--- Log opened Thu Jun 26 00:00:40 2014
--- Day changed Thu Jun 26 2014
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01:09 < nmz787>  to whoever mentioned my requirements was missing youtube-dl... I added it, along with some improvements https://github.com/nmz787/youtube-audio-flask/
01:11 < nmz787> also found out tonight that the youtube API V2 is deprecated, and the V3 API requires a dev key... guess I have a lil less than a year til they shut off V2 API
01:11 < nmz787> I think I could probably just scrape the youtube search results though, if I don't want it to rely on a dev key
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04:55 < chris_99> kanzure, this may interest you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wobulation i think you where talking about LCD projectors and the dead area between pixels a while ago
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06:01 < kanzure> .wik wobulation
06:01 < yoleaux> "Wobulation is a term which refers to the known variation (or wobble) in a characteristic. For example, the term is used to describe advanced radar waveform modulations – where the repetition rate or centre frequency of a signal is changed in a repetitive fashion to reduce the probability of detection." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wobulation
06:01 < chris_99> it seems to be used in DLP projectors
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06:27 < eudoxia> today i had a dream that i shouldn't write compilers in C++
06:27 < eudoxia> lisa simpson told me to use haskell
06:28 < kanzure> she was right to do that
06:29 < eudoxia> my subconscious evidently is no stickler for subtletly
06:29 < eudoxia> then we flew through the pages of LYAH and i woke up
06:35 < kanzure> all of my dreams are basically this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdj6deraQ6k
06:38 < eudoxia> i would have expected something more like a requiem for homo sapiens with anders sandberg as hanuman li tosh
06:38 < kanzure> not bald enough
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06:55 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13Ra0Kt8orY
06:55 < yoleaux> EXIT TRANCE - Track 01 - only my railgun
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07:11 < ParahSailin> kanzure: so its not normally expected that one find the exact curve of intersection between two surfaces?
07:11 < ParahSailin> one is allowed to just fudge it by subdividing surfaces into polygons and come up with a curve thats pretty close?
07:12 < kanzure> people certainly do subdivision, but i'm not sure if it's necessary
07:13 < kanzure> it's certainly easier
07:13 < kanzure> not sure if it should be allowed
07:13 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/cad/
07:13 < kanzure> this one has source code available too,
07:13 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/cad/ESOLID%20-%20a%20system%20for%20exact%20boundary%20evaluation%20-%202004.pdf
07:13 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/esolid/
07:13 < ParahSailin> opennurbs_ext does what i described
07:14 < kanzure> tessellation is probably just because they have to do raytracing
07:15 < kanzure> the other stuff is in librt/primitives/brep/ or librt/primitives/nurbs/ somewhere
07:15 < ParahSailin> nah, in the gsoc page he says all the magic is in opennurbs_ext
07:15 < kanzure> well that's sad
07:15 < kanzure> i don't think that subdivision approximation is valid
07:16 < kanzure> you might as well just do polyhedral approximation boolean stuff
07:16 < ParahSailin> / Here we use polyline approximation. // TODO: Find a better fitting algorithm unless this is good enough.
07:16 < ParahSailin> now i wonder if opencascade does it exact
07:17 < kanzure> i would start looking around here, https://github.com/tpaviot/oce/tree/master/src/BOPAlgo
07:19 < kanzure> also.. see utah_brep_intersect in https://github.com/kanzure/brlcad/blob/master/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp
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07:23 < ParahSailin> is it even possible to define a new nurb surface given a nurb surface and a parametric curve on that surface?
07:24 < kanzure> dunno :/
07:24 < kanzure> translating my nurbs into a triangulated mesh doesn't sound right to me
07:25 < ParahSailin> i dont think it is possible to generate an exact new nurbs surface like that in the general case
07:25 < ParahSailin> because you would totally be messing up the rectangular grid of control vertices
07:27 < ParahSailin> i mean, just imagine intersection of a plane that bisects the surface diagonally relative to its vertex grid
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07:29 < ParahSailin> you cant just say, oh my 2d array of control vertices is now sparse, but everything else is the same as the old one, just we deleted a whole bunch of vertices in the corner
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07:42 < kanzure> oh :/
07:42 < ParahSailin> i think its called a t-spline if you do that
07:44 < kanzure> so once you do a boolean operation in brlcad,
07:44 < kanzure> your nurbs are no longer nurbs?
07:45 < ParahSailin> im sure its still nurbs, but its not a surface that is locally identical to either of the parents
07:45 < ParahSailin> its a best-fit nurbs i think
07:48 < kanzure> so i thought they use the intersection curve to trim the previous two nurbs
07:52 < kanzure> by "they" i mean "in general"
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07:54 < ParahSailin> new vertex rows would have to be created along the intersection curve, and im not sure if its possible to always make those new rows fit into your old grid
07:56 < ParahSailin> hm, wait, maybe when these guys say nurbs they really mean a nurbs surface trimmed by curve
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08:02 < kanzure> esolid has so far been the simplest implementation (other than brlcad's?) with source code available
08:05 < kanzure> and also has papers associated with it, which is more than i can say about brlcad, opencascade, etc
08:05 < kanzure> *more than i can say about the boolean algorithms in brlcad, opencascade, etc
08:13 < kanzure> oh yeah, esolid had brlcad integration at one point. i don't remember getting it to work though.
08:17 < ParahSailin> i cant find esolid?
08:18 < ParahSailin> nm on your github
08:18 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/cad/ESOLID%20-%20a%20system%20for%20exact%20boundary%20evaluation%20-%202004.pdf
08:18 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/esolid/
08:18 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/esolid
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08:24 < kanzure> "Solids in ESOLID are represented as B-reps broken up into trimmed parametric patches. Each patch is described by a surface with both a parametric and implicit form. The trimming curves are described in the same way as intersection curves between two patches, since this is how trimming curves in the output of a Boolean operation are formed."
08:24 < kanzure> "The intersections of such surfaces are stored as algebraic plane curves in the parametric patch domain. Note that these intersection curves are typically not parameterizable. For example, representing the intersection of the patches by a rational parametric curve with rational coefficients (such as a B-spline) could not be done without introducing some error. So, intersection curves (and trimming curves) are stored in implicit form with ...
08:24 < kanzure> ... endpoints."
08:27 < ParahSailin> you sure this esolid repo has nurbs intersection?
08:29  * archels is more interested in smooth joining of NURBS
08:30 < archels> PhD students. we need more of them
08:31 < kanzure> ParahSailin: http://research.cs.tamu.edu/keyser/geom/esolid/examples.htm
08:32 < kanzure> iirc it's the ::intersection() member methods
08:32 < ParahSailin> i could do those examples on paper; do they have one with the teapots?
08:33 < kanzure> or "boolean" https://github.com/kanzure/esolid/blob/master/src/ksolid.cc#L961
08:33 < kanzure> i was considering a cython wrapper of esolid http://diyhpl.us/cgit/lolcad/tree/esolid/wrapper/wrapper.pyx
08:36 < ParahSailin> hm ok i believe they have it
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08:37 < kanzure> archels: i'm sure opencascade has that, btw
08:38 < kanzure> archels: like in their sewing stuff, https://github.com/tpaviot/oce/blob/master/src/BRepBuilderAPI/BRepBuilderAPI_Sewing.cxx
08:40 < ParahSailin> kanzure: so why did you stop considering the cython wrapper?
08:41 < kanzure> i don't remember.
08:41 < kanzure> i had just stopped working on esolid.py (because i realized i hadn't been writing unit tests, and that none of it probably worked), so i was probably feeling a little down about that
08:41 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/lolcad/tree/esolid/esolid.py
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09:56 < seba-> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Cases_per_day..jpg/800px-Cases_per_day..jpg
09:56 < seba-> ebola
09:56 < eudoxia> i'm glad i live in a place where even the crises are boring
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10:33 < kanzure> freecad crashed while extruding a circle -_-
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10:34 < kanzure> *** Abort *** an exception was raised, but no catch was found. ... The exception is:SIGSEGV 'segmentation violation' detected. Address 0
10:38 < eudoxia> you should rewrite everything in rust
10:41 < kanzure> just as soon as i finish reading their million lines of code
10:41 < kanzure> then i'll move on to the second million
10:52 < dingo> circles are hard
10:52 < dingo> thats a NPE
10:53 < dingo> somebody forgot to check a null value before access
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10:55 < kanzure> this is a box with a cylindrical through-hole: part1 = Workplane("front").rect(1,1).circle(0.25).extrude(1)
10:55 < kanzure> this is the same box but it does not have a cylindrical through-hole: part1 = Workplane("front").rect(1,1).circle(0.5).extrude(1)
10:55 < kanzure> why?
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12:20 < kanzure_> extruding a circle should not be buggy like that, argh
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13:15 < kanzure_> .wik coelacanth
13:15 < yoleaux> "The coelacanths (i/ˈsiːləkænθ/ SEE-lə-kanth) constitute a rare order of fish that includes two extant species in the genus Latimeria: the West Indian Ocean coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae) and the Indonesian coelacanth (Latimeria menadoensis)." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanth
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13:21 < kanzure_> .title http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/fed_regs/quotas/2013/fr0909.htm
13:21 < yoleaux> Established Aggregate Production Quotas for Schedule I and II Controlled Substances and Established Assessment of Annual Needs for the List I Chemicals Ephedrine, Pseudoephedrine, and Phenylpropanolamine for 2014
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13:23 < kanzure_> "production quotas" sounds like bullshit to me
13:23 < kanzure_> only 25 grams of heroin per year are allowed to be manufactured?
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13:46 < ParahSailin> thats probably about all they need to calibrate test kits or something
14:01 < dbolser> .suggest thats probably about all they need to calibrate test kits or something
14:01 < yoleaux> No suggestions for thats probably about all they need to calibrate test kits or something.
14:01 < dbolser> .suggest calibrate test kits
14:01 < yoleaux> Perhaps calibrate test kits: calibration test kits
14:01 < dbolser> .botsnack
14:01 < yoleaux> :D
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14:25 < kanzure> http://www.ebay.com/itm/200W-808nm-CW-High-Power-Laser-Diode-Stack-for-Heat-Treatment-Very-Powerful-/270918321913?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f13fd86f9
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14:26 < kanzure> https://sites.google.com/site/dtrlpf/home/diodes/445-m140-didoes
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14:30 < nmz787_i> i got a 405nm from them
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17:32 < kanzure> hm http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/userpix/2077_NEWCONELUMIXG1SPIRATONESSTBELLOWSLEICAREXTENSIONTUBEMOUNTLEITZPHOTAR25MM252_1.jpg
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17:39 < kanzure> "Many telescopes suffer needlessly from low contrast images caused by stray light reaching the focal plane. Applying a flat black paint to the inside of your telescope tube helps, but a textured matte black surface is a much better light trap. ProtoStar flocked paper is a very black, self adhesive, material The flocked paper has a surface texture that is best described as "peach fuzz," and the fibers don't shed like some velvets and felts do. ...
17:39 < kanzure> ... When looked at from low angles, it absorbs virtually 100% of light that strikes it." http://web.archive.org/web/20050331003652/http://www.kendrickastro.com/astro/protostar.html
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17:45 < kanzure> "interesting! I was able to duplicate the issue.  I dont know why exactly this happens, but it is because the second one creates a non-manifold object-- the circle of radius 0.5 makes the very sides of the object zero thickness, and the solid engine has issues with that. I expected this to work: Workplane("front").rect(1,1).circle(0.49).extrude(1) but it doesnt.  oddly, this works: Workplane("front").rect(1,1).circle(0.41).extrude(1) radius ...
17:46 < kanzure> ... 0.41 is the largest value that works for me. I have no idea why at this point.  I'll look into it though."
17:47 < kanzure> ParahSailin: problems like these. now i have to debug opencascade and figure out why it can't cut a circle through a square.
17:59 < dingo> haqha
17:59 < dingo> 24 hours later, congrats
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18:01 < kanzure> dingo: and here i thought i was just bad at basic shapes
18:04 < dingo> theres some joke about putting a square peg in a round hole
18:05 < dingo> i just ain't so witty
18:09 < kanzure> some blood test prices http://www.theranos.com/test-menu
18:14 < kanzure> "Secrecy buys them two things: 1. Their competitors won't know what their loss leaders are. If assays A,B, and C have been optimized to profitability but D and E are still loss leaders, a competitor could use that knowledge by subsidizing demand for D and E (e.g. by undercutting them and forwarding the assay work, whereby the competitor spends $1 to force them to spend $10)."
18:15 < kanzure> "2. Patent trolls (are they really trolls if they spent money to develop the technology and make a product based on it?) won't know what to sue them for."
18:25 < kanzure> although, i don't know if the forwarding of assay work would actually work in the competitor's favor, since the originating company could just throttle assay work or sales to that particular company
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21:05 < kanzure> screw it, i'm going back to solidworks
21:07 < nmz787> r u 4 realz?
21:08 < kanzure> circles don't even work
21:23 < nmz787> that
21:23 < nmz787> 's not brlcad tho right?
21:23 < kanzure> freecad/opencascade
21:23 < kanzure> 10:55 < kanzure> this is a box with a cylindrical through-hole: part1 = Workplane("front").rect(1,1).circle(0.25).extrude(1)
21:23 < kanzure> 10:55 < kanzure> this is the same box but it does not have a cylindrical through-hole: part1 = Workplane("front").rect(1,1).circle(0.5).extrude(1)
21:23 < nmz787> why invest time in that, if the gsoc and MIL is behind brl?
21:24 < kanzure> they are writing bad python
21:24 < kanzure> and the nurbs portions are C++ anyway, which doesn't get autowrapped into python-brlcad (which uses ctypes and ctypesgen)
21:25 < kanzure> i guess i could write a c wrapper to dump into brlcad that wraps their c++ stuff
21:27 < kanzure> brlcad edges/vertices/faces/surfaces aren't exposed in brlcad like they are in opencascade/acis/parasolid :\
21:27 < ParahSailin> what you need is a ctypes that does nm -C hax on c++ shared libs
21:29 < kanzure> what i really need is a library that fucking works
21:32 < kanzure> i guess i should try esolid + cython again
21:32 < nmz787> i thought you just need to include python.h to make a c to python wrapper
21:32 < nmz787> and do the PyObject stuff
21:33 < nmz787> unpacg args, pack retvals
21:33 < kanzure> ctypes, yo
21:33 < kanzure> and ctypesgen https://github.com/kanzure/ctypesgen
21:33 < kanzure> that's how i did python-brlcad
21:33 < nmz787> or swig
21:33 < kanzure> no way in hell i'm going to write 10000 lines of wrapper code
21:33 < kanzure> swig sux
21:33 < nmz787> why doesn't the code get autowrapped?
21:34 < nmz787> isn't that a feature of wig?
21:34 < nmz787> swig
21:34 < kanzure> ctypes doesn't do demangling of c++ stuff
21:35 < nmz787> whatcha mean, i think i've import ctypes or seen it importe
21:35 < nmz787> dunno what it is/ does
21:35 < kanzure> i think the problem with brlcad/swig was something regarding brlcad's gratuitous use of fancy preprocessor macros
21:36 < kanzure> ctypes is a lot like libffi
21:36 < kanzure> .wik libffi
21:36 < yoleaux> "libffi is a foreign function interface library." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libffi
21:36 < kanzure> .wik ctypes (software)
21:37 < yoleaux> "In computing, a binding from a programming language to a library or operating system service is an application programming interface (API) providing glue code to use that library or service in a particular programming language." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ctypes_(software)
21:37 < kanzure> "ctypes is a foreign function library for Python. It provides C compatible data types, and allows calling functions in DLLs or shared libraries. It can be used to wrap these libraries in pure Python."
21:38 < nmz787> so ctypes is different than including Python.h in a wrapper file and compiling it into a module is something else?
21:38 < nmz787> sorry
21:38 < kanzure> definitely different
21:38 < nmz787> i am tired of typing today
21:38 < kanzure> also, ctypesgen uses pygccxml to scan source code and header files to generate a json structure that can be used to generate python that uses ctypes based on the source code of your target library
21:39 < nmz787> when i was doing some opencv i just compiled it into a module... i only had a few functions passing data and paths and params tho
21:39 < kanzure> i am not very interested in typing PyObject* a billion times for every function or struct
21:39 < nmz787> hmm, that sounds convuluted/prone to lots of debugging
21:39 < kanzure> works fine
21:40 < kanzure> wraps brlcad without a problem, which is a few million lines of legacy code
21:40 < gradstudentbot> I could never be a PI.
21:40 < nmz787> seems like a function could be written to do it for you... or just limit I/O and let the C++ do the hard work
21:40 < nmz787> so have fewer functions to wrap
21:40 < kanzure> the point is to make the API available in your target language
21:40 < nmz787> if its done right, should only have to type that billion once!
21:40 < nmz787> oh
21:41 < nmz787> well
21:41 < nmz787> idk, i thought it was python for the world!
21:41 < nmz787> .wik ftw
21:41 < yoleaux> "FTW may refer to:" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ftw
21:41 < nmz787> ok
21:41 < nmz787> yoleux more
21:42 < kanzure> none of this wrapping stuff matters at all if the actual api sucks
21:42 < nmz787> does it?
21:42 < kanzure> for example, you can't iterate over edges, vertices, surfaces in brlcad
21:42 < nmz787> mh
21:42 < nmz787> hm
21:43 < kanzure> and the nurby parts aren't in c anyway, which makes wrapping more annoying
21:43 < nmz787> isn't there some graph or something?
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21:43 < kanzure> somewhere, but with my luck it's probably hidden behind some stupid preprocessor macro that can't be wrapped
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21:51 < nmz787> why would macros be a deal breaker?
21:51 < nmz787> i guess figuring them out might be a challenge
21:51 < kanzure> because they don't get wrapped
21:51 < nmz787> do the existing devs like you?
21:51 < kanzure> and because their whole codebase is extremely reliant on it
21:51 < nmz787> or are there none around anymore?
21:52 < kanzure> brlcad developers hang out in #brlcad
21:52 < kanzure> standard business hours
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21:52 < nmz787> in this country?
21:52 < kanzure> they find me okay, but they have different priorities
21:52 < kanzure> yes in this country
21:52 < kanzure> it's the military
21:53 < gradstudentbot> The real reason I wanted to join this lab was because I love to clean glassware.
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21:54 < kanzure> hello joepie91_
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--- Log closed Fri Jun 27 00:00:47 2014