--- Log opened Thu May 08 00:00:54 2014
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01:02 <@_archels> I thought that there's generally a lot of refurbished lab/medical equipment floating around in the US
01:02 <@_archels> won't that beat ordering at Alibaba?
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04:40 < AshleyWaffle> music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usxRzC-TI6k
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06:37 <@kanzure> _archels: no, most of that equipment doesn't work
06:38 <@kanzure> _archels: because if it did, it would be sold for much more
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06:44 <@kanzure> hrm
06:45 <@kanzure> oh, he was in a netsplit
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06:57 <@_archels> is it worth buying one that is defunct and refurbishing yourself?
07:00 <@_archels> paperbot: http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/NECO_a_00592
07:00 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/1bec416a0a27662988cbd3364e0add53.pdf
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09:14 < cluckj> paperbot, http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/early/2014/03/31/db13-1612.full.pdf
09:15 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/f84791ea3c41091483e08cc9e6591b1a.txt
09:15 < cluckj> shit's broke
09:36 < chris_99> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-40675-1_73
09:37 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/63f7b3b32ccb40cc815121bc924f82b4.txt
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10:35 < fenn> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-3-642-40675-1_73.pdf
10:35 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/119017d7992207b30d055f9cbf9254fc.txt
10:42 < xmj> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006322314002753
10:42 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/683b55a712728fffb3067cbd5b22a44f.txt
10:43 < xmj> now that didn't work
10:43 < xmj> did it
10:44 < fenn> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006322314002753/pdfft?md5=332367733ae617da66390d1b1fd43f0d&pid=1-s2.0-S0006322314002753-main.pdf
10:44 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/14dd0eefc5b8e398517f0b5c6adf6a38.pdf
10:44 < fenn> it's a robot, not very smart
10:45 < fenn> "psilocibin correlates with positive mood" no shit
10:46 < fenn> if only they could make it less fun, then we could turn it into a pharmaceutical
10:59 < fenn> "The yellow stickers affixed to the trash and recycling bins said 'Take Me!' and so they did. Mina Krini read the notes as an invitation that the tubs were up for grabs, but Authorities saw things differently. The District, which is in the process of replacing the bins, had handed out the stickers so residents could mark the old ones for city removal. But the ffort to pick up and recycle the bins
10:59 < fenn> has lagged, leaving containers with 'Take Me!' stickers littering alleys all over town. Mina Karini and Timothy Melham were out late, after 1 a.m. because people put out their trash before they go to bed. 'The words Take Me mean people don't want them anymore,' she said. But a Secret Service agent, who happened to spot them while guarding a Georgetown home, found the scene suspicious and alerted
10:59 < fenn> the police. In their report, police intimated a scheme far more sinister than seeking free flower pots. By the time they were arrested, police said the pair had 51 bins stacked in a vehicle. An officer estimated the value of all 51 at $100, which works out to $1.96 a bin. The District gets 10 cents a pound for the recycled plastic. Karini and Melham are due in court May 15."
11:01 < fenn> your tax dollars at work
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11:49 <@kanzure> re: project selection, it should be a general method that applies to probably most project selection situations
11:54 < delinquentme> say I wanted to expat to a country with a lively science community, cheap food + cheap living + non-geographically flat
11:55 < delinquentme> <fenn> if only they could make it less fun, then we could turn it into a pharmaceutical +1
11:55 < delinquentme> Oh and a big internet pipe
11:58 <@kanzure> china
12:10 <@kanzure> are you as cool as this? http://www.anime-evo.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/10.jpg
12:14 < ThomasEgi> what's this picture about? "guys,you goat to see this"?
12:16 <@kanzure> no idea
12:22 < fenn> delinquentme: finland
12:22 <@kanzure> no kidding
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12:29 < delinquentme> Finland.
12:29 < delinquentme> Nordic women as well. And they speak english huh?
12:31 < delinquentme> http://helsinki.en.craigslist.fi/search/apa?query=+
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12:41 < fenn> why can't i get a treemap of ram usage
12:55 < superkuh> http://juanpalomez.wordpress.com/2013/04/18/memory-usage-treemap-windirstat-for-memory/
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12:57 < superkuh> Oh. Nevermind. It is perl but windows requirements.
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13:07 < fenn> there are quite a few for windows but i haven't found anything for linux yet. basically i want gdmap for ram (even valgrind GUI is text based?)
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13:07 < delinquentme> it kind of pisses me off how much SV wants to hire people to be good little workers
13:08 < delinquentme> Sure I realized that I'm on the complete opposite of that spectrum ... but fuck man.  We REALLY want benign well behaved worker bees
13:08  * delinquentme le sad faces
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13:09 < fenn> there's nothing wrong with being a worker bee
13:09 < fenn> maybe you are in san jose
13:11 < fenn> delinquentme: do you ever go to science talks at UCSF/stanford/berkeley?
13:11 < delinquentme> fenn,  I've been to a few ORB talks
13:11 < fenn> what's ORB?
13:11 < delinquentme> and I didn't know those were open to the public
13:12 < delinquentme> OBR ** http://www.oxbridgebiotech.com/
13:12 < fenn> .title
13:12 < yoleaux> Home » Oxbridge Biotech Roundtable
13:12 < gradstudentbot> I think using the laser is making me sterile.
13:13 < delinquentme> fenn, sure but its just that given the right people... Businesses could expand in massive ways
13:13 < fenn> no, i meant science, not biotech business bullshit
13:13 < gradstudentbot> I forgot to make a control group.
13:13 < fenn> the sort of stuff gradstudentbot is doing
13:13 < gradstudentbot> Should this be on ice?
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13:18 < delinquentme> Like I just did an interview w watsi ... and I see it turning into a SOLID way to run clinical trials in 3rd world countries
13:19 < delinquentme> The data resolution is sufficient that we could overcome most of the falsificaiton of data
13:25 < catern> but delinquentme, that's soooo unethical! we must give the best possible care to everyone! no compromises!
13:25 < delinquentme> Biology of Aging Journal Club: Wednesdays, 1:00 PM, GH, S336A conference room. Hosted by Kenyon Lab.
13:28 < fenn> i wonder if mems stereolithography + silicone molds + polyurethane resin could make a high quality lego brick
13:29 < fenn> or even just machining wax
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13:32 < fenn> you could engrave your name on every stud
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13:59 < delinquentme> fenn, In working with integrated plasmonics there are a few things like that that I thought they could use their FIB for
13:59 < delinquentme> alt revenue streams
13:59 < delinquentme> Thought about tagging really expensive watches with watermarks
14:08 < fenn> umwhat you worked at integrated plasmonics? talk about a small world. i set up the zenbot cnc for emc2
14:09 < fenn> is it still the house with the ham radio maps in the kitchen?
14:09 < fenn> and the hot tub
14:10 < fenn> oh i guess kanzure was there once so maybe that's a connection
14:10 <@kanzure> nope i didn't introduce them
14:12 < delinquentme> emc2?
14:13 < delinquentme> they needed an application dev for internal tools
14:13 < delinquentme> also built out some http robotics for them
14:13 < fenn> what http robotics
14:14 < fenn> emc2 is a realtime linux machine controller, it runs the little engraving machine
14:14 < delinquentme> their FIB?
14:14 < fenn> no, a mechanical cutter
14:14 < delinquentme> OHHHHH
14:15 < delinquentme> the thing for scraping the lenses off the CMOS chips?
14:15 < fenn> right
14:15 < delinquentme> that thing was sitting on my desk for the longest time :D
14:15 < delinquentme> looked janky :D
14:15 < fenn> heh i figured it would get ignored
14:15 < delinquentme> but if it worked!
14:15 < chris_99> lenses on cmos chips? as in microlenses?
14:16 < fenn> chris_99: they were using modified camera chips as plasmonic sensors, the chips were in DIP packaging with a (plastic?) window
14:16 < chris_99> aha gotcha
14:16 < delinquentme> yeah I had worked on some cherrypy server API calls to run different color filters past their camera chips
14:18 < delinquentme> and troubleshooting USB drivers in gumstix SBCs .. ended up using a raspberrypi to control the steppers and run the server
14:18 < fenn> yeah gumstix sounds great until you have to actually use it
14:19 < delinquentme> Then wrote some software to sort out if we were getting different measurements per filter due to heating in the light train
14:20 < delinquentme> IDK it was cool sshing in remotely to check on a robot :D
14:20 < delinquentme> WHAT ARE YOU DOING RASPBERRYPI >> Bleep Bleep blat
14:21 < fenn> cool until some kid discovers your password is "raspberrypi"
14:21 <@kanzure> logging usually happens the other way: each machine pushes logs to a log collector
14:21 <@kanzure> and then some other service beautifies it up into graphs n' shit
14:22 <@kanzure> so that you can avoid ssh
14:22 <@kanzure> and the associated public key management headache
14:23 < fenn> puff piece about integrated plasmonics http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-07-26/social-plus-capital-the-league-of-extraordinarily-rich-gentlemen
14:26 <@kanzure> that url does not seem to fit your description
14:27 < fenn> well the first half of the article is about "palihapitiya invested in this cool startup" and the rest is about their VC club
14:28 < fenn> actually it's all about palihapitiya :\
14:34 < delinquentme> ^
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14:36 < delinquentme> So I sent badylack an email ( head of mcgowan regenerative @ pitt )
14:36 < delinquentme> well see if I get a response back
14:36 < delinquentme> 1) how to remove viral particles 2) why not use more voluminous organs than pig bladder for these applications
14:38 < delinquentme> I also think theres a huge market for cage raised pigs
14:38 < delinquentme> even if its gruesome
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14:39 < delinquentme> non-antibiotic to help heal the wounds the pigs get while caged ... and its a contained population so disease transfer could be minimized
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14:41 < delinquentme> but then I think for a moment and consider if we had controlled tools for writing out whole genomes w correct methylation .. then we'd probably have a big step towards a working anti-aging therapy
14:42 < delinquentme> Also whats a cool idea is attempting to recreate the micro / macro structure of bones for persistent haemopoiesis
14:43 < delinquentme> all of this shit needs to be done ... like right nao!
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15:07 <@kanzure> "This is a quick announcement that my new (5 months) DIYBio Group in San Diego is officially open for business. We are called THE WET LAB - A DIYBIO GROUP FOR ALGAE RESEARCH and are housed with generous support from Fab Lab. We meet weekly on Wednesday evenings.  Today we are focused on algae research but will expand as we grow. We have 50+ members to date.  Feel free to join our group HERE and find our Google Group where we are sharing ideas ...
15:08 <@kanzure> ... and research HERE.  We have great support from Biosurplus and are accumulating wet lab equipment.  We have another warehouse where we will set up a temporary wet lab to test equipment and get things organized so that we can do synbio experiments on algae in the next few months. FYI, today we are building bioreactors for growing algae, wiring sensors and electronics, teaching about algae and molecular biology, testing cells, and studying ...
15:08 <@kanzure> ... scientific papers."
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15:22 < delinquentme> also SIS " Small intestine submucosa"
15:22 < delinquentme> we're taking ecm from all these dirty ass part of the pig
15:23 < delinquentme> I really want to start a biotech called ' distributed biologics '
15:24 < delinquentme> give pig farmers equipment to make scaffolds n shit + get that social buy in for regenerative medicine
15:29 <@ParahSailin> http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-Quality-Bovine-Collagen_718324046.html?s=p
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15:37 < nsh> what's all this collagen for again?
15:38 <@ParahSailin> no idea
15:38 < nsh> k
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15:41 < delinquentme> nsh, collagen is part of it
15:41 < delinquentme> basically we've got a ton of different growth factors embedded in ECM as well as a number of structural proteins
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15:42 < delinquentme> ParahSailin, I could definitely sell it on alibaba ... but also I kind of want to monitor it
15:42 < nsh> what's the objective?
15:42 < delinquentme> easy to market biotech with inputs which could eventually be used in human applications
15:42 < delinquentme> easy to market because I can start with horses and pets ... and I've got responses from doctors interested
15:43 < nsh> kk
15:43 <@ParahSailin> people already extract and sell collagen on industrial scale
15:43 < delinquentme> human impact bc we're already doing research on it ... so I could develop the supply chain while research is being done
15:43 < delinquentme> Correct ParahSailin but they're also charging a ton
15:44 <@ParahSailin> $10/kg dry mass is not a lot at all
15:44 < delinquentme> The question is if I can do it cheaply.  Cleaning is the big question
15:44 < delinquentme> purification
15:44 < delinquentme> @_@
15:44 < delinquentme> no its not
15:44 < delinquentme> thats also just collagen
15:45 <@ParahSailin> the whole hog is $1/kg live, which includes like 90% water and bone
15:46 < delinquentme> Theres also a social movement aspect to giving farmers tools they can use to heal their animals
15:46 < delinquentme> its not a HUGE selling point ... but its one way to get groups of people involved w regen med
15:47 < delinquentme> ParahSailin, good find though... Im going to email these guys + see if they can do ECM
15:47 <@ParahSailin> this is what happens when you use a search engine
15:47 <@ParahSailin> you dont have to produce things that people are already producing at great economies of scale
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15:57 < delinquentme> ParahSailin,  I would have to know the explicit viral particles I'm trying to remove to clean those out ... right?
15:57 < fenn> i think caging pigs and giving them more antibiotics is going backwards
15:57 < delinquentme> This wouldn't just be some machine right?
15:58 < delinquentme> fenn, these aren't antibiotics :D
15:58 < delinquentme> thats the beauty of it
15:58 < FourFire> Old news probably, but: http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/182119-first-living-thing-with-alien-dna-created-in-the-lab-we-are-now-officially-playing-god
15:58 < fenn> oh "non-antibiotic" nm
15:58 < delinquentme> especially when you're deriving the ECM from within a population
15:58 < fenn> delinquentme: what about prions
15:58 <@kanzure> FourFire: -1000 points for listening to a news source that tells you that you're playing god
15:58 < FourFire> two new types of basepairs ...
15:59 < FourFire> kanzure, the title of the article is crap, the content is still interesting
15:59 < delinquentme> you dont like being god kanzure ?
15:59 <@ParahSailin> when i did a lab extracting collagen, i think we did salt precipitation
15:59 <@kanzure> FourFire: novel nucleotides have been done very often before
15:59 < delinquentme> fenn, good question.  I dont have an answer
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15:59 < FourFire> kanzure, they have?
15:59 < fenn> you could sell prions for economic warfare
16:00 < FourFire> it's the first I've heard of it
16:00 < FourFire> source?
16:00 < delinquentme> I mean I don't know how to separate out the desireables from the virii save for a suggestion from a orgo chemist to use capillary gel electrophoresis
16:00 <@kanzure> FourFire: there's tons, it's really hard not to find anything about artificial, novel nucleotides
16:00 < delinquentme> lol fenn  I've thought about the damage that can be done here ... its doesn't require much creativity :D
16:01 <@kanzure> FourFire: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%22artificial+nucleotide%22&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C44
16:01 < fenn> delinquentme: so you're doing protein purification basically right? but don't want to denature the proteins too much
16:01 < fenn> delinquentme: virall particles don't go less than 20nm so you can run the whole shebang through a guaranteed 20nm mechanical filter
16:02 < fenn> you will lose the collagen and other macromolecules with this approach
16:02 < fenn> macro-macromolecules
16:03 < FourFire> thanks, I thought I was getting too excited about it... I need to read more
16:04 < FourFire> actually, I need to read more from the correct sources, what do you recommend kanzure ?
16:04 < fenn> you might be able to dissolve your protein of interest in SDS or some other detergent, which would tear up the viroids, and since you're fractionating the different proteins they won't recombine
16:04 <@kanzure> i recommend never visiting "extremetech.com" again
16:04 < fenn> delinquentme: also you realize that VEGF in pigs is different from the same protein in humans right?
16:05 < FourFire> ok, that's a negative, I'm asking about a positive
16:05 <@kanzure> FourFire: believe it or not, that's a positive
16:05 <@kanzure> think of all the hours i've saved you now
16:05 < gradstudentbot> I hope they kick me out.
16:06 < fenn> mode +b gradstudentbot
16:06 < gradstudentbot> Who's in charge of the master mix?
16:06 < fenn> who's in charge here anyway!
16:07 < delinquentme> fenn, correct . we'll have homologues ... but also we're not sure if it matters
16:08 < delinquentme> erm. or we're not sure if its deleterious
16:09 < fenn> i'm pretty sure eli lilly wouldn't be a major company today if you could just use pig insulin
16:09 < delinquentme> fenn, I've never heard of fractionating
16:10 < fenn> fractionating is usually a term applied to centrifuging but in this case i mean separating with a gel
16:10 < FourFire> I'll now spend some time trying to increase the quality of content on that crappy subreddit
16:10 < delinquentme> Agree completely.  But to have a valuable product you don't need it to be perfect . Just good enough
16:10 < delinquentme> got it.
16:10 <@kanzure> who said anything about perfect
16:10 <@kanzure> i am trying to understand but it looks like you're strawmaning either me or someone else?
16:11 < delinquentme> So yeah we'll not get the benefits derived from VEGF ... but if there are more conserved growth factors we will
16:11 <@kanzure> who is "we"?
16:11 < fenn> that would be a good thing to look into before you go off on a pig blending crusade
16:11 < delinquentme> whoever is applying these. or me
16:11 < delinquentme> Yeah i've got my list of growth factors to check out.  But also separating those out will up the costs
16:12 < delinquentme> its naive to say, but ideally those can just be left in
16:12 < fenn> this is just to check if you have a business model at all
16:12 < delinquentme> prions though
16:12 < fenn> if none of your growth factors work, what's the point
16:12 < delinquentme> There is none.
16:12 < delinquentme> I mean you'd get some small benefit from more collagen maybe
16:13 < fenn> people already sell collagen
16:13 < delinquentme> fibronectin etc ... but
16:14 < delinquentme> sure but I'm saying if a product is delivered with non-interacting growth factors ... then the product won't be as effective as desireable
16:15 < fenn> i wonder if extruded remelted HDPE bags would make a good structural material
16:15 < fenn> then again so would bamboo
16:16 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.35.30] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:16 <@kanzure> is there a structural reason that bamboo requires so much water?
16:17 < fenn> does it require a lot of water?
16:17 < fenn> i thought it grew on mountains
16:17 < fenn> it certainly grows like crazy around here
16:19 < delinquentme> fenn you're bay area right?
16:19 < delinquentme> I want to fight someone w bamboo
16:19 < fenn> hah
16:19 < xmj> what about 30cm dildos?
16:19 < fenn> i had a great big pile of bamboo at langton, dunno if it's still there
16:19 < delinquentme> those grow like crazy here too ... castro
16:20 < delinquentme> I keep getting the invites -- havnt been down
16:20 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:20 < fenn> go do some recon for me
16:20 < fenn> bring your kinect and make a 3d map
16:21 < delinquentme> no have kinect
16:21 < delinquentme> but I know some kids @ berkeley who are doing work w monitoring respiration w kinects
16:21 < delinquentme> Also I learned that the kinect has been approved by the FDA for medical applications
16:21 < fenn> lame
16:22 < fenn> we're supposed to have hunter killer drones by now
16:23 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.35.30] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:23 < fenn> huh weird all the references are to existing military hardware
16:23 < fenn> http://terminator.wikia.com/wiki/HK-Aerial
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16:27 < fenn> http://wordlesstech.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Boeings-Phantom-Swift-X-Plane-22.jpg
16:28 < fenn> high endurance quadcopter/airplane UAV
16:32 <@ParahSailin> kanzure: requires lots of water because it has high metabolism
16:33 < delinquentme> fenn, there are also claims that a 3+1 "quadcopter" can also add efficiency to drones
16:34 <@ParahSailin> synchropter
16:35 <@kanzure> oh yeah, it grows more than 0.1 m/day
16:35 <@ParahSailin> well, thats usually when it has lots of sugars stored in rhizomes
16:36 < gradstudentbot> Don't mess with me, I'm a world pipetting champion 14 years running.
16:36 <@ParahSailin> but still its pretty effective with photosynthetic yield
16:38 < fenn> can you inject sugar into it to increase growth rate?
16:38 < delinquentme> counsyl pulls in another $28 mil
16:39 < delinquentme> those guys are kind of kicking ass
16:39 <@kanzure> fenn, not growing fast enough yet?
16:39 < delinquentme> kanzure, is gradstudentbot basically the hipster barrista of biotech?
16:39 < gradstudentbot> Man, if only I could biopsy his organs.
16:39 < delinquentme> LOL
16:39 <@kanzure> fenn: it looks like the other phases of bamboo are the important ones, like the 3-5 years of not doing any growing
16:39 < fenn> well sugar is cheap as fuck and easier to transport than bamboo
16:40 < fenn> it's the 3-5 years i want to skip
16:40 <@kanzure> skip by injecting sugar..?
16:40 < fenn> "t can reach its full height and width in a single three-four month growing season"
16:41 < fenn> that sounds pretty good, but 5 years does not
16:41 <@kanzure> i'm not sure if full height is the only property though, maybe there's some other biochemical effects that matter?
16:41 < fenn> density, rigidity are important
16:41 <@kanzure> why do you need 10 meter bamboo anyway? what about just lots of 1 meter bamboo?
16:41 < fenn> young bamboo looks pretty good to me tho
16:41 < fenn> bamboo doesn't grow 1 meter
16:42 <@kanzure> well presumably less height will take less time
16:42 < fenn> anyway, the longer it is the easier to process
16:43 < fenn> also longer stalks are generally thicker, and vice versa
16:44 <@kanzure> but yes i see what you want- some bamboo extrusion factory
16:44 <@kanzure> that takes in sugar and uh, dirt, and uh, fertilizer, and poops out bamboo
16:44 < fenn> "n the standard life cycle of bamboo, fungus and mold begin to develop on the outer culm within the first five to seven years of its life. Within the decade, the fungus and mold will overtake the bamboo, causing it to collapse in on itself. For this reason, harvesting bamboo for construction, flooring, or furniture is best completed after full maturity at age 3, until about age 7" i dont really
16:44 < fenn> get that, why wait until its full of mold to harvest?
16:47 < fenn> so it should be possible to extrude a variety of fibrous materials as tubes/rods with polymers as the binder
16:47 < fenn> i have some fiberglass tent poles that are fantastically rigid
16:47 < fenn> a combination of fiberglass and cellulose would be rigid but also tough, since the fiberglass strands would break first as the cellulose takes up the load
16:48 < fenn> (i have these tent poles probably because one of them broke in the wind)
16:49 < fenn> some of them have polyethylene sleeves which would at least contain the fibers after breaking
16:50 < fenn> polyethylene/cellulose cloth would make a good flat surface covering
16:50 < fenn> you'd combine these two as a sort of translucent quonset hut or geodesic dome
16:50 < delinquentme> How does one go about verifying that what I'm sent from a chinese supplier is actually pig derived ECM ?
16:51 < delinquentme> Is this like an effload of analytical machines?
16:51 < fenn> delinquentme: use a plasmonic sensor with anti-ECM antibodies, duh!
16:51 < delinquentme> lolololol
16:51 < fenn> eh you could do mass spec
16:51 <@ParahSailin> simple elisa
16:52 < fenn> assuming you can get the antibodies for elisa
16:53 < fenn> i mean that's just another thing you need to verify
16:53 < gradstudentbot> I really like him, but some of his work is really problematic.
16:53 < delinquentme> I could hit up one of these labs who are doing the work w ECM ... as im sure they'd have all the tools
16:55 < delinquentme> aside: Cheap light, semi-ergo chairs?
16:55 < fenn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_textiles  i have a bamboo washcloth and it's badass, dries quickly, feels nice, doesn't stink
16:55 < fenn> delinquentme: ikea poang
16:55 <@ParahSailin> bamboo textiles is just rayon
16:56 < fenn> i thought so
16:56 <@ParahSailin> sourced from bamboo cellulose
16:56 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@147.69.35.30] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:56 < fenn> it's still nice
16:56 <@ParahSailin> rayon is nice
16:58 < fenn> alternative manufacturing process "the woody part of the bamboo is crushed mechanically before a natural enzyme retting and washing process is used to break down the walls and extract the bamboo fibre. This bast fibre is then spun into yarn.  Bamboo fabric made from this process is sometimes called bamboo linen."
16:59 < fenn> if you have a bunch of branches left over, this would be a good use for it
17:04 < fenn> moso bamboo "is the most common species used in the bamboo textile industry of China. Its physical properties boast an average breaking tenacity more than three times that of cotton, wool, rayon, or polyester"
17:05 < fenn>  "raw bamboo fabric lets almost all damaging UV radiation pass through and reach the skin"
17:08 < fenn> "Very little bamboo is irrigated and there is sound evidence that the water-use efficiency of bamboo is twice that of trees."
17:10 < delinquentme> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlpPXp49d8k << kanzure   listen to it for 3 seconds
17:10 < fenn> a bamboo polyethylene airplane would be doable i think
17:10 < fenn> tyvek is also ridiculously strong
17:10 < fenn> tyvek = randomly oriented polyethylene fiber
17:12 < fenn> there is a bunch of bamboo that got knocked over in a windstorm near here, maybe i should go get it
17:13 <@kanzure> .title
17:13 < yoleaux> Woe, Is Me - Vengeance (Live Video)
17:14 < gradstudentbot> I haven't seen my PI in like a week.
17:20 < delinquentme> kanzure, this too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhBONyHQcRc
17:20 -!- strangewarp_ is now known as strangewarp
17:20 < delinquentme> screamy, saturated, mean
17:32 <@kanzure>  "The major accomplishment of the paper referenced in the original article is that they demonstrated the feasibility of unnatural bases in vivo. The work in the Yang, et. al. paper occurred in vitro, whereas the Malyshev paper was in an E. coli system. Malyshev, et al. noticed that the unnatural bases were being degraded in the space between inner and outer cell membranes (periplasm), so they added a membrane transport protein to import the ...
17:32 <@kanzure> ... unnatural bases into the cell. From there, the E. coli was able to incorporate the unnatural bases into replicates of an introduced DNA segment (plasmid) using its endogenous replication machinery. They also demonstrated that the unnatural bases were not a hinderance to growth, and they they were not excised by the DNA repair enzymes."
17:32 <@kanzure> "There have been other papers demonstrating the use of unnatural bases in various cases in vitro (some cited in the paper), but this is notable because it is a thorough example of use in vivo. Peter Schultz has done similar work, as well as exciting work on unnatural bases in tRNA. The bases in the Yang paper and those in the Malyshev paper both exhibit Watson-Crick bonding geometry, and pair by hydrogen bonding. One distinction of those ...
17:32 <@kanzure> ... mentioned in the Malyshev paper is the presence of a sulfur substituent, though there is no mention of its participation in the bond."
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17:37 <@kanzure> .t https://twitter.com/ethereumcharles/status/463794004492951552
17:37 < yoleaux> kanzure: Sorry, I don't know a timezone by that name.
17:37 <@kanzure> .title https://twitter.com/ethereumcharles/status/463794004492951552
17:37 < yoleaux> kanzure: Sorry, that command (.title) crashed.
17:37 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:37 <@kanzure> fuck it, "We'd like to welcome Dr. Ralph Merkle to the Ethereum team assisting us with the hard problems of the cryptocurrency world"
17:38 < delinquentme> what the fuark
17:39 < delinquentme> yeahh ok I saw a talk by him on the latter
17:47 < delinquentme> paperbot, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15157928
17:47 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1016%2Fj.trim.2003.12.016
18:11 < delinquentme> A thought: perhaps the reason that intestines + bladders are used is that they're pretty homogenous tissue types ... so correspondingly the ECM should be pretty similar as well
18:12 < delinquentme> but that might be invalidated by the fact that we regrow muscle tissue using bladder derived ECM
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18:13 < fenn> better cryptocurrency than singularity university stuff
18:14 <@kanzure> ethereum has its own set of issues that it will have to fix
18:15 <@kanzure> possibly just as bad as the singularity university infighting
18:15 <@kanzure> the level of infighting associated with singularity university is truly pathetic
18:15 <@kanzure> and sickening
18:15 < fenn> well, i just disagree with their whole mission in general
18:15 <@kanzure> selling lectures?
18:15 < fenn> overpriced lectures
18:16 <@kanzure> bill clinton gets paid at least $30,000/hour to do talks. is that also bad?
18:16 < fenn> how about, you know, DOING stuff
18:16 < delinquentme> BAM!!!!!!!!!
18:16 < delinquentme> In one such study, the infrarenal aorta (5.0 cm length)
18:16 < delinquentme> was replaced in 13 dogs with porcine derived SIS w27x.
18:16 < delinquentme> All 13 dogs maintained patent grafts until the time of
18:16 < delinquentme> euthanasia, which ranged from 4 days to 8 years after
18:16 < delinquentme> surgery. T
18:16 < delinquentme> fuck yes thats good news
18:16 < fenn> so you can sell to vets
18:16 <@kanzure> "Clinton received $10.7 million for 52 paid speaking engagements last year, a sizable increase from the 36 paid speeches he delivered in 2009 for a total of $7.5 million. "
18:17 < delinquentme> fenn,  ^_^
18:17 <@kanzure> okay, $205k/engagement
18:17 < fenn> is there a "pet food and vet administration"
18:17 -!- Simurg [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
18:17 < delinquentme> also I have a really simple method for doing some trials ... as there are sufficient doctors who volunteer service to homeless animals
18:18 < delinquentme> except this scales wayyyy better than their macro suture process
18:18 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, but his project was so easy.
18:18 <@kanzure> sheena: ping.. 16:17 < fenn> is there a "pet food and vet administration"
18:18 < fenn> i was kidding
18:18 <@kanzure> what's the point of having experts if you don't use them
18:19 < fenn> i think both functions are performed by the FDA
18:20 < delinquentme> Whaa? fenn the FDA cares about vet applications?
18:20 < delinquentme> that'd be a big fat TIL
18:21 < fenn> http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/default.htm
18:21 < fenn> some parts of it might be USDA
18:22 < fenn> i think that's more about how to kill animals though
18:23 -!- entelechios [~elysium@186.176.21.172] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:23 -!- entelechios is now known as entelechy
18:24 < fenn> Tillers International teaches classes on farming with animal power, blacksmithing, wood-working, and many more traditional skills at their learning centers in Scotts, Michigan and Mozambique. http://www.tillerinternational.org
18:24 < fenn> i know someone who lives there, from a long time ago
18:25 < fenn> i wonder if they'd consider earth bag construction "traditional" enough
18:26 < fenn> http://www.tillersinternational.org
18:26 < fenn> "to preserve, study, and exchange low-capital technologies" sounds relevant
18:27 <@kanzure> we should give up tech things and form a retro skateboarding team
18:27 < fenn> i wonder where vinay gupta is
18:28 < fenn> or does he just do the bill clinton talk circuit
18:29 < fenn> dammit xentrac
18:30 < fenn> anyway, i've been thinking about detroit
18:30 <@kanzure> i am completely unsure about how serious i was
18:30 < fenn> is it really that much cheaper than, say, somewhere along the sacramento river?
18:31 <@kanzure> cheapness is not the main interesting property of the uh.. properties.
18:31 < fenn> factoring in the arctic winters and remoteness and lack of interesting people (unverified, check this assertion)
18:31 <@kanzure> only reason i would bother would be excess cheaply easily accessed equipment
18:31 <@kanzure> but you can use the same argument to move to china
18:31 < fenn> that's also something i've considered
18:31 < delinquentme> fenn, you're thinking about moving to detroit??
18:32 < delinquentme> I'd consider china
18:32 <@kanzure> pls try to follow along -_-
18:32 <@kanzure> i don't think he has made any commitments
18:32 <@kanzure> look at the messages. it's all there.
18:32 < fenn> i haven't even looked on zillow
18:33 < fenn> supposedly you can buy a house for $1k
18:33 < fenn> not that i really want a house
18:33 <@kanzure> property taxes are the sleeping giant killer there
18:33 < fenn> but a strip farm next to a body of water connected to the ocean, that's interesting
18:33 <@kanzure> and backtaxes
18:33 < entelechy> there was this grand kickstarter scheme not so long ago which wanted to buy a huge part of delerict detroit and turn it into some kind of zombie-themed game
18:33 < delinquentme> Just electricity, people, utilities and a big fat internet pipeline
18:33 < entelechy> it didn't come through
18:34 < QuantumG> damn
18:34 < QuantumG> Detroit is already full of the walking dead too.
18:34 < entelechy> i think you should purchase a private island
18:34 < entelechy> http://www.privateislandsonline.com/
18:35 <@kanzure> a private island doesn't give you direct access to all the fancypants equipment you need
18:35 < entelechy> nah but if you build a floatplane hangar on it you can just get shit flown in
18:35 < fenn> those islands are all 3 orders of magnitude too expensive
18:35 < entelechy> http://www.privateislandsonline.com//islands?keywords=panama
18:35 < entelechy> try cheaper countries
18:35 < gradstudentbot> Whatever, I'm really dating school anyway.
18:36 < entelechy> i'd totally do this if it wasn't for having to rely on satellite internet which cuts out when the clouds get thick nuff
18:36 < fenn> also, they're even further away from interesting people
18:36 < fenn> i might as well go to the north pole
18:36 < fenn> or siberia
18:36 < entelechy> i've met some interesting people from siberia
18:36 < QuantumG> well, you said it
18:37 < fenn> i don't want to invest in development that's dependent on surplus equipment
18:37 < entelechy> you got your plan in mind
18:37 < fenn> infrastructure is ok because that's a commodity
18:38 <@kanzure> i'm somewhat from siberia, if it counts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS_dGgRQGRo
18:38 < QuantumG> you know the answer? Blimp housing! What were we talking about again?
18:38 < entelechy> man the only soviet movie i can think of off the top of my head that ive watched was 'kindzadza', now that one was funny
18:39 < fenn> QuantumG: this is what i have open right now in my browser http://wordlesstech.com/2013/06/28/aether-luxury-cruise-airship-concept-by-mac-byers/
18:39 < fenn> a little bit large for a first project though
18:39 <@kanzure> first?
18:39 < QuantumG> wow, creepy.. I just picked two words out of the air (so to speak), I honestly thought you were talking about seasteading or something
18:39 < fenn> ugh i have such a crap bookmark system
18:40 < QuantumG> the first 10 hits for "blimp housing" on Google having nothing to do with "housing" in the a-place-to-live sense.
18:41 < QuantumG> and there's only 3,520 results
18:42 < entelechy> actually if i could live in any kind of unconventional housing unit it'd have to be something from treehotel.se
18:42 < entelechy> http://www.treehotel.se/?pg=mirrorcube
18:42 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: why aren't you living in china?
18:42 < entelechy> like this
18:42 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-76-167-105-53.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:42 <@kanzure> yashgaroth: we're going to china, pack your bags i'll pick you up at 2am
18:43 < yashgaroth> k
18:43 < QuantumG> 1. tether a big blimp in silicon valley
18:43 < QuantumG> 2. rent rooms
18:43 < QuantumG> 3. Profit!
18:43 < fenn> QuantumG: i am sort of talking about seasteading, in the sense that i want to build self-sufficient colonies for research and development of more such colonies
18:43 < QuantumG> (oh the huge manatee)
18:44 < fenn> i think environmentally powered sea vehicles will be a large part of the future of transport
18:44 < fenn> wind, sun, wave power
18:44 < entelechy> i think the us navy did something where they convert seawater into hydrogen fuel
18:44 < entelechy> i'm not sure how efficient it is or if its just some dumb hype but
18:44 < gradstudentbot> Where's my pellets?
18:44 < fenn> sounds like dumb hype
18:45 < entelechy> here's a dumb hype discovermag article
18:45 < entelechy> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-brief/2014/04/08/u-s-navy-can-convert-seawater-fuel/
18:45 < fenn> ok i don't give a shit
18:45 < entelechy> ahahaha its reporting on it as if they did it with a real ship
18:45 < entelechy> this is just a scale model
18:45 < entelechy> http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=80171
18:46 < entelechy> ah wait they mention it being a model. well. anyways.
18:46 < fenn> wait, is this from nuclear power?
18:46 < entelechy> nah catalytic conversion of seawater into hydrogen
18:46 < fenn> wrong, read the fucking article
18:47 < fenn> "a specialized catalytic converter that transforms carbon dioxide and hydrogen from seawater into a liquid hydrocarbon fuel"
18:47 < fenn> key phrase being "hydrogen from seawater"
18:47 < fenn> seawater is not hydrogen
18:47 < entelechy> no, they split it somehow
18:47 < fenn> yes, with a nuclear reactor
18:47 < entelechy> where's that part
18:48 < fenn> "This is really for Nuclear Powered Aircraft Carriers – They can produce fuel for the aircraft, removing a huge dependency on tankers. That is why the test was with a model airplane."
18:48 < QuantumG> heh
18:48 < entelechy> ahhhhhh yeah
18:48 < fenn> it wasn't in the article, because the article is crap
18:48 < entelechy> no dobut
18:48 < QuantumG> so yeah, floating apartments in silicon valley, there's your billion dollar company.
18:48 < fenn> i dont want to build apartments, apartments are stupid
18:48 < entelechy> i want an ewok village
18:49 < QuantumG> you don't wanna do anything, slacker
18:49 < fenn> that hurts, it really does
18:49 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:49 < QuantumG> heh
18:49 < entelechy> i want this ssh access on an ip i cant reach and this damn virtual machine to start working properly so i can get some work done tonight
18:49 < entelechy> damn everything crapping out at once every time
18:51 < fenn> QuantumG: google got fined bigtime because they did construction on their barge without being docked to a wharf
18:52 < fenn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_barges
18:52 < fenn> maybe i should just camp out on that
18:52 < entelechy> anyone have any thoughts on google's project loon
18:53 < entelechy> http://www.google.com/loon/
18:53 < fenn> seems like a good idea
18:54 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:54 < fenn> this guy looks familiar http://www.devaul.net/
18:55 < entelechy> he looks like at least 3 friends of mine
18:55 < fenn> heh yeah the reformed type 1 sysadmin
18:55 <@ParahSailin> kanzure: horribly polluted
18:56 < entelechy> lol they got types of sysadmins somewhere? or is that just some jokes you made up on the spot
18:56 < FourFire> "<fenn> not that i really want a house" get a yurt
18:57 < entelechy> fuck yurts get a mirrorcube
18:58 < fenn> yes thank you for the redundant input
18:58 < fenn> does anyone know what the personal airship house was called?
18:59 < entelechy> https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=airship%20house
18:59 < entelechy> seems like at least one here
18:59 < fenn> entelechy: really man, i know how to use google
19:00 < entelechy> thank you for the vague question then :P
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19:00 < FourFire> "<entelechy> i think the us navy did something where they convert seawater into hydrogen fuel" jet fuel, even
19:00 < FourFire> using their nuclear reactor-powered aircraft-carriers
19:00 < entelechy> yeah i didnt read the actual article until just a bit ago
19:01 < entelechy> i like that plasma arc gasification to turn garbage into syngas project
19:01 < entelechy> www.plascoenergygroup.com
19:01 < entelechy> http://www.plascoenergygroup.com for all you with shitty link parsers
19:01 < FourFire> floating yurts!
19:01 < entelechy> mirroryurtships
19:01 < entelechy> that'll freak the people out
19:03 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=fa98d738 Fernando Borretti: Import part of the molecular manufacturing article from the Transhumani wiki: Overview, History, and Mechanosythesis sections with references >> 
19:03 < FourFire> "<entelechy> anyone have any thoughts on google's project loon" if it works, great
19:03 < FourFire> else, meh
19:04 < gradstudentbot> Do I use a one or two sided t-test for that?
19:04 < entelechy> yeah it seems like a pretty flighty plan with a goofy ass name like htat
19:04 < entelechy> *that
19:04 < FourFire> what is a mirrorcube?
19:04 < fenn> yeah who would invest in a company named "google"
19:04 < FourFire> entelechy, link me?
19:05 < fenn> FourFire: it's a cube, with mirrors on it
19:05 < entelechy> http://www.treehotel.se/?pg=mirrorcube << mirrorcube
19:05 < entelechy> it's something you can live in
19:05 < entelechy> and to freak out trespassing trippers
19:05 < FourFire> that would freak people out lol
19:05 < entelechy> it would be like stumbling upon the monolith from 2001: a space oddesey or something
19:06 < entelechy> next thing you know your monkey ass friend is clubbing you in the head and you're done.
19:06 < fenn> the mirrors are camouflage? but the kind of camouflage that can accidentally signal your position to hundreds of miles away
19:06 < entelechy> nah its more just a cool place to live in
19:06 < gradstudentbot> Still haven't cured cancer.
19:06 < entelechy> not camoflage
19:06 < fenn> i saw it on a "doomsday preppers" show, maybe they were confused
19:06 < entelechy> they figured out how to get it so that birds dont crash into it and die too
19:06 < entelechy>  To prevent birds from flying into the mirrored walls, they have been clad with infrared film. The colour is invisible to humans, but visible to the birds.
19:07 < fenn> why am i talking to you
19:07 < FourFire> it's a hotel in sweden
19:07 < entelechy> nah you can order one to wherever in the world
19:07 < FourFire> cool stuff
19:08 < entelechy> indeed it is
19:08 < FourFire> floatingmirrorcubes is what I want now
19:08 < entelechy> floatingmirrcubeships
19:09 <@kanzure>  /kick 4entelry
19:10 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=3b8c6d6a Fernando Borretti: Add a whole bunch of links to the molecular manufacturing article >> 
19:10 < FourFire> I wonder how the mirror surface erodes over time
19:10 < FourFire> like, say a year
19:10 < entelechy> me too, i'm sure after a decade you'd be like 'fuck why did i get that thing'
19:11 < FourFire> if the infrared coating could also be covered by clear hydrophobic surface it could be good
19:11 < entelechy> kinda like those people who invested in leaky geodesic domes in the 70s thinking buckminster fullers ideas would save the world
19:11 < fenn> the domes from the 70s were not designed by buckminster fuller and ignored 90% of what he said
19:11 < entelechy> really? that's interesting
19:12 < entelechy> no surprise though
19:12 < entelechy> people were lazy stoned hippies back then
19:12 < fenn> the best dome design i've seen is the pillowdome made by new alchemy institute
19:12 < fenn> it was CO2/argon inflated tefzel film and aluminum frame (i think)
19:13 < entelechy> damn that thing is cool
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19:13 < fenn> it was abandoned for 30 years but, except for a few tree branches that had poked through, still in good condition
19:14 < fenn> the cornwall eden project is similar
19:15 < entelechy> they made it to admit UV light in which takes care of mold
19:15 < entelechy> cool
19:15 < entelechy> glad to see this idea is viable
19:16 < entelechy> doubt the mirrorcube has these things covered
19:16 < entelechy> lol
19:16 < entelechy> the moldy mistakecube
19:16 < fenn> UV light is a double edged sword
19:17 < fenn> it will kill mold, but also makes plastics brittle, bleaches colors, and you get a sunburn obviously
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19:18 < entelechy> there any other unconventional geometric constructions you know about which have a decent element of practicality?
19:18 < fenn> tefzel is too expensive to use as a building material but "10 year" hindered amine light stabilized polyethylene greenhouse film should do just fine, at a fraction of the cost
19:18 < fenn> hexayurt is the standard open source housing design of the day
19:19 < fenn> steel quonset hut is used by millions of farmers
19:19 < fenn> we also make 'monkeyhuts' for burning man, which is similar to a row greenhouse
19:19 < entelechy> ah yeah those things at burning man
19:19 < entelechy> nice nice
19:20 < entelechy> so lemme guess you're mr.gupta?
19:20 < fenn> heh no
19:20 < fenn> i've met him a couple times
19:20 < fenn> we are pretty similar in personality though
19:20 < entelechy> aye
19:20 < entelechy> i just heard his name mentioned in here earlier and thought people were cracking jokes
19:21 < fenn> i was cursing xentrac for not being here, because he has worked with gupta and probably knows where he is at
19:22 < fenn> .title http://www.shelter-systems.com/gro-row.html
19:22 < yoleaux> Portable Row Cover Greenhouse
19:22 < fenn> there is a science to making unflappable membrane structures
19:22 < entelechy> oh crazy i seen those before
19:23 < fenn> i like their geodesic frame but i don't think the shape of the plastic is right
19:23 < entelechy> seems like itd trap moisture in an undesireable way somehow
19:24 < fenn> plastic flapping in the wind breaks from fatigue in short order
19:24 < entelechy> yeah i seen these back in british columbia
19:24 < entelechy> wont say wher
19:24  * entelechy shifts eyes
19:24 < entelechy> but they left an impression
19:25 < fenn> well a monkey hut is the same thing but with recycled billboard fabric over the poles
19:25 < entelechy> and i guess that improves multiple resistance factors right
19:26 < fenn> please restate the question
19:26 < entelechy> i'll totally restate it. what benefit does what you just mentioned confer exactly?
19:27 < fenn> shade, flapping resistance, easier to tie down
19:27 < fenn> billboard tarps have channels sewn in the edges you can run a rope through
19:28 < fenn> they are pretty heavy and smell bad tho
19:28 < fenn> i've also used just a plain silver tarp
19:28 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=64633749 Fernando Borretti: Add links and descriptions of a bunch of molecular nano books >> 
19:28 < fenn> tarps tear easily since they are thin and made of a single material
19:29 < entelechy> right
19:30 <@kanzure> eudoxia: you could just make a db dump and convert to git instead of manually dumping
19:30 < fenn> entelechy: http://n55.dk/MANUALS/SPACEFRAME/spaceframe.html http://n55.dk/MANUALS/SNAIL_SHELL_SYSTEM/SSS.html http://n55.dk/MANUALS/DYNAMIC_CHAIR/CHAIR.html http://n55.dk/MANUALS/BED_MODULES/BED.html
19:31 < fenn> oh yeah this is cute too http://n55.dk/MANUALS/FLOAT_PLAT/FLOAT_PLAT.html
19:31 < eudoxia> kanzure: i'm using this as an opportunity to sort and fix things a little
19:31 < entelechy> damn! thanks for the links fenn :)
19:31 < eudoxia> oh i remember that from that talk you gave about skdb
19:31 < eudoxia> well most of these links actually
19:32 < fenn> maybe i should just go to denmark
19:32 < entelechy> http://n55.dk/MANUALS/DYNAMIC_CHAIR/CHAIR.html
19:32 < entelechy> i'd say this chair sucks for not having a back but i've been sitting at a bar on a stool for the past 2 hours
19:32 < fenn> i used to have a yoga ball as my computer chair
19:33 <@kanzure> http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/blogs/wiredenterprise/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/gox-screen.jpg
19:34 < fenn> i also like the kneeling computer chairs; you could make one with this building technology
19:34 < eudoxia> i'm having trouble identifying what is real in that picture
19:34 < fenn> it's all real
19:35 < entelechy> hahaha fucking mt gox, me and my buddy were calling mark karpeles an 'untrustworthy cheeseblock eater' before everything crapped itself
19:35 < fenn> someone denoised the image and then rescaled it
19:36 < fenn> i dunno what's up with the pixellation on his hand
19:36 <@kanzure> motion blur from bouncing
19:36 < entelechy> buddy of mine just got exclusive reuters/AP distribution on all cryptocurrency-related news
19:36 < eudoxia> hahaha
19:36 < fenn> the bouncing bitcoin butt bubble burst
19:36 < entelechy> the pixellation on his hand is from eating too many blockchains of cheese
19:36 < entelechy> it causes pixellated fat growths that can't be cured
19:36 <@kanzure> karpeles' idiocy isn't because he's chubby
19:37 < entelechy> oh no of course not
19:37 < entelechy> i'm a pretty fat guy myself
19:37 <@kanzure> then why bother mentioning cheese
19:37 < entelechy> because 'cheeseblock eater' is a hilarious term
19:37 < fenn> i prefer my cheese in block form
19:37 <@kanzure> um, but the reality of his mental issues are way more hillarious than just saying "cheese"
19:37 < eudoxia> the blockchain of cheese joke reminds me of that dogecoin comic where proof of stake is a doge holding a steak
19:37 < eudoxia> it's kinda cute
19:37 < entelechy> that's something i can agree with kanzure
19:37 <@kanzure> all you stupid redditors remind me of this: http://xkcd.com/1210/
19:38 <@kanzure> .title
19:38 < yoleaux> xkcd: I'm So Random
19:38 < fenn> "PHP Developer working on some weird stuff, like a mail server (POP3/IMAP4/SMTP) written in PHP" hmm..
19:38 < entelechy> lol
19:38 <@kanzure> fenn: that's the least hilarious
19:38 <@kanzure> fenn: what about that php ssh server
19:38 < fenn> ugh
19:38 <@kanzure> fenn: or how he had no employees
19:38 <@kanzure> and no balance sheet
19:38 < fenn> so it was all pure network effects?
19:38 <@kanzure> or audits
19:39 < fenn> like, why would people keep their money there?
19:39 < fenn> also, why would people keep their money in an "exchange"
19:39 <@kanzure> bitcoin is a surprisingly alien technology
19:39 <@kanzure> it doesn't work like any other technology that people have used before
19:39 <@kanzure> so a website seems like a sane thing to try to use, because you've always had to use a website for everything else in the past
19:39 < entelechy> i saw some supposed code leak and i was laughing pretty hard at it
19:40 <@kanzure> all you need to know about karpeles is http://web.archive.org/web/20020121050728/http://www.pokemon-noir.com/
19:40 < fenn> but everyone who got on the bitcoin train early knew about all this, so the followers should have at least known by reading what the first people wrote?
19:40 <@kanzure> this is around the time he was learning php
19:40 <@kanzure> fenn: no, some people are just given bitcoins
19:40 < entelechy> yeah kanzure his weeabooness is laughable too
19:41 <@kanzure> so given all this fodder, why the fuck would you make jokes about cheese
19:41 < gradstudentbot> Are you published?
19:41 < eudoxia> who the hell moves to japan just for being a weeaboo
19:41 < eudoxia> god just watch anime like normal people
19:41 <@kanzure> he moved to japan for a few other reasons besides that
19:41 < entelechy> karpeles would do shit like piss off everyone on his team by insisting on editing shit in production and not telling anyone at all
19:41 <@kanzure> he didn't really have a team
19:41 <@kanzure> there was only production
19:42 < entelechy> ouch
19:42 < entelechy> we were making jokes about cheeseblock eating cause of some inside joke stuff really
19:42 < eudoxia> it really puts my daily "why isn't this on vagrant and ansible" whining into perspective
19:42 < entelechy> apologies for not sharing your sense of humour
19:43 < entelechy> was there any business reasons for running shit out of tokyo?
19:43 < entelechy> i mean i went to japan as a kid for school
19:43 < entelechy> i would -not- want to live there
19:43 < fenn> i hate when popular software projects are named after other cool things
19:43 <@kanzure> tasteful joke might be osmething like, "so what are they serving in his bitcoin cafe? php soup and spaghetti?"
19:43 < fenn> or just generic objects like "celery"
19:43 < entelechy> you have people joking to you in your face as if youre too stupid to understand japanese about how white people smell like hamburger and milk
19:43 < entelechy> which i admit is funny but
19:43 <@kanzure> "cheese! randomness! hahahaha" is not a snese of humor
19:44 < entelechy> even funnier when you call the kids doing that out on it and they get that scared asian look on their face and get off at the next stop
19:44 <@kanzure> *sense
19:44 <@kanzure> *something
19:44 < eudoxia> >After a brief, unsuccessful attempt to set up a server company in Israel - "the electricity grid was bombed and the power was out for days," she recalled - Karpeles joined a software distribution firm called Nexway, was promoted and, in 2009, was offered a post in Japan.
19:44 < gradstudentbot> Are you published?
19:44 < entelechy> karpeles out of japanese jail in 20yrs: http://1.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/45/76/00454719bbc0d85f28945a87cea61533-merka-lady-consumes-entire-block-of-cheese.jpg
19:44 <@kanzure> what is this about being published all of the sudden
19:44 <@kanzure> he seems to be very concerned about that today
19:45 < fenn> publish or perish, the law of the academic jungle
19:46 < fenn> maybe it's mating season
19:46 < entelechy> kanzure, i appreciate that you got a sense of wit rather than humour here, but eh, guess my tolerance for finding things funny is way lower than yours, i don't know who enjoys it more but i'm just sitting here lol'ing at most things
19:46 < entelechy> it's pretty enjoyable
19:46 <@kanzure> i don't care, fuck off
19:46 < entelechy> neh
19:47 < fenn> eudoxia: did ansible exist ~2 years ago?
19:47 < eudoxia> fenn: i think so
19:49 < fenn> so "enders game" the movie kinda ruins the whole story for anyone, since the whole point was you didn't know he was actually fighting aliens until the very end
19:49 < eudoxia> 2012-02-23
19:49 < fenn> ok no wonder i haven't heard of it
19:50 < fenn> wait what? $30/year per node? wtf
19:51 < entelechy> vagrant is screwing up on me right now
19:51 < entelechy> its not going past the GRUB menu
19:51 < entelechy> so i gotta do it manually thru runnig it via GUI
19:51 < eudoxia> that sometimes happens when i update and end up with a bunch of different kernel versions for vagrant to choose from
19:52 < entelechy> hmm dont think thats happened in between the time it was working hunky dory and now
19:52 < catern> hey hey you guys are using vagrant
19:52 < catern> why?
19:52 < catern> what's the point of it
19:52 < entelechy> catern: right now because it was the fastest way to get a working dev environment for a project someone got ahold of me to work on again after a year of not working on it
19:52 < entelechy> it was literally as easy as this
19:52 < entelechy> https://github.com/Crisu83/yii-app
19:53 <@kanzure> you can also just use vservers or lxc containers
19:53 < entelechy> but otherwise it's great for working in a team where you wanna make sure everyones dev environments are homogeneous
19:53 <@kanzure> you could also use a chroot
19:53 < fenn> yeah i dont see the point of depending on some web startup to exist just so you can run a vserver
19:53 < catern> no-one uses vservers anymore kanzure
19:54 <@kanzure> diyhpl.us is one giant honking vserver
19:54 < entelechy> true, but how easy is it to provision everything through puppet and stuff on those vs vagrant
19:54 <@kanzure> puppet is silly anyway
19:54 < eudoxia> ansible != the company that started around it
19:54 < entelechy> other devs i work with arent sharpest tools in the shed
19:54 < entelechy> so it helps
19:54 < fenn> eudoxia: please explain
19:54 <@kanzure> you saw it on reddit and that's why you like it
19:54 < catern> well everyone else is using OpenVZr, LXC or full hardware virtualization
19:54 < catern> openvz*
19:54 < entelechy> lol i'm in the 'fuck reddit' camp for sure
19:55 < fenn> eudoxia: what is the $2500 "no tech support" option for?
19:55 < entelechy> i think you hounded me for linking something from there one time and have assumed i waste time there ever since
19:55 < eudoxia> fenn: ansible is just a program to run stuff on servers (or local vagrant machines) and stuff, i don't know what you were looking at. ansible guru/services?
19:55 < entelechy> but let me get ahead of you, 'all time on reddit is a waste'
19:55 < eudoxia> s/program/open source program
19:55 < fenn> eudoxia: the front page of ansible.com
19:56 < fenn> er, http://www.ansible.com/pricing
19:56 < eudoxia> fenn: that's just some bullshit services michael dehaan built around his program
19:56 < entelechy> plus i arrived at this company who purchased a VMware license
19:56 < eudoxia> ansible is free and open source
19:56 < entelechy> and i was basically like 'how do i manage this the most cleanly'
19:56 < entelechy> LXC/docker looks like it could do the same sort of thing though
19:57 < entelechy> i just haven't had the chance to use it at all yet
19:57 < eudoxia> vagrant can use docker as a backend
19:57 < catern> I just don't see the point of using different tools for deploying your local dev environment and deploying a server
19:57 < entelechy> no doubt
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19:58 < fenn> catern: dynamically scaling up a full ubuntu install wastes time and cpu
19:58 <@kanzure> who said anything about a full install though
19:59 < fenn> presumably your local computer isn't running busybox
19:59 < catern> fenn: I meant that as a point against Vagrant, which does that. what are you arguing against?
19:59 <@kanzure> he said tools for deploying
19:59 <@kanzure> a full ubuntu install is not a "tool for deploying"
19:59 < entelechy> vaagrant can work with any image you set it to
19:59 < entelechy> we use minimally provisioned debian
19:59 < eudoxia> vagrant lets you simulate the production environment
19:59 < fenn> maybe we have a different interpretation of "your local dev environment"
19:59 < eudoxia> that's kinda useful
19:59 <@kanzure> entelechy: everyone has already confirmed that they have used vagrant, shut up already
20:00 < entelechy> and when we finally get a programmer worth a shit into the company it'll be a snap to have him working with us
20:00 < entelechy> kanzure: neh
20:00 < catern> eudoxia: ah that actually sounds helpful
20:00 < catern> eudoxia: virtual networking and things?
20:00 < catern> eudoxia: whole constellations of VMs living locally?
20:00 < eudoxia> catern: do you mean mapping ports from the guest to the host?
20:00 < eudoxia> and yes
20:00 <@kanzure> you can have a constellation of VMs without vagrant, though
20:01 < fenn> entelechy: what's your company?
20:01 < entelechy> fenn: i'm not allowed to speak about it but i'll PM you
20:01  * fenn rolls eyes
20:01 < catern> eudoxia: no, I mean like virtual switches and routers
20:01 < fenn> we make stealth cheese blocks for cheese blockchain eaters
20:01 < eudoxia> not to the best of my knowledge
20:01 < entelechy> lol
20:01 < catern> eudoxia: lame, then vagrant goes back to sucking
20:01 < catern> useless!
20:02 <@kanzure> it's useful for people who don't want to spin up VMs through anything other than vagrant commands
20:03 <@kanzure> the hard part that i struggle with is getting service discovery working in development just like in production
20:03 < eudoxia> i use it for web applications, the vagrant vm is exactly the same as a remote server, so i don't have to eg set up nginx on my physical computer
20:03 <@kanzure> for this reason i have been eyeballing http://serfdom.io/
20:03 <@kanzure> it shouldn't just be "exactly the same", the image is what you should be deploying
20:04 <@kanzure> instead of a game of cat-and-mouse trying to do server configuration management
20:04 < catern> eudoxia: yes, using virtual machines for development is useful
20:04 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, I don't know.
20:04 < entelechy> that's pretty cool
20:05 < fenn> so, instead of "local" as in your laptop in the subway tunnel, you mean "local" as in the test server
20:05 <@kanzure> also, mumble mumble something about packer
20:05 <@kanzure> the test server is often something you spin up locally anyway
20:05 < eudoxia> fenn: yes
20:05 < entelechy> packer is fun to watch
20:08 < catern> all these hip new things are so far removed from the actual physical server room I mess with
20:08 < catern> we don't even have LDAP, we'll never have decentralized fault-tolerant service discovery buzzwords ;_;
20:09 <@kanzure> hardcoding ip addresses into your application source code is morally wrong
20:09 <@kanzure> because it gives people like me cancer
20:09 <@kanzure> that's what service discovery solves
20:09 <@kanzure> (also usually also some various load balancing issues)
20:09 < catern> oh
20:10 < catern> that sounds useful
20:10 <@kanzure> and dhcp isn't always the right way to solve that
20:11 <@kanzure> but also, maybe outage in your system is more acceptable
20:12 < catern> oh no I wasn't making fun of serfdom or buzzwards
20:12 < catern> our system sucks in every way
20:12 < catern> i'm showing my jealousy
20:12 <@kanzure> have you considered quitting
20:12 < catern> lolo
20:14 < catern> it's a student organization server room made up of donated hardware that I and other students maintain on a volunteer basis
20:15 < fenn> then there's no excuse
20:15 < fenn> you have no pointy haired boss to appease
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20:16 < catern> ah but that's where you're wrong
20:16 <@kanzure> really?
20:17 < catern> i do have a pointy haired boss-equivalent
20:17 < fenn> kick his ass
20:17 < catern> the previous generations who still use our shell servers
20:17 < catern> they vastly outnumber me
20:17 < fenn> no seriously, just wrap them up in a duct tape cocoon
20:18 < fenn> make sure to leave a hole for air and water
20:18 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: loper-os person was introduced to me by the molecular biology grad student that was assigned to me in 2008
20:18 < catern> that's the plan
20:19 < fenn> if you attach a keyboard and terminal input you can just hang them up on a rack like a salami, and they'll be fine
20:19 < fenn> that's why soylent is so popular among the hacker crowd these days
20:20 < fenn> for supplying your redundant array of virtual hackers
20:21 < catern> flood their racks with a nutrient-rich sludge every 8 hours
20:21 < eudoxia> hahaha
20:21 < fenn> wake up! meal time!
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20:25 < fenn> i dunno what this is but it looks cool http://www.isotruss.org
20:26 < fenn> more info http://isotruss.info
20:27 < fenn> i wonder if this is real http://isotruss.info/graphics/isopole.jpg
20:28 < fenn> http://isotruss.info/graphics/holdingpole.jpg looks real enough
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20:37 < fenn> i knew i had seen isotruss before somewhere http://fennetic.net/irc/isotruss_bike.jpg
20:38 < fenn> not exactly the same
20:40 < fenn> vs http://news.byu.edu/releases/archive07/May/modernmarvels/0501-25211.jpg
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20:44 < fenn> i'd like to make something like that that disassembles into a set of short pole bundles
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20:57 < fenn> wtf ntrs
20:57 < fenn> how could it be 404
21:02 < fenn> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1359835X01001130
21:02 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/ae6fcac583ff98b22137d54423fbbf4b.txt
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21:05 < fenn> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1359835X01001130/pdfft?md5=1678d3d3e91f62a9fcf83527842e77cd&pid=1-s2.0-S1359835X01001130-main.pdf
21:05 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/aa0e718b04e29c402df832c3faebb70d.pdf
21:05 < fenn> that shouldn't have worked
21:08 < fenn> let's try some other 404s then
21:08 < fenn> paperbot: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20030017982_2003023064.pdf
21:08 < paperbot> XMLSyntaxError: None (file "/home/bryan/code/paperbot/phenny/modules/scihub.py", line 51, in _go)
21:09 < fenn> paperbot: http://www.tech.plym.ac.uk/acmc/iccm12/site/papers/pap357.pdf
21:09 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/55255a58ae13da725ef6062cedd6ec5c.txt
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21:11 < fenn> http://femci.gsfc.nasa.gov/Isogrid/NASA-CR-124075_Isogrid_Design.pdf
21:11 < fenn> jeesh 1973, why does this look so futuristic still
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21:15 < dingo> hey kanzure http://keysleft.com/
21:17 <@kanzure> .title
21:18 < yoleaux> You have a finite number of keystrokes left in your hands before you die. How many is that?
21:18 <@kanzure> "3,801,599 Emails to your boss left"
21:18 < fenn> heresy! burn the deathist!
21:18 <@kanzure> simple, just say you're -100000 years old
21:18 < dingo> lol
21:18 <@kanzure> "5,765,183,999 Emails to your boss left"
21:19 <@kanzure> gee i better get started
21:19 < dingo> I have only -79,914,240,004 keystrokes left before I die.
21:19 < dingo> i overflowed !
21:19 < fenn> you are already dead
21:20 < fenn> one could wind the isogrid fibers around aluminum coupling nuts or tee nuts to make a nice lightweight mechanical breadboard
21:21 <@kanzure> dingo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kPII561-GY
21:21 <@kanzure> (context)
21:21 < dingo> oh thats an awful movie, why do you know that movie
21:21 < fenn> the floors/walls of skylab look like this http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/Assembling_the_Skylab_Orbital_Workshop_7014162.jpg
21:22 <@kanzure> how could i NOT know that movie
21:22 <@kanzure> the live action one wasn't completely crap
21:22 < fenn> eh live action?
21:23 < dingo> lol been 10 years ... maybe its not so bad... i forgot about heads exploding
21:23 <@kanzure> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXcmG2uvgRY
21:23 <@kanzure> .title
21:23 < yoleaux> Fist of the North Star (1995 Live Action)
21:27 < fenn> okay guess what i am not watching
21:27 <@kanzure> bah why not
21:27 <@kanzure> better than writing 5 billion emails to your boss
21:27 < fenn> it's 2 hours, and i already know what happens
21:28 <@kanzure> this is why more than one monitor is useful
21:28 < fenn> so i can accomplish nothing twice as fast
21:28 <@kanzure> i'd like to think i do a little bit more than nothing
21:29 < fenn> looks like homs, syria
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21:31 < dingo> i do nothing very well
21:31 < dingo> anytime you need nothing, let me know, i'm there for you
21:32 < fenn> can you take over for an hour while i go do something
21:32 <@kanzure> dingo: "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."
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21:35 < dingo> i'm doing nothing pretty well now, how do i get people to stop thinking i know everything, thats my next task
21:35 < eudoxia> fenn: i wonder why the floors on the skylab were rigid metal instead of something like a mesh
21:35 <@kanzure> dingo: have you tried giving the wrong answers?
21:35 < dingo> yeah -- it just made things worse lol
21:36 <@kanzure> tough problem
21:36 < dingo> cause they don't know it!
21:36 < dingo> never do a bad job well -- you'll get stuck with it
21:36 <@kanzure> how stuck are you now?
21:36 < dingo> i'm ls's replacement
21:36 <@kanzure> yep
21:37 < fenn> eudoxia: it was a rigid mesh... ? i dont get the question
21:37 < dingo> my mouth hurts from so much blah blah blah
21:37 < dingo> then i realize most people forget 90% of what i say lol
21:37 <@kanzure> and even if you type it out, they wont read it anyway
21:37 < dingo> that e-mails too long! give me the answer! lol
21:37 < eudoxia> fenn: i mean something like a net, something flexible and lightweight
21:37 < fenn> eudoxia: equipment and stuff was bolted to the floors during launch
21:38 <@kanzure> dingo: if i was in your situation, i would start thinking about how many other digits i want
21:39 < dingo> so i pushed back about that -- guess what they did, made me 50/50 lead, with *vv* as my complimentary, without any extra digits... wtf
21:39 < dingo> sincerely letting vv do the leading and me do the leaving, let it sink
21:39 <@kanzure> heh' nice
21:40 <@kanzure> well if that's how they feel about it
21:40 <@kanzure> not much else to say on the matter
21:41 < dingo> i haven't been making ultimatums yet... i think they're doing that stupid move "lets make them both the same position, then decide whose best", but you know, that won't end well, vv would leave if i got it and he didn't
21:41 < fenn> eudoxia: "Skylab's floors were made up of triangular grids. Triangular shoe cleats fitted into the grid cavities. With a twist of his foot, a crewman could position himself wherever he chose."
21:41 < fenn> a flexible grid would suck to use for positioning
21:42 <@kanzure> dingo: there's already too many levels to the top anyway, so it wouldn't matter either way
21:43 < dingo> well im gunna go soak up some denny's cheesey cheesey, ttyl
21:43 <@kanzure> priorities
21:44 < gradstudentbot> She keeps talking about her Nature paper, but she was only third author.
21:45 < fenn> here's a better view of the skylab floor grid https://www.flickr.com/photos/studies_and_observations/9579058/
21:46 < fenn> i think octet truss is better from a mass vs rigidity standpoint, but isogrid is more compact
21:49 < fenn> hm. entelechy should find this funny http://www.collectspace.com/ubb/Forum14/HTML/000893.html
21:49 < entelechy> ahahaha
21:50 < entelechy> that was 4yrs ago
21:50 < entelechy> someone order kanzure a wheel of cheese please
21:50 < fenn> and have it delivered by rocket?
21:50 < entelechy> by nuclear missle
21:50 <@kanzure> your petty weapons of war can't destroy me
21:51 <@kanzure> no matter how cheesey
21:51 < entelechy> but you'll eat the wheel of cheese?
21:52 < entelechy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire_Mammoth_Cheese this is my favorite giant cheese story
21:52 < entelechy> white house gets delivered 1234 pound block of the stuff
21:52 < entelechy> doesnt know wtf to do with the stinky thing
21:52 < entelechy> so finally they were like 'lets just invite a bunch of people to take some of it'
21:53 < fenn> was the 1234 intentional?
21:53 < entelechy> nah it was just read off the wiki article
21:54 < entelechy> i dont know what their idea was other than 'its 1802 lets make a shit load of cheese for freedom'
21:54 < eudoxia> >The naming of the cheese was the first time the word mammoth was used as an adjective.
21:54 < fenn> untold history of the united states
21:54 < eudoxia> idk guys this is more interesting than the cheese
21:54 < entelechy> is that substantiated or just an anecdote
21:55 <@kanzure> why are you in this channel again?
21:55 < entelechy> when was the first wolly mammoth found
21:55 < entelechy> kanzure: because thank you for the interesting discussions but fuck you for the pretentiousness
21:55 < eudoxia> entelechy: i dunno there's a reference next to it
21:55 < eudoxia> kanzure: me or enty
21:55 <@kanzure> first i'm emotionless, then i'm pretentious, next i'm what
21:55 < entelechy> you're probably a pretty cool guy IRL
21:55 <@kanzure> i don't care
21:55 < entelechy> but a dick online
21:56 < entelechy> why? lots of idiots here
21:56 <@kanzure> still don't care
21:56 < entelechy> i can tell why though
21:57 <@kanzure> eudoxia: you're fine
21:58 < eudoxia> cool
22:00 <@kanzure> meh http://www.1coinpool.com/blog/bitcoin-atm-btm-kiosks-startups
22:01 < entelechy> a buddy of mine i was trying to start a company with not long ago, which failed due to numereous reasons unfortunately outside of our control and now being taken care of by lawyers, moved on to other things and has now secured exclusive reuters/AP distro of cryptocurrency news
22:02 < entelechy> the only reason we can afford lawyers is because of cryptocurrency
22:02 < entelechy> shits real
22:02 <@kanzure> why are you saying those things
22:02 <@kanzure> what the fuck dude
22:03 < entelechy> lol why not
22:03 <@kanzure> ##hplusroadmap is not just some random-ass stream of consciousness text
22:04 <@kanzure> and if that text was supposed to be a refutation of "meh", it's a really terrible one because it doesn't even address the topic of the fucking link
22:05 < entelechy> which is 'bitcoin ATMs are a thing'?
22:05 < entelechy> vs your opinion of 'meh'?
22:05 < entelechy> 'meh' is not the topic of the fucking link
22:05 <@kanzure> "shits real" and "some story about being too poor to pay lawyers" is not a good response to "here's a list of bitcoin atms, but meh because the list sucks" because it's very distantly related (aka unrelated)
22:06 < entelechy> i'm not fuckin psychic and able to tell everything you're on the same tip of
22:07 < entelechy> that said i dont see the original vancouver one on there
22:07 <@kanzure> i'm not either; i wasn't making commentary about lawyers- how would you even get to that topic
22:07 <@kanzure> sigh
22:07 < entelechy> it's an aside
22:07 <@kanzure> uh... sure.
22:07 <@kanzure> i highly doubt that
22:07 < entelechy> i'm not going to blather off here as to why. everyone knows lawyers are expensive though
22:07 < entelechy> all that matters
22:08 <@kanzure> no, that's not all that matters
22:08 <@kanzure> otherwise you would just say anything in here
22:08 < entelechy> not really no
22:08 <@kanzure> you seem to be evidence to the contrary
22:09 < entelechy> lol
22:09 < entelechy> whatever you say bossman
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22:26 <@kanzure> fenn: what's the c2.com of hardware?
22:26 < fenn> um. please restate the question
22:27 < fenn> so, believe it or not, engineers from multiple disciplines don't really talk to each other
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22:27 < fenn> eh you are at hive76?
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22:29 <@kanzure> jmil used to be at hive76
22:29 <@kanzure> jmil: welcome back to the land of the living
22:29 <@kanzure> jmil: also, opensls was cool
22:29 < fenn> should i watch those AMRI videos?
22:29 <@kanzure> i haven't looked. maybe?
22:29 <@kanzure> also, why don't they talk?
22:30 < jmil> o/
22:30 <@kanzure> the disciplines would cross and everything would break?
22:30 < jmil> thanks!
22:30 < jmil> if you like science, fenn
22:30 < jmil> :D
22:30 < jmil> what? they do talk
22:30 < jmil> they are talkies
22:30 <@kanzure> i was replying to:
22:30 <@kanzure> 20:27 < fenn> so, believe it or not, engineers from multiple disciplines don't really talk to each other
22:30 < jmil> i’m so confused
22:30 < jmil> oh
22:30 <@kanzure> do you know off-hand what was so expensive about opensls?
22:30 <@kanzure> iirc it was $15k?
22:31 < jmil> ya
22:31 < jmil> it was $7k for the laser cutter, then lots of little bits
22:31 <@kanzure> was the laser cutter off the shelf or over the counter?
22:31 < jmil> usually they are $200k, so i dunno how you think $15k is expensive :D
22:31 <@kanzure> the $200k ones are also expensive
22:31 < jmil> lulz
22:31 < fenn> so a gantry style laser doesn't seem like the right tool; a galvo system would be more appropriate, and faster
22:31 <@kanzure> with 50,000% markup
22:32 < fenn> $15k is expensive for a 3d printer toy
22:32 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, it's significant.
22:32 < fenn> too bad DMD would probably melt
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22:33 < fenn> maybe you could put the dmd under water
22:33 < fenn> lol
22:33 < jmil> why is it a toy?
22:33 < jmil> we are using it for science
22:33 < fenn> what are you using SLS for?
22:33 < jmil> guess you’ll have to watch taht video
22:33 < gradstudentbot> My matlab crashed.
22:34 < fenn> ugh i hate videos
22:34 <@kanzure> there was also a blog
22:34 < jmil> gradstudentbot: you fail
22:34 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, I'm a 4th year. No wait, I'm a 6th year.
22:34 < jmil> gradstudentbot: when do you graduate?
22:34 < gradstudentbot> So, there's this really good conference in Spain that I want to attend.
22:34 <@kanzure> gradstudentbot: you should coauthor a paper with jmil
22:34 < gradstudentbot> I have the methods section but I haven't written the introduction or conclusions.
22:35 <@kanzure> that was fast
22:35 < fenn> jmil: are there thread deposition systems for reprap yet? like fiber composite layup
22:35 < jmil> i thought someone did that
22:37 < fenn> there was a silly thing with mechanical pencil mechanism to do copper wire circuit boards, but i'm more interested in fiberglass/polymer composites
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22:42 < fenn> jmil: have you looked into photo cured resins for cell scaffolding?
22:43 < jmil> yes fenn, we are synthesizing it. it’s part of my phd thesis from ‘08
22:43 < jmil> that’s what the open dlp is all about
22:43 < fenn> i am out of the loop
22:43 <@kanzure> link?
22:43 < fenn> i thought you were doing sugar printing with reprap
22:44 < fenn> http://open3dlp.blogspot.com/
22:45 < fenn> oh the thing about bamboo fiber/hdpe extrusion is you can extrude in t-slot cross sections
22:45 < jmil> fenn, we do a lot of stuff
22:46 < fenn> jmil: do you think dlp would work for making molds to cast lego bricks?
22:47 < jmil> ummmmm… you can use legos to make a mold to cast lego bricks.
22:49 < fenn> there are something like 11,000 different lego bricks
22:49 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:51 < entelechy> i didnt grow up rich enough to get lego for christmas
22:51 < entelechy> instead i got this shit
22:51 < entelechy> https://sites.google.com/site/sportsrunner117/picturesforwebsite020.jpg
22:52 < fenn> 11,274 sets, 33,664 parts, 6,907 minifigs
22:53 < nmz787_i> http://vimeo.com/858385
22:53 < nmz787_i> .title
22:53 < yoleaux> What If Bacteria Designed Computers? on Vimeo
22:54 < nmz787_i> by Ward Cunningham
22:54 < fenn> anyway designing all the parting lines and sprues and air gaps and ejector pins and mold keys seems a lot easier to do in a computer automatically
22:55 < fenn> then you can just download a set description with all the brick geometries in it and press 'print' and it makes a mold with all the bricks
22:55 < fenn> well, one for each color
22:57 <@kanzure> hm: "Sheiko S.S., Möller M., Reuvekamp E.M.C.M., Rogalla H., “Mesoscopic Calibration of AFM Tips”, NL-9202179, 1992"
23:00 < fenn> jmil: i've never actually seen a dlp printed part so i'm not sure what the surface quality is really like
23:01 < jmil> you should look into opendlp, we have microscope pics
23:02 < fenn> yeah but that's just confusing because of the arbitrary scale
23:02 < fenn> i mean, what looks like huge bumps in a microscope are just a glossy sheen to the unaided eye
23:03 < nmz787_i> what's going on in here?
23:03 < fenn> i'm rambling about isogrid and pestering jmil about 3d printers
23:05 < fenn> ok so after watching that 13 minute video i learned he casts hydrogel around the sintered sugar
23:08 < nmz787_i> duuhhh
23:08 < nmz787_i> you coulda asked us
23:09 < fenn> the answer was "watch the video"
23:09 < nmz787_i> the key is the extrusion speed, temperatures, sugar recipe.... at least
23:09 < nmz787_i> oh
23:09 < nmz787_i> I'm sorry
23:09 < fenn> this was SLS of maltose (?)
23:09 < nmz787_i> idk
23:09 < nmz787_i> i assume there is a wiki or github recipe somewhere
23:09 < nmz787_i> or some journal article
23:10 < fenn> .title http://youtube.com/watch?v=EE5KRSlO9rA  this is all i know
23:10 < yoleaux> fenn: Sorry, that command (.title) crashed.
23:10 < fenn> jesus yoleaux you're making me look bad
23:10 < nmz787_i>  http://youtube.com/watch?v=EE5KRSlO9rA
23:10 < nmz787_i> .title
23:10 < yoleaux> Andreas Bastian - AMRI 2013 Final Presentations
23:11 < nmz787_i> paperbot: http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/scientificamerican0413-54
23:11 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/3717ed0d4ba12ee8cb269e7e72d496cf.txt
23:12 < cpopell`working> y'all see what gwern just posted in #lesswrong? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/280585369/2014-dubal.pdf
23:12 < nmz787_i> http://www.google.com/patents/US20120058174
23:12 < nmz787_i> cpopell`working: is that safe for work?
23:13 < nmz787_i> fenn: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3586565/
23:13 < cpopell`working> nmz787_i: Life Extension Factor Klotho Enhances Cognition
23:13 < cpopell`working> (title)
23:13 < nmz787_i> hmm, it says open access at the top right
23:13 < nmz787_i> so why is it on dropbox?
23:14 < cpopell`working> I just snagged the link from gwern
23:14 <@kanzure> "separation of synaptic membrane fractions" those poor souls
23:16 < cpopell`working> http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.celrep.2014.03.076 ugh
23:20 < nmz787_i> http://c2.com/cybords/
23:21  * fenn mumbles something about choline
23:21 <@kanzure> is this because ward cunningham was in the news, or because i mentioned c2.com earlier today
23:21 <@kanzure> too many signals getting crossed
23:24 < fenn> i'm knowledgeable about electronics and control systems and molecular biology and i still don't get it
23:24 <@kanzure> fenn: what would it take to get a c2.com wiki for hardware
23:24 <@kanzure> fenn: i mean, where people would write the epic "perl is evil" rants except of hardware
23:25 < fenn> you'd need to get eric hunting interested
23:25 < fenn> you could just copy openmanufacturing onto it :P
23:25 < fenn> jk don't do that
23:26 <@kanzure> why doesn't eric do electronics?
23:26 <@kanzure> afaik he doesn't
23:26 < fenn> i think he used to build ebook readers, before they were a thing
23:26 < fenn> joeypad(?)
23:27 < nmz787_i> he's using atmel chips to simulate cascade reactions or something like that... he says each chip computes a 'dice toss', and then he connects them to others and they add together
23:27 < fenn> http://radio-weblogs.com/0119080/stories/2003/02/27/interestsJoeypadAndGeode.html
23:28 < fenn> nmz787_i: ok but ... WHY
23:31 < nmz787_i> "i did this dice thing because my ham radio friend said, uh,  gee why don't you do this dice thing"
23:31 < entelechy> english language textbooks from russia
23:31 < entelechy> has me curious
23:33 <@kanzure> "In 1882 Edison switched on the world's first large-scale electrical supply network that provided 110 volts direct current to fifty-nine customers in lower Manhattan"
23:33 <@kanzure> only 59 customers?
23:33 < entelechy> was that edison's operation?
23:33 < entelechy> wait no i didnt even catch that part
23:33 < entelechy> hahahaha how dumbfuck of me
23:33 < entelechy> all i know is that they operated for a while with the DC on oldschool elevators
23:34 < fenn> what "Liquid Crystal Light Valve displays readily afforded resolutions in excess of 300dpi with additive color of potentially unlimited color depth and screen areas as big as a movie theater screen. Then, and now, they far surpassed the graphics capabilities of the most powerful computers."
23:34 <@kanzure> wikipedia's history of electronics is awful. it has no sense of scale of circuits.
23:35 < entelechy> i knew this guy in my neighborhood back where im from who wired his whole place up with solar power/dc off the grid in the middle of town
23:35 < entelechy> great way to go
23:36 < entelechy> http://www.microsec.net/ this dude!
23:36 < entelechy> he had a hydrogen fuel cell powered boat
23:36 <@kanzure> ugh go away
23:37 < entelechy> kanzure: never
23:37 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+b entelechy!*@*] by kanzure
23:37 < nmz787_i> hmm this is neat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_crystal_on_silicon
23:38 < fenn> heh i had read his radiation hormesis pages
23:38 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-b entelechy!*@*] by kanzure
23:38 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+q entelechy!*@*] by kanzure
23:38 < fenn> a little too gung-ho without the evidence to back up wearing a chunk of uranium around your neck
23:39 <@kanzure> fenn, what is the approximate size (in number of elements/nodes) of circuits between 1600-1800? or was nobody building circuits because nobody had capacitors or diodes etc.
23:39 < nmz787_i> wasn't that contaminated steel in china/hong kong retracted or something?
23:39 < nmz787_i> contaminated with radioation steel (journal article)
23:40 < nmz787_i> diodes were pretty shitty/nonexistent before 1900
23:41 < fenn> kanzure: 5-10
23:41 <@kanzure> fascinating
23:41 <@kanzure> "In the 19th and early 20th century, electricity was not part of the everyday life of many people, even in the industrialised Western world. The popular culture of the time accordingly often depicts it as a mysterious, quasi-magical force that can slay the living, revive the dead or otherwise bend the laws of nature.[73] This attitude began with the 1771 experiments of Luigi Galvani in which the legs of dead frogs were shown to twitch on ...
23:41 <@kanzure> ... application of animal electricity. "Revitalization" or resuscitation of apparently dead or drowned persons was reported in the medical literature shortly after Galvani's work. These results were known to Mary Shelley when she authored Frankenstein (1819), although she does not name the method of revitalization of the monster. The revitalization of monsters with electricity later became a stock theme in horror films."
23:41 < nmz787_i> there was the coherer just before the cat's whisher
23:41 < fenn> leyden jars and piles took a long time to develop into capacitors and batteries
23:41 <@kanzure> i didn't know that it galvani was directly responsible
23:41 < nmz787_i> whisker*
23:41 <@kanzure> -it
23:42 <@kanzure> so he shocked a few frogs and now we have weird science fiction about blasting lightning bolts into the undead to awaken the hidden plague?
23:43 < fenn> nmz787_i: no retraction that i'm aware of.. mostly dumb silence from the "radiation causes cancer" crowd
23:43 <@kanzure> piles?
23:44 < fenn> there are other studies to back it up, like incidence of cancer among nuclear reactor workers (lower than average)
23:44 < nmz787_i> oh, I guess a coherer isn't a diode per-se
23:44 < fenn> kanzure: piles are like really tall stacks of multiple layers of saltwater soaked cloth and different metals
23:44 < nmz787_i> but the thermionic tube was 1873 and crystal diodes 1874
23:45 < nmz787_i> hertz was in the late 1800s, making waves with spark gaps
23:46 < fenn> what is a coherer?
23:46 <@kanzure> shouldn't there be like, uh, "circuit philosophers" who were theorizing about capacitors around that time
23:47 < fenn> i guess it's a tunneling spark gap
23:47 <@kanzure> "damn, if only i had this one other part that doesn't exist yet, .."
23:47 < nmz787_i> fenn: but to reset it, you had to physically shake it
23:47 < fenn> what's the point of that
23:47 < nmz787_i> fenn: marconis solution was an automatic hammer
23:48 < fenn> "when dusty air was electrified, the particles of dust would tend to attach themselves together in the form of strings"
23:49 < fenn> nmz787_i: do you know about peratech quantum tunneling composite rubber?
23:49 < fenn> it's a low impedance pressure sensor
23:50 < fenn> you can actually run DC motors through the sensor, so they turn on when you press the blob of rubber (with wires jabbed in the sides)
23:50 < fenn> it works on a similar mechanism, except the particles don't actually bond together
23:50 < nmz787_i> fenn: this article is littered with 'rejected' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis
23:51 < nmz787_i> hmm
23:51 < nmz787_i> no i've not heard of that
23:51 < nmz787_i> i saw the axially conductive tape on sparkfun recently :D
23:52 < fenn> nmz787_i: all i see is "National Research Council" doesnt like it, and 54 citations
23:53 < fenn> http://www.peratech.com/qtc-material.html
23:53 <@kanzure> i doubt galvani was routing lightning bolts straight into frog legs anyway
23:54 < nmz787_i> "Hwang et al. proposed that the lower rate of "all cancers" might due to the exposed populations higher socioeconomic status and thus overall healthier lifestyle, but this was difficult to prove"
23:54 < nmz787_i> kanzure: poking a chick heart with a scalpel will cause it to start or stop fibrillating
23:54 < fenn> galvani was using piles, which were based on "galvanic current"
23:55 < fenn> .ety galvanic
23:55 < nmz787_i> and of course you know about the robot and rat neural cell thing
23:55 < yoleaux> galvanic (adj.): "1797; see galvanism + -ic." — http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=galvanic
23:55 < fenn> .ety galvanism
23:55 < yoleaux> galvanism (n.): ""electricity produced by chemical action," 1797, from French galvanisme or Italian galvanismo, from Italian physicist Luigi Galvani (1737-1798) who discovered it c.1792 while running currents through the legs of dead frogs." — http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=galvanism
23:55 < nmz787_i> soo i doubt you'd need much voltage to get a leg to jump
23:55 < fenn> it's not about the voltage so much as the rate of change in current
23:55 < nmz787_i> a 9-volt does the trick on your tongue ;)
23:56 < nmz787_i> i'm not so sure about that
23:56 < nmz787_i> you need the voltage to cause the impulse to start
23:56 < gradstudentbot> It's not really significant, but there's definitely a trend.
23:56 < gradstudentbot> Cancer: still not cured.
23:56 < fenn> yeah if you lay a frog leg on a copper plate and poke it with a zinc wire touching the plate, it should jump
23:56 < nmz787_i> to get over the membrane insulation
23:56 < fenn> myelin only covers part of the cell
23:57 < fenn> also, cells run on like 200mV
23:57 < nmz787_i> the membrane covers the whole cell
23:57 < fenn> so what
23:57 < nmz787_i> it is fat/oil
23:57 < fenn> nerve cells are sitting there ready to trigger at the slightest provocation
23:57 < fenn> they're like mousetraps
23:58 < fenn> throw in a ping pong ball
23:58 < nmz787_i> hmm, so it's some number of Joules then?
23:58 < fenn> you should "experience the joule!"
23:58 < nmz787_i> enough to pull some ions and shift the concentration enough?
23:59 < fenn> https://www.flickr.com/photos/sgoralnick/4993190055/ this was so much fun
23:59 < fenn> people lining up to get the shit zapped out of them
--- Log closed Fri May 09 00:00:55 2014