--- Log opened Fri Oct 17 00:00:14 2014
00:10 -!- EOF [~EOF@109.162.182.53] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:10 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
00:11 -!- EOF [~EOF@109.162.182.53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:11 -!- EOF [~EOF@109.162.182.53] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:13 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:38 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
00:41 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:45 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
00:47 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:54 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
00:56 -!- sheena [~home@S01067cb21b221706.vf.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:01 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
01:04 -!- EOF [~EOF@109.162.182.53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:04 -!- EOF [~EOF@109.162.182.53] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:06 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:29 -!- d4de^ [~d4de@197.134.5.25] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:33 -!- d4de^^ [~d4de@197.134.5.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
01:33 -!- EOF [~EOF@109.162.182.53] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Leaving"]
01:36 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:51 -!- top4o [~chatzilla@93.152.162.95] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:07 -!- Beatzebub [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
02:21 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:21 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:25 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
02:50 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-utftnefimpoleqme] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:07 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
03:07 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-124-177-12-74.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:07 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
03:08 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:18 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
03:19 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:20 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:23 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:29 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
03:34 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-87-93-90.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:34 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-242-123-36.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:37 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
03:39 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
03:39 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:45 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:46 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
03:47 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
03:47 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:49 -!- Vutral__ [~ss@31.7.56.246] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:49 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:50 -!- Vutral_ [~ss@31.7.56.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
03:52 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has left ##hplusroadmap []
04:16 -!- d4de^ [~d4de@197.134.5.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
04:19 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
04:26 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:30 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
04:32 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
04:33 -!- d4de^ [~d4de@197.160.188.141] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:36 < fenn> kanzure does your laptop make this noise during an attack? http://veekun.com/dex/media/pokemon/cries/26.ogg
04:37 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:44 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:50 -!- pete4242 [~smuxi@boole.london.hackspace.org.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:54 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-124-177-12-74.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:15 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
05:21 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-174-85.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:22 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
05:27 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:30 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-174-85.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
05:47 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:59 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@247-161-11.connect.netcom.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:02 -!- weles [~mariusz@wsip-174-78-132-9.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:26 -!- d4de^ [~d4de@197.160.188.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
06:42 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
06:44 -!- d4de^ [~d4de@197.160.188.141] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:44 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:51 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:01 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-174-85.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:02 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-174-85.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Client Quit]
07:11 -!- sheena [~home@S01067cb21b221706.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
07:20 < kanzure> don't think so
07:27 < fenn> well it should
07:28 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=64349a25 Bryan Bishop: link to ze unrevised floor transcript >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/andreas-antonopolous-canada-senate-bitcoin/
07:28 < kanzure> http://bravenewcoin.com/news/unrevised-floor-transcript/
07:31 < kanzure> man i hate when nick szabo writes like this http://unenumerated.blogspot.com.au/2014/10/transportation-divergence-and.html
07:32 < fenn> you mean writes like a historian?
07:32 < fenn> or anthropologist or something
07:35 < kanzure> essayist
07:42 < kanzure> fenn: give me things to look at or read
07:48 < fenn> wondering if this company ever accomplished anything useful: "Teknowledge’s work in this area focuses on providing knowledge-based tools, applications, and ontologies (knowledge structures) that allow computers to aid humans in interpreting the torrent of data coming at them. Teknowledge is advancing techniques for creating large knowledge systems that can apply problem solving knowledge
07:48 < fenn> harvested from humans about how to utilize the information in a database or an incoming stream of information."
07:49 < fenn> "Teknowledge’s projects often involve software wrappers and models for uniform access to heterogeneous software," etc etc http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/companyProfile?symbol=TEKCQ.PK
07:50 < fenn> i don't have very many tabs open and they dont seem like stuff you're interested in
07:50 < fenn> .title http://www.openbeacon.org/
07:50 < yoleaux> OpenBeacon Active RFID Project - OpenBeacon
07:51 < fenn> this guy has some interesting electronics/sdr projects http://gnumonks.org/users/laforge/
07:52 < kanzure> http://josephpcohen.com/w/academic-torrent-download-tool-atdown/
07:53 < fenn> this sorta hurts to read because he's trying so hard to explain the UFO sighting phenomena in practical engineering terms http://www.lightcrafttechnologies.com/rpi_www/technical/
07:54 < fenn> i am wondering if a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeeman_slower can be used in reverse as a solar pumped laser ion propulsion system
07:55 < fenn> likely the conversion efficiency is too low
07:57 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-utftnefimpoleqme] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
07:57 < kanzure> did you see http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/space/Orbiting%20rainbows%20-%20optical%20manipulation%20of%20aerosols%20and%20the%20beginnings%20of%20future%20space%20construction%20-%20NASA.pdf
07:58 < fenn> oh i meant to read that
07:59 < kanzure> also an index from "niacs" http://www.nasa.gov/content/funded-studies/#.VEEuslRDs-P
08:00 < fenn> supposedly lockheed martin is working on a truck-mounted fusion reactor
08:00 < kanzure> did you see the nuclear battery stuff for-consumer-electronics
08:01 < kanzure> hm http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2014/10/14/bootstrapping-solar-system-civilization
08:02 < fenn> that's been around since the 1960's, what's new about it?
08:02 < fenn> the betavoltaic cell i mean
08:02 < kanzure> what do you mean by around
08:03 < fenn> nm this is totally different
08:04 < fenn> why the fuck do they call it a "battery" - it's a thermal conversion reactor that fits in a shipping container
08:04 < kanzure> lockheed?
08:04 < fenn> upower
08:04 < kanzure> it requires an entire shipping container?
08:04 < fenn> is there any real info besides just this? http://www.upowertech.com/p/technology.html
08:05 < kanzure> there was some comments from people involved, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8195223
08:05 < fenn> also they don't say whether that "MW" is thermal or electrical
08:05 < fenn> is this the thing bill gates was funding?
08:06 < fenn> nm that's "TerraPower" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling_wave_reactor
08:08 < fenn> "Betavoltaics are generators of electrical current, in effect a form of battery, which use energy from a radioactive source emitting beta particles (electrons). A common source used is the hydrogen isotope, tritium. Unlike most nuclear power sources, which use nuclear radiation to generate heat, which then is used to generate electricity (thermoelectric and thermionic sources), betavoltaics use a
08:08 < fenn> non-thermal conversion process; converting the electron-hole pairs produced by the ionization trail of beta particles traversing a semiconductor."
08:08 < fenn> you can also use high voltage linear accelerator grids
08:10 < fenn> i.e. if you have an isotope that emits 33keV beta particles and you capture them with a 32kV grid it's approx 97% efficient
08:10 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:10 < fenn> semiconductors are more rugged i guess
08:16 < fenn> this is a cool idea; beta-pumped laser https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optoelectric_nuclear_battery
08:16 < fenn> i'm not so into the idea of a finely powdered radioactive dust in a high pressure gas container tho
08:17 < fenn> there are other lasing media that wouldn't have such a high risk of containment loss
08:32 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
08:34 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:37 < kjskjskjs> they did say whether the MW were thermal or electrical
08:38 < kjskjskjs> I think they said it was 7MW thermal, 2MW electrical
08:41 < kjskjskjs> wrt Szabo's essay, I think the "network value is O(N²)" thing has been roundly debunked
08:41 < kjskjskjs> O(
08:41 < kjskjskjs> O(N log N) seems to be a much better estimate
08:42 < fenn> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v486/n7403/full/486323b.html
08:43 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2F486323b
08:43 < fenn> kjskjskjs: supposedly 7MW thermal 2MW electrical
08:43  * fenn reads the next line..
08:43 < fenn> come on paperbot
08:44 < kjskjskjs> heh
08:45 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v486/n7403/pdf/486323b.pdf
08:45 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ammwxxiztjohcbsz] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:45 < kanzure> ~fartz~
08:45 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/faf8b2b3a9bee17e5611010ec6ea0c93.txt
08:46 < kanzure> <meta name="access" content="No" />
08:46 < kjskjskjs> ?
08:46 < kanzure> 1) libgen link was to wrong document
08:46 < kanzure> 2) paperbot has no access anyway
08:49 < kjskjskjs> this optoelectronic nuclear battery thing sounds like you could scale it down almost arbitrarily
08:49 < kjskjskjs> well, at least down to under a millimeter
08:50 < kjskjskjs> that might reduce the risk
08:51 < fenn> is this accurate? "One key aspect people negate is that, while a radioactive element might have a half life of 10,000 years, if you concentrate it and have it close enough, the nuclear reactions within it decrease the masses half life to a few years."
08:52 < fenn> kjskjskjs: those tritium keychain thingies work on a similar principle
08:53 < kjskjskjs> yeah
08:53 < kjskjskjs> it's certainly true that you can bombard nuclei with neutrons to break them down
08:54 < fenn> this is in the context of "different ways to decay nuclear waste"
08:54 < kjskjskjs> whether concentrating a radionuclide is sufficient to do that depends on several factors
08:57 < kjskjskjs> including whether it emits neutrons at all in its normal decay, the energy of those neutrons, and the half-life of the nucleus you get when you add a neutron to it
08:58 < kjskjskjs> and you can add neutron moderators and other radionuclides and stuff to improve the situation
08:58 < fenn> i am curious about minimum viable nuclear reactor sizes.. i've seen some photos from the 1950s of research reactors the size of a dorm fridge
08:59 < fenn> considering advances in neutron generation since then it seems the "initiator" part can add a significantly larger fraction to the overall reaction, which should make the whole system much safer and possibly eliminate the need for any moving control elements
08:59 < kjskjskjs> well, the critical mass of plutonium with a neutron reflector is 10 kg, which is a sphere of 10 cm diameter
09:00 < kjskjskjs> but you can decrease that further by feeding it neutrons from, say, tritium
09:01 < kjskjskjs> Fat Man used 6.2 kg of plutonium.  do the same thing in a slow and controlled fashion and you get a power source instead of a bomb
09:01 < fenn> sure but you have to get the tritium from somewhere
09:02 < fenn> same for plutonium
09:02 < kjskjskjs> then there's the question of how much space you need for coolants, heat engines, etc.  I think you could probably build a handheld plutonium fission reactor
09:02 < kjskjskjs> yeah, but that's fuel
09:02 < fenn> tritium and plutonium are not naturally occurring elements
09:02 < kjskjskjs> indeed
09:03 < kjskjskjs> but are you interested in a minimal viable nuclear reactor size, like to power your car with, or are you interested in a minimal viable nuclear self-replicator?
09:04 < fenn> ideally it would be buildable without the cooperation of the current "nuclear club" governments
09:05 < kanzure> what was that positron emission tomography radioisotope handheld generator thingy?
09:05 < kanzure> was that paper found
09:05 < fenn> i'm not sure what "self-replicator" means in this context
09:06 < fenn> i'd like to take some dirt and burn it
09:07 < kjskjskjs> I mean an industrial infrastructure capable of doing that
09:07 < kjskjskjs> supplying all of its own needs
09:07 < kjskjskjs> from dirt
09:07 < fenn> ok well that's a whole ball of worms
09:08 < fenn> beyond the scope of just building a thing
09:08 < kjskjskjs> but if you're okay with taking everything but the fuel from the existing industrial infrastructure you might be okay
09:08 < fenn> i assume the fuel is obtainable from some catalog as well
09:08 < kjskjskjs> not without cooperation from the nuclear club
09:08 < kjskjskjs> you might remember a hooraw a few years back about maraging-steel centrifuge tubes
09:08 < kjskjskjs> (as well)
09:08 < fenn> i ordered some stuff from "chengdu nuclear" but it never arrived.. :(
09:09 < kanzure> "a nuclear battery for mems devices" http://homepages.cae.wisc.edu/~blanchar/res/DE-FG07-99ID13781-Final-Report.pdf
09:09 < kjskjskjs> right now it might be a better bet to do solar instead
09:10 < fenn> that only makes sense for stationary terrestrial applications where there's sun
09:10 < fenn> also you need to own land or at least have permission
09:10 < fenn> for various values of "need to"
09:10 < kjskjskjs> stationary terrestrial applications such as smelting thorium?
09:12 < fenn> Thorium Dioxide - ThO2 - 1 gram collectable element compound sample
09:12 < fenn> $23.00
09:12 < fenn> Buy It Now
09:13 < kanzure> .title http://imgur.com/a/tS9hM
09:13 < yoleaux> Bees, Nature's 3D Printer - Imgur
09:13 < superkuh> Nuclear boyscout style?
09:13 < kjskjskjs> I think post nuclear boyscout this kind of thing got a lot harder
09:14 < kjskjskjs> equatorial desert is pretty cheap at the moment
09:14 < kjskjskjs> but there's no way to conceal building a big solar farm
09:14 < kjskjskjs> not only Landsat but also the Bedouins are going to notice
09:15 < kanzure> oh... "Evidently, these images come from an advert for Dewars honey-whiskey. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwfVFRPCVZY Many *MANY* bee-keepers have commented that they think it's a fake because the bees would have built multiple vertical sheets to fill the mold - they wouldn't  follow the surface topography because that would make for variable sized cells, which would be no good for hatching larvae, which is why they make the cells in the ...
09:15 < kjskjskjs> so you need a strategy for dealing with governments
09:15 < kanzure> ... first place. I also saw a couple of posts from a guy who claims to have been on the special-effects team for the advert - he said that it was all faked...of course we can't know for sure that he wasn't also a fake...but it fits with what the bee keepers are saying."
09:15 < kanzure> "The base was conventionally 3d printed in wax, with a 'light texture' for the bees to build on. So, the comb structure was pre-directed and the bees 'simply' finished the cells off by instinct."
09:15 < kjskjskjs> wax 3-D printing seems increasingly interesting to me
09:16 < fenn> western sahara (southern morocco) is totally uninhabited
09:16 < superkuh> You don't really need the americium or beryllium. A small dense plasma focus can be built as the neutron source.
09:16 < fenn> it also has beach access :)
09:17 < fenn> superkuh: do the neutrons from deuterium fusion have enough energy to initiate a fission reaction?
09:18 < kjskjskjs> noplace is totally uninhabited
09:18 < kjskjskjs> not even the rub' al-khali
09:19 < kjskjskjs> just no permanent habitations
09:19 < superkuh> Yes, fenn.
09:20 < fenn> hmm. "widespread harmattan haze exists 60% of time, often severely restricting visibility" not so good for solar
09:20 < kjskjskjs> fenn: IIRC lower-energy neutrons are better for initiating at least plutonium and U-235 fission
09:21 < superkuh> That is untrue.
09:21 < kjskjskjs> the places that seem most interesting to me for this are most of the sahara, the atacama, and parts of the gobi
09:22 < superkuh> Reference, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boosted_fission_weapon
09:22 < superkuh> "Taking these factors into account, the maximum alpha value for D-T fusion neutrons in plutonium (density 19.8 g/cm³) is some 8 times higher than for an average fission neutron (2.5×109 vs 3×108)."
09:22 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.137.73] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:23 < superkuh> There are desktop scale dense plasma focus devices with per pulse energies of just 0.1 J that achieve hundreds of neutrons per pulse at 20 Hz.
09:25 < FourFire> kjskjskjs, buy desert in australia instead?
09:26 < superkuh> I've spent the last ~5 hours tracking down the source of the extremely cheap ($10) pulse capacitors used in http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/journal/rsi/84/6/10.1063/1.4808309 .
09:26 < FourFire> or is african desert *especially* cheap?
09:26 < superkuh> http://www.elciar.in/power_electric_capacitors.html "MKP - 52"
09:27 < fenn> it may have been a surplus thing
09:27 < kjskjskjs> superkuh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_moderator only mentions U-235, not plutonium
09:28 < kjskjskjs> the boosted fission page you link to does indeed indicate that the opposite is true for Pu
09:28 < FourFire> Good on you all BTW, it's inspiring to read people working to make real things happen
09:29 < kjskjskjs> FourFire: I am not currently attempting to build desert semiconductor fabrication plants
09:29 < kjskjskjs> or solar energy plants
09:29 < FourFire> yes, but you're laying out realistic plans for it
09:29 < kanzure> go away
09:30 < kjskjskjs> kanzure: be nice
09:30 < FourFire> Ok :/
09:30 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@247-161-11.connect.netcom.no] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Huff."]
09:30 < kjskjskjs> you have a good point about Australia
09:30 < kjskjskjs> in the sense that land tenure in Australia is a lot more secure
09:30 < fenn> also they speak english
09:31 < kjskjskjs> yeah, but they're also already part of Five Eyes
09:31 < kjskjskjs> so they have little to gain from an uprooting of the world order
09:31 < fenn> and the illuminati conspiracy
09:31 < kjskjskjs> and much to lose
09:31 < fenn> but.. but.. what about "manna"
09:31 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
09:33 < fenn> http://marshallbrain.com/manna5.htm
09:37 < heath> .title http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=6273
09:38 < yoleaux> the Foresight Institute » Blog Archive » Scaffolded DNA origami improvements advance DNA nanotechnology
09:38 < heath> "The 350-fold drop in the cost of synthesizing DNA staples was perhaps more surprising."
09:38 < heath> paperbot: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/nl502626s
09:38 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1021%2Fnl502626s
09:43 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:44 < heath> .title http://arxiv.org/abs/1409.7489
09:44 < yoleaux> [1409.7489] Recommending Investors for Crowdfunding Projects
09:46 < heath> nanomanufacturing grants: https://www.nsf.gov/funding/pgm_summ.jsp?pims_id=13347&org=NSF
09:47 < heath> past two links all coming from the foresight newsletter
09:47 < heath> ...for anyone interested
09:48 < heath> .title http://phys.org/news/2014-08-breakthrough-imaging-gold-nanoparticles-atomic.html
09:48 < yoleaux> A breakthrough in imaging gold nanoparticles to atomic resolution by electron microscopy
09:49 < nmz787_i> superkuh: what about microwave oven caps?
09:50 < nmz787_i> kanzure: was the list you posted stripped, or just the full list of teams that were working?
09:50 < superkuh> If you had enough. I think it was Steve Conner who made up a parallel bank of them and pushed them to 8 kV DC in pulse discharge service (2.1 KV rated AC).
09:51 < superkuh> But they have internal bleeder resistors.
09:51 < nmz787_i> hmm
09:51 < nmz787_i> I wonder if the electric car companies are bringing economies of scale to make something like that cheaper
09:52 < kanzure> i don't know whether or not it's the full list, sorry
09:53 < kanzure> iirc this was the list that presented at their demoday from the eventbrite link that was floating around
09:53 < nmz787_i> ok cool
09:53 < nmz787_i> didn't know if you did the data sifting work for me
09:54 < fenn> "Polypropylene plus Double Metallised Paper" doesn't sound all that difficult to make
09:54 < heath> .title http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0083622
09:54 < yoleaux> PLOS ONE: An IDEA for Short Term Outbreak Projection: Nearcasting Using the Basic Reproduction Number
09:54 < superkuh> I think it is probably very hard.
09:54 < heath> someone used this model the ebola breakout
09:54 < fenn> i know they use special biaxially stressed polypropylene
09:55 < fenn> ugh who cares about ebola
09:55 < fenn> "people are dying!"
09:55 < nmz787_i> gf said we aren't flying anytime soon bc of ebola
09:55 < fenn> .wa number of deaths per second on earth
09:55 < yoleaux> fenn: Sorry, no result!
09:55 < fenn> blah
09:56 < nmz787_i> lol
09:56 < fenn> 1.78 deaths per second is lower than i expected
09:56 < kanzure> .wa current distribution of human ages
09:56 < yoleaux> kanzure: Sorry, no result!
09:56 < kanzure> .wa number of humans
09:56 < yoleaux> kanzure: Sorry, that command (.wa) crashed.
09:56 < kanzure> hah
09:57 < nmz787_i> kanzure: that imgur is really cool
09:57 < nmz787_i> the bees one
10:00 < fenn> Of the roughly 150,000 people who die each day across the globe, about two thirds—100,000 per day—die of age-related causes.
10:01 < superkuh> The capacitors I was looking for were mostly interesting to me because the papers incorrect called them electrolytics. It took quite a bit of time to figure that error out (http://4hv.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?166632.0).
10:04 < kanzure> fenn: presumably ebola matters more at the moment because old age isn't communicable
10:04 < fenn> well apparently youth is communicable by blood transfusion
10:04 < fenn> in mice at least (why has nobody done this experiment in humans?)
10:05 < fenn> i'd commit 2 weeks of sitting in a chair to saving someone's life
10:05 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
10:07 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:07 < fenn> also why can't the people who survived ebola help with the treatment effort
10:07 < superkuh> That is occurring in at least one instance.
10:07 < fenn> a) they can't get infected so they don't need to do decontamination constantly, and b) they can produce antiviral serum
10:14 < nmz787_i> superkuh: what is this #hvcomm that you speak of?
10:14 < nmz787_i> superkuh: not on freenode?
10:14 < nmz787_i> oh, irc://irc.shadowworld.net/hvcomm
10:14  * superkuh nods.
10:15 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:15 -!- Jaakko919 [~Jaakko@host86-166-253-54.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:15 < superkuh> sync's here on freenode too though.
10:15 < superkuh> In #homecmos
10:15 < nmz787_i> i need to hang out with more HV ppl
10:16 < nmz787_i> I don't have enough people to entertain my conversation about electron and ion physics
10:17 < fenn> they don't make them anymore
10:17 < nmz787_i> hmm, shadowworld.net is giving me a DNS error
10:19 < fenn> superkuh: what's the difference between a "DC" capacitor and an "AC" capacitor?
10:19 < fenn> MKP-52 vs FMD-52
10:20 < nmz787_i> probably can tolerate reverse-bias
10:20 < nmz787_i> unlike the caps that explode when you hook them up backwards
10:20 < nmz787_i> what the reasoning is idk
10:20 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:20 < superkuh> AC heats the dieletric.
10:21 < nmz787_i> electrodes must not be same material
10:22 < superkuh> If you just polarize the dielectric and let it sit like in DC there is less heating and less stress on it.
10:23 < fenn> it seems like the common ratings parameters are missing a dimension or two
10:23 < nmz787_i> superkuh: that closeup cap image, have you tried denoising at all? fft?
10:23 < superkuh> Nope.
10:32 -!- Beatzebub [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:42 < kanzure> hmm.
10:43 < heath> fig 1.0.0 release notes: https://github.com/docker/fig/releases/tag/1.0.0
10:43 < kanzure> "Today’s a big day for Fig, our Docker-based development environment tool: we’re releasing version 1.0. It’s the first and last major version increment, as we’re already hard at work building the functionality Fig provides into Docker itself."
10:48 < kanzure> docker exec is nice.
10:52 < fenn> kanzure btw wrt bees http://www.aganethadyck.ca/
10:53 < kanzure> starting with an existing scaffold is clever but i'm not sure how clever
10:54 < fenn> its just to show what bees will actually do when not working for an advertising/sfx company
10:54 < fenn> i have no idea what that page looks like in a normal browser
10:55 < kanzure> you click an image, it moves a popup thing that makes you think something is broken, then you click another link to go to the for-real-now gallery.
10:55 < nmz787_i> yeah
10:55 < nmz787_i> it's pretty dumb
10:57 < kanzure> http://www.aganethadyck.ca/theplexiglasshouse/index.html
11:01 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a9-DijrLyo
11:01 < yoleaux> WikiHouse Time-Lapse of construction - Final Cut - YouTube
11:02 < kanzure> from http://www.buildingcentre.co.uk/galleries/galleries_crescent.asp (but really from eric hunting)
11:05 < fenn> they skipped a few steps at around 0m12s
11:06 < fenn> "and then plywood pieces magically appear"
11:07 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@8-12.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:07 < gene_hacker> http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2014/10/14/bootstrapping-solar-system-civilization
11:09 < kanzure> gene_hacker: "a nuclear battery for mems devices" http://homepages.cae.wisc.edu/~blanchar/res/DE-FG07-99ID13781-Final-Report.pdf
11:09 < chris_99> is that a tritium based one?
11:10 < kanzure> yes
11:11 < gene_hacker> hey kanzure you wanted some chemistry databases?
11:11 < kanzure> yes
11:11 < gene_hacker> this is pretty neat
11:11 < gene_hacker> http://www.gdb.unibe.ch/gdb/home.html
11:12 < gene_hacker> millions of molecules that we know to be possible
11:12 < kanzure> "GDB-11 enumerates small organic molecules up to 11 atoms of C, N, O and F following simple chemical stability and synthetic feasibility rules."
11:12 < kanzure> i would be more interested in those rules than the actual output
11:14 < kanzure> 970 Million Druglike Small Molecules for Virtual Screening in the Chemical Universe Database GDB-13. Blum L. C.; Reymond J.-L. J. Am. Chem. Soc., 2009, 131, 8732-8733.
11:15 < fenn> sounds less like a database than just program output
11:16 < fenn> gene_hacker: have you run across any free engineering materials databases?
11:16 < gene_hacker> yes
11:16 < gene_hacker> matsci
11:17 < gene_hacker> err matweb.com
11:17 < fenn> any free as in freedom databases?
11:18 < gene_hacker> you can query it without paying any money
11:18 < nmz787_i> paperbot: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/ci600423u
11:19 < fenn> yes i have a copy of it
11:19 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/b4ae0591d2d678c35c9f0e20a2f7a371.pdf
11:19 < gene_hacker> it's a list of SMILES strings, so it's a database in a very bad sense of the word
11:20 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
11:20 < kanzure> gene_hacker: looking for some molecules in particular?
11:21 < fenn> matweb is pretty good, but i can't legally do anything with it that other people can also legally use
11:21 < gene_hacker> yes, ones that can do mechanical things
11:21 < kanzure> have any examples of ones that currently do mechanical things?
11:22 < fenn> most mechanical chemicals aren't organic
11:22 < gene_hacker> stuff that's nice, rigid, and not ridiculously hard to synthesize like diamondoid
11:22 < gene_hacker> you'd be surprised fenn
11:23 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:23 < fenn> structural polymers, lubricants, coatings, seals, what else?
11:24 < gene_hacker> well there are molecular hinges based around acetylene, ferrocenes that are bearing like, helicenes that are spring like, porphyrins with lots of methyl groups that are gear like
11:24 < gene_hacker> and rotaxanes which are really bad prismatic joints
11:25 < fenn> oh you are talking about molecular nanotech
11:25 < gene_hacker> there's molecular gyroscopes, nanocars, nanotrains, and a whole bunch of other fun stuff
11:26 < fenn> do any of them do anything useful?
11:26 < nmz787_i> carbon fiber?
11:26 < fenn> i mean, not to be a party pooper, but there are millions of proteins that do fun and important stuff
11:26 < nmz787_i> nanotubes
11:27 < nmz787_i> fenn: doesn't seem poopy
11:27 < nmz787_i> seems promising if anything to m
11:27 < nmz787_i> me
11:27 < fenn> even drexler recommended would-be nanoengineers to study artificial protein design
11:27 < gene_hacker> yeah they make interesting research projects for chemists
11:28 < kanzure> i don't think many of the protein motifs are well enough understood in isolation for mechanical knowledge stuff
11:28 < kanzure> "this part of the protein is a finger that moves molecules closer to the protein, but only in these ridiculous circumstances regarding the rest of the protein, and when you transplant it to another protein, it does not do those things"
11:28 < fenn> the active site is hard to do, but simple things like rods and hinges has been done
11:29 < gene_hacker> protein design is hard
11:29 < fenn> not necessarily
11:30 < fenn> paper origami is "hard"
11:30 < nmz787_i> http://xkcd.com/1430/
11:30 < nmz787_i> .title
11:30 < yoleaux> xkcd: Proteins
11:32 < gene_hacker> in paper origami we have algorithms for figuring out the fold patterns to fold just about any arbitrary 3d object
11:32 < gene_hacker> proteins not so much
11:32 < fenn> i havent looked at this for a few years but presumably some progress has happened since 2011
11:34 < gene_hacker> in protein design?
11:34 < gene_hacker> oh no, we've barely made any progress
11:34 < kanzure> i haven't seen a good paper about things from proteins that we should be stealing
11:34 < kanzure> like this thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_three_secretion_system
11:34 < gene_hacker> which is why working with proteins isn't in my job description
11:39 < kanzure> such an empty folder http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/protein-engineering/
11:39 < fenn> weird, tatiana gelfand randomly shows up on the wikipedia page about protein structural motifs
11:40 < fenn> anyway you can use these rules to define simple protein structures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_motif
11:40 < fenn> i'm sorry i dont remember the paper; it was a husband and wife team with an asian name, i think the paper was in nature
11:41 < fenn> the artificial proteins exhibited increased temperature stability
11:43 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
11:46 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
11:53 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:55 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:57 < kanzure> http://scholar.google.com/scholar?as_ylo=2013&q=rational+protein+design&hl=en&as_sdt=0,44
11:59 -!- _0bitcount [~big-byte@81.61.34.185.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:03 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@8-12.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
12:09 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@8-12.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:16 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
12:20 -!- |b| [~|d|@ip68-107-37-158.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:21 -!- Jingo_Fett [~|d|@ip68-107-37-158.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
12:39 -!- top4o [~chatzilla@93.152.162.95] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 32.0.3/20140923175406]]
12:41 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
12:43 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:55 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@8-12.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
12:59 -!- weles [~mariusz@wsip-174-78-132-9.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
13:09 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@8-12.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:12 < kjskjskjs> superkuh: are you sure they all have internal bleeder resistors?  I'm pretty sure the last one I recovered had an external bleeder resistor
13:14 < kjskjskjs> fenn: can I have a copy of matweb?
13:15 < kjskjskjs> (of course you could have both internal and external bleeder resistors but it seems more likely that the external one was because there was no internal one)
13:19 -!- _0bitcount [~big-byte@81.61.34.185.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:38 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@8-12.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
13:42 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@8-12.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:04 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:10 < kanzure> hmm
14:16 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@8-12.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
14:18 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
14:19 < kanzure> i wonder how good that autopilot software is
14:19 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
14:20 < drethelin> kanzure: I'm excited for it
14:20 < drethelin> een though it'll probably be years before I have a car that has it
14:20 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
14:21 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:21 < kanzure> no i meant for quadcopter drones
14:21 < kanzure> the p4xe stuff from the other day
14:28 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:33 -!- ryankarason is now known as rak[1]
14:36 < kanzure> "briefcase biotec (AKA kilobaser) was one of team 2014,"
14:36 < kanzure> cc nmz787_i
14:40 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
14:40 < kanzure> "Of course, it's first and foremost a Synbio accelerator, but that includes all dimensions of synbio: wetware, software, hardware. An incubator might not cut it, but Kilobaser is a microfluidic DNA synthesiser; a clear fit."
14:41 < kanzure> (yes but you paid people who lie about their understanding of open source licensing)
14:42 < kanzure> oh well
14:43 -!- Beatzebub [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
14:54 -!- Beatzebub [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:58 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:02 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@8-12.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:07 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
15:09 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:18 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
15:21 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:26 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.137.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
15:34 < kanzure> http://mises.org/document/3490/Defending-the-Undefendable
15:34 < kanzure> "Not only does he defend prostitutes, pimps, counterfeiters, ticket scalpers, slumlords, blackmailers, libelors, stripminers, letterers, and scabs (among others), he actually has the temerity to call them heroes!  Block even has the gall to challenge the most enduring shiboleth of higher education, academic freedom."
15:38 < kanzure> oh, http://library.mises.org/books/Walter%20Block/Defending%20the%20Undefendable.pdf
16:03 -!- Jaakko919 [~Jaakko@host86-166-253-54.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
16:24 < ParahSailin_> walter block is a creationist though
16:26 < kanzure> after reading this book for a bit, i'll just say he has the right general ideas, but his explanations are terrible
16:26 < kanzure> and wrong
16:29 < ParahSailin_> no, im sorry its bomb murphy who is the creationist
16:29 < ParahSailin_> bob
16:36 < kjskjskjs> is the Walter E. Grinder thanked in the dedication related to the John Grinder who cofounded Neuro-Linguistic Programming?
16:37 < kanzure> no idea.
16:51 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
16:58 < kanzure> for some reason i remember ripple from something pre-2008 but i don't have any evidence that i knew about it https://classic.ripplepay.com/ http://archive.ripple-project.org/Main/HomePage
16:58 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:04 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-124-177-12-74.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:07 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:b12b:80d2:f3db:2b65] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:09 < kjskjskjs> probably a different ripple
17:09 < kjskjskjs> I mean the current ripple is pretty blockchain-based
17:10 < kanzure> current ripple is a fork or derivative of 2004 ripple
17:10 < kanzure> there's certainly a ledger that is distributed to ripple nodes, but i don't think it's fair to call that a blockchain
17:11 -!- helleshin [~talinck@66-161-138-110.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
17:11 < kanzure> ("blockchain" so far seems to refer to systems like the bitcoin blockchain, and not just "blocks of receipts from any system")
17:13 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@8-12.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
17:15 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
17:16 -!- helleshin [~talinck@66-161-138-110.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:27 < kjskjskjs> maybe I'm mistaken
17:27 < kjskjskjs> but I thought it was a globally replicated ledger that used proof-of-work to make it computationally infeasible to repudiate past transactions?
17:29 < kanzure> "For configuration, we separate the application and the config files into two separate containers. The config files are provided through a shared volume to the application. This model is definitely odd. However, it's allowed us to decouple our application and our configuration and to swap out configurations. With this in mind, it's more declarative because we specify "run this application with this configuration unit" rather than "here's how ...
17:29 < kanzure> ... you get yourself started". See the Radial project for our inspiration[1] http://radial.viewdocs.io/docs "
17:29 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
17:30 < kanzure> kjskjskjs: oh, not at all, no
17:30 < kanzure> kjskjskjs: see this section https://wiki.ripple.com/Consensus#More_Details
17:30 < kanzure> "The basic rule is that if 50% of the nodes on your UNL, including you, vote for a transaction, you include it. If not, you don't. After a few seconds, the threshold raises from 50% to 60% -- failure to agree is agreement to fail -- and continues to rise. This ensures that the voting on a transaction doesn't just bounce around 50% for an extended period of time."
17:31 < kanzure> ripple doesn't use proof-of-work for its consensus
17:34 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:39 -!- weles [~mariusz@c-71-234-3-169.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:47 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ammwxxiztjohcbsz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
17:50 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
17:56 -!- d4de^ [~d4de@197.160.188.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
18:00 < kjskjskjs> instead it uses voting among unique validators you accept: "People will only choose entities as validators who are not anonymous or have a reputation."
18:02 < kjskjskjs> to me this sounds like a recipe for hard forks in the case of something like the current Griesa Argentina NML controversy
18:04 < kanzure> "If the client can get local root privileges (e.g. CVE-2014-4699, CVE-2014-4014, CVE-2014-0196, unix-privesc-check, many more) they can then escape the docker container."
18:04 < kanzure> kjskjskjs: what is this controversy a controversy about?
18:06 < kjskjskjs> Argentina's 2001 sovereign debt default
18:07 < kjskjskjs> NML persuaded a court to prohibit US banks from delivering Argentina's payments on our renegotiated debt to our creditors unless it also makes payments on non-renegotiated debt
18:07 < kanzure> ah yes
18:07 < kanzure> so, the thing about ripple is that they made a huge mistake by marketing towards bitcoin's audience
18:07 < kanzure> they even literally used the phrasing "bitcoin 2.0" back a few years ago
18:07 < kanzure> but realistically they are more like a competitor to swift or credit networks or something
18:08 < kjskjskjs> well
18:08 -!- weles [~mariusz@c-71-234-3-169.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
18:08 < kanzure> their gateways and ious are very familiar to banks and those sorts of customers, because the product is basically what banks are used to using anyway
18:08 < kjskjskjs> except that in a situation like this, ripple is more vulnerable to post facto expropriation by states
18:09 < kanzure> absolutely, but so is traditional banking infrastructure i think, so that's not really something ripple's customers care about
18:09 < kanzure> i have to admit that there seems to be very few reasons to bother with their "consensus" algorithm
18:09 < kjskjskjs> well, up to some point, yes
18:09 < kjskjskjs> but only up to some point
18:10 < kjskjskjs> I mean that is why Venezuela repatriated its overseas gold
18:10 < kjskjskjs> I guess if you're using ripple instead of swift, rather than ripple instead of gold, that's less of a problem
18:10 < kanzure> right.
18:11 < kanzure> but it's just sort of a non-statement almost.. i mean.. many of the benefits that you get with bitcoin through decentralized consensus are just, not present in ripple. so why bother with ripple's implementation?
18:11 -!- d4de^ [~d4de@197.160.188.141] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:12 -!- weles [~mariusz@c-71-234-3-169.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:12 < kanzure> they could have centralized half of it or something
18:12 < kjskjskjs> ripple's account of how clients decide who owns ripple money seems suspiciously similar to me to how people decide which religion is the true religion
18:13 < kanzure> gossip?
18:13 < kjskjskjs> no, consensus of the people who have a reputation in your eyes
18:14 < kjskjskjs> gossip is a fine way to distribute transactions as long as its scalability limit doesn't hit
18:15 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-124-177-12-74.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:15 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-124-177-12-74.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:15 < kjskjskjs> it doesn't help you decide which transactions are valid
18:16 < kanzure> i haven't really considered all the possible failure modes of ripple too thoroughly
18:17 < kjskjskjs> I wonder if the Bitcoin ASIC companies have produced crises at NVIDIA and ATI
18:17 < kanzure> well, they certainly experienced spikes in graphics card demand back in 2011 and 2012
18:18 < kanzure> but iirc not long enough for them to notice correctly or to react and take advantage of it
18:18 < kjskjskjs> right, I wonder if they experienced whiplash
18:18 < kanzure> it would be really interesting to get stats from them about when they recognized the trend and what they were thinking
18:19 < kanzure> versus what the market forces were producing, and whether or not they had an accurate understanding of the market forces for scrypt/sha256 hashing
18:20 < kanzure> on a related note i wonder if there's an excess of low-priced high-end gpus now
18:20 < kjskjskjs> I wonder too
18:20 < kjskjskjs> I recently learned that the GPU in my cellphone is the same one in the Pi
18:20 < kjskjskjs> which has been thoroughly documented
18:21 < kanzure> that's unfortunate, they should really tell you nice things like that upfront
18:22 < kjskjskjs> the girl who sold it to me didn't even know the PIN for the avast! anti-theft software installed on it
18:28 < kjskjskjs> much less what kind of GPU it had
18:28 < heath> music https://splice.com/explore
18:28 < kjskjskjs> then we started making out
18:28 < kjskjskjs> I need to start uploading my traces to openstreetmap
18:30 < kanzure> jgarzik pgp attestation stuff http://gtf.org/garzik/bitcoin/psa3-bitpay.txt
18:44 -!- snuffeluffegus [~snuff@5.150.254.180] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:54 < kanzure> radio interface layer constants https://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/dom/system/gonk/ril_consts.js
18:55 < kanzure> 117 this.REQUEST_CDMA_SMS_BROADCAST_ACTIVATION = 94;
18:55 < kanzure> 118 this.REQUEST_CDMA_SUBSCRIPTION = 95;
18:56 < kanzure> https://www.codeaurora.org/cgit/quic/la/platform/hardware/ril/tree/include/telephony/ril.h
19:02 < nmz787>  ATI==AMD so I doubt they care much about bitcoin
19:03 < nmz787> kjskjskjs: I thought the GPU on the rpi was a binary blob and super closed and obfuscated info
19:10 -!- pete4242 [~smuxi@boole.london.hackspace.org.uk] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:14 -!- eridu [~eridu@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:24 -!- realzies [~pinky@unaffiliated/realazthat] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
19:50 -!- weles [~mariusz@c-71-234-3-169.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20:05 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20:06 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:07 -!- |b| is now known as JingoFett
20:28 < kjskjskjs> nmz787: at first, yes, but then eventually they documented the GPU
20:28 < kjskjskjs> I don't know if they released source for their OpenGL implementation for it. I doubt it
20:30 < kjskjskjs> but there is like a free assembly-language FFT for the GPU for example
20:32 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-50-137-46-240.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:32 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@CPE-124-179-250-49.lns3.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:34 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-124-177-12-74.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20:43 -!- night is now known as night|club
20:57 -!- eridu [~eridu@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20:58 -!- JingoFett [~|d|@ip68-107-37-158.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:35 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:b12b:80d2:f3db:2b65] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:37 -!- Vutral__ [~ss@31.7.56.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
21:38 -!- Vutral_ [~ss@31.7.56.246] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:56 -!- |a| [~|d|@ip68-107-37-158.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:00 -!- snuffeluffegus [~snuff@5.150.254.180] has quit [Quit: May the force be with you. Always.]
22:12 -!- TRUSTMEIMHAPPY [325ddc75@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.93.220.117] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:14 -!- TRUSTMEIMHAPPY [325ddc75@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.93.220.117] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
22:26 -!- sheena [~home@S01067cb21b221706.vf.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:30 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:31 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
22:32 -!- Viper168_ is now known as Viper168
22:59 -!- eridu [~eridu@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:17 -!- |a| is now known as JingoFett
23:56 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-50-137-46-240.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 30.0/20140605174243]]
--- Log closed Sat Oct 18 00:00:15 2014