--- Log opened Sun Jun 08 00:00:28 2014 00:08 < kanzure> this objective has one too many lenses (lots) https://www.google.com/patents/US5969803 00:31 -!- sheena [~home@S01065cd9986bbe89.vs.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:35 < nmz787> kanzure: lithography is done a lot without refractive lenses a lot these days, they get around oil immersion by using diffraction 00:36 < nmz787> err, s/diffraction/interference/ 00:36 < nmz787> http://spie.org/x104569.xml 00:37 < nmz787> probably it would be better to have either A) better fab techniques for highly complex 3D shapes 00:37 < nmz787> B) better fab tech that allows gradients of refractive index in materials 00:37 < nmz787> but those are both really hard 00:37 < nmz787> to accomplish 00:37 < kanzure> i don't care about "these days", how about 1962 00:38 < kanzure> fuck "these days" 00:38 < nmz787> like, are you going to place every molecule of a lens with a 2-photon development machine? 00:38 < nmz787> and you're also going to mass produce them? 00:38 < kanzure> hm? 00:38 < kanzure> .title 00:39 < yoleaux> Optical beam lithography beyond the diffraction limit 00:39 < nmz787> paperbot: http://scitation.aip.org/content/avs/journal/jvstb/27/6/10.1116/1.3237093 00:39 < kanzure> .title 00:39 < yoleaux> Coherent diffraction lithography: Periodic patterns via mask-based interference lithography 00:40 < kanzure> s/yoleaux/titlemonster 00:40 < kanzure> it looks like people in the 60s were just buying random nikon gear 00:40 < kanzure> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=Ultra+Micro-NIKKOR&_sop=15&_osacat=0&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XUltra+Micro-NIKKOR+30mm&_nkw=Ultra+Micro-NIKKOR+30mm&_sacat=0&_from=R40 00:41 < kanzure> i bet they were doing normal photography reduction things, like 35 mm film stuff 00:41 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Coherent%20diffraction%20lithography%3A%20Periodic%20patterns%20via%20mask-based%20interference%20lithography.txt 00:41 < nmz787> http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Coherent_diffraction_lithography--Periodic_patterns_via_mask-based_interference_lithography.pdf 00:42 < nmz787> hmm 00:42 < nmz787> its got an IP address in it 00:42 < nmz787> :/ 00:42 < kanzure> joepie91__: poke^ 00:42 < nmz787> this is probably why i don't have my degree in hand yet 00:43 < kanzure> ? 00:43 < nmz787> the whole computed interference thing is hot these days (i almost want to say they call it holography) 00:43 < kanzure> because you don't have a darkroom? 00:43 < kanzure> oh. 00:43 < kanzure> every creep needs a good darkroom 00:43 < joepie91__> (please hold) 00:44 < gradstudentbot> Huh, this western worked on the first try. 00:44 < nmz787> kanzure: nah cause i upload papers all the time 00:44 < kanzure> i.. uh. i doubt that. 00:44 < nmz787> :) 00:45 < nmz787> .wik talbot effect 00:45 < yoleaux> "The Talbot effect is a near-field diffraction effect first observed in 1836 by Henry Fox Talbot." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talbot_effect 00:45 < kanzure> ugh 00:45 < nmz787> bam, 1836 00:45 < nmz787> kanzure: near-field optics are also probably of interest to you, as you've been complaining about far-field optics 00:45 < joepie91__> kanzure: okay to reference IP-containing PDF in ticket? 00:46 < kanzure> joepie91__: yep 00:46 < nmz787> wait, ticket for what? 00:46 < kanzure> pdfparanoia 00:46 < nmz787> i didn't use that tho 00:46 < nmz787> i guess for ref to know what pubs put them in what journals it is good 00:46 < nmz787> but i used my uploader bookmarklet thing 00:47 < gradstudentbot> It's contaminated. 00:48 < joepie91__> kanzure: #42 00:48 < joepie91__> https://github.com/kanzure/pdfparanoia/issues/42 00:48 < joepie91__> seems to be the only watermark 00:48 < gradstudentbot> You know they keep the mice in better conditions than us. 00:49 < kanzure> i know, i know, radstudent 00:49 < joepie91__> ratstudent? 00:49 < joepie91__> :P 00:49 < gradstudentbot> I am busy researching. 00:50 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53 < kanzure> nmz787: i think ray tracing is a good idea before building light microscopes 00:54 < kanzure> also i think you should be able to get realistic renderings of microscopic images 00:54 < kanzure> based on your lens and optic train etc 00:56 < kanzure> and then you could rapidly test optics things before buying terrible objectives 00:58 < nmz787> hmm, assuming those objectives have 3d cad files available for your eval 00:58 < kanzure> also could be used for testing projection photolithography 00:58 < kanzure> well, brlcad can generate them with the lens routine 00:58 < kanzure> based on numerical aperature, refractive index, some other parameters i've never heard of 00:58 < nmz787> most objectives are aspeheric 00:58 < nmz787> so you need several coefficients 00:59 < kanzure> does edmund give thosae numbers? 00:59 < kanzure> *those 00:59 < nmz787> i think so 00:59 < nmz787> or that other company 00:59 < nmz787> thor labs 00:59 -!- FireAura [~leopardst@173-16-93-146.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:59 < kanzure> brlcad has its own ray tracer but i have no idea if it will generate realistic images through condensors or convex lenses 01:00 < kanzure> *condensers 01:01 < gradstudentbot> That's the control group, right? 01:04 < nmz787> http://www.pdx.edu/nano-development-lab/neutral-atom-microscopy 01:04 < nmz787> "We presently appear to hold the resolution record for this form of microscopy as well, now about 1/3 um, approaching the limit of far-field visible light microscopy. Calculations show that the resolution can continue to improve by large steps." 01:05 < nmz787> huh, loks like they just butted a scope up to a scintillator or something 01:05 < nmz787> "The Centre for Organic Electronics at the University of Newcastle, Australia has picked up the pinhole NAM concept and has published on the source section of their prototype." 01:07 < nmz787> this is cool too, I met this prof http://www.pdx.edu/nano-development-lab/raman-tenom-ters 01:07 < nmz787> http://www.pdx.edu/nano-development-lab/tip-enhancedfarfield-multi-photon-fluorescence 01:08 < kanzure> "center for organic animaltronics" 01:14 -!- kuudes [~vuokra@dsl-olubrasgw2-58c0c7-183.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:17 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:34 < justanotheruser> http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/students-build-the-first-eukaryotic-chromosome-from-scratch/ 01:35 < ebowden> Oh, I remember that. 01:38 < kanzure> blah blah blah get a class of students to do your work for you.. big deal. 01:38 < kanzure> they paid to take that class haha 01:39 < kanzure> (what a fucked up labor model) 01:39 < nmz787> :/ 01:40 < nmz787> summer camp 01:40 < kanzure> not even the soviets had that weird of a system 01:40 < nmz787> well 01:40 < nmz787> i went to this air and space museum like two weeks ago 01:40 < nmz787> they had some rockets 01:40 < kanzure> they just hired millions of people and told them they shall now do science. they didn't have scientists paying them for the "privilege".. 01:41 < nmz787> and space suits and a replica of the moon lander 01:41 < nmz787> sr71 blackbid 01:41 < nmz787> anyway 01:41 < nmz787> one cosmonaut grew up on some commune farm 01:41 < nmz787> which idk were they chill or like prison 01:41 < kanzure> i'm sure experiences varied between the different ussr/russian science cities 01:43 < kanzure> oh, i bet they were doing 35 mm contact lithography using normal photography stuff 01:43 < kanzure> "The first integrated circuits had features of 200 micrometres which were printed using contact lithography. This technique was popular in the 1960s until it was substituted by proximity printing, where a gap is introduced between the photomask and the substrate. Proximity printing had poorer resolution than contact printing (due to the gap allowing more diffraction to occur) but generated far less defects. The resolution was sufficient for ... 01:43 < kanzure> ... down to 2 micrometre production. In 1978, the step-and-repeat projection system appeared. [1]" 01:43 < kanzure> hmm 200 microns.. what's the feature size on normal 35 mm film 01:48 < kanzure> "Summicron 35mm f/2 lens is the king of resolution, rated at 7500 lines/mm" 01:48 < kanzure> "Even ISO 25 film (the finest resolution ever made in 35mm film) has an average Dye Cloud size of 4.9 microns." 01:49 < kanzure> "Fuji 100 ISO slide film the best resolution was about 50 LPM which corresponds to a line thickness of 0.010 mm, 10.0 microns" 01:50 < kanzure> "According to the DP Review review of the TZ3 and to its specification it has horizontal and vertical resolutions of 1575 and 1525 LPH, lines per picture height with a 5.68 x 4.26 mm sensor. Dividing these sizes by the corresponding resolutions gives minimum line thicknesses of 0.00270 mm, 2.70 microns and 0.00279 mm, 2.79 microns." 01:51 -!- petrushka [~asakharov@24.60.79.55] has quit [Quit: quit] 01:51 < kanzure> "One of the most interesting works describing a new method for fabrication of cheap contact photomasks using photographic films was published by Deng et al. [12]. Computer aided designed (CAD) files were first printed bigger than real size onto paper using an office printer with resolution of 600 dots/in, and then reduced by a 35mm camera to the required dimensions onto 35 mm films. After development, these photographic films were used as ... 01:51 < kanzure> ... photomasks in contact photolithography. Even if the resolution claimed by authors is of 15 μm and therefore distant from the few microns resolution needed to fabricate complex microfluidic devices, the procedure is well suited for many medium resolution applications, such those typical required in microfluidics." 01:52 < kanzure> last quote is from http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/optics/photolithography/Photomasks%20fabrication%20based%20on%20optical%20reduction%20for%20microfluidic%20applications.pdf 02:00 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:07 < dpk> paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1467-968X.00044/pdf 02:07 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/599077ec3d69774b82754bcd428fd028.txt 02:07 < dpk> sigh 02:09 < kanzure> sadly paperbot is not all knowing 02:09 < kanzure> that is planned for v2 02:10 * dpk nods 02:15 < nmz787> yep, they've had e-beam write for a long time 02:15 < nmz787> i think since like the 30s or 40s 02:16 < nmz787> dpk: http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/ROOT_AND_BRANCH_REVISING_THE_ETYMOLOGICAL_COMPONENT_OF_THE_OXFORD_ENGLISH_DICTIONARY.pdf 02:17 < dpk> ooooh, thanks! 02:24 < nmz787> kanzure: some lens paths in this http://www.chiphistory.org/documents/microlithogrphy&mask_making.pdf 02:29 < nmz787> hmm i'm having trouble finding the history of e-beam photomask pattern generation 02:30 < nmz787> this is getting close but is talking about maskless exposure with e-beams, starting in 60's/70's http://proceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org/proceeding.aspx?articleid=724844 02:32 < gradstudentbot> Wow, that would be a great sample to add to my collection. 02:34 < nmz787> http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/The_Development_of_Device_Lithography.pdf 02:39 < nmz787> http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Marching%20of%20the%20microlithography%20horses:%20electron,%20ion,%20and%20photon--past,%20present,%20and%20future.pdf 02:40 < nmz787> kanzure: ahh, also reduction lithography 02:55 -!- archels is now known as _archels 02:56 -!- 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seconds] 06:43 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:02 -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:03 -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:14 -!- wwv [~wwv@85-171-170-217.rev.numericable.fr] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:14 -!- wwv [~wwv@85-171-170-217.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Changing host] 07:14 -!- wwv [~wwv@unaffiliated/wwv] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:15 -!- wwv [~wwv@unaffiliated/wwv] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 07:21 < yoleaux> dpk: fix wp:en:Fritz_Zernicke pronunciation key 07:27 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:37 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:41 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:05 < kanzure> nmz787: i don't think starting with electron beam lithography is necessary 08:13 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.opticsinfobase.org/ao/abstract.cfm?uri=ao-53-9-1802 08:14 < kanzure> .title 08:14 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1364%2FAO.53.001802 08:14 < yoleaux> Rapid fabrication of on-demand high-resolution optical masks with a CD–DVD pickup unit 08:14 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 08:25 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@unaffiliated/anastasiawyatt] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:30 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@185.5.8.81] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:30 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@185.5.8.81] has quit [Changing host] 08:30 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:31 < kanzure> paperbot: http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2003/an/b304354a 08:32 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/PDMS-based%20microfluidic%20device%20with%20multi-height%20structures%20fabricated%20by%20single-step%20photolithography%20using%20printed%20circuit%20board%20as%20masters.pdf 08:41 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@unaffiliated/anastasiawyatt] has quit [Changing host] 08:41 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:01 < kanzure> paperbot: http://arxiv.org/abs/1312.0617 09:02 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Fully%20Automatic%20Liquid%20Metal%20Printer%20towards%20Personal%20Electronics%20Manufacture.pdf 09:10 < kanzure> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10404-010-0630-3 09:10 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/b8a3c423d4692dd80b4adfe6d7a43b16.txt 09:14 < kanzure> paperbot: http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2012/lc/c2lc20799k 09:14 < kanzure> .title 09:14 < yoleaux> Design of pressure-driven microfluidic networks using electric circuit analogy 09:15 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Design%20of%20pressure-driven%20microfluidic%20networks%20using%20electric%20circuit%20analogy.pdf 09:15 < kanzure> paperbot is the awesomest 09:18 < kanzure> that is a good paper 09:27 < kanzure> request: A. M. Christenson*, and B. H. Augustine, "Rapid Prototyping of Photolithographic Masks Using 35 mm Slide Film", Proc. NCUR, (2000) 09:28 < kanzure> or "Rapid Prototyping of Masks From Various 35mm Film Types for Use in Photolithography" 09:48 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:50 -!- mosasaur [~mosasaur@unaffiliated/mosasaur] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:53 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:19 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:23 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: realzies 10:24 -!- Netsplit over, joins: realzies 10:37 -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:52 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:58 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:05 -!- Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::101] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:05 -!- Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::101] has quit [Changing host] 11:05 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:05 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:11 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:13 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:32 < archels> paperbot: http://www.cell.com/trends/cognitive-sciences/pdf/S1364-6613(14)00055-2.pdf 11:32 < paperbot> TypeError: unicode() argument 2 must be string, not None (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/models.py", line 825, in text) 11:43 < kanzure> huh 11:44 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:52 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:58 -!- Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::101] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:58 -!- Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::101] has quit [Changing host] 11:58 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:58 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:01 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:01 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:12 -!- FireAura [~leopardst@173-16-93-146.client.mchsi.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:17 -!- FireAura [~leopardst@173-16-93-146.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:33 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeopyhjX9vY 12:33 < yoleaux> 1980 Kodak Colorburst 250 Instant Camera commercial 12:43 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mIUJ3Df1Po 12:43 < yoleaux> Instant film to transparent negative 12:44 < kanzure> .title http://content.photojojo.com/diy/instant-film-transparencies/ 12:44 < yoleaux> How To Make Photo Transparencies with Impossible Project Instant Film! 12:44 < gradstudentbot> These findings indicate that extensive genetic engineering of human hematopoiesis can be achieved with lentiviral vectors. 12:46 < kanzure> hrmm https://www.the-impossible-project.com/instantlab/ 12:52 < kanzure> damn... "According to the data sheet for Polacolor 100 peel apart films: Resolution (1000:1): 10-12 line pairs/mm" 13:02 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@154.122.123.101] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:02 < poppingtonic> paperbot: http://http://dx.doi.org/10.1145/224056.224075 13:02 < paperbot> InvalidURL: (LocationParseError(...), 'Failed to parse: Failed to parse: http:') (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/models.py", line 558, in send) 13:02 < poppingtonic> paperbot: http://dx.doi.org/10.1145/224056.224075 13:02 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/On%20micro-kernel%20construction.pdf 13:03 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DdrjDmlaWw 13:03 < yoleaux> How to make a negative from an Instant film 13:04 < kanzure> i wonder if any of the instant films are high-resolution 13:20 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@154.122.123.101] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20 -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:20 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:21 -!- [nsh] is now known as nsh 13:21 -!- nsh is now known as [nsh] 13:21 -!- nsh_ [~nsh@host217-43-193-138.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:21 -!- nsh_ [~nsh@host217-43-193-138.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:22 < kanzure> nmz787: you should stalk these guys (they are in oregon) http://outputcity.com/boutus.htm 13:25 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:32 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@184-121-15.connect.netcom.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:33 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:34 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@184-121-15.connect.netcom.no] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 13:48 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-76-167-105-53.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:58 -!- Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::101] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:58 -!- Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::101] has quit [Changing host] 13:58 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:58 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:26 < kanzure> "For example, Agfa 10E56 holographic film has a resolution of over 4,000 lines/mm—equivalent to a pixel size of 0.125 micrometres—and an active dynamic range of over five orders of magnitude in brightness, compared to typical scientific CCDs that might have pixels of about 10 micrometres and a dynamic range of 3-4 orders of magnitude." 14:26 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:26 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:42 < kanzure> fenn, do people use photographic film for homebrew pcb stuff? 14:42 < kanzure> and if so, what resolution limits 14:47 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:47 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:48 < kanzure> http://holowiki.nss.rpi.edu/wiki/DIY_Silver_Halide_Film 14:50 < seba-> kanzure, i use toner transfer 14:51 < kanzure> apparently everyone else does too :( 14:57 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:20 < kanzure> "Additionally, the US Victory Mail, and the British "Airgraph" system it was based on, were used for delivering mail between those at home and troops serving overseas during World War II. The systems worked by photographing large amounts of censored mail reduced to thumb-nail size onto reels of microfilm, which weighed much less than the originals would have. The film reels were shipped by priority air freight to and from the home fronts, ... 15:20 < kanzure> ... sent to their prescribed destinations for enlarging at receiving stations near the recipients, and printed out on lightweight photo paper. These facsimiles of the letter-sheets were reproduced about one-quarter the original size and the miniature mails were then delivered to the addressee. Use of these microfilm systems saved significant volumes of cargo capacity needed for vital war supplies. An additional benefit was that the small, ... 15:20 < kanzure> ... light weight reels of microfilm were almost always transported by air, and as such were much quicker than any surface mail services." 15:20 < kanzure> from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microform 15:21 < kanzure> "It has low intrinsic value and does not attract thieves. Few heavily-used microform collections suffer any losses due to theft." 15:22 < kanzure> yes... "few" 15:23 < gradstudentbot> I am sponsored by Thermo Fisher. 15:33 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:34 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:42 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:44 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:56 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:57 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:03 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:05 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:13 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:14 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:19 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:20 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:22 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:26 < kanzure> cool, there used to be microfilm cameras 16:29 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29 < seba-> you can now take 16:29 < seba-> probably shitloads of letters 16:29 < seba-> and put it on a microsd 16:29 < seba-> and mail it 16:29 < seba-> aa 16:29 < kanzure> http://blog.eogn.com/2014/05/29/the-death-of-microfilm/ 16:30 < kanzure> microsd doesn't allow for photolithography 16:30 < kanzure> seems to be completely useless for lithography, even 16:31 < kanzure> "Even new, unexposed microfilm is disappearing. Only a couple of small companies still manufacture microfilm, and they have already notified FamilySearch and their few other remaining customers that they will be shutting down their manufacturing facilities soon." 16:38 < kanzure> 140 lines per mm might be enough to do micron-resolution lithography things http://www.fujifilm.com/products/professional_films/pdf/provia_100f_datasheet.pdf ($77 for 20 sheets on amazon) 16:50 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:52 -!- Burninate is now known as landofpies 16:57 -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:04 < heath> ""Three-Dimensional Paper Microfluidic Devices Based on the Principles of Origami" http://rcrooks.cm.utexas.edu/research/resources/Publications/rmc225.pdf 17:07 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:08 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:09 < kanzure> heath: take a gander at http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/optics/photolithography/ 17:11 < seba-> kanzure, couldn't you just use optics from a microscope or something similar, take a bigger photo 17:11 < seba-> shine light 17:11 < seba-> and then just concentrate it 17:11 < kanzure> here's one that does 200 lines per mm http://www.fujifilmusa.com/shared/bin/NeopanAcros100.pdf (about $70 for 20 sheets) (larger than the previous film) 17:11 < seba-> i think it would work 17:11 < seba-> hm 17:11 < kanzure> seba-: yes, you could use a projector http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/optics/photolithography/DIY%20fabrication%20of%20microstructures%20by%20projection%20photolithography.pdf 17:12 < seba-> but you would have to use colimated light 17:12 < seba-> so that you don't get penumbria or how it's spelled 17:12 < kanzure> the advantage of using a camera is that you don't need a microscope and you don't need a micromirror array 17:12 < seba-> maybe an UV laser 17:12 < seba-> what 17:12 < seba-> just print 17:12 < seba-> on a laser printer 17:12 < seba-> transparent foil 17:12 < kanzure> laser printer does not resolve finely enough 17:12 < seba-> yeah 17:12 < seba-> but print big 17:13 < seba-> then use UV leds or some shit 17:13 < kanzure> so you still need the condenser optics, or an entire microscope 17:13 < seba-> and project that image 17:13 < seba-> onto a tiny point 17:14 < kanzure> yes 17:14 < seba-> i don't know if optics of a microscope could work 17:14 < seba-> but if it does 17:14 < seba-> that's super cheap 17:14 < seba-> you just buy russian optics 17:14 < kanzure> take a look at the link 17:14 < seba-> those are good and dirty cheap 17:14 < kanzure> which russian optics in particular? 17:15 < kanzure> where 17:15 < seba-> hm search LOMO in cyrillic it's ЛОМО 17:15 < seba-> maybe on ebay.co.uk or ebay.de 17:15 < kanzure> Ленинградское Oптико-Mеханическое Oбъединение ? 17:16 < seba-> yes 17:16 < seba-> used optics 17:16 < seba-> are usually cheap 17:16 < seba-> i've bought a whole microscope 17:16 < kanzure> Вы говорите это кошка язык? 17:16 < seba-> heh i'm from slovenia, i don't really understand very well russian 17:16 < seba-> but some it's understandable to me 17:17 < gradstudentbot> My study reveals that people are awesome at memorizing insecure passwords. 17:17 < seba-> and i've learned to read cyrillic alright now because of ukraine ahahah i had to follow news lol 17:18 < seba-> oh cool link 17:19 < seba-> http://www.ebay.de/itm/030-LOMO-Achr-Objektiv-20X-0-40-Objective-Objectief-/221234221571?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item3382965203 17:19 < seba-> ok this one is not dirty cheap but ok 17:19 < kanzure> i think 100x is required 17:20 < kanzure> hah i like it, none of the plastic crap around the cylinder 17:20 < seba-> yeah you can get that also for a similar price 17:20 < seba-> yup 17:20 < seba-> russian crap is nice 17:20 < seba-> cheap and good 17:20 < seba-> i hope that they don't do any embargo 17:21 < seba-> fucking US/EU/RU coldwar3 17:22 < seba-> for 100x i've bought a british one 17:22 < seba-> also ok 17:23 < seba-> kanzure, you can get dirty microscopes usually VERY cheaply 17:23 < seba-> you just open them and clean them lol 17:25 < seba-> http://www.ebay.de/itm/MIKROSKOP-OBJEKTIV-90-x-1-25-LOMO-ZEISS-NEUWERTIG-/271501225855?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item3f36bbef7f 17:25 < seba-> 90x for 49 eur 17:28 < kanzure> huh, azonenberg's paper doesn't actually use a micromirror device 17:28 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/optics/photolithography/A%20maskless%20photolithographic%20prototyping%20system%20using%20a%20low-cost%20consumer%20projector%20and%20a%20microscope.pdf 17:29 < seba-> but 17:30 < seba-> http://olx.bg/ruski-mikroskop-i48078635 17:30 < seba-> i've received this for free as a gift with 3 lomo lenses 17:30 < seba-> but i think it was bought for 20 eur lol used of course 17:30 < kanzure> that says two eyepieces.. where's the second one 17:31 < seba-> you change them 17:31 < seba-> unscrew the bottom 17:31 < kanzure> ok 17:31 < seba-> etc. 17:31 < seba-> but i've bought a touret 17:31 < seba-> for like 15 eur from ebay 17:31 < seba-> lol 17:31 -!- landofpies is now known as Burninate 17:31 < seba-> it's not a very good microscope, but the optics are 17:34 < seba-> kanzure, ah no, wait you're in the US, maybe then find something american? maybe it will be cheaper, i don't knwo about the customs and all that 17:42 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:46 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:47 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:50 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:51 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:51 -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:54 < kanzure> seba-: well, maybe aldrich can be replaced some day heh 17:58 < seba-> kanzure, what do you mean? 18:00 < kanzure> specialty chemicals and reagents are too expensive if you are doing more than one project etc 18:00 < kanzure> alternative is microfluidic production of "fine chemicals" 18:01 < gradstudentbot> It's contaminated. 18:01 < seba-> kanzure, yes, alfa and applichem are cheaper 18:01 < seba-> btw what sorts of chemicals are you interested in? 18:01 < kanzure> and not all of the vendors will ship to non-lab addresses etc 18:01 < kanzure> well, dna, and the reagents required for dna synthesis 18:01 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:02 < kanzure> but then there's a bunch of chemistry things like ZnO stuff that would be useful to work with.. 18:02 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:02 < seba-> i see 18:03 < seba-> well we could make an exchange of such stuff 18:03 < seba-> sending 1 g via mail is not a problem 18:04 < kanzure> that's not repeatable.. once you leave school, everyone you were mailing to is fucked 18:04 < seba-> what do you mean? 18:04 < kanzure> you mean, you will buy chemicals because you're at a university, and then ship them to other people? 18:05 < kanzure> i'm talking about tiny machines to produce chemicals without shipping hehe 18:07 < kanzure> so far the most complicated chemistry i've seen in microfluidics is dna synthesis 18:08 < kanzure> but i'm sure there have been non-biology related chemical syntheses done 18:08 < seba-> you can get lots of chemicals off ebay and i can also buy most of them anyway hm but anyway usually you don't want to buy stuff you need like <5 g 18:10 < kanzure> here's an example (not dna synthesis) (emulsion production) https://www.ibp.ucla.edu/research/rowat/Publications_files/shah.MatToday.2008.pdf 18:10 < kanzure> heh neat, triple emulsions 18:12 < kanzure> here's one that does micro distillation and multi-step synthesis stuff http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/anie.200904634/abstract?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false 18:17 < kanzure> "recent advances in microflow photochemistry" http://www.mdpi.com/1420-3049/16/9/7522/pdf 18:17 < seba-> heh 18:17 < seba-> well you can just do organic reactions in ependorf tubes 18:18 < seba-> easier 18:18 < seba-> lol 18:21 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:22 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:49 -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:51 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53 -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:53 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:05 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:14 -!- kuudes [~vuokra@dsl-olubrasgw2-58c0c7-183.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: kuudes] 19:26 < heath> using backbone again is going to take some getting used to: https://github.com/heath/simple-census-web 19:27 < kanzure> app/lib/ can be replaced by bower things 19:28 < kanzure> so that you don't have to commit third-party dependencies to your git repo 19:30 < kanzure> i also recommend considering browserify for your build task, instead of just coffee, so that you can use normal require() instead of requirejs-style require() https://github.com/heath/simple-census-web/blob/master/app/scripts/main.coffee 19:31 < kanzure> and finally, because i'm a pedantic jerk, i see you have no testing-related task ;) 19:31 < heath> :) 19:32 < kanzure> i think most gulp people are using karma + jasmine + phantomjs for testing, or karmasomething 19:32 < kanzure> karameltester? 19:33 < heath> i want to replace lib/ with something else for sure, i guess i should try the bower-installer package, https://www.npmjs.org/package/bower-installer 19:34 < heath> iirc, you have been using it for awhile or something like it 19:34 < kanzure> i don't think bower-installer is necessary but i may have been using bower wrong 19:35 < kanzure> basically with bower (1) after npm install there is a bower install step, (2) there is a bower*.json file that gets committed, (3) bower_components/ goes into .gitignore, (4) build task checks if dependencies need to be bundled up or not and then bundles them with browserify (but doesn't always do this because otherwise it takes forever to scan and parse a few meg of js/css crap) (for this reason i keep it as a separate browserify-related ... 19:36 < kanzure> ... task) (others choose not to bundle browserify components, and just keep