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07:35 < kanzure> oof
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08:00 < kanzure> where did cluckj go?
08:01 < kanzure> .title http://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/ftdi-driver-kills-fake-ftdi-ft232/msg536298/#msg536298
08:01 < yoleaux> FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232?? - Page 38
08:02 < kanzure> followup https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8503625
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08:18 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone.
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09:25 < kanzure> fenn: yes i think your criticism from yesterday is correct regarding the separate values. i can't see a way to fix that, so i'll drop that idea.
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09:33 < kanzure> here's something ancient: opml 1.0 spec http://dev.opml.org/spec1.html
09:39 < dingo> hmm all this for outlines
09:39 < kanzure> opml turned into an rss aggregation bookmark format
09:39 < dingo> when i was in gradeschool outlines were a new big idea
09:40 < dingo> before rough drafting you would have to outline a paper
09:42 < kanzure> hmm i need this merged i think https://github.com/hashicorp/terraform/pull/232
09:54 < kanzure> https://github.com/scipr-lab/libsnark
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10:06 < sheena> nmz787_i: playing with tesseract and it sucks.. am i missing something?
10:06 < sheena> m puppy mm! mm m haw- m p,“ .y M, m b you Lullr wilh cam and mm wuum‘ m m u
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10:12 < chris_99> tesseract worked well for me iirc
10:13 < chris_99> you may have set up the characters it looks for wrongly
10:13 < chris_99> or something
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10:14 < kanzure> sheena: also, what version of tesseract is it?
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10:15 < nmz787_i> sheena: what file format is it using now?
10:15 < sheena> 3.something
10:15 < sheena> tiff
10:16 < sheena> im wondering if image quality is a big issue
10:16 < nmz787_i> i was doing PDFs reliably
10:16 < nmz787_i> which were just images
10:16 < sheena> cause its coming from video, so while human readable, it may not be pixel readable?
10:16 < nmz787_i> try switching to PNG
10:16 < nmz787_i> I can't remember which worked better
10:16 < nmz787_i> (the answer is in this channel's logs, but I can't grep them now)
10:17 < nmz787_i> should be around august 27
10:18 < nmz787_i> here it is http://gnusha.org/logs/2014-08-17.log
10:19 < nmz787_i> "21:38  * nmz787 found that tesseract like's tiff much much more than png"
10:19 < nmz787_i> "21:41 < kanzure> and approximately how much better 21:41 < nmz787> infinitely better"
10:19 < chris_99> it shouldn't be that bad though, should it, regardless of the img format
10:19 < nmz787_i> it was for me that day
10:19 < chris_99> oh weird
10:19 < nmz787_i> like not working at all, to working great
10:20 < chris_99> wonder why that is
10:20 < nmz787_i> i presume it was some compression artifact, or if not, just a broken file parser
10:20 < chris_99> mmm
10:20 < nmz787_i> (since I thought they were uncompressed png)
10:21 < chris_99> don't suppose anyones used libnss per chance?
10:22 < sheena> so if tiff is correct... do i assume my video frames are of inadequate quality?
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10:22 < chris_99> what image did you use btw, i can test it out 'ere if you want, as i should setup tesseract anyway
10:24 < sheena> you want a sample image to play with?
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10:26 < chris_99> have you got the one that did "m puppy mm! mm....
10:27 < sheena> http://imgur.com/yVG6fAx
10:27 < sheena> let me know if you want it directly or something
10:28 < sheena> appears to be no difference between png and tiff
10:28 < chris_99> i'll have a play and see how well it goes, cheers
10:29 < sheena> ty
10:30 < nmz787_i> sheena: looks like maybe a bit too far zoomed out, and also might not help that the pages aren't as flat as they could be
10:30 < chris_99> i bet the fact the page is bent doesn't help though
10:30 < nmz787_i> also lighting is not even
10:30 < chris_99> ideally you should use a scanner i guess
10:30 < chris_99> and push it down
10:30 < nmz787_i> you could try thresholding the image first
10:30 < nmz787_i> also cropping out the non-text areas
10:31 < nmz787_i> sheena: ROI section here http://docs.opencv.org/trunk/doc/py_tutorials/py_core/py_basic_ops/py_basic_ops.html
10:31 < sheena> scanning isnt a realistic option. woudl rather just video and crop without OCR if needed.
10:31 < sheena> roi?
10:31 < JayDugger> You also might get better results by placing a white or black piece of heavy paper behind the page you photograph.
10:31 < nmz787_i> region of interest
10:32 < sheena> yeah, i would set it up with a tripod and do it against a wall with shady sun i think, for "real"
10:33 < nmz787_i> sheena: http://opencvpython.blogspot.com/2012/06/fast-array-manipulation-in-numpy.html
10:33 < nmz787_i> err
10:33 < nmz787_i>  http://opencvpython.blogspot.com/2013/05/thresholding.html
10:34 < JayDugger> Project Naptha's tesseract option gives pretty poor OCR results.
10:34 < nmz787_i> you can also do simpler thresholding with slicing notation
10:35 < nmz787_i> d = numpy.array([1,2,3,4,5,6,7])
10:35 < nmz787_i> d[d>4]
10:35 < nmz787_i> array([5, 6, 7])
10:35 < nmz787_i> so d[d>4]=0  yields array([1, 2, 3, 4, 0, 0, 0])
10:35 < JayDugger> Excuse me, on that test image, Project Naptha's tesseract option gave pretty poor (unusable) OCR results.
10:36 < nmz787_i> i thought tesseract was a google project
10:36 < nmz787_i> this is what I used sheena https://code.google.com/p/tesseract-ocr/
10:36 < sheena> th2 = cv2.adaptiveThreshold(img,255,cv2.ADAPTIVE_THRESH_MEAN_C,\            cv2.THRESH_BINARY,11,2)
10:36 < sheena> this looks like what i need?
10:36 < nmz787_i> adaptive could work well for those sun streaks
10:37 < nmz787_i> seems dumb that that blog is using matplotlib to show images
10:37 < sheena> i just took tesseract from the repos..
10:37 < sheena> tesseract 3.03, leptonica-1.70,  libgif 4.1.6(?) : libjpeg 8d : libpng 1.2.50 : libtiff 4.0.3 : zlib 1.2.8 : webp 0.4.0
10:38 < nmz787_i> https://code.google.com/p/tesseract-ocr/wiki/ReadMe
10:38 < nmz787_i> "Tesseract is available directly from many Linux distributions. The package is generally called 'tesseract' or 'tesseract-ocr'"
10:38 < nmz787_i> have you been using tesseract on the command prompt?
10:39 < nmz787_i> sheena: anyway I'd use the cv2.imshow method for displaying an image over matplotlib for testing http://docs.opencv.org/trunk/doc/py_tutorials/py_gui/py_image_display/py_image_display.html#py-display-image
10:39 < chris_99> i get pretty much the same kind of result sheena
10:41 < nmz787_i> hmm, I wonder if there's a server online that has a web interface to opencv... like some iPython notebook or something
10:41 < sheena> OpenCV Error: Assertion failed (src.type() == CV_8UC1) in adaptiveThreshold, file /build/buildd/opencv-2.4.8+dfsg1/modules/imgproc/src/thresh.cpp, line 796       Traceback (most recent call last):   File "videotoimage.py", line 16, in <module>       cv2.THRESH_BINARY,11,2)     cv2.error: /build/buildd/opencv-2.4.8+dfsg1/modules/imgproc/src/thresh.cpp:796: error: (-215) src.type() == CV_8UC1 in function adaptiveThreshold
10:41 < sheena> nmz787_i: yes on command prompt.
10:42 < nmz787_i> sheena: most likely you need to convert color spaces
10:42 < nmz787_i>  CV_8UC1 is a colorspace macro/variable name
10:42 < sheena> nmz787_i: i dont understand.. do i need to add code?
10:42 < nmz787_i> so you need to conver the image to it first so it passes src.type() == CV_8UC1
10:44 < sheena> ... how?
10:44 < nmz787_i> probably something like image = cv2.cvtColor(img,cv2.COLOR_BGR2GRAY)
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10:45 < nmz787_i> or possibly  new_frame = np.array(frameRoi , dtype = np.uint8)
10:45 < nmz787_i> or possibly image = cv2.cvtColor(img,cv2.COLOR_RGB2GRAY)
10:45 < nmz787_i> (note BGR vs RGB)
10:46 < sheena> might need to crop first for it to work better..
10:46 < nmz787_i> you will def need a grey image to do thresholding I think
10:46 < sheena> it wowrked
10:46 < sheena> i mean
10:46 < nmz787_i> nice
10:46 < sheena> the code ran successfully
10:46 < sheena> and the images are thresholded somehow
10:50 < sheena> im trying to use a cropped image to see if it makes a difference, and getting this error:     img = cv2.cvtColor(img,cv2.COLOR_BGR2GRAY)    cv2.error: /build/buildd/opencv-2.4.8+dfsg1/modules/imgproc/src/color.cpp:3737: error: (-215) scn == 3 || scn == 4 in function cvtColor
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10:51 < sheena> how is it differetnfromthe one i was doing inside the video-to-image code?
10:51 < nmz787_i> are you cropping wrong?
10:51 < sheena> lol i dunno
10:51 < sheena> im using a GUI (gimp)
10:51 < nmz787_i> try displaying the image
10:51 < nmz787_i> ?
10:51 < sheena> just wanted to see if it made a difference teothe thresholding
10:51 < nmz787_i> oh
10:51 < nmz787_i> i meant to crop in opencv
10:51 < nmz787_i> but ok
10:51 < sheena> i know
10:51 < nmz787_i> gimp should work
10:52 < sheena> but i just wanted to see if iti will work?
10:52 < sheena> but the code... is missing something?
10:52 < sheena> about cvtColor?
10:52 < nmz787_i> is it not a color image when you export from gimp?
10:53 < sheena> yeah, should it not be?
10:54 < nmz787_i> well you're telling opencv to convert a color image to grey... so if it is already grey then it isn't color and doesn't know what to do?
10:54 < nmz787_i> i guess
10:54 < sheena> when i take that line out
10:54 < sheena>   File "imageconverttest.py", line 7, in <module>      cv2.imwrite('frame_%d.png' % i, to_file)    NameError: name 'i' is not defined
10:54 < sheena> i get that
10:54 < sheena> i is for the file writing stuff?
10:54 < sheena> oh
10:54 < sheena> i=0
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10:55 < nmz787_i> that is just a python string formatting thing for inserting the image number into the file name
10:55 < sheena> yeah
10:55 < sheena> i got it
10:55 < nmz787_i> you could take it out and replace %d with whatever hardcoded text
10:56 < nmz787_i> it would be easier for you to just cv2.imshow(img) though
10:56 < nmz787_i> oh
10:56 < nmz787_i> maybe not
10:56 < nmz787_i> since you need to give it to tesseract
10:56 < sheena> doesnt seem to be any difference with the cropped vs uncroopped to my eye
10:56 < sheena> tesseract runnign tnow
10:57 < sheena> naw, no better
10:58 < nmz787_i> after thresholding?
10:58 < sheena> ok. imgoing to do two things. im going to try a higher quality video (better set up, now that i know the stripping-still-images part works) and play with the editing stuff in opencv. i will come back when i have more things to ask :) gotta go feed the sheep now, tho!!
10:58 < sheena> right, no better after thresholding, for tesseract
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10:58 < nmz787_i> sheena: you may be able to increase the video resolution with opencv
10:59 < sheena> oooh i will check that too. ty
10:59 < nmz787_i> i.e. VideoCapture cap(0); cap.set(CV_CAP_PROP_FRAME_WIDTH, 640); cap.set(CV_CAP_PROP_FRAME_HEIGHT, 360);
10:59 < chris_99> http://vbridge.co.uk/2012/11/05/how-we-tuned-tesseract-to-perform-as-well-as-a-commercial-ocr-package/
10:59 < chris_99> may be of interest
10:59 < sheena> thanks again :)
10:59 < JayDugger> nmz787_i, how does opencv increase video resolution?
11:00 < nmz787_i> JayDugger: it depends if the camera supports it
11:01 < nmz787_i> v4l feature on linux at least
11:01 < JayDugger> So it does that by controlling the hardware, and not by processing an existing image?
11:02 < nmz787_i> i believe so
11:03 < JayDugger> Got it. Thank you.
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11:34 < kanzure> aws documentation is so weird, "Blah, blah, blah. Please note that the preceding 12 paragraphs do not apply since 2008, or if you are using VPC in nodocs mode."
11:47 < nmz787_i> fenn: http://nbviewer.ipython.org/github/thsant/scipy4cv/blob/master/09._Structure_from_motion.ipynb
11:54 < justanotheruser> RIP "Here Comes Honey Boo Boo"
12:03 < nmz787_i> huh, I haven't seen this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkxTgOZ3ons&feature=youtu.be
12:03 < nmz787_i> .title
12:03 < yoleaux> Springfield's Most Wanted (1995) - YouTube
12:04 < dingo> kanzure: see this? https://github.com/schematics/schematics
12:10 < dingo> i think you can cancel Modelo :)
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12:12 < nmz787_i> so it converts a dict to a clasS?
12:13 < nmz787_i> i would have called it dict_2_class_validator
12:15 < nmz787_i> who would have thought expensive software docs would suck
12:16 < nmz787_i> as i recall, stallman was pissed about a printer driver lacking source/API... but this has API with horrible docs :/
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12:42 < kanzure> dingo: isn't that the thing i showed you the other day :p
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12:43 < seba-> hey!
12:43 < seba-> :)
12:43 < seba-> kanzure, lets develop an ebola cure
12:46 < kanzure> okay, you go find some ebola samples and report back to me ok?
12:47 < seba-> kanzure, no really :D i've set up a page, www.ebola.si
12:47 < seba-> lol
12:52 < dingo> kanzure: you showed me https://github.com/schematics/schemalchemy not schematics/schemtaics :)
12:53 < dingo> NOW i understand haha
12:57 < kanzure> seba-: i am also being serious
12:57 < kanzure> dingo: heh
12:57 < seba-> kanzure, oh ok, well we have a connection with a spanish guy, which has a BSL4 lab and play with ebola
12:57 < seba-> *plays
13:00 < nmz787_i> heh, I found some ayurvedic ebola prevention site recently
13:00 < nmz787_i> you could get him to test that
13:00 < kanzure> what does "have a connection" mean
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13:07 < seba-> kanzure, hm, a professor which i work with, was with this guy on a postdoc and we wrote already a mail and he replied that when we'll have something he can see what he can do :-) it's not much, but it's a start
13:07 < seba-> we just started a week ago
13:09 < nmz787_i> so I haven't kept up on ebola news, why is it more interesting to work on than a more widespread disease?
13:10 < nmz787_i> isn't there like 30 million more cases of flu or something compared to ebola cases since ebola was discovered
13:11 < seba-> nmz787_i, because ebola is going up exponentially
13:11 < nmz787_i> flu: "Worldwide, these annual epidemics are estimated to result in about 3 to 5 million cases of severe illness, and about 250 000 to 500 000 deaths."
13:11 < nmz787_i> ebola is like 3000 cases EVER
13:11 < seba-> nmz787_i, just in this outbreak there are 10k cases
13:11 < seba-> and it's going up exponentially
13:12 < dingo> plus white people are being affected lately
13:12 < dingo> thats huge news
13:12 < seba-> well it's the first time ever that ebola hit an urban area
13:12 < seba-> previously it was just in rural areas and as such it was easily contained
13:12 < nmz787_i> you mean Lagos?
13:13 < seba-> lagos was a very minor outbreak
13:13 < seba-> monrovia, conarky and freetown
13:13 < seba-> lagos had just one case that it wasn't known it was ebola from day 0
13:14 < seba-> and it spread to 19 others in the end
13:14 < seba-> :)
13:14 < seba-> but he arrived in the hospital with advanced symptoms
13:14 < seba-> not just fever hehe
13:15 < seba-> we were very lucky insofar
13:16 < nmz787_i> i wonder if govts are slow to do anything other than defend against infection in hopes they reduce military offensives
13:17 < seba-> nmz787_i, no idea, but i decided to do something ! :-)
13:18 < seba-> i'm trying now to expand haha
13:19 < seba-> currently it's just me and two professors, but i'm trying now to persuade a few more students, i think i'm being successful with 3 others
13:19 < seba-> lol
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14:09 < nmz787_i> paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1749-6632.1962.tb54121.x/pdf
14:09 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/206338e15e860f93156b5a1836ed5a02.txt
14:11 < nmz787_i> paperbot: http://dx.doi.org/10.1111/j.1749-6632.1962.tb54121.x
14:12 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/fc9d978dec3cddd1157a09bc6bbba1fc.txt
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15:33 < kanzure> https://github.com/NullHypothesis/exitmap "exitmap is a fast and extensible Python-based scanner for Tor exit relays. Modules implement tasks which are then run over all exit relays or a subset thereof. If you have a background in functional programming, think of exitmap as a map() interface for Tor exit relays. In practice, exitmap is useful to monitor the reliability and trustworthiness of exit relays."
15:41 < Qfwfq> Malicious binary patching exit relays detected via exitmap: http://www.leviathansecurity.com/blog/the-case-of-the-modified-binaries/
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15:44 < kanzure> python-based transparent proxy https://github.com/NullHypothesis/obfsproxy
15:46 < Qfwfq> Open-access papers on internet censorship: http://www.cs.kau.se/philwint/censorbib/
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15:52 < kanzure> hehe china apparently refuses to block s3 https://petsymposium.org/2014/papers/paper_68.pdf
15:54 < Qfwfq> "unwilling to annoy regular users" "blocks Facebook"
15:55 < nmz787_i> I really hate google.
15:55 < nmz787_i> search engine at least
15:55 < nmz787_i> when is someone going to write a better engine?
15:55 < nmz787_i> it won't search python "+=" method
15:55 < nmz787_i> even though they're double qoutes
15:56 < nmz787_i> can someone please recomend a search engine with API like from the 90s?
15:56 < nmz787_i> even duckduckgo won't find the +=
15:56 < kanzure> github search
15:56 < nmz787_i> ugh
15:56 < nmz787_i> what is that
15:56 < Qfwfq> Might be more efficient to search the Python documentation directly.
15:57 < Qfwfq> GitHub's search works great for usage examples.
15:57 < nmz787_i> no
15:57 < nmz787_i> this is a google search engine problem that I seem to run into hard about every two or three months
15:57 < Qfwfq> I'm not sure why it's hard to search for operators or keywords in programming.
15:57 < nmz787_i> I used to be able to search specific strings on the internet
15:57 < kanzure> because nobody wants to run actual regular expressions against an entire search index
15:57 < nmz787_i> 'back in the day'
15:58 < kanzure> *wants to pay the costs for
15:58 < nmz787_i> well why isn't there a paid google search then that works?
15:59 < nmz787_i> no one even had blogs with alternative search engines listed the last time I checked
15:59 < nmz787_i> altavista redirects to yahoo, which doesn't work
16:01 < nmz787_i> why don't you make a paid version kanzure?
16:01 < nmz787_i> I will sign up when it is ready ;)
16:05 < fenn> google code search did regex but i think its long dead
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16:06 < fenn> and it only searched codevreoos
16:06 < fenn>  repos
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16:09 < fenn> it really wouldnt be that hard for google to build an alterbnate index that respects punctuation, but theres no incentive for them to do so
16:10 < kanzure> i wonder how much money they need per additional character of index they allow
16:11 < fenn> and they have a culture that is hostile to user customization/preferences
16:11 < kanzure> i suspect that any company that focuses on paid search will tend to be overrun by enterprise customers with extremely large budgets
16:12 < kanzure> and then less time or resources to spend on smaller customers that just want to pay $10/mo for fucking code search
16:12 < fenn> it takes a lot of resources to spider the web
16:12 < kanzure> certainly
16:13 < fenn> commoncrawl may help get such a project off the ground
16:13 < kanzure> i'm not sure search is a wise thing to be spending time on like that
16:14 < fenn> past a certain point of unreliability it makes sense to build your own infrastructure/tools
16:15 < fenn> otherwise we would all still be using cvs and dos
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16:20 < jackybgood> paperbot http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00726-011-0902-6
16:20 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/c76badb74167f42a494ae227d5f5d89c.txt
16:23 < jackybgood> paperbot http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21505826
16:23 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1007%2Fs00726-011-0902-6
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16:28 < kanzure> fenn: search infrastructure is *big* and expensive
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16:28 < kanzure> fenn: so, pretty bad example
16:31 < nmz787_i> if something happened to google, search would not be very advanced from an open-source perspective
16:42 < dingo> kanzure: i didn't get very far with pip-accel today: https://github.com/paylogic/pip-accel/issues/34
16:43 < dingo> where it did work, it did work as fast as advertised, though
16:45 < kanzure> that's disappointing
16:45 < kanzure> this is a strange one... http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/Deleting%20secret%20data%20with%20public%20verifiability.pdf
16:46 < fenn> is that about destroying coins
16:50 < fenn> kanzure nmz why not distributed search? works well enough for finding torrents
16:51 < fenn> given a hash
16:52 < justanotheruser> the introduction of that paper is something I had no idea of
16:53 < justanotheruser> I thought if I had enough passes, there was basically no way to determine whether a bit was a 0 or a 1 without a really really low probability guess
16:53 < justanotheruser> 50% + really really low probability I should say
16:54 < kanzure> lots of storage devices and file systems make that not quite what you think
16:54 < kanzure> like, you are not always writing at the exact address you think you are
16:54 < kanzure> you might be writing at some address but it's "mapped" to who the fuck knows :/
16:54 < kanzure> (and the mapping may have changed)
16:55 < justanotheruser> kanzure: It isn't safe to assume that on a 1tb drive that overwriting 1tb will write to entire disk?
16:55 < kanzure> fenn: no it's actually not really about bitcoin, but i put it in there because it was cheaper than me figuring out a better place.
16:55 < justanotheruser> The only reason that I can see that wouldn't be true is if a 1tb disk was actually a >1tb disk
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16:57 < kanzure> fenn: making something distributed doesn't make it cheaper
16:57 < kanzure> (well, not always)
16:59 < fenn> but it makes it easier to make big, both from a social and technical perspective
16:59 < kanzure> i would rather spend cycles figuring out how to perma-solve paper access
16:59 < kanzure> s/access/storage
17:00 < fenn> seems like a similar problem to me
17:01 < fenn> any opinion on that 300gb set of book torrents?
17:01 < kanzure> i didn't look at content
17:02 < fenn> how big is all teh paperzz anyway
17:02 < kanzure> but i have the same opinion as i do any other torrent.. seeders ain't gonna seed multiple terabytes of books. they just wont. especially if they are incurring legal risk.
17:02 < kanzure> i estimate all papers to be <50 TB at this point
17:02 < kanzure> estmate 50 million papers at 1 MB/paper average
17:03 < fenn> i got  the impresdion they were just using torrents as the data backend for volunteer hosts
17:04 < fenn> thats a lot of TB
17:06 < fenn> full length book in ascii is only 1MB
17:06 < kanzure> a bunch of the get-rich-quick altcoin scammers have been trying to propose a proof-of-storage scheme where you get paid for storing data
17:06 < kanzure> except all of their proposals are unable to actually verify storage or whatever
17:06 < fenn> compressed
17:06 < kanzure> (check a hash doesn't work because you can just relay a request to another node)
17:07 < fenn> can you salt individual copies
17:08 < kanzure> well in the case of a decentralized system, salting wont work because you can store the salt and just retrieve the real one later when being interrogated, and apply your salt
17:08 < kanzure> *retrieve the real one later by relaying the request to a peer node
17:09 < kanzure> but also, i dunno if payment is what's required to make people store large quantities of papers
17:09 < fenn> but what if the copies are all encrypted with the salt inside
17:09 < kanzure> who has the keys?
17:10 < fenn> whoevet is storing the data
17:10 < kanzure> .title https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=310323.0
17:10 < yoleaux> Proof of Storage to make distributed resource consumption costly.
17:11 < fenn> nvm its too much work to verify my scheme
17:12 < fenn> youd need to download, decrypt, salt, encrypt, hash each block
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17:12 < fenn> just to verify
17:13 < fenn> my internet is broken atm
17:13 < kanzure> hrm i have lost a link to a thing i am remembering
17:14 < fenn> i am using more code ovrr smoke signal and pigeon
17:14 < fenn> jot
17:15 < fenn> why would wlan0 disappear
17:15 < fenn> rmmod modprobe doesnt help
17:16 < kanzure> bittorrent doesn't really rely on people proving they have files
17:16 < kanzure> because keeping the file and seeding it is cheaper than not? or is it just altruism
17:16 < kanzure> altruism is the only explanation i can think of because otherwise i can't explain the disappearance of most seeds
17:17 < fenn> bt is a transfer protocol
17:18 < fenn> do seeds last longer on private trackers?
17:18 < fenn> where there is an incntive for uploading
17:19 < kanzure> there's some incentives regarding uh.. some rating metric that i forget the name of.
17:19 < fenn> karma
17:19 < fenn> or just upload download ratio
17:19 < kanzure> those ratios are used to compute... things. somewhere.
17:20 < fenn> many clients upload block otals to the tracker which figure into its decision on which peer to refer you to
17:21 < fenn> i think
17:21 < kanzure> and i assume a private tracker community will kick you out if you suck too much
17:22 < fenn> old warez pools wouldnt let you download until you had uploaded something others had dwnloaded
17:23 < fenn> i haveng used private bt trackrrs
17:23 < kanzure> is this your natural typo rate
17:23 < fenn> haven't
17:24 < fenn> no its the pigeons, they dont like smoke
17:25 < kanzure> maybe storage isn't the problem (although it sure feels like it)
17:26 < fenn> 50TB is a big problem
17:27 < kanzure> btw i wasn't estimating supplementary docs, which are often anywhere from 1 page to 200 pages plus videos or something
17:27 < fenn> meh
17:27 < kanzure> realistically a complete archive of a repeatable scientific experiment can be many hundreds of gigs per project. this is obviously out of scope.
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17:28 < fenn> is it me or have abstracts been getting bigger
17:28 < kanzure> depends on the journal
17:28 < kanzure> or field
17:30 < fenn> what about seeding individual journals like nature or phys review letters
17:31 < kanzure> great way to get targeted and caught
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17:32 < fenn> how is it better to have a larger cross section of publishers wrt getting caught
17:32 < nmz787_i> we look more like researchers?
17:32 < fenn> now you are vulnerable to 500 publishers
17:33 < kanzure> well it depends on how it's being hosted
17:33 < nmz787_i> 'oh, crap, my files are publically available!!!'
17:33 < kanzure> publical
17:33 < nmz787_i> 'i had no idea, i'm a dumb biologist'
17:34 < kanzure> why is 50 TB still a problem anyway
17:34 < fenn> heh the only takediwn request i ever got was actually like that
17:34 < kanzure> isn't this 2014?
17:34 < nmz787_i> that's like 50 *$99 today
17:34 < fenn> i dont see any 50TB drives
17:34 < nmz787_i> or less
17:35 < fenn> no redundancy. hard to distribute
17:36 < fenn> i think number is too big an estimate anyway
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17:36 < fenn> all papers before year 2000 is a reasonable goal too
17:37 < fenn> " the millennial science ark"
17:37 < kanzure> "strategic science reserve"
17:37 < fenn> the papers went in two by two
17:38 < fenn> the flying spaghetti monster warned me of a great flood
17:39 < kanzure> aren't libraries supposed to be protected or something
17:39 < kanzure> i mean legally speaking
17:39 < kanzure> "of course a library has a copy, are you an idiot?"
17:39 < fenn> ffs i shouldnt have to be the one to do this
17:39 < fenn> libraries have whatever they have, until it turns out that they don't
17:40 < kanzure> yeah but nobody seems particularly angry that libraries distribute copies to their patrons
17:40 < fenn> yes it is strange
17:41 < kanzure> welcome to the future where you have to be a radical to operate a functional library
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17:41 < streety> aren't there provisions in whatever law covers copyright that permits a certain level of copying at libraries?
17:41 < fenn> its all right there in rainbows end
17:41 < fenn> cult of militant librarians
17:42 < kanzure> a library is incompatible with copyright
17:42 < fenn> streety not linraries but you can copy a chapter to hand out to a class
17:43 < fenn> educational exemption
17:43 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_library#Copyright_and_licensing
17:45  * fenn reads on local copy of wikipedia
17:45 < kanzure> "This act provides an exemption for nonprofit libraries and archives which allows up to three copies to be made, one of which may be digital. This may not be made public or distributed on the web, however. Further, it allows libraries and archives to copy a work if its format becomes obsolete.[25]"
17:46 < fenn> on
17:46 < fenn> one digital copy?
17:47 < kanzure> yep.. better delete the one on the hard drive if you load it in ram by acciddent.
17:47 < fenn> o noes i loadedd it into my brain
17:48 < fenn> better xor it
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17:56 < kanzure> there's not even a commercial library, really
17:56 < kanzure> where paying $10/mo gets you access to everything. hrm.
17:56 < kanzure> instead of paying licensing fees for renting content, a commercial library should use all of its income for legal defense
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17:58 < fenn> if they lose they haave to pay damages proportional to " lost revenue" which is a made up large number
17:58 < kanzure> i wonder what the largest lawsuit against a library has been
17:58 < kanzure> there was that google books lawsuit that got dismissed eventually
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17:59 < fenn> none because ghey always roll over
18:09 < fenn> sidechain paper is well written
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18:21 < kanzure> fenn: gmaxwell (one of the authors) was one of the pre-aaronsw people who did the jstor torrent dump
18:22 < fenn> interesting. what happened to said dump?
18:23 < kanzure> https://thepiratebay.se/torrent/6554331
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18:27 < justanotheruser> is libgen legal to seed in the US?
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18:37 < kanzure> hmm
18:37 < kanzure> so one possible fix to the "just ask a peer for the actual file" problem might be something like,
18:38 < kanzure> get the network to generate and agree on some random number
18:38 < kanzure> and then this random number determines who to interrogate or which papers to check in their archive
18:38 < kanzure> such that their peers can be informed not to retrieve those papers unless they are the ones being audited?
18:38 < kanzure> with sufficiently advanced notice you can just pre-fetch whatever you need to pass an audit
18:39 < kanzure> and if it's deterministic then you can just predict way ahead of time what you will be needing to prefech or which answers you'll have to provide
18:41 < kanzure> there's really no way to confirm that two differently salted copies aren't stored on the same disk....
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19:38 < kjskjskjs> hi
19:38 < Amorah> hi
19:38 < kjskjskjs> so I just 3-D printed a cycloidal transmission with this RepRap
19:38 < kjskjskjs> which went pretty fast
19:39 < Amorah> nice
19:39 < kjskjskjs> but the dimensions are slightly off
19:39 < Amorah> my motherboard wont boot
19:39 < kjskjskjs> why not?
19:39 < Amorah> im not sure what happened
19:39 < Amorah> the screen when completely white
19:39 < Amorah> and locked
19:39 < Amorah> so i turned it off
19:39 < Amorah> and now it wont turn on at all not even power to fans; nothing nada
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19:40 < kjskjskjs> I think all the perimeters on this transmission are squished out a little bit, like by 100 or 150 microns or so
19:40 < kjskjskjs> I would like to erode the shapes by 100 microns before printing it again but I am not sure how to do that
19:41 < kjskjskjs> I thought Meshlab would have an erosion or Minkowski difference operation but no
19:41 < kjskjskjs> Amorah: is this an ATX power supply
19:41 < kjskjskjs> ?
19:41 < kjskjskjs> and motherboard
19:41 < Amorah> nah
19:41 < kjskjskjs> or is it a laptop
19:41 < Amorah> its a desktop
19:41 < Amorah> i7-4790k
19:41 < Amorah> z97 gaming 5
19:42 < Amorah> i reseated the water cooler on it perfectly too
19:42 < Amorah> infact i got a 5c drop diff because i was idling at 35-45c
19:42 < kjskjskjs> even the power supply fans don't turn on?
19:42 < Amorah> and went to 25-28c
19:42 < Amorah> ya not even those; :(
19:42 < Amorah> i did the paperclip trick
19:42 < Amorah> so its not the PSU
19:42 < Amorah> i breadboarded it
19:43 < Amorah> <----geek
19:43 < kjskjskjs> bummer
19:43 < Amorah> but why the screen just goes white and now it wont pwoer on?
19:43 < Amorah> i mean the thing was omg it was perfect!! i spent an hour detailing its angles and everything sooo just omg
19:44 < kjskjskjs> I don't know
19:44 < Amorah> its all brand new too
19:44 < kjskjskjs> I mean it sounds like what would happen if the PSU went bad
19:45 < Amorah> yeah but its a corsair 750m
19:45 < kjskjskjs> which is most likely to happen when it's brand new
19:45 < Amorah> i could start someones truck with that thing
19:45 < kjskjskjs> maybe try it with a different PSU
19:45 < kjskjskjs> heh, trucks are a whole nother ballgame
19:45 < Amorah> i used the old 600w for that
19:45 < Amorah> and still null
19:45 < kjskjskjs> so it's the mobo
19:45 < Amorah> yeah but i checked every little thing
19:45 < Amorah> no burnt spots
19:46 < Amorah> no bent pins
19:46 < Amorah> no bent anything in Cpu socket
19:46 < Amorah> positive of that
19:46 < Amorah> doublechecked with magnifying glass xD
19:46 < kjskjskjs> :)
19:46 < Amorah> i know its not the thermalpaste
19:47 < Amorah> because i apply mine as a pea in the middle and about the mass of two rice grains
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19:47 < Amorah> i know the problem happened right after reseating the brackets in the back of the CPU
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19:47 < Amorah> but i used rubber washers so wtf?
19:48 < kjskjskjs> it's probably not your fault
19:48 < Amorah> and the thermal paste is IC diamond 24carat
19:48 < Amorah> i bought it 4 days ago at microcenter
19:48 < Amorah> it was on resale
19:48 < Amorah> and its audio was sorta buggin out
19:48 < Amorah> maybe the person took it back because they knew
19:48 < Amorah> that it was ready to crap out
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19:49 < Amorah> but they will ask if i overclocked; and i really didnt. i put all my voltages low and disabled power saving
19:49 < Amorah> 1.17 is what i put it at
19:49 < Amorah> no reason not to boot
19:49 < Amorah> as it idles at 1.1
19:49 < Amorah> 1.12*
19:50 < Amorah> a bricked bios wouldnt do this would it?
19:50 < Amorah> im still on google hammering searching :(
19:50 < Amorah> i ran to freenode hoping someone had some experience
19:50 < kjskjskjs> I don't think a bricked bios would do that, no
19:51 < kjskjskjs> but I don't have much experience
19:51 < kjskjskjs> I kind of hate system administration
19:52 < Amorah> lol thats what they call it eh?
19:52 < Amorah> i just finished building 3 pc's and now i get to working on my own and omfg. pulling my hair out
19:59 < kjskjskjs> yeah
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19:59 < kjskjskjs> if it's brand new maybe you can return it
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20:02 < Amorah> yeah i guess i will try that on monday when i have a ride;until then i dont have my pc
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20:44 < kjskjskjs> it's probably not your fault
20:54 < kanzure> https://github.com/trezor/trezor-mcu/tree/master/bootloader
20:56 < kjskjskjs> fair tresore
20:57 < kjskjskjs> unto a king!
20:57 < kanzure> .... go on...
20:57 < kjskjskjs> Ich am y-hote Escalibore!
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21:54 < kanzure> hmph
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22:56 < nmz787> sheena: how are the sheep? do you have any other animals?
22:57 < delinquentme> kanzure, so I just found a position doing test automation @ an industrial internet company
22:57 < yoleaux> 15 Oct 2014 20:43Z <nmz787_i> delinquentme: I'd expect the salinity to stay pretty constant or increase even, since salt continues to pour out of the glands, but evap removes water
22:57 < yoleaux> 15 Oct 2014 20:43Z <nmz787_i> delinquentme: and yep impedance spectroscopy is what I meant
22:57 < delinquentme> BIG company as well
22:57 < delinquentme> holy shit ! is this new functionality ??
22:57 < delinquentme> yoleaux, you are awesome !
22:57 < fenn> no just bot abuse
22:57 < kanzure> test automation means writing unit tests all day long
22:58 < nmz787> delinquentme: use .tell personsname your message
22:58  * fenn grumbles about memoserv
22:58 < kanzure> sheena threw her neck or something
22:58 < delinquentme> kanzure, true -- BUT huge money and embedded <> cloud interfaces
22:59 < fenn> fake it til you make it then
22:59 < kanzure> (she's sleepingz)
22:59 < delinquentme> but ill see -- meeting w altay on monday
22:59 < delinquentme> nmz787, I was thinking if I could wick the saline / minerals away then the surface could be tested for currently excreted mineral content
23:00 < delinquentme> kanzure, also Im trying to figure out the best way to take a position like this and make it remote
23:00 < nmz787> delinquentme: should be fine regardless as long as the sensor dynamic range is wide enough
23:00 < delinquentme> company called thingworx ... and backed by a huge engineering company
23:00 < nmz787> delinquentme: location?
23:00 < kanzure> if they are hiring for office occupants then pitching them remote is usually very difficult and not worth the effort.
23:01 < delinquentme> nmz787, the issue is that I'd want to sample *only* the saline content of what is currently  being excreted
23:01 < nmz787> but since you knew what previously was excreted, couldn't you do some sort of subtraction or normalization or something?
23:01 < delinquentme> nmz787, nice.
23:01 < nmz787> or have some pack that leaks water on the sensor
23:01 < nmz787> osmosis based
23:02 < nmz787> dialysis tubing
23:02 < nmz787> look that up
23:03 < nmz787> delinquentme: there's a guy at work who started out just doing unit testing and he moved into other things because he was contributing bugfixes so he got to know the code pretty well at the core
23:03 < delinquentme> actually just doing subtractive/ additive measures makes more sense
23:03 < delinquentme> to test: does resistance change as salt content is upped
23:04 < nmz787> like it's and interal or something
23:04 < nmz787> so you'd need to take the derivative
23:04 < nmz787> something like that
23:04 < nmz787> delinquentme: use impedance
23:04 < fenn> why are you measuring salt?
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23:04 < nmz787> basically resistance over a range of freqs
23:04 < kanzure> he is measuring butt temperature
23:04 < nmz787> there are chips that do this sweeping for you
23:04 < kanzure> and salt content impacts that or somtehing
23:05 < nmz787> and temperature tells you if you have fever
23:05 < nmz787> and ebola
23:05 < delinquentme> kanzure, thats another sensor
23:05  * kanzure sleeps
23:06 < delinquentme> fenn, hypothesis: I can use some electrical based measure to quantify the amount of salt/ electrolytes lost through the skin
23:06 < delinquentme> nmz787, whats this about internal + derivative?
23:06 < nmz787> integral
23:07 < justanotheruser> 19:59 < kanzure> i would rather spend cycles figuring out how to perma-solve paper access
23:07 < delinquentme> fenn, basically I cramp when I bike for sustained duration -- and I'd be curious as to how far off I am from getting my intake
23:07 < kanzure> justanotheruser: i think i meant storage.. not sure.
23:07 < justanotheruser> set up a server in a foreign country that serves files via tor?
23:07 < fenn> gsr is a common measurement used in polygraph machines
23:07 < delinquentme> pay off college students
23:07 < kanzure> justanotheruser: unfortunately i would still have to pay for 50 TB of storage
23:07 < kanzure> college students don't have 50 TB
23:07 < justanotheruser> you're not a college student?
23:08 < delinquentme> backblaze = stupid cheap storrrrr age
23:08 < delinquentme> kanzure, I still like the app idea
23:08 < kanzure> justanotheruser: i dropped out years ago
23:08 < justanotheruser> yeah, so I don't understand 02:07 < kanzure> college students don't have 50 TB
23:08 < kanzure> well it was because delinquentme suggested using college students
23:08 < justanotheruser> oh ok
23:08 < kanzure> pay attention :P
23:09 < justanotheruser> sorry, only read -wizards scrollback :P
23:09 < fenn> delinquentme you probably have magnedium deficiency from poor diet and caffeine use like the rest of the industrialized world
23:09 < fenn> magnesium
23:09 < kanzure> fenn: we figured out his problem a long time ago. not taking his meds (stimulants).
23:09 < nmz787> ooo
23:09 < nmz787> magnesium eh
23:09 < delinquentme> fenn, yeah I dosed up on spinach before last ride and it worked wonders ... HUGE different ... but still had small cramping
23:09 < justanotheruser> delinquentme: are you the guy with a frozen relative?
23:09 < nmz787> i think you had that the last time i saw you
23:09 < kanzure> justanotheruser: no
23:09 < nmz787> some fizzy pwder
23:10 < justanotheruser> who was that?
23:10 < kanzure> what, like a name?
23:10 < justanotheruser> last alias used
23:10 < delinquentme> the electrolytes you need: sodium, potassium, calcium magnesium
23:10 < kanzure> last alias.. hmm.
23:10 < fenn> amora or something was here earlier
23:10 < justanotheruser> somehow it reminded me of delinquentmes alias
23:10 < delinquentme> and the creatine makes me fucking monstrous
23:10 < kanzure> uh... um... diablosomething? hrm..
23:10  * justanotheruser checks /bans and its dantespeaks
23:10 < kanzure> damn
23:11 < kanzure> dante is not diablo
23:11 < justanotheruser> the d's mixed me up
23:11 < justanotheruser> kanzure: its pretty close
23:11 < fenn> amorah
23:11 < kanzure> proof of troll
23:12 < justanotheruser> amorah is dante?
23:12 < kanzure> dunno
23:12 < justanotheruser> It was a bit entertaining in a strange way to have him here... not sure kanzure feels the same
23:12 < fenn> compact proof if troll proof is compact in sub exponential time
23:12 < justanotheruser> at least it is entertaining reading the logs
23:12 < kanzure> yes i'm sure it's very amusing to see a dangerous stalker sending me threats
23:13 < justanotheruser> was him sending threats somewhere in the logs?
23:13 < kanzure> -_-
23:13 < justanotheruser> Didn't realize. Just him wanting to start some illegal business then begging for ltc
23:13 < justanotheruser> is what I saw
23:13 < delinquentme> HMMMMMM
23:13 < justanotheruser> kanzure: you didn't hold those ltc, did you?
23:14 < delinquentme> I'm wondering if I could get that expansive COMSOL lisence which would let me run it on a cluster
23:14 < kanzure> you're asking if i sold?
23:14 < fenn> i think he is just overenthusiastic with some borderline personality
23:14 < justanotheruser> or changed to btc
23:14 < kanzure> nah i haven't touched my stash in forever
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23:15 < fenn> god i sound like a chatbot tonight
23:15 < kanzure> are you still suffering from lag syndrome?
23:15 < justanotheruser> would be tough to get rid of those given the amount
23:16 < fenn> im suffering from typing on a nook and having read that sidechains paper
23:16 < nmz787> delinquentme: do you know how to use COMSOL ?
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23:16 < kanzure> comsol: for forth programmers who hate changing naming conventions after 50 years
23:16 < kanzure> ANYSOLV COMSOL NAMECODE
23:16 < justanotheruser> Feel free to tell me to stfu, but I'm really curious, did you buy those or something?
23:16 < fenn> fortran not forth
23:16 < kanzure> so picky
23:17 < kanzure> justanotheruser: he mistook a large stash for my own
23:17 < kanzure> i do not own 10% of all litecoin
23:17 < justanotheruser> oh, it was just some massive output someone else could spend on your demand (an exchange or wallet)?
23:18 < kanzure> probably
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23:18 < justanotheruser> it wasn't 10% iirc, just a few hundred thousand
23:20 < fenn> are physics processors still a thing
23:21 < fenn> like high precision gpu
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23:22 < justanotheruser> fenn: fpgas are a thing
23:23 < fenn> sounds expensive and power hungry
23:23 < kanzure> and proprietary
23:24 < justanotheruser> whats propietary, the hardware?
23:24 < kanzure> fpga stuff? yeah..
23:25 < justanotheruser> so you want open source hardware?
23:25 < fenn> the programming synthedis software
23:25 < justanotheruser> wait
23:25 < kanzure> and the protocol and firmware and stuff
23:25 < justanotheruser> why am I asking kanzure if he wants open source hardware
23:25 < kanzure> historically you have had better questions for me, it's true.
23:25 < fenn> cant use fpga without manufacturers software
23:25 < justanotheruser> fenn: is that true for all manufacturers?
23:26 < fenn> yes emphatically so
23:26 < kanzure> .g site:kickstarter.com fpga synthesis
23:26 < yoleaux> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1812459948/minispartan6-a-powerful-fpga-board-and-easy-to-use/comments?cursor=7269076
23:26 < kanzure> .g site:kickstarter.com fpga synthesis inurl:open
23:26 < yoleaux> No results found.
23:27 < justanotheruser> It worries me that they want $7500 to start an fpga company
23:27 < kanzure> they are just doing a pcb board i think (haven't looked)
23:27 < justanotheruser> "he design files, schematic and layout, for all the versions of miniSpartan6+ will be available as open source in the next few weeks.
23:27 < justanotheruser> So even if you receive miniSpartan6+ with BGA, you still can use the TQFP in your own design."
23:28 < fenn> just a board run
23:28 < fenn> this is what kickstarter is for imho
23:29 < kanzure> except that prices for pcbs have dropped so low that you don't really need to do group buys any more
23:30 < fenn> if you say so
23:30 < kanzure> $12/board ships in 3 days.. dunno where i saw this.
23:30 < fenn> depends on the board
23:31 < fenn> thats a good price tho even for a small dual layer
23:32 < delinquentme> LIQUID FOOOOOODDDD
23:32 < delinquentme> routing for PCBs are so sexy
23:32 < fenn> are you high on soylent
23:33 < delinquentme> IDK why ... just something about it
23:33 < delinquentme> fenn, almost -- prote poweder and soybeans
23:33 < fenn> ew
23:34 < fenn> google trypsin inhibitor
23:34 < fenn> also toporouter
23:34 < fenn> liquidpcb
23:36 < delinquentme> fenn, why trypsin inhibitor
23:38 < fenn> soybeans contain it
23:38 < delinquentme> would then that mean that i digest the protein slower?
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23:42 < delinquentme> lulz. Palantiri Systems
23:42 < fenn> yes
23:42 < delinquentme> " Oh you've worked at Palanti... " ... " Oh wait "
23:43 < delinquentme> fenn,  if I ensure that my protein intake is sufficient wouldn't that be a good thing then?  say especially as I slept ... or no?
23:43 < delinquentme> Im just eating them because they've got awesome protein / carb ratios ... and they're cheap as shit
23:46 < fenn> too much delay can lead to bacterial overgrowth
23:47 < fenn> prob ok if you arent adding sugar
23:47 < nmz787> fenn: fpgas are like $3 at the cheap but still fast lower end
23:47 < nmz787> fenn: just get less logic
23:49 < nmz787> http://www.latticestore.com/products/tabid/417/categoryid/6/productid/258/searchid/1/searchvalue/ice40hx1k-stick-evn/default.aspx
23:49 < nmz787> $25 fpga dev board
23:50 < fenn> can you implement a ray tracer or multidomain simulation on it
23:51 < nmz787> i've got no idea how many logic cells that would take
23:51 < fenn> me eithrr
23:52 < fenn> soft cpu is cheating
23:52 < nmz787> i think that dev kit specifically is meant for glue logic stuff, or other simple tasks that still could benefit from high speed
23:52 < nmz787> to get people into vhdl/verilog
23:52 < nmz787> and logic at a cheap price point
23:53 < nmz787> price was my problem 5 or 6 years ago when I wanted to jump into fpga stuff
23:53 < fenn> it was cheap then too
23:53 < nmz787> and that I didn't know about http://www.fpga4fun.com/
23:53 < nmz787> not for a dev board though
23:54 < nmz787> per chip sure
23:54 < fenn> pff dev board... you kids
23:54 < nmz787> but these chips have lots and lots integrated today
23:54 < nmz787> so it has also been a result of reduced part count at large
23:55 < nmz787> plus they're up the street from me, so at least it's a local fpga :)
23:55 < fenn> does it have wifi and gps :)
23:55 < nmz787> no but I think TI has a chip for that now
23:56 < fenn> "theres a chip for that"
23:57 < nmz787> apparently this only has wifi https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12072?gclid=Cj0KEQjw8aeiBRCknPXk-u_V_4gBEiQAD2-mgZc3j2_NSu-DTYLavQ2ZESd88GIpvQjdzzauyhZmF-waAklt8P8HAQ
23:57 < fenn> .title
23:57 < yoleaux> CC3000 WiFi Breakout - WRL-12072 - SparkFun Electronics
23:57 < nmz787> 'Throughput (TCP): ~4Mbps'
23:57 < nmz787> 'EEE 802.11 b/g Compliant WEP, WPA/WPA2 (AES and TKIP - Personal) Security Modes'
23:57 < nmz787> all via SPI
23:57 < nmz787> $35
23:59 < fenn> my phone cost less than that
23:59 < nmz787> the chip itself looks to be $22
23:59 < nmz787> yep
23:59 < nmz787> scale of economy etc
23:59 < fenn> weird huh
23:59 < nmz787> we are little fish in the buyers market
23:59 < nmz787> not buying 10000 chips at once
--- Log closed Sat Oct 25 00:00:07 2014