--- Log opened Tue Jul 01 00:00:36 2014
--- Day changed Tue Jul 01 2014
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06:07 < kanzure> eudoxia: ping
06:10 < eudoxia> hello
06:10 < yoleaux> 01:15Z <kanzure> eudoxia: < paperbot> RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded (file "/usr/lib/python2.7/_weakrefset.py", line 72, in __contains__)
06:10 < eudoxia> is that the garbage collector recurring infinitely
06:10 < eudoxia> omg
06:11 < gradstudentbot> I am sponsored by Thermo Fisher.
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06:18 < kanzure> it's the response to your paperbutt request
06:19 < eudoxia> that was nmz787
06:19 < kanzure> doh
06:19 < kanzure> sorry then
06:19 < kanzure> "Nevertheless, just releasing OSS is NOT an exempt purpose. If you read the IRS regulations, they are very specific as to what a core exempt purpose is. You'll need to pick one that fits best. Generally speaking, it's 1) Church stuff 2) Scientific advancement and research 3) Furthering of the arts 4) Education 5) "Charity," meaning helping people who are disadvantaged in some way 6) Some others that I'm not remembering."
06:20 < kanzure> "If you're working with an OSS community, it's important to note that giving stuff away != a charity. You need to emphasize that you are working specifically for the underprivileged. Even if you have an underprivileged community that you are serving, if you serve all comers it could easily seem as if it was self-serving to donors"
06:21 < kanzure> "If what you want to do is just be tax-exempt -- but not have tax deductible donations -- that's a much easier thing to do. A 501(c)6 may serve any community, so long as it gets most of its funding from donations or membership dues. That's how the Linux Foundation handles it. It's less desirable, but it will prevent you having to pay tons of back taxes."
06:22 < kanzure> "The Apache Software Foundation has a scientific exemption, and IPython is fiscally-sponsored by NumFocus (http://numfocus.org) which has a scientific exemption as well."
06:23 < kanzure> "'You have a substantial nonexempt purpose because you develop software published under open source compatible licenses that authorize use by any person for any purpose, including nonexempt purposes such as commercial, recreational, or personal purposes, including campaign intervention and lobbying.'. By this logic, all non-profit educational entities should be disqualified because things people learn through their programs might later be ...
06:23 < kanzure> ... used by those people to make a profit."
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06:25 < kanzure> from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7969112
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06:56 < kanzure> .wik SGP4
06:56 < yoleaux> "Simplified perturbations models are a set of five mathematical models (SGP, SGP4, SDP4, SGP8 and SDP8) used to calculate orbital state vectors of satellites and space debris relative to the Earth-centered inertial coordinate system." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SGP4
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08:53 < kanzure> http://www.makerbeam.eu/epages/63128753.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/63128753/Products/01mbtbkitreg
08:54 < kanzure> "consists of 50 beams, 60 brackets, a bag of bolts and nuts and a hex nut driver"
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09:30 < kanzure> ParahSailin: i think swig or cython plus opennurbs is a good place to start
09:30 < ParahSailin> we like opennurbs the best?
09:30 < kanzure> well...
09:31 < kanzure> there are too many options that aren't fitting in my head
09:31 < kanzure> opennurbs is C++, which makes it annoying to bind or wrap
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09:31 < kanzure> and the rhino people stripped out the juicy parts related to intersections and boolean operations
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09:31 < kanzure> however, brlcad's implementation of intersections and boolean operations is based on opennurbs' data structures
09:31 < kanzure> (opennurbs is vendorized in brlcad)
09:32 < kanzure> http://gnusha.org/logs/2010-08-11.log
09:32 < kanzure> 10:34 < kanzure> okay, so, i was trying to swig opennurbs and i found someone who attempted it a while back
09:32 < ParahSailin> swig is at least doable
09:32 < kanzure> 10:34 < kanzure> (and the resulting file)
09:32 < kanzure> 10:35 < kanzure> i've finally got it down to only a handful of errors when compiling the _opennurbs.so object
09:32 < kanzure> 10:35 < kanzure> for instance: opennurbs_wrap.cxx:(.text+0xa6bb2): undefined reference to `ON_UuidIndexList::Write(ON_BinaryArchive&) const'
09:32 < kanzure> 10:36 < kanzure> there's about 8 of those left, but there were originally 20 of those and i made them vanish by adding %ignore lines to the swig interface file (but apparently %ignore didn't work for these few remaining issues?)
09:32 < kanzure> 11:59 < kanzure> ooh it worked: g++ -c ../opennurbs/*.cpp opennurbs_wrap.cxx -I/usr/include/python2.5/ -I/usr/lib/python2.5/ -L. -lpython2.5 -lopenNURBS -lGLU -lGL -lglut -lXmu -lXi -lXext -lX11 2>&1
09:33 < kanzure> 11:59 < kanzure> but i had to manually edit opennurbs_wrap.cxx because the %ignore statements didn't take effect >:o
09:33 < kanzure> 12:51 < kanzure> >> import opennurbs
09:33 < kanzure> 12:51 < kanzure> success.. but i didn't bother to check if ON_GL was in the swig interface definition >_< so there's no opengl stuff included
09:33 < kanzure> huh i don't remember that working
09:34 < gradstudentbot> That would be highly informative, wouldn't it?
09:35 < ParahSailin> why did it need all those X11 things to link to
09:36 < ParahSailin> opennurbs isnt just pure computation, and includes display as well?
09:39 < kanzure> yeah there's a opennurbs_gl.cpp and opennurbs_gl.h
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09:40 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/brlcad/tree/master/src/other/openNURBS
09:40 < kanzure> it includes GL/gl.h and GL/glu.h
09:41 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/brlcad/blob/master/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_gl.cpp
09:42 < kanzure> the one that accepts ON_BrepFace seems to be the important one
09:43 < kanzure> it performs mesh = face.Mesh(ON::render_mesh) or it performs "(slow and buggy) glu trimmed NURBS rendering" based on gluNurbsSurface in the ON_GL that uses ON_NurbsSurface
09:45 < kanzure> the other reason was because i didn't know which libraries would make it work, so i was trying basically anything :(
09:45 < ParahSailin> is it possible to compile a so that doesnt have those?
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09:45 < kanzure> oh, probably. worst case scenario is just remove the ON_GL code i think. i doubt it's referenced a bunch. could also be a preprocessor ifdef thing.
09:46 < ParahSailin> like, using normal CPP things
09:47 < kanzure> in fact, ON_GL only shows up in opennurbs_gl.cpp and opennurbs_gl.h
09:47 < kanzure> and the makefile
09:47 < ParahSailin> ah, so just to autoconf disable
09:49 < kanzure> i wonder why i tried to use their opengl stuff
09:49 < kanzure> that whole file can very easily be written in python and use python opengl things
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11:23 < kanzure> strange pile of python (not quite opennurbs) https://github.com/mcneel/rhinopython/tree/master/scripts/rhinoscript
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11:26 < dingo> my favorite new python proj is https://github.com/GreenSteam/pep257/
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11:29 < kanzure> no way, every docstring should have 10000 extra spaces
11:30 < kanzure> "Docstring {under,over}-indented."
11:30 < kanzure> "Put multi-line docstring closing quotes on separate line."
11:30 < kanzure> huh u""" is py2 only? what about 3 :(
11:30 < kanzure> oh right, unicode.
11:30 < kanzure> ok
11:31 < dingo> py 3.3+ allows u"""
11:31 < dingo> py >3 < 3.3 does not
11:32 < kanzure> does anyone still use doctests?
11:32 < dpk> paperbot: http://dx.doi.org/10.1177/0361684310397698
11:33 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/b21dc2045769622310ac49da6973852b.txt
11:33 < dpk> paperbot: http://pwq.sagepub.com/content/early/2011/04/12/0361684310397698
11:34 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Leaks%2C%20Lumps%2C%20and%20Lines%3A%20Stigma%20and%20Women%27s%20Bodies.pdf
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11:55 < ybit2> nasa ames is about to hear this pitch
11:55 < ybit2> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ll_ONc357_T0ousSxknu3tUfk33TK-0VyoBKT9W9D9w/edit
11:58 < ybit2> """
11:58 < ybit2> NASA Ames's interest in the project is that they are seeking technologies to develop a <$2 billion/year operating cost lunar base. So they want people with tech. This is about offering access to the maker/hacker community as tech developers. Similar to SpaceGAMBIT and DARPA collaborating to fund hackerspaces working on aerospace technologies."""
11:58 < ybit2> """
11:58 < ybit2> Now it would be NASA Ames, the lunar hackerbase and partners. NASA funds the endeavor. They get tech developed via the open-source community of hackers/makers.
11:58 < ybit2> """
11:59 < ybit2> """
11:59 < ybit2> Now it would be NASA Ames, the lunar hackerbase and partners. NASA funds the endeavor. They get tech developed via the open-source community of hackers/makers.
11:59 < ybit2> """
11:59 < kanzure> aren't there simpler ways for nasa to get open source technology development other than a lunar colony?
11:59 < ybit2> wrong paste
12:00 < ybit2> """I am thinking of starting with the relationship infrastructure, then pitching the project as a lunar base's version of the Open-Source Ecology website"""
12:00 < ybit2> maybe
12:01 < kanzure> i think these people should focus their efforts on a general proposal to get nasa more vested in producing open source technology (it could include specifics like "funding hackerspaces" or whatever, i don't care)
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16:19 < kanzure> argh swig
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16:32 < kanzure> why is this not exiting? g++ -fPIC -c opennurbs_wrap.cxx -c *.cpp -I/usr/include/python2.7
16:34 < kanzure> ah it just takes a few minutes. wtf.
16:36 < ParahSailin> thats normal
16:36 < ParahSailin> i bet it eats like 3 GB of ram too
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16:45 < kanzure> ImportError: ./_opennurbs.so: undefined symbol: _ZN12ON_NurbsCage8ClampEndEii
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16:53 < kanzure> ImportError: ./_opennurbs.so: undefined symbol: _ZN8ON_Group19m_ON_Group_class_idE
16:53 < kanzure> why am i getting different errors?
16:54 < dingo> :D
16:54 < ParahSailin> so you compiled the so with the same source you made swig with?
16:55 < kanzure> yes
16:55 < kanzure> swig -classic -cpperraswarn -c++ -python opennurbs.i
16:55 < kanzure> g++ -fPIC -c opennurbs_wrap.cxx -c *.cpp -I/usr/include/python2.7
16:56 < kanzure> g++ -shared libopenNURBS.a opennurbs_wrap.o -o _opennurbs.so
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17:01 < kanzure> ImportError: ./_opennurbs.so: undefined symbol: _ZN11ON_Viewport15DefaultNearDistE
17:01 < kanzure> argh
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17:01 < kanzure> i'm p. sure opennurbs_viewport.cpp is included in here somewhere
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17:36 < ParahSailin> oh is that what the so is?
17:36 < ParahSailin> what happens when you make the opennurbs.so using normal makefile that came with opennurbs
17:37 < ParahSailin> like, is there something in ./configure to --enable-shared to make libopenNURBS.so?
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17:50 < kanzure> it's cmake
17:50 < kanzure> IF(NOT DEFINED BUILD_SHARED_LIBS) set(BUILD_SHARED_LIBS ON) ENDIF(NOT DEFINED BUILD_SHARED_LIBS)
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18:21 < kanzure> ParahSailin: you're claim is i'm linking too many things?
18:21 < kanzure> multiple definitions?
18:21 < eudoxia> somebody should write a thing that takes a C++ .hpp and creates a raw C file that wraps it, so it can more easily be bound from another language
18:21 < eudoxia> somebody preferably not me
18:22 < ParahSailin> thats swig
18:22 < eudoxia> i meant something that comes before the actual "emit bindings for language X" part
18:22 < ParahSailin> thats swig
18:23 < kanzure> "Although the main branch of SWIG cannot generate C wrappers for C++ API (the SWIG documentation quoted in the question is a bit misleading), there is a SWIG branch created during Google Summer of Code 2008 and available at https://swig.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/swig/branches/gsoc2008-maciekd/ which does just that."
18:23 < eudoxia> oh cool
18:23 < ParahSailin> kanzure: i dunno what the cmake puts in the ar for static linking
18:25 < ParahSailin> theres usually crazy differences between the .a and the .so for name mangling reasons
18:25 < kanzure> btw i'm just using brlcad's src/other/openNURBS/ separately (cmake && make)
18:25 < kanzure> yeah there's a .a too
18:26 < kanzure> g++ -shared libopenNURBS.a opennurbs_*.o -o _opennurbs.so -lGLU -lGL
18:26 < kanzure> import opennurbs -> ImportError: ./_opennurbs.so: undefined symbol: _ZN12ON_NurbsCage8ClampEndEii
18:27 < ParahSailin> try linking to the so instead?
18:28 < ParahSailin> might just do the same thing, but in my yak shaving experience, thats always the second thing to try
18:28 < kanzure> ImportError: libopenNURBS.so.2012.10.245: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
18:28 < kanzure> ther'es a libopenNURBS.so.2012.10.245 in the local directory
18:29 < kanzure> and if i set LD_LIBRARY_PATH=`pwd`, i get the same ImportError anyway: ImportError: ./_opennurbs.so: undefined symbol: _ZN12ON_NurbsCage8ClampEndEii
18:29 < ParahSailin> g++ -shared -L. -lopenNURBS opennurbs_*.o -o _opennurbs.so -lGLU -lGL
18:30 < ParahSailin> ah, was worth a try
18:30 < ParahSailin> wait thats a different error than before
18:33 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/brlcad-opennurbs.zip
18:33 < kanzure> cmake . && make
18:33 < kanzure> then run these three:
18:33 < kanzure> swig -classic -cpperraswarn -c++ -python opennurbs.i
18:33 < kanzure> g++ -fPIC -c opennurbs_wrap.cxx -c *.cpp -I/usr/include/python2.7
18:33 < kanzure> g++ -shared libopenNURBS.a opennurbs_wrap.o -o _opennurbs.so (or whatever..)
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18:53 < ParahSailin> that is weird, i have actual symbol "_ZN13ON_NurbsCage8ClampEndEii" in the file, but i am looking for "_ZN12ON_NurbsCage8ClampEndEii" instead
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19:01 < kanzure> .cdecl _ZN13ON_NurbsCage8ClampEndEii
19:01 < kanzure> .decl _ZN13ON_NurbsCage8ClampEndEii
19:01  * kanzure oofs
19:07 < kanzure> maybe there's an extra function signature somewhere
19:11 < ParahSailin> wtf, in opennurbs_nurbssurface.o the symbol table entry for the ClampEnd shit actually shows up with the column saying "undefined"
19:12 < ParahSailin> nevermind, different ClampEnd
19:15 < ParahSailin> er i dont find anything that defines NurbsCage ClampEnd
19:15 < ParahSailin> it seems like that would be in _nurbsvolume
19:15 < ParahSailin> because thats where all his friends are
19:16 < kanzure> where is it coming from if it has no function definition?
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19:21 < ParahSailin> so its actually a thingy in nurbssurface.h but not actually defined in the cxx file
19:22 < ParahSailin> wacky fun
19:22 < ParahSailin> serious
19:25 < ParahSailin> so if you nm -C your object file and awk '($1=="U"){print}' you get a handy list of symbols that are defined in .h files but not actually defined
19:27 < ParahSailin> manually delete these from your swig shit http://lpaste.net/106768
19:28 < kanzure> what about this one? U operator new[](unsigned long)@@GLIBCXX_3.4
19:29 < kanzure> i'm thinking something like this: http://hastebin.com/pizimunaso.i
19:30 < kanzure> but dunno how to deal with your new[] operator
19:30 < ParahSailin> dont delete that obviously
19:31 < ParahSailin> it snuck into my paste
19:37 < kanzure> well now i get: ImportError: ./_opennurbs.so: undefined symbol: _ZNK7ON_Mesh20GetClashingFacePairsEiR14ON_SimpleArrayI10tagON_2dexE
19:37 < kanzure> i had: %ignore ON_Mesh::GetClashingFacePairs(int, ON_SimpleArray<tagON_2dex>&);
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19:44 < ParahSailin> oh, python just doesnt like to import anything where there are undefined symbols
19:45 < ParahSailin> you gotta do dlopen with non-default params
19:46 < ParahSailin> because normal import expects the so to be well-behaved
19:46 < kanzure> maybe there's a way to not include undefined symbols at compile time
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19:47 < ParahSailin> clearly you need to make a cxx file that defines all of those functions as return NULL
19:48 < kanzure> ugh
19:49 < kanzure> ImportError: ./_opennurbs.so: undefined symbol: _ZNK13ON_NurbsCurve10IsSingularEv
19:49 < kanzure> was your list incomplete?
19:50 < ParahSailin> oh, so yeah it is
19:50 < kanzure> a warning would have been nice
19:50 < ParahSailin> the ON shit is interspersed with libstdc++ and python undefined symbols
19:50 < kanzure> my hopes were up and everything
19:51 < ParahSailin> http://lpaste.net/106770
19:51 < ParahSailin> that was with nm -C slut.so | mawk '($1=="U" && substr($2,1,2)=="ON"){print}'
19:51 < ParahSailin> that might be missing some still
19:52 < ParahSailin> erm actuall i got it all the first time
19:55 < gradstudentbot> That result wasn't repeatable.
19:56 < kanzure> oh brother
19:56 < kanzure> fuck me
19:56 < kanzure> http://swig.10945.n7.nabble.com/How-do-I-get-rid-of-these-undefined-symbols-in-the-generated-output-td3265.html
19:57 < ParahSailin> i wonder what happens when i delete those from the .h files
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20:01 < cpopell_> hey kanzure, have you used qiqqa?
20:01 < kanzure> no, but bug joepie91 when he's around
20:02 < cpopell_> k
20:02 < cpopell_> trying to figure out how qiqqa and mendeley/zotero stack up for my needs
20:02 < kanzure> paperbot is powered by zotero
20:05 < cluckj> zotero is alright
20:05 < kanzure> ParahSailin: i feel pretty stupid that there is an exact email about "problems related to wrapping opennurbs with swig for python, in particular the exact problem that we're talking about"
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20:05 < ParahSailin> you mean you for 5 years ago?
20:05 < kanzure> hm?
20:06 < ParahSailin> the thing you just linked?
20:06 < kanzure> yeah
20:06 < kanzure> someone had this exact problem
20:16 < kanzure> ImportError: ./_opennurbs.so: undefined symbol: _ZNK13ON_NurbsCurve10IsSingularEv
20:16 < kanzure> even though i had %ignore ON_NurbsCurve::IsSingular;
20:17 < ParahSailin> so apparently i dont know how to use %ignore because that shit is still appearing in the cxx file
20:18 < kanzure> "You probably aren't using %ignore correctly. Make sure the %ignore is
20:18 < kanzure> before SWIG parses the definition of the symbol. "
20:18 < kanzure> fuck
20:19 < ParahSailin> normally you add stuff to the bottom of the file for precedence
20:19 < ParahSailin> in swig every day is opposite day
20:21 < kanzure> ImportError: ./_opennurbs.so: undefined symbol: _ZNK12ON_NurbsCage9SpanCountEi
20:21 < kanzure> %ignore ON_NurbsCage::SpanCount(int);
20:23 < ParahSailin> what the hell _ZNK7ON_Mesh20GetClashingFacePairsEiR14ON_SimpleArrayI10tagON_2dexE
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20:30 < kanzure> got it.. http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/opennurbs/brlcad-opennurbs2.zip
20:31 < ParahSailin> dicking around with %ignore stuff?
20:31 < kanzure> yep
20:31 < ParahSailin> turns out you cant put them all at the top either
20:31 < ParahSailin> you just cant win
20:31 < ParahSailin> do you have to actually intersperse them throughout the file?
20:32 < kanzure> i put them at the top
20:32 < ParahSailin> i put them at the top too
20:32 < kanzure> i removed the exact signatures and just blasted away all signatures for functions with the same name
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20:37 < ParahSailin> what a waste
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20:57 < kanzure> ?
20:59 < cpopell_> http://tuvalu.santafe.edu/~bn/reading_group/Huberman.pdf
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21:33 < kanzure> ParahSailin: now what?
21:34 < kanzure> that might be the tiredness talking. prolly stupid question.
21:34 < ParahSailin> heh
21:34 < ParahSailin> what is a brep anyway
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22:02 < kanzure> who knows
22:02 < kanzure> something about a boundary
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22:03 < kanzure> this should be rewritten in c or python
22:06 < kanzure> oh right, i was going to try cadquery things
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23:54 < nmz787> welp got an opporunity for part-time FIB operator work
23:54 < nmz787> :)
--- Log closed Wed Jul 02 00:00:52 2014