--- Log opened Wed Jun 25 00:00:45 2014 00:00 -!- entelechy [~elysium@186.176.35.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:07 -!- petraya [~asakharov@24.60.79.55] has quit [Quit: quit] 00:21 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:30 -!- strangewarp_ [~strangewa@c-67-176-51-230.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:23 -!- eligrey [~eligrey@oftn/board/eligrey] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:23 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:23 -!- sapiosexual [~sapiosexu@d75-156-90-46.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:26 -!- mokstar [~Mookaborb@unaffiliated/mokstar] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:39 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-89-243-47-30.as13285.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:48 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 30.0/20140605174243]] 01:57 -!- moktsar [~Mookaborb@c-24-21-241-171.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:01 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:03 -!- mosasaur [~mosasaur@unaffiliated/mosasaur] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:29 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-50-183-58-192.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:45 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:51 -!- mosasaur [~mosasaur@unaffiliated/mosasaur] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:59 -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:52 -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:53 -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:54 -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 03:54 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:55 -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:55 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-237-237-58.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:55 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-211-157-103.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:56 -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 03:56 -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:25 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:29 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:30 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:33 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:54 -!- Guest92127 [~abe@c-71-192-163-80.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:55 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:00 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:07 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-89-243-47-30.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:08 -!- seba-- [~hel1@cpe-90-157-233-7.static.amis.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:08 -!- seba- [~hel1@cpe-90-157-233-7.static.amis.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:19 -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@78.162.42.102] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:19 -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@78.162.42.102] has quit [Changing host] 05:19 -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:21 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:23 < kanzure> paperbot: http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/4/161/161ra151 05:24 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1126%2Fscitranslmed.3004685 05:33 < kanzure> "It was discovered that LibreOffice unconditionally executed certain VBA macros, contrary to user expectations." (CVE-2014-0247) 05:33 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-89-243-47-30.as13285.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:02 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:15 < ebowden> paperbot: http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/4/161/161ra151.full.pdf 06:15 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1126%2Fscitranslmed.3004685 06:16 < ebowden> Damn. 06:17 < EnLilaSko> Does anyone here know Chinese? 06:20 < ebowden> Don't know. 06:20 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-94-6.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:22 < ebowden> EnLilaSko, I know someone who knows 4 languages, and could, if he were inclined, translate for you. 06:23 < ebowden> What do you need translated? 06:23 < EnLilaSko> It's quite a lot, but I just want to know the "basics" of it 06:23 < EnLilaSko> http://imgur.com/a/7RMhr#3FAtj27 06:23 < EnLilaSko> All pics 06:27 < ebowden> He's doing something now. 06:27 < ebowden> Not really sure what. 06:30 < EnLilaSko> No problem at all, I'm always here ;) 06:31 < ebowden> So, are you a biologist of some sort, out of curiosity? 06:31 < EnLilaSko> I'm not in uni yet (well, studied random courses at 75%), but will start molecular biology soon 06:32 < ebowden> Ah, ok. 06:32 < EnLilaSko> This was just to play with CES, see if it enhances sleep 06:34 < ebowden> Now, so you know, this guy has an IQ of over 140, and is a recent champion in his uni debate circuit, but he's out of practice and doped up to the eyeballs on opiates after surgery, so don't go expecting miracles. 06:34 < EnLilaSko> lol 06:34 < EnLilaSko> Sure 06:35 < ebowden> So, what exactly are those pictures of? 06:35 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:38 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:39 < ebowden> Ah, he says he's still looking through it, and that the opiates have taken his IQ down to "Ray Comfort level.". 06:40 < ebowden> He also says what if you want this whole thing translated it's going to take a while. 06:41 < ebowden> EnLilaSko? 06:41 < EnLilaSko> The pictures are of a manual 06:41 < EnLilaSko> I just want to know about the modes 06:42 < EnLilaSko> You can press up/down to decide frequency, I want to know how that part works 06:42 < kanzure> yes we have a few mandarin people 06:42 < kanzure> don't ask to ask, lest you wish to be cursed with irc black magic 06:42 -!- cyborg_ [~cyborg@cpe-70-113-84-109.austin.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:42 < kanzure> cyborg_: hello 06:43 < cyborg_> salutations 06:43 < kanzure> .g 70.113 "kanzure" 06:43 < yoleaux> http://gnusha.org/logs/html/2008-04-01.log.html 06:43 < ebowden> EnLilaSko, awaiting his reply. 06:44 < kanzure> .py print (0x4671546D - 0x46713670) 06:44 < yoleaux> 7677 06:44 < kanzure> cyborg_: according to my math, you are presently down the street from me 06:44 < kanzure> so please shut off the water 06:46 < ebowden> EnLilaSko, he's working on the relevant section now. 06:48 < cyborg_> kanzure, prove it :) 06:50 < kanzure> what brings you here? 06:51 < cyborg_> kanzure, and dont be a creep and ring my door bell. lol 06:51 < kanzure> so you're saying i should ring it before i come in, so that i don't be a creep? 06:51 < kanzure> woudn't it be easier if you just invite me inside? 06:51 < cyborg_> kanzure, just looking for someone that may be able to assist me with a USB Midi device thast does not have supported drivers in ubuntu. 06:52 < kanzure> you'll probably have to write your own drivers 06:52 < cyborg_> kanzure, iwould like to bind a generic driver to it and see it's functionality and then possibly dev a new driver 06:53 < cyborg_> hehe 06:53 < ebowden> Huh, cyborg_, you're right near kanzure, the guy apparently famous for beating the FDA with his whiffle bat of justice. 06:53 < ebowden> Interesting. 06:53 < kanzure> .d whiffle bat 06:53 < yoleaux> Sorry, I couldn't find a definition for 'whiffle bat'. 06:53 < kanzure> .ud whiffle 06:53 < kanzure> .u whiffle 06:53 < yoleaux> No characters found 06:54 < kanzure> hm! 06:54 < ParahSailin> it is warranty 06:55 < cyborg_> ParahSailin, im guessing you are asking if it is still under warranty 06:55 < ebowden> Kanzure, it is the colloquial name for those large inflatable bats that are given to children in showbags. 06:55 < cyborg_> ParahSailin, answer would be no 06:55 < ParahSailin> the chinese posted is a warranty 06:55 < ParahSailin> i guess if you want to whole thing, just ocr it 06:55 < kanzure> does chinese ocr work? 06:56 < ebowden> EnLilaSko, he would like to know how soon you need the translation. 06:56 < EnLilaSko> Whenever he feels like it 06:56 < EnLilaSko> No need for it now 06:58 < ParahSailin> chinese ocr works fine http://www.newocr.com/ 06:58 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:58 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:59 < cyborg_> soooo..... anyone game to help out 06:59 < kanzure> don't ask to ask 06:59 < seba-> is anyone into cancer 06:59 < ebowden_> EnLilaSko by now, you mean at the moment? 06:59 < ebowden_> (Not that you don't actually need it anymore.) 06:59 < EnLilaSko> By this week 06:59 < EnLilaSko> By this month 07:00 < kanzure> seba-: you should say which specific form of cancer you're talking about 07:00 < cyborg_> seba-, sorry all out of cancer for the moment 07:00 < seba-> no like, cancer research 07:00 < kanzure> which specific cancer are you talking about 07:00 < ebowden_> Bread cancer. 07:00 < ebowden_> :D 07:00 < cyborg_> cheese cancer 07:01 < seba-> oh, well my grandma was diagnosed with cancer a few months ago, that kind of got me into this, it's kind of interesting 07:01 < seba-> mantle cell lymphoma 07:01 < seba-> it's a rather rare one, cyclin D1 overexpression, b-cells 07:01 < seba-> hm 07:01 < ParahSailin> they giving her the fancy new antibody drugs? 07:01 < seba-> ParahSailin yes 07:01 < seba-> but those aren't really new 07:01 < ParahSailin> oh yeah, which? 07:01 < seba-> they are 10y+ old 07:01 < seba-> rituximab of course 07:02 < seba-> well she is "cured" as in went into full remission 07:02 < kanzure> what you need is a targeted inhibitor of phosphatidylinositol-4,5-bisphosphate 3-kinase catalytic subunit delta isoform 07:02 < seba-> but of course i doubt that will last 07:02 < EnLilaSko> Does not seem to work that well ParahSailin 07:02 < seba-> i'm looking at curcumin, it seems a good thing 07:02 < EnLilaSko> Unless this is English 07:02 < EnLilaSko> ga&aEmmm.§m§?mma%.zg: 07:02 < seba-> but very low bioavailability 07:02 < ParahSailin> bro, click the box, make it do chinese instead of english 07:03 < seba-> does anyone have access to this 07:03 < seba-> https://www.thieme-connect.com/products/ejournals/abstract/10.1055/s-2006-957450 07:03 < EnLilaSko> Oh, I thought it was what language I wanted it translated too 07:03 < seba-> i'm wondering if the dose is oral or something else 07:03 < seba-> it doesn't say in the abstract 07:03 < kanzure> is this one of those cancers that has very large tumors? or is this one of those "haha you're fucked it's everywhere, but not yet metastatized" cancers? 07:03 < seba-> kanzure, 2nd 07:04 < kanzure> paperbot: https://www.thieme-connect.com/products/ejournals/abstract/10.1055/s-2006-957450 07:04 < ebowden_> seba- Have you heard of any new curcumin derivatives? 07:04 < paperbot> ConnectionError: HTTPSConnectionPool(host='www.thieme.connect.com', port=443): Max retries exceeded with url: /products/ejournals/abstract/10.1055/s-2006-957450 (Caused by : [Errno -2] Name or service not known) (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/adapters.py", line 375, in send) 07:04 < kanzure> seba-: you will have more success treating cancers that are isolated to tumors 07:04 < ebowden_> Also, seba_, curcumin can be made a lot more bioavailable if administered with piperine. 07:04 < seba-> ebowden_, well i'm looking at something "natural" 07:04 < ebowden_> A LOT more bioavailable. 07:04 < seba-> ebowden_, yes, i gave the link, but i can't find if it's oral 07:04 < seba-> it doesn't say 07:05 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:05 < ebowden_> Oh jeez, "natural"? You're not one of those are you? 07:05 < seba-> kanzure, MCL (mantle cell lymphoma) is treatable in vitro with curcumin 07:05 < EnLilaSko> That's awesome ParahSailin, thanks! 07:05 < seba-> ebowden_, no, i'm not 07:05 < ebowden_> Anyway, yes, it drastically increases oral bioavailability. 07:05 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:05 < seba-> ebowden_, but natural has many pluses 07:05 < cyborg_> wow i wish had known y'all when my dad was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer 07:05 < ebowden_> Oh boy. 07:06 < ParahSailin> everything is treatable in vitro 07:06 < seba-> ParahSailin, yes 07:06 < seba-> ebowden_, well for starters if it's natural it means usually that it's cheap+easily accessible 07:06 < ebowden_> Anyway, piperine can be found in a LOT of spicy foods. 07:06 < ParahSailin> so whats the deal with newer antibody drugs like ipilimumab 07:06 < seba-> ebowden_, yeah i've already extracted piperine once 07:07 < ebowden_> Well, there you go. Piperine and Curcumin, they go great together. 07:07 < kanzure> .wik ipilimumab 07:07 < yoleaux> "Ipilimumab (i pi lim′ ue mab; also known as MDX-010 and MDX-101), marketed as Yervoy, is a drug used for the treatment of cancer. It is approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for the treatment of melanoma, a type of skin cancer." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipilimumab 07:07 < seba-> ebowden_, also if she takes a natural compound it's more likely to get doctor's support 07:07 < gradstudentbot> Well, I can't really talk about it because I'm trying to get it published in Science or Nature. 07:07 < ParahSailin> how do you get more natural than an antibody 07:08 < kanzure> haha doctor's support 07:08 < seba-> ParahSailin, she's already taking those, rituximab 07:08 < kanzure> "not only do i want to cure cancer, but i also want approval from my local doctor" 07:08 < kanzure> .wik rituximab 07:08 < yoleaux> "Rituximab (trade names Rituxan, MabThera and Zytux) is a chimeric monoclonal antibody against the protein CD20, which is primarily found on the surface of immune system B cells. Rituximab destroys B cells and is therefore used to treat diseases which are characterized by excessive numbers of B cells, overactive B cells, or dysfunctional B cells." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rituximab 07:08 < ebowden_> LOL 07:08 < gradstudentbot> Let's pour a bunch of chemlights into a spinner flask and claim it's luminescent e.coli. 07:08 < seba-> well if it would be for me 07:08 < seba-> i wouldn't really care 07:09 < seba-> i would be willing to take highly experimental non-"natural" crap 07:09 < ParahSailin> seba-: can they get her the newer one i linked? 07:09 < ebowden_> Anyho. Your grandma wants something "natural"? 07:09 < seba-> ParahSailin, why would she take that one 07:10 < kanzure> ebowden_: you need to learn to read better 07:10 < kanzure> ebowden_: he already went over that. the answer is no. 07:10 < seba-> ebowden_, not really, but she doesn't want something highly experimental 07:10 < seba-> that could cause more harm than good 07:10 < ParahSailin> anti ctla4 works on the host immune system to make it attack cancer cells 07:11 < seba-> ParahSailin, doesn't seem to be for the type she has or a b-cell type 07:11 < ParahSailin> erm, you are not reading 07:11 < seba-> ParahSailin, anyway you have ibrutinib, which is rather ok, but not yet totally available in europe 07:11 < ParahSailin> anti ctla4 works on the host immune system to make it attack cancer cells 07:11 < kanzure> i think we're just surrounded by idiots who don't read 07:12 < kanzure> this is insufferable. why the fuck am i here. 07:12 < ParahSailin> it works on t cells, to make them attack other kinds of cells 07:12 < ParahSailin> so a t cell can attack a b cell, despite having a different first letter 07:12 < EnLilaSko> Lol, 90% of the pages seem to be sales letter 07:12 < seba-> ParahSailin, uhm, rituximab works the same way anyway 07:12 < EnLilaSko> Assuming the site can view it properly 07:13 < ParahSailin> nope, anti-cd20 just destroys b cells directly 07:14 < seba-> hm 07:14 < ParahSailin> which is kind of confusing i guess, when in one drug, the immune cells are the bad guy, and in another drug, immune cells are the good guy to be modulated by a fancy drug 07:15 < seba-> let's see if MCL has this CTLA-4 07:16 < ebowden_> I read that anti-inflammatory drugs, whilst controlling the side effects, didn't adversely affect the survival rates. 07:17 < ParahSailin> god, you are still not reading 07:18 < ParahSailin> all ctl cells have ctla-4 07:18 < ParahSailin> if she doesnt have ctl cells, she has bigger problems than cancer 07:19 < seba-> oh apparently ipilimumab is available 07:21 < seba-> ParahSailin ok i read now better lol 07:22 < seba-> interesting stuff 07:22 < seba-> isn't there any small molecule agent to do this 07:22 < seba-> lol 07:22 < seba-> preferably some from a spice! 07:24 < seba-> this could be a fun project 07:24 < seba-> finding a small molecule, that inhibits CTLA-4 :D 07:26 < seba-> anyway 07:26 < seba-> i'll try curcumin / piperine 07:26 < seba-> maybe it works 07:26 < seba-> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006295205002418 07:27 < kanzure> .title 07:27 < yoleaux> Curcumin (diferuloylmethane) inhibits constitutive NF-κB activation, induces G1/S arrest, suppresses proliferation, and induces apoptosis in mantle cell lymphoma 07:27 < kanzure> haha good job ignoring ParahSailin 07:27 < kanzure> way to go 07:28 < ParahSailin> ask the doctor why he doesnt give her the newest stuff 07:29 < seba-> ParahSailin, i think because it's not an agent within the established doctrine of treating this type of cancer 07:36 < seba-> ParahSailin, i think i'll have to wait that she gets the cancer back, then i will try to request ipilimumab + rituximab + ibrutinib combo. 07:40 < seba-> oh well 07:40 < kanzure> why a combination?? 07:41 < seba-> kanzure, because it works better! 07:41 < kanzure> uh... evidence? 07:41 < seba-> well the ipilimumab + rituximab is currently in clinical trials 07:41 < seba-> ibrutinib + rituximab has passed and works much better 07:44 < seba-> anyway, this curcumin/piperine seems promising for the mean while hm 08:01 < seba-> oh 08:01 < seba-> hypericin also inhibits NF-κB 08:01 < seba-> fun 08:02 < seba-> or not 08:02 < seba-> maybe i'm again not reading lol 08:03 -!- Twey [~twey@unaffiliated/twey] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:04 -!- Twey [~twey@unaffiliated/twey] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:13 < archels> EnLilaSko: out of interest, which device did you get? 08:13 < EnLilaSko> I'll try to find it again, 2 sec 08:15 < EnLilaSko> archels: http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/312098992.html 08:17 < archels> ha, that's pretty barebones 08:17 < archels> don't suppose you're planning on reverse engineering it? 08:17 -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:17 < EnLilaSko> Nah, don't have any skills for that 08:18 < EnLilaSko> Would love a proper unit though, ofc 08:18 < chris_99> what's the aliexpress thing do 08:18 < chris_99> i mean the sleeping aid thing 08:19 < kanzure> .title 08:19 < yoleaux> Wholesale Product Snapshot Product name is Sleeping electronic meter household multifunctional digital meridian therapy instrument sleeping physiotherapy 08:19 < EnLilaSko> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cranial_electrotherapy_stimulation 08:20 < chris_99> aha 08:20 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:21 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:25 * archels wonders if the Chinese have caught on to using 'meridian' as a euphemism for 'orgasm' 08:26 < kanzure> .ud meridian 08:26 * kanzure looks at yoleaux sternly 08:28 < archels> as in, ASMR 08:30 < seba-> https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/results/NCT00113841?term=curcumin&rank=12§=X7430156 08:30 < seba-> oh cool 08:31 < kanzure> .title 08:32 < yoleaux> kanzure: Sorry, that command (.title) took too long to process. 08:35 < seba-> kanzure, it's a piperine/curcumine trial on multiple myeloma, which is close enough 08:37 < ParahSailin> combos always work better 08:39 < ParahSailin> throw in DCA while you're at it 08:39 < ParahSailin> you can get that from hindustan 08:40 < seba-> ParahSailin, i was thinking about DCA yes, but i'm not sure it would work for this type of cancer 08:41 < ParahSailin> only one way to find out 08:44 < seba-> ParahSailin, what would you do? 08:46 < ParahSailin> get a grip of drugs and crunk her? 08:46 < seba-> lol 08:46 < seba-> ParahSailin, well she's without cancer atm 08:47 < ParahSailin> you can't sue yourself for malpractice, so you have more freedom to do the right stuff 08:47 < seba-> i know 08:47 < seba-> i think i could try curcumin/piperine for few months 08:48 < seba-> that seems rather cheap+safe+effective 08:49 < ParahSailin> why not 08:51 < seba-> i'll do that 08:51 < seba-> i just don't know if it's cheaper/better for me to extract curcumin 08:51 < seba-> or to buy it extracted 08:51 < seba-> lol 08:51 < ParahSailin> if that worked then i would expect low cancer rates in malaysia 08:53 < seba-> ParahSailin, i don't think it works for all cancers and also the doses are quite high 08:53 < seba-> ~4 g/day of curcumin 09:01 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:02 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:07 < dbolser> seba-: bio-reactor using plant stem cells? 09:07 < seba-> dbolser, for? 09:09 < seba-> oh you mean for growing curcumin 09:12 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-89-243-47-30.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:20 < seba-> shitty cancers 09:20 < seba-> why isn't there any cool cure 09:20 < kanzure> you mean poop cancer? sucks 09:20 < kanzure> well, tumors have some pretty neat cures 09:21 < kanzure> "blast a lot of high-frequency radiation at this target and then it explodes" 09:21 < seba-> DCA is cool of course 09:21 < seba-> lol 09:24 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:26 < kanzure> http://www.freelists.org/list/corkbiomakerspace 09:26 < ParahSailin> rm: cannot remove `_130812_M01612_v_AAER01.bam': No space left on device 09:28 < seba-> why aren't here 10 cancer researchers 09:28 < kanzure> "like gofmt, except for brainfuck" https://github.com/eteeselink/bffmt 09:41 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:58 -!- Jaakko911 [~Jaakko@77.98.240.65] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:58 -!- Jaakko910 [~Jaakko@cpc13-newc15-2-0-cust64.16-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:00 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:20 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:21 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:24 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:25 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:50 -!- nmz787_i [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-djcmwbaiqgmdukyd] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:51 -!- nmz787_i1 [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-engqfwkqhiiopozr] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:52 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-89-243-47-30.as13285.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:52 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-94-6.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:54 -!- nmz787_i [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-djcmwbaiqgmdukyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:19 < kanzure> https://github.com/Pacmanfan/UVDLPSlicerController 11:19 < kanzure> https://github.com/Pacmanfan/UVDLPSlicerController/blob/master/UVDLP/Software/Firmware/Sprinter-master/Sprinter/thermistortables.h 11:19 -!- ielo_ [~ielo@host-89-243-47-30.as13285.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:28 < nmz787_i1> why are those LUTs interesting? 11:28 < kanzure> .d LUT 11:28 < yoleaux> Sorry, I couldn't find a definition for 'LUT'. 11:29 < nmz787_i1> .d lookup table 11:29 < yoleaux> Sorry, I couldn't find a definition for 'lookup table'. 11:29 < nmz787_i1> .wik LUT 11:29 < yoleaux> "Lut may refer to:" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LUT 11:29 < nmz787_i1> .wik lookup table 11:29 < yoleaux> "In computer science, a lookup table is an array that replaces runtime computation with a simpler array indexing operation. The savings in terms of processing time can be significant, since retrieving a value from memory is often faster than undergoing an 'expensive' computation or input/output operation." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lookup_table 11:29 < kanzure> oh, well, i'm just not sure why it's a lookup table at all in the first place 11:31 < nmz787_i1> calibration most likely 11:32 < kanzure> alright 11:44 -!- seba- [~hel1@cpe-90-157-233-7.static.amis.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:44 -!- seba- [~hel1@unaffiliated/seba-] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:30 -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:37 -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:49 -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:52 -!- nmz787_i1 [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-engqfwkqhiiopozr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:52 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@192.55.55.41] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:53 -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:54 -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:56 -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:21 < kanzure> Workplane("front").box(1,1,1).cut(Workplane("front").center(-1, -1).circle(1).extrude(3)) 13:21 < kanzure> well that's not right.. 13:22 -!- Burnin8 [~Burn@pool-173-66-15-196.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:24 < kanzure> mvhttp://heybryan.org/shots/2014-06-25-152439-freecad-cadquery.png 13:24 < kanzure> oops 13:24 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/shots/2014-06-25-152439-freecad-cadquery.png 13:24 < dingo> well thats interesting 13:25 < dingo> thats a lot like the abaqus-cae console i programmed in long ago 13:25 < dingo> i really liked that, python console at the bottom 13:26 -!- Burninate [~Burn@pool-173-66-15-196.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:26 < kanzure> pythonocc has a repl + visualizer without all the other gui junk 13:26 < kanzure> (uses ipython in qt-loop-mode) 13:26 < dingo> oh nice 13:27 < kanzure> i was aiming for a hole through the center of the cube 13:35 -!- eridu [~eridu@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:36 < kanzure> Workplane("front").rect(1, 1).circle(0.25).extrude(1) 13:36 < kanzure> that worked (for hole through a cube) 13:37 -!- eridu [~eridu@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Client Quit] 13:44 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/cadqueryfail.0001.svg 13:45 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/cadqueryfail.0001.html 13:45 < kanzure> hm.. that did not tessellate well. 13:48 < dpk> paperbot: http://ijl.oxfordjournals.org/content/19/1/99.abstract 13:48 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1093%2Fijl%2Feci053 13:49 < kanzure> so much for delinquentme's code 13:53 < dpk> ugh, i can't even get that with my samizdat ezproxy account 13:53 < kanzure> dpk: have some more, https://raw.githubusercontent.com/kanzure/ezproxy-urls/master/urls.txt 13:54 < dpk> things i will never understand: why anyone thought that making academic papers difficult to access would be a good idea 13:54 < kanzure> because librarians sold out 13:54 < dpk> i was amused to find out the other day that papers with open access are more likely to be cited 13:55 < dpk> by a statistically significant amount 13:55 < chris_99> hehe 13:56 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@78.174.33.58] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:56 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@78.174.33.58] has quit [Changing host] 13:56 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:56 < dpk> it's a somewhat horrifying thought, though 13:57 < dpk> that what's influencing the direction in which science develops is not necessarily what is worthwhile, or well-researched, or otherwise generally good 13:57 < kanzure> oh please, the availability of grant money highly constrains research too 13:57 < dpk> but rather, whether researchers can be bothered to log into their ezproxy/efc accounts 13:57 < dpk> *etc 13:57 < dpk> well, yes 13:58 < dpk> but if you're going to pick one paper of a dozen to cite, you'd hope it'd be the best one judged by its content and not just the one that was easiest to get to 13:59 < dpk> we're spoiled anyway, of course 13:59 < kanzure> when you're blowing the paper submission deadline you usually just pack some citations in anyway 13:59 < dpk> back in ye day, people had to use paper to read their papers! 13:59 < kanzure> "oh that paper from greg's lab a few minutes ago sounded cool" 13:59 -!- moktsar [~Mookaborb@c-24-21-241-171.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:59 < dpk> hehe. yes 13:59 < kanzure> "lemme just cite that" 14:00 < dpk> the grant money problem is the bigger one, i concede 14:02 < cluckj> gradstudentbot, what do you think about open access journals 14:02 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, that's a reasonable explanation. 14:03 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@89-68-70-120.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:04 -!- cyborg_ [~cyborg@cpe-70-113-84-109.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:05 < dpk> Historical Thesaurus of English is a case-in-point: "the total cost of the Thesaurus was £1.1million in grants (when adjusted for inflation approximately £2.2m/$3.4m in 2010 equivalent), in addition to a good deal of uncosted academic time; a bargain at a little over 1p per word and around 340 words a week!" 14:05 < kanzure> it was written by grant money? 14:05 < dpk> 320,000 person-hours of work 14:06 < kanzure> $1 million bought 320k hours? 14:06 < dpk> .c 2.2 million / 320,000 14:06 < kanzure> that's not even minimum wage 14:06 < yoleaux> 2200000/320000 = 55/8 14:06 < dpk> right, most of the time they were working as volunteers 14:06 < kanzure> haha that's dumb 14:06 < kanzure> science labor is fucked up 14:06 < gradstudentbot> Are the marmosets for anyone to use? 14:06 < gradstudentbot> The thing about this particular theory is that it's excellent at predicting ethnic conflicts which have already happened. 14:07 < dpk> .py 55/8 14:07 < yoleaux> 6 14:07 < kanzure> .py 55/8.0 14:07 < yoleaux> 6.875 14:07 < dpk> ty 14:07 < dpk> £6.88 an hour on average, adjusted for inflation 14:08 < gradstudentbot> I think my e.coli culture got friendzoned. 14:08 * dpk pets gradstudentbot 14:08 < gradstudentbot> Should this be on ice? 14:09 < gradstudentbot> Just wait until the ethics review board never hears about this. 14:09 < dpk> boggles the mind that a project which received such huge plaudits, which broke massive new ground in understanding the history of language, should have been done by people earning so little. and it wasn't for want of trying to get more, either 14:10 < kanzure> most labor related to science is very poorly paid 14:10 * dpk nods 14:10 < kanzure> i've often wondered what would happen if biologists were paying themselves wages like programmers do 14:10 < kanzure> or lawyers for that matter 14:11 < dpk> but bailing out banks is more important for governments to spend money on than science 14:11 < dpk> because, really, who needs to invent the future when you've got rich people in the present 14:11 < cluckj> or like guns 14:11 < cluckj> or drug advertising 14:11 < kanzure> i'm not convinced that grants are a good idea 14:11 < dpk> why? 14:12 < kanzure> something something markt.. 14:12 < kanzure> *market 14:12 < dpk> the way they work now is fucked up, but they're not per se a bad thing 14:12 < dpk> right 14:12 < dpk> they should fund people, not projects 14:12 < cluckj> something something barriers to entry 14:12 < kanzure> so, first, the line regarding "you can't do blue sky research in the open market because you won't make any money" is bullshit 14:12 < kanzure> that just means that *you* suck at doing research 14:13 * dpk frowns 14:13 < dpk> i don't understand 14:13 < kanzure> the common argument for why science should be funded by grants is that there's no other way for people to make money doing science 14:13 < dpk> you mean that people claim that you can't start a new business just to do research because you won't make money? 14:13 < dpk> right 14:14 < gradstudentbot> The autoclave smells really good. 14:14 < dpk> why do people suck at research for saying that, then? 14:14 < dpk> it seems fairly reasonable to me 14:14 < kanzure> it doesn't seem reasonable at all! 14:15 < kanzure> you can do two things at once 14:15 < dpk> if you're inventing the future, making profit with it should not be wasting valuable braintime 14:15 < dpk> until it's actually ready to be madeprofiton 14:15 < kanzure> "making profit" is often seen as an evil activity 14:16 < dpk> i don't think it's an evil activity, but there's a time and a place for business concerns 14:16 < kanzure> where do you think the money i'm paying you comes from? 14:18 < dingo> nafarious characters! 14:19 < dpk> i wouldn't say it's impossible to do blue-sky research in an environment where making profit is going to be a concern 14:20 < dpk> but that kind of environment places constraints on what you can practically do before the money runs out and you need to start making turnover 14:20 < kanzure> hmm i wonder if this is any good http://archive.mises.org/5439/free-market-science-vs-government-science/ 14:20 -!- mokstar [~Mookaborb@unaffiliated/mokstar] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:20 < dpk> there are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches 14:20 -!- mokstar [~Mookaborb@c-24-21-241-171.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:21 < kanzure> nope that article sucks. damn. 14:21 -!- mokstar [~Mookaborb@c-24-21-241-171.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:21 -!- mokstar [~Mookaborb@unaffiliated/mokstar] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:22 < kanzure> so, it's true that large companies often have what seem to be perverse incentives to not focus on anything related to science 14:22 < kanzure> but see innovator's dilemma etc on that front 14:23 < dpk> .tw 392335781374619648 14:23 < yoleaux> An "Industry vs Research" dichotomy that I sketched at a conference. I probably should elaborate on it sometime. http://t.co/miIaLwUDAv (@worrydream) 14:23 < kanzure> how about this one, 14:23 < kanzure> http://www.cobdencentre.org/2011/01/science-by-the-free-market/ 14:24 < cluckj> eh 14:24 < cluckj> it's all institutional 14:24 < cluckj> state or industry funded 14:26 < kanzure> "Crediting the government for the invention of the internet is like crediting the Pharaohs for the modern Egyptian tourist industry. The fact that the pyramids they built enabled the private sector to detect a market opportunity in modern times does not in any way mean they should be given credit for it.[5] Moreover, in his paper Science, Technology and Government, Rothbard references a study by Jewkes et al that took 61 of the most important ... 14:26 < kanzure> ... inventions of the first half of the twentieth century and found that over half of those were achieved by individual scientists at their own expense.[6] " 14:27 < cluckj> lol 14:27 < cluckj> ugh 14:27 < kanzure> shine a light at a piece of glitter and suddenly you have a nobel prize :V 14:28 < cluckj> "individual scientists" and "their own expense" are really disingenuous phrases 14:28 < kanzure> hm? 14:29 < cluckj> the internet wasn't invented in the first half of the twentieth century either, it's a poor comparison 14:29 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, it's significant. 14:30 < kanzure> "If, however, individuals are allowed to pursue these ideas with their own resources free from government dictation exercising their entrepreneurial judgment, a system is created whereby the scientists particularly receptive to good ideas are rewarded by profits and those who fail to recognize good ideas are rooted out of the system by suffering losses. This profit and loss system is absent in government directed research, meaning that the ... 14:30 < kanzure> ... government is not punished for its failures and inefficiencies and thus may be over-allocating money to bad projects." 14:30 < cluckj> money always comes from somewhere :P 14:31 < dpk> that assumes that all value can be measured in terms of money 14:31 < kanzure> not really 14:31 < kanzure> i can do things on my own that can't be measured in money, without government grants, and still have money 14:32 < cluckj> capitalism presupposes that everything has a monetary value, especially the time you put into projects 14:32 < dpk> sure, and you can be limited to evenings and weekends while working some other job too 14:32 < dpk> and you'll proceed much slower and you'd better not have a family to look after 14:33 < kanzure> actually, no, i have all of the time in the world to myself 14:33 < cluckj> I'm interested in what the proscriptions and political motivations of the people suggesting doing away with government research are 14:33 < kanzure> i think they are just suggesting that market-based research is in fact possible 14:33 < kanzure> there is a very strong opposition to non-academic research/development 14:34 < kanzure> and yet tradesmen are able to do tradestuff outside of college just as they are able to do it inside of the ivory tower.. 14:34 < dpk> for lots of good reasons 14:34 < dpk> companies don't like to share what they've made, for one thing 14:34 < cluckj> there's a lot less distinction between non-academic r&d and academic r&d 14:34 < cluckj> currently, I mean 14:35 < kanzure> this is also interesting, 14:35 < kanzure> http://www.cato-unbound.org/2013/08/05/terence-kealey/case-against-public-science 14:35 < kanzure> it claims that there's been no incentive for anyone to consider non-government-funded science for the past 400 years 14:35 < cluckj> industry and academia are increasingly working together and drawing on each others' research programs 14:35 < cluckj> lol 14:35 < kanzure> "The fundamental problem that bedevils the study of the economics of science is that every contemporary actor in the story is parti pris: every contemporary actor who enters the field starts by pre-assuming that governments should fund science. Such actors are either industrialists looking for corporate welfare, or scholars looking to protect their universities’ income, or scientists (who, frankly, will look for money from any and every ... 14:36 < kanzure> ... source—they are shameless) or economists who assume that knowledge is “non-rivalrous” and only “partially excludable” (which are posh ways of saying that copying is cheap and easy.)" 14:36 < kanzure> "But no contemporary has ever shown empirically that governments need fund science—the assertion has been made only on theoretical grounds. Remarkably, the one economist who did look at the question empirically found that the evidence showed that governments need not fund science, but his claim has been for a long time ignored, because he was notoriously a libertarian—and libertarians have no traction amongst the scholars, politicians, ... 14:36 < kanzure> ... and corporate welfarists who dominate the field. In 1776, moreover, that economist supported a revolution, so he is not only outdated but he was, presumably, subversive of the social order." 14:36 < cluckj> the cato institute is a kind of gross conservative think tank 14:36 < cluckj> I wonder who's funding their research :P 14:37 < kanzure> good to know their bias 14:37 < cluckj> yes it is 14:37 < kanzure> but i believe the point regarding "not much investigation of the actual necessity of only using government grants" is strongly biased because of their conservativism or ick 14:37 < kanzure> *is not strongly biased 14:38 < cluckj> I agree completely that only using government grants to fund science is a bad idea 14:38 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:38 < cluckj> but the political outcome of what they are saying is to get rid of them entirely 14:38 < cluckj> and gut the NSF/NIH 14:38 < dpk> marginally related and looks interesting: https://otherlab.com/blog/post/otherlab-was-in-nature-magazine-this-week 14:39 < cluckj> the more diversity in funding sources, the better 14:39 < dpk> cluckj: ++ 14:39 < kanzure> this one is weird, 14:39 < kanzure> "And the fault in the model lies in one of its fundamental premises, namely that copying other people’s research is cheap and easy. It’s not. Consider industrial technology. When Edwin Mansfield of the University of Pennsylvania examined 48 products that, during the 1970s, had been copied by companies in the chemicals, drugs, electronics, and machinery industries in New England, he found that the costs of copying were on average 65 per ... 14:39 < cluckj> thx 14:39 < kanzure> ... cent of the costs of original invention. And the time taken to copy was, on average, 70 per cent of the time taken by the original invention." 14:39 < kanzure> "more diversity for the sake of diversity" is bullshit 14:40 < cluckj> it's not just for the sake of diversity though 14:40 < chris_99> mmm 14:40 -!- heath [~ybit@131.252.130.248] has quit [Changing host] 14:40 -!- heath [~ybit@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:40 < cluckj> it's to allow different kinds of research programs with different requirements and outcomes to flourish 14:40 < chris_99> it encourages a more balanced research environment 14:40 < cluckj> ^ 14:40 < cluckj> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 14:41 < kanzure> "So in 1971, when Harry Collins studied the spread of a technology called the TEA laser, he discovered that the only scientists who succeeded in copying it were those who had visited laboratories where TEA lasers were already up and running: “no-one to whom I have spoken has succeeded in building a TEA laser using written sources (including blueprints and written reports) as the sole source of information.”" 14:41 < dpk> ^^^^^ 14:41 < kanzure> you all suck. what the fuck does "balanced" mean. 14:41 < kanzure> "take some of the old shitty ideas, and some of the new ideas, and just hope that something works eventually" 14:41 < chris_99> so you're saying you don't want academic funding at all 14:41 < cluckj> harry collins is a nice guy 14:42 < kanzure> chris_99: i am saying that i doubt that government funding is necessary 14:42 < kanzure> .tell fenn "So in 1971, when Harry Collins studied the spread of a technology called the TEA laser, he discovered that the only scientists who succeeded in copying it were those who had visited laboratories where TEA lasers were already up and running: “no-one to whom I have spoken has succeeded in building a TEA laser using written sources (including blueprints and written reports) as the sole source of information.” 14:42 < yoleaux> kanzure: I'll pass your message to fenn. 14:42 < cluckj> in that peice he wrote about the laser, he was talking about tacit knowledge 14:42 < superkuh> Lots of people have succeeded in making TEA lasers using only written information and pictures on the 4hv.org forum. I am one of them. 14:42 < cluckj> piece -_- 14:42 < superkuh> They are certainly tricky though. 14:42 < kanzure> .tell fenn nevermind 14:42 < yoleaux> kanzure: I'll pass your message to fenn. 14:43 < chris_99> i can't see why you can't have gov. funding and private funding 14:43 < kanzure> what do you mean? 14:43 < cluckj> you should have both kinds of funding 14:44 < kanzure> again my argument was "i doubt that government funding is necessary", not "fuck everyone who gets a grant" 14:44 < cluckj> recently those have been creeping together in a dubious way 14:44 < dpk> i don't see where cluckj cast your argument as being at all to do with fucking everyone who gets a grant 14:45 < cluckj> kanzure, it's not necessary like "NO SCIENCE WILL EVER GET DONE EVER AGAIN" 14:45 < cluckj> it's necessary like "some projects need to not be driven by industry interests" 14:45 < cluckj> it's not necessary for science to function, it's necessary for science to have a diverse set of interests 14:46 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:46 < cluckj> if you get rid of the NSF/NIH/DOE/etc, you end up with the main source government funding coming from DARPA 14:46 < gradstudentbot> Hah, look at figure 6. That's definitely a little weird. 14:46 < cluckj> which is its own kind of creepiness 14:47 < kanzure> so say i own a company, that has industry interests 14:47 < kanzure> and i'm also working on particle acceleration unrelated to my industry 14:47 < kanzure> why do i have to stop working on particle acceleration? 14:48 < cluckj> huh? 14:48 < cluckj> I don't know, why would you? 14:49 < kanzure> because diversity or something, according to you 14:49 < kanzure> i have to admit i don't understand why government is the only method of interest isolation 14:49 < kanzure> or is a relevant mechanism 14:50 < cluckj> government funding has interests 14:51 < cluckj> the NIH provides funding for projects in the interest of public health, DARPA for military interests, etc. 14:52 < cluckj> removing government funding from science would reduce or eliminate those interests 14:52 < kanzure> haha, because public health biology suddenly becomes irrelevant? 14:53 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:53 < cluckj> it suddenly becomes an issue of "what about public health can make a profit" rather than "what about public health can make the public healthy" 14:54 < kanzure> yeah that usda food pyramiad is totally working out for you 14:54 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:55 < kanzure> hah i didn't mean to say that so strongly 14:55 < cluckj> it's a plate now :) 14:55 < kanzure> but it works because of your insulin problems 14:55 < cluckj> haha 14:55 < kanzure> it's a plate? 14:55 < kanzure> *pyramid 14:56 < cluckj> the food pyramid is a hilarious example of interests clashing 14:56 < cluckj> coming up with dietary recommendations is super contentious between public health and private industry concerns 14:57 < kanzure> a very particular part of private industry concerns 14:58 < kanzure> it's the same fallacy about "monsanto is evil, therefore all genetic engineering is evil" 14:58 < cluckj> no 14:59 < kanzure> "these private interests suck, so therefore all possible private interests also suck" 14:59 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:59 < cluckj> it's closer to "saturated fats are bad for you............but the meat and dairy lobby wants you to eat more meat and dairy" 15:01 < cluckj> "because monsanto sucks, I don't trust them to tell me what is safe" 15:02 < cluckj> I don't want to destroy private industry (today, anyway), I want to make sure that there are other interests represented besides the capitalist oligarchy 15:02 * cluckj is sent to gitmo 15:06 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09 < heath> this doesn't look right: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-y-MGS18jwvE/U6tFmIaSx6I/AAAAAAAAEzQ/4sGOukXThQY/w734-h979-no/IMG_20140625_165621.jpg 15:10 < heath> anyone have experience with ferrules and stops? 15:10 < heath> guess i'll ask at the local hackerspace 15:12 < chris_99> ferrules on pipes? 15:13 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-89-243-47-30.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:13 -!- ielo_ [~ielo@host-89-243-47-30.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:15 < heath> chris_99: on steel cable 15:16 < chris_99> oh 15:23 < dingo> kanzure: do you consider the @trace decorator a crock of shit? have you ever found it useful? 15:29 < kanzure> i used the trace log output exactly once 15:29 < ParahSailin> kanzure: python needs a decent nurbs library? 15:29 < kanzure> the *implementation* of @trace was highly suspicious (third party) 15:29 < kanzure> ParahSailin: hell yes 15:29 < kanzure> ParahSailin: in particular, nurbs intersection stuff 15:30 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@192.55.55.41] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:30 < ParahSailin> right 15:30 < kanzure> just a class with knots/control points is not useful- there's a bunch of those wandering around the web already 15:31 < kanzure> dingo: tbh i never used @trace because i already knew where things were coming from. for someone investigating in the opposite direction ("what the fuck is this component doing?") it's probably helpful. 15:31 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.139.70] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:31 < kanzure> i mean, i used @trace, but i didn't look at the logs 15:32 < dingo> m. I just had an issue where the actual error was: TypeError: execute() takes exactly 4 arguments (3 given) 15:32 < dingo> but @trace, internally, did: KeyError: 'model' 15:32 < dingo> so the original error was lost! 15:32 < dingo> very counter-productive 15:32 < kanzure> i remember getting a few KeyError: 'model' 15:33 < kanzure> especially when i wrote collectors. but other times too. 15:33 < dingo> thats right where its at, yup 15:33 < kanzure> high five 15:34 < dingo> sorry to remind you, hehe 15:34 < dingo> i just don't think it'll ever be useful 15:34 < kanzure> that base class should be rewritten 15:34 < dingo> i think its counter-productive, a developer says, i don't need to debug log any logic decisions or data manipulations 15:34 < dingo> i could always use the tracelog 15:35 < ParahSailin> kanzure: what came out of the summer of code on the brlcad nurbs? 15:35 < ParahSailin> or am i remembering something slightly wrong 15:36 < kanzure> ParahSailin: http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Phoenix/GSoc2012/Reports 15:36 < kanzure> ParahSailin: http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Phoenix/GSoc2013/Reports 15:36 < kanzure> this summer they are working on my https://github.com/kanzure/python-brlcad 15:36 < kanzure> but their nurbs stuff is c++ and ctypes doesn't cover it.... argh. 15:37 < ParahSailin> so their nurbs stuff works 15:37 < kanzure> i would have to do opennurbs + swig or something (half their nurbs stuff is opennurbs. the rest is User:Phoenix's work) 15:38 < kanzure> rhino stripped intersections/booleans from opennurbs because "omg sekr1t proprietary knowledges gais" 15:38 < dingo> oh that "check if it can make c compilers" thing i mentioned over the weekend, this is what i came up with, kanzure, https://github.com/jquast/x84/blob/master/setup.py#L86 15:38 < ParahSailin> im looking at the brl-cad repo, is there some leet nurbs math that is not part of opennurbs? 15:39 < dingo> as you recommended, i use pkg-config :-) 15:39 < kanzure> ParahSailin: yes 15:39 < kanzure> dingo: i'm 100% sure you knew about pkg-config before that 15:39 < dingo> no i just was hoping the distutils* world had some solution 15:39 < kanzure> hah 15:39 < dingo> the best i found was "Here is the name of the compiler for unix: cc" 15:39 < dingo> also "where is Python.h" 15:40 < kanzure> get_maybe_requires looks good to me 15:41 < kanzure> i thought distutils was merged back into setuptools upstream 15:41 < kanzure> actually, i don't want to open that can of worms 15:42 < kanzure> ParahSailin: i'm sure there's a few degenerate cases that brlcad doesn't work for 15:43 < kanzure> ParahSailin: today i have been playing with cadquery inside freecad. works pretty well. their pythonocc branch isn't implemented. if brlcad had c functions for its nurbs and breps, i would use python-brlcad as the engine behind cadquery. 15:43 < kanzure> in terms of usability, cadquery + freecad is probably fine for anyone that cares about getting something that works (and i'm only obsessed because i know i don't want to maintain opencascade) 15:45 < kanzure> damn, harbor freight is open until 9pm? what a deal 16:01 < heath> any rubyists looking for work? 16:04 < heath> pm or email me if you are (heathmatlock@gmail.com) 16:09 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-22-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:10 < kanzure> heath: depends on how much you're willing to pay :) 16:20 < ParahSailin> how is brl-cad under gpl, i thought government stuff had to be public domain 16:21 < ParahSailin> sorry, lgpl 16:21 < kanzure> btw there's also #brlcad (someone seems to be around at the moment) 16:28 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:36 -!- joepie91__ [5064fe45@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.100.254.69] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:38 -!- joepie91_ [5064fe45@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.100.254.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:41 < kanzure> i didn't mean "stop talking" 16:41 < kanzure> just that they know that answer 16:41 < kanzure> also, raj12lnm is the gsoc student working on python-brlcad 16:54 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:56 < nmz787_i> dingo: ParahSailin kanzure you might be interested in the faulthandler package on pypi... was getting another segfault this morning with no error trace being printed... pip install and 2 lines of code later I had the segfault info needed to correct the problem 16:56 < nmz787_i> I haven't tried it for the segfault I was getting last week yet though 16:56 < dingo> segfaults! 16:57 < nmz787_i> ParahSailin: tried using cygwin and strace, but unfortunately their python was compiled with too old a version of MSVC for the pywin32 module to work with 16:57 < nmz787_i> dingo: yeah subprocess.communicate (or .wait) was segfaulting on me, when it tried to join the stdout listener thread it created 16:58 < nmz787_i> friggin weird and I didn't get anywhere with the error tracing, but I'd like to give it a shot with faulthandler imported and see if I get any new info 16:58 < kanzure> couldn't you just use db or something to do stacktrace investigation stuff 16:58 < kanzure> *gdb 16:58 < dingo> so long as the stack doesn't get smashed :) 17:02 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-22-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11 < kanzure> i fought the stack and the stack won 17:15 -!- catern [~catern@catern.com] has quit [Quit: Quitting...] 17:16 -!- catern_ [~catern@catern.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:18 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:19 -!- catern_ is now known as catern 17:22 -!- catern is now known as catern_ 17:23 -!- catern_ is now known as catern 17:28 < kanzure> ParahSailin: maybe i should just convert brlcad's intersection stuff into python 17:28 < kanzure> although every time i start thinking about that, i wonder why not just do that for opencascade, since theirs is more thorough 17:28 < kanzure> and more battle tested 17:30 < ParahSailin> opencascade has intersection? 17:30 < kanzure> opencascade has everything http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cad/opencascade 17:30 < kanzure> 400 man-years etc etc 17:30 < kanzure> start here http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cad/opencascade/#packages 17:31 < ParahSailin> holy shit 17:31 < kanzure> yeah i've been trying to sort through this mess 17:34 < gnusha_> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=39817882 Bryan Bishop: another abbreviation (GL -> graphics library) >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/cad/opencascade/ 17:36 < gnusha_> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=c2b3d8de Bryan Bishop: these people really like abbreviating >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/cad/opencascade/ 17:36 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-76-167-105-53.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:38 < kanzure> freecad exposes a small chunk of it into a solidworks-like gui 17:39 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:47 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:47 < ParahSailin> maybe the best way to do it is just figure out c++ name mangling enough to link python bindings to that 17:48 < kanzure> pythonocc is a set of python bindings to opencascade using swig 17:48 < kanzure> works fine 17:48 < kanzure> the problem is that i don't want to maintain opencascade.. it's a disaster. 17:52 < ParahSailin> heh, thorough and battle test; disaster -- make up your mind 17:53 < kanzure> i reserve the right to be a walking set of contradictions 17:53 < kanzure> dissonance is a lovely drug 17:54 < kanzure> go take a look at the source code... it is not good. 17:56 < ParahSailin> no i looked 17:57 < ParahSailin> that was the "holy shit" 18:06 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:13 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.139.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:39 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@89-68-70-120.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:49 < kanzure> ParahSailin: why the sudden interest? 19:04 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:09 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16 < ParahSailin> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-94-007-7250-2_2 19:16 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/c313fca66e0539b740a301b5070ac1.txt 19:16 < ParahSailin> i gotta pad my github some 19:23 < kanzure> have you considered faking your commits? 19:23 < catern> just fork a bunch of projects 19:24 < catern> that always works to trick the recruiters 19:24 < kanzure> that wont update your contribution calendar 19:24 < kanzure> and you want to avoid recruiters 19:26 -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:27 -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:27 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-22-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:31 -!- augur_ [~augur@c-69-250-22-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:31 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-22-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:48 -!- Jaakko911 [~Jaakko@77.98.240.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:49 -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:51 -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:56 -!- augur_ [~augur@c-69-250-22-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05 < ParahSailin> kanzure: so what's wrong with pythonocc? 20:06 < ParahSailin> you're either going to be maintaining bindings for opencascade or something of similar mass 20:08 < kanzure> bugfixing opencascade is very hard :( 20:08 < kanzure> "oops, this sphere can't intersect a vertex at this point. good luck fixing the engine." 20:09 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-22-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:09 < kanzure> meanwhile you're looking at code like Handle(aMPBLPB) = aMPBLI.start() - PrsTMgrAlgo.ope(); 20:10 < ParahSailin> wow, thats like BLAS levels of obscure identifiers 20:10 < kanzure> meanwhile, the brlcad code is sligtly less mysterious... 20:11 -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-22-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11 < kanzure> https://github.com/tpaviot/oce/blob/master/src/BOPAlgo/BOPAlgo_PaveFiller_5.cxx#L513 20:11 < kanzure> i love all the blank comments 20:12 < dingo> oh yeah that helps so much ... 20:12 < dingo> what the hell is that good for 20:12 < dingo> line 207 reads // 3 20:12 < kanzure> hahaha 20:12 < ParahSailin> / this line intentionally left blank 20:12 < kanzure> so, maybe when they made this code open source 20:13 < kanzure> they stripped out all the comments 20:13 < kanzure> because they were afraid of the hack0rz 20:13 < dingo> line 144 reads // ----------f 20:13 < kanzure> aEF.SetIndices(nE, nF); 20:13 < dingo> hehehe 20:14 < kanzure> bV[j]=CheckFacePaves(nV[j], aMIFOn, aMIFIn); 20:14 < dingo> whats the matter, can't you read code 20:14 < dingo> its obvious 20:14 < kanzure> i should add E and F to the abbreviation list (edge and face, i think) 20:14 < kanzure> they overload I for integer, interference, intersection, intolerant 20:15 < dingo> incapable 20:15 < dingo> incomprehensible 20:15 < kanzure> oh, i already had F documented 20:15 < kanzure> in http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cad/opencascade/ 20:15 < kanzure> and E... go me. 20:16 < ParahSailin> kanzure: what exactly are all these different directories https://github.com/tpaviot/oce/tree/master/src 20:16 < kanzure> those are the different packages that i've documented here, http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cad/opencascade/#packages 20:17 < kanzure> the system is made up of "modules" or "libraries" or "packages" 20:17 < ParahSailin> are all the packages important? 20:17 < kanzure> not sure. i think most of them are used in the default build. 20:17 < kanzure> some of them are probably ancient and unused. 20:18 < ParahSailin> the use case is to improve something like cadquery? 20:18 < kanzure> so, cadquery is actually using opencascade (through freecad) 20:18 < kanzure> (because freecad is just a gui on top of opencascade) 20:18 -!- petraya [~asakharov@24.60.79.55] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:19 < kanzure> so yes 20:19 < ParahSailin> so theoretically all the nurbs intersection stuff is accessible in cadquery as it is now? 20:19 < kanzure> yes definitely 20:20 < kanzure> part = Workplane("front").circle(1).rect(1,1).cut(tool) 20:20 < kanzure> works fine 20:21 < kanzure> 1) sudo apt-get install freecad 2) pip-2.7 install cadquery 3) in freecad type "import cadquery" then "part = Workplane('front').rect(1,1); Part.show(part.val().wrapped)" 20:22 < kanzure> oh you might have to click 'part designer' somewhere before step 3 inside freecad 20:23 < ParahSailin> youd like to improve that in some way? 20:24 < kanzure> skip freecad 20:25 < gradstudentbot> Just wait until the ethics review board never hears about this. 20:25 < kanzure> skip opencascade 20:26 < ParahSailin> so it would be preferable to have a smaller set of features so that the install is easier? 20:26 < ParahSailin> http://www.iflscience.com/technology/automatic-sperm-extractor-introduced-chinese-hospital 20:27 < kanzure> it's not because of the install 20:27 < kanzure> it's because when opencascade breaks, how am i going to fix that 20:28 < kanzure> and how am i going to improve that? :( 20:28 < ParahSailin> that seems odd that occ is not included in the pythonocc dist 20:28 < kanzure> pythonocc is just swig stuff 20:29 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:29 < kanzure> there was a bug in the opencascade tracker the other day.. something about ellipsoids not boolean cutting correctly haha. 20:29 < ParahSailin> hm, i was thinking swig stuff had to be built alongside the c++ stuff, but i guess gcc will link that stuff when you build it separately 20:29 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29 < kanzure> you have to tell it where the source code is 20:30 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:31 < ParahSailin> so you install freecad with package manager, which includes shared libs for occ; then you compile swig bindings to occ with hopefully the same version of the source? 20:31 < kanzure> freecad doesn't use pythonocc, and pythonocc doesn't use freecad 20:31 < kanzure> pythonocc just uses opencascade source code directly 20:32 < kanzure> opencascade "community edition" source code https://github.com/tpaviot/oce 20:32 < kanzure> pythonocc https://github.com/tpaviot/pythonocc 20:32 < ParahSailin> you install oce through apt-get though? 20:32 < kanzure> nope 20:33 < ParahSailin> does freecad depend on oce? 20:33 < kanzure> dunno, good question. it probably uses opencascade upstream (not the community edition). haven't checked. 20:33 < kanzure> actually, it looks like debian has some liboce packages. not sure what these are. 20:33 < kanzure> liboce-modeling8 - OpenCASCADE Community Edition CAE platform shared library 20:33 < kanzure> liboce-modeling-dev - OpenCASCADE Community Edition CAE platform library development files 20:33 < kanzure> liboce-foundation8 - OpenCASCADE Community Edition CAE platform shared library 20:34 < kanzure> liboce-foundation-dev - OpenCASCADE Community Edition CAE platform library development files 20:34 < ParahSailin> does swig perhaps just deal with the header files that are installed along wiht liboce-modeling-dev or whatever? 20:35 < ParahSailin> or does pythonocc package the entire source tree of oce and do code transformations to make c bindings 20:35 < kanzure> pythonocc asks you to install oce source code separately 20:35 < kanzure> https://github.com/tpaviot/pythonocc/blob/master/INSTALL 20:37 < ParahSailin> so, you are actually loading oce libraries twice in that workflow: once when you run freecad, then again in the python interpreter when you import cadquery 20:38 < kanzure> i think the answer is no 20:38 < kanzure> freecad has an integrated python interpreter 20:38 < kanzure> cadquery runs an "import freecad" 20:38 < kanzure> and that's probably just replaced with a global ref when you're in the freecad gui 20:38 < ParahSailin> ah ok 20:39 < ParahSailin> but does cadquery import pythonocc at any point? 20:39 < kanzure> no 20:40 < kanzure> there's a branch where it's a plugin but it's not implemented (it's just a copy of their freecad version, with s/freecad/pythonoc/) 20:40 < kanzure> *pythonocc 20:40 < kanzure> (which doesn't work because they are not api interchangeable) 20:42 < ParahSailin> im not sure why you would want pythonocc in the freecad interpreter then 20:42 < kanzure> you don't 20:43 < ParahSailin> oh, a branch where theres no freecad, just pythonocc 20:43 < kanzure> i think he wanted cadquery to have multiple possible backends 20:43 < kanzure> for example, python-brlcad would be another one, if it had compatible api concepts 20:47 < ParahSailin> ok, so hes talking about pythonocc because he doesnt expose much of oce in freecad 20:47 -!- Darius [~quassel@108-203-14-66.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:48 < kanzure> who=he? there's multiple different people here 20:50 < ParahSailin> http://www.freecadweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=PythonOCC 20:51 -!- Jaakko911 [~Jaakko@cpc13-newc15-2-0-cust64.16-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:51 < kanzure> yeah, i would guess that freecad doesn't do swig-style binding 20:52 < kanzure> they probably just call opencascade functions directly since it's C++ or something 20:52 < ParahSailin> yeah im looking for their bindings 20:53 < kanzure> i would guess none 20:53 < kanzure> #include 20:57 -!- Jaakko912 [~Jaakko@cpc13-newc15-2-0-cust64.16-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:57 < kanzure> https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD_sf_master/blob/e8cb83a48b18769c086b80cd92a5b2b859337081/src/Mod/Part/App/FeaturePartBoolean.cpp 20:57 < kanzure> #include 20:57 < kanzure> yep.. 20:58 -!- Jaakko911 [~Jaakko@cpc13-newc15-2-0-cust64.16-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:00 < ParahSailin> https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD_sf_master/blob/4b49178920e25e9b5692df97aa0201f415baf977/src/App/ApplicationPy.cpp 21:01 < kanzure> what about it 21:03 < ParahSailin> thats the extent of the python bindings it seems like 21:04 < kanzure> not sure where "Part" comes from 21:05 < ParahSailin> hm nevermind, it looks like anything *Py.cpp has python bindings 21:05 < kanzure> https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD_sf_master/blob/b1451181eac1c388fa89d4b8956f8dc35960e387/src/CXX/Python2/IndirectPythonInterface.cxx 21:06 < gradstudentbot> That's not really surprising since they did it ex vivo. 21:06 < ParahSailin> odd build system: https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD_sf_master/blob/9d1a6d25ada1a3242a2dc953dbcadaa4b398d377/src/Mod/Points/App/PointsPyImp.cpp 21:06 < ParahSailin> // inclusion of the generated files (generated out of PointsPy.xml); #include "PointsPy.cpp" 21:07 < ParahSailin> somehow that xml file is processed into a .h and a .cpp 21:07 < kanzure> yeah i'm sure he doesn't want to manually write all of the stuff 21:08 < kanzure> https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD_sf_master/blob/b1451181eac1c388fa89d4b8956f8dc35960e387/src/Mod/Part/App/Part2DObjectPy.xml 21:08 < kanzure> whatever. 21:08 < kanzure> not worth looking too deep 21:08 < kanzure> ultimately it's just opencascade under the hood 21:11 < ParahSailin> https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD_sf_master/blob/b1451181eac1c388fa89d4b8956f8dc35960e387/src/Tools/generate.py 21:11 < ParahSailin> quite creative 21:11 < kanzure> inconsistent spacing 21:12 < kanzure> my diagnosis is indignant schizophrenia 21:12 < kanzure> have him committed 21:15 < ParahSailin> well here is where the FreeCAD module is made visible to the py interpreter 21:15 < ParahSailin> https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD_sf_master/blob/0bcd95416aaac6202fe0c07fbd9c77768d29feea/src/App/Application.cpp#L183 21:38 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-76-167-105-53.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:38 -!- dingo [dingo@1984.ws] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:39 -!- sapiosexual [~sapiosexu@d75-156-91-180.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:46 < kanzure> /win 5 21:46 < kanzure> dkjfldajflkada failure 22:04 -!- dingo [dingo@1984.ws] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:05 < genehacker> dammit someone just needs to fix opencascade 22:05 < genehacker> or write an opensource cad kernel that doesn't suck 22:06 < genehacker> or make Stallman president of spatial or parasolid 22:07 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:07 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:14 < nmz787> ParahSailin: http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Sustainable_Phosphorus_Management.pdf 22:15 < ParahSailin> libgen had this actually 22:15 < ParahSailin> thanks anyway 22:15 < nmz787> ah 22:15 < nmz787> the whole book? 22:17 < ParahSailin> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1007%2F978-94-007-7250-2 22:18 < ParahSailin> there is an insane russian hard at work somewhere 22:18 < nmz787> i don't really want to download it from that likely slow connection to find out 22:18 < ParahSailin> well its 322 pg pdf 22:18 < ParahSailin> so yeah its the whole thing 22:19 < nmz787> cool 22:19 < genehacker> thank goodness for insane russians 22:21 < gradstudentbot> My study reveals that people are awesome at memorizing insecure passwords. 22:26 -!- augur [~augur@pool-71-178-129-150.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:32 -!- Darius [~quassel@108-203-14-66.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:36 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:37 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:40 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54 -!- maaku [~quassel@50-0-36-179.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 22:55 -!- maaku [~quassel@50-0-36-179.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:55 -!- maaku is now known as Guest39326 22:55 -!- augur_ [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:59 -!- augur [~augur@pool-71-178-129-150.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:25 -!- ||0_-_0|| [uid34064@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cgcnoxwsbbegrglk] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:26 < ||0_-_0||> paperbot http://www.nature.com/ni/journal/v14/n10/abs/ni.2703.html 23:26 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fni.2703 23:26 < ||0_-_0||> and paperbot http://www.nature.com/ni/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/ni.2913.html 23:30 < ||0_-_0||> paperbot http://www.nature.com/ni/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/ni.2913.html 23:30 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fni.2913 23:31 -!- Burnin8 [~Burn@pool-173-66-15-196.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:35 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@78.174.33.58] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:35 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@78.174.33.58] has quit [Changing host] 23:35 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:47 -!- Burninate [~Burn@pool-173-66-15-196.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:47 -!- ielo_ [~ielo@host-89-243-47-30.as13285.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:48 -!- ielo [~ielo@host-89-243-47-30.as13285.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:49 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59 -!- Jaakko913 [~Jaakko@cpc13-newc15-2-0-cust64.16-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Thu Jun 26 00:00:40 2014