--- Log opened Wed Jun 11 00:00:14 2014
--- Day changed Wed Jun 11 2014
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00:00 < nmz787> umm
00:00 < fenn> sayonara nmz787_i
00:00 < nmz787> yeah f that guy
00:01 < fenn> order of magnitude calculation is a well respected tradition in physics and engineering
00:01 < kanzure> estimation is much harder to do when your entire product is based on a giant black box (some commodity microscope with poor spec sheets)
00:01 < nmz787> no i'm not against estimation, but i don't want to spend 5 years on a brlcad estimation
00:01 < gradstudentbot> Can I get my own desk?
00:02 < kanzure> well, none of these other people did estimates either, and they ended up with microscopes that are not even micro-related
00:02 < nmz787> but they also have papers we're referring to with images of 10 micron lines or whatever
00:02 < kanzure> hm?
00:02 < nmz787> the DMD microfluidics, laser-traced microfluidics
00:03 < kanzure> we haven't referred to any of those for any of this
00:03 < kanzure> "just get some gears"
00:03 < nmz787> that blu-ray head on custom CNC paper
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00:03 < nmz787> we did like a day or two ago
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00:03 < nmz787> pretty much same idea/conversation
00:03 < kanzure> show me their BOM
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00:05 < nmz787> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/High%20resolution,%20low%20cost%20laser%20lithography%20using%20a%20Blu-ray%20optical%20head%20assembly.pdf
00:05 < nmz787> idk is it in there or not?
00:06 < nmz787> "The cost of the system, excluding the motion stages, is less than
00:06 < nmz787> $100."
00:06 < nmz787> The cost of the system, excluding the motion stages, is less than
00:06 < nmz787> $100
00:06 < nmz787> The cost of the system, excluding the motion stages, is less than
00:06 < nmz787> apparently copy doesnt work on that
00:07 < fenn> i thought you were just repeating for emphasis
00:07 < nmz787> nobody uses BOM sections anymore
00:08 < fenn> then "everybody" is a useless fucktard
00:08 < nmz787> i actually lost points for having a for-loop like structure for some chem paper i wrote a few months ago for a class
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00:08 < kanzure> well stop going to class
00:08 < fenn> "here's some thing, lol have fun reverse engineering our blurry photographs"
00:08 < nmz787> where i basically said, repeat steps 1-10 using the subsequent reaction mixes in table ABC
00:08 < nmz787> or something like that
00:09 < nmz787> he was like 'that isn't clear'
00:10 < fenn> there's a difference between pedantry and replicability
00:10 < nmz787> The cost of the system, excluding the motion stages, is less than
00:10 < nmz787> fuck
00:10 < nmz787> i'd copied and pasted this to chrome
00:10 < fenn> why even publish a paper like this if you don't include a BOM though
00:10 < nmz787> NLS4-2.5-16-1
00:10 < nmz787> no price listed
00:10 < nmz787> on their page
00:11 < nmz787> well its buried
00:11 < kanzure> so they have a diffraction grating, cube beam splitter, collimator lens, reflecting mirror, turning mirror, mounted photodiode, an LCD (for correcting aberration), an objective lens, tilt-actuated lens... there's no way this cost only $100, fuck these fuckholes.
00:11 < nmz787> in the "Direct laser write experimental setup" section
00:11 < nmz787> nah dude
00:12 < nmz787> that's in the bluray optical sled
00:12 < nmz787> that's the beauty
00:12 < nmz787> billions of engineering across the globe already
00:12 < nmz787> in every fry's or bestbuy or random electronics bodega
00:12 < kanzure> this isn't just a bluray
00:12 < nmz787> yeah, fig 1
00:12 < nmz787> top view of sf-aw210 optical head schematic
00:13 < nmz787> that's all in a unit the size of a matchbox or smaller
00:13 < kanzure> okay great.. where's the parts for the camera viewer.
00:13 < nmz787> they don't mention a cmarea
00:13 < nmz787> camera
00:13 < fenn> i've never taken apart a blu-ray drive; is all that stuff really in there?
00:13 < nmz787> well you can't really see it
00:14 < fenn> the aluminum frame with the various magical crystals and motors
00:14 < nmz787> its all in a glued up/sealed matchbox size thing
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00:14 < nmz787> fig 2 shows it
00:14 < fenn> or are those diodes
00:14 < nmz787> fig 2 (a)
00:14 < fenn> yeah i'm looking at it
00:15 < nmz787> even a dvd/cd drive looks similar
00:15 < nmz787> two lasers, idk about LCD... but like 4 or more photodiodes
00:15 < nmz787> buncha optics
00:15 < nmz787> all standarized for /some/ standard spot size and shape
00:16 < fenn> what does it actually do?
00:16 < nmz787> now whether that is the best beam profile for straight sidewalls, idk, but it is a start
00:16 < fenn> in the blu-ray drive i mean
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00:16 < nmz787> there is also LIGA which I think is DIYable
00:16 < nmz787> for making super steep sidewalls with basically an OK starting master
00:16 < nmz787> oh
00:17 < nmz787> well, the pixels are for feedback into the voice coil for the lens shift
00:17 < nmz787> it gets a reflectance signal from the disc, and so can tell if its off-track
00:17 < nmz787> then adjusts in the right direction
00:18 < fenn> adjusts what?
00:18 < nmz787> LCD must just attenuate the edges, or the center I guess
00:18 < nmz787> the voice coil that holds the final lens
00:18 < nmz787> the one that if you poke with a pen tip, will move
00:19 < nmz787> the stepper motor does coarse movement, and fine movement is achieved with the voice coil
00:19 < fenn> i guess this is "tuning mirror f"?
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00:20 < nmz787> no it would be h
00:20 < nmz787> fib 1 (b) part h
00:20 < nmz787> fig
00:20 < fenn> is h included in the chunk of metal with the bits and bobs in it?
00:21 < nmz787> "n. Finally, the beam goes through the objective lens h, which is mounted on an actuator system that can tilt the lens, or move it horizontally or vertically to micro-focus."
00:22 < fenn> ok i know what that looks like
00:22 < nmz787> yeah its the lens that is right next to the CD
00:22 < nmz787> the one you could see in a walkman
00:22 < fenn> cd-drives didnt have all this other crap though
00:22 < nmz787> they had the sensor d
00:23 < nmz787> al-track based optical drive do
00:23 < nmz787> all
00:23 < fenn> of course
00:23 < nmz787> hyphens all messed up
00:23 < nmz787> the beam shaping is just to clean up whatever weird shape or harmonics the diode laser produces
00:23 < nmz787> maybe merge multiple diodes into one beam
00:23 < nmz787> who knows
00:24 < nmz787> but they come out standard
00:24 < nmz787> to some spec
00:24 < nmz787> idk if that would be some redbook extension
00:24 < nmz787> i remember reading that in a cdrom manual when i was a kid, redbook
00:24 < fenn> a highly technical term referring to a book with a red cover
00:26 < fenn> hey guyz lets make a data storage system using a sequence of bubbles in a liquid channel
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00:26 < fenn> red bubbles, blue bubbles
00:26 < fenn> you know you wanna do bubbles
00:26 < kanzure> how would calibration/alignment work
00:27 < kanzure> without video
00:27 < fenn> their lines aren't very straight
00:28 < fenn> probably an eccentric leadscrew
00:28 < kanzure> oh look they include fucking scale bars
00:29 < kanzure> BOM, scale bars, sanity, pick none
00:31 < kanzure> not having to deal with microscopes is nice
00:31 < kanzure> why didn't they try a more complex design
00:31 < fenn> not being able to see your work is not so nice
00:32 < fenn> i think they were just screwing around
00:35 < nmz787> making gratings is useful
00:35 < nmz787> and works well for tests
00:35 < nmz787> you just compare spectra against a known good grating
00:36 < nmz787> i.e. a plot of your light source from a good spectrometer
00:36 < nmz787> then you get similar plots from items you generate
00:36 < fenn> the grating would have turned out better if they only had the laser on in a single direction (instead of boustrophedon)
00:36 < fenn> .wik boustrophedon
00:36 < yoleaux> "Boustrophedon (/ˌbaʊstrɵˈfiːdən/ or /ˌbuːstroʊˈfiːdən/; from Greek βουστροφηδόν, boustrophēdon “ox-turning” from βοῦς, bous, “ox” and στροφή, strophē, “turn”; that is, turning like oxen in ploughing) is a kind of bi-directional text, mostly seen in ancient manuscripts and other inscriptions." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boustrophedon
00:37 < fenn> so the periodic errors would line up and the lines would at least be parallel if not straight
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00:40 < nmz787> ok well buy some stuff and send it my way
00:40 < nmz787> i g2g get to sleep
00:43 < nmz787> send those $? newmark stages my way :)
00:43 < nmz787> later
00:56 < kanzure> stages?
00:56 < kanzure> fenn: i want to avoid a committee as much as possible
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05:16 < dpk> paperbot: http://www.jbe-platform.com/content/journals/10.1075/dia.12.1.12las
05:16 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/480a002e9c963de3a405322f278be14e.txt
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07:51 < ParahSailin> "[DIYbio] Candidatus Liberibacter: Solution?" i actually have a bunch of ngs and assembly on this bug
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08:27 < kanzure> multi-language virtualenv manager thing https://github.com/ekalinin/envirius
08:28 < sheena> kanzure: here?
08:29 < eudoxia> cool, i should make a CL plugin
08:32 < kanzure> eudoxia, for why?
08:33 < eudoxia> kanzure: because there's currently no environment manager for Common Lisp
08:34 < eudoxia> except for CIM but that doesn't do virtualenvs just handling different implementations
08:40 < kanzure> where does common lisp store its dependencies?
08:40 < eudoxia> quicklisp, the package manager, has a single global environment
08:41 < kanzure> haha
08:41 < eudoxia> i know, right?
08:42 < eudoxia> you can do manual virtualenvs: https://github.com/eudoxia0/cmacro/blob/master/Makefile
08:46 < kanzure> .title http://www.tedpella.com/mscope_html/evolution.htm
08:46 < yoleaux> Evolution, Portable Scientific Microscope
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09:29 < kanzure> http://www.amscope.com/highpower-multi-observing.html
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09:39 < kanzure> hm i didn't know manu's microscope was an actual micron-resolution microscope http://www.foldscope.com/#/foldscope/
09:43 < kanzure> paperbot: http://arxiv.org/abs/1403.1211
09:43 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Foldscope%3A%20Origami-based%20paper%20microscope.pdf
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10:27 < dpk> kanzure: http://piratepad.net/qJQPLHLE2p
10:34 < kanzure> dpk: hmm not sure how to cover the multiple request use case
10:35 < kanzure> i could imagine an intermediate object that contains "all relevant data", one of those datum is the page html, and other page html
10:35 < kanzure> then the object proxies requests itself, and either serves up existing content, or does the actual http requests against the live interwebs
10:39 < dpk> hmm, yes
10:45 < kanzure> dpk: the other competing issue is streams. i don't remember why papermonk-plosone-downloader isn't working at the moment.
10:45 < kanzure> it uses a streaming html parser, and as certain elements are parsed that match an xpath (etc), it emits json, and eventually the full json blob representing the metadata.
10:46 < kanzure> or, that's what's supposed to happen :)
10:46 < dpk> is it really necessary to use a streaming parser?
10:46 < dpk> for a start, if you use a streaming parser you can't comply with the HTML5 parsing spec
10:47 < kanzure> my (possibly bad) reasons were something about asynchronicity and callbacks
10:47 < kanzure> i could be convinced
10:52 < dpk> most of the Node HTML parsers i've seen will accept a stream as input
10:52 < dpk> they just don't return anything (or rather, call their callbacks) until the stream has ended
10:52 < kanzure> i was using https://github.com/substack/node-trumpet
10:53 < kanzure> which uh, uses sax
10:53 < kanzure> specifically this sax http://npmjs.org/package/sax
10:57 < kanzure> well anyway, non-streaming-html-parsing is probably fine
11:04 < kanzure> .title http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/museum/thurymulti.html
11:04 < yoleaux> Molecular Expressions Microscopy Primer: Museum of Microscopy
11:04 < kanzure> "Five eyepiece tubes are mounted on a central housing that contains a 90-degree prism, which allows light to be directed into each of the five tubes individually (but not simultaneously)."
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11:36 < kanzure> dpk: so does that complete the puzzle?
11:38 < dpk> in what sense?
11:38 < dpk> well, basically, yes, i think the proposed API there solves the embedability problem
11:39 < dpk> except that it'll be ughy to add multiple fetch support to it
11:44 < dpk> there's also the issue of Zotero.Item
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12:02 < kanzure> dpk: zotero can have its own wrappers; we just have to expose the right amount of data to zotero (e.g., "don't provide less than the previous implementation")
12:04 < kanzure> various zemax files (optics simulation related) https://code.google.com/p/zmxoct/source/browse/#svn%2Ftrunk%2FLED%20collimator
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12:20 < kanzure> oh yeah, i forgot about his visual diffs of pcbs http://www.evilmadscientist.com/2011/improving-open-source-hardware-visual-diffs/
12:20 < kanzure> .title http://www.xess.com/blog/schematics-really/
12:21 < yoleaux> kanzure: Sorry, that command (.title) took too long to process.
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12:25  * dpk nods
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13:07 < kanzure> "the oil meniscus makes you lose a refracting surface on the sphere and so your resolution gets cut in half"
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13:32 < kanzure> http://vimeo.com/89546954 "16mm film roll exposed directly to the light, without the use of any lens or photographic equipment.
13:32 < kanzure> The film was entirely developed and assembled in the dark room, using various bugs, organic elements, liquids, leafs, and bacteria growth in Petri dishes laid directly onto the film."
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14:03 < dpk> kanzure: so, if i were to start working on this properly tomorrow, with the goal of having at minimum all the paper-scrapers (i.e. none of the encyclopedia/news articles/other crap) ported over to the new system by 30 June … would that be something you would be interested in?
14:04 < dpk> i reckon i can get the scraper framework done on the first day, then from there it's just the schlep of converting the Zotero translators to use it
14:07 < kanzure> pm
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15:00 < kanzure> .title http://web.archive.org/web/20000130180314/http://atom.harvard.edu/~tweezer/parts.html
15:00 < yoleaux> Optical Tweezers -- Parts List
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15:14 < seba-> http://i.imgur.com/g2tS1O5.jpg
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15:35 < eudoxia> seba-: it's probably just me but the ribcage looks like it's being crushed
15:39 < seba-> it does
15:45 < FourFire> seba-, wow that's morbid
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15:59  * heath wonders what to do in nyc
16:00 < heath> museum of mathematics? genspace? nyc resistor?...
16:03 < seba-> heath, go on the WTC and see the view
16:04 < kanzure> paperbot: http://proceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org/proceeding.aspx?articleid=876621
16:04 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1117%2F12.625196
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16:20 < nmz787_i> heath: I haven't been to resistor, but I've been to genspace (worth checking out), and also hackManhattan (is ok)
16:21 < nmz787_i> heath: walking across the Brooklyn Bridge is a good activity, very nice city views
16:21 < nmz787_i> driving around parkway that encircles manhattan is cool too
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16:39 < kanzure> this is a very curious history of the microscope: http://yadda.icm.edu.pl/yadda/element/bwmeta1.element.dl-catalog-d8435d5e-d0d2-4ab8-9f98-496d28b24547/c/Vasco_Ronchi_-_new_history_of__191-204.pdf
16:39 < kanzure> it explains why the microscope was ignored for hundreds of years
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17:04 < nmz787_i> 100s?
17:04 < nmz787_i> we only got past chromatic aberration in the early 1800s
17:05 < nmz787_i> kanzure: what about LibreCAD?
17:06 < kanzure> what about it?
17:12 < nmz787_i> that's the question i asked you.
17:13 < kanzure> no i mean.. uh.
17:13 < kanzure> yes it exists
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17:18 < nmz787_i> but is it worth using
17:18 < nmz787_i> how does it compare to brlcad?
17:18 < nmz787_i> it says it is 'friends of brlcad'
17:18 < kanzure> it's 2d cad stuff iirc
17:20 < nmz787_i> huh, free open-source windows clone https://www.reactos.org/
17:20 < nmz787_i> and apparently libreCAD runs on it
17:20 < pasky> http://arxiv.org/abs/1404.7828 (extremely extensive survey on deep learning, yet not completely finished but still cool)
17:23 < kanzure> paperbot: http://arxiv.org/abs/1404.7828
17:23 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Deep%20Learning%20in%20Neural%20Networks%3A%20An%20Overview.pdf
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17:35 < pasky> (though it's awful they forgot to \use{hyperref} and references aren't clickable)
17:38 < kanzure> write them an angry email
17:40 < pasky> ok
17:41 < kanzure>  :)
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18:01 < kanzure> i wonder if ussr nutrition sucked too
18:01 < kanzure> i mean, nutrition knowledge
18:01 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, I'm a 4th year. No wait, I'm a 6th year.
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18:34 < gene_hacker> hey kanzure, how much do you know about nanoengineer/
18:34 < kanzure> i was rewriting it at one point, but stopped because i got bored
18:37 < gene_hacker> what's it doing under the hood
18:37 < gene_hacker> is it using a standard molecular dynamics tool?
18:38 < kanzure> nanoengineer offloads simulation to GROMACS and "that other one"
18:38 < kanzure> GAMESS
18:38 < kanzure> and uh, MPQC
18:39 < gene_hacker> all of it?
18:39 < gene_hacker> don't you need potentials for that?
18:40 < kanzure> simulation only happens when you click simulate
18:40 < kanzure> the rest of the time it's using its own internal modeling
18:41 < gene_hacker> so what does it pass to these simulations?
18:43 < gene_hacker> and are the simulations really all that accurate?
18:43 < kanzure> i dunno about accuracy or realism
18:43 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/blob/master/cad/src/simulation/
18:44 < kanzure> this may be the one that passes data to the simulator:
18:44 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/blob/master/cad/src/simulation/runSim.py
18:45 < kanzure> dingo: lolfest in that file and https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/blob/master/cad/src/simulation/movie.py
18:46 < kanzure> gene_hacker: this is where GROMACS is launched, https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/blob/master/cad/src/simulation/GROMACS/GROMACS.py#L73
18:46 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, but that was only a sample size of one.
18:47 < gene_hacker> isn't it just using gromacs just for energy minimization of DNA structures
18:48 < kanzure> hm maybe,
18:48 < kanzure> so the other half of nanoengineer was this thing called nanohive
18:48 < kanzure> over here:
18:48 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/tree/master/sim/src
18:50 < kanzure> oh wow i thought i had ripped out libpython23.a.gz from the history.. that shouldn't be there (makes the repo larger)
18:51 < kanzure> nice set of tests though,
18:51 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/tree/master/sim/src/tests/motors
18:54 < gene_hacker> so nanoengineer used nanohive?
18:55 < kanzure> iirc, nanohive was built independently, then nanorex acquired the software and technology, and may have integrated it directly into naneongineer
18:55 < kanzure> .title http://www.nanotech-now.com/news.cgi?story_id=17117
18:55 < yoleaux> Press Release: 'Nanorex acquires Nano-Hive'
18:56 < gene_hacker> and how was this thing made?
18:56 < gene_hacker> http://www.nanotech-now.com/images/Nanorex-smallbearing-esp1-big.gif
18:57 < gene_hacker> huh, so it seems like it could use several molecular dynamics systems?
18:58 < kanzure> gromacs, gamess, mpqc
18:58 < gene_hacker> can it still do that?
18:58 < kanzure> no idea :)
18:59 < kanzure> nanohive had some plugins: AIREBO, BondCalculator, MPQC_SClib, REBO_MBM
18:59 < kanzure> http://web.archive.org/web/20070504133937/http://www.nanoengineer-1.com/nh1/index.php?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=bodyframe/PluginReference.html#PluginReference.PIPs.REBO_MBM
19:00 < kanzure> and here's their mechanosynthesis simulation,
19:00 < kanzure> http://web.archive.org/web/20070504133937/http://www.nanoengineer-1.com/nh1/doc/diamond-ms-index.html
19:00 < kanzure> "Using the REBO_MBM Interaction Plugin described above, D. Huang et al's proposed reaction sequence of epitaxial diamond growth [13] , Sinnott et al's hydrogen abstraction [14] , and adaptations of Ralph Merkle's proposed hydrocarbon assembly tools [15] , we created an example of the mechanosynthesis of diamond with the simulator."
19:01 < kanzure> so, a while back, i built a chroot environment for running nanoengineer in the original linux environment it was developed for
19:01 < kanzure> the instructions are in the README
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19:02 < kanzure> i did not try to use the simulators, but the process would be (1) find the appropriate versions of GROMACS, MPQC, GAMESS, (2) put it in the chroot (just download it), (3) install/run..
19:04 < gene_hacker> so nanoengineer doesn't find potentials on it's own right?
19:05 < kanzure> i think the simulator might,
19:05 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/blob/13316409d2911388e7fbc4643804553dbc2f13ed/sim/src/BUGS
19:05 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/blob/13316409d2911388e7fbc4643804553dbc2f13ed/sim/src/minstructure.c#L58
19:05 < kanzure> line 56: // This is the potential function which is being minimized.
19:06 < gene_hacker> no, not that sort of the potential
19:06 < kanzure> updateVanDerWaals, calculatePotential, jigMinimizePotentialRotaryMotor, jigMinimizePotentialLinearMotor, ..
19:06 < kanzure> oh..
19:06 < gene_hacker> the force field you get around atoms and molecules which you get from DFT
19:06 < kanzure> electrostatic potential?
19:07 < gene_hacker> I think so ?
19:09 < nmz787_i> omg ben krasnow not only does everything else cool, he owns a deLorean http://www.tek.com/blog/mdo3000-tracks-delorean%E2%80%99s-uneven-idle?mkt_tok=3RkMMJWWfF9wsRonuKTJeu%2FhmjTEU5z17%2B4lXKe%2Fi4kz2EFye%2BLIHETpodcMRcFkNK%2BTFAwTG5toziV8R7XNKM13yt0QUxXi
19:16 < gene_hacker> and how hard is it to add a pseudo atom to nanoengineer?
19:17 < kanzure> modifying nanoengineer is a little painful because the code is poorly written, and nobody knows the source code anymore really
19:18 < kanzure> you can add new types of atoms but they will not work everywhere in the system, i think
19:18 < kanzure> the principle of duck typing applies because it's python, so that's nice..
19:19 < gene_hacker> so adding metal bonding would be pretty difficult with it?
19:20 < kanzure> no idea, sorry, might be simple
19:21 < nmz787_i> gene_hacker: how does metal bonding differ from whatever it has now?
19:21 < nmz787_i> wouldn't a metal just be able to get higher numbers of attachments?
19:21 < nmz787_i> or have stronger bonding?
19:21 < gene_hacker> it doesn't like it when I put a metal atom in
19:22 < gene_hacker> I can't add enough bonds
19:22 < kanzure> what does it do?
19:22 < kanzure> just error?
19:23 < nmz787_i> ben krasnow has a diffusion pump for giveaway for an informal contest
19:24 < gene_hacker> it seems to act strangely?
19:24 < gene_hacker> maybe it's correct?
19:25 < gene_hacker> but it just won't let me add additional bonds is all
19:26 < gene_hacker> I'm just looking for an easy to use and somewhat accurate molecular dynamics/statics system
19:27 < gene_hacker> and nanoengineer certainly fulfills the easy to use part
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19:35 < kanzure> gene_hacker: http://www.gromacs.org/Documentation/Terminology/Molecular_Dynamics_Simulations
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19:45 < delinquentme> Can you guys think of any machines which would allow me to make a filament somewhat like a fishingline ... but in a varying diameter?
19:46 < gene_hacker> man that documentation is so much more readable than the LAMMPS documentation
19:46 < gene_hacker> without changing the nozzle?
19:47 < gene_hacker> otherwise you're looking those things that are used in injection molding machines
19:49 < kanzure> nmz787: how does this guarantee feature sizes? http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/optics/photolithography/UV-LED%20exposure%20system%20for%20low-cost%20photolithography.pdf
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19:53 < kanzure> it does not seem to be using an objective
19:55 < kanzure> 5 mm LED tube diameter
19:55 < kanzure> "The optimum distance between the sample stage and the LEDs was found to be approximately 3.5 cm. "
20:01 < kanzure> "15 degree viewing angle"
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20:02 < gene_hacker> how does that even work?
20:03 < gene_hacker> it isn't use a lense?
20:03 < gene_hacker> oh I see
20:03 < gene_hacker> they put a photomask on the wafer
20:05 < kanzure> damn you're right
20:05 < kanzure> those jerks
20:07 < gene_hacker> so why aren't you doing maskless lithography with a projector hooked up to a microscope again?
20:08 < kanzure> something about buying connectors?
20:09 < kanzure> not sure which ones to get
20:10 < gene_hacker> what do you mean by connectors?
20:11 < kanzure> imagine a trinocular microscope, and a projector
20:11 < kanzure> the projector will fall off the microscope- that's what a connector fixes
20:12 < gene_hacker> why not get a really small projector?
20:12 < nmz787> i emailed ben krasnow and asked what shop equipment he recommends
20:12 < nmz787> he makes adapters and crap all the time
20:12 < kanzure> a really small projector also needs to be adapted to the microscope
20:12 < nmz787> a pico projector doesn't have as many pixels
20:13 < gene_hacker> how many pixels do you need?
20:13 < nmz787> and we're going to need to overepresent pixels a bit so we can align stepped areas
20:13 < gene_hacker> is making a connector your only problem?
20:13 < nmz787> overrepresent physical-pixels with DMD pixels
20:13 < nmz787> if that makes sense
20:13 < kanzure> technically, a projector photolithography system can be tested without a microscope (since the mirrors are 17 microns)
20:14 < nmz787> i had shyed away from DMD/DLP when i saw the bluray on a CNC paper
20:14 < nmz787> because its more available (cheaper to get bluray drive)
20:14 < nmz787> and i saw a paper with interpixel noise from a DMD... but i guess they weren't over-representing pixels
20:14 < juri_> http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2766#comic
20:14 < gene_hacker> well it can't be that accurate with a CNC
20:15 < nmz787> (i.e. you want 1 micron features, but use 10 pixels to fit into that 1 micron, so you can move the features sub-micron in software
20:15 < nmz787> if your stepper motors suck
20:15 < gene_hacker> well how low do you need the interpixel noise?
20:15 < kanzure> gene_hacker: he means an xy table, not a cnc
20:15 < gene_hacker> yeah I know
20:15 < nmz787> gene_hacker: quite low
20:15 < gene_hacker> you still need a pretty accurate x-y table
20:16 < nmz787> the interpixel peaks were enough to make the surface look kinda like an egg carton
20:16 < nmz787> not as deep as an egg carton
20:16 < nmz787> but you could see it
20:16 < nmz787> it is more crap to have to model, more complex models
20:16 < gene_hacker> and this was done where?
20:16 < nmz787> which means the hydrodynamics will be more complex
20:17 < gene_hacker> hydrodynamics of?
20:17 < gene_hacker> low Re flow?
20:17 < nmz787> of the liquids and molecules contained therein
20:17 < gene_hacker> this is for microfluidics right?
20:18 < gene_hacker> and wouldn't you have the same problem with a laser?
20:18 < nmz787> like for some things like sorting cells you don't care as much about nano smoothness, but more about micro
20:18 < nmz787> but for DNA it might be the opposite
20:18 < nmz787> or you care about both
20:18 < gene_hacker> because the laser beam is gaussian?
20:18 < nmz787> cause DNA can get ripped or trapped in a low-pressure zone
20:18 < gradstudentbot> Hood life: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=296519020495014
20:19 < nmz787> the difference is moving the beam smoothly as you trace
20:19 < nmz787> wtf gradstudentbot you're on facebook?
20:19 < gradstudentbot> The autoclave smells really good.
20:19 < gene_hacker> again, it's low reynolds number flow
20:19 < nmz787> ?
20:19 < nmz787> explain
20:19 < gradstudentbot> This seems to be based on surface normals.
20:20 < fenn> rob rhinehart is going to be in the colbert report in 10 min
20:20 < gene_hacker> in other words, you get practically no vorticity
20:20 < nmz787> yeah but its surface area
20:21 < gene_hacker> so the worry with DLP is that it will produce surfaces that are too rough?
20:21 < nmz787> that's one thought
20:21 < nmz787> and availability/price
20:21 < gene_hacker> and what feature size are you trying to make?
20:22 < nmz787> also reliability with UV exposure
20:22 < nmz787> I'm aiming for 1 to 10 microns
20:22 < nmz787> a blu-ray has optics we wouldn't mess with
20:22 < nmz787> so billions of engineering $$$$ behind them
20:22 < nmz787> vs our duck-tape mounted projector on some ebay lens
20:23 < kanzure> so, why are you asking that ben person? could you just measure the projector and measure the ocular port dimensions and tell me those numbers instead?
20:23 < nmz787> they're all good ideas, i'd like to try them all
20:23 < nmz787> and compare
20:23 < nmz787> i asked ben about shop equipment
20:23 < gene_hacker> so how are you going to move a bluray laser to within 10 micrometer accuracy?
20:23 < kanzure> you don't
20:24 < kanzure> you move the sample
20:24 < nmz787> my garage is more convenient than downtown hackerspaces
20:24 < kanzure> gene_hacker: http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/laser_etcher has the stage
20:24 < nmz787> you have a very high threadcount screw and a geared stepper motor
20:24 < nmz787> or possibly even use the bluray stepper setup
20:25 < nmz787> then use the voicecoil actuated objective on the bluray for nano/micro movement
20:25 < nmz787> that idea would not be constant illumination
20:25 < nmz787> so could have 'interpixel' noise
20:25 < nmz787> but it would be super cheap and easy
20:26 < nmz787> it could probably be hacked with polar coordinates too, idk, and just use the single bluray drive as-is
20:26 < dingo> 01:46 < kanzure> dingo: lolfest in that file and https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/blob/master/cad/src/simulation/movie.py
20:26 < nmz787> maybe with just a working distance adjustment
20:26  * dingo catching up
20:26 < gene_hacker> so don't you have to index the sample with sub-resolution you want to achieve?
20:26 < nmz787> you have to control with better than you want
20:27 < dingo> thats a lot of 3rd party import hehe
20:27 < nmz787> if that's what you're asking
20:27 < dingo>     def get_sim_posns(self): #bruce 060111 renamed and revised this from get_posns, for use in approximate fix of bug 1297
20:27 < dingo>         # note: this method is no longer called as of bruce 060112, but its comments are relevant and are referred to
20:27 < dingo>         # from several files using the name of this method. It's also still correctly implemented, so we can leave it in for now.
20:27 < dingo> cute
20:27 < dingo> does any of this code supposed to work
20:27 < kanzure> yep... check the README for fancy graphics.
20:28 < gene_hacker> is this good enough: http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/130719/ncomms3103/full/ncomms3103.html?message-global=remove
20:28 < kanzure> .title
20:28 < yoleaux> Desktop nanofabrication with massively multiplexed beam pen lithography
20:28 < dingo> kanzure: if we invited you to san jose in the long future would you make it?
20:28 < dingo> we were discussing today to invite you sometime in december
20:28 < dingo> that if we planned it out long enough you might come
20:29 < dingo> "and leave his apartment"
20:29 < kanzure> dingo: yep
20:29 < dingo> great
20:29 < nmz787> dingo: aww i was just in san mateo at the maker faire
20:29 < kanzure> dingo: the beauty of being free is that i can choose to be wherever i want..
20:30 < dingo> mm i have a lot to learn from you
20:30 < kanzure> also the way of lard
20:30 < dingo> "bruce" occurs like five hundred times in this file
20:30 < dingo> why doesn't bruce get his shit together and do his TODO's
20:30 < kanzure> bruce appears everywhere
20:30 < kanzure> throughout the whole project
20:30 < gene_hacker> 120 nm line width
20:31 < nmz787> gene_hacker: trying to get full copy
20:31 < nmz787> hold on
20:31 < kanzure> dingo: it's just endless,
20:31 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/blob/master/cad/src/model/part.py
20:31 < dingo> i missed the makerfair unfortunately
20:32 < dingo> in detroit, MI, it was like .. one parking lot, not very large
20:32 < dingo> i hear the one in california is *huge*
20:32 < nmz787> yeah
20:32 < dingo> i had a good time in the detroit one, i taught lock picking to children
20:32 < dingo> it was great
20:32 < nmz787> cool
20:32 < kanzure> i think there was at least 1 trampling at the bay area one
20:32 < nmz787> i went to the lockpicking area
20:32 < nmz787> i was teaching kids how to take stuff apart
20:32 < dingo> but i have a masterlock i found on the street i've been trying to pick for a week now, i'm not feeling very proficient
20:33 < dingo> kids are great
20:33 < nmz787> this chinese lock i had at home it pretty tough even though i think its from harbor freight
20:33 < dingo> i used to tutor college students in programming, but i really think my future is in tutoring children to program
20:33 < dingo> they got the right mindset -- doing it only for the joy of doing it -- nothing more
20:33 < nmz787> i feel like its cheapness made the insides sloppy which makes it harder
20:33 < nmz787> but i'm a total n00b
20:33 < dingo> college students and adults have this "how do i make money from this" attitude that kind of burns it all away
20:34 < dingo> yeah the worst lock i ever picked was a rusty old crusty piece of junk
20:34 < gene_hacker> oh you need a weird subwavelength aperture array, a scanning probe lithography system, and a DLP chip
20:34 < dingo> i was just considering that the other day
20:34 < dingo> lockpicking is only easy on brand new locks from home depot
20:34 < dingo> the real challenge is doing *any* lock, in any situation, no matter how rusty it is
20:34 < nmz787> http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Desktop_nanofabrication_with_massively_multiplexed_beam_pen_lithography.pdf
20:34 < kanzure> gene_hacker: dlp dev kit is like $8k sux
20:34 < dingo> if they just machined them poorly -- that makes it more challenging!
20:34 < dingo> thoguh the most *impossible* lock i ever tried to pick was an albaloy
20:34 < nmz787> kanzure: you bought me a DLP dev kit, essentially... the only difference is the framerate
20:35 < kanzure> the actual dev kit probably comes with other goodies
20:35 < dingo> abloy
20:35 < nmz787> not too much
20:35 < nmz787> a light that is connected in the right way
20:35 < dingo> they have these half-moon structures, based in concentric circules, its imposible to pick by traditional means
20:35 < nmz787> maybe a lens with a standard mount
20:35 < nmz787> i think i heard protec was the best one
20:35 < kanzure> dingo: what you need is x-ray imaging of locks before you pick them
20:35 < nmz787> but that could have been my bike helmet from when i was a kid
20:36 < nmz787> dingo: any recommendations for getting a key outta a car ignition?
20:36 < nmz787> i bought an extractor set, but had no luck
20:36 < nmz787> couldn't seem to get onto the tip of the key
20:36 < nmz787> its broken halfway in the ignition, so nothing sticking out
20:37 < nmz787> there's even at least one (i think only 1) pin blockin it in
20:37 < gene_hacker> you have a DLP dev kit?
20:37 < dingo> ahh broken halfway in huh
20:37 < nmz787> nah just a projector i modified
20:37 < dingo> i've used some very nice needle-nose pliars or very strong magnets for such tasks
20:37 < nmz787> had to make a little board to fake out the fan speed sensors
20:37 < nmz787> hmm
20:38 < gene_hacker> so you've tried the microscope trick then?
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20:38 < dingo> once you pick a lock a few times and learn the pins and depths, it becomes easier
20:38 < nmz787> i was using like the 0.2mm extractor to get between the key and the sleeve or whatever... the keyway
20:38 < nmz787> gene_hacker: i gave up when i didn't think of a way to attach the two
20:38 < nmz787> i really didn't want to build things out of 2x4s
20:38 < dingo> so theres truth the x-ray trick
20:38 < dingo> kanzure: sl4shd0t tells me she stopped by to say hellow
20:39 < dingo> but she spelled her nickname backwards
20:39 < kanzure> stopped by where?
20:39 < dingo> it was like t0dhs4ls or some such
20:39 < dingo> here
20:39 < nmz787> i went to a 4 yr old's bday party last weekend, thought about getting her a clear lock and some picks
20:39 < kanzure> oh
20:39 < nmz787> but idk if the parents would be OK
20:39 < dingo> then she was embaressed and left, she's shy like that
20:39 < dingo> though she's married, she claims you are very cute! how about that
20:39 < dingo> i didn't say that hehe
20:39 < kanzure> tell her i'm too old for her
20:40 < dingo> haw haw haw
20:40 < nmz787> this is logged, you did say that :P
20:40 < dingo> damn logs'll be the end of me
20:40 < dingo> i'll be in court one day contesting irc logs i know it
20:42 < kanzure> oh that was on the 9th
20:42 < kanzure> that's pretty funny, i said hi within a few seconds
20:42 < kanzure> typical
20:43 < kanzure> nmz787: what photoresists do you have?
20:44 < dingo> i had an angry parent come to me because i gave her 12yr-old-boy a 2-item lockpick set from my own, hehe
20:44 < dingo> theres no laws against it
20:44 < dingo> its good to encourage children to break into security systems
20:44 < dingo> people should know these are just techincal formalities
20:45 < dingo> "its locked, i guess we just give up, then" is not the right attitude
20:45 < kanzure> hmm would be nice to have a micro LED array thing: http://techcrunch.com/2014/05/02/apple-acquires-power-efficient-led-tech-company-luxvue/
20:45 < kanzure> oh i wonder if it's switchable
20:46 < nmz787> kanzure: just the ebay stuff right now, though i should get some su-8
20:46 < nmz787> kanzure: i have a lab address for shipping stuff to
20:46 < kanzure> i haven't been tracking the names of the materials that respond to which wavelengths
20:46 < kanzure> it's probably a long list of options
20:47 < gene_hacker> this is interesting:
20:47 < gene_hacker> http://repositories.lib.utexas.edu/bitstream/handle/2152/3406/luy88570.pdf?sequence=2
20:47 < kanzure> .title
20:47 < kanzure> oh, pdf
20:47 < yoleaux> kanzure: Sorry, that command (.title) crashed.
20:49 < gradstudentbot> That result wasn't repeatable.
20:49 < nmz787> kanzure: also the photoresist company up the street
20:51 < kanzure> in that paper, "Patterns of each layer are drawn in a series of PowerPoint slides"
20:51 < kanzure> oh well
20:51 < kanzure> why not something more hilarious, like "in excel spreadsheets zoomed out all the way"
20:52 < gene_hacker> nmz787 any chance you could measure how much UV your projector throws out?
20:53 < nmz787> not until my spectrometer is built
20:53 < nmz787> or kanzure sends me one
20:53 < nmz787> anyway i was shining a 405nm laser into it
20:53 < nmz787> so it would be 99% 405nm
20:53 < nmz787> kanzure: powerpoint is pretty easy
20:53 < nmz787> kanzure: you can have timers for each slide
20:53 < gene_hacker> you were shining a laser through a projector?
20:54 < nmz787> yep
20:54 < nmz787> last year
20:54 < nmz787> or the one before
20:54 < gene_hacker> so it isn't too hard to replace the lamp?
20:54 < nmz787> it came without one
20:54 < nmz787> from ebay
20:54 < nmz787> i had to make a voltage to freq converter basically
20:54 < nmz787> to trick out the fan speed sensors
20:54 < gene_hacker> because if you can make a projector throw out a crapload of UV, you can do some fun stuff at the macroscale
20:54 < nmz787> https://github.com/nmz787/DLP-Projector-fan-and-lightbulb-override-msp430
20:55 < nmz787> UV is a concern of mine for longevity of the DMD method
20:55 < gene_hacker> well what's the DMD made of?
20:55 < nmz787> as they're not rated (no literature on it in the manual for example)
20:55 < nmz787> and its getting closer to where photoelectric effect is stronger
20:56 < nmz787> probably Al
20:56 < nmz787> but there are electronics under each mirror
20:56 < nmz787> and between
20:56 < gene_hacker> http://www.ti.com/lit/an/dlpa031c/dlpa031c.pdf
20:57 < kanzure> "UV windows have special AR coatings designed to be more
20:57 < kanzure> transmissive for ultraviolet wavelength, v"
20:58 < nmz787> for the normal window its still in the 90s %
20:58 < nmz787> guess longevity should be ok then
20:59 < nmz787> unless they actually have changed their DMD design
20:59 < nmz787> and this is actually a special part
20:59 < nmz787> for a special part
21:01 < nmz787> heh, that paper is by Yi Lu... I know a guy named Yue Li
21:02 < nmz787> i actually was able to just twist the projector lense past its normal zoom set point and focus the image to about 2cm per side
21:03 < nmz787> but you've got no idea if its still focused in that usage
21:03 < nmz787> since it was engineered to be all in focus when the image is like 8 ft per side
21:04 < gene_hacker> they are basically two types of DMDs, ones for NIR, and ones that'll do every wavelength up until they start passing through it
21:05 < nmz787> passing through was never my concern
21:05 < nmz787> it was the photons that make it past, not through
21:05 < gene_hacker> point is, if you can throw out a crap load of UV light, you can make precision ceramic molds for making turbine
21:05 < nmz787> lol
21:06 < nmz787> my farmer /does/ have a stream he needs power extracted from
21:06 < gene_hacker> by passing through, I mean, you can use almost any wavelength of light up to x-rays
21:06 < nmz787> yeah i got ya
21:07 < gene_hacker> I don't mean water turbines, though you could do that, I mean single crystalline jet turbine blades
21:07 < nmz787> nano?
21:07 < gene_hacker> macro
21:07 < gene_hacker> they're just about the hardest thing to make ever
21:07 < gradstudentbot> Seriously, who moved my samples?
21:07 < nmz787> cool, so for my future nuclear steam car/VTOL
21:08 < gradstudentbot> Where are the pipettes?
21:08 < gradstudentbot> You know, I can just do consulting.
21:12 < nmz787> gene_hacker: then why can't one use that method to make glass microfludicis?
21:12 < gene_hacker> because you can't cast class?
21:12 < gene_hacker> *glass
21:12 < nmz787> gene_hacker: http://invenios.com/micro-fabrication-resources/foturan-photo-sensitive-glass/
21:12 < nmz787> i thought you said it was photo based
21:13 < nmz787> "It is a lithium-potassium glass dotted with small amounts of silver and cerium oxides, produced by Schott Glass Corp."
21:13 < gene_hacker> http://ddm.me.gatech.edu/page8/page8.html
21:14 < gene_hacker> it is, you are exposing photopolymer with ceramic particles in it
21:14 < kanzure> hah "Direct Digital Manufacturing of Airfoils via Large Area Maskless Photopolymerization "
21:14 < kanzure> large area.. wonder how large.
21:14 < gene_hacker> how large do you want it?
21:14 < kanzure> meters
21:15 < gene_hacker> that's what they're trying to do
21:15 < gene_hacker> they take a projector and move it across a big vat of photopolymer
21:17 < gradstudentbot> Oh great, my paper got accepted with no revisions. Nice.
21:18 < kanzure> why is radstudentbot acting up
21:31 < kanzure> ParahSailin: chinese real estate is weird http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-11/mindblowing-fact-day-china-has-over-52-million-vacant-homes#comment-4846800
21:31 < kanzure> (i mean the "never sell your last home" aspect)
21:32 < ParahSailin> zerohedge is reporting decade old news now?
21:32 < kanzure> yeah i dunno why it's reporting that
21:32 < kanzure> but i meant the comment i linked to
21:35 < kanzure> this one is also weird:
21:35 < kanzure> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-11/chinese-gdp-set-plunge-government-shuts-20-million-wechat-prostitution-accounts
21:36 < kanzure> qq isn't favored any more?
21:37 < nmz787> "More than one in five homes in China's urban areas is vacant"
21:37 < nmz787> that doesn't seem too much
21:37 < nmz787> 20% extra
21:37 < ParahSailin> im kinda surprised that you read that far into the zh comment section
21:38 < kanzure> well i skip the articles
21:38 < kanzure> all news sources are complete bullshit, but sometimes they trick someone useful into commenting
21:38 < kanzure> that's how i found QuantumG (who now hates me, but whatever)
21:41 < nmz787> i;ve never heard of the site before
21:41 < kanzure> it's not worth your time
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21:53 < fenn> nmz787: librecad is just qcad minus some non-free fonts and stuff
21:55 < fenn> "QCad has been removed from wheezy for depending on qt3 and containing non-distributable fonts, patterns, libraries, and documentation. LibreCAD is the community-maintained qt4 port of QCad and has superseded Qcad in Debian as the package "librecad"."
21:57 < gene_hacker> why can't somebody just write a decent CAD kernel?
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21:59 < kanzure> because all the people that understand nurbs intersection math happen to be terrible programmers
22:01 < kanzure> i have tried it a few times, but it was difficult for me to envision the correct implementation plus write sane tests for each component at the same time (and if you don't write tests the whole way, then you're screwed...)
22:13 < nmz787> maybe that's a reason to start with requirements/tests completed first?
22:15 < kanzure> hard to do if you don't know the full implementation
22:16 < kanzure> it's not just line/line intersection stuff, it's also tests of the weirdo polynomial curve subdivision magic, knots, etc
22:16 < kanzure> here's a basic one.. http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cad/boole/
22:17 < ParahSailin> lol qq
22:17 < ParahSailin> yeah weixin is the only popular one now
22:17 < gene_hacker> yup, all that math is pretty weird
22:18 < gene_hacker> or someone could just fix that open cascade
22:18 < kanzure> gene_hacker: i started looking more closely at opencascade's implementation, http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cad/opencascade/
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22:18 < fenn> qcad/librecad works fine for what it does; we don't always need a super mongo ultra complexicated solution
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22:20 < fenn> i'd rather have an "embedded qcad" than having to learn how opencascade does it
22:20 < fenn> of course parametric stuff gets complicated
22:21 < fenn> qcad should be parametric anyway
22:22 < gradstudentbot> You used the wrong formula.
22:23 < kanzure> i got stuck tracing opencascade's intersection routine somewhere around "pave blocks", see http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cad/opencascade/#BRepAlgo_BOP
22:32 < kanzure> by "see" i mean don't click it will haunt you
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22:59 < kanzure> joepie91_: poke..
23:00 < joepie91_> morning
23:00  * joepie91_ boots up brain
23:00 < kanzure> paranoia stuff?
23:00 < joepie91_> hmm?
23:01 < kanzure> just bugging you
23:01 < joepie91_> oh
23:01 < joepie91_> derp
23:01 < joepie91_> sorry, brain did not make the connection to pdfparanoia
23:01 < joepie91_> I read it as actual paranoia :P
23:01 < kanzure> isn't it though
23:01 < joepie91_> but yeah, I've been learning PDF, and my estimate is that it's just going to be 2 suddenly motivated days of non-stop coding
23:01 < joepie91_> one for PDF inspector
23:02 < joepie91_> one for pdfparanoia architecture/plugins
23:02 < joepie91_> PDF is a surprisingly reasonable format
23:02 < joepie91_> for something that comes from Adobe
23:02 < kanzure> anything that lets you embed javascript does not sound reasonable
23:02 < joepie91_> kanzure: HTML ;)
23:02 < kanzure> html is not reasonable
23:03 < joepie91_> sure it is
23:03 < joepie91_> or well
23:03 < joepie91_> it is /now/
23:03 < kanzure> you are clearly part of the sgml illuminati
23:03 < joepie91_> hehe
23:03 < joepie91_> don't you dare suggest xhtml
23:03 < joepie91_> that was a disaster
23:03 < kanzure> nope
23:03 < joepie91_> clear case of correctness trumping usability
23:04 < joepie91_> (where "correctness" is very subjective)
23:04 < joepie91_> anyway, kanzure, I should be able to hack pdf.js into a full-blown inspector
23:04 < joepie91_> which would take care of the object highlighting and all that stuff
23:04 < kanzure> is there a way to trick mozilla people into maintaining that inspector aspect
23:05 < joepie91_> in pdf.js viewer, you maen?
23:05 < joepie91_> mean *
23:05 < kanzure> yeah
23:05 < joepie91_> perhaps
23:05 < joepie91_> I've found the devs to be very receptive to tickets
23:05 < kanzure> it is always nice when people who aren't yourownself end up maintaining stuff
23:05 < joepie91_> generally a good sign
23:05 < joepie91_> so not excluding the possibility that I could eventually integrate it into the default viewer and pull-request it back
23:06 < joepie91_> the architecture of pdf.js already more or less facilitates it
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23:07 < joepie91_> (the viewer doesn't, though)
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23:10 < kanzure> nmz787: you should take measurements on the microscope's ocular ports and projector's exit port, and then tell me those numbers, so that i can figure out adapter things
23:11 < kanzure> also pics of those two's ports would help (but the measurements are more important i think)
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23:42 < kanzure> oh good, someone tested using 35 mm film negatives for microfabrication:
23:42 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/optics/photolithography/Simple%20photolithographic%20rapid%20prototyping%20of%20microfluidic%20chips.pdf
23:46 < heath> thanks for the advice nmz787
23:48 < kanzure> "However, the method is limited to larger features (greater than 50 microns) and low aspect ratios (1:3)"
23:48 < kanzure> well, how much greater than 50? >:(
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23:53 < heath> nice link
--- Log closed Thu Jun 12 00:00:32 2014