--- Log opened Thu May 22 00:00:12 2014 00:08 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-58-169-106-3.lns4.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:17 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:20 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-58-169-106-3.lns4.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:29 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:32 -!- Mokstarboush [~Mokstar@c-24-21-241-171.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:15 -!- kyknos [~kyknos@89.233.130.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:19 -!- sapiosexual [~sapiosexu@d205-250-248-42.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:19 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:23 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:30 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:31 -!- night is now known as Adifex|zzz 02:36 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:47 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:33 -!- pilenin [~asakharov@24.60.79.55] has quit [Quit: quit] 03:58 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-58-169-106-3.lns4.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:59 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-58-169-106-3.lns4.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:38 <@_archels> http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140520-the-girls-who-never-age 05:09 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:16 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:18 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:39 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-58-169-106-3.lns4.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:43 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-58-169-106-3.lns4.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:48 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-58-169-106-3.lns4.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:48 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-78-147-232-48.as13285.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:49 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-58-169-106-3.lns4.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:53 < kanzure_> you guys are boring 05:53 < ebowden> Oh well. 06:02 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@185.5.8.81] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:02 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@185.5.8.81] has quit [Changing host] 06:02 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:03 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-50-237-107.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:04 < kanzure_> "oh well" is a bad answer. how about be less boring? 06:04 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-78-147-232-48.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:06 < eudoxia> kanzure: http://www.digitalspace.com/papers/nanopap1.html 06:06 < kanzure_> .title 06:06 < yoleaux> kanzure_: Sorry, that command (.title) crashed. 06:07 < kanzure_> .title 06:07 < yoleaux> kanzure_: Sorry, that command (.title) crashed. 06:07 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-58-169-106-3.lns4.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:07 < kanzure_> well at least it's consistently crashy 06:07 < gradstudentbot> Well, that paper was actually retracted. 06:08 < eudoxia> the entire body is in a
and the tag is empty 06:08 < kanzure_> "There is no facility to simulate nanomechanical drive trains 06:08 < kanzure_> or other power systems which must be present to drive structural 06:08 < kanzure_> objects such as sorting rotors or logic rods." 06:09 < gradstudentbot> Hey, let's write a paper about that. 06:10 < gradstudentbot> I think using the laser is making me sterile. 06:12 < eudoxia> ugh what is it with people who have contact forms instead of an email address 06:13 < kanzure_> "i don't have an email address, but what i do have is a 200 by 100 pixel text entry box on a website that stopped working in 1997" 06:14 < eudoxia> some of the links don't work because they have some php in them 06:19 < pasky> so the other night I tried to write up why I started working on question answering... http://pasky.or.cz/dev/brmson/grand-plan.pdf 06:20 < gradstudentbot> I could never be a PI. 06:25 < kanzure_> then why is wolfram alpha still not making much money? 06:26 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:29 <@_archels> and you're going to beat WA, Watson, Siri, DDG, because... 06:30 <@_archels> I wonder what the ratio of man-hours to performance/user satisfaction is on those projects 06:31 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-92-21-205-192.as13285.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:32 < kanzure_> don't be so quick to dismiss brain emulation, nobody has really done much in that department at all 06:32 < kanzure_> (don't fall for perceptron stuff) 06:35 < pasky> wolfram alpha is focusing on structured data and the computational aspects, i think unstructured data are the true treasure trove 06:37 <@_archels> at a lecture yesterday someone dismissingly commented that the best thing all this neuromorphic engineering has given us is identifying cats in youtube videos 06:38 <@_archels> he's probably never tried to build a cat identifier himself 06:38 < kanzure_> unfortunately people consider "artificial neural networks on an asics and fpgas" to be "neuromorphic" 06:38 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@95.5.107.191] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:38 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@95.5.107.191] has quit [Changing host] 06:38 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:38 <@_archels> kanzure_: they can be, sure? 06:38 < pasky> i think ANNs, deep learning etc. is pretty awesome stuff - for solving specific tasks 06:39 < kanzure_> _archels: moving your crappy software to an asic isn't going to fundamentally amke it better 06:39 < kanzure_> *make 06:39 < pasky> but not for building a universal system, and more specifically, not for maintaining big amounts of knowledge 06:40 <@_archels> kanzure_: absolutely, and there's a wide range of models that people refer to as ANNs 06:40 <@_archels> but yeah, early optimisation fallacy. 06:40 < kanzure_> pasky: why do you think statistics is a better approach than brain science? 06:41 < kanzure_> pasky: ANNs etc are all boring and you should forget them 06:41 < pasky> lol 06:41 < pasky> well, brains are optimized for smart behavior, not for knowledge, I believe; the knowledge is just to support behavior 06:41 < pasky> smart people kind of abuse their brains in this regard ;) 06:41 < kanzure_> um, what do i care what the fuck it's optimized for? 06:42 < pasky> i do care when i'm copying it 06:42 < kanzure_> so far the brain is the only device that demonstrates the knowledge or behavior you desire 06:42 < pasky> because if it's been optimized to do X and I want to do Y, it's kind of stupid to copy it because I'll get Y only when I build an almost-equivalent copy 06:43 < kanzure_> you'll only get Y because your copy is bad? don't make a bad copy? 06:44 < kanzure_> "because the brain does multiple things, it is therefore a bad idea" 06:44 < pasky> yes, i do admit i can't build a good copy of a human brain 06:45 < kanzure_> so instead you'll make something totally unrelated and call it ai? 06:45 < pasky> indeed! 06:46 -!- kanzure_ is now known as kanzure 06:46 < pasky> if I build a worse-than-human brain, I have an AI with intelligence of an ant or a rat, which just doesn't seem to be terribly useful 06:47 < pasky> if I build a worse-than-human knowledge processing system, it can still process knowledge, and by huge amounts, possibly making up for deduction ability shortfalls or emulating humans that aren't very good in English or preprocessing data for humans 06:48 < kanzure> "human knowledge processing system" is just hand waving for "something that is ai" 06:49 <@_archels> if you consider a useless toy model that doesn't work very well more important to pursue than a fundamental step in the right direction, that's your call 06:49 <@_archels> sorry, I don't mean to be overly dismissive--it'll surely teach you a lot of useful, practical skills 06:49 < kanzure> i think i'm going to go extremist and claim that: the chances of you failing to build a human emulation are less than the chances of you failing to build a non-human-derived "knowledge processing system" (e.g., something in the same function space that brains occupy, but isn't a brain) 06:49 < pasky> _archels: what's the right direction is tough to guess, isn't it? 06:49 <@_archels> but set reasonable goals and don't advertise it as 'AI' 06:50 < kanzure> yeah, don't call it ai 06:50 <@_archels> no, not really 06:50 < pasky> hmm, why isn't it AI? 06:50 <@_archels> we have about 7 billion working example of how to do it 06:50 < pasky> on hardware we can't feasibly reproduce 06:50 < kanzure> the only thing that "ai" should really mean is "the thing that human brains are doing" 06:51 < kanzure> actually the hardware issue isn't as big of a deal 06:51 <@_archels> your last statement is patently rubbish 06:51 < kanzure> have you read this yet? http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/markram-2006 (the video is also good) 06:52 < pasky> I'll reat that 06:52 < pasky> *read 06:52 < kanzure> actually i guess archels should evaluate the quality of that 06:52 * _archels wonders what the state of natural language processing with ANNs is these days 06:52 < kanzure> since he's the actual neuroperson here 06:53 < kanzure> I AM NOT WORTHY 06:53 < eudoxia> i watched the video and the part about "literally painting onto dendrites" sounded a little woo woo but what do i know 06:53 < kanzure> oh yeah, sure 06:53 < kanzure> well, the voltage modulation between minicolumns is sciencey at least, even if individual dendrite painting is obvious acid tripping 06:54 < kanzure> but he has a billion dollars and you don't, so.. 06:54 < pasky> kanzure: re "human knowledge processing system", I was pretty specific about that being a question answering system; that's something with concrete interface, deliverables and ideal performance, doesn't seem handwavy to me 06:55 < kanzure> that's fine, but i wouldn't call it ai 06:55 < pasky> re "intelligence", I just don't share the view that it should be focused on 1:1 match of human brain capabilities, that seems terribly boring - and less _useful_ than a more general definition 06:55 <@_archels> if you're satisfied with answers that appear to have been translated from English to Chinese and back about 7 times, go for it :) 06:56 < kanzure> we don't have a general definition 06:57 < pasky> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence lists plenty and I think most of them fit 06:57 < kanzure> "A very general mental capability that, among other things, " they mean brain 06:57 < kanzure> "Individuals differ from one another in their ability to understand complex ideas" they mean people with brains 06:58 < pasky> i see no reason why they would 06:58 < kanzure> groundtruthing is really important when working on the big problems 06:58 < pasky> brb lecture 06:59 < kanzure> _archels: i have an idea, 06:59 < kanzure> _archels: let's make an ai that totally ignores the human brain 07:01 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=f4f47b7e Bryan Bishop: yet another abbreviation >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/cad/opencascade/ 07:01 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=d189651c Bryan Bishop: Merge remote-tracking branch 'master' >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/ 07:01 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=b2408cb0 Bryan Bishop: even more abbreviations >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/cad/opencascade/ 07:02 <@_archels> Plato would be proud. 07:05 <@_archels> looks like the Stanford NLP group is working on applying deep learning to NLP 07:05 <@_archels> on the boundary of what goes as 'neuromorphic' for me, though 07:06 < kanzure> i think my boundary of neuromorphic is something like "must, at minimum, have ordinary differential equations rearding different matter squeezing through ion channels in the cell membrane" 07:06 < kanzure> *regarding 07:08 -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@78.174.45.149] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:08 -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@78.174.45.149] has quit [Changing host] 07:08 -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:08 <@_archels> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3733003/pdf/fpsyg-04-00500.pdf 07:08 < kanzure> unicode error 07:09 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/5923535000692f2883fb058ae620b447.pdf 07:09 < kanzure> what! 07:09 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:09 <@_archels> pasky: ^ 07:14 < kanzure> why doesn't mplayer change the title on my screen when the stream changes titles? :| 07:20 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGgDMjA-agg&t=60s 07:20 -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:20 < yoleaux> ANIMA MUNDI - Godfrey Reggio 07:24 < kanzure> (this is my "recalibration" video) 07:25 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-67-176-51-230.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:32 -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@95.5.123.181] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:32 -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@95.5.123.181] has quit [Changing host] 07:32 -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:34 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@2-103-15.connect.netcom.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:35 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:36 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:39 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:44 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:50 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@119.17.42.146] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:50 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@119.17.42.146] has quit [Changing host] 07:50 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:02 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:22 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:40 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:41 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:46 < pasky> _archels: that's nice; but it seems it's practical solution is far from state-of-art in normal NLP; but I'll read it in detail 08:46 < pasky> _archels: I'm not saying that where this *leads* to may be more powerful than current methods, but it seems like just a start 08:47 < pasky> I'm now interested in putting together what we already have; we can do that with classic NLP parsers, statistics, deep learning and reinforcement learning, but if we blacklist some of the technologies since they don't occur in human brain, there is nothing to synthetize 08:48 * pasky would be fine with disapproval but is kind of disappointed by what seem to him like terribly narrow-minded, purist views 08:48 < pasky> anyway, i'll go read that paper in detail 08:51 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-92-21-205-192.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:59 < FourFire> probably old news, but: http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevenkotler/2014/05/21/suspended-animation-goes-primetime-say-goodbye-to-death-as-we-know-it/ 09:00 < FourFire> I'm sorry, is this channel cryonics agnostic, or is there another consensus view? 09:02 < eudoxia> i'm about 80% sure suspended animation for a few hours won't change the mainstream view on the plausibility of cryonics 09:03 < kanzure> hah why is the brain seen as a purist view 09:03 < kanzure> if anything it's the opposite of the symbolic ai purist view 09:05 < kanzure> what's narrow minded about 'the chances of you failing to build a human emulation are less than the chances of you failing to build a non-human-derived "knowledge processing system"' 09:07 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@2-103-15.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:07 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@192.55.55.41] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:13 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:22 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@159.171.124.1] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:24 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:24 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@209.97.231.117] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:26 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:31 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@119.17.42.146] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:31 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@119.17.42.146] has quit [Changing host] 09:31 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:34 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:34 < juri_> I have the unique opportunity to hang out with SciFi author and programmer/nanotechnologist, Ramez Naam. Thought I'd ask this group of transhumanists if there are any questions you'd ask if you were me. 09:34 < juri_> ^-- friend of mine. 09:34 < FourFire> I've never heard of him 09:36 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:39 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:40 < kanzure> airport baggage system design failure analysis http://calleam.com/WTPF/wp-content/uploads/articles/DIABaggage.pdf 09:40 < kanzure> he spammed me with a "happy birthday" once, you should complain to him about that 09:42 < kanzure> .wik ramez naam 09:42 < yoleaux> "Ramez Naam is a professional technologist and science fiction writer. He was involved in the development of widely used software products such as Microsoft Internet Explorer and Microsoft Outlook. His last role at Microsoft was as a Partner Group Program Manager in Search Relevance for Live Search." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramez_Naam 09:42 < kanzure> "professional technologist"? 09:45 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:01 -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:11 -!- Mokstar [~Mokstar@c-24-21-241-171.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:11 -!- Mokstar [~Mokstar@c-24-21-241-171.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:11 -!- Mokstar [~Mokstar@unaffiliated/mokstar] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:17 -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@95.5.123.181] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:17 -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@95.5.123.181] has quit [Changing host] 10:17 -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:26 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@119.17.42.146] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:26 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@119.17.42.146] has quit [Changing host] 10:26 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:27 -!- Mokstar [~Mokstar@unaffiliated/mokstar] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:31 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:37 < kanzure> so that airport could probably have been better designed such that you needed less trolleys for moving luggage 10:37 < kanzure> for example, a large linear desing where the airport itself is laid out for the purposes of luggage transport rather than people distribution 10:38 < kanzure> *design 10:38 < kanzure> no sharp corners for luggage transport 10:39 < kanzure> limited number of moving parts; maybe use gravity for transporting cargo to a central location where the upward movement occurs 10:39 < kanzure> you could also use a water flow system, where you place luggage on floatables 10:41 < kanzure> and then you could do a floating bucket tagging system rather than having a person reach around for the id tag sticker on the luggage itself 10:46 -!- kumavis [~kumavis@8.26.155.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:46 < eudoxia> how about a marquee over the luggage conveyor that announces names as the luggage comes around 10:53 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:56 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:03 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:04 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:05 -!- Mokstar [~Mokstar@unaffiliated/mokstar] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:08 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-50-237-107.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:09 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@209.97.231.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:11 < nmz787_i> until your bag with computers falls into the water system and you sue the airport for using water instead of dry conveyors 11:12 < chris_99> heh 11:12 < chris_99> use oil instead of water then 11:13 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:21 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@119.17.42.146] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:21 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@119.17.42.146] has quit [Changing host] 11:21 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:22 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:26 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:29 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@119.17.42.146] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:29 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@119.17.42.146] has quit [Changing host] 11:29 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:30 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@209.97.231.117] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:35 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:35 -!- apex [~apex@c-107-4-148-59.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:36 -!- apex [~apex@c-107-4-148-59.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:44 -!- kumavis [~kumavis@8.26.155.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:49 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:54 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:16 <@_archels> pasky: I encourage you to use 'classical' machine learning methods to implement an expert system, but advise you to be conservative (and concrete) in your stated goals 12:19 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:22 -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:23 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@95.5.123.181] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:23 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@95.5.123.181] has quit [Changing host] 12:23 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:29 -!- echo[1] [~echo1]@stallman.cse.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:34 < kanzure> uspto budget is $2 billion/year 12:35 -!- rk[1] [~rak@stallman.cse.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:37 -!- rk[1] [~rak@stallman.cse.ohio-state.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:37 < kanzure> "Patent fee collections are estimated to be between $2,609 and $2,962 million for FY 2014. These projections are based on assumptions that patent filings will increase between 2 and 6 percent." 12:38 < kanzure> see http://www.uspto.gov/about/stratplan/budget/fy14pbr.pdf 12:43 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@119.17.42.146] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:43 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@119.17.42.146] has quit [Changing host] 12:43 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:48 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:20 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:22 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:27 -!- Lemminkainen [uid2346@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-prhrwlmbwncisprz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:27 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:32 < pasky> kanzure: okay, phrased like that of course it's not narrow-minded, but the general notion of achieving intelligence by something else than emulating neurons seems to have produced a surprisingly hostile response :) dunno, to me it is just like insisting that a flying machine must flap its wings 13:33 < pasky> then again, i was double-thinking whether to include brain emulation in the list of fallacies so i guess i had it coming when i went ahead 13:33 < kanzure> i would posit that it is not at all like a flying machine.... for starters. 13:34 < kanzure> and if you don't know how to fly, then copying wings is a good idea. 13:35 < pasky> for sure, as a default option, but then it turns out that building functional bird-like wings is really tricky 13:36 < kanzure> i over-emphasize neurons because of the lack of emphasis that neurons have always had 13:36 < kanzure> the vast majority of all "ai" projects have been overwhelmingly non-biologically-accurate 13:36 < pasky> _archels: of course, in my current project, i have way more specific goals and i usually never mention strong ai to people i explain brmson to :) this was just an attempt on a statement of where it fits in my personal philosophy 13:37 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:39 < kanzure> while it is true that the brain is not the only feasible implementation of whatever it is that the brain does that is interesting, it is the only implementation we have and know how to make, so the insistence on starting with something not known to work seems like complicating the problem by a million or billion fold 13:42 < kanzure> however, you'll be able to easily convince fenn i'm sure. he's totally into symbolic ai like that. cough. 13:42 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:43 < Lemminkainen> kanzure ain't going to get far on neurons alone 13:43 < Lemminkainen> include microglial neurotransmitter dynamics 13:43 < kanzure> well you're not going to get far on xml opencyc version 31904 13:44 * kanzure glares at stephen reed 13:44 < kanzure> i can see him through my walls 13:44 < Lemminkainen> are your ampakines off? 13:44 < kanzure> stephen reed is a reference to a person that people interested in ai know about 13:44 < kanzure> and he lives in austin, so saying "i can see him through my walls" is a reference to that 13:44 < kanzure> this comedy club is tough! 13:45 < cpopell> One step closer to gainful employment. 13:45 < Lemminkainen> I can't tell what's ironic and what's real anymore 13:45 < Lemminkainen> post-post-modern reality disillusionment disorder 13:46 < kanzure> i am real. you have me. 13:47 < gradstudentbot> Well, you can't guarantee that. 13:49 < Lemminkainen> lookit that serendipity 13:53 < pasky> kanzure: *if* we knew how to make it, I'd agree, but that's a pretty bold statement 13:53 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:53 < pasky> and I certainly wouldn't call my approach symbolic 13:55 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:55 -!- entelechy [~elysium@181.194.129.22] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:59 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:00 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:00 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:00 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-2-97-235-174.as13285.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:05 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:06 -!- kumavis [~kumavis@8.26.155.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:11 < FourFire> pasky, the question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than the question of whether a submarine can swim 14:17 < pasky> FourFire: i know that quote, and your point is? :) 14:18 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-2-97-235-174.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:18 < FourFire> well, submarines obviously don't swim 14:18 < FourFire> but they do *travel through water* 14:19 < FourFire> there's probably many different ways to process data, and solve problems, but we don't know them until we test them 14:19 <@_archels> pasky: what *is* your approach? 14:22 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:24 -!- pilenin [~asakharov@24.60.79.55] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:27 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:30 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:32 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:32 -!- kumavis [~kumavis@8.26.155.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:44 -!- sapiosexual [~sapiosexu@d205-250-248-42.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:44 -!- sapiosexual_ [~sapiosexu@d205-250-248-42.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:53 < pasky> FourFire: so that's what I'm doing :) 14:55 < FourFire> pasky, what, machine learning without NN ? 14:55 -!- sapiosexual [~sapiosexu@d205-250-248-42.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: No calling card for the unsung bard] 14:55 -!- sapiosexual_ [~sapiosexu@d205-250-248-42.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: No calling card for the unsung bard] 14:55 < FourFire> can you spell out your methodology, briefly? 14:55 -!- sapiosexual [~sapiosexu@d205-250-248-42.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:56 < gradstudentbot> Wasn't there a paper about that? 15:02 < pasky> FourFire: no, question answering; I suppose right now there isn't a better document than https://github.com/brmson/yodaqa/blob/master/doc/HIGHLEVEL.md 15:02 < pasky> it's still an early work in progress :) 15:03 < FourFire> cool, I'll read it later. fr now, I have to go 15:03 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@159.171.124.1] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Leaving"] 15:07 -!- entelechy [~elysium@181.194.129.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:16 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:20 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-55-67-144.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:21 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:24 -!- strangewarp_ [~strangewa@209.97.231.117] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:28 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@209.97.231.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:28 -!- kumavis [~kumavis@8.26.155.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:39 -!- kumavis [~kumavis@8.26.155.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:43 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:48 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:01 -!- Adifex|zzz is now known as Adifex 16:10 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:11 -!- strangewarp_ [~strangewa@209.97.231.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:15 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:16 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-55-67-144.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:26 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-58-169-106-3.lns4.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:37 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:42 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:46 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-58-169-106-3.lns4.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:47 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-58-169-106-3.lns4.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:47 -!- kumavis [~kumavis@208.66.29.71] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:53 -!- strangewarp_ [~strangewa@c-67-176-51-230.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:56 -!- kumavis [~kumavis@208.66.29.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:04 -!- kumavis [~kumavis@208.66.29.71] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:04 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@119.17.42.146] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:04 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@119.17.42.146] has quit [Changing host] 17:04 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:09 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:16 -!- Lemminkainen [uid2346@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-prhrwlmbwncisprz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:30 -!- kumavis [~kumavis@208.66.29.71] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:30 -!- kumavis [~kumavis@208.66.29.71] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:31 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:36 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:48 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@119.17.42.146] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:59 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@119.17.42.146] has quit [Changing host] 17:59 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:59 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@208.66.29.71] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:02 -!- kumavis [~kumavis@208.66.29.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:04 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:20 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:23 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:26 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:40 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:42 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:47 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:51 -!- drewbot_ [~cinch@ec2-54-235-239-238.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:52 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@208.66.29.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:58 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: drewbot 19:00 -!- Adifex is now known as night 19:04 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@192.55.55.41] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:05 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@119.17.42.146] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:05 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@119.17.42.146] has quit [Changing host] 19:05 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:14 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:32 -!- realzies [~pinky@unaffiliated/realazthat] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:32 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:34 -!- realz [~pinky@unaffiliated/realazthat] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:35 -!- kumavis [~kumavis@208.66.29.71] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:35 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:37 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:40 -!- kumavis [~kumavis@208.66.29.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:54 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:59 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@119.17.42.146] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:59 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@119.17.42.146] has quit [Changing host] 19:59 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:04 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:10 -!- ianmathwiz7 [~chatzilla@68-115-57-210.static.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:11 -!- ianmathwiz7 [~chatzilla@68-115-57-210.static.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:13 -!- strangewarp_ is now known as strangewarp 20:14 < kanzure> beep 20:22 < kanzure> superbeep? 20:22 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:24 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 20:27 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:27 < juri_> eep? 20:31 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:36 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:37 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-58-169-106-3.lns4.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:43 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:44 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:54 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:54 < kanzure> how is this a test? http://git.dev.opencascade.org/gitweb/?p=occt.git;a=blob;f=tests/boolean/bfuse_complex/A5;h=7016f331c4c6b103893ec6fcae3d048886d045c9;hb=HEAD 20:54 < kanzure> what is it testing against 20:54 < kanzure> or how does it know if the result is correct 20:59 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:59 < kanzure> "simplified python wrapper for opencascade" https://github.com/tenko/occmodel 21:03 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:09 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:09 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:28 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:30 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:30 < Qfwfq> 4 21:45 -!- night is now known as jungle 21:45 -!- jungle is now known as night 21:50 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:56 -!- drewbot_ [~cinch@ec2-54-235-239-238.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-23-20-128-201.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:59 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:00 -!- Rayston [~rayston@ip68-106-242-42.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:22 -!- Mokstar [~Mokstar@unaffiliated/mokstar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:26 -!- rayston [~rayston@ip68-106-242-42.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:32 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-78-149-131-231.as13285.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:49 <@fenn> lol i also have "post-post-modern reality disillusionment disorder" 22:52 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=07180af9 Bryan Bishop: links to pythonocc and occmodel >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/cad/opencascade/ 23:09 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:10 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-58-169-106-3.lns4.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:15 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-58-169-106-3.lns4.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-58-169-106-3.lns4.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:31 -!- pilenin [~asakharov@24.60.79.55] has quit [Quit: quit] 23:33 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-58-169-106-3.lns4.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:40 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-78-149-131-231.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:52 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:53 -!- kyknos [~kyknos@89.233.130.143] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Fri May 23 00:00:13 2014