--- Log opened Mon Oct 27 00:00:31 2014 00:31 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lxxzxsbxpbkclswr] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:50 < ebowden> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC26516/pdf/pq001802.pdf 01:53 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.54.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:26 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.54.84] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:16 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:18 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:19 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 03:21 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:32 -!- pete4242 [~smuxi@boole.london.hackspace.org.uk] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:17 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:25 -!- ThomasEgi_ [~thomas@2a02:810b:33f:dc18:5142:600d:dc74:cad0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:29 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:55 < kanzure> you killed paperbot 05:28 < kanzure> http://gendal.wordpress.com/2014/10/26/a-simple-explanation-of-bitcoin-sidechains/ 06:29 < kanzure> .to heath https://github.com/enaqx/awesome-react 06:29 < yoleaux> kanzure: I'll pass your message to heath. 06:32 < justanotheruser> kanzure: you know what would be really bad? If a kidnapping insurance company had their db hacked. 06:36 < kanzure> i'll get right on it 06:36 < justanotheruser> I was thinking about our convo last night 06:36 < kanzure> http://nerdbastards.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/power-rangers.jpg 06:36 < justanotheruser> and realized having that insurance incentivizes kidnapping since you can pay them 06:36 < justanotheruser> however no one should know that you have such insurance 06:37 < justanotheruser> kidnapping insurance probably has the most critical data of any insurance companies. It being leaked would destroy the insurance company and get many people kidnapped 06:39 < kanzure> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1aa0ga/bitcoin_saves_the_life_of_15year_old_girl_in/ 06:41 < justanotheruser> kidnapping policy is a strange thing. So many conflicting incentives 07:05 -!- Vutral__ [~ss@176.10.107.233] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:06 < kanzure> justanotheruser: also the parental kiddnapping type is interesting 07:07 < kanzure> justanotheruser: because that can also be associated with a ransom demand 07:07 < justanotheruser> why? The only difference from a kidI see is a lost salary 07:08 < kanzure> *kidnapping 07:09 < kanzure> the reason why is because there's additional weirdery in child custody laws 07:09 -!- Vutral_ [~ss@31.7.56.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:11 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnap_and_ransom_insurance 07:12 < kanzure> "One of the known paradoxes of K&R policies is that those who have them are often not aware, as it can be provided by an employer hoping to protect the company's assets. It is believed that an employee with knowledge of his K&R policy might begin to act differently, or even collude in his own kidnap for fraudulent purposes.[3]" 07:12 < kanzure> "Criminal gangs are believed to make $500 million a year from kidnap and ransom payments.[4]" 07:29 < justanotheruser> yeah, part of the reason their db has to be confidential between them and the person paying the insurance (the two parties that have incentive to not have someone kidnapped) 07:33 < justanotheruser> kanzure: what do you think of this math? "Bitcoin’s block interval is ten minutes so it takes about five minutes on average for a new transaction to find its way into a block" 07:33 < justanotheruser> from the gendal.wordpress you linked 07:34 < kanzure> erm the number i've often heard is "on average you can expect a block to appear within ten minutes whenever you look" 07:34 < kanzure> a transaction can't find its way faster into a block than the rate of block production 07:34 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8515398 07:34 < yoleaux> Ad blocker that clicks on the ads | Hacker News 07:36 < kanzure> http://dhowe.github.io/AdNauseam/ 07:37 < kanzure> firefox extension http://rednoise.org/adnauseam/adnauseam.xpi 07:38 < justanotheruser> kanzure: help me with this math 07:38 < justanotheruser> 10:37 < justanotheruser> It should be 10min I think. That seems to be a bit of a paradox though 07:38 < justanotheruser> 10:38 < justanotheruser> At every moment you are 10min from the next block on average, however, blocks on average are 10min apart and not all tx for the next block come 0min after the last black 07:41 < kanzure> blocks are independent of transactions 07:41 < justanotheruser> yes 07:42 < justanotheruser> but given a uniform distribution of transactions, the average would be blocktime/2 wouldn't it? 07:42 < justanotheruser> however, if I make a tx, the next block is 10min away on average 07:44 < kanzure> haha opentransactions is basically saying "welp, use a blockchain i guess" http://monetas.net/monetas-brings-colored-coins-to-btcd/ 07:45 < kanzure> justanotheruser: it also depends on what they mean by "new" transaction 08:17 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.54.84] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:22 -!- weles [~mariusz@wsip-174-78-132-9.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:47 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lxxzxsbxpbkclswr] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 08:51 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:52 -!- andytoshi [~andytoshi@unaffiliated/andytoshi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:53 < kanzure> "A collection of NASA sounds from historic spaceflights and current missions" http://www.nasa.gov/connect/sounds/index.html 08:54 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:54 < kanzure> https://soundcloud.com/nasa 08:58 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6CyS06c8tI 08:58 < yoleaux> AlvaBio - Liquid Handler Prototype - YouTube 08:58 < kanzure> "Here's an update on the liquid handler I've been working on. I got X and Y working, still need to do Z and the pump. Yay progress. The video of the prototype shows going around two 96 well plates, and then going from each well in the bottom row to a small petri dish. Looking for a co-founder with a background in the life-sciences. Email me directly. You'd have to move to the San Francisco Bay area eventually." 08:58 < kanzure> Tom Eberhard 08:59 < kanzure> https://soundcloud.com/martingarrix/martin-garrix-moti-virus-how-about-now-out-now 09:14 -!- strangewarp_ [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:15 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@pool-173-74-79-151.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:26 < heath> yoleaux: you have a message... 09:26 < yoleaux> 13:29Z heath: https://github.com/enaqx/awesome-react 09:31 < kanzure> hahah "Bryan! Would you be interested in a career opportunity with Zynga!? I came across your resume today and I wanted to talk with you about some excellent opportunities I am recruiting on for Zynga." 09:33 < heath> protein foldville 09:38 < tallakahath> I'd play that. 09:40 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:41 < juri_> i think i'd prefer 'cell defense'. tower defense games are addicting. 09:41 < justanotheruser> kanzoracle: is aspertame bad for you? 09:41 < kanzure> relay question to fenn or jrayhawk 09:42 < justanotheruser> to my understanding, you naturally produce it, however you produce far less than you're consuming by a few orders of magnitude 09:42 < justanotheruser> fenn or jrayhawk_: Is aspertame bad for you 09:42 < justanotheruser> hmm 09:43 < justanotheruser> So is this like a binary tree and if you guys don't know the answer you'll refer me to two other people? 09:43 < juri_> relay question to kanzure, or paperbot. 09:43 < justanotheruser> you're not in this tree and going to kanzure would make it a directed graph, not a tree 10:01 < kanzure> http://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/dna-replication-basic-detail 10:01 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@192.55.54.42] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:02 < kanzure> that video needs a national geographic horn 10:05 -!- sheena [~home@S010690b134fc2e54.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:05 -!- sheena2 [~home@50.66.72.211] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:07 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:08 -!- cpopell2 [~cpopell@c-76-26-144-132.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:10 < kanzure> huh, tritonal is in austin. i should go find them. 10:12 -!- ryankarason [~rak@opensource.cse.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:16 -!- pete4242 [~smuxi@boole.london.hackspace.org.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:32 -!- ryankarason [~rak@opensource.cse.ohio-state.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:32 -!- ryankarason is now known as rak[1] 10:34 -!- JingoFett [~|d|@ip68-107-37-158.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:39 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qdhbbrbinnfbukya] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:41 -!- JingoFett [~|d|@ip68-107-37-158.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:42 -!- drethelin [drethelin@71-87-115-157.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:47 -!- andytoshi [~andytoshi@wpsoftware.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:47 -!- andytoshi [~andytoshi@wpsoftware.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:47 -!- andytoshi [~andytoshi@unaffiliated/andytoshi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:48 -!- _Sol_ [~SolGr@c-69-141-24-242.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:58 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:10 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:14 -!- cpopell [~cpopell@c-76-26-144-132.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:19 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:27 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:35 < kanzure> https://blog.gregbrockman.com/figuring-out-the-cto-role-at-stripe 11:42 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:42 -!- heath [~ybit@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:48 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:49 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:51 < justanotheruser> paperbot: find me an article going over standard of living increases in recorded history 11:56 -!- peteros [~asakharov@24.60.79.55] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:56 -!- peteros [~asakharov@24.60.79.55] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 12:02 -!- heath [~ybit@131.252.130.248] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:10 < paperbot> justanotheruser: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_of_living_in_the_United_States 12:11 < justanotheruser> thanks paperbot, but I think recorded history goes past when the United States was founded 12:20 < chris_99> paperbot: find me an article on cats 12:42 -!- snuffeluffegus is now known as gurpgork 12:49 < nsh> paperbot, http://www.researchgate.net/publication/220528701_Emergence_of_fuzzy_preferences_for_risk_in_a_Birkhoff-von_Neumann_logics_environment 12:51 < nsh> anyone? https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1708904 12:51 < nsh> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165011405000576 12:52 < justanotheruser> nsh: http://www.filedropper.com/1-s20-s0165011405000576-main 12:52 < nsh> thank you kindly 12:54 < nsh> also this, if possible: http://www.researchgate.net/publication/227018798_ukasiewicz_Operations_in_Fuzzy_Set_and_Many-Valued_Representations_of_Quantum_Logics 12:54 < nsh> to wit http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023%2FA%3A1026462019270 12:56 < justanotheruser> nsh: http://www.filedropper.com/art3a1010232fa3a1026462019270 12:56 < nsh> \o/ much obliged \o/ 12:59 < nsh> context (private correspondence): 12:59 < nsh> -- 12:59 < nsh> A recent personal journal entry: 12:59 < nsh> Here is a paper I'd very much like to read, but can't gain access to: "Emergence of fuzzy preferences for risk in a Birkhoff-von Neumann logics environment", Emmanuel Haven, Fuzzy Sets and Systems, 153, January 2005, pp. 29-43. Quoting the Abstract: 12:59 < nsh> 12:59 < nsh> We show that if a portfolio of a financial derivative asset and a stock is put in an environment where the value of an asset (besides it price) is formalized as a superposition of price states, such portfolio may not be risk free and fuzzy preferences for risk primia may exist. We argue for a modification of the classical Brownian motion process as used in risk pricing. This modification on the classical Brownian motion, we call the bar-h^-Brownian motio 12:59 < nsh> n and one specific format of this bar-h^-Brownian motion can be shown to have a connection with the quantum physical Schrodinger equation. 12:59 < nsh> 12:59 < nsh> What would become apparent if Lukasiewicz logics, understood independent of the notion truth-value, and not reduced to the real interval (0,1), a la ASKarpenko's functors, were intruded upon the elaborated version of the Birkhoff-vonNeumann lattice-logic conception, as given in, say, "Lukasiewicz Operations in Fuz 12:59 < nsh> zy Set and Many-Valued Representations of Quantum Logic", Jaroslaw Pykacz, Foundations of Physics, 30(9), August 2008, pp. 1503-1524, where Lukasiewicz is treated relative to probability amplitudes? Quoting this abstract: 12:59 < nsh> 12:59 < nsh> It is shown that Birkhoff-von Neumann quantum logic (i.e., an orthomodular lattice or poset) possessing an ordering set of probability measures S can be isomorphically represented as a family of fuzzy subsets of S. . . 12:59 < nsh> 12:59 < nsh> Would Haven's "fuzzy preferences" relative to financial derivatives become functional equivalents to the preference functions underlying Adolf Lowe's "instrumental inference" and suddenly appear as informatives to the value-stack sheaving to be deployed in uTm-valued LETS nesting foams? Is this a route to transformations of financial derivatives into-onto Lukasiewiczian LETS? 12:59 < nsh> --- 12:59 < nsh> .wik Lukasiewicz logics 12:59 < yoleaux> "In mathematics, Łukasiewicz logic (/luːkəˈʃɛvɪtʃ/; Polish pronunciation: [wukaˈɕɛvʲitʂ]) is a non-classical, many valued logic. It was originally defined in the early 20th-century by Jan Łukasiewicz as a three-valued logic; it was later generalized to n-valued (for all finite n) as well as infinitely-many-valued (ℵ0-valued) variants, both …" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%81ukasiewicz_logic 13:00 < nsh> his paper is called "Can Planning Be a Coherent Free Market Behavior?" 13:02 -!- weles [~mariusz@wsip-174-78-132-9.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:04 < nmz787_i> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165011405000576 13:04 < nsh> (i think about this kind of stuff a fair amount in the context of cryptocurrencies as vehicle for rich distributed information processing by autonomous economic actors as direct-democratic macroeconomic planning) 13:05 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/%0A%20Emergence%20of%20fuzzy%20preferences%20for%20risk%20in%20a%20Birkhoffvon%20Neumann%20logics%20environment%0A%20.pdf 13:05 < nmz787_i> nsh: gotta ask to receive sometimes ^ 13:05 < nmz787_i> nsh: though I see justanotheruser got it too 13:05 < nsh> oh, sorry i thought it worked with , 13:05 * nsh blames hexchat 13:05 < nmz787_i> no 13:05 < nsh> ty 13:06 < nmz787_i> it doesn't do researchgate, as there aren't pdfs there usually 13:06 < nsh> right, assumed as much 13:06 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165011405000576 13:06 < kanzure> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023%2FA%3A1026462019270 13:07 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/%0A%20Emergence%20of%20fuzzy%20preferences%20for%20risk%20in%20a%20Birkhoffvon%20Neumann%20logics%20environment%0A%20.pdf 13:09 < kanzure> and? 13:09 < kanzure> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023%2FA%3A1026462019270 13:09 < justanotheruser> are any respectable journals public domain? 13:09 < nmz787_i> paperbot: http://dx.doi.org/10.1023/A:1026462019270 13:09 < justanotheruser> or at least a non-restrictive license 13:10 < nmz787_i> deadjournal... oh wait, that's dead 13:10 < nmz787_i> paperbot: http://rd.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1023%2FA%3A1026462019270.pdf 13:10 < kanzure> justanotheruser: plos? 13:10 < justanotheruser> kanzure: plos? 13:10 < nmz787_i> plos maybe 13:11 < kanzure> ... plos one? 13:11 < justanotheruser> plos is just a collection of journals? 13:11 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:12 < delinquentme> paperbot, http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v507/n7491/full/nature13118.html 13:12 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fnature13118 13:12 < nmz787_i> kanzure: I noticed some of my logins expired recently 13:13 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:13 < kanzure> that explains a lot 13:14 < nmz787_i> i tried renewing one but their web form didn't seem to be working, though it was probably late at night so they could have been updating something and that's why it seemed broken 13:16 < nmz787_i> 'The primary purpose of GCL during that phase of it's existence was to support the Maxima computer algebra system, also maintained by Dr. Schelter. It existed largely as a subproject of Maxima.' 13:17 < nmz787_i> http://maxima.sourceforge.net/ 13:17 < nmz787_i> 'Maxima is a system for the manipulation of symbolic and numerical expressions, including differentiation, integration, Taylor series, Laplace transforms, ordinary differential equations, systems of linear equations, polynomials, and sets, lists, vectors, matrices, and tensors. Maxima yields high precision numeric results by using exact fractions, arbitrary precision integers, and variable precision floating point numbers. Maxima 13:17 < nmz787_i> can plot functions and data in two and three dimensions.' 13:17 < nmz787_i> 'Maxima is a descendant of Macsyma, the legendary computer algebra system developed in the late 1960s at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. It is the only system based on that effort still publicly available and with an active user community, thanks to its open source nature. Macsyma was revolutionary in its day, and many later systems, such as Maple and Mathematica, were inspired by it' 13:21 < archels> justanotheruser: PLoS, Frontiers 13:24 < justanotheruser> interesting 13:25 -!- strages_ [sid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-idldodmnlkbramjf] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:26 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qdhbbrbinnfbukya] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:26 -!- HashNuke [sid12117@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-udqctqrpkrrydiji] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:27 -!- HashNuke [sid12117@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nntuiknqayqojhli] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:27 -!- strages_ [sid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xpuwixelfdimxsmp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:27 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wrroqnoodgfcdjqe] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:32 -!- gurpgork [~snuff@5.150.254.180] has quit [Quit: May the force be with you. Always.] 13:35 < heath> .title http://dev.mixrad.io/blog/2014/10/19/Clojure-libraries/ 13:35 < yoleaux> MixRadio Developers - Using Clojure At MixRadio 13:44 < justanotheruser> what gives a journal integrity? Historically publishing articles that have been properly peer reviewed? 13:48 < kanzure> lots and lots of bullshit 13:48 < kanzure> brand, basically 13:48 < kanzure> entrenchment 13:48 < nmz787_i> justanotheruser: that seems reasonable... negative reviews of a journal would stand out as more influential to me than positive reviews 13:48 < kanzure> you can't just show up and be like "sup bitches pay me $50k/mo for my journal" 13:49 < chris_99> lol 13:49 < nmz787_i> integrity re articles would also related to publishing retractions and stuff like that 13:49 < kanzure> http://retractionwatch.com/ is interesting 13:50 < kanzure> hehehe "Quantum physics paper pulled for “serious theoretical errors,” notice accidentally paywalled" 13:51 < nmz787_i> is this the reduce that is part of the term 'map reduce'? http://reduce-algebra.sourceforge.net/ 13:53 < nmz787_i> http://www.maths.adelaide.edu.au/anthony.roberts/legofractals.php 13:54 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:58 < delinquentme> sup bitches pay me $20k/mo for my journal ... ? 13:58 < delinquentme> plz 13:58 < delinquentme> lololol 13:59 < kanzure> that's seriously how it goes down 14:00 < kanzure> http://isites.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k77982&tabgroupid=icb.tabgroup143448 14:03 < kanzure> i haven't seen anyone attempting to estimate how much a journal should actually cost 14:03 < kanzure> assume that the publisher is actually doing stuff, like paying editors and artists 14:03 < kanzure> in the most gratuitous manner 14:03 < kanzure> like assume 3-4 artists per paper or something 14:03 < kanzure> and 4 editors and 20 reviewers 14:03 < kanzure> and also imagine that they pay all of those 14:03 < kanzure> plus some costs for software, infrastructure, salary, management, whatever. 14:03 < kanzure> now how much does that really total up to? 14:04 < delinquentme> its also semi-solved and not that interesting 14:04 < delinquentme> I mean ... do you want to be in science journalism? 14:04 < kanzure> is it $40k/year for every library in the world? .. that's at least $40k * 1k libraries =~ $3.3M/mo 14:05 < kanzure> it's not solved at all. these journals haven't budged. 14:06 < bkero> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v456/n7221/pdf/456446a.pdf 14:07 < bkero> kanzure: you have a way of pulling papers from nature? 14:09 < kanzure> paperbot usually does it 14:09 < fenn> bkero: http://fennetic.net/irc/456446a.pdf 14:09 < bkero> fenn: <3 14:09 < kanzure> fenn: can you write some unit tests for paperbot v2 :( 14:09 < kanzure> it's just not getting done 14:10 < fenn> where's paperbot v2? 14:10 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot 14:10 < kanzure> same repo, but in the paperbot/ folder 14:10 < kanzure> everything in paperbot/ is just a python library (without the irc parts yet) 14:11 < kanzure> (because the paper-fetching-handling code should probably have nothing to do with irc) 14:11 < fenn> class BaseTestCase(unittest.TestCase): pass 14:11 < fenn> hmm 14:12 < kanzure> technically you're not wrong 14:12 < fenn> no i mean its just a pointless class 14:12 < kanzure> technically you're not wrong 14:12 < fenn> ok 14:13 < kanzure> i think the goal should be to optimize in the laziest way possible the choice of which things to test 14:13 < kanzure> or the most faily parts of paperbot 14:14 < kanzure> (and not 100% coverage just for the sake of testing stuff) 14:15 < fenn> given that paperbot's main role is to interact with the internet, does it make sense to include sample web pages? 14:15 < kanzure> yes? 14:15 < kanzure> unit tests should never actually touch the internet 14:16 < kanzure> it's true that it would be useful to test if all of the parsers are still working for each target site, but i think that should be some other test mode 14:16 < fenn> yeah that is more like regression testing 14:18 < kanzure> testing against local html files? i suppose so 14:20 < fenn> somewhere in the western united states... a server is crying 14:21 < kanzure> only other thing to test is stuff like downloaditer 14:21 < fenn> dunno what that is 14:25 < kanzure> it's a function in one of the files 14:25 < kanzure> it yields under various conditions (maybe) (this is not tested) 14:25 < kanzure> um i maybe mean iterdownload 14:32 < fenn> heh "Maybe you're also supposed to have some sort of insurance insurance that goes and breaks your insurance company's legs if they don't keep to their contracts." 14:33 < fenn> i'd buy that 14:35 < jrayhawk_> justanotheruser: massively disruptive to the cephalic stage of digestion, and as a fermentable polyol it will also be a microbiome disruptor 14:39 < jrayhawk_> http://vimeo.com/52645372 is a good presentation on how to conceptualize a null hypothesis of how sugar consumption is supposed to work 14:43 < jrayhawk_> ( i guess some useful addendums to that would be phenolics http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/02/polyphenols-hormesis-and-disease-part-i.html http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/02/polyphenols-hormesis-and-disease-part.html and understanding that cephalic caloric estimation is not really practical with thin liquids) 14:47 < fenn> he's not here now 15:00 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:03 < fenn> justanotheruser: tail http://gnusha.org/logs/2014-10-27.log 15:04 < fenn> i have no idea why jrayhawk_ is talking about polyphenols or polyols since aspartame is neither 15:06 < kanzure> http://blog.coinalytics.co/moolah-blockchain-investigation 15:08 < fenn> my understanding of "why polyphenols are good" is that they are made up of flavonoids which lower blood sugar in an insulin-independent manner 15:09 < fenn> "Proanthocyanidins are mostly polymeric units of catechin and epicatechin." 15:17 < jrayhawk_> The formation of a good working null hypothesis for how sugar is supposed to work necessarily involves phenolics. 15:17 < fenn> i didnt watch the video 15:17 < jrayhawk_> Apparently. 15:18 < justanotheruser> weird 15:22 < jrayhawk_> What's weird? 15:28 < fenn> wtf is "energy overload" 15:31 < kanzure> a really bad drink 15:34 -!- abetusk [~abe@c-71-192-163-80.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:36 < nmz787_i> fenn: when your circuits just blew 15:37 < fenn> justanotheruser: i'm going to go ahead and say that aspartame is safe at normal doses, but potentially mildly addictive stimulant 15:37 < nmz787_i> stimulant? 15:38 * delinquentme drinks more 15:38 < nmz787_i> I've never heard of grumy kids jonesing for nutrasweet packets 15:38 < fenn> due to increasing levels of adrenaline norepinephrine and dopamine 15:38 < nmz787_i> 'quick let's go rip off the lunch room' 15:38 < fenn> i've seen lots of anorexic girls addicted to diet coke 15:38 < nmz787_i> s/grumy/grimy/ 15:38 < nmz787_i> fenn: aren't they addicted to being skinny though? 15:39 < kanzure> what part of anorexic did you miss 15:39 < fenn> it has more of an effect when you aren't eating any protein 15:39 < fenn> the blood brain barrier is non-selective about what amino acids it transports 15:40 < fenn> so when you dump a specific amino acid (i.e. phenylalanine) into the blood, its relative concentration in the brain goes up, as does its metabolites 15:40 < fenn> if there are already a bunch of amino acids floating around, they act as a buffer 15:41 < fenn> that's my theory at least 15:42 < nmz787_i> and then your body goes ahead with gluconeogenesis and BAM... anorexic person just got calorified 15:42 < nmz787_i> FAIL 15:42 < fenn> people think aspartame is not safe because "chemicals are evil" and they've rationalized this by tying the aspartic acid component of it to the "monosodium glutamate is bad for you" theory (which has never been backed up by any evidence) 15:42 < nmz787_i> well chinese restaurant syndrome is a thing 15:42 < fenn> no, it's just people being hysterical 15:43 < nmz787_i> but that can be generalized to impulses/spikes relative to normal... which pretty much any compound exhibits 15:43 < fenn> glutamate might have an effect on people with glutamate/gaba balance issues already, like (maybe) schizophrenia or bipolar disorder 15:43 < fenn> but i've never seen any evidence 15:44 < nmz787_i> meh, i believe the literature since it goes back like 60 or more years re MSG... but it generally seemed like a 'duh' moment after I finished reading all the stuff I read 15:44 < fenn> "chinese restaurant syndrome" sounds to me like a food allergy 15:44 < nmz787_i> 'duh' being, oh you just ate a bunch of isolated chemical boosting concentrations to non-normal levels and of course there will be some non-normal effect 15:45 < nmz787_i> nah it was the original NEJM paper 15:45 < nmz787_i> New England Journal of Medicine 15:45 < fenn> yes i know 15:45 < fenn> "A food additive called monosodium glutamate (MSG) has been blamed, but it has not been proven to be the substance that causes this condition." 15:46 < fenn> "[since 1968] many studies have failed to show a connection between MSG and the symptoms that some people describe after eating Chinese food." 15:46 < nmz787_i> I liked the paper that showed greater gut clearance with low-levels of MSG supplement in old-age home old-folks food 15:47 < fenn> chest pain, flushing, sweating, headache, numbness or burning in and around the mouth, sense of facial pressure or swelling 15:47 < nmz787_i> all seems reasonable for the spike levels the subjects were subjected to 15:47 < fenn> sounds like an allergy or chemical toxicity 15:47 < nmz787_i> I get that when my capsacin level spikes 15:47 < fenn> yeah or spicy food 15:48 < nmz787_i> or when my pixy-stick tank gets too low 15:48 -!- abetusk [~abe@c-71-192-163-80.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:48 < fenn> i have no idea what that means 15:48 < nmz787_i> guzzle a pixy stick and tell me if you feel OK 15:48 -!- abetusk is now known as Guest34921 15:48 < fenn> it causes flushing, sweating, swelling of the face? 15:49 < fenn> isnt it just sugar? 15:49 < fenn> "The ingredients in Pixy Stix are as follows: Dextrose, Citric Acid, less than 2% artificial and natural flavors. Pixy Stix do not contain protein or essential vitamins or minerals." 15:50 < fenn> "The non-resealable straw pouring loose candy powder in the hands of children led to routine objections from parents. During the 1960s a solid version of the confection formula was created from Pixy Stix named SweeTarts and grew in popularity with other hard packed candies, which caused Pixy Stix to become almost extinct." 15:50 < fenn> do you have the same reaction to sweet tarts? 15:52 < nmz787_i> when I eat half a kilo in a setting, yes 15:52 < fenn> in 1968 the concept of "chinese food" or anything besides bland fucking meat and potatoes was a wild foreign concept 15:53 < fenn> i dont know if szechuan pepper was available then or not.. but it also causes mouth numbness 15:54 < fenn> if szechuan was the cause it would explain the difficulty in replicating these symptoms, since it was banned for import to the US 15:55 < nmz787_i> i ate szechuan pepper like a month ago here 15:55 < nmz787_i> all the glorious numbness too 15:56 < fenn> "they produce a strange, tingling, buzzing, numbing sensation that is something like the effect of carbonated drinks or of a mild electrical current (touching the terminals of a nine-volt battery to the tongue). Sanshools appear to act on several different kinds of nerve endings at once, induce sensitivity to touch and cold in nerves that are ordinarily nonsensitive, and so perhaps cause a kind 15:56 < fenn> of general neurological confusion." 15:57 < fenn> heh "From 1968 to 2005, the United States Food and Drug Administration banned the importation of Sichuan peppercorns because they were found to be capable of carrying citrus canker" 15:57 < nmz787_i> ah 15:58 < fenn> shouldnt that be the USDA 15:58 < nmz787_i> big juice conspiracy 16:13 < jrayhawk_> I haven't seen any glutamate RCTs yet, but it's at least pretty suspicious. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19170689 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25030431 http://www.neurology.org/content/57/9/1618.short 16:14 < jrayhawk_> the functional medicine crowd treats inflammation-induced BBB permeability plus evolutionarily novel highly bioavailable sources of glutamate as the worry 16:15 < jrayhawk_> e.g. proteolyzed proteins, dairy, etc. 16:16 < jrayhawk_> I've always thought that was a bit weird since I would expect a decent amount of glutamate to be freed by stomach acid 16:17 < jrayhawk_> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-06/foas-wil060214.php on BBB permeability 16:17 < jrayhawk_> http://www.fasebj.org/content/28/6/2551.abstract 16:18 < jrayhawk_> '15:28 < fenn> wtf is "energy overload"' mitochondrial oxidative stress inducing insulin resistance 16:21 < fenn> people start "reacting" to glutamate before its even past the stomach tho 16:23 < jrayhawk_> well, some people are legitimately allergic to some types 16:23 < jrayhawk_> my dad, for instance, has an intense MSG allergy 16:24 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25 < fenn> how did he determine he was allergic to MSG? 16:26 < jrayhawk_> I didn't ask. 16:26 < fenn> well, one thing i'm learning is that food has a lot of shit added to it that's not on the label 16:28 < jrayhawk_> and i suppose the cephalic stage does induce all sorts of interesting physiological effects, but I don't know much about the glutamate system, there. 16:28 < jrayhawk_> Presumably it's pretty important since we have an actual taste receptor for it. 16:29 < fenn> i get what i think are migraines from most brands of dodorant 16:29 < fenn> deodorant* 16:29 < fenn> dodorant would be an atheist punk band 16:30 < jrayhawk_> i wonder why that taste has such a dumb name 16:31 < fenn> because we didnt have a word in english 16:31 < jrayhawk_> we had "glutamate" 16:31 < jrayhawk_> seems good enough 16:32 < fenn> .ety savory 16:32 < yoleaux> savory (adj.): ""pleasing in taste or smell," c.1200, from Old French savore "tasty, flavorsome" (Modern French savouré), past participle of savourer "to taste" (see savor (n.))." — http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=savory 16:32 < fenn> not specific enough i guess 16:33 < fenn> oh apparently it wasn't even a japanese word 16:33 * fenn shrugs 16:34 < jrayhawk_> really? where the devil did it come from? 16:34 < fenn> was chosen by Professor Kikunae Ikeda from umai (うまい) "delicious" and mi (味) "taste". The kanji 旨味 are used for a more general sense of a food as delicious. 16:34 < jrayhawk_> oh, close enough 16:35 < fenn> i've heard people say "umai" about candy and ice cream 16:37 < fenn> "GMP and IMP amplify the taste intensity of glutamate." 16:37 < jrayhawk_> i guess "umami" had a lot of inertia because the west fell behind on research due to skepticism 16:38 < fenn> if the receptor is more active in the presence of purines it's not really a glutamate receptor? 16:39 < fenn> biology is just a pile of hacks anyway 16:40 < fenn> In 1957, Akira Kuninaka realized that the ribonucleotide GMP present in shiitake mushrooms also conferred the umami taste. One of Kuninaka's most important discoveries was the synergistic effect between ribonucleotides and glutamate. When foods rich in glutamate are combined with ingredients that have ribonucleotides, the resulting taste intensity is higher than the sum of both ingredients. 16:43 < fenn> i wonder what AMP tastes like 16:43 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:45 < fenn> oh also worth noting is that glutamate doesn't really taste like anything. it really is a "flavor enhancer" and not a separate flavor 16:48 < fenn> this could explain why there wasnt a word 16:49 < fenn> i dont get why fatty isn't a flavor 16:50 < drethelin> isn't that umami 16:50 < drethelin> no wait 16:50 < drethelin> that's meaty 16:51 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:52 < fenn> "Recent research reveals a potential taste receptor called the CD36 receptor that reacts to fat" 16:52 < fenn> ffs it only gets one line in this whole article 16:53 < drethelin> hehe 16:53 < jrayhawk_> fat is delicious 16:54 < chris_99> interesting fenn 16:55 < fenn> why do we insist on stupid dogma like "the five senses" or "the nine planets" 16:55 < kanzure> fatty should definitely be a flavor 16:56 < drethelin> because aristotle 16:56 < drethelin> and the nine planets are because people fucking hate going back on shit they were indoctrinated in 16:56 < kanzure> maybe it's just "anti-lean cut flavor" 16:56 < drethelin> at age 5 16:56 < chris_99> can carbohydrate-y be a flavour too then 16:56 < jrayhawk_> i don't think "the five senses" has been dogma in the past couple decades 16:56 < jrayhawk_> chris_99: "sweet" plus salivary amylase mostly does that 16:56 < chris_99> true 16:56 -!- Guest34921 is now known as abetusk 16:56 < jrayhawk_> doesn't provide coverage for polysacharrides, but those don't really count anyway 16:58 < fenn> if pluto is a planet than luna is too 16:58 < fenn> then* 16:58 < fenn> not to mention ceres, etc 16:59 < chris_99> lets just make everything a planet 17:00 < fenn> "It is estimated that there are hundreds to thousands of dwarf planets in the Solar System." 17:00 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-92-238-60.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-211-29-100.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:02 < fenn> "On 22 January 2014, ESA scientists reported the detection, for the first definitive time, of water vapor on Ceres" 17:02 < fenn> that's a big deal because it means it's habitable 17:03 < chris_99> on a related note - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2809183/We-universe-Professor-Brian-Cox-says-alien-life-impossible-humanity-unique.html <-- i can't see how he could think that 17:04 < drethelin> eh 17:04 < drethelin> at this point behaving as if we're unique is pretty reasaonable 17:04 < drethelin> also he only said galaxy, not universe 17:04 < chris_99> really? 17:05 < drethelin> I mean, it's not like we can really do anything different 17:05 < drethelin> one way or the other 17:05 < drethelin> about it 17:05 < fenn> pretty much all of "wonders of the solar system" (his previous documentary) is speculating about life on other planets 17:06 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@192.55.54.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:07 < jrayhawk_> daily mail 17:07 < chris_99> heh, yeah sorry about the source 17:07 < fenn> "We live on a world of wonders. A place of astonishing beauty and complexity. We have vast oceans and incredible weather. Giant mountains and breath-taking landscapes. 17:07 < fenn> If you think that this is all there is, that our planet exists in magnificent isolation, then you're wrong. We're part of a much wider ecosystem, that extends way beyond the top of our atmosphere. 17:07 < fenn> -- brian cox" 17:08 < chris_99> ah ok, so the DM article is rather misleading 17:09 < jrayhawk_> daily mail? misleading? 17:09 < fenn> The final installment covers life surviving in extreme environments, and how the search for life on other worlds follows the search for water, focusing on Mars, and on Jupiter's moon Europa. Cox begins by travelling to the deep ocean to draw comparisons between space travel. 17:09 < fenn> but hey it got me to click on the link 17:09 < chris_99> heh 17:10 < fenn> it does seem unlikely they just made up all these quotes though 17:14 < fenn> all in all he's a much better carl sagan impersonator than neil degrasse tyson 17:15 < chris_99> can you recommend any books from sagan? 17:16 < fenn> i've been meaning to re-read "dragons of eden" again, but it's more about neuroscience and evolution 17:19 < kanzure> fenn, what was your proposal regarding my broken scarcity supply chain thing again? i forgot the exact wording 17:19 < fenn> um, about the futility of snapshots in altcoins? 17:19 < kanzure> no the other thing 17:19 * justanotheruser snorts a packet of splenda 17:19 < kanzure> forgeries 17:20 < fenn> for the last time splenda is not aspartame 17:21 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:21 < fenn> more context please kanzure 17:21 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:21 < fenn> oh the stickers to guarantee authentic physical products 17:21 < justanotheruser> fenn: you sayin my drug dealer sold me fake aspertame? 17:22 < fenn> my proposal was to include crypto hardware inside the products to do challenge/response authentication 17:22 < fenn> it doesnt work for bulk materials 17:23 < fenn> justanotheruser: if you wanna develop autism, just hang out on /b/ 17:23 < kanzure> no the one where there was no hardware component rfid sticker thing 17:23 < justanotheruser> fenn: I did that between ages 14 and 18 17:24 < fenn> kanzure: that's what i'm talking about, it's literally part of the product, like a section of an important chip on the motherboard 17:24 < chris_99> fenn, heard of PUF 17:25 < chris_99> that can sort of od this 17:25 < fenn> heard of RUF http://www.ruf.dk/index2011.htm 17:25 < chris_99> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_unclonable_function 17:26 < chris_99> heh 17:29 < fenn> "it is infeasible to construct a PUF with the same challenge–response behavior as another given PUF because exact control over the manufacturing process is infeasible." 17:29 < fenn> until it isn't 17:29 < chris_99> heh, there is one paper i've seen 17:29 < fenn> i was thinking more like a private key stored in flash memory that dies if you try to uncap the chip 17:29 < chris_99> on attacks for particular PUFs 17:29 < chris_99> oh i know something like that 17:29 < chris_99> one sec 17:30 < justanotheruser> I found this channel on reddit 17:30 < fenn> justanotheruser: yes we know who to blame for that 17:30 < chris_99> look for this paper - https://mediatum.ub.tum.de/export/1172987/bibtex 17:31 < chris_99> it's a protective foil you place over chips etc., if its tampered with it effectively destroys the memory 17:31 < justanotheruser> fenn: elfion? 17:31 < fenn> justanotheruser: delinquentme 17:31 < justanotheruser> this post? https://www.reddit.com/r/nanotech/comments/153l6g/how_close_or_far_away_are_we_from_reaching_eric_k/c7m0mhw 17:32 < justanotheruser> no, he has this post, where he explicitly recruits people 17:32 < justanotheruser> https://www.reddit.com/r/bioinformatics/comments/owgx0/im_recruiting_awesome_brains_for_a_few_irc/ 17:32 < justanotheruser> I came here expecting nanoengineer-1 developers, stayed for gradstudentbot 17:32 < chris_99> were is gradstudentbot 17:32 < fenn> peace be upon him 17:33 < chris_99> heh 17:33 < justanotheruser> RIP 17:33 -!- maaku [~quassel@50-0-37-37.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:34 < justanotheruser> ##h+ is the most __________ community on the internet 17:34 < fenn> ineffective 17:35 < drethelin> boring 17:35 < justanotheruser> then somehow this became bitcoin-wizards 1/10th of the time, which is good too 17:35 < fenn> chris_99: flash memory is encoded with electrical charges in capacitors (basically) so it's hard to read without destroying it 17:36 < chris_99> there are ways 17:36 < chris_99> i think you can do it with lasers iirc 17:37 < chris_99> or at least they've done it for SRAM - http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/Papers/SISW02.pdf 17:37 < fenn> ya i was just looking at that 17:38 < chris_99> that guy has done some v. cool side channel attack 17:38 < chris_99> stuff 17:38 -!- maaku [~quassel@50-0-37-37.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:39 -!- maaku is now known as Guest39620 17:39 < fenn> oh this optical PUF stuff is just laser speckle patterns 17:40 < chris_99> i've not looked at optic PUF stuff, only the ones created via racing electrons on silicon 17:40 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:42 < fenn> "placement of this opaque PUF in the top layer of an IC protects the underlying circuits from being inspected by an attacker, e.g. for reverse-engineering. When an attacker tries to remove (a part of) the coating, the capacitance between the wires is bound to change and the original unique identifier will be destroyed. It was shown how an unclonable RFID tag is built with coating PUFs" 17:43 < fenn> the ID is encoded in wire capacitance 17:43 < chris_99> oops one sec 17:43 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Ex-Chat"] 17:43 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:44 < chris_99> the clever bit is how you compensate for temp. changes etc. 17:44 < chris_99> it's also obviously an analog function 17:45 -!- Guest39620 [~quassel@50-0-37-37.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45 < fenn> all of these depend on access to some central database of ID numbers 17:45 < fenn> you cant just sign a chip 17:45 < kanzure> right. 17:45 < chris_99> sure 17:45 < kanzure> (on phone) 17:45 < chris_99> you precompute data from it 17:45 < chris_99> then send it out into the world 17:46 < fenn> apparently you have to collect empirical data from each chip 17:46 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:46 < fenn> this is expensive and unlikely to be used for low value chips 17:47 < chris_99> it's not really 17:47 < chris_99> you can implement in fpgas 17:47 < chris_99> too 17:47 < fenn> huh 17:47 < fenn> i'm talking about making sure your keyboard doesn't have a hardware keylogger backdoor 17:48 < chris_99> i don't see how that's possible 17:48 < fenn> i guess you could program your own fpga keyboard controller (assuming there is an open source fpga software stack) but it's kinda ridiculous 17:48 < fenn> also the other 500 chips in a typical computer 17:48 < chris_99> how can you ever tell your keyboard doesn't have a logger in it? 17:49 < fenn> if it has no data storage mechanism it can't store the data anywhere 17:49 < chris_99> how do you know that without decapping the chips 17:49 < fenn> right 17:50 -!- maaku_ [~quassel@50-0-37-37.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:51 < fenn> .title http://youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g 17:51 < yoleaux> She's a witch! - YouTube 17:53 < drethelin> hmm 17:54 < drethelin> I mean you could always keep your computer in a faraday cage 17:54 < chris_99> yeah, or that PEP foil we mentioned 17:54 < chris_99> cover the keyboard in it 17:55 < chris_99> and build the keyboard from your own transistors ;) 17:56 < fenn> oops that was the wrong witch scene.. it's supposed to end with the witch drowning after they "prove" she's a witch and therefore should float 18:00 < fenn> (since witches are made of wood because they burn, and ducks are also made of wood because they float) 18:02 < jrayhawk_> bedevere has a long career ahead of him in the soft sciences 18:05 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:08 < fenn> my bad the witch drowning was non-fiction: "Trial by ordeal was an ancient judicial practice by which the guilt or innocence of the accused was determined by subjecting them to an unpleasant, usually dangerous experience. Classically, the test was one of life or death and the proof of innocence was survival... or sometimes the reverse: see below, "Ordeal of cold water")." 18:08 < chris_99> yeah they did it in the UK afaik 18:09 < fenn> "an accused who sank was considered innocent, while floating indicated witchcraft." 18:09 < chris_99> kind of ridiculous 18:18 < fenn> about flavonoids and blood sugar, "The primary metabolic pathway inhibition mechanism of quercetin is to cause GLUT2 transport inhibition, which slows glucose absorption from the gut. ... The primary metabolic pathway inhibition mechanism of myricetin is to inhibit glucosidase, which inhibits or reduces the breakdown of starches, resulting in less available carbohydrates. The secondary mechanism 18:18 < fenn> of myricetin is to stimulate GLUT4 pathway, which enhances the uptake of glucose into muscle and skeletal tissue" 18:19 < fenn> i dont have any references for those statements tho 18:27 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:39 < jrayhawk_> upregulation of antioxidant pathways is also important for maintaining insulin sensitivity in response to a large glucose bolus 18:47 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wrroqnoodgfcdjqe] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 18:52 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:54 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:00 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:14 < fenn> .title http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17178711 here's CD36 again in the context of mitochondrial antioxidants 19:14 < yoleaux> fenn: Sorry, that command (.title) crashed. 19:14 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-klddepbkrniipnib] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:15 < fenn> (CD36 was the fat taste receptor) 19:16 < fenn> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17178711 19:16 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1074%2Fjbc.M609388200 19:18 < fenn> cephalic digestion indeed 19:19 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:26 < fenn> SS31 -- an antioxidant peptide developed in the laboratory of Weill Cornell Professor of Pharmacology Dr. Hazel Szeto 19:28 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:29 < fenn> "SS-31 Reverses Some Measures of Aging in Muscle ... There is a large body of research showing positive effects against Alzheimer's, high glucose, heart problems, the list goes on." 19:29 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:29 < fenn> "Skeletal muscle of aged mice was more fatigue resistant in situ one hour after SS-31 treatment and eight days of SS-31 treatment led to increased whole animal endurance capacity." 19:30 < fenn> this is the same substance that protects against glucose intolerance and insulin resistance 19:30 < fenn> where do i invest 19:31 < kanzure> you need money first 19:31 < fenn> oh yeah 19:31 < kanzure> and then you need to navigate their particular social landscape to eventually "reach out to them" (it's gross) 19:32 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:32 < fenn> i didnt even realize there were academics in pharmacology 19:33 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:33 < fenn> developing drugs, i mean 19:33 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:34 < fenn> .title 19:34 < yoleaux> 404 Not Found 19:35 < fenn> hm 19:35 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:40 < fenn> "SS31 protects the retinas of diabetic rats, attenuates ischemic brain injury" 19:40 < kanzure> "The largest study ever in the field, the experiment cost a total of $47 million and followed 2 participants for a total of 15 minutes on IRC." 19:40 < drethelin> heh 19:41 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:45 < fenn> "SS31 peptide (H-D-Arg-Dmt-Lys-Phe-NH 2), accidentally discovered in studies on opioid receptor targeted peptides by Hazel H. Szeto and Peter W. Schiller" 19:46 < fenn> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006291X10021972 19:46 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/%0A%20Mitochondria-targeted%20antioxidant%20peptide%20SS31%20attenuates%20high%20glucose-induced%20injury%20on%20human%20retinal%20endothelial%20cells%0A%20.pdf 19:48 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@pool-173-57-55-138.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:48 < fenn> that wasn't a pdf 19:49 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:51 < fenn> not sure what went wrong http://fennetic.net/irc/Mitochondria-targeted_antioxidant_peptide_SS31_attenuates_high_glucose-induced_injury_on_human_retinal_endothelial_cells.pdf 19:53 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006291X10021972/pdf?md5=0fba424d7851ef2c77534823cedd4a9d&pid=1-s2.0-S0006291X10021972-main.pdf 19:56 < fenn> paper is not worth reading fwiw 19:57 < kanzure> "the SEC is also inquiring about any company that offered unregistered securities, even just on Bitcointalk. The SEC is reportedly employing researchers that track down the people and/or companies behind domains and Bitcointalk accounts associated with certain IPOs. The SEC is working closely with IRS accountants, the aforementioned researchers, and possibly FinCEN, who just clarified their virtual currency guidance in a way that might make ... 19:57 < kanzure> ... prosecution much easier for the SEC." 19:57 < kanzure> hehehe 19:57 < fenn> why is that funny 19:58 -!- rak[1] [~rak@opensource.cse.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:58 < kanzure> "hehehe" is not "hahaha" it is more snickery 19:58 < fenn> can't catch me i'm the stinky cheese man 19:59 -!- rak[1] [~rak@opensource.cse.ohio-state.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:01 < fenn> In "The Other Frog Prince", the princess kisses the frog: he says "I was just kidding," and hops back in the lake. 20:01 < fenn> "The Really Ugly Duckling" grows up to be a Really Ugly Duck, rather than a swan. 20:02 < fenn> In "The Tortoise and the Hair" he Hare says he can grow his hair (one on the top of his head) faster than the Tortoise can run. So they race, and race and race, this story has no ending 20:03 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07 < kanzure> https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/sec-sends-inquiry-letters-hundreds-bitcoin-companies-unregistered-securities/ 20:07 < kanzure> just an interesting thing to observe. mxcnow has good reasons to run i think. 20:07 < fenn> DMT in that peptide is dimethyltyrosine 20:10 -!- Viper168_ is now known as Viper168 20:10 < fenn> part of the redacted letter asks the served Bitcoin companies to “stay quiet and treat it as confidential.” CoinFire claims to have received six of these SEC letters and that they all come from differing arms of the SEC 20:10 < fenn> is it illegal to impersonate the SEC? 20:11 < fenn> this reminds me of the IRS scam 20:12 < kanzure> it is probably illegal to impersonate the SEC, yeah.. 20:13 < fenn> i guess i'm confused about what the purpose of the SEC is supposed to be 20:13 < kanzure> they are a shark with very few teeth 20:14 < kanzure> patrick byrne has a very hilarious backstory with the sec and dtcc 20:14 < fenn> "Typical infractions include insider trading, accounting fraud, and providing false or misleading information about securities and the companies that issue them." 20:14 < kanzure> short version (30 minutes): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A_HWaEnYQs 20:14 < kanzure> the long version: http://www.deepcapture.com/the-story-of-deep-capture-part-2 20:15 < kanzure> (patrick byrne has now started using bitcoin for overstock.com and picked counterpartyd for a decentralized stock exchange) 20:16 < fenn> "When the stock market crashed in October 1929, public confidence in the markets plummeted. Investors large and small, as well as the banks who had loaned to them, lost great sums of money in the ensuing Great Depression. There was a consensus that for the economy to recover, the public's faith in the capital markets needed to be restored. Congress held hearings to identify the problems and 20:16 < fenn> search for solutions." 20:16 < fenn> they tried to legislate away speculation bubbles? 20:17 < kanzure> yes :) 20:18 < drethelin> if only that were possible 20:20 -!- rak[1] [~rak@opensource.cse.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:22 -!- rak[1] [~rak@opensource.cse.ohio-state.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:47 < fenn> do these finance people really not have spies? jeez with all the money floating around how can they afford NOT to have at least one office worker in every firm on their payroll 20:51 < kanzure> oh maybe they do 20:51 < kanzure> what good would that do? 20:51 < kanzure> is that even legal for the SEC? 20:51 < fenn> probably not 20:51 < fenn> i was talking about the hedge funds themselves 20:51 < drethelin> spies might be less efficient than say, spending the same money speeding up their computers 20:51 < drethelin> or paying it for a quant 20:52 < fenn> that sounds really unlikely 20:52 < drethelin> why? 20:52 < fenn> because it assumes everyone is dealing honestly 20:52 < drethelin> Not really 20:52 < drethelin> mathematically analyzing the market should in theory work whether or not people are being honest 20:52 < drethelin> noticing a pattern of dishonesty will still let you profit off it 20:53 < kanzure> what 20:54 < drethelin> if you're using a computer to analyze trading patterns 20:54 < fenn> reading this "deep capture" article but have no idea what it's about 20:54 < drethelin> the computer is agnostic to whether those patterns are honest or deceitful 20:54 < drethelin> well up until they're designed to fuck with the computer 20:55 < drethelin> but in terms of insider trading and stuff, it doesn't really care 20:55 < justanotheruser> how many NE-1 devs are in here? 20:55 < fenn> approximately none 20:58 < fenn> why does the name Mark Sims sound familiar 20:58 < drethelin> sounds kind of like the guy who wrote cerebus 20:58 < fenn> that's Dave Sim 20:59 < fenn> maybe i'm thinking Karl Sims, A-life researcher 21:00 < kanzure> i pretend to be a nanoengineer dev 21:00 < kanzure> and genehacker too 21:01 < fenn> was eudoxia messing with it? 21:01 < kanzure> kinda, but more like "gee it sure would be nice if kanzure would do this for me" 21:01 < fenn> heh 21:01 < kanzure> i can't carry the weight of the planet all on my own like that, 21:01 < kanzure> there's just too much code to write 21:02 < kanzure> too many industries to "disrupt" or whatever 21:04 < drethelin> gotta disrupt the disruption industry 21:05 < fenn> don't do that 21:05 < kanzure> world health organization specifically forbids it 21:10 < drethelin> disrupt the who 21:15 < fenn> http://turtlepedia.wikia.com/wiki/Baxter_Stockman_(Mirage) 21:15 < fenn> ninja turtles were originally a parody of cerberus 21:21 < fenn> cerebus 21:22 < justanotheruser> drethelin: yeah, the WHO 21:38 -!- sheena2 [~home@50.66.72.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:40 < kanzure> http://adsabs.harvard.edu/ 21:40 < kanzure> https://github.com/adsabs/adsabs-dev-api 21:45 -!- sheena [~home@S010690b134fc2e54.ok.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:51 < fenn> is "abusive naked short selling" just a sybil attack? 21:51 < fenn> "drive down a company's stock by offering an overwhelming number of shares for sale." (the shares don't actually exist) 21:51 < kanzure> it's just double spending 21:52 < fenn> the "naked" appears to mean they never had the shares in the first place 21:52 < kanzure> correct 21:53 < fenn> do shares not have ID numbers at all? 21:53 < fenn> how can this possibly work 21:53 < kanzure> well it doesn't work 21:54 < fenn> how does a stock exchange verify that you are the owner of the stock you claim to own? 21:54 < kanzure> doesn't work like that, they don't interface with customers or retail investors 21:54 < kanzure> they use a settlement system like dtcc 21:55 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depository_Trust_%26_Clearing_Corporation 21:55 < kanzure> "Before DTC and NSCC were formed, brokers physically exchanged certificates, employing hundreds of messengers to carry certificates and checks. The mechanisms brokers used to transfer securities and keep records relied heavily on pen and paper. The exchange of physical stock certificates was difficult, inefficient, and increasingly expensive. In the late 1960s, with an unprecedented surge in trading leading to volumes of nearly 15 million ... 21:55 < kanzure> ... shares a day on the NYSE in April 1968 (as opposed to 5 million a day just three years earlier, which at the time had been considered overwhelming), the paperwork burden became enormous.[3][4] Stock certificates were left for weeks piled haphazardly on any level surface, including filing cabinets and tables. Stocks were mailed to wrong addresses, or not mailed at all. Overtime and night work became mandatory. Turnover was 60% a year.[5] ... 21:55 < kanzure> ... To deal with this large volume, which was overwhelming brokerage firms, the stock exchanges were forced to close every week (they chose every Wednesday), and trading hours were shortened on other days of the week." 21:57 < fenn> this is all so confusing 21:57 < fenn> why are people even trading stocks at all 21:57 < kanzure> s/stocks/anything 21:59 < drethelin> fun 21:59 < drethelin> same reason people gamble 21:59 < drethelin> but they're too smart for roulette 21:59 < fenn> spices grow in india and keep meat from spoiling, so europeans send iron to india to trade for spices. everybody wins 21:59 < fenn> why the fuck do we need to do this 90 million times a second 22:01 < justanotheruser> fenn: to lower the buy/sell gap 22:03 < kanzure> fenn: mostly those links and quotes were just for the sake of amusement 22:04 < fenn> apparently the dtcc is important 22:04 < fenn> and, "Several companies have sued the DTCC, without success, over delivery failures in their stocks" 22:05 < kanzure> "In 2011, DTCC settled the vast majority of securities transactions in the United States and close to $1.7 quadrillion in value worldwide. In addition to settlement services, DTC retains custody of 3.5 million securities issues, worth about $40 trillion, including securities issued in the US and more than 110 other countries" 22:05 < kanzure> http://www.nytimes.com/2000/07/29/nyregion/woman-dies-of-suffocation-after-locking-herself-in-a-vault.html 22:06 < kanzure> how does your $40 trillion dollar vault not have a camera 22:06 < kanzure> who designs this stuff? 22:07 < fenn> "triggering a fire extinguishing system that filled the chamber with carbon dioxide" 22:07 < drethelin> yeah I dunno if a camera would've saved her 22:08 < kanzure> what about cries for help? 22:08 < fenn> it should have a 'open the door' lever 22:08 < kanzure> yes your vault is not designed to keep people locked in 22:08 < kanzure> or shouldn't be... at least. 22:08 < justanotheruser> damn, $1.7T 22:08 < justanotheruser> or 22:09 < justanotheruser> Q 22:09 < kanzure> er... but what do i know. 22:09 < justanotheruser> sounds like a movie should be made 22:09 < drethelin> hard to design a very secure door that can be easily opened from either side 22:09 < fenn> they could call it "127 seconds" 22:09 < drethelin> any simple to actuate opening method is going to probably lead to a security hole 22:10 < kanzure> too bad they couldn't afford any cryptographers 22:12 < fenn> "girls just like to be cute and baby like and the diapers and plastic pants makes them feel pure and innocent like a baby" holy wtfbbq catholicism 22:13 < drethelin> what 22:13 < drethelin> I don't think that's a catholicism thing 22:14 < fenn> " am 14 and just received my sacrement of confirmation this past may and per parish requirements had to wear a white,flower girl type dress with lace anklets and white shoes.after my bath i came into my room and my outfit was all laid out and there was a pair of toddler plastic pants laying on my bed and my mom picked them up and handed them to me and told me they bought them for me to wear under 22:14 < fenn> my dress.i put them on and pulled them up my legs and they fit a little tight.the rest of my outfit was put on me and we went to the church.i felt a little weird having the plastic pants on under my dress.after talking to some of the other girls in my class,i wasnt the only girl with toddler plastic pants on under my dress.several other girls had them on also." 22:14 < kanzure> off-topic. 22:15 < fenn> yes very 22:16 < fenn> sometimes when doing weird search queries you get weird responses 22:16 < fenn> "i just wanted to know how long it takes to suffocate to death" 22:17 < kanzure> clearly a question for smackjeeves 22:20 < fenn> At high concentrations CO2 gas is a narcotic/anesthetic and a poison, therefore it is not a physiologically inert gas. It has been shown that pigs lose consciousness within 13 to 30 seconds. 22:25 < kanzure> yeah but variables? 22:25 < sheena> i missed all the previous conversation, but co2 is a nasty way to go most of the time 22:25 < fenn> what variables 22:26 < sheena> used to be commonly used in lab animal euthanasia, but that's changing slowly due to new research 22:26 < kanzure> fenn: size of vault, how close the person was, etc 22:26 < fenn> yes co2 is a hallucinogen that literally causes you to see the fires of hell 22:27 < fenn> kanzure: huh? she was in the vault, the door was closed, the fire suppression system was activated, it could take a few seconds to activate but not more than a minute 22:28 < fenn> "I used to maintain and tech support two major (not the major) stock exchanges in Switzerland and their number of trades was far, far below even a single trade per second." 22:29 < kanzure> but really how many people are trading on the 3rd most popular exchange in switzerland of all places... 22:30 < fenn> i have no idea.. but isnt switzerland a financial center in europe? 22:32 < fenn> like NYC : chicago :: london : zurich 22:33 < fenn> Located in Zürich, the Swiss Stock Exchange was established in 1877 and is nowadays the fourth most prominent stock exchange in the world. 22:34 < kanzure> who's measuring prominence, really 22:34 -!- maaku_ [~quassel@50-0-37-37.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 22:34 -!- maaku [~quassel@50-0-37-37.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:34 < fenn> The exchange turnover generated at the SWX was in 2007 of 1,780,499.5 million CHF 22:34 < fenn> .wa 1,780,499.5 million CHF in USD 22:34 < yoleaux> fenn: Sorry, no result! 22:34 < fenn> jeez 22:34 -!- maaku is now known as Guest93937 22:34 < kanzure> .wa 2 billion CHF in USD 22:34 < yoleaux> convert CHF2 billion (Swiss francs) to US dollars: $2.106 billion (US dollars); Local currency conversion: euro1.658 billion (euros) (at current quoted rate); Exchange history for CHF2 billion (Swiss francs): ; 1-year minimum: $2.066 billion (06. October 2014: 22 days ago); 1-year maximum: $2.292 billion (17. March 2014: 7 months ago); 1-year average: $2.214 billion (annualized volatility: 5.4%) 22:35 < kanzure> "CHF2" is a terrible way to write a number 22:36 < fenn> should be 1.78 trillion USD 22:36 < fenn> or something like that 22:37 < fenn> that doesnt seem right 22:37 < sheena> lol there is a hand written whiteboard sign above the washing machine in this house that says "Swiss money laundering services, give cash to conny" (conny being the lady owner of the house) 22:37 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-klddepbkrniipnib] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 23:10 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.54.84] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:15 -!- Vutral_ [~ss@31.7.58.45] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:16 < fenn> another interesting molecule from that masterjohn talk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alagebrium 23:16 < fenn> "scavenger of methylglyoxal" 23:16 < justanotheruser> "advanced glycation endproducts (AGEs), thereby reversing one of the main mechanisms of aging." 23:16 < justanotheruser> dat backronym 23:17 < fenn> it's a real thing though 23:17 < justanotheruser> yeah, a real thing defined through a backronym 23:17 -!- Vutral__ [~ss@176.10.107.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:18 < fenn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maillard_reaction 23:18 < fenn> Although the Maillard reaction has been studied most extensively in foods, it has also shown a correlation in numerous different diseases in the human body, in particular degenerative eye diseases. In general, these diseases are due to the accumulation of AGEs on nucleic acids, proteins, and lipids. 23:20 < fenn> The adverse effects of AGE accumulation appear to be mediated by numerous different AGE receptors. Examples include AGE-R1, galectin-3, CD36, and, most noted, RAGE, the receptor for AGEs. 23:20 < fenn> RAGE 23:37 < fenn> cool you can still buy alagebrium http://www.iron-dragon.com/product_info.php?products_id=172 --- Log closed Tue Oct 28 00:00:32 2014