--- Log opened Fri Aug 15 00:00:35 2014
00:10 -!- snuffeluffegus [~snuffeluf@2001:9b0:10:2104:216:3eff:feb7:f845] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:14 -!- sapiosexual [~sapiosexu@d205-250-250-119.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: No calling card for the unsung bard]
00:16 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@2a02:270:2015:b00b:d1ea:b967:e085:b67e] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:41 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@2a02:270:2015:b00b:d1ea:b967:e085:b67e] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
00:53 -!- kumavis [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
00:53 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-168-30.lns3.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:54 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-168-30.lns3.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:22 -!- faddat [~faddat@222.248.56.76] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:56 -!- PoohBear [~PoohBear@pdpc/supporter/student/poohbear] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:18 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bndudjuqooxnmlgq] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:39 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:44 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
03:15 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:20 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
03:31 < ebowden> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15603744
03:31 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1016%2Fj.neuron.2004.12.001
03:38 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:38 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood]
04:19 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-168-30.lns3.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:33 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-168-30.lns3.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:36 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:06 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:20 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-168-30.lns3.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
05:21 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-168-30.lns3.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:29 -!- pi- [~Ohmu@cpc2-oxfd18-2-0-cust90.4-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:30 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-168-30.lns3.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
05:30 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-168-30.lns3.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:31 < pi-> Hello everyone
05:31 < pi-> How many more of these hidden magic spots exist I wonder
05:32 < ebowden> Probably a few.
05:32 < pi-> Is anyone interested in critical period plasticity?
05:33 < archels> hello pi-
05:33 < pi-> hello
05:33 < archels> what is your perspective on plasticity--biological, computational?
05:33 < archels> nootropic?
05:33 < pi-> bio/noot
05:35 < pi-> http://pbrd.co/1t690kX <-- everything there that is non-invasive
05:35 < archels> that recent thing about valproate comes to mind
05:35 < pi-> That's about half the things in the green, and tDCS in the purple
05:35 < pi-> yer I've just been trying it this last fortnight
05:36 < pi-> It causes inflammation in my lungs
05:36 < archels> oh, that's no good
05:36 < pi-> I checked and it is reported side-effect for <1% of the population
05:36 < pi-> So ... bollocks eh
05:36  * archels is a bit sceptical about the 'all thought to trigger plasticity... balance excitation/inhibition'
05:37 < pi-> I don't yet know enough to be sceptical or anti-sceptical
05:37 < pi-> Whatever that word is...
05:37 < archels> gullible
05:38 < archels> :)
05:38 < pi-> :)
05:39 < pi-> I've been digging into the literature for the last month
05:39 < ebowden> Can you ever not know enough to be gullible?
05:39 < pi-> I think that's hence the smileys -- it isn't the correct opposite word
05:40 < pi-> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15603744
05:40 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1016%2Fj.neuron.2004.12.001
05:40 < pi-> ?!
05:40 < pi-> damn
05:40  * pi- feeds paperbot a cookie
05:42  * ebowden pets paperbot
05:48 -!- comma8 [comma8@gateway/shell/yourbnc/x-yykzukflrohwwngp] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
06:00 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-168-30.lns3.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:07 -!- snuffeluffegus [~snuffeluf@2001:9b0:10:2104:216:3eff:feb7:f845] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
06:08 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
06:23 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:24 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
06:31 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:47 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-184-62.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:52 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-184-62.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:52 -!- eudoxia_ [~eudoxia@r186-50-239-222.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:09 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has quit []
08:10 -!- kumavis [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:13 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@p5DDDCDB6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:13 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@p5DDDCDB6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host]
08:13 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:13 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:15 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:15 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood]
08:18 -!- HashNuke [uid12117@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-htdmivdgfnpdhzjq] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:30 < heath> http://www.shellcheck.net/
08:30 < heath> automatically detects problems with sh/bash scripts and commands.
08:31 < heath> https://github.com/koalaman/shellcheck
08:32 < nsh> ShellCheck is written in Haskell, and requires 2 GB of memory to compile.
08:32 < nsh> im lol't
08:36 < kanzure> be nice
08:36 < kanzure> hm that actually does sound pretty awful
08:37 < ParahSailin> ghc can go a little crazy
08:42 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bndudjuqooxnmlgq] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
08:43 < kanzure> bleh https://characteristic.readthedocs.org/en/0.1.0/why.html
08:44 < kanzure> "The difference between namedtuples and classes decorated by characteristic is that the latter are type-sensitive and less typing aside regular classes"
08:58 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@192.55.55.37] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:59 < nsh> oh you know there's a type theory podcast now
08:59 < nsh> .g type theory podcast
08:59 < yoleaux> http://typetheorypodcast.com/2014/08/episode-1-peter-dybjer-on-type-theory-and-testing/
08:59 < nsh> .t
08:59 < yoleaux> Fri, 15 Aug 2014 16:01:34 UTC
08:59 < nsh> .title
08:59 < yoleaux> Episode 1: Peter Dybjer on types and testing
09:02 < kanzure> what we really need are hypertypes
09:07 < nsh> how do you mean?
09:07 < kanzure> said no one ever
09:20 < ParahSailin> hypertype is a kind
09:21 < ParahSailin> i dunno whats about kinds though
09:21 < ParahSailin> above
09:23 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@128.211.171.2] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:23 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@128.211.171.2] has quit [Changing host]
09:23 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:33 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
09:36 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:37 < ParahSailin> fucking ruby http://www.redmine.org/issues/16194
09:40 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@192.55.55.37] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
09:49 < kanzure> .title
09:49 < yoleaux> Feature #16194: Ruby 2.1 support
09:51 < chris_99> hmm it'd be cool if there was a tool to OCR the text from a chip diagram e.g. http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/images/functional_block_diagrams/ADA4870_fbl.png and generate a part from it, after you tell it the package type etc.
09:52 -!- kumavis [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
10:27 -!- nmz787_i1 [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-mqqiyhmtqtjgwuju] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:28 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-237-155-171.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:28 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-80-206-57.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:31 -!- HashNuke [uid12117@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-htdmivdgfnpdhzjq] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
10:59 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fnnmxwkqrcmvbltz] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:00 < nmz787_i1> ParahSailin: I'm supposed to ask you about what antibody work you wanted done
11:00 < ParahSailin> nothing at the moment
11:04 < kanzure> that's not what i told you to ask
11:04 < kanzure> i already covered it anyway
11:08 -!- _0bitcount [~big-byte@81.61.209.223.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:28 -!- eudoxia_ [~eudoxia@r186-50-239-222.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
11:37 < thundara> nmz787_i1: So I had a project this summer where I and a friend built it, wanted it to be OS, but also wanted to sell it
11:38 < thundara> So to cover our asses, we went with MS shared source
11:38 < thundara> Since it's "see the source", but "pay to deploy"
11:39 < kanzure> you can sell licenses even if you also use an open source license
11:39 < kanzure> i nfact, lots of people license their work using multiple licenses simultaneously
11:40 < thundara> Yeah, and the alternative to what we chose would be non-commercial license publicly and offer to negotiate a private one
11:41 < thundara> The alternative we went with was just BSD and hope we don't get screwed :)
11:41 < kanzure> yes but that doesn't communicate to him why an open source license can have benefits
11:42 < thundara> Well, that depends on if it's a library or if it's an application
11:43 < thundara> Application, meh, if it's OS, it's easy to share / reuse portions of code
11:43 < thundara> But I think in his case and ours, he's fine making the license OS AFTER he gets paid
11:43 < kanzure> this shortsightedness about making money cuts off huge amounts of strategies
11:43 < thundara> Re-license the project to BSD/GPL/whatever
11:43 < kanzure> like, it totally ignores all the reasons that companies actually write open source software
11:44 < kanzure> if they weren't able to make money on their software, why would they even bother using these licenses
11:44 < kanzure> his story doesn't add up
11:44 < thundara> If you're just doing a small project, the possibility of getting screwed over payment on it makes all the difference...
11:44 < kanzure> the potential to get screwed on payment is not why most people use open source licenses
11:45 < thundara> Well yes, but with BSD/GPL, the potential is there
11:46 < kanzure> huh?
11:46 < thundara> If you can find another NC + OS license, that's fine, then everything's happy dandy
11:46 < kanzure> let's say you are licensing some gpl software for $0, but you are making money with the software for other reasons, how is it that "the potential is still there" ??
11:47 < thundara> Well in our case (Maybe his), it wasn't SaaS, it was just selling one project
11:47 < thundara> In our case an application, in his, no clue
11:50 < thundara> Say, specialized account software, little value to you or me, doubtful we'd find another buyer, but to JPMorgan, it'll help their bottom line
11:50 < kanzure> so are you asserting that there is no way to monetize with an open source strategy
11:51 < thundara> We build it and intend to sell it for $$$$$$$, they notice it's BSD, fork it, start using that, and give us the middle finger, all legal
11:51 < thundara> Bad business, but all legal
11:52 < kanzure> okay, i have determined that you are an idiot
11:52 < thundara> Not necessarily no way, but some avenues are more difficult than others, depending on how malicious your buyer is
11:52 < thundara> That's an immature way to make an argument
11:52 < kanzure> look, i have no problem with you selling software, but your story about them forking it is really boring and misunderstands how people make money on open source
11:52 < thundara> I'm not saying sell to someone you think is going to fuck you
11:52 < kanzure> it's totally mature, i get to pick and choose who i want to speak with, fuck you
11:53 < thundara> My conversation was with nmz787_i1 anyways
11:58 < thundara> I've talked to other OS advocates before about it and the best answer they gave us for our case was "trust", which is a fine answer, but it's different from a legal guarantee
11:59 < thundara> We went with trust, since we figured paranoia was unwarranted
12:00 < kanzure> "give them a permissive license, then beg them for money just because" is not a part of any open source strategy i'm familiar with, i think those advocates you were talking with were dumb
12:01 -!- nmz787_i1 [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-mqqiyhmtqtjgwuju] has quit [K-Lined]
12:01 < thundara> If you're going to pretend like you understand this situation instead of asking more questions, then you're just going to get an inflammatory discussion
12:02 < thundara> The case around this is: It's a non-profit that doesn't understand technology
12:02 < thundara> It's a non-profit that has helped us, we want to help it back
12:02 < kanzure> you are the non-profit?
12:02 < dingo_> openbsd once said of sun, when they did "OpenSolaris", that "Open" was short for "Open for Business"
12:02 < thundara> kanzure: Co-op model, you can say we are part of it if you want, though neither of us are on its board
12:04 -!- nmz787_i [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-pvcjqvowqulbocdy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:04 < thundara> They wanted to do an RFP, we wanted to just build the product, because we knew what people wanted, then sell it later
12:04 < thundara> The "sane OS strategy" here would be wait for the RFP, apply, wait, sign contract, build it
12:05 < kanzure> or, don't partner with people that don't understand licensing
12:05 < thundara> Well like I said, it's a non-profit that has helped us, we want to help it back even if they are tech-ignorant
12:05 < kanzure> non-profit is just a tax status.. doesn't tell me much.
12:06 < thundara> Co-op housing
12:06 < thundara> But they want $20k for custom app + lifetime support
12:06 < kanzure> terrible
12:06 < thundara> Yeah
12:07 < thundara> But the software affects our friends, the people who work for the org, everyone, so we said fuckit, we'll build it
12:08 < thundara> Still no solution on lifetime support, but who knows, app is built now at least...
12:08 < thundara> So yeah, call me an idiot if you want, but sometimes the canonical business strategies don't fit everyday life
12:09 < kanzure> that's not why i called you an idiot
12:22 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-50-239-222.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:23 < nsh> eudoxia, can i come and live with you in .uy?
12:24 < nsh> oh, nm
12:24 < nsh> "The Extradition Treaty between the Government of the United States of America and the Governmnet of Uruguay was signed at Washington on 6 April 1973."
12:24 < eudoxia> aw
12:24 < kanzure> do we need to fake your death
12:25 < nsh> mebbes
12:25 < eudoxia> kanzure: there must be *somebody* here who can clone him, put the clone in a car and run it off a cliff
12:26 < nsh> you'd think...
12:26 < nsh> just don't ask the FDA first
12:27 < eudoxia> in law and order: criminal intent, vincent d'onofrio's nemesis escaped justice by fleeing to Australia
12:27 < eudoxia> oh there's an extradition treaty there too
12:58 < nsh> yeah, those entire television shows are false-flag operations
12:58 < kanzure> that's like fleeing to florida
12:58 < nsh> or limited hangout, or whatever term the dubiety-derelict are salivating over these days
13:01 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
13:06 -!- eudoxia_ [~eudoxia@r186-50-239-222.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:06 -!- eudoxia_ [~eudoxia@r186-50-239-222.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Client Quit]
13:06 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-50-239-222.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:15 -!- _0bitcount [~big-byte@81.61.209.223.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:18 < nmz787_i> thundara: thanks for the info... at first I thought you were talking about building an operating system and using a microsoft license at first, til I re-read things :P
13:18 < nmz787_i> thundara: I don't know what an MS license is though
13:19 < thundara> It's a bit specific to me, but yeah, wasn't sure your situation :P
13:19 < nmz787_i> chemistry and hardware, though I also code... stuff I put online usually is licenseless
13:20 < kanzure> that's not true at all
13:21 < kanzure> under u.s. law your shit is not licenseless
13:21 < nmz787_i> ok, awesome
13:21 < nmz787_i> default rules
13:21 < nmz787_i> the point is, anything I really value I keep to myself
13:22 < nmz787_i> it's hard though because I think there could be some help on development if I were to talk openly about it... but I also think that could be a big flop and then competitors would see secrets and use them
13:22 < nmz787_i> secrets/key-points unique/novel to my stuff
13:24 -!- snuffeluffegus [~snuffeluf@2001:9b0:10:2104:216:3eff:feb7:f845] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:25 < thundara> nmz787_i: They are they ones who are proponents of shared source licenses / wrote licenses along those lines, don't know of any other orgs that have adopted the idea (For good reason in most cases)
13:29 < nmz787_i> personally I'm ok with development being a little slow if it means a potentially larger payoff in the end
13:30 < nmz787_i> it's just annoying sometimes, and I def know I should know more about legalities
13:30 < kanzure> who sai danything about slow
13:30 < kanzure> *who said anything about slow
13:30 < nmz787_i> me
13:30 < thundara> Well, if you have other people on board, how does credit work at the end?
13:30 < nmz787_i> that too
13:30 < kanzure> the normal ways
13:30 < kanzure> wtf
13:30 < kanzure> jrayhawk: help :(
13:32 < nmz787_i> thundara: I think we crashed him
13:33 < kanzure> equity is the normal way
13:33 < kanzure> why would equity spontaneously not work in that scenario
13:34 < kanzure> equity and paying people, that too
13:35 < thundara> Not asking it as if it's an impossibility, just pointing out that it's something to think about
13:37 < thundara> nmz787_i: Easy readings
13:37 < thundara> http://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-free-for-non-commercial-use-license-to-use-for-an-open-source-project
13:37 < thundara> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/198616/what-license-is-best-for-this-software-is-open-source-and-free-to-use-as-long-a
13:41 < nmz787_i> thundara: hah, the second link has these comments: "why not just make it completely free, and sleep well knowing you've created something that others find useful?"         "Maybe he sleeps better with a roof over his head."
13:42 < kanzure> that's just a stupid argument, ignore it
13:42 < nmz787_i> it's exactly what i'm thinking
13:42 < nmz787_i> fuck pfizer or genentech or IDT
13:42 < nmz787_i> they can hire me if they want my ideas, I'm not giving them shit for free
13:42 < kanzure> "if you use an open source license, you will never make money because roofs over heads!"
13:43 < thundara> Yeah, strawman
13:43 < kanzure> well, that's what he just said
13:43 < kanzure> how is it a strawman
13:44 -!- radivis [~quassel@dslb-188-104-232-205.188.104.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:44 < thundara> I was echoing what you said: that's just a stupid argument, ignore it
13:44 < kanzure> he doesn't seem to be ignoring it
13:44 < nmz787_i> nope
13:44 < kanzure> he seems to agree completely
13:44 < nmz787_i> pretty much
13:45 < nmz787_i> not in all cases, but for some things, definitely
13:45 < thundara> It's... words... sec, organizing thoughts
13:45 < nmz787_i> I post little shit that would be helpful to the internet often enough, I can keep some potential money-makers to myself
13:45 < pi-> paperbot:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12440378
13:46 < kanzure> needs nbsp
13:46 < pi-> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12440378
13:46 < pi-> Is there any way I can do it without spamming the channel?
13:47 < kanzure> no
13:47 < pi-> I seem to have jammed it
13:47 < thundara> If you are trying an actual business model centered around OSS, those comments are pretty, dump, and ignorant of strategies that don't involve "sell software, walk away", like SaaS / selling support
13:48 < kanzure> pi-: it is thinking
13:48 < thundara> Because with places like pfizer, genetech, really any major corp, they want someone they can call to fix things, to add new features, etc as the years go by
13:48 < thundara> They don't want some crap that they drop $100k on and then breaks with a race condition that no one noticed in the initial release
13:49 < nmz787_i> thundara: software is a minor concern to me now, mainly it would be chemistry protocols that I'm thinking about now
13:49 < kanzure> those same strategies don't just magically fall apart the moment you stop talking about software
13:49 < nmz787_i> so since it's licensed someone else can't use it in their own patent?
13:50 < thundara> Yeah, is true of lots of everything from industrial fridges to washing machines
13:50 < kanzure> software patents tend to trump software copyright in many cases
13:50 < kanzure> but by trump i mean "the original deals are still valid, but now there's extra litigation"
13:51  * thundara doesn't know patent law
13:51 < nmz787_i> this also assumes someone catches this
13:51 < nmz787_i> catches the stealing/misuse
13:51 < kanzure> patents can also be licensed
13:51 < nmz787_i> if their shit is closed-source, only reverse engineering a new multi-$100k machine would be the only way to determine
13:51 < kanzure> that's why there are patent licenses
13:52 < kanzure> you have that problem no matter what
13:52 < nmz787_i> not with trade secrets as much
13:52 < kanzure> even with trade secrets
13:52 < nmz787_i> unless you have an organizational leak
13:53 < thundara> Organizations leak
13:53 < kanzure> memory leaks
13:55 < pi-> rkn it has given up
13:55 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12440378
13:56 -!- paperbot [~paperbot@131.252.130.248] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:56 -!- paperbot [~paperbot@131.252.130.248] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:56 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12440378
13:56 < kanzure> hmph.
13:56 < pi-> Is it rigged to report failure?
13:57 < kanzure> sort of... it reports to a secret operative.
13:57 < kanzure> 13:56 < paperbot> Translation server PDF fail
13:57 < kanzure> hm.
13:57 < kanzure> doesn't seem to be doing anything else
13:58 < thundara> nmz787_i: Since it's sort of disorganizedly coming out...
13:58 < thundara> You want a software / chemistry combo application?
13:58 < pi-> Maybe it just can't find the full text PDF. I can't find it anywhere else...
13:59 < thundara> That you want to sell to a pharma corp, but also want to open it up to allow for contributions from others?
13:59 < thundara> Open == publish source
14:00 < pi-> I use JUCE which is a multi platform C++ framework geared towards audio that creates its own license to allow exactly that model
14:01 < pi-> It is free so long as derived works are open source. But to use it for closed source commercial purposes you have to pay a license fee.
14:01 < thundara> That's sort of like GPL
14:01 < pi-> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10667797
14:01 < nmz787_i> thundara: not exactly/really
14:01 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2F35000226
14:02 < nmz787_i> thundara: I actually am working on chemistry like in a lab
14:02 < pi-> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12037567
14:02 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2F417547a
14:03 < pi-> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12089450
14:03 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1126%2Fscience.1073031
14:04 < nmz787_i> thundara: it would be nice to have some help on the ideas, and maybe opening up would help to inspire others to make new innovations... I just don't want some mega-corp pulling the rug from under me... seeing some message board e-mail chain about how to get around some problem, then incorporating it themselves and hiding it under a metal case that costs half a mil to purchase... such that I'd possibly never know it was stolen/used wit
14:05 < kanzure> you still have message cutoff
14:05 < pi-> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11891768
14:06 < thundara> Well, if you publish the source, fact of the matter is that less reputable groups will break the license and use it illegally, not much you can do about that (See ffmpeg's wall of shame), but for large corps, its usually the case that the money is less the problem than the support
14:07 < thundara> Like I said though, you can do a NC license (And dual license it when a commercial group wants to make an agreement), you just won't get much help from OSI people because it's against their ideology
14:07 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
14:08 < kanzure> haha ideology
14:08 < nmz787_i> is NC non-compete?
14:08 < kanzure> no
14:08 < kanzure> it's non-commercial
14:08 < pi-> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24586346
14:08 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0088593
14:08 < thundara> (Also, if you are in a lab, make sure you're not violating its policies on what of your work they have rights to)
14:08 < thundara> ^^
14:08 < kanzure> thundara: calling it ideology just gives him a reason to write it off ("they are clearly crazy")
14:09 < nmz787_i> thundara: it's my own biz
14:09 < thundara> kanzure: Fair point, yeah, don't mean it that way
14:11 < nmz787_i> realistically making the project take a few years longer doesn't seem to be a big deal on evolutionary time-scale... society can wait
14:11 < nmz787_i> there are also security aspects that I'm concerned about
14:11 < nmz787_i> I don't want to give China an 0day for biohacking
14:11 < kanzure> oh brother
14:11 < nmz787_i> or north K
14:12 < thundara> nmz787_i: Gonna hazard a guess and say they don't need our help
14:12 < nmz787_i> at least not til i patch myself :)
14:12 < nmz787_i> thundara: exactly, screw them
14:12 < kanzure> huh?
14:12 < kanzure> no, he's saying you shouldn't worry about releasing a 0day
14:13 < thundara> No, like, if they wanted to do it, they wouldn't need your help
14:13 < kanzure> anyway, you shouldn't assume that development time is substantially different just because of which licensing scheme you are using
14:13 < kanzure> nobody has ever said projects get developed faster because of an open source license
14:13 < kanzure> and i don't see why you would even bring that up
14:13 < kanzure> argh
14:13 < kanzure> jrayhawk: help?
14:14 < nmz787_i> no one comments on shit I don't post
14:14 < nmz787_i> posting would open it to commentary
14:14 < nmz787_i> since I don't have a chemist assistant yet on the project, there's no one now
14:14 < kanzure> what are you answering
14:15 < nmz787_i> (2:15:04 PM) kanzure: anyway, you shouldn't assume that development time is substantially different just because of which licensing scheme you are using
14:15 < kanzure> what does that have to do with commenting
14:15 < nmz787_i> the whole posting it is precluded by the licensing argument
14:15 < kanzure> what?
14:16 < kanzure> i am having a seriously hard time sorting through this spaghetti
14:16 < nmz787_i> I won't post if it isn't safe, if it isn't posted no one will comment, if no one comments I make take longer to discover/uncover flaw (or maybe i never find this out)
14:16 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:16 < nmz787_i> I make==I may
14:16 < thundara> Hehe, I wouldn't trust opening a project to be a substitute for QC / tests
14:18 < nmz787_i> not saying that at al
14:18 < nmz787_i> all
14:18 < nmz787_i> i'm talking about development
14:20 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
14:30 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:58 < ParahSailin> ruby too meta for documentation
15:01 < thundara> paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9780470122969.ch2/summary
15:01 < thundara> paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9780470122969.ch2/pdf
15:01 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/cfe72a384e8c49d83fd860eab1c8a950.txt
15:01 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/9b0916168074cb9d2b419a1f42d9179c.txt
15:03 < thundara> :(
15:03 -!- radivis [~quassel@dslb-188-104-232-205.188.104.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:05 < pi-> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15548666
15:05 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1523%2FJNEUROSCI.2828-04.2004
15:09 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:09 < pi-> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12815233
15:12 -!- snuffeluffegus [~snuffeluf@2001:9b0:10:2104:216:3eff:feb7:f845] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:14 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@179.26.110.204] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:18 < thundara> nmz787_i: The sort answer is that if you want, you can write your license to include: "Not for commercial use", and that will solve the problem that you are immediately asking
15:19 < thundara> But the more involved answer is that OSS groups advocate a different business model from the one you are describing, and it might be worth checking out publications by the OSI/EFF (And other groups?) before you set your idea in stone and begin work
15:24 < kanzure> that's not going to convince anyone of anything
15:26 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@179.26.110.204] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
15:35 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:47 < thundara> kanzure: Quit being passive aggressive, if you have an point, make it, I'm saying: "There are people who think and write a lot about these things and you should check them out", I'm not a financial advisor trying to save him from jeopardy.
15:47 < thundara> I am just trying to point him in the right direction, but I have better things to do than write on IRC all day
15:47 < kanzure> my exact point was that your sentence was unconvincing to him
15:48 < dingo_> i wouldn't contribute to a project that somebody makes money from, that i'm now allowed to, unless they're paying me
15:48 < kanzure> me telling you that is not passive aggressive, it's called being upfront..
15:48 < kanzure> dingo_: now allowed?
15:48 < dingo_> an open source license that is "Not for commercial use"
15:49 < dingo_> they're very off-putting as an OSS contributor
15:49 < dingo_> i look for ISC/BSD only wherever possible
16:26 -!- CharlieNobody [~CharlieNo@97-85-244-89.static.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:55 < nmz787_i> thundara: kanzure is wrong, your sentence was well taken.
16:57 < kanzure> you were convinced?
16:58 -!- |a| [~|d|@pool-71-253-202-243.nrflva.east.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:01 -!- nmz787_i [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-pvcjqvowqulbocdy] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
17:06 -!- kyknos_ [~kyknos@89.233.130.143] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:15 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:19 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-168-30.lns3.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:23 < nmz787> I was convinced that I could write my own license, and that OSS wouldn't advocate what I'm talking about
17:24 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-76-167-105-53.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:34 -!- faddat [~faddat@222.248.56.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
17:40 < bbrittain> wait. who is thinking about writing a license?
17:40 < bbrittain> like... thats a bad idea
17:41 < bbrittain> like... really bad.
17:41 < chris_99> probably, unless you know law
17:41 < bbrittain> even then
17:41 < bbrittain> questionably idea
17:41 < bbrittain> questionable* idea
17:42 < bbrittain> like, copyright/licensing laws are fucking complicated
17:42 < bbrittain> I have to deal with them all the time
17:42 < bbrittain> they do not work the way one expects half the time
17:43 < chris_99> mmm i imagine theres lots of loopholes
17:43 < chris_99> etc.
17:43 < kanzure> bbrittain: backcontext is that nmz787 thinks that you can't make money with open source, roofs over heads, etc
17:43  * bbrittain rolls eyes
17:43 < kanzure> and i have no idea how to debug this
17:45 < bbrittain> nmz787 should sell me unlimited amounts of redhat stock for cheap then
17:45 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-168-30.lns3.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:45 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-168-30.lns3.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:45 < bbrittain> or you know.... explain the paycheck I just picked up today
17:46 < kanzure> i can't explain that, why would they be giving you physical paychecks aren't they digital-friendly over there
17:47 < bbrittain> yea, but I like seeing how much money they take out in taxes every single time
17:47 < bbrittain> fills me with righteous anger.
17:48 < kanzure> ah
17:48 < kanzure> bbrittain: you will convince ginkgo to go for an open source strategy, right?
17:49 < bbrittain> kanzure: actually one of my goals in being there. I talked with them about it during my interviews
17:49 < kanzure> and what was the vibe?
17:49 < bbrittain> open to it at least on the software tools they have. biostuff... I dunno. I'll try
17:50 < kanzure> meh
17:50 < bbrittain> haven't talked with those people that much
17:50 < kanzure> that's not very encouraging, but whatever
17:50 < kanzure> their loss
17:50 < bbrittain> I can make them understand that
17:51 < kanzure> it's not "out of the goodness of their heart" thing (although it could be marketed that way for free)
17:51 < bbrittain> obviously not. there is benefit in making the ecosystem
17:51 < bbrittain> open source is good for a vast number of reasons
18:01 -!- |b| [~|d|@pool-71-253-202-243.nrflva.east.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:03 -!- |a| [~|d|@pool-71-253-202-243.nrflva.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
18:11 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:57 < nmz787> bbrittain: i definitely didn't say I didn't think money could be made
18:57 < nmz787> bbrittain: it was much more specific
18:59 -!- CharlieNobody [~CharlieNo@97-85-244-89.static.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:01 < kanzure> ?
19:31 -!- |b| is now known as |a|
19:37 -!- sapiosexual [~sapiosexu@d205-250-250-119.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:42 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: ruphos, andytoshi, drewbot, nsh_, juri_, catern, kyknos, kyknos_, nmz787
19:44 -!- catern [~catern@104.131.201.120] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:07 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20:11 -!- Netsplit over, joins: kyknos_, andytoshi, juri_, kyknos
20:11 -!- catern is now known as 5EXAAPBJQ
20:11 -!- Netsplit over, joins: drewbot, nsh_
20:11 -!- catern [~catern@catern.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:11 -!- Netsplit over, joins: ruphos, nmz787
20:12 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:14 < kanzure> hm
20:14 < ParahSailin> kanzure: have you had to work with rails much? this shit is incomprehensible
20:16 < ParahSailin> im seeing request.env pop up all over the place, and none of these functions have request as a parameter
20:16 < kanzure> i have written more with rails than i would ever want to admit
20:17 < kanzure> it is probably a reference to some member of the current controller
20:17 < kanzure> in general when headscratching about ruby always assume it's the most magical thing you could possibly imagine
20:17 < kanzure> so when there's something not defined? most likely a part of str
20:18 < kanzure> and when something is defined and looks like a variable, it's probably a block or function
20:19 < ParahSailin> im trying to hook redmine into my single auth system, and this rails shit is completely bewildering
20:19 < kanzure> what is your auth system
20:20 < ParahSailin> just some shit in lua that add an http header with the username before passing request on to an app server
20:20 < kanzure> best case is look for redmine oauth things and then rip out the oauth parts
20:30 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-168-30.lns3.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:31 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-168-30.lns3.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:31 -!- |a| [~|d|@pool-71-253-202-243.nrflva.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20:33 < ParahSailin> yeah ive been derping around with https://github.com/tdvsdv/single_auth for hours trying to figure out wtf is wrong
20:34 -!- |a| [~|d|@pool-71-253-202-243.nrflva.east.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:44 < kanzure> well, give me tracebacks
20:45 < ParahSailin> im not even sure how i would get that sort of thing honestly-- sometimes passenger is putting shit in the nginx error_log, but otherwise useless
20:47 < kanzure> which version of rails?
20:49 < ParahSailin> 3.2.19
20:49 < kanzure> hm!
20:49 < kanzure> have you set config.logger
20:49 < kanzure> also i suggest setting the level to debug
20:51 < ParahSailin> i wouldnt even know where that would be
21:22 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fnnmxwkqrcmvbltz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
21:33 -!- Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:33 -!- Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has quit [Excess Flood]
21:59 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-76-167-105-53.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:30 < ParahSailin> how do these guys even 2space indent
22:36 < dingo_> :set ts=2
22:36 < ParahSailin> smartass
22:37 < dingo_> man i was a webadmin for a mish-mash of rails apps in mid-2000's, it was... troubling
22:37 < dingo_> i knew ruby scripting before then, and it just turned me off, way off, i won't ever write rails, ever
22:37 < dingo_> i debugged so many god damned tracebacks and abstractions i nearly lost my mind
22:38 < dingo_> and the debug is... uhh... the top-level yaml config or some such
22:39 < ParahSailin> it was between trac and redmine, it was decided we needed redmine
22:39 < ParahSailin> so out comes the fucking rails
22:39 < dingo_> ahh
22:39 < dingo_> so you gotta roll your own customizations then
22:40 < ParahSailin> aye, never did any ruby shit
22:40 < ParahSailin> i thought, oh thats pretty much python-- little did i know that the standard library is bizarro land
22:40 < dingo_> the monkey patching across libraries is where it gets difficult, and the namespaces are strange
22:41 < dingo_> i'm a vi guy, so i find it really annoying to have to edit many files for a single workflow of code
22:41 < ParahSailin> you have names popping up everywhere, no idea where they come from
22:41 < dingo_> yeah that, exactly, i have trouble with that, too
22:41 < kanzure> they are all from the str class
22:41 < ParahSailin> theres no import shit at the top to help you out
22:41 < dingo_> if you have time, you probably need to try a basic rails demo app tutorial to understand where the MVC abstractions "go"
22:41 < kanzure> .g ruby magic str class editing
22:41 < yoleaux> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7490680/in-rails-how-to-add-a-new-method-to-string-class
22:41 < dingo_> its just like this layout thing you gotta follow
22:42 < dingo_> might help, might not, hehe
22:42 < ParahSailin> how do i fucking delete a before_action in the main controller, without actually editing the core source
22:42 < ParahSailin> this should be possible with like a monkeypatch right?
22:42 < kanzure> del?
22:42 < kanzure> i mean without the ?
22:42 < kanzure> damn it
22:42 < dingo_> yeah i think you can just del the damn thing from.. somewhere
22:43 < dingo_> theres like a console you can pull up to interact with the site from an irb session somehow
22:43 < kanzure> pry
22:44 < ParahSailin> should i just delete this line, or can i make a plugin that will have the same effect https://github.com/redmine/redmine/blob/master/app/controllers/application_controller.rb#L52
22:45 < ParahSailin> like, include/extend whatever
22:45 < kanzure> you can extend/override their ApplicationController class
22:45 < kanzure> but they might have a preferred idiomatic way of doing that for plugins in their project
22:45 < ParahSailin> and it wont inherit that line?
22:46 < dingo_> maybe you would set it nil?
22:46 < kanzure> it will, but look lower, all of those are just references to class methods
22:46 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-168-30.lns3.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
22:46 < kanzure> so you can override the class methods
22:46 < kanzure> or yes before_filter nil might work
22:46 < ParahSailin> so set them to empty functions?
22:47 < kanzure> well these look relevant to login things, which i assume you are still doing..
22:47 < ParahSailin> or i can delete those functions and ruby wont care that there is nothing there when the thunk happens
22:47 < kanzure> btw there's a skip_before_filter
22:47 < dingo_> i think you need to buy a tweed jacket then you'll figure it out
22:48 < ParahSailin> so extending that thing with skip_before_filter is the most sensible way of deleting those callbacks?
22:49 < kanzure> haha
22:49 < kanzure> "before_filter in your subclass doesn't override the same call in the super class, but they stack after each other instead. It is how the chain of filters work. If you want to skip the filter added in your ApplicationController, you can use skip_before_filter method - see "Filter Chain Skipping" section here in the filters documentation."
22:49 < kanzure> http://api.rubyonrails.org/classes/ActionController/Filters/ClassMethods.html
22:50 < kanzure> 404 hahaha
22:50 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-168-30.lns3.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:50 < kanzure> i think you just need skip_before_filter :each :of :those :from :the :before_filter
22:51 < dingo_> that sounds like good advice
22:51 < ParahSailin> can i have this with type annotations?
22:52 < kanzure> .g "At first glance Ruby doesn't support annotations, but if tilt your head you'll find it does."
22:52 < yoleaux> http://martinfowler.com/bliki/RubyAnnotations.html
22:53 < kanzure> "at first it may seem like ruby isn't anything you would ever want to deal with, but if you just ignore that for a moment, you'll find that it still doesn't."
22:53 < kanzure> isn't.
22:54 < ParahSailin> id rather be c++ bindings
22:55 < ParahSailin> ah heres where skip callbacks is defined https://github.com/rails/rails/blob/0e7744e55e8528c9fc3b88e98d5e5cdd29651eb0/activesupport/lib/active_support/callbacks.rb
22:55 < ParahSailin> theres a delete in there, ok im satisfied
22:56 < ParahSailin> oh wow i found the log file
22:57 < ParahSailin> time to throw printf statements everywhere
22:57 < kanzure> i think you want: logger.debug "wut"
22:58 < ParahSailin> this is the best programming language
22:59 < ParahSailin> written by a mormon
23:00 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-168-30.lns3.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:00 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-168-30.lns3.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:35 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-50-183-58-192.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
23:41 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-50-183-58-192.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:48 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-168-30.lns3.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
23:48 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-168-30.lns3.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:54 < ebowden> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18774923
23:54 < paperbot> ConnectionError: HTTPConnectionPool(host='libgen.org', port=80): Max retries exceeded with url: /scimag/librarian/form.php (Caused by <class 'socket.gaierror'>: [Errno -2] Name or service not known) (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/adapters.py", line 375, in send)
23:55 < ebowden> http://informahealthcare.com/doi/pdf/10.1517/14712598.8.10.1561
23:55 < ebowden> paperbot: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/pdf/10.1517/14712598.8.10.1561
23:55 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/e9b97748cd893495ebaff80904b6edf9.txt
23:57 < ebowden> paperbot: http://www.researchgate.net/publication/23240979_LINGO-1_antagonists_as_therapy_for_multiple_sclerosis_in_vitro_and_in_vivo_evidence
23:58 < ebowden> paperbot: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/pdf/10.1517/14712598.8.10.1561
23:58 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/ca118a70a4960dcfbd220784b851cae2.txt
23:58 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/d19a72d45c83da7e33ae97e33b3c9a15.txt
--- Log closed Sat Aug 16 00:00:18 2014