--- Log opened Tue Sep 16 00:00:07 2014
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03:21 < dbolser> who knows of 'manifestos' for open science?
03:21 < dbolser> i.e. blogs about doing 'blah' and examples of people doing blah to effect x?
03:22 < dbolser> (a bit vague I know, but someone wants to develop a database of 'principles' in open science with content and examples
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06:42 < heath> dbolser: i've heard of something like this before
06:43 < heath> there is literally a thing called the open science manifesto: http://open-science.pen.io/
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08:14 < kanzure> dbolser: panton principles
08:15 < kanzure> panton
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08:33 < dbolser> heath, kanzure: many thanks
08:33 < dbolser> https://titanpad.com/Bjxqo6ikD4
08:55 < archels_> "[...] the Neurophotonics Lab is developing a simple experimental system in which a small network of cultured neurons continuously exchanges information with a virtual environment implemented on a real-time computer; analogous to how a real organism interacts with its environment. It is postulated that the resulting system, a Simple Living Artificial Brain (SLAB), contains the minimal, but essential, components required by a cognitive organism, while b
08:55 < dbolser> how old is that?
08:56 < kanzure> what? why would a 10 neuron neural network be any better in biology than a simulated 10 neuron neural network..
08:56 < kanzure> what network size in their culture
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08:59 < archels_> dbolser: someone is giving a talk on it tomorrow
08:59 < archels_> kanzure: because simulated neurons are so immensely simplified it's laughable
09:01 < kanzure> how many neurons
09:01 < nmz787_i> yeah I could see how farming the processing out to real neurons might enhance the overall system
09:01 < nmz787_i> or do nothing
09:01 < nmz787_i> but that's why they 'postulate' that
09:01 < archels_> I don't know. come to the talk :)
09:02 < archels_> I've known that Kevin Warwick has been trying something similar for years
09:02 < nmz787_i> where?
09:02 < archels_> and I didn't like it back then either when I first heard about it
09:02 < kanzure> ted berg is the traditional name to throw around for "hooking up piles of neurons to flight simulators"
09:03 < kanzure> kevin warwick not so much
09:03 < archels_> Speaker: Noah Russel (Nottingham University)
09:04 < archels_> I guess it would be cool if they could get to work on reprogramming neurons
09:04 < archels_> any desired morphology and electrophysiology on demand
09:05 < kanzure> henry markram's lab was doing some of that by individually poking neurons i think
09:05 < kanzure> with patch clamp to force the network to reconnect
09:05 < kanzure> i mean the would-be network
09:06 < kanzure> uh... wait. that might be a lie.
09:07 < kanzure> i don't recall which paper this was :(
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09:24 < dingo> definitely been on irc too long when you see people you know on bash.org
09:25 < chris_99> haha
09:28 < eudoxia> the other day when it appeared on HN i searched and found kanzure has been immortalized in bash.org
09:28 < eudoxia> http://www.bash.org/?106928
09:29 < chris_99> haha
09:29 < kanzure> that was actually my dad stealing my screenname
09:30 < kanzure> because apparently chatting with a relative over aim was a novel concept
09:30 < kanzure> dunno who submitted it
09:31 < chris_99> maybe your dad is an avid bash.org contributor
09:31 < kanzure> he dead
09:32 < kanzure> also no, wasn't quite the type to be aware of bash.org in his time
09:32 < chris_99> oh sorry :(
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10:21 < kanzure> .title http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
10:21 < yoleaux> 24/192 Music Downloads are Very Silly Indeed
10:24 < delinquentme> dew we have anyone w extensive MD sim experience?
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10:27 < kanzure> i have someone with inorganic chemistry simulation stuff
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10:46 < chris_99> kanzure, do you have a folder of papers on sixth sense type stuff,  such as using electric stim of a tongue to 'see' etc.
10:49 < nmz787_i> i have a folder on radio and biology
10:50 < nmz787_i> i was looking for evidence of organs or experiments that postulated organs that could undertake such communication
10:50 < kanzure> chris_99: not sorted http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/
10:50 < chris_99> cheers
10:50 < nmz787_i> closest I came was finding some stuff on electric eel organs
10:51 < chris_99> not sure i exactly get what you mean nmz787_i, what about the electric eel organs
10:52 < nmz787_i> it's an organ that produces pulses of electricity, which is akin to how we do/have produced radio comms channels
10:52 < nmz787_i> i.e. spark-gap transmitter in the old days
10:53 < chris_99> dumb question how do they not shock themselves
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10:53 < nmz787_i> so i was just studying the anatomy of the organs to see if there could be analogous structures in humans, or if there was enough plasticity in some neural sturctures to synthesize similar pulses
10:54 < nmz787_i> I think it's cause they are the electrode
10:54 < chris_99> aha
10:54 < nmz787_i> their whole body
10:54 < nmz787_i> I could be wrong about that, but it's probably something about relative voltage at the least
10:56 < chris_99> http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-do-electric-eels-gene/ <-- that doesn't really properly explain it, but it postulates
10:59 < eridu> is there any citation manager for linux that will display citation counts from google scholar
10:59 < kanzure> zotero probably does that
10:59 < kanzure> it also toasts your bread
10:59 < eridu> it doesn't seem like it does
11:00 < eridu> it'll import "metadata" but I want live citation counts
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11:39 < nmz787_i> chris_99: I don't seem to have the eel paper in my radio folder, but this looks like it might be the one i was reading years ago.... I remember gleaning that the organs basically were a diode-based voltage multiplier http://jgp.rupress.org/content/42/5/1067.full.pdf
11:39 < chris_99> oh like whats it calld
11:39 < chris_99> cockroft-walton circuit
11:40 < nmz787_i> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1546509808600515?np=y
11:41 < kanzure> "At this year’s annual meeting, Alcor reduced membership dues (for those not receiving discounts) by 10% and also waived the $180/year CMS fee for those with cryopreservation funding at least $20,000 over current minimums. For many members, that means a reduction in membership costs by $240 per year (31% reduction). The CMS waiver should be especially helpful to members young enough to get cheap life insurance. The cost of the extra ...
11:41 < nmz787_i> something like that, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_multiplier
11:41 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/%0A%20Electric%20Organs%0A%20.txt
11:41 < kanzure> ... insurance will be very low for younger members, making the CMS waiver option attractive. Older members may find additional life insurance expensive or impossible to get. Many of these members will instead benefit from the new alternative funding policy. They will be able to use assets such as real estate, 401(k) plans, and bequests to fund up to half of their cryopreservation minimums. Overseas members, who can also enjoy lower costs from ...
11:41 < kanzure> ... the above changes, additionally benefit from the reduction in the overseas surcharge"
11:41 < nmz787_i> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ShoppingCartURL&_method=add&_eid=1-s2.0-S1546509808600515&originContentFamily=serial&_origin=article&_ts=1410892881&md5=7ebed9e19105350a4b3dd5e637ec44b8
11:42 < chris_99> nmz787_i, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockcroft%E2%80%93Walton_generator was the one i was thinking
11:42 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/38a82de081ec2953c6860eb52b2153c3.txt
11:42 < nmz787_i> yep it's listed on the voltage multiplier page with similar circuits
11:43 < chris_99> ah
11:43 < nmz787_i> anyway here is the non-updated folder http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/biological%20radio%20research/
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12:44 < kanzure> paperbot: https://eprint.iacr.org/2014/248.pdf
12:45 < kanzure> "Fine grain Cross-VM Attacks on Xen and VMware are possible"
12:45 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/b94991daae95ec88d1348457a6a1865e.pdf
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13:23 < chris_99> can one simply buy an electode array from somewhere out of interest
13:24 < chris_99> *electrode
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13:27 < kanzure> it's probably in a mcmaster catalog somewhere
13:28 < chris_99> hmm maybe i could get one made somewhere - here's something like what i want https://tcnl.bme.wisc.edu/projects/completed/tdu to put on the tongue
13:29 < HEx2> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/140121/ncomms4026/full/ncomms4026.html
13:29 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fncomms4026
13:32 < chris_99> http://www.zachhoeken.com/mouthbrain
13:33 < nmz787_i> there's the thing out of uPitt
13:33 < nmz787_i> the MD (maybe MD/PhD) who was doing trials there was quite nice
13:34 < chris_99> on tongue elctrodes?
13:35 < nmz787_i> ya
13:35 < chris_99> i'm curious how they got a gold plated pcb
13:35 < chris_99> for the electrodes
13:35 < chris_99> would they plate copper
13:35 < chris_99> i wonder
13:35 < nmz787_i> ask any rapper
13:36 < nmz787_i> they'll tell you how they get theirs
13:36 < chris_99> lol
13:36 < chris_99> i'll give that dude any email see where they fabbed it
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15:14 < chris_99> got a reply apparently it's ENIG
15:14 < chris_99> they used
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15:16 < chris_99> i wonder how dense you could take the array
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16:48 < kanzure> "New Organ, a collective initiative for tissue engineering and regenerative medicine, announced today the initial six teams competing for the New Organ Liver Prize, a global prize competition sponsored by the Methuselah Foundation, a biomedical charity. The prize challenge will award $1,000,000 to the first team that creates a regenerative or bioengineered solution that enables a large animal to live 90 days without native liver function."
16:49 < kanzure> "Stephen Badylak (Team Badylak): A pioneer in biologic scaffolds using extracellular matrix"
16:49 < kanzure> "Eric Lagasse (Team Ectogenesis): Grew mini-livers inside the lymph nodes of mice with liver disease."
16:49 < kanzure> "Takanori Takebe (Team Organ Creative): Created tiny ‘liver buds’ that grew and functioned in mice."
16:49 < kanzure> "Basak Uygun (Team HepaTx): First to report proof-of-principle transplantation of engineered liver grafts."
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17:49 < kanzure> "As someone who works in the industry (but not Ticketmaster) and has spoken frequently to higher ups at TM, people should realize that the majority of the time "handling charges" are a way for performers to generate more revenue from sales while deflecting the bad PR to Ticketmaster. That's one of the services TM provides to their clients (performers/venues). If you're a performer and you want to sell tickets for a face value of "$50", but ...
17:49 < kanzure> ... generate revenue at the $60 or $65/ticket range, you add on some fees and let TM take the hit from the fans for "gouging" them. It's very common."
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18:19 < kanzure> "I've started working with this guy who has a company called lab fellows which is trying to be the Uber or AirBnB of instruments.  He is setting up some stuff like HPLC.    But because these others are moving out of our lab and taking key equipment which we thought we'd have at least for another 6 months, now I have to buy a lot of things at one time.  "
18:19 < kanzure> "I found multiple centrifuges like the one we are losing, ranging dramatically in price (BioSuprlus is $5700 with their "20% discount sale).  Ebay seems to be the best deal but I'm wary of buying some of these because I think there is likely something wrong or we'd end up having to fix it.  "
18:20 < kanzure> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sorvall-RC5C-Plus-Refrigerated-Floor-Centrifuge-w-SLA-1500-Super-Lite-Rotor-/371143816870?_trksid=p2054897.l5670
18:20 < kanzure> http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/181420025975?lpid=82
18:20 < dingo> any startups that is the "something of something", where something's are other startups, is a fail in my book
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18:32 < kanzure> dingo: i dunno man, i see a lot of promise in "uber of portable toilets"
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18:45 < yashgaroth> I'm still a little weirded out re shipping a centrifuge from the east coast
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18:46 < kanzure> yashgaroth: whyso
18:46 < yashgaroth> irrational fear of mixing high-speed equipment and uncaring shipping people
18:47 < yashgaroth> a 40-pound rotor breaking free at 20,000g's and flying toward my face is one of many waking lab nightmares
18:48 < yashgaroth> but the current one jojack has is some 80's 'fuge that only pulls 6,000g's so we do need something
18:49 < yashgaroth> I kinda felt like we only needed a benchtop sized one
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18:52 < kanzure> so it should be disassembled before shiping?
18:52 < kanzure> shipping
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18:54 < yashgaroth> can't really disassemble it, but there's a lot of internal parts all kinda bolted together, some with tight tolerances
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18:55 < kanzure> hm i see
18:56 < kanzure> well. see if someone is willing to do a roadtrip.
18:56 < yashgaroth> anyway this new salk professor is moving in November with "some equipment" so I feel like it'd be best to shop around locally until then
18:57 < yashgaroth> or roadtrip, but fuck what's the point of being in san diego if there's not surplus biotech equipment sitting in every alley
18:57 < kanzure> good point
18:57 < kanzure> don't you guys have a mafia or a gang or something by now
18:57 < yashgaroth> sssh
18:58 < yashgaroth> and it's tough to be all pink panther with a 600 pound heist
18:58 < kanzure> excuses
18:58 < kanzure> so your company borrows time on the equipment?
18:59 < yashgaroth> I can't tell if it's that, or you pay them to run samples for you
18:59 < kanzure> no i mean, were you saying royal we above or my company we
18:59 < kanzure> about needing a benchtop one
19:00 < yashgaroth> the lab, in practical terms, isn't doing enough large-scale stuff to justify a high-speed floor 'fuge
19:00 < yashgaroth> as in, any two-person startup at BTnB
19:01 < yashgaroth> though I don't doubt my own biases are clouding my judgment
19:02 < kanzure> hm okay
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19:04 < yashgaroth> of course there's all kinds of weird edge cases; I don't know what any of the new tenants will be doing, and jojack doesn't know how to parse [what they do] into [how many g's they need to pull]
19:04 < kanzure> does he have any lackeys?
19:05 < yashgaroth> what do you think he has, money?
19:05 < kanzure> are you the only one
19:05 < yashgaroth> yeah p much
19:05 < kanzure> hah
19:05 < kanzure> he's fucked
19:05 < kanzure> i thought you were like, one of at least 10
19:06 < yashgaroth> heh, it's me, a large chasm, and then 20 people who are constantly angry and demanding things for free
19:06 < kanzure> are the takers at least biology folk?
19:07 < yashgaroth> generally, yes; the lack of a fume hood wards off any chem people
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19:12 < kanzure> damn
19:13 < yashgaroth> frankly I have no idea what anyone there really does, and since the two large "companies" are moving out, I'll have even less idea
19:13 < kanzure> if you do things right nobody will know you have done anything at all
19:14 < kanzure> hm i don't really have a centrifuge suggestion for him
19:14 < yashgaroth> I'm gonna pitch this http://surplus.ucsd.edu/Lot.aspx?id=92535
19:15 < kanzure> i like how it's rocking the 2001 copyright date
19:16 < yashgaroth> dude they're an academic reseller, you can't imagine how lazy they are
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19:24 < kanzure> http://dollar.fail/
19:25 < kanzure> .title
19:25 < yoleaux> Open source P2P money
19:25 < kanzure> nice redirect
19:46 < kanzure> not a bad offer https://www.sharelatex.com/github/
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21:44 < kanzure> "However resellers are trying to maximize profits so maybe like $1800-2000? That's some game theory shit, I dunno."
21:44 < kanzure> such advice
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21:52 < yashgaroth> I still think they have an agreement with biosurplus, like "ah this jojack has bid $2001, you'd have to bid...$2001, and perhaps a hundred more *cough*"
21:52 < kanzure> get a mole at biosurplus
21:52 < kanzure> or just walk in and ask
21:52 < kanzure> people don't know how to do opsec
21:52 < yashgaroth> in my mind they're all infinitely corrupt so it shouldn't be hard
21:53 < kanzure> put on a monocle and say you're from biosurplus and ask about your "special discount"
21:53 < yashgaroth> cough loudly while throwing 20s at them and maintaining eye contact
21:53 < kanzure> "i was told there would be special considerations for myself and my bulky friend here"
21:54 < yashgaroth> true, we could literally just muscle in on their racket now that jojack's interested
21:54 < yashgaroth> would be a shame if something were to happen to this glassware [casually drops graduated cylinder]
21:58 < yashgaroth> anyway, off to bed and dreams of shady backroom handoffs for rotary evaporators
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22:01 < kanzure> sleep mode
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23:09 < ebowden> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v16/n1/full/nn.3281.html
23:09 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fnn.3281
23:14 < ebowden> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23572145
23:14 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1126%2Fscisignal.2003945
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--- Log closed Wed Sep 17 00:00:08 2014