstudentbot> Got halfway through figuring out all the cell signalling molecules in psoriasis when the cells died and the data couldn't be replicated, so psoriasis is really hard to cure guys don't get it 03:18 < fenn> i can't reconcile "down with first personism" with general semantics and e-prime 03:18 < fenn> we all experience the world subjectively 03:19 < fenn> talking in third person sounds like you have dissociative identity disorder 03:20 < fenn> anyway, menlo park chews up and spits out even the greatest, with barely a plaque to commemorate them 03:23 < mosasaur> The problem is deeper, they weren't even all that great to begin with, they just had a lot of initial velocity. 03:23 < mosasaur> It's the ion thrusters that will outrun them all in the end. 03:26 < fenn> shockley talked about intelligence differences and got a lot of shit for it. i think he was even fired from stanford because of it 03:27 < fenn> "Shockley argued that the higher rate of reproduction among the less intelligent was having a dysgenic effect, and that a drop in average intelligence would ultimately lead to a decline in civilization. Shockley advocated that the scientific community should seriously investigate questions of heredity, intelligence, and demographic trends, and suggest policy changes if he was proven right." 03:27 < fenn> personally i think nutrition and cultural institutions are more important, but there it is 03:28 < mosasaur> maybe he should be fired, if he didn't define intelligence as the potential to self modify, which would enable even less intelligent people to have some social mobility 03:28 < fenn> okay but the same people arguing against "eugenics" are arguing against germ line modification of any sort 03:29 < fenn> and nootropics and cryptocurrencies and all your favorite H+ stuff 03:29 < fenn> i don't think i'm over-generalizing here 03:30 < fenn> i'm comfortable expressing my belief in a genetic contribution to "intelligence" (whatever that is, IQ scores at least) because i also believe in the right to self-modify 03:31 < fenn> anyway shockley was an electrical engineer, not a biologist 03:32 < mosasaur> As I said the problem is deeper, like with assuming math ability is built in and fixed, instead of just having an uninterrupted build up sequence of developmental insights. 03:33 < mosasaur> Not that I am denying that some people have better hardware, just that the limits are probably not where we think they are. 03:37 < fenn> if you boost the average IQ score by 10 points that means the total number of literal geniuses increases by 21 TIMES 03:37 < fenn> assuming a normal distribution 03:38 < fenn> 10 iq points is not a lot on its own, but 21 times the number of geniuses running around makes a difference 03:38 < mosasaur> And, like is the case with python sorting algorithms, it turns out people were further ahead even before one started thinking about it: http://lists.canonical.org/pipermail/kragen-tol/2011-August/000939.html 03:38 < mosasaur> .tilte 03:38 < mosasaur> .title 03:38 < yoleaux> launching things into orbit with a maglev track from a dirigible at the top of the mesosphere 03:39 < fenn> mosasaur: see http://yarchive.net/space/ 03:39 < fenn> in particular the "exotics" section 03:40 < fenn> buried ancient treasure 03:42 < fenn> regarding xentrac's space gun objections, ONE could use a laser to ionize the air ahead of the spaceship-bullet and create a corridor of vacuum to fly through 03:43 < fenn> a big problem is circularizing the orbit, which has to be done within less than one orbit or you hit the ground on the way back around 03:44 < mosasaur> fenn: The genius concept is part of the problem, because it buries Nietzsche's superman (the transitional, developing human) idea under a pile of static admiration. 03:44 < fenn> maybe using the air resistance to accelerate sideways could reduce the delta V needed for circularizing 03:46 < fenn> extending the balloon idea even further you get http://www.jpaerospace.com/ but i never figured out how they were supposed to carry/transmit/acquire enough energy to accelerate fast enough to overcome drag 03:47 < fenn> maybe it was just an investment fraud scheme 03:48 < fenn> or maybe they were just clueless 03:52 < mosasaur> Maybe if two built a pipe high enough and suck all the air out of it, three could launch things into orbit just by letting air in again from under the launch vehicle? 03:52 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:53 < fenn> no, speed of sound is 30 times too slow 03:53 < fenn> that's why the "light gas gun" - sounds travels faster in hydrogen 03:54 < fenn> smaller particle mass means faster velocity for the same amount of momentum 03:55 -!- Adifex is now known as Adifex|zzz 03:55 < fenn> what most people don't realize is how absurd it is that each kilogram of orbiting mass contains more kinetic energy than the equivalent chemical energy in a kilogram of gasoline 03:56 < fenn> and how is a balloon covered in solar panels supposed to gather that much energy in 9 hours? 03:57 < fenn> honestly i think they just started with the V shape and had too much enthusiasm to stop 03:59 < mosasaur> maybe some reflectors/concentrators that are already in orbit are focusing light on that balloon 04:00 < fenn> maybe a flying pink unicorn swoops in and picks them up 04:00 < mosasaur> unfair! 04:00 < fenn> maybe the stop at bertrand russell's teapot and pick up some fuel 04:01 < mosasaur> if you don't want to consider the answer why ask the question 04:02 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:02 < fenn> so, jordin kare evaluated the concept and decided that the balloon's contribution to delta V doesn't compensate for the complexity it introduces 04:02 < fenn> instead you should use a small launch vehicle and beam power to it via laser 04:02 < fenn> same mass, same delta V, more focus, less drag 04:03 < fenn> see, orbit isn't "up" it's "fast" 04:04 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:04 < mosasaur> I thought you were sending lightning strikes ahead of the projectile to split the air in front of it. 04:04 < fenn> .wa accelerate at 1 gravity for 90km in km/s 04:05 < yoleaux> fenn: Sorry, no result! 04:05 < fenn> wtf 04:05 < fenn> .wa accelerate at 1 gravity for 90 km in km per second 04:05 < yoleaux> fenn: Sorry, no result! 04:05 < fenn> how did we do this last time 04:06 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:06 < mosasaur> .wa 1g distance 90 km 04:06 < yoleaux> Input information: distance: 90 km (kilometers); plane angle: 1 grad; Angle subtended: height: 1.414 km (kilometers); = 0.8785 miles; = 4638 feet; http://is.gd/TcJuFo 04:07 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@241-135-15.connect.netcom.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:07 < fenn> sqrt(90km*gravity) is barely even 1 km/s contribution to delta-V 04:07 < mosasaur> .wa acceleration 1g distance 90 km 04:07 < yoleaux> Input information: acceleration: 1 g (standard acceleration due to gravity on the surface of the earth); distance: 90 km (kilometers); Equation of motion: final speed: 1.329 km/s (kilometers per second); = 2972 mph (miles per hour); = 4783 km/h (kilometers per hour) 04:08 < fenn> huh where did 1.329 come from 04:10 < fenn> mosasaur: pushing the air out of the way of a large projectile would take more energy than just launching a small projectile through it 04:10 < fenn> actually i don't really know 04:11 < mosasaur> how much air resistance do have at 20 km altitude? 04:11 < mosasaur> .wa altitude 20 km air resistance 04:12 < yoleaux> air: electrical resistivity: elevation: 20 km (kilometers): (data not available) 04:12 -!- kardan [~kardan@199.254.238.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:12 < fenn> dude you are never going to get a simple answer for that 04:13 < mosasaur> .wa altitude 20 km air pressure 04:13 < yoleaux> altitude: 20 km (kilometers): barometric pressure: 55 mbar (millibars); Unit conversions: 0.55 dbar (decibars); 0.055 bars; 5.5 kPa (kilopascals); 5500 Pa (pascals); 41 torr (unit officially deprecated); Comparisons: ~0.52 × typical diastolic overpressure in human arteries (~80 mmHg); ~0.56 × lung air pressure that a typical adult human can exert (~9800 Pa); ~blood pressure fluctuation between heartbeats for a typical healthy … 04:13 < yoleaux> adult (~5000 Pa) 04:13 < fenn> why 20 km, what's special about that? 04:13 < gradstudentbot> So, there's this really good conference in Spain that I want to attend. 04:14 < fenn> .wa height of mount everest 04:14 < yoleaux> Mount Everest: elevation: 8848 meters; Unit conversions: 29029 feet; 9676 yards; 5.498 miles; 8.848 km (kilometers); Comparisons as height: ~(0.23 ~1/4) × greatest height above the Earth from which a human has jumped (39045 m); ~2.5 × height of Lego bricks a single brick can support without plastic failure (~3.5 km) 04:14 < mosasaur> thats the maximal height of a naturally occurring mountain plus something we can build on top of it 04:15 < fenn> apparently it's about 9 km ^^ 04:16 < fenn> .wa height burj khalifa 04:16 < yoleaux> Burj Khalifa: height: 828 meters (city rank: 1st: national rank: 1st: world rank: 1st); Unit conversions: 2717 feet; 906 yards; 0.5145 miles; 0.828 km (kilometers); Comparisons as height: ~(0.24 ~1/4) × height of Lego bricks a single brick can support without plastic failure (~3.5 km); ~1.5 × height of the CN Tower (~553 m); ~310 × story (8 to 10 ft) 04:17 < fenn> i'm sure one could build a pretty tall carbon fiber tower (hell, even steel has a pretty high specific compressive strength) 04:18 < mosasaur> .wa weather balloon altitude 04:18 < yoleaux> mosasaur: Sorry, no result! 04:19 < fenn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE0n_5qPmRM gah another cancelled google project. sheesh. anyway, he talks about really tall steel towers and why we should build them 04:20 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@241-135-15.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:21 < mosasaur> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_balloon "Weather balloons may reach altitudes of 40 km (25 miles) or more, limited by diminishing pressures causing the balloon to expand to such a degree (typically by a 100:1 factor) that it disintegrates" 04:22 < fenn> i used 90km from xentrac's estimate of the maximum balloon launch altitude 04:22 < mosasaur> so they could probably take some weight off a tower. maybe even be built into its walls 04:24 < fenn> balloons add drag though. maybe a kite would work; transfer the compressive loads to tensile loads (our materials are much better in tension) 04:25 < mosasaur> actually one of my interests is stratosferic balloon organisms, or vacuum containers built from carbon nanotech material 04:25 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:26 < fenn> mosasaur: you should read "ventus" by karl schroeder (and watch that youtube video i just linked!) 04:27 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:28 * fenn has changed the topic to: back of the virtual napkin calculations 04:29 < mosasaur> thanks fenn, will certainly read that, if only for the speculative realist angle 04:30 < fenn> it has some relevance to munchins too (distributed planetary internet of things) 04:30 < fenn> munchkins* 04:30 < fenn> i should use agrep more often 04:31 < fenn> "search for strings which either exactly or approximately match a pattern" 04:33 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@155-17-15.connect.netcom.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:40 -!- ielo [~ielo@134.219.227.35] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:41 < fenn> why dont i have a copy of yarchive.net 04:48 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:49 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:56 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.139.70] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:58 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.139.70] has quit [Client Quit] 05:00 < mosasaur> DOE use "find" to create gigantic file listings for their usb disks and then uses grep to search in those files? 05:02 < fenn> DOE? 05:02 < fenn> is that a pronoun or an agency 05:02 < mosasaur> It used to be the case that locate accepted a database parameter even if that disk was disconnected but it is no more, probably for our own safety. 05:03 < mosasaur> "Does anyone else" it's probably a reddit thing, like AMA. 05:03 < fenn> oh i think it can still do that 05:04 < fenn> -e Print only entries that refer to files existing at the time locate is run. 05:05 < mosasaur> Maybe making typos in acronyms is a bad idea 05:05 < fenn> i had to build a mlocate database in parallel from 6TB of "netapp" raid array files just to be able to find anything 05:05 < fenn> maybe acronyms are a bad idea 05:06 < fenn> maybe reddit is a bad idea 05:06 < fenn> pew pew 05:06 < fenn> someone build an idea exterminator 05:06 < mosasaur> maybe namespaces are a good idea 05:07 < fenn> one honking great idea - let's do more of those! 05:08 < mosasaur> fenn: -e maybe you don't know what you're missing? 05:09 < fenn> if your usb disk isn't plugged in, it won't show up in locate -e 05:09 < mosasaur> how do I get to +e 05:10 < fenn> uh... apparently you have to use redis 05:10 < fenn> that was a joke btw 05:11 < fenn> there aren't very good built-in shell tools for set operations 05:11 < mosasaur> by the way I suspect locate to also automagically refuse to read db that are too old, without telling me 05:12 < fenn> i ran across this but i haven't really used it yet http://www.catonmat.net/blog/set-operations-in-unix-shell/ 05:12 < gradstudentbot> Seriously, who moved my samples? 05:12 < fenn> well RTFM instead of suspecting things 05:13 < gradstudentbot> The grant got rejected. 05:13 < fenn> the software doesn't have a grudge against you 05:13 < fenn> except for maybe gradstudentbot 05:13 < gradstudentbot> The gel is streaking. 05:13 < fenn> sounds like he's having a bad day 05:15 < fenn> mosasaur: you could do locate foo > a ; locate -e foo > b ; diff a b | grep -E ^- 05:16 < fenn> or maybe it's diff b a 05:16 < mosasaur> it's not the DB's that are the problem it's the wrappers with a zillion options that are not sorted by relevance. 05:17 < fenn> huh i use locate all the time 05:17 < mosasaur> That and a lack of good example uses 05:17 < fenn> i agree about lack of examples, and lack of man pages in general 05:17 < mosasaur> Sure I use locate too, but not for USB disks that are offline 05:18 < fenn> sometimes the -h flag is more relevant than the man page if you are unfamiliar with a command 05:18 < mosasaur> man -s relevance locate 05:19 < fenn> i started doing "du > diskname.du" on disks before i unplugged them 05:20 < fenn> but my brain still remembers stuff that is on disks that i don't have anymore 05:21 < fenn> i havent figured out how tracker stores things yet 05:23 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:24 < mosasaur> wow, du -a seems way easier than that complex find command I keep forgetting 05:25 < fenn> find . ? 05:25 < fenn> find does give you way too much shit about the syntax 05:26 < fenn> find: unknown predicate `--type' 05:26 < fenn> find: Arguments to -type should contain only one letter 05:26 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:26 < fenn> find: unknown predicate `-t' 05:26 < fenn> fuck you find! 05:26 < mosasaur> Too bad, it's not in my bash history anymore, so I have to reinvent the wheel. But now I have du -a . 05:27 < fenn> PROMPT_COMMAND="${PROMPT_COMMAND:+$PROMPT_COMMAND ; }"'echo $$ $USER@$HOSTNAME "$(history 1)" >> ~/.bash_eternal_history_$HOSTNAME' 05:27 < fenn> this saves everything you type (and then some) to a file 05:28 < fenn> after four years mine's only 13MB 05:28 < mosasaur> arguably, that would have prevented me from finding out about du 05:29 < fenn> it also prevented me from remembering to multiply by sqrt(2) when finding the speed of a fall from 90km 05:29 < fenn> but i find it useful 05:29 < fenn> especially when you're in the middle of something and just want an answer right now 05:30 < mosasaur> it's so impractical to mess with the fabric of reality 05:31 < fenn> indeed 05:34 < fenn> another good one, add timestamps and localtime HISTTIMEFORMAT="%s %k:%M " 05:37 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@155-17-15.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:37 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@155-17-15.connect.netcom.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:39 < mosasaur> https://www.privatepaste.com/45878618f5 put this in /usr/bin/urlify and make it executable 05:39 < mosasaur> now you can "locate something | urlify" 05:41 < fenn> i have the opposite problem; tracker gives me file:///stuff and i want to dump it straight into another program without having to edit the path 05:41 < mosasaur> some terminals can handle these links 05:41 < fenn> there appears to be no way to turn it off either 05:42 < mosasaur> should be easy to adapt 05:43 < fenn> so now i have to do alias ts='tracker-search $* | sed "s/\s*file:\/\/\/" ? 05:43 < fenn> and what if it gives me some other kind of url 05:44 < mosasaur> use agrep? 05:44 < fenn> actually this sounds pretty trivial, it must have been some other problem 05:45 < fenn> maybe spaces in the url 05:45 < fenn> i dunno.. i think "output as url" should be an option, just don't half-ass it 05:46 < mosasaur> one would need an input output mediator 05:47 < mosasaur> impedance matcher 05:47 < fenn> a content addressable multi-layer indexed storage protocol buffer? 05:49 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:50 < mosasaur> Nah, KISS. Build up complex things from simple lego block like utilities. 05:50 < mosasaur> First we need an input recognizer. 05:51 < mosasaur> classifier/pattern matcher 05:51 < mosasaur> "Is this fenn typing at my terminal" 05:53 < mosasaur> Yes! We have 13MB of possible things they might want to do. 05:53 < fenn> that should be relatively straightforward; `whoami` == 'fenn' 05:54 < fenn> nah most of the stuff in eternal_history is stuff that didn't work 05:59 < fenn> maybe i can synchronize 20 nooks to display 20 consecutive pages from the same pdf in synchrony 05:59 < fenn> synchronously! 05:59 < mosasaur> maybe a gui that displays all possibilities ranked by their bayesian priors 05:59 < fenn> yeah something like dasher would be interesting 05:59 < fenn> i generally hate predictive inputs tho 06:00 < fenn> jef raskin has a whole book about why predictive inputs are bad 06:00 < fenn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Humane_Interface 06:01 < mosasaur> cpu's don't seem to mind running speculative code 06:02 < fenn> sure, humans have a similar mechanism called priming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priming_(psychology) 06:03 < fenn> but predictive inputs change over time, or they are different on different computers 06:03 < fenn> there are entire websites dedicated to screwups of predictive text inputs 06:04 < fenn> damnyouautocorrect.com autocorrectfail.org fyouautocorrect.com wtfautocorrects.com 06:04 < mosasaur> great, now we only need to get priming / multiple code path execution to the intermediary PEBKAC 06:06 < mosasaur> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebkac 06:06 < fenn> let's start by implementing a --prerender=disable switch that doesn't crash the browser 06:06 < fenn> oh maybe it was "purge memory button" that was causing the crashing 06:07 < fenn> (so my thighs are the problem?) 06:13 < mosasaur> yes it's a bit like git for sex 06:14 < mosasaur> didn't like this one? just revert the code path 06:15 < fenn> herpes never forgets 06:15 < fenn> herpes will hunt you down and make you pay child support 06:18 < mosasaur> I think I'm getting a headache 06:19 < mosasaur> basically the term should never do something it can't undo 06:20 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:22 < fenn> so does your urlify un-urlify? 06:22 < mosasaur> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_computing 06:22 < mosasaur> no urlify just urlifies for now 06:22 < fenn> eh, reversible computing is different from undo 06:24 < fenn> i want to make a humane interface so i can use it 06:25 < fenn> zooming would be nice but not a requirement 06:25 < fenn> engelbart had a sort of "zooming" in the way headings were expanded to subheadings etc on down to gloss and footnotes 06:26 < fenn> wikipedia is getting there 06:27 < mosasaur> any sufficiently check-pointed undo is indistinguishable from reversible computing 06:28 < fenn> no because you can undo operations that involve deleting things and affecting other computers 06:29 < fenn> 'undo send that email' 06:29 < fenn> lol 06:30 < mosasaur> as if sending email in reverse would be any better 06:30 < fenn> sending email in reverse would be liame, dude 06:31 < mosasaur> not if it's mp3 06:33 < fenn> xwax: open-source vinyl emulation software for Linux 06:33 < fenn> now you can play your mp3's backwards, and forwards, and backwards, and forwards 06:36 < mosasaur> maybe if we could eliminate ineffective command sequences we could compress eternal bash histroy 06:37 < fenn> i just have a spellbook which contains the things i think i will want to remember 06:38 < fenn> often i use bash history for finding parameters to video filters or imagemagick that i didn't write down 06:38 < fenn> lately i've gotten better at writing them down though 06:39 < fenn> if only we had a universal ontology ... ... 06:40 < kanzure> did you look at opensls? 06:40 < fenn> what's opensls? 06:40 < kanzure> jordan miller paid a bunch of people to do things and one of those things was an open source selective laser sintering machine 06:41 < kanzure> see bottom of http://gnusha.org/logs/2014-05-02.log 06:42 < fenn> WARNING TIME WARP DETECTED 06:42 < fenn> i haven't finished the backlog yet 06:43 < kanzure> backlog debt 06:43 < mosasaur> dam logs do not warp, must load them in scite first 06:43 < kanzure> it's not the logs that are warping, it's the person 06:44 < kanzure> there's a whole mythos you are missing out on 06:44 < mosasaur> they don't wrap lines either 06:46 < fenn> is there an 'unwrap' command? i mean that's a pretty common problem right? 06:47 < kanzure> fold 06:47 < fenn> i want to undo what "fold" does 06:47 < kanzure> fold -w=1000000 06:47 < fenn> to get back to evil evil unwrapped long lines 06:48 < fenn> nope 06:49 < gradstudentbot> Got halfway through figuring out all the cell signalling molecules in psoriasis when the cells died and the data couldn't be replicated, so psoriasis is really hard to cure guys don't get it 06:49 < kanzure> fmt 06:49 < kanzure> why is he stuck in a loop? isn't that the third time he's said that. 06:49 < fenn> i ended up doing some wonky shit with replacing two blank lines with a special character sequence and then deleting all newlines and then replacing my character with newlines again, but that doesn't work for files that have new paragraphs with indentation but no spaces between them 06:50 < kanzure> at least he's consistent 06:50 < kanzure> yep i do the new character sequence thing too (often "FUCKFUCKFUCK") 06:51 < fenn> `cat foo | fmt -w 1000` almost works but it leaves the first line at its normal spacing, and it seems to be limited to some number of columns less than 1000 06:52 < kanzure> how am i supposed to pay my spatio-temporal incurion fees if i just get HTTP 500s? https://www.gotxtag.com/videobilling/payment.do 06:52 < fenn> ah fmt -t -w 1000 06:53 < fenn> thanks kanzure! 06:53 < kanzure> now i shall take my leave 06:53 < kanzure> and if you should ever need me again, 06:53 < kanzure> i'll be over there (points wildly to some fake star cluster) 06:54 < fenn> * * * * * * * 06:54 < fenn> * * * * * * 06:54 < fenn> * * * * * * * 06:54 < kanzure> yep, that one 06:54 -!- marciogm [~marciogm@186-210-229-026.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:57 < kanzure> the hell is fold? 06:57 < kanzure> both fold and fmt are from coreutils 07:00 < kanzure> btw you probably heard of rohit khare from eugen leitl 07:00 < kanzure> from "the friends of rohit khare mailing list" 07:04 < kanzure> i am looking at those emails in my archive 07:04 < kanzure> " Many of us think, at least at times, much faster than we can communicate. At the moment, we can only leverage and communicate stored information in external ways. We could probably communicate several times faster, plus boost that with shorthand and keyword-like inclusion of packets of existing knowledge. Given a much better visualization and representation method, we should be able to communicate a lot of information quickly in an ... 07:04 < kanzure> ... absorbable way." 07:04 < kanzure> http://point7.wordpress.com/2013/06/15/why-are-there-wizards/ trivial/boring 07:06 < kanzure> meh, a lot of the emails look like they have the potential to be interesting, but then they are not 07:06 < kanzure> is there some other reason to stalk him and/or his pals 07:08 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:09 < kanzure> ugh "The Internet Is a Major Driver of the Growth of CognitiveInequality" 07:10 < kanzure> here's one of their links they were dissipating: http://www.ecnmag.com/news/2010/07/mit-researchers-create-fibers-can-detect-and-produce-sound 07:13 < fenn> "I could probably submit your biography to the category of notable pornographic contributors and you would remain notable in that category forever. 07:13 < fenn> "I could probably submit your biography to the category of notable pornographic contributors and you would remain notable in that category forever. 07:15 < fenn> electroactive polymers has been the holy grail of materials science since like forever 07:17 < fenn> After the fiber has been drawn, the researchers need to align all the piezoelectric molecules in the same direction. That requires the application of a powerful electric field — 20 times as powerful as the fields that cause lightning during a thunderstorm. Anywhere the fiber is too narrow, the field would generate a tiny lightning bolt, which could destroy the material around it. 07:17 < kanzure> i saw a paper about a nanotube/nanowire forest array that was doing multi-GHz ultrasound 07:18 < fenn> maybe you could get away with overlapping segments of shorter fibers 07:20 < fenn> or a spiral wound composite fiber with parallel electrodes 07:20 < fenn> then the fiber would only need to have an electret across a mm or less, but it would contract all the way down the length 07:21 < fenn> or maybe a straight fiber with spiral wound electrodes 07:21 < fenn> a double helix 07:22 < fenn> that might be worth looking into 07:23 < kanzure> i would like to avoid chemical/physical vapor deposition, it seems annoying 07:23 < kanzure> and lots of the nanowire array stuff requires that 07:25 < kanzure> engineering for minimum annoyance is valid, right? 07:28 < fenn> "actuator made from coiled monofilament fishing line is 100 times stronger than human muscle" https://www.sciencemag.org/content/343/6173/868.figures-only 07:29 < kanzure> units of strongness? 07:29 < fenn> bah 07:29 < fenn> paperbot: https://www.sciencemag.org/content/343/6173/868.full.pdf 07:30 < fenn> i think it was force/mass 07:31 < paperbot> SSLError: [Errno 1] _ssl.c:504: error:140770FC:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:unknown protocol (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/models.py", line 632, in send) 07:31 < fenn> sciencemag.org seems to be having problems with ssl today 07:32 < kanzure> i should check heartbleed against massive-list-of-stupid-ass-publishers.txt 07:33 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/irc/ray_baughman_coiled_monofilament_fishing_line_actuator_muscle.pdf 07:33 < fenn> wait 07:36 < fenn> ok 07:38 < fenn> i was remembering something that just used fishing line, not carbon nanotubes 07:38 < fenn> i think this is the right article 07:42 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:43 < fenn> this is heat-actuated which kinda sucks 07:43 < fenn> but at least it doesn't use any hard to obtain materials 07:44 < fenn> today i learned that PZT piezoelectric ceramic is a type of perovskite 07:46 < fenn> cool "Like structurally similar lead scandium tantalate and barium strontium titanate, PZT can be used for manufacture of uncooled staring array infrared imaging sensors for thermographic cameras." 07:46 < mosasaur> yesterday I learned that electrostatic ultrasound transducers have a wider frequency range, so more sound pressure 07:47 < fenn> now you're just talking nonsense 07:47 < mosasaur> maybe it got stored the wrong way 07:48 < fenn> maybe you enjoy wasting my time 07:48 < mosasaur> maybe you are a narcissist 07:49 < kanzure> if only 07:50 < kanzure> a lot of my problems would be way different and less problematic if fenn was more of a narcissist 07:50 < kanzure> (yes, i know the world balances weirdly) 07:51 -!- ielo [~ielo@134.219.227.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:51 -!- kardan [~kardan@199.254.238.142] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:51 < fenn> links or it didn't happen 07:51 < mosasaur> looking for them now 07:53 < fenn> patentbot US7804971 07:53 < fenn> i wonder if yoleaux finds patents 07:53 < fenn> .help patent 07:53 < yoleaux> fenn: Sorry, no help is available for patent. 07:53 < kanzure> i wonder if there's a sane way to obscure a patent so that looking at it doesn't make you legally fucked 07:53 < kanzure> i think it's just https://patents.google.com/ 07:54 < kanzure> https://www.google.com/patents/CN101792762B "Pokemon specific regulation of gene expression and application of antisense oligonucleotides" 07:55 < fenn> an electrostatic ultrasonic transducer capable of generating usual sound pressure with lower energy http://google.com/patents/US7804971 07:56 < fenn> .g 7804971 07:56 < yoleaux> http://integernumber.com/7804971 07:56 < fenn> .g US7804971 07:56 < yoleaux> https://www.google.com/patents/US7804971 07:56 < fenn> well that works 07:56 < fenn> .title 07:56 < yoleaux> Electrostatic ultrasonic transducer, ultrasonic speaker and display device 07:57 < fenn> http://example.com/ 07:57 < fenn> .g US7804971 07:57 < yoleaux> https://www.google.com/patents/US7804971 07:57 < fenn> .title 07:57 < yoleaux> Electrostatic ultrasonic transducer, ultrasonic speaker and display device 07:57 < kanzure> heh yes i was thinking the same 07:59 < fenn> The piezoelectric element, however, has a sharp resonance point regardless of a material and is driven at a frequency of the resonance to be put to practical use as an ultrasonic speaker. This causes an extremely small range of the frequency capable of securing high sound pressure, that is, a narrow band. 07:59 < gradstudentbot> We simply don't do enough titrations in my lab. 08:00 < fenn> this is much easier to read in a korean accent 08:00 -!- _0bitcount [~big-byte@213.37.172.228.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:00 < mosasaur> http://www.freshpatents.com/Electrostatic-ultrasonic-transducer-and-ultrasonic-speaker-audio-signal-reproduction-method-ultra-directive-sound-system-and-display-apparatus-using-electrostatic-ultrasonic-transducer-dt20080626ptan20080152172.php 08:01 < mosasaur> "Unlike the resonance-type ultrasonic transducer shown in FIG. 9, an electrostatic-type ultrasonic transducer in related art can generate high sound pressure throughout a high frequency band range as a broadband generation type ultrasonic transducer. " 08:02 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@155-17-15.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 08:03 < mosasaur> so it got stored as piezo transducers ==> narrow frequency range electrostats ==> broadband sound emitters 08:03 < mosasaur> Was this wrong? 08:03 < fenn> no 08:05 < mosasaur> so you assumed I was giving you redundant information? 08:05 < fenn> resonance boosts the gain by the Q factor (?) so how does a non-resonant emitter increase sound pressure? 08:05 < fenn> i actually thought you were just spouting gobbledygook 08:06 < fenn> ideonomics shows that any random sequence of related words/phrases will contain a nugget of "interestingness" 08:07 < fenn> http://ideonomy.mit.edu/intro.html 08:07 < mosasaur> maybe you are so smart that you think everything you can't parse must be nonsense 08:08 < kanzure> you don't have to be smart for that to happen 08:09 < mosasaur> I was discounting lack of stimulants 08:10 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:13 < fenn> .d apophenia 08:13 < yoleaux> Sorry, I couldn't find a definition for 'apophenia'. 08:14 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:14 < kanzure> https://github.com/soundcloud/roshi "Roshi implements a time-series event storage via a LWW-element-set CRDT with inline garbage collection. Roshi is a stateless, distributed layer on top of Redis and is implemented in Go. It is partition tolerant, highly available and eventually consistent. At a high level, Roshi maintains sets of values, with each set ordered according to (external) timestamp, newest-first. Roshi provides the following API: ... 08:14 < kanzure> ... insert delete select. Roshi stores a sharded copy of your dataset in multiple independent Redis instances, called a cluster. Roshi provides fault tolerance by duplicating clusters; multiple identical clusters, normally at least 3, form a farm. Roshi leverages CRDT semantics to ensure consistency without explicit consensus." 08:15 < fenn> please paraphrase that 08:15 < fenn> it saves logs, reliably? 08:16 < kanzure> no idea :) 08:17 -!- pyotra [~asakharov@24.60.79.55] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:17 < fenn> pyotra: is your name actually A. Sakharov? 08:17 < kanzure> "Roshi replicates data over several non-communicating clusters" how do you do this without sending data (communication)? 08:18 < fenn> quantum entanglement 08:19 < mosasaur> multicast 08:19 < kanzure> multicast involves communication 08:19 < mosasaur> not inter-clusterl communication 08:21 < fenn> "if you have to ask, you don't need it"? 08:21 < mosasaur> basically it sends all clusters the data at the same time without the clusters communicating with each other 08:21 < mosasaur> I can make sense of things even fenn can't 08:22 < mosasaur> not claiming the things an sich make sense 08:22 < fenn> i think "it saves logs, reliably" was a pretty good paraphrasing 08:22 < gradstudentbot> Who took my stethoscope? 08:22 < kanzure> i don't think logging is the point, looks like a generic layer thing on top of redis 08:22 < kanzure> and redis is definitely not only for logs 08:23 < fenn> why the emphasis on "time series events" 08:23 < fenn> it's one thing to talk about the implementation details (redis, go, etc) another to say what it actually is good for 08:23 < kanzure> because physics happens in distributed systems and there's weird clock drift where part of your system is operating in the future 08:25 < fenn> logs could be database transactions or filesystem journal events or whatever 08:26 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@36.90-149-182.nextgentel.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:26 < fenn> i still don't know what the intended use case is 08:26 < fenn> i guess you like it because it's related to DBZ? 08:27 < kanzure> no, it showed up in an email 08:28 < fenn> it sort of reminds me of operational transforms like used in Wave or etherpad 08:28 < fenn> but i guess it's just a distributed database "thing" (what is it?) 08:29 < fenn> "Roshi should not be used as a source of truth, but only as an intermediate store for performance critical data. 08:31 < mosasaur> In my opinion sharding is mostly used to pacify managers into thinking that just adding hardware is enough to solve all their problems. 08:32 < fenn> just let moore's law fix it 08:33 < kanzure> ugh http://dnlongen.blogspot.com/2014/04/credit-cards-for-12-million-drivers.html 08:34 < kanzure> http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/04/09/5725535/toll-tag-trauma-state-shuts-down.html 08:34 * kanzure shrugs 08:34 < fenn> every vendor you give your credit card to has your credit card number, i wouldn't worry about it 08:34 < kanzure> no, this is about their unscheduled downtime 08:34 < kanzure> they are redirecting to http://www.txtag.org/system_outage.php and https://www.gotxtag.com/videobilling/ 08:35 < fenn> good thing it was a government and not a corporation or mister Longnecker would be facing jailtime for "unauthorized access" 08:35 < kanzure> governments don't convict people they are upset with? 08:36 < fenn> they already have bad PR so they don't care if someone points out their flaws 08:36 < fenn> don't ask me, man, none of this makes any sense 08:37 < mosasaur> uptime maximization is for reducing fear of duplicate mass emailings 08:37 < fenn> if you haven't figured it out i'm referring to weev vs AT&T 08:40 < mosasaur> I one parses all this stuff as management pacifiers it makes a lot more sense 08:41 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=80ffc25a Bryan Bishop: remove weird css theme 08:42 < kanzure> wtf it didn't work 08:42 * kanzure runs rebuildrepo 08:43 < kanzure> much better, http://diyhpl.us/wiki/ 08:58 < kanzure> fenn: feel like doing a quick code review? https://github.com/kanzure/python-brlcad/pull/28/files 08:59 < mosasaur> Maybe nature equipped us with hyperactive patten matching to avoid predators, like better a few times too often than one time too few and end up being eaten. 09:02 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-92-24-45-78.ppp.as43234.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:03 -!- marciogm [~marciogm@186-210-229-026.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:04 -!- Adifex|zzz is now known as Adifex 09:05 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:11 < mosasaur> Is brlcad a bit like vpython? 09:15 < kanzure> brlcad is military software for designing superweapons using constructive solid geometry and weird bits of tcl 09:17 < mosasaur> http://ajem.com/ 09:17 < mosasaur> .title 09:17 < yoleaux> AJEM 09:18 < kanzure> i wonder if there's a sort of shoe you could wear that would make it more likely for you to survive free fall from the sky 09:20 < mosasaur> What is the free fall end speed of a human body and how many g deceleration is acceptable 09:21 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-76-167-105-53.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:21 < mosasaur> Is it acceptable for the shoe to turn in the kind of air mattress firemen use to let people escape from the roof of a highrise building ? 09:22 < fenn> opensls looks pretty straightforward; i don't get why it costs $15k (maybe they weren't optimizing for cost yet) 09:22 < gradstudentbot> My experiment was working a second ago, but now it doesn't even work. 09:23 < fenn> "xentrac> can I project my laptop monitor onto a light-sensitive surface to do LCD photolithography?" yes, but it will be slower than laser or DLP because monitors aren't as bright 09:23 < kanzure> mosasaur: yes, i think a transforming shoe is okay 09:24 < fenn> omg AshleyWaffle posted something on-topic 09:25 < fenn> xentrac: did you actually mean photolithography or did you mean stereolithography? 09:29 < fenn> using a gantry style laser cutter to do SLS seems like it would miss out on the neat thing about lasers; you can direct them with mirrors at high velocity. this isn't used in laser cutters because the kerf (cut) wouldn't be straight, but for melting the surface layer of a powder bed it's fine 09:30 < fenn> DLP SLS is interesting; maybe the DLP chip would overheat 09:31 < fenn> maybe the laser is too underpowered to make a difference in terms of speed, or they aren't at the point where speed is a concern 09:32 < fenn> there are so many ways to do 3d printing 09:32 < fenn> laser printer toner seems like it would be a good medium 09:33 < kanzure> foldable backpack hang glider would probably work better than shoe stuff 09:35 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:35 < kanzure> also, i should wear my phone on my shoe 09:36 < fenn> wearing phones on shoes is correlated with steps detected which have been proven to be associated with health 09:42 < kanzure> oh wait, wrist crap exists 09:42 < kanzure> code review stuff? 09:45 < fenn> thrash thrash thrash 09:47 < fenn> caveat: i haven't looked at or even thought about BRL-CAD in years 09:47 < cluckj> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pArBEnKcoMw 09:47 < cluckj> .title 09:47 < yoleaux> Get Smart Shoe Phone 09:50 < kanzure> i could put my shoe up to my ear to make a phone call 09:50 < fenn> kanzure: why am i "reviewing" changes to code i've never looked at before? 09:51 < kanzure> fenn: because (1) you have a vague interest in brlcad (2) you know some python things (3) i am less likely to bring up obvious problems because i am "too close" to the code. 09:51 < cluckj> yiss 09:51 < kanzure> (i didn't write the stuff he is submitting, but over time i've been lowering my expectations dramatically..) 09:51 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, but his PI wrote his dissertation. 09:51 < fenn> who is ncsaba? 09:52 < kanzure> random dude 09:52 < kanzure> just showed up 09:52 < fenn> anyway, it looks like code. and the ascii art docstrings help me at least 09:52 < kanzure> "it looks like code" is not an acceptable code review result :P 09:53 < fenn> you should have said something 8 hours ago 09:53 < kanzure> why 8 hours ago? 09:54 < fenn> oh wait sorry, you showed up and said "did you look at ..." 09:54 < fenn> you and xentrac are both blue, it's confusing 09:54 < fenn> 7 letters long 09:56 < mosasaur> wdb.py has global vars 09:56 < kanzure> yikes 09:58 < kanzure> yeah i should call him out on that one 09:58 < kanzure> or just fix it myself 09:59 < fenn> create_getter is not pythonic, it should make properties instead (but this is maybe advanced python-knowhow?) 10:00 < fenn> are there _get functions for the other geometries too? 10:00 < fenn> .get 10:04 -!- _0bitcount [~big-byte@213.37.172.228.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:11 < fenn> nevermind he actually is using properties, not getters/setters 10:13 < fenn> i need to go do a thing; i'll look at this tomorrow 10:17 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-92-24-45-78.ppp.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:27 -!- marciogm [~marciogm@186-210-229-026.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:29 -!- mosasaur [~mosasaur@178.227.154.9] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:55 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:13 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:25 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:31 < xentrac> fenn: well, stereolithography was the desired goal of the photolithography 11:33 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:33 < chris_99> isn't stereolithography 3d while photolithography is 2d 11:34 < xentrac> yes 11:35 < xentrac> but DLP 3dp systems are in some sense doing multiple layers of photolithography to get "stereolithography" 11:38 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:39 -!- entelech1os [~elysium@190.211.94.18] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:42 -!- entelechios [~elysium@190.211.92.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:56 -!- entelech1os [~elysium@190.211.94.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:08 -!- Zhwazi [~Zhwazi@copyfree/contributor/Zhwazi] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:20 -!- Zhwazi [~Zhwazi@copyfree/contributor/Zhwazi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:40 < kanzure> Please do not close this window or use the back button 12:40 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, I read the paper, I just don't remember the details. 12:45 <@heath> jrayhawk, kanzure: i'd like to setup a gnusha account again 12:45 <@heath> no sense in paying linode ~$20/month 12:45 <@heath> or amazon ~40/year 12:50 < jrayhawk> it's still there 12:50 <@heath> cool 12:51 < jrayhawk> "heath@A1410" 12:51 <@heath> thanks 12:51 < jrayhawk> as ybit, which I can change if you want. 12:58 < jrayhawk> that said we're probably getting overcontended for the freenode connection limit 13:00 < kanzure> you mean i can't open a million connections to freenode? 13:00 < jrayhawk> that's correct 13:00 < kanzure> well you're just full of bad news aren't you 13:01 < kanzure> hrmph 13:16 -!- marciogm [~marciogm@186-210-229-026.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:16 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: ElixirVitae 13:51 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:12 < fenn> heh even for the "open source lab"? surely you can swing your opensourcely might around 14:14 < fenn> there's only 7 connections as far as i can see 14:23 < kanzure> maybe number of joined channels per connection matters 14:29 < kanzure> what was i doing? 14:40 < kanzure> ugh you guys made me read about basilisks? fuck you 14:41 < kanzure> "biobank problems" http://www.genengnews.com/media/images/AnalysisAndInsight/PharmaIQ_infographic_5214_biobanking1992052391.jpg (uh?) 14:42 < kanzure> "Whatever you do, don't call these amplifiers hearing aids. They are not considered medical devices like the ones overseen by the Food and Drug Administration and dispensed by professionals to aid those with impaired hearing. Rather, they are over-the-counter systems cleared by the F.D.A. for occasional use in situations when speech and other sounds are hard to discern--say, in a noisy restaurant or while bird-watching." 14:43 < kanzure> so non-fda approved devices still have to be approved by the fda? 14:43 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:43 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.cell.com/neuron/abstract/S0896-6273(14)00111-1 14:43 < kanzure> .title 14:43 < yoleaux> kanzure: Sorry: that command is a web-service, but its response was too long. 14:43 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/3b3af6c91a0ea61cdbd02ef04a693db6.txt 14:46 < kanzure> i wonder if i can orchestrate a way to get the fda and nra to fight it out, "shotguns are not approved medical devices for assisted suicide, so we have to confiscate all shotguns and handguns from the population" 14:46 < kanzure> jrayhawk: how can i make that fight happen 15:03 -!- Guest85608 [~not@100.43.114.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:05 -!- padz [~not@100.43.114.90] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:30 < kanzure> "A nice thought exercise for me is what would computing look like if you could fab wafers for free, today. Sort of the ad absurdum take on Moore's Law continuing." 15:34 < kanzure> probably lots more experimental hardware, lots more asics 15:35 < kanzure> full-wafer memory/dis 15:35 < kanzure> *dies 15:43 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59 -!- kardan [~kardan@199.254.238.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:02 < delinquentme> OK so Im * completely * lost here 16:02 < delinquentme> http://ajs.sagepub.com/content/39/7/1522.abstract 16:03 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1177%2F0363546510397815 16:04 < delinquentme> these guys are taking dismembered bodyparts ... and they're claiming these body parts healed. 16:04 < delinquentme> Does this happen? I HAVE to be overlooking something here 16:15 < streety> delinquentme: they use the term repaired which I think is more mechanical than healed. They damage the tendon and attempt to repair the damage using two different techniques and then look at which can take the most load 16:17 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:33 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@154.122.19.168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:51 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59 < poppingtonic> ping 17:04 < poppingtonic> hey gradstudentbot 17:04 < gradstudentbot> I think more research is required. 17:07 < delinquentme> streety, yeah 17:07 < delinquentme> Its shit research. 17:22 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:46 -!- padz [~not@100.43.114.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:51 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:56 -!- padz [~not@100.43.114.90] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:03 -!- pads [~not@100.43.114.90] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:03 -!- pads is now known as Guest76066 18:05 -!- padz [~not@100.43.114.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:10 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:10 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@36.90-149-182.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:22 < delinquentme> paperbot, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1566477 19:32 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57 < kanzure> .title 19:57 < yoleaux> Microbiologic screening as a preparatory ste... [Transplant Proc. 1992] 19:57 < kanzure> j. black eso. sorcery 20:19 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:19 < nmz787> anyone know if human embryos work in cattle or swine surrogates? 20:20 < kanzure> well, they work in human surrogates 20:20 < nmz787> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interspecific_pregnancy 20:21 < nmz787> yes I'm not interested in human surrogates 20:21 < nmz787> seems too expensive, and less control over the nutrition before and during pregnancy 20:22 < nmz787> it would be neat to tell your 'kids' they were born vegans :P 20:22 < nmz787> your surrogate was purely a vegan, only ate grass 20:24 < yashgaroth> surrogate moother, heh get it 20:24 < nmz787> lol 20:24 < nmz787> looool 20:26 < nmz787> "Human-animal transgenesis and chimeras might be an expression of our humanity" 20:26 < nmz787> http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1162/15265160360706462 20:26 < nmz787> paperbot: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1162/15265160360706462 20:26 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/f5df4d5b6874238d52175867f096b841.pdf 20:26 < nmz787> nice 20:29 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33 < nmz787> problems of oregon living... onions rot more often in your cabinet, leaving you onionless when you need to cook 20:34 < nmz787> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11948-004-0042-4 20:35 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Reproductive%20ectogenesis%3A%20The%20third%20era%20of%20human%20reproduction%20and%20some%20moral%20consequences.pdf 20:36 -!- sheena1 [~home@67.201.165.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:36 < gradstudentbot> Seriously, who moved my samples? 20:38 -!- sheena [~home@67.201.165.63] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:49 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:50 -!- AshleyWaffle_ [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:03 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:17 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:18 < kanzure> gene_hacker: hi 21:19 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:19 < nmz787> huh, https://losangeles.craigslist.org/ant/etc/4452653705.html 21:19 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19 < nmz787> "Earn $30k - $40k" 21:19 < nmz787> "Become a surrogate mother and make dreams come true" 21:20 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:20 < nmz787> so that's what some middle man is paying, so customers must be paying, what, double that? 21:20 < nmz787> or like 25% that? 21:27 < kanzure> the rule of thumb is that the amount out of pocket for the customer is one year's salary (pre-tax?) 21:27 < kanzure> there are cheaper deals in india, but not everyone wants to have some $15k pregnancy 21:27 < kanzure> i have no idea where the full-year's-salary idea came from but i've heard it from a few sources 21:28 < kanzure> usually i hear more like $80-$150k but, now that i think about it, why would you pay $150k if $80k is also an option 21:29 < kanzure> you want to pay enough for, at minimum, good nutrition and medical stuff 21:30 < kanzure> but also possibly minimizing work-related stress, so you don't want to pay enough to encourage the surrogate to get another job 21:30 < kanzure> erm, *pay poorly enough to 21:31 < kanzure> also it's possibly more than 9 months because of pre-pregnancy stuff 21:40 < gene_hacker> hey kanzure, do you know if nanoengineer can do dative bonds? 21:48 < kanzure> i don't know, and i don't see "dative" mentioned here: https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/blob/master/cad/src/model/bonds.py 21:50 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:52 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:53 < kanzure> cad/src/ReadMe.html:
  • ** The simulator does not handle hydrogen bonds or dative bonds 21:53 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/blob/13316409d2911388e7fbc4643804553dbc2f13ed/cad/src/ReadMe.html 21:54 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:04 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@154.122.19.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:05 < kanzure> gene_hacker: https://github.com/andreasbastian/opensls 22:05 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@154.122.19.168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:10 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:14 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:26 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:26 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:28 < gene_hacker> curses 22:29 < gene_hacker> I guess I'll have to figure out how to hack them in 22:31 < gene_hacker> open SLS really should be using flowing nitrogen and a heated chamber 22:32 < gene_hacker> SLS is hard! sintering is dependent on T^4 which makes it really sensitive to minor temperature variations 22:32 < xentrac> that's interesting! Why T⁴? 22:37 < gene_hacker> because thats what the empirically determined sintering equation says 22:37 < gene_hacker> or maybe not empirically determined 22:37 < gene_hacker> I'm going to have to guess, something something surface energy 22:38 < xentrac> heh 22:38 < xentrac> I guess that also means that you can get fairly sharp boundaries between sintered and non-sintered regions without having huge temperature gradients 22:40 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-76-167-105-53.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:40 < gene_hacker> it also means, that the slightest bit of temperature difference can mess things up 22:40 < gene_hacker> print a part with nothing around it and your fine 22:41 < xentrac> well, maybe 22:41 < gene_hacker> print a part with another part near it, and the part is ruined or better 22:41 < xentrac> I guess it depends on how far apart sintering and melting are 22:41 < gene_hacker> yup 22:42 < xentrac> if you can go 200 degrees past sintering with no problem, say 22:42 < xentrac> then a five or ten degree difference in the environment won't matter much 22:44 < gene_hacker> if you do that with plastic, well end up with not plastic 22:46 < gene_hacker> *you end up with not plastic 22:47 < xentrac> yes, probably 22:48 < xentrac> maybe there might be some marginal exceptions (PTFE? polyimide? epoxy?) but maybe not even those 22:54 < gene_hacker> with PTFE, you end up with deadly and probably corrosive gas 22:54 < gene_hacker> but it seems the real problem the open SLS people are having right now isn't sintering, it's warping 22:54 < gene_hacker> and it's possible to fix that in software 22:58 < gene_hacker> back in 2011, when the japanese shut off all their nuclear power plants, a service bureau down there figured a way to solve the warping problem 22:59 < xentrac> a very small amount of deadly and probably corrosive gas 23:00 < xentrac> that's really interesting about the warping 23:00 < gene_hacker> you see, you can't shut off an SLS machine when it's running, otherwise the build will be ruined due to warping 23:00 < gene_hacker> so this service bureau was losing lot$ of money because of all the rolling blackouts causing their builds to crash 23:01 < xentrac> right 23:01 < gene_hacker> so what they did was have the machine build struts into the parts to prevent warping 23:01 < gene_hacker> they didn't even need to heat the powder bed and they could stop and start the thing anytime 23:07 < xentrac> interesting! 23:10 < kanzure> gene_hacker: cheapo ways of making highly-addressable piezo transducer arrays? 23:10 < gene_hacker> addressable piezo arrays? 23:11 < gene_hacker> what are you trying to make? 23:11 < gene_hacker> how big of an array? 23:11 < kanzure> ultrasound phased array 23:11 < kanzure> imaging, stimulation, hopefully on same array 23:12 < gene_hacker> oh i see 23:12 < kanzure> stimulation somewhere between 250 kHz-5 MHz, i think imaging between 2-10 MHz 23:12 < gene_hacker> ultrasonic buzzers are cheap 23:13 < gene_hacker> anything more and you'll have to buy a pottery kiln 23:13 < gene_hacker> and mod it for fine temperature control 23:13 < kanzure> i'm okay with 2x2 to 8x8 but more would be interesting 23:15 < kanzure> also, a kiln doesn't sound that bad 23:17 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:18 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:19 < gene_hacker> yeah kilns are that bad 23:20 < gene_hacker> *aren't 23:20 < gene_hacker> you can make superconductors with modded kilns 23:20 < gene_hacker> now how about this? http://www-bcf.usc.edu/~yongchen/Research/ISFA2012_7119.pdf 23:20 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www-bcf.usc.edu/~yongchen/Research/ISFA2012_7119.pdf 23:20 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/db1a4c95247a3c2edc13a65ecff02899.txt 23:20 < kanzure> oops 23:21 < kanzure> nice 23:22 < gene_hacker> yup, just a DLP project pointing at a big o' vat of resin with some PZT mixed 23:23 < kanzure> electrodes deposited by sputtering in that one 23:23 < gene_hacker> more recently some guys down georgia tech used something similar to make jet turbine blade molds for really cheap 23:24 < kanzure> i have no idea, are people still making turbine blades with those n-axis cnc machines? 23:25 < gene_hacker> they also found that the STL file format sucks for this sort of thing, and found it better to slice it from a CAD file and export to an old fax machine format 23:25 < gene_hacker> probably only for prototyping purposes 23:26 < gene_hacker> turbine blades are are made from single crystalline superalloy that requires a special molding process 23:28 < gene_hacker> superalloy is @%#& to machine 23:28 < kanzure> iirc those authors presented at the sff symposium in austin a while back 23:28 < gene_hacker> yup 23:28 < kanzure> but it might be a different shung/chen 23:29 < gene_hacker> it isn't 23:29 < kanzure> no idea 23:29 < kanzure> cool 23:30 < gradstudentbot> I think the centrifuge is broken. 23:31 < gradstudentbot> Once you go Markov, you never go Bach. 23:33 < kanzure> gene_hacker: you should come up with an excuse to collaborate with jordan miller at rice 23:34 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:34 < kanzure> since he got the tissue printing and open source sintering stuff to happen 23:35 < gene_hacker> well right now I'm trying to make nanomachines 23:36 < kanzure> have you seen the .mmp files in nanoengineer.git? there's a bunch of different nanoscopic machine parts modeled up. 23:37 < kanzure> of course, many of them are just "ideas from mesospace scaled down to really really tiny", but whatever 23:37 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/tree/master/cad/partlib 23:38 < gene_hacker> yeah 23:38 < gene_hacker> I'm on a project to do something similiar 23:39 < kanzure> xentrac: did you ever see the nanofactory video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEYN18d7gHg 23:39 < gene_hacker> we want to make molecular 'origami' that folds in response to light 23:39 < kanzure> you could probably get that with dna if you want 23:39 < kanzure> there are a few ways to get dna to respond to light 23:40 < gene_hacker> we've got a better way to do it than DNA 23:40 < kanzure> oh good 23:40 < kanzure> 'cause this stuff is annoying and black sorcery, http://dna.caltech.edu/DNAresearch_publications.html 23:40 < gene_hacker> with a higher rigidity than DNA 23:44 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:44 < gene_hacker> we're using metal organic frameworks BTW 23:45 < gene_hacker> they've got all the rigidity of drexler, and the self assembly like smalley 23:46 < kanzure> where'd you find it? 23:46 < gene_hacker> ? 23:46 < kanzure> self-assembling origami gears out of metal is not a typical thing to run into? 23:47 < kanzure> just wondering where it's from, was it something found in nature, etc 23:47 < gene_hacker> it doesn't exist yet 23:47 < gene_hacker> we're trying to design it 23:48 < kanzure> so you'll have to search possible atoms and bonds that lead to the types of folds you need? 23:48 < gene_hacker> yeah 23:49 < gene_hacker> but if you want self assembling gears there's this: http://www.chemistryviews.org/details/news/2051985/Metal-Organic_Framework_for_Rotaxanes.html 23:49 < kanzure> are you aiming for small parts, or a substrate that can fold into a larger system on its own? 23:50 < gene_hacker> small parts in a huge repeating lattice 23:50 < kanzure> the lattice would be surface bound? 23:51 < gene_hacker> no it is the lattice 23:51 < gene_hacker> it's a metal organic framework that's supposed to change shape 23:54 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:57 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:58 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:59 < kanzure> nsh: per your request the other day, forgot to mention this playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgO7JBj821uEq-iLteI2BgeXc8JY1PgF2&feature=mh_lolz --- Log closed Sun May 04 00:00:58 2014