--- Log opened Mon May 19 00:00:09 2014
00:00 < QuantumG> there's probably some expert Japanese way that I'm not aware of for dealing with this.
00:04 <@fenn> you sit on your knees and raise the explanation on a platter above you with both hands
00:06 < ebowden> LOL
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00:15 < kanzure> i can't help but think that gradstudentbot would be better if i had ever actually been a graduate student
00:15 < gradstudentbot> Blah, why won't they just kick me out.
00:16 < ebowden> Oh?
00:19 < QuantumG>  /ban gradstudentbot [ERROR] You need to be an operator in ##hplusroadmap to do that.
00:19 < gradstudentbot> Should I be doing this in the fume hood?
00:20 < ebowden> Kanzure, you were never a grad student?
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08:01 <@_archels> .title http://news.brown.edu/pressreleases/2014/05/longevity
08:01 < yoleaux> Interactions may matter most for longevity
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08:08 < chris_99> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10806450
08:08 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1076%2F1385-4046%28199911%2913%3A04%3B1-Y%3BFT386
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08:09 < chris_99> does anyone know anything about inferring causality per chance
08:09 < chris_99> or papers that do
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08:26 < chris_99> oh kanzure openworm got funded :)
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08:28 < eudoxia> >$120,593 of $120,000
08:28 < eudoxia> i thought they'd do better
08:28 < eudoxia> they seemed to really know how to do marketing
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08:29 < eudoxia> but what do i know
08:29 < chris_99> i'm just backing them now, i like the idea
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09:51 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7767820
09:51 < yoleaux> Pokémon Crystal disassembled source code
09:52 < dingo> if i had an account OR karma i might actually upvote that
09:53 < dingo> luckily i find better things to do than to join in on that ycombinator crap
09:53 < kanzure> hehe
09:53 < eudoxia> uprocketed
09:54 < kanzure> "This is fairly nonlegal, right? ...
09:54 < kanzure> "Excessively so
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10:29 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=e09e78d4 Bryan Bishop: clarify a wiki in the wiki stealing list >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/wikis/
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10:32 < eudoxia> steal is rather a harsh word
10:32 < eudoxia> maybe replicate
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10:36 < ParahSailin> http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/15/5720446/science-explains-why-octopus-arms-dont-stick-together
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10:46 < kanzure> eudoxia: as you know, i have a gift for understatement
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10:55 < kanzure> fenn, eric hunting posted some thoughts about storage-as-a-service or something https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/openmanufacturing/6Uayn5Nv9AA
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12:23 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=943ae26b Bryan Bishop: notes about paves >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/cad/opencascade/
12:28 < justanotheruser> paperbot: http://www.academia.edu/4623884/An_efficient_and_distributed_file_search_in_unstructured_peer-to-peer_networks
12:28 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/216d7272d888e7c06c5b6b91caa6f50f.txt
12:28 < justanotheruser> Come on paper bot :/
12:30 <@jrayhawk> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs12083-013-0236-0
12:30 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/d5cd1734b6b11681d86d52d087c99cf1.txt
12:30 <@jrayhawk> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2Fs12083-013-0236-0.pdf
12:30 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/1db8a9d2058510f9bebe78421d9cc9c6.txt
12:32 < justanotheruser> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs12083-013-0236-0
12:32 <@jrayhawk> welp, beats me
12:32 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/64639adda66ae71b528c37d5359faa80.txt
12:33 < delinquentme> Other methods for molecular size separation: " molecular sieve chromatography " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_sieve
12:33 < delinquentme> the mesoporous category thus lies in the middle with pore diameters between 2 and 50 nm (20-500 Å).[2]
12:33 < delinquentme> NICE!
12:33 < justanotheruser> jrayhawk: oh, you were trying the same thing. :)
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12:33 < justanotheruser> Welp I guess I'll wait until I'm not mobile and use my school
12:47 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=4e17151d Bryan Bishop: abbreviations used in opencascade >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/cad/opencascade/
12:48 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=4ff98eb4 Bryan Bishop: fix minor type (g key) >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/cad/opencascade/
12:48 < kanzure> type heh
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12:50 < kumavis> o/
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12:50 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=945b0dc8 Bryan Bishop: another g-key typo >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/cad/opencascade/
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12:53 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=5349a4a4 Bryan Bishop: persistence and point have the same abbreviation >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/cad/opencascade/
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12:56 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=205aba0b Bryan Bishop: pave-related abbreviations >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/cad/opencascade/
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13:21 < kanzure> http://www.mindtribe.com/2014/05/spotting-patterns-in-c-disassembly/
13:26 < cuba> does that link work for you kanzure?
13:28 < kanzure> it did a few minutes ago
13:28 < gradstudentbot> It's statistically significant.
13:28 < eudoxia> gradstudentbot: any interesting work lately?
13:28 < gradstudentbot> I think I just cured cancer. Wow.
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13:35 < dbolser> gradstudentbot: boring
13:35 < gradstudentbot> I don't think our fume hood is safe.
13:35 < dbolser> what is that site where you can put a file behind some bitcoin?
13:35 < dbolser> you get sent the file when you pay
13:36 < kanzure> http://min.io/
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13:42 < dbolser> kanzure: ty
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13:44 < dbolser> 4%?
13:45 < kanzure> dbolser: ok, fine, try http://bitmonet.com/ then
13:45 < kanzure> erm wait
13:46 < kanzure> wasn't there a wallthing?
13:46 < dbolser> hehe
13:46 < kanzure> http://bitwall.io/ ?
13:47 < dbolser> http://min.io/b/f1f58d47
13:47 < dbolser> ^^ garbage btw
13:48 < dbolser> my content I mean!
13:48 < dbolser> buyer be damned
13:48 < dbolser> ;-)
13:55 < dbolser> thanks again kanzure min.io is prolly good for the person I'm trying to interest
13:58 < dbolser> shall we all share a google account with all our music in it?
13:59 < dbolser> anyone earning storage coin?
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14:00 < kanzure> all of the implementations of "proof of resource" i've seen have been flawed, so i don't recommend doing that really
14:01 < dbolser> kanzure: you can fake your resource?
14:01 < kanzure> hell yeah
14:01 < dbolser> or the resource itself is insecure
14:01 < kanzure> i submitted this to the maidsafe assholes and they totally ignored me
14:01 < dbolser> what about proof of storage?
14:01 < dbolser> lol
14:01 < dbolser> kanzure: just show them your 50Pt
14:01 < kanzure> so i intercepted them when they were in austin, but nothing came of that either
14:01 < kanzure> whatever, i don't care
14:02 < dbolser> what about proof of storage?
14:02 < kanzure> that's what i'm talking about
14:02 < dbolser> i.e. proving I have file x?
14:02 < dbolser> oh, I thought proving you have x amount of space was different
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14:03 < kanzure> proof of storage so far suffers from lots of collusion attacks where someone can earn a disproportionate amount of credit for the number of copies he's claiming to be storing (and instead only storing one)
14:03 < dbolser> I'd have thought (nievely) that you could easily make a system to prove you had a certain file securely... but perhaps not so efficiently
14:03 < kanzure> since you suffer from sybil attacks, you have no idea which nodes on your network are colluding or not
14:03 < dbolser> kanzure: can you outline how the implementation works?
14:03 < dbolser> (via a url)
14:04 < kanzure> there was a thread on the maidsafe mailing list somewhere
14:04 < kanzure> dude it's really boring
14:04 < dbolser> I figured you'd be offered a unique challenge that you could only solve using some aspect of the file itself
14:04 < dbolser> kanzure: dude, I just built an absurd rig by mistake... I figure I can recoup some of my stupidity with stc ;-)
14:05 < kanzure> and maybe you have that file, but 50% of the network are your nodes with just one copy of the file
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14:05 < kanzure> dbolser: if you mean a mining rig, then i may have a use for that in the near future..
14:05 < dbolser> ahhh
14:05 < dbolser> no, a nas
14:05 < kanzure> oh, in that case, download a copy of library genesis
14:05 < dbolser> oh
14:06 < dbolser> wow... that's such an obvious flaw in the system, I can't believe I didn't think of it
14:06 < kanzure> the number of new shitty projects being proposed in the bitcoin world is way greater than the available capacity for people to tell you why shit sucks
14:07 < Mokstar> isn't that how regular product marketing works?
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14:07 < dbolser> the maidsafe youtube movie made me voimit in my own face
14:07 < kanzure> Mokstar: yes, but these projects all seem to attract lots of money very easily (because people have bitcoins)
14:07 < Mokstar> TIL dbolser has a klein bottle for a face
14:08 < kanzure> so it's easy to end up with a large pile of bitcoins just for slapping some words together
14:08 < Mokstar> reeeally
14:08 < kanzure> promise the moon ("this project will cripple the federal reserve by..")
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14:08 < kanzure> yeah, look at all the altcoins
14:08  * Mokstar invents a bitcoin-powered dog toy store.
14:08 < kanzure> apply a regular expression to the bitcoin source code, post to github, you'll get lots of miners and an exchange will integrate it within 2 weeks
14:08 < kanzure> it's just silly out there
14:09 < kanzure> you have to promise the moon, though
14:09 < Mokstar> somebody's making plenty of money
14:09 < kanzure> dog toys are not a moon
14:09 < Mokstar> all I know is that someone isn't me
14:09 < dbolser> kanzure: could you catch the cheats like torrent clients do?
14:09 < Mokstar> you can't cheat
14:09 < dbolser> i.e. send out lots of small files that... hmm...
14:10 < dbolser> Mokstar: don't be google
14:10 < Mokstar> that shouldn't be hard
14:10 < Mokstar> http://www.kleinbottle.com/tiny_klein.html
14:10 < kanzure> .title
14:10 < yoleaux> Acme's Tiny Klein Bottle and Klein bottle earrings.
14:13 < pasky> hm reminds me i wanted to take a look at storj
14:17 < Mokstar> wow
14:17 < Mokstar> this site is awful, but these bottles are neat
14:17 < dbolser> I guess you could use some kind of storage volume that had a certain capacity with a unique fingerprint per 'space'... somehow...
14:18 < dbolser> hard to imagine how the sig could be linked to a physical size
14:20 < dbolser> min.io hasn't sent me my file yet... I paid ages ago!
14:21 < kanzure> they might wait for a few block confirmations
14:21 < dbolser> 2 so far
14:21 < dbolser> I laugh when people say, if you're buying a coffee, who cares about confirmation?!
14:22 < dbolser> a person who sells coffee for a living for one
14:22 < kanzure> in general you aren't going to et a double spend attack for a $10 coffee
14:22 < kanzure> *to get
14:22 < dbolser> kanzure: if I build a double spend app you will
14:22 < Mokstar> unless you can do it a few hundred times
14:23 < dbolser> (if miners start taking tx by fee)
14:23 < kanzure> your "double spend app" is only based on network saturation
14:23 < dbolser> I'll do it every time I buy a coffee
14:23 < kanzure> it is easy to counteract that btw
14:23 < kanzure> the payment processor just has to dump the transaction on the network faster than you can dump a different one
14:23 < dbolser> kanzure: one proposal is that tx will be picked up by tx fee.
14:23 < kanzure> that's often not entirely true
14:24 < dbolser> The app will fist put out the tx for the coffee, then give the merchant one
14:24 < kanzure> the best way to get it into the next block is to make sure everyone knows about it
14:24 < kanzure> yes i know
14:24 < dbolser> kanzure: currently... won't this change if a tx fee comes in?
14:24 < kanzure> i still think my suggestion above will fix that
14:24 < kanzure> not all miners prioritize transaction fees efficiently
14:25 < kanzure> some miners don't even include transactions in their blocks
14:25 < gradstudentbot> Uh, interesting question.
14:26 < dbolser> kanzure: so the merch gets my tx, and she pumps it out using her internet connection vs. my mobile internet connection?
14:26 < kanzure> not just that
14:27 < kanzure> the payment processor that she's using will have 800-5000 connections to the bitcoin network
14:27 < kanzure> which is basically all the nodes
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14:29 < dbolser> so the tx gets to 'all the nodes' instantly, and my tx is just lumpign around ...
14:30 < kanzure> the short way to explain it is that the same technique that "double spends by sending multiple unconfirmed bitcoin transactions" can apply for flooding a network with a regular transaction
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14:32 < dbolser> kanzure: seems like a good incentive to use a payment processor
14:33 < dbolser> local solutions involve the merchant installing an app and hosting a wallet
14:34 < dbolser> pasky: so does storj solve the 'one file many nodes' problem?
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14:36 < pasky> dbolser: i don't know, still didn't get around to look at it :)
14:36 < dbolser>  This 
14:36 < dbolser> indistinguishable nature of the autonomous and testing data also prevents nodes from gaming 
14:36 < dbolser> the system to receive tokens without actually providing resource
14:36 < dbolser> ... end of paragrah...
14:36 < dbolser> hmm
14:37 < dbolser> oic
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14:37 < dbolser> the client that sits on your machine and talks to the network adds random 'garbage' to the copies of the file, like fake post boxes on OS maps
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14:38 < dbolser> so if you can reverse engineer the client, you can be a malicious node
14:38 < pasky> isn't it opensource?
14:38 < dbolser> oh... yeah
14:38 < dbolser> I'm thinking my above explaination is a bit poor
14:38 < dbolser> end of page 7
14:40 < dbolser> no, that's not it at all
14:41 < dbolser> here's my solution... split the file into multiple overlapping bits so you have overall coverage of 10 x or whatever, but no bit is the same. No node hosts the same bits more than once
14:41 < dbolser> so having multiple copies marks you out as a cheat
14:41 < kanzure> if the nodes know the scheme, then you just spoof the hosts (route the traffic back to your actual node)
14:41 < kanzure> nice try
14:42 < kanzure> also you don't have to tell people that you have multiple copies?
14:42 < dbolser> kanzure: but my actual node only has so many pieces
14:42 < dbolser> kanzure: I thought that was the point of gaming?
14:42 < kanzure> the point of gaming the network is to get money
14:42 < dbolser> kanzure: and you get money for hosting files (or parts of them)
14:43 < kanzure> no
14:43 < dbolser> as a node (in my system ;-) I have no idea which parts of which files I'm hosting
14:43 < kanzure> you get money for responding to challenges correctly, or something l;ike that
14:43 < dbolser> oh, right
14:43 < kanzure> and for the number of hosts you can spoof
14:44 < dbolser> don't the 'clients' issue the challenges, being the only one on the network who owns the original file?
14:44 < kanzure> dunno
14:44 < dbolser> I'm guessing so, cus they are the ones that care that their file is hosted
14:44 < kanzure> that wouldn't make sense because what happens when you go offline for 2 years
14:44 < dbolser> nodes dump your files
14:44 < dbolser> cus they aint' getting paid
14:45 < dbolser> oh
14:45 < dbolser> so much for long term storage haha
14:45 < dbolser> well that's all I've got
14:46 < kanzure> did you buy the nas in anticipation of this?
14:46 < dbolser> since each piece is unique (has a unique challenge), there is no way to use one 'piece' to pretend to have more stored than you have
14:46 < dbolser> no
14:47 < dbolser> I just optimized my spreadsheet on cost per Tb instead of cost...
14:47 < dbolser> and ended up building an 18Tb box for 'home' storage
14:47 < dbolser> I'm dumb like that
14:49 < kanzure> library genesis
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14:50 < dbolser> A description for this result is not available because of this site's robots.txt – learn more.
14:51 < kanzure> it's 12 TB of papers and books
14:52 < dbolser> ic
14:52 < dbolser> and I just host it to keep it free?
14:53 < kanzure> you host it to keep it for yourself
14:53 < kanzure> because you don't trust them to stay up forever
14:53 < dbolser> ah
14:53 < gradstudentbot> That's not really surprising since they did it ex vivo.
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14:55 < dbolser> night, thanks for patience
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15:35 < kanzure> hahaha http://www.protocol-online.org/forums/forum/30-venting-and-counseling/
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15:47 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=7108be9d Bryan Bishop: even more opencascade abbreviations >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/cad/opencascade/
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15:54 < kanzure> so i'm trying to figure out why they are updating an array data struct thing in MakeBlocksCnx,
15:54 < kanzure> https://github.com/tpaviot/oce/blob/master/src/BOPAlgo/BOPAlgo_Tools.cxx#L23
15:54 < kanzure> but it occurs to me, maybe the reason why all the comments are blank is because they stripped that content?
15:54 < gradstudentbot> Oh that's interesting, do you want to write a paper together?
15:56 < kanzure> ouch my feelings
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16:37 < kanzure> http://opencascade.wikidot.com/ru:b-spline-surface
16:37 < kanzure> .title
16:37 < yoleaux> RU: B-Spline Surface
16:37 < kanzure> http://opencascade.wikidot.com/ru:bezier-surface
16:38 < kanzure> http://opencascade.wikidot.com/ru:curves-interpolation-and-approximation
16:40 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=f9d38bb5 Bryan Bishop: add link to opencascade wiki thin >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/cad/opencascade/
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16:47 < QuantumG> @JeffGreason says the only way to get $$$ is to send thick-skinned people out to ask for it!
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16:50 < QuantumG> good advice
16:54 < kanzure> you definitely have to ask, that's for sure
16:57 < kanzure> "Same thing is being done for Rollercoaster Tycoon 2 right now, though it patches the original .exe to use a .dll file that override the original ASM addresses and calls with C functions. I really, really like the maintainers gradual replacement approach."
16:57 < kanzure> https://github.com/IntelOrca/OpenRCT2/
16:57 < kanzure> hrm.
16:57 < QuantumG> that's pretty easy
16:58 < eudoxia> i tried assigning malloc to a different pointer once and it didn't work
16:59 < gradstudentbot> Cancer: still not cured.
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17:07 < kanzure> "So let's look at the ship's engineer. Supposedly, there's a reason there's an engineer on board a ship, things break down and need maintenance on a voyage. So automated or no automation, it seems like he's still going to be needed. If he's not, why hasn't that role (and his team) already been eliminated as a labor cost? Not even Star Trek figured out a way to automate away the engineer on a large ship. Smaller vessels don't need an engineer ...
17:08 < kanzure> ... aboard, but their voyage time at sea is shorter, so the "ship's engineer" role is relegated to a land-based job and split across several vessels - we call these guys mechanics when dealing with cars."
17:08 < kanzure> "Here's a video of a container ship engine room https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41priD5GJyY It looks pretty automated today, yet there's still a ship's engineer aboard. I bet that the equation is spend a few hundred dollars a day on a guy or risk losing hundreds of millions of dollars of cargo because the automated system had a fault on a fuel pump or something."
17:08 < kanzure> "But I suppose you could start splitting duty across ships, have an engineer basically helicopter around to ships to do inspections and solve limited issues. But how many ships does an engineer have to fly around to to make up the cost difference of having him flown around vs just having guys on board?"
17:08 < ParahSailin> risk of pirates capturing humans for ransom is higher than risk of robot losing cargo
17:09 < ParahSailin> human ransom is usually about 1 mil a head
17:09 < QuantumG> and container ships move around billions in cargo
17:11 < kanzure> what can those engineer people do without a machine shop on board? tighten some bolts ?
17:11 < ParahSailin> i imagine those things are pretty hard to sink and lose everything
17:11 < kanzure> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-25/computer-controlled-trucks-taking-over-in-pilbara-mining-wa/5412642
17:11 < ParahSailin> and yeah, what are humans going to do to mitigate a disaster that would totally wreck the ship
17:12 < QuantumG> what makes ya think they don't have a machine shop on board?
17:12 < QuantumG> every large ship does
17:12 < kanzure> as far as i know, only carriers have machine shops on board?
17:12 < kanzure> *aircraft carriers
17:12 < QuantumG> heh, no
17:13 < kanzure> oh good
17:13 < QuantumG> but anyway, replacing parts with spares is probably their major work
17:13 < QuantumG> (i.e., as it is everywhere since Ford)
17:13 < ParahSailin> there are machine shops on container ships?
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17:15 < QuantumG> so I read somewhere.. at least a lathe and a mill, a drill press and a smattering of other tools. I've never actually been on a container ship myself.
17:15 < kanzure> i want one
17:16 < QuantumG> I wouldn't expect to find CNC tools
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17:24 < QuantumG> I've still yet to see anyone using a two armed robot remotely to do anything difficult.. maybe I just don't know where to look?
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17:29 < kanzure> "One thing that surprises some who have been using StartSSL for a some time is that a while ago a "non commercial use only" clause was added to the free certificates. I don't know how they police that if they do at all, but if your friend's site was taking money for services that may explain the change from his/her account's PoV."
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17:31 < QuantumG> could this video be more boring? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTicVqXo260
17:32 < QuantumG> at least this one has a girl in it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMGeAdOGIy0
17:33 < kanzure> .title http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTicVqXo260
17:33 < yoleaux> Baxter Robot teleoperated with Hydra / Oculus Rift
17:33 < kanzure> .title http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMGeAdOGIy0
17:33 < yoleaux> Baxter Master Slave Teleoperation
17:34 < QuantumG> this look like the state of the art in "useful" teleoperation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_J1oI1V8X8
17:36 <@jrayhawk> oh, totally hadn't noticed that non-commercial thing
17:37 < kanzure> .title
17:37 < yoleaux> Baxter teleoperated by JamBoxx to retrieve item from shelf (Head Camera and Hand Camera Views)
17:37 < QuantumG> the example people always give me for teleoperated excellence is surgical robots... and then completely fail to show why it's never been applied outside that specific application.
17:38 < kanzure> probably because they slap on a $1 million price tag or something stupid
17:38 < kanzure> and then nobody wants to buy it to commercialize it in another industry
17:39 < QuantumG> I think the reason is that it's a lot easier to make a 10cm^3 manipulation environment than it is to make a 10m^3 manipulation enviornment
17:40 < QuantumG> ... and with tel-surgery they still have humans there to open up the patient, shove in the end effectors and babysit it.
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17:42 < QuantumG> the equivalent of tele-surgery on a car would be a grease monkey with FaceTime getting advice from a remote expert.
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17:43 < QuantumG> there's a business model for ya.. take all the mechanics out of the workshop, put 'em in front of "teleoperation" workstations and put headsets on high-school dropouts to be the robots.
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17:46 < kanzure> QuantumG: yeah, i was wondering about that a few weeks ago in here
17:46 < QuantumG> I mean those cool headsets with the camera built in.  If you want to get really fancy, stick a laser pointer on a pan-tilt head so the teleoperator can point at what he's talking about.
17:46 < kanzure> QuantumG: since people do remote debugging over the phone, just add video
17:46 < kanzure> but there's certainly some tasks that seem to require motor memory or skills, like not fucking up my chair on the lathe etc
17:47 < kanzure> not all tasks are high precision at least
17:47 < kanzure> requiring all of your tools, equipment and parts to be in *your* local workshop might be quaint in the end if you can really just dial up a person to remotely control for a few hours
17:47 < kanzure> (and eventually it will be a robot anyway?)
17:50 < QuantumG> I guess the laser pointer could just be fixed beside the camera, which has pan-tilt, and turned on-off
17:52 < QuantumG> but yeah, having one "custodian" who does all your manual labor but can call up experts or be called up by experts to perform some tasks would be doable, I guess.
17:52 < kanzure> have you seen http://transcriptic.com/ they sort of do this for life sciences
17:53 < QuantumG> neat
17:53 < kanzure> yeah i dunno about expertise in that scenario; if expertise is variable you will have weird results. better just tell your users that the walkers are "low skill", because otherwise if they end up on the person who doesn't know how to do a 360 on a skateboard they will be annoyed or something
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17:54 < QuantumG> need more assay services.
17:54 < kanzure> i'm still stuck on whether or not i should be pimping non-local lab/workshop equipment
17:55 < kanzure> i *like* having equipment nearby
17:55 < gradstudentbot> MOTHERFUCKER OUR PAPER JUST GOT LEAKED
17:56 < QuantumG> I wanna try vegetarianianism.. then I can say I only eat vegetarians.
17:57 < QuantumG> they're probably a bit stringy.
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17:59 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=3b363e3d Bryan Bishop: use mocks for opencascade >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/cad/opencascade/
17:59 < winny> hi what is the license of the https://github.com/kanzure/streak repo
18:00 < kanzure> what would you like it to be?
18:00 < winny> AGPL
18:00 < gradstudentbot> It's not really significant, but there's definitely a trend.
18:00 < winny> ;)
18:00 < winny> nice commit message, btw I am a teapot
18:01 < kanzure> you should just use https://github.com/gelstudios/gitfiti
18:01 < winny> LOL
18:01 < winny> thanks
18:01 < kanzure> oh damn no license either
18:01 < winny> perhaps i should open an issue
18:01 < kanzure> how about this one https://github.com/pikesley/pokrovsky
18:01 < winny> i love it how people use github for nonfree stuff
18:02 < winny> public repos
18:02 < kanzure> no license on this one either https://github.com/mappum/gitbanner
18:02 < kanzure> welp you're screwed
18:02 < kanzure> you're welcome to use my stuff (public domain license)
18:02 < winny> thanks
18:02 < kanzure> in particular my streak.git repo
18:02 < winny> so what's the backstory on it?
18:02 < QuantumG> yawn, I still have proprietary data files in sourceforge, it's awesome.
18:02 < kanzure> backstory is i was feeling mischevious
18:02 < winny> saw your repo from HN iirc and at first i was sad but now i see it's all lulz
18:02 < kanzure> it was before gitfiti and gitbanner
18:03 < kanzure> well i do commit every day
18:03 < kanzure> on actual real things
18:03 < kanzure> so it's not all smoke and mirrors =)
18:04 < winny> =)
18:05 < winny> you know your pokemon crystal disassembly is on HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7767820
18:05 < nsh> .t
18:05 < yoleaux> Tue, 20 May 2014 01:05:48 UTC
18:05 < nsh> .title
18:05 < kanzure> i commented a few times on that page
18:05 < yoleaux> Pokémon Crystal disassembled source code
18:05 < winny> thanks yoleaux
18:06 < nsh> .py "you're welcome"
18:06 < yoleaux> you're welcome
18:06 < winny> .py s = ''; while True: s += 'z'
18:06 < yoleaux> SyntaxError: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
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18:07 -!- entelechy [~elysium@mail.2bett.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
18:07 < winny> .help py
18:07 < yoleaux> Evaluate an expression in Python
18:07 < winny> .py not 1
18:07 < yoleaux> False
18:08 < QuantumG> .py [31 if x > 12 else 0 for x in [11,12,13]]
18:08 < yoleaux> [0, 0, 31]
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18:09 < winny> .py range(2^666)
18:09 < yoleaux> [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101,
18:10 < needPaperbot> .py print("b")
18:10 < yoleaux> b
18:11 < needPaperbot> .py while 1==1:\nprint("a")
18:11 < yoleaux> SyntaxError: unexpected character after line continuation character (<string>, line 1)
18:11 < needPaperbot> .py while 1==1:\n\tprint("a")
18:11 < yoleaux> SyntaxError: unexpected character after line continuation character (<string>, line 1)
18:11 < kanzure> be nice to the bots
18:11 < needPaperbot> ok
18:11 < winny> .py import urllib2; print(urllib2.urlopen('http://ifconfig.me/ip').read())
18:11 < yoleaux> 8.35.201.44
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18:12 < winny> .py import sys; print(sys.version)
18:12 < yoleaux> 2.5.2 (r252:60911, Oct  4 2012, 10:20:32)
18:12 < kanzure> .py import requests; print(requests.get('http://httpbin.org/get').json())
18:12 < yoleaux> ImportError: No module named requests
18:12 < winny> ewww
18:12 < kanzure> shrug
18:12 < kanzure> not my bot
18:12 < winny> :)
18:13 < needPaperbot> .py if true:; print("a")
18:13 < yoleaux> SyntaxError: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
18:13 < QuantumG> .py if true: print("a")
18:13 < yoleaux> NameError: name 'true' is not defined
18:13 < needPaperbot> a = "a"; a = a*1000; print a
18:13 < QuantumG> .py if True: print("a")
18:13 < yoleaux> a
18:13 < QuantumG> there ya go
18:13 < gradstudentbot> So, there's this really good conference in Spain that I want to attend.
18:13 < gradstudentbot> Okay, someone really needs to do the lab dishes.
18:14 < needPaperbot> QuantumG: oh, I don't need \n\t?
18:14 < QuantumG> not by the looks of it
18:14 < needPaperbot> .py a = "a"; a = a*1000; print a
18:14 < yoleaux> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
18:14 < needPaperbot> hehe
18:14 < needPaperbot> .py print("/msg needPaperbot test")
18:14 < yoleaux> /msg needPaperbot test
18:16 < winny> .py from sys import stdout; t, stdout = stdout, open('/dev/null', 'wb'); import this, random; stdout = t; print(random.choice(this.s))
18:16 < yoleaux> IOError: invalid mode: wb
18:16 < winny> .py from sys import stdout; t, stdout = stdout, open('/dev/null', 'w'); import this, random; stdout = t; print(random.choice(this.s))
18:16 < yoleaux> IOError: invalid mode: w
18:16 < ThomasEgi> mind if i poke that bot a bit?
18:16 < winny> .py import this, random; print(random.choice(this.s))
18:16 < yoleaux> The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters
18:16 < winny> .py import this, random; print(random.choice(this.s))
18:16 < yoleaux> g
18:17 < winny> .py import this, random; print(random.choice(this.s.split('\n')))
18:17 < yoleaux> Fvzcyr vf orggre guna pbzcyrk.
18:17 < winny> lol.
18:17 < needPaperbot> import numpy; a = numpy.add(1,2); print a
18:17 < winny> yes, do you mind if i poke hard?
18:17 < needPaperbot> .py import numpy; a = numpy.add(1,2); print a
18:17 < yoleaux> ImportError: No module named numpy
18:17 < winny> .py import this, random; print(random.choice(this.d.split('\n')))
18:17 < yoleaux> AttributeError: 'dict' object has no attribute 'split'
18:18 < needPaperbot> .py import system
18:18 < yoleaux> ImportError: No module named system
18:18 < ThomasEgi> don't you guys have a terminal to try such stuff out?
18:18 < winny> who has python 2.5 installed >:-) ?
18:18 < needPaperbot> ThomasEgi: But then you don't know I'm trying it out
18:18 < ThomasEgi> .py import dbus
18:18 < yoleaux> ImportError: No module named dbus
18:18 -!- realzies [~pinky@unaffiliated/realazthat] has quit [Quit: realzies]
18:18 < ThomasEgi> sad. no system.. no dbus.
18:19 < ThomasEgi> no fun
18:19 < ParahSailin> .py import sys; print sys.executable
18:19 < yoleaux> /base/
18:19  * needPaperbot wonders if he can write an irc bot in irx
18:19 < winny> .py import os; print os.getlogin()
18:19 < yoleaux> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'getlogin'
18:19 < needPaperbot> *irc
18:20 < winny> .py import os; print os.environ['USER']
18:20 < yoleaux> apphosting
18:20 < needPaperbot> .py import os; os.listdir()
18:20 < yoleaux> TypeError: listdir() takes exactly 1 argument (0 given)
18:20 < ThomasEgi> .py dir(os)
18:20 < yoleaux> ['EX_CANTCREAT', 'EX_CONFIG', 'EX_DATAERR', 'EX_IOERR', 'EX_NOHOST', 'EX_NOINPUT', 'EX_NOPERM', 'EX_NOUSER', 'EX_OK', 'EX_OSERR', 'EX_OSFILE', 'EX_PROTOCOL', 'EX_SOFTWARE', 'EX_TEMPFAIL', 'EX_UNAVAILABLE', 'EX_USAGE', 'F_OK', 'NGROUPS_MAX', 'O_APPEND', 'O_CREAT', 'O_DIRECT', 'O_DIRECTORY', 'O_DSYNC', 'O_EXCL', 'O_LARGEFILE', 'O_NDELAY', 'O_NOCTTY', 'O_NOFOLLOW', 'O_NONBLOCK', 'O_RDONLY', 'O_RDWR',
18:20 < winny> .py import os; print os.uname()
18:20 < yoleaux> ('Linux', '', '', '', '')
18:20 < needPaperbot> .py import os; os.listdir("/")
18:20 < yoleaux> OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/'
18:20 < kanzure> go ask the guys in #swhack if you want the source code
18:20 < winny> looks monkey patched
18:21 < needPaperbot> .py import os; os.listdir("/home/kanzure")
18:21 < yoleaux> OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/home/kanzure'
18:21 < winny> the user is apphosting
18:21 < needPaperbot> is this on your computer kanzure?
18:22 < kanzure> not my bot
18:22 < kanzure> it's run by the people in #swhack
18:23 < winny> .py import os; print '{USER} {HOME}'.format(**os.environ)
18:23 < yoleaux> AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'format'
18:23 < needPaperbot> import socket
18:23 < needPaperbot> .py import socket
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18:23 < needPaperbot> ok :(
18:23 -!- realzies [~pinky@unaffiliated/realazthat] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:23 < winny> .py from os import environ as e; print '%s %s' % (e['USER'], e['HOME'])
18:23 < yoleaux> KeyError: 'HOME'
18:24 < needPaperbot> .py import numpt
18:24 < yoleaux> ImportError: No module named numpt
18:24 < needPaperbot> .py import socket; print("a")
18:24 < yoleaux> a
18:24 < winny> .py import os; print '%s %s' % (os.environ['USER'], os.getcwd())
18:24 < yoleaux> apphosting /base/data/home/apps/tumbolia/1.350949564586199535
18:25 < winny> .py import socket; dir(socket
18:25 < yoleaux> SyntaxError: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)
18:25 < winny> .py import socket; dir(socket)
18:26 < needPaperbot> .py import socket; s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM); s.connect(('irc.freenode.net', '6667')); irc.recv(4096)
18:26 < yoleaux> FeatureNotEnabledError: The Socket API will be enabled for this application once billing has been enabled in the admin console.
18:28 < ThomasEgi> .py a = True ; b = False ; True = b ; False = a ; a = 0 ; b = 0
18:29 < winny> .py from random import choice; print('Do I have enough snacks? ... %s' % choice(['yes', 'no']))
18:29 < yoleaux> Do I have enough snacks? ... no
18:30 < winny> :(
18:30 < kanzure> .botsnack
18:30 < yoleaux> :D
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18:32 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, but that was only a sample size of one.
18:32 < winny> list of two elements
18:33 < winny> takes an iterable and chooses one
18:33 < winny> .py from random import choice; print('Do I have enough snacks? ... %s' % choice(['yes', 'no']))
18:33 < yoleaux> Do I have enough snacks? ... no
18:33 < winny> .py from random import choice; print('Do I have enough snacks? ... %s' % choice(['yes', 'no']))
18:33 < yoleaux> Do I have enough snacks? ... yes
18:33 -!- realzies [~pinky@unaffiliated/realazthat] has quit [Client Quit]
18:34 < winny> .py import random; print(random.choice.__doc__.split('\n')[0])
18:34 < yoleaux> Choose a random element from a non-empty sequence.
18:37 < winny> .py def summary(o): return '%s: %s' % (o.__name__, o.__doc__.split('\n', 1)[0]); import random; print summary(random.choice)
18:37 < winny> oh, right.
18:38 < winny> .py summary = lambda o: '%s: %s' % (o.__name__, o.__doc__.split('\n', 1)[0]); import random; print summary(random.choice)
18:38 < yoleaux> choice: Choose a random element from a non-empty sequence.
18:39 < QuantumG> so, is R next?
18:39 < ThomasEgi> .py import subprocess
18:39 < winny> this bot does R?
18:39 < kanzure> go ask #swhack
18:39 < ThomasEgi> .py import shlex
18:40 < QuantumG> .py a = 22
18:40 < QuantumG> .py print(a)
18:40 < yoleaux> NameError: name 'a' is not defined
18:40 < QuantumG> drats
18:40 < winny> .py print(locals())
18:41 < yoleaux> {'output': <StringIO.StringIO instance at 0x59f77e56b34cd808>, 'self': <service.py.Main object at 0x59f77e56b3c1fe88>, 'args': ('/print%28locals%28%29%29', 'print%28locals%28%29%29'), 'command': 'print(locals())'}
18:41 < winny> .py print(globals())
18:41 < yoleaux> {'load': <function load at 0x59f77e56b3e11a38>, 'text': <function text at 0x59f77e56b3e11388>, 'codecs': <module 'codecs' from '/base/data/home/runtimes/python/python_dist/lib/python2.5/codecs.py'>, 'datetime': <module 'datetime' (built-in)>, 'api': <module 'google.appengine.api' from '/base/data/home/runtimes/python/python_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/api/__init__.py'>, 'encodings': <module 'e
18:42 < winny> .py print(globals().keys())
18:42 < yoleaux> ['load', 'text', 'codecs', 'datetime', 'api', 'encodings', 'operator', 'path', 'dateutil', 'Main', 'base64', 'BeautifulSoup', 'urllib', 're', 'json', 'feedparser', 'collections', 'new', 'csv', 'urllib2', 'glob', 'xml', 'mimetypes', 'random', 'run', 'string', 'simplejson', 'get', '__builtins__', '__file__', 'time', 'htmlentitydefs', 'textwrap', 'mailbox', 'sys', 'pytz', 'base', 'getopt', '__name__'
18:42 < ThomasEgi> ok.. my last line i'll try with this bot.. either it's success... or failure..
18:42 < ThomasEgi> .py import shlex, subprocess; args = shlex.split("dbus-send --print-reply --system --dest=org.freedesktop.Hal /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/computer org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.SystemPowerManagement.Shutdown"); p = subprocess.Popen(args)
18:42 < yoleaux> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'Popen'
18:42 < winny> .py print(globals().keys()[15:)
18:42 < yoleaux> SyntaxError: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)
18:42 < winny> .py print(globals().keys()[15:])
18:42 < yoleaux> ['feedparser', 'collections', 'new', 'csv', 'urllib2', 'glob', 'xml', 'mimetypes', 'random', 'run', 'string', 'simplejson', 'get', '__builtins__', '__file__', 'time', 'htmlentitydefs', 'textwrap', 'mailbox', 'sys', 'pytz', 'base', 'getopt', '__name__', 'copy', 'md5', 'minidom', '__compiled__', 'unicodedata', 'unescape', 'socket', 'StringIO', 'zlib', '__doc__', 'urlparse', 'soup', 'itertools', 'htm
18:42 < winny> .py print(globals().keys()[30:])
18:42 < yoleaux> ['time', 'htmlentitydefs', 'textwrap', 'mailbox', 'sys', 'pytz', 'base', 'getopt', '__name__', 'copy', 'md5', 'minidom', '__compiled__', 'unicodedata', 'unescape', 'socket', 'StringIO', 'zlib', '__doc__', 'urlparse', 'soup', 'itertools', 'html2text', 'chardet', 'sets', 'gzip', 'quopri', 'os']
18:42 < ThomasEgi> darn.. even tho subprocess was available :D
18:43 < winny> not heard of __compiled__ before
18:43 < winny> that where py stores bytecode obj?
18:43 < kanzure> have you used google app engine?
18:43 < winny> nah
18:43 < kanzure> you've been using it for the past umpteen minutes
18:44 < winny> i mean, i have no deployed on google app engine
18:44 < kanzure> there is no reason to live without deployment
18:46 < winny> .rb
18:46 < winny> .rb nil
18:46 < winny> .version
18:47 < winny> i concur
18:50 < winny> are you a transhumanist
18:53 < kanzure> yes
18:53 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/declaration
18:53 < winny> i used to be  a transhumanist until reality bit me in the butt, secretly i still am
18:54 < kanzure> there's a bunch of crap you have to wade through, but it works out okay if you ignore it and just do whatever you need to do
18:55 < winny> i agree
18:55 < winny> are you funded by nra
18:55 < kanzure> only in my head
18:55 < kanzure> i have been thinking about submitting a grant proposal to them
18:55 < kanzure> to fund a "gene gun"
18:56 < kanzure> but then i'd have to actually communicate with them, and i don't know if i want to bother.
18:56 < winny> LOL
18:59 < needPaperbot> winny: I've heard this channel is sponsored by charles schwabb
18:59 < kanzure> pfft
19:00 < kanzure> i also work, you know
19:00 < winny> sponsored by the FSF
19:00 < needPaperbot> kanzure: you pay for this channel yourself?
19:00 < winny> i loled irl
19:00 < kanzure> needPaperbot: yes i buy people equipment because everyone's broke around here
19:00 < winny> <needPaperbot>	 kanzure: you pay for this channel yourself?
19:01 < needPaperbot> kanzure: do you buy it in litecoins?
19:01 < winny> in kongbucks
19:01 < kanzure> i'm not aware of any suppliers that accept cryptocurrency at the moment
19:01 < needPaperbot> I suppose equipment is vague
19:01 < needPaperbot> I was thinking stuff you could buy on tigerdirect
19:02 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/tree/doc/BOMs/diybio-equipment.yaml
19:04 < needPaperbot> kanzure: so in the future will I be able to put an skdb doc into a website and it will make a cart for me?
19:05 < kanzure> http://gnusha.org/skdb
19:05 < kanzure> well hopefully it will be more like apt-get
19:05 < kanzure> the implementation has a lot of problems
19:05 < kanzure> (design problems)
19:06 < needPaperbot> skdb buy diybio-equipment
19:06 < gradstudentbot> The culture got contaminated.
19:09 < needPaperbot> Are you sure? This will require 2093900 Bits [Y/n]
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19:13 < eudoxia> hello i saw that there was an skdb conversation going on
19:21 < kanzure> you missed it
19:22 < eudoxia> :/
19:22 < QuantumG> must have blinked
19:22 < eudoxia> i *should* have something to ping me when this happens
19:23 < eudoxia> keywords: MNT, drexler, nanosystems, skdb, WBE, satoshi, eleitl, merkle, freitas, KSRM
19:23 < kanzure> surely we're worth more than that
19:23 < kanzure> how about any time ParahSailin says the word 'media' or 'peptide'
19:23 < kanzure> or 'bovine'
19:24 < eudoxia> maybe if i pay attention during the genes talk i'll stop being such a huge biopleb
19:25 < eudoxia> i might even warm up a little to richard jones and his anti-MNT propaganda
19:25 < QuantumG> https://www.google.com/search?q=freitas&tbm=isch <- not nano
19:27 < eudoxia> meh, it would be a good enough approximation
19:27 < eudoxia> next: a chatterbot that keeps the conversation going until i can catch it
19:29 < kanzure> or what about not waiting, and just say whatever it is you want to say
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19:35 < QuantumG> The first practical proposal for building a DMS tool experimentally was published in 2005 [19] and is the subject of the first diamond mechanosynthesis patent ever issued (in 2010) [19].
19:36 < QuantumG> oh.. that's what killed your research..
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19:37 < QuantumG> I always wondered why they got to the minimal toolset paper and then went dark
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19:40 < QuantumG> "After demonstration of basic DMS, the next major experimental milestone may be the mechanosynthetic fabrication of atomically precise 3D structures, creating readily accessible diamondoid-based nanomechanical components engineered to form desired architectures possessing superlative mechanical strength, stiffness, and strength-to-weight ratio."
19:40 < QuantumG> .. or you could just write more speculative papers about the brave future of nanomedicine, dude.
19:40 < kanzure> he probably doesn't have his own afm
19:44 < kanzure> needPaperbot: not just buying equipment, but getting details on what to do to build it yourself
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19:51 < kanzure> "The difference is subtle: While GC creates passed-around-by-reference objects from the Geom package, gce creates equivalent passed-around-by-value objects from the gc package. The GC functions for creating 2d primitives are residing in the GCE2d package."
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20:33 < kanzure> "The Production Automation Project (PAP) was founded at the University of Rochester in 1972 and disbanded in 1987. During its 15-year life, the PAP contributed to the foundations of solid modeling, developed core technology for CSG modeling systems and applications of solid modeling, and provided codifications of the field that are reflected today in the research literature, textbooks, and university courses"
20:33 < kanzure> .title https://urresearch.rochester.edu/viewInstitutionalCollection.action;jsessionid=A56B8B95237A6F3E57241E453B81C49E?collectionId=73
20:33 < yoleaux> Institutional Collection: PAP Technical Reports, Memoranda
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20:35 < kanzure> "This document provides an informal introduction to PADL, a language for defining "simple" mechanical parts and assemblies." https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=1002
20:41 < kanzure> "PADL's major weakness surely is clear to all readers: it cannot cover all parts. Indeed, the only parts that can be defined in PADL-1.0 are those made from blocks and cylinders ... and not arbitrarily oriented blocks and cylinders, but only 'orthogonal' or 'rectilinear' blocks and cylinders. Is the weakness fatal? Quite the contrary, we suggest it is latently advantageous. We reason as follows."
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20:42 < kanzure> "PADL's descriptive power can be extended almost arbitrarily, in a very systematic manner, merely by enlarging the set of primitive solids and by providing a rotational operator. But, one pays a steeply rising price for such power in several kind sof coin, the most obvious being computational workload and storage requirements. Less obviously, users of potent-PADL will find themselves severely taxed if they really seek to exploit the geometric ...
20:42 < kanzure> ... variety at their command. (Part specifications currently must be devised by humans, and the specifications of complicated parts are complicated, no matter how powerful the defining medium.) Finally and ominously, parts defined in potent-PADL may be fiercely expensive to manufacture, inspect, and assemble. Thus the extension of the PADl approach to cover great eometric variety is assuredly possible, but the result may be frauht with ...
20:42 < kanzure> ... practical dangers."
20:43 < kanzure> "The key to effective automation in the batch production industries lies in rationalizing the design of parts and assemblies."
20:43 < kanzure> "The key to effective functional (non-aesthetic) design lies in exploiting the diversity offered by combinations of very simple elements of very few types."
20:44 < kanzure> "We are suggesting that the 'modelling-clay freedom' designers now use and sometimes abuse be curbed throuh imposition of Meccano-like geometric discipline ... and that PADL-like systems be employed as unemtotional enforcers of the discipline."
20:45 < kanzure> "As a partial paradigm we cite the electronics industry, where the custom designed and custom crafted circuits of the 1920s-1950s have been displaced by aggregates of individually cheap, standard 'chips'.. to everyone's advantage. The innate creativity of electronic designers has NOT been stifled by 'chip discipline'; it has merely been rechanneled toward system (rather than circuit) design, and system design on a scale that presents really ...
20:45 < kanzure> ... exciting opportunities. Could a similar revolution occur in the mechanical industries if geometric aggregation were to replace geometric customization?"
20:47 < kanzure> maybe this is just their way of being extremely apologetic about writing extremely limited software
20:50 < needPaperbot> kanzure: what client are you using? irssi just cuts off the text instead of using ellipses to continue
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20:51 < kanzure> needPaperbot: irssi
20:51 < needPaperbot> kanzure: any settings in the config?
20:51 < kanzure> perl plugin :(
20:51 < needPaperbot> why :(
20:51 < ParahSailin> kanzure never pastes
20:51 < ParahSailin> that is just his typing speed
20:52 < kanzure> at least someone knows me around here :pouts:
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20:58 < kanzure> "Libraries of PADL-like (or informationally equivalent) object definitions will be essential to provide precise specifications of new and standard parts, assemblies, and stock. Such libraries can also contain geometric approximations of tool structures and fixtures that are adequate for process-planning purposes. If suitable 'Capability Files' are added to this base, one has data sufficient for automatic manufacturing, (and probably assembly) ...
20:59 < kanzure> ... planning, and for NC-tool and manipulator programming. Note the word 'suitable': it means that capabilities must be represented in a manner that is mathematically compatible with the means used to represent objects, i.e. as (potential) transformations on object models."
20:59 < kanzure> "Now, how wooly is Fig. 7 -- or more positively, what must be done to reach the broad goals it implieis?"
20:59 < kanzure> fig. 8: the woolyness of fig. 7 with respect to time
20:59 < kanzure> .ety wooly
20:59 < yoleaux> wooly (adj.): "also woolly, 1570s, "resembling or made of wool," from wool + -y (2). Meaning "barbarous, rude" is recorded 1891, from wild and wooly (1884) applied to the U.S. western frontier, perhaps in reference to range steers or to unkempt cowboys." — http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=wooly
21:00 < kanzure> nsh: is this a britishism
21:02 < kanzure> "Automatic design appears to be much farther away. It poses theoretical issues that seem very difficult, but perhaps only because no one is attacking or even defining them today. (We know of only one engineer who is studying design in a manner that, in our opinion, has a reasonable chance of yielding genuinely significant results, and his work is oriented toward chemical-process synthesis [3].)"
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21:04 < kanzure> "The PADL processor executes at present in a PDP-11/40 computing system (28K 16-bit words, twin RK05 disks) under DOS-V9."
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21:11 < QuantumG> what a beast
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21:17 < kanzure> "We concluded some time ago that there is no 'theory of engineering drawing' worthy of the name, and that a formal basis of any type for object specification is largely lacking. We also concluded that it is not sensible to seek such a basis through a close study of drawings. A proper theory of mechanical specification should be built using whatever principles seem most appropriate. The choice of principles is an inductive exercise and cannot ...
21:17 < kanzure> ... 'be explained' deductively. if the theory is to be useful, however, it should encompass practical requirements."
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21:41 < kanzure> "Reasonable response times can only be achieved if BReps are updated rapidly, and therefore incremental algorithms (either for boundary merging or incremental boundary evaluation) must be used. (This situation may change when VLSI chips for generating displays directly from CSG become available [Kedem and Ellis 1984].)"
21:41 < kanzure> yesss a solid modeling asic
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21:57 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=0e9cc69a Bryan Bishop: also capture the linuxcnc wiki >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/wikis/
21:57 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=f405e8ba Bryan Bishop: explain difference between the gc and gce modules in opencascade >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/cad/opencascade/
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22:38 < needPaperbot> kanzure, you mentioned that you like it when people use blockchains when they aren't necessary right? https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCoQtwIwAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.kickstarter.com%2Fprojects%2F612530753%2Fgitchain&ei=aOp6U7eRDpWryASqKg&usg=AFQjCNF0WWOlEGaWQkpoq_FdAfYsdqYx7Q&bvm=bv.67229260,d.aWw
22:39 < kanzure> is this gitchain and do i have to click
22:39 < kanzure> ugh
22:40 < needPaperbot> Sorry, I forgot about how google links were...
22:40 < needPaperbot> https://github.com/gitchain/gitchain
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22:40 < needPaperbot> lol
22:41 < kanzure> not gonna look
22:41 < kanzure> you can't stop me!
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22:41 < needPaperbot> I can't stop you from not looking?
22:41 < needPaperbot> triple negative
22:42 < kanzure> you can't prove that
22:43 < needPaperbot> !!!(you looking)
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23:05 < kanzure> .ssl https://www.cengagebrain.com/s
23:06 < kanzure> whoops
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23:09  * fenn comes up for air
23:10 <@fenn> the net is vast and deep
23:11 < kanzure> no that's just the sense of nothingness from writing too many emails
23:11 < kanzure> all 2 of them
23:16 < kanzure> .wik .kkrieger
23:16 < yoleaux> ".kkrieger (from Krieger, German for warrior) is a first-person shooter video game created by German demogroup .theprodukkt (a former subdivision of Farbrausch) which won first place in the 96k game competition at Breakpoint in April 2004. The game remains a beta version as of 2012[update]." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.kkrieger
23:17 < kanzure> .wik Asmutils
23:17 < yoleaux> "Asmutils is a rewrite of the standard Unix commands in assembly language aimed to have smallest possible size of ELF executables. All standard Unix commands (ls, cat, sh, etc.) executables are less than one kilobyte in size." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asmutils
23:21 <@fenn> farbrausch is pretty good
23:21 < xmj> whats that?
23:21 <@fenn> i have to admit i don't really get the whole "demo scene" concept - why make software and then just throw it away?
23:22 < xmj> Why the hell not?
23:22 <@fenn> xmj: farbrausch is a demo scene production group
23:22 < xmj> People buy Prada because they want to show off.
23:22 <@fenn> well, for one thing, it annoys people like me who want to re-use your neato shit but you didn't even bother to license it
23:22 <@fenn> like, not even a wtfpl
23:23 <@fenn> "what's licensing? we're stuck in the 80's"
23:23 < xmj> so ? can just ask them.
23:23 <@fenn> good luck
23:23 < xmj> github issue, "Add license", propose MIT/BSD/ISC licenses.
23:23 <@fenn> no version control
23:24 < xmj> find email, sendmail, rinse repeat
23:24 < xmj> or just do what the fuck you want, and give credit.
23:24 <@fenn> i will probably do that
23:25 <@fenn> rather than wandering the time tunnels looking for lost email addresses
23:26 <@fenn> is it just me or are there way more broken links on the internet in the past few years?
23:26 < xmj> less, actually
23:27 < xmj> everyone *can* automate broken-link-checking. but there's a definitely higher churn among blogs..
23:27 <@fenn> apparently people on tumblr change their url like we change nicks on IRC
23:28 <@fenn> kids these days...
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23:30 < xmj> do you change your nick on IRC often?
23:33 <@fenn> no, but some people do
23:33 < xmj> meh
23:33 < xmj> this isn't quakenet.
23:33 < kanzure> yeah, irc matters here
23:33 < kanzure> cough
23:34 < xmj> well,
23:34 <@fenn> Welcome to IRC Matters, your premier source for IRC related talk show entertainment
23:34 < xmj> I've had interesting business prospects via IRC.
23:34 < kanzure> like immortality
23:34 <@fenn> today's guest joins us from central europe, discussing the commercial side of IRC and how it can benefit you
23:35 < xmj> haha
23:35 < xmj> Thank you fenn. As you're all aware, the IRC has a history of bringing together great minds. Back in the eighties when it was created by some bored US grad students, ...
23:36 < kanzure> gradstudentbot: you're up
23:36 < gradstudentbot> I don't know whether I am Turing dreaming that I am a machine, or a machine dreaming that I am Turing!
23:36 < xmj> they set out to shape what would then become known as Internet Relay chat.
23:36 < xmj> Bingo.
23:36 < xmj> <3 bullshit
23:36 <@fenn> soon IRC evolved into the premiere network for international malware distribution and botnet control, a legacy that continues to this day with the T9000 hunter-killer drone
23:36 < xmj> but there is hope.
23:37 <@fenn> where's the drone gone off to
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23:37 <@fenn> oi, do some damage
23:37 < xmj> All IRC is under botnet control, but for one small channel of indomitable hackers that still hold out against script kiddies.
23:38 <@fenn> we call ourselves, the grandsons of the revolution
23:38 <@fenn> i mean, last defenders of the free world
23:38 < xmj> and we've pledged revenge.
23:38 <@fenn> people's front of IRC
23:39 < xmj> fenn: IRC people's front.
23:39  * xmj is an induvidial.
23:39 < kanzure> i'm not
23:39 <@fenn> someone tell me what to think
23:39 < gradstudentbot> The results of my study indicate that the climate is about to get really weird.
23:39 < kanzure> that wasn't the next line
23:40 < xmj> :)
23:41 <@fenn> you cunt!!! you stupid bird-brained flat-headed...
23:41 < xmj> SPARTA
23:41  * xmj kicks fenn into the never-ending well.
23:42 < xmj> I need to eat more :(
23:44 <@fenn> what's the food like over there
23:45 -!- Adifex|zzz is now known as Adifex
23:45 <@fenn> wikipedia says it's "the beer, vodka, rye bread and pork "belt" of Europe."
23:47 <@fenn> why is it the ingredients for cheesecake are $2/lb but the cheesecake itself is $8/lb
23:47 <@fenn> regardless of the size of the cake
23:48 < xmj> if you're working in IT, the selection is pretty decent.
23:49 < xmj> place I'm going for lunch later serves upscale spanish food, omnomnom
23:51 <@fenn> listening to a robot read alice in wonderland is kind of a mind altering experience
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--- Log closed Tue May 20 00:00:10 2014