--- Log opened Thu Oct 30 00:00:35 2014
00:01 < justanotheruser> kanzure: Miners have an incentive to include transactions with high fees not only
00:01 < justanotheruser> because "more money is good" but also because it removes the pool of available
00:01 < justanotheruser> transaction fees that other miners could benefit from.
00:01 < justanotheruser> I don't understand why miners have an incentive to remove fees from the pool of available tx fees
00:02 < justanotheruser> if it is because other miners could use those fees to buy mining hardware and lower your reward, you should elaborate on that
00:03 < justanotheruser> "Incentives to provide accurate timestamps. These are roughly"
00:06 < justanotheruser> short term miners probably have an incentive to produce a late block timestamp on the last block before a diff change, late enough so other miners accept it while it lowers the difficulty and increases their profits for the next 2016 blocks. This will lower the time between the next 2016 blocks by however much they increased the previous 2016 block timespan meaning the next difficulty after this adjustment will be ...
00:06 < justanotheruser> ... abnormally slightly high. This is good for short term miners because the sooner blocks are more profitable to them with their depreciating equiment.
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00:08 < justanotheruser> "so maximum ``safe'' skew is 0.60\%"
00:08 < justanotheruser> 0.6% of what???
00:09 < justanotheruser> the max safe skew should be 2 hours assuming the vast majority have their clocks right and even if they don't, mining pools relay directly to other pools, so wrong clocks probably aren't a problem.
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04:54 < kanzure> justanotheruser: those are good thoughts
04:56 < justanotheruser> most of the other stuff seems to be "incentive to keep the network alive and make your money have value"
05:01 < justanotheruser> kanzoracle, is there an easy tool to display latex on git? I'd rather not copy this into my editor to view it if possible and I think git could be an excellent tool for collaborating on documents like these, though I haven't thought of git as being a tool for this before.
05:01 < justanotheruser> /runon
05:02 < justanotheruser> hmm
05:02 < justanotheruser> Incentives to relay transactions.
05:07 < justanotheruser> There are the disincentives to relay transactions including the small cost of verification and bandwidth along with slightly helping someone competing with you for block space. With sidechains, competition for block space shouldn't be a problem and transaction validation isn't very expensive. Another disincentive is an increase in monetary supply. For the breif period of time that tx isn't usable by anyone, the set of ...
05:07 < justanotheruser> ... "usable" bitcoins which may slightly increase the value of your holdings. There are incentives to relay including supporting the network and helping prevent the currency from dying.
05:08 < justanotheruser> The disincentives for transaction relaying are very weak while the single incentive I could name is weak to moderate I argue.
05:09 < justanotheruser> s/"useable" bitcoins/"usable bitcoins would decrease/
05:10 < justanotheruser> the fact is that there isn't much effect an individual can have in terms of preventing a tx from getting relayed and as long as that is true, these disincentives aren't that strong (you would be wasting programmer hours trying to implement this since it is a change that hardly effects the network)
05:10 < justanotheruser> oh, actually I've got a really good disincentive, one sec
05:11 < justanotheruser> legal risks: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2653
05:12 < justanotheruser> and false legal risks at that
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05:34 < kanzure> "you would be wasting programmer hours trying to implement this since it is a change that hardly effects the network"
05:34 < kanzure> er, implementing what in particular? thx
05:35 < kanzure> http://duartes.org/gustavo/blog/post/what-does-an-idle-cpu-do/
05:35 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8529658
05:35 < yoleaux> What Does an Idle CPU Do? | Hacker News
05:35 < kanzure> http://www.windytan.com/2014/10/visualizing-hex-bytes-with-unicode-emoji.html
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05:51 < justanotheruser> When will humans no longer need sleep, is science anywhere near that point?
05:51 < justanotheruser> I'm getting tired of wasting 2/5 my day
05:52 < justanotheruser> reading gnusha 05:34 < kanzure> er, implementing what in particular? thx
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05:53 < justanotheruser> implementing a client with a policy of accepting and validating tx, but not relaying to anyone.
05:54 < justanotheruser> It takes a small amount of research to set this up and it probably isn't worth it unless you're intentionally trying to be malicious
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05:57 < kanzure> oh i see what you mean, righto
05:57 < kanzure> even in the absence of explicit software implementations i think that certain trends can still occur because of incentives
05:57 < kanzure> although perhaps not this specific one :)
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06:03 < kanzure> http://torrentfreak.com/gottfrid-svartholm-found-guilty-in-hacking-trial-141030/
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06:05 < justanotheruser> kanzure: btw, a client that doesn't relay fees is tough to find on google. I've probably expended more dollars in mcdonald-worker seconds by now than I would have paid in a year in bandwidth
06:06 < kanzure> wait, it wasn't just a typical client though
06:06 < kanzure> for example, luke-jr's software isn't open source, is it?
06:07 < justanotheruser> hm?
06:07 < justanotheruser> luke-jr is a huge free software advocate. I don't know of any of his software that isn't open source.
06:08 < justanotheruser> you mean his spam censoring client? Thats probably another incentive you should cover.
06:08 < kanzure> eligius is a well-maintained pool where he dumps in his specific rules
06:08 < justanotheruser> satoshidice has an incentive to spam the blockchain with useless messages
06:09 < justanotheruser> users have an incentive to block this spam
06:10 < kanzure> yeah i don't know if his rules are public or not
06:10 < kanzure> i'm not seeing anything here https://github.com/luke-jr?tab=repositories
06:10 < justanotheruser> he doesn't like github I think
06:11 < justanotheruser> his client https://gitorious.org/bitcoin/luke-jr-bitcoin/source/09a7cf58249c69ffb2a0c985cd42897fd087b49b:
06:11 < kanzure> ah i think this is his branch git://gitorious.org/~Luke-Jr/bitcoin/luke-jr-bitcoin.git
06:11 < kanzure> s/branch/fork
06:11 < kanzure> for eligius possibly
06:13 < justanotheruser> probably
06:14 < kanzure> guess i should ask him
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06:16 < justanot1eruser> heres the actual pool if you're curious https://gitorious.org/bitcoin/eloipool/source/70e71f71a69b48ddf73ef2943f6988422c56c5b9:
06:17 < kanzure> hm not many recent changes
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06:18 < justanot1eruser> kanzure: btw, that document is a really good idea. I think such a document should be made for most bitcoin applications.
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06:20 < justanot1eruser> and probably very many irl applications.
06:20 < justanot1eruser> has anyone done this for another application?
06:21 < kanzure> which document are we talking about?
06:21 < kanzure> i don't know who i am or what's going on
06:22  * justanot1eruser smacks kanzure with a latex incentive listing document
06:22 < kanzure> oh oh wait i know that one
06:22 < kanzure> yes that makes sense, even
06:23 < kanzure> because you have been talking about those things..... right.
06:23 < justanot1eruser> I try to make sense
06:23 < kanzure> btw, it would be very helpful to me if you were to open up issues on that repo for particularly troubling things that you disagree with
06:23 < justanot1eruser> everything I disagreed with was said right there, but yeah, I should contribute to the other incentives.
06:24 < kanzure> how about at least an issue that links to http://gnusha.org/logs/2014-10-30.log then?
06:26 < justanot1eruser> Err, I'm trying to minimize references to my name until I shed this acct (and the crazy people on IRC I don't want knowing my name).
06:26 < justanot1eruser> and there are people who have threatened me, said they want my identity so they can harass my employer, etc
06:26 < kanzure> oh, was that me?
06:26 < kanzure> i hope not
06:27 < justanot1eruser> nah, I'm scared of you for different reasons
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06:28 < justanot1eruser> you're probably in the 95th percentile for saneness on irc
06:29 < kanzure> i'm not sure if that's good or bad
06:29 < justanot1eruser> I've never heard you say anything that I thought might indicate you had any mental problems
06:29 < justanot1eruser> well thats actually a lie. ADD is a mental problem
06:30 < justanot1eruser> but pretty much everyone is either too serious or crazy in some way on IRC
06:31 < kanzure> http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/201/0/c/add_vs__adhd__the_difference_by_tailsfan95-d4136r5.jpg
06:32 < justanot1eruser> I joined this cryptodev channel. The guy running the channel was really nice and we talked every day, then he started going on rants out of nowhere saying #bitcoin was corrupt and run by jews
06:32 < justanot1eruser> I think its weird that ADHD is a superset of ADD now
06:32 < kanzure> actually i guess i'm more familiar with http://resource.mmgn.com/Gallery/full/YPBF9KK4.jpg
06:32 < justanot1eruser> do you have ADD?
06:32 < justanot1eruser> or ADHD type disassociated or whatever
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06:33 < kanzure> hyperactivity-positive
06:33 < justanot1eruser> hmm
06:34 < justanot1eruser> are you ever on IRC without meds?
06:34 < justanot1eruser> btw, I got IR and I figured out how to work hard :)
06:34 < kanzure> around 1am-4am GMT
06:35 < justanot1eruser> before I would just take it and focus on not work
06:35 < kanzure> ah good
06:35 < justanot1eruser> Just spent 4 hours failing at solving a problem :D
06:35 < justanot1eruser> but it was entertaining and I got somewhere at least :P
06:36 < kanzure> and four hours of debugging does not happen naturally for you?
06:36 < justanot1eruser> kanzure: its more like a once a week thing
06:36 < justanot1eruser> before meds it would be 4 hours spread over a few days
06:36 < kanzure> better schedule your bugs to be spaced out weekly i guess
06:36 < justanot1eruser> indeed
06:37 < justanot1eruser> I actually should start graphing my coding time vs debugging time
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06:43 < kanzure> justanotheruser: do you do software things
06:44 < justanotheruser> kanzure: I don't know what that means
06:45 < justanotheruser> do I write software?
06:45 < justanotheruser> I would like to think I do
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07:02 < kanzure> okay.
07:02 < kanzure> by any chance have you used etcd or consul :p
07:04 < justanotheruser> If I have I didn't know I was
07:09 < kanzure> damn.
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07:18 < yorrick> Anyone know of a good source for hydergine?
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07:54 < archels> "kanzoracle" haha
07:54 < kanzure> WHO DISTURBS ME
07:55 < kanzure> also.. hi.
08:01  * archels sacrifices a goat
08:02 < archels> actually I'm not sure how this works; do I need to ask specific questions or do you just tell me things?
08:16 < justanot1eruser> archels: apparently not
08:16 < justanot1eruser> or maybe oracles can't answer questions about question answering rules
08:17 < justanot1eruser> I think the rule is you get 3 questions per day. If you ask more than that you die in 7 days
08:24 < kanzure> i am busy figuring out cluster leadership things
08:24 < kanzure> --bootstrap-expect --just-work-plz
08:24 < kanzure> http://www.consul.io/docs/guides/bootstrapping.html
08:27 < kanzure> wom 3
08:27 < kanzure> dfadjfoijq
08:32 < justanot1eruser> kanzure: is this related to what you were talking about in wizards?
08:36 < kanzure> nope
08:37 < justanot1eruser> oh, so this is super secret level stuff
08:38 < heath> whee! internet
08:38 < heath> ended up going with a slightly cheaper router, btw: Buffalo WZR-1750DHPD for anyone who cares
08:40 < kanzure> buffalo haha
08:40 < kanzure> justanot1eruser: the most secret, indeed
08:42 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YtMyr_lofA&t=24s
08:42 < yoleaux> Aquya: Blackcurrant (Napalm Remix) - YouTube
08:46 < kanzure> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/minipcr/minipcr-a-dna-discovery-system-for-everyone
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08:56 < heath> kanzure: you laugh sir, but i don't know why
08:57 < kanzure> actually at this point i have a low opinion of almost all networking equipment brands :(
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08:59 < archels> heath: maybe I should have suggested DrayTek. they're a bit on the pricey end though
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09:10 < heath> the router comes with dd-wrt installed, so i'm kind of happy about that
09:10 < heath> but right now, i'm glad to have internet in the home
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09:39 < phillyj> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7848666
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09:43 < phillyj> paperbot: http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/7848666
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09:44 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8532477
09:44 < yoleaux> Hosting for Webhooks and Transform Streams | Hacker News
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10:10 < archels> paperbot: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/bk-2012-1109.ch015
10:11 < kanzure> hrm i think paperbot has been having trouble
10:12 < phillyj> i guessed as much
10:13 < kanzure> ConnectionError: HTTPConnectionPool(host='http', port=80): Max retries exceeded with url: //dx.doi.org/10.1039/c4lc00740a (Caused by <class 'socket.gaierror'>: [Errno -2] Name or service not known)
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10:13 < phillyj> i just found another article
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10:14 < kanzure> paperbot: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/bk-2012-1109.ch015
10:15 < dingo> gai error, that's gai
10:15 < nmz787_i> paperbot: http://dx.doi.org/10.1039/c4lc00740a
10:16 < kanzure> i think the ec2 server is causing this to be broken
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10:18 < kanzure> "Simply mix DNA with the cells then spread directly to a plate… Mix & Go! The competent cells are highly efficient and can be used for cloning, sub-cloning, library construction, etc. These can be purchased in packs of 10 or as a 96-well format."
10:18 < kanzure> spam?
10:18 < nmz787_i> hmm
10:18 < nmz787_i> spam if you don't like cell transformations
10:19 < kanzure> who doesn't?
10:19 < nmz787_i> i will have to check ec2 later since i don't have the keys with me
10:19 < nmz787_i> is it just that we need to add a try except somewhere?
10:19 < kanzure> ideally paperbot should continue to work even if those servers aren't responding
10:19 < nmz787_i> or an if
10:19 < nmz787_i> yeah
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10:26 < archels> kanzure: fyi, turns out that my paper request earlier was already on libgen
10:28 < nmz787_i> PCR machines need to also make espresso for them to become really hip and cool
10:29 < kanzure> that could be arranged
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11:29 < archels> "Substrate-independence. See Organisational invariance"
11:30 < archels> oh man. that's like, almost the opposite.
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11:40  * archels is looking for the origin of the term
11:57 < kanzure> substrate-independence was probably from randal koen
11:57 < kanzure> koene
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12:18 < archels> okay, I finally found a place where he actually defines the term
12:19 < archels> (the More's Transhumanist Reader)
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12:28 < kanzure> "jot search tag:github and not tag:git | less" shows me lots of escape codes and lousy attempts at coloring... what's going wrong?
12:29 < kanzure> oh right, less -r
12:29 < kanzure> is there some standard way to determine whether or sending escape characters for color is a smart thing to do?
12:30 < dingo> yes
12:30 < dingo> wether stdout is a tty
12:30 < dingo> that's what ls(1) does, for example
12:30 < kanzure> i will assume jotmuch is not doing this at the moment.
12:30 < dingo> ls -G would be in color, but ls -G | less is not
12:31 < kanzure> actually, could you briefly look at how jotmuch is doing color and tell me if there's a better way?
12:31 < dingo> show me jotmuch :)
12:31 < kanzure> https://github.com/davidlazar/jotmuch
12:31 < kanzure> actually, i should just remove color from this. there's no reason for a bookmarking tool to use color.
12:32 < dingo> ahh this default_formatstr just hardcodes color
12:32 < kanzure> damn, yeah that's silly
12:33 < dingo> (ucs)C:\Users\jquast\Code\undercloud-salt> python -c 'import os, sys; print(os.isatty(sys.stdout.fileno()))'
12:33 < dingo> True
12:33 < dingo> (ucs)C:\Users\jquast\Code\undercloud-salt> python -c 'import os, sys; print(os.isatty(sys.stdout.fileno()))' | tee
12:33 < dingo> False
12:33 < dingo> so you could make an if statement switch there for that
12:33 < dingo> or define --format
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12:34 < kanzure> got it
12:34 < kanzure> i think their idea of a colorful user interface should be separate from their core bookmarking functions
12:34 < dingo> yes indeed
12:35 < dingo> my 'blessed' library does a thing, where, if stdout is not a tty, it makes all terminal sequence queries return an empty string
12:35 < dingo>  self._does_styling = ((self.is_a_tty or force_styling) and
12:35 < dingo> force_styling is not None)
12:35 < dingo> https://github.com/jquast/blessed/blob/master/blessed/terminal.py#L146
12:38 < kanzure> "terminal sequence... queries"?
12:38 < dingo> yeah
12:38 < dingo> tigetstr(3)
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12:42 < kanzure> thank you
12:42 < dingo> anytime, I <3 terminals
12:47 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pbio.1001251
12:47 < kanzure> .title
12:47 < yoleaux> PLOS Biology: Reconstructing Speech from Human Auditory Cortex
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13:12 < nmz787_i> i thought Python class variables became instance variable after instantiation, am I wrong (was getting funky results when I had the vars defined at the class level, but when I moved them to __init__ and added the self. before, things started working)
13:14 < kanzure> .py import new; foo = new.classobj("foo", (object,), {"x": "hello world"}); x = foo(); y = foo(); print x.x is y.x
13:14 < yoleaux> True
13:15 < nmz787_i> right but you never set the instance .x
13:16 < nmz787_i> .py import new; foo = new.classobj("foo", (object,), {"x": "hello world"}); x = foo(); y = foo(); x.x=15; y.x=20; print x.x is y.x
13:16 < yoleaux> False
13:16 < nmz787_i> .py import new; foo = new.classobj("foo", (object,), {"x": []}); x = foo(); y = foo(); x.x.append(15); y.x.append(20); print x.x is y.x
13:16 < yoleaux> True
13:16 < nmz787_i> that
13:17 < nmz787_i> I guess because [] is an object
13:17 < kanzure> that is clearly a shared value
13:17 < nmz787_i> so instantiation doesn't blow the object away
13:17 < nmz787_i> alright
13:17 < nmz787_i> i guess i thought it made copies
13:17 < nmz787_i> like deep ones
13:18 < nmz787_i> .py import new; foo = new.classobj("foo", (object,), {"x": new.function()});
13:18 < yoleaux> TypeError: function() takes at least 2 arguments (0 given)
13:20 < dingo> they are unbound attributes on a class definition
13:20 < dingo> once instantiated, it is a bound attribute
13:22 < nmz787_i> not sure how to parse what you're saying, but I realize now deepcopy is not happening upon instantiation
13:23 < kanzure> you should also consider looking into __new__
13:23 < kanzure> since you are wondering about __init__ and such
13:25 < dingo> everything is copy by reference in python, not copy-by-value, i think that's your issue
13:26 < dingo> https://gist.github.com/jquast/71e70ddbea65b25bc068
13:28 < delinquentme> deepcopy? nmz?
13:28 < delinquentme> nmz787, *
13:31 < nmz787_i> .py import copy; print type(copy.deepcopy)
13:31 < yoleaux> <type 'function'>
13:31 < nmz787_i> delinquentme: ^
13:32 < nmz787_i> dingo: I get that objects don't get copied, and they're usually mutable
13:32 < nmz787_i> dingo: I literally thought that instantiation made a deepcopy
13:34 < delinquentme> cool TIL!
13:34 < nmz787_i> i learn most everyday
13:35 < kanzure> see also "every day i learn something new and stupid" http://www.jwz.org/blog/2010/10/every-day-i-learn-something-new-and-stupid/
13:37 < delinquentme> If you guys are on FB ... that rock stacking?? FUCK YEAH... totally new hobby
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14:10 < kanzure> 14:10 <+sbp> "I'm always irresistibly drawn to petri dishes for some reason"
14:14 < kanzure> patrick byrne talking about counterparty in an overstock earnings call https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=395761.msg9377272#msg9377272
14:16 < delinquentme> eat it
14:18 < kanzure> "And there are already rules. We will be creating an ATS, an alternative trading system, and there are already rules that -- I think it's a 60-page document that says this -- from the SEC -- this is what an alternative trading system has to do. This is how it has to handle record-keeping, how it has to handle derivatives and things like that."
14:18 < kanzure> "You can create a currency on the Blockchain and that is, but you can also use the Blockchain, this technology, augmented by some new stuff on top of it called Counterparty to create a parallel world to the world of modern finance, where all these institutions we have in the modern financial world that accomplish certain desired ends, institutions like having equities and bonds and derivatives, swaps, they can all be -- and centralized stock ...
14:18 < kanzure> ... exchanges and centralized clearing systems like the DTCC, my bete noire, are things that can be done within the Blockchain, can be done in this parallel universe. We looked at -- I made a mention in May in Amsterdam that we wanted to be the first company to issue a security in this new parallel universe. And I did that somewhat strategically, assuming that there were people out there who were thinking about that and would get in touch. ...
14:18 < kanzure> ... Well, it turns out there were 13 different groups around the world thinking of that and trying to figure out how to do it."
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15:00 < delinquentme> awhut. http://blockchainstudies.org/
15:01 < kanzure> is this melanie's
15:02 < kanzure> if this is the one in london then it's melanie swan's i think
15:03 < delinquentme> you got it
15:03 < delinquentme> money systems huh???
15:03 < delinquentme> hat
15:04 < kanzure> just the way it's written, you can tell it's her
15:21 < fenn> nuclear bombers over europe, what is this, the 80s?
15:21 < fenn> http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/nato-says-russian-jets-bombers-circle-europe-in-unusual-incidents/2014/10/29/6098d964-5f97-11e4-827b-2d813561bdfd_story.html
15:22 < fenn> .title http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/22/inside-the-ring-b-52s-buzz-over-europe-and-swedes-/
15:22 < yoleaux> Inside the Ring: B-52s buzz over Europe, and Swedes hunt for Russian sub - Washington Times
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15:29 < bambi^> russians start bombing
15:29 < bambi^> next is to take back east germany
15:35 < fenn> "Quantified Self data commons on Ethereum (daily auto-upload of heart rate data and steps-walked)"  i don't get it, why does this need to be in a blockchain?
15:36 < kanzure> oh brother
15:37 < kanzure> yeah...
15:37 < fenn> i can't tell if these people are having genuine thoughts or just jibber jabber
15:38 < kanzure> they are not thoughts
15:38 < kanzure> what amount of thinking does that quote demonstrate?
15:38 < kanzure> 1) ability to paste words into a sentence
15:38 < kanzure> 2) ability to hear marketing about cryptocurrencies
15:39 < fenn> 3) ability to attend singularity university
15:39 < streety> is anyone else slightly disappointed by the tech being used in the NATO-Russia posturing? Most of it was flying when the cold war ended
15:40 < kanzure> only in the sense that i'm also disappointed that we don't have a space thether
15:40 < fenn> streety: you mean that they're still flying b-52s?
15:40 < kanzure> er... tether.
15:40 < kanzure> tethereum
15:40 < fenn> i'd rather they not waste money on new doomsday devices that will never get used..
15:41 < fenn> at the very least they could donate old military hardware to schools
15:42 < fenn> an a-10 thunderbolt for every high school, that's my political platform
15:42 < streety> yeah, B52s, MIG31s, Il-20s etc
15:48 < fenn> i guess most of the research has gone into other areas, like low-observable and sensors. doesn't take much accuracy to drop a nuclear bomb
15:49 < fenn> also military funding has dropped off a lot since the cold war
15:51 < fenn> ok maybe not http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/files/2012/08/csbachartmon.png
15:55 < streety> wow
15:55 < fenn> the article has some more interesting graphs http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/01/07/everything-chuck-hagel-needs-to-know-about-the-defense-budget-in-charts
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15:56 < streety> I suppose one way of looking at rolling out old tech is that if a shooting war did start neither side wants to show their hand early and let the opposition know what their true capabilities are
15:58 < fenn> when the old generals talk about budgets they make it sound like they're just barely scraping by
15:58 < streety> yeah
15:59 < streety> I hadn't realized the UK was the fourth biggest spender on defence
16:04 < fenn> its surprising just how cheap the nuclear program is compared to the overall budget
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16:26 < kanzure> hmmm
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16:38 < fenn> "New C-27J Spartan cargo planes ordered by the U.S. Air Force are being delivered ... directly to a storage "boneyard" in the Arizona desert."
16:39 < fenn> i guess google isnt the only one to throw half a billion dollars into the trash
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17:20 < kanzure> blerp
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17:22 < kanzure> fenn: here's another thing that will make you want to leave humanity http://genecoin.me/
17:24 < kanzure> geeze they're not even doing a hash
17:25 < kanzure> man, these people must hate anyone that thinks
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17:31 < justanotheruser> kanzure: No offense, but you don't have much room to talk mr former (or current?) xcounterparty dev
17:31 < kanzure> what's wrong with submitting bugfixes?
17:32 < kanzure> fenn: i think everyone has just gone totally fucking nuts
17:33 < justanotheruser> kanzure: promoting a system that harms bitcoin as you are claiming they are doing by not using hashes
17:33 < justanotheruser> I am just joking though. xcp moved over to op_return
17:34 < kanzure> a genome is multiple gigabytes of data
17:34 < kanzure> and even if it wasn't, you should really only store a small hash anyway
17:34 < fenn> i bet genecoin.me is a hoax
17:35 < kanzure> that's optimistic
17:35 < fenn> why else would they be interviewing a dog
17:35 < kanzure> because dogecoin marketing
17:35 < fenn> "Wow such genetics. So data. Very forever?"
17:35 < kanzure> "it's friendly to reference some stuff they have already heard of"
17:36 < kanzure> in their faq :( "Can my genome itself be traded as currency? I want my DNA to be the next Dogecoin!"
17:36 < kanzure> q: is there a question so stupid that it can kill?
17:36 < kanzure> like monty python's funniest joke
17:36 < fenn> do you want to know?
17:36  * kanzure dead
17:39 < fenn> so, digital notaries is an old idea, but they were never meant to actually function as a data storage unit
17:39 < fenn> people dont seem to understand the technical problems with storing data in the blockchain
17:39 < kanzure> meh there's stuff like http://www.proofofexistence.com/about
17:39 < kanzure> but even then...
17:40 < fenn> "This is the first online service allowing you to publicly prove that you have certain information without revealing the data or yourself" this is totally flat out wrong
17:41 < kanzure> of course it's wrong
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17:57 < kanzure> fenn: parasolid dev, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8532206
18:01 < fenn> none of these comments are helpful, but i'll check out verbnurbs (i swear)
18:02 < fenn> in particular sgdread is adding nothing to the conversation
18:03 < kanzure> sgdread is probably angry that it's called cad but doesn't have a measurement function or something
18:03 < kanzure> or an easy button to get multiple views on the screen at the same time
18:03 < fenn> so i cant do webGL on my computer because chrome hates me
18:04 < fenn> is it possible to use verbnurbs without webGL
18:05 < fenn> does this page actually have stuff on it besides some text in divs? http://verbnurbs.com/geometry.html
18:05 < kanzure> yes
18:05 < fenn> could you take a screenshot please
18:08 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/shots/2014-10-30-200716-verbnurbs-com-geometry-html.png
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18:08 < maaku> fenn: i'd like to find that trash can
18:08 < maaku> (with the half-billion dollars :)
18:09 < fenn> maaku it's in tucson near davis munson AFB
18:09 < maaku> hey i think i've actually been there
18:09 < fenn> i went there once to try to find some gas turbine engines to put in my car
18:09 < maaku> the plane graveyard?
18:09 < maaku> haha awesome
18:09 < kanzure> while i'm at it.... http://heybryan.org/shots/2014-10-30-200839-openjscad.png
18:09 < maaku> i went ot see a SR-71 they had on display there, along with the mated supersonic drone that was actually still classified at the time
18:10 < kanzure> hacker candy: http://www.amazon.com/DJI-Phantom-Aerial-Drone-Quadcopter/dp/B00AGOSQI8
18:11 < fenn> cube({size: 3}) i sure hope they have different syntax for other right parallelepipeds
18:11 < maaku> it was rather funny. the tour guide was like "That is the SR-71, fastest plane ever put into operation ... and that is a large, carbon-fiber structure. Moving along"
18:11 < fenn> it's titanium
18:11 < fenn> the baby :)
18:12 < maaku> right. here it is the one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_D-21
18:12 < fenn> all i gotta say is i hope the military spent this past two decades' money on something besides new ways to dig holes
18:13 < fenn> First flight: 22 December 1964
18:13 < fenn> unfuckingbelievable
18:14 < kanzure> yeah that's even before the singularity
18:14 < kanzure> or i suppose before the end of the singularity, rather
18:14 < maaku> the golden age of aircraft research and development ended with the launch of Keyhole :(
18:14 < fenn> you mean landsat?
18:15 < fenn> or the company that became google maps?
18:15 < kanzure> i feel obligated to mention the very public shaming that john carmack gave me last time i was thinking about these things
18:15 < fenn> huh i didnt know about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_(satellite)
18:15 < maaku> I mean the Corona spy satellites : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_Hole
18:16 < maaku> which is where the company named Keyhole got its name
18:17 < fenn> kanzure did you ever get that parrot AR drone?
18:17 < maaku> kanzure: ?
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18:19 < fenn> also i think its strange that arkyd space telescope never directly addresses the question of whether the telescope can be pointed at earth
18:22 < kanzure> no i did not get the parrot ar drone
18:22 < kanzure> i was worried that i would just be frustrated by having to switch batteries every 15 minutes
18:23 < kanzure> and then i'd have to figure out some automatic battery switching apparatus docking station... thing.
18:23 < kanzure> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8532206
18:23 < kanzure> "But for OpenNURBS you're getting commercial maturity"
18:23 < kanzure> yes... commercial maturity like having zero tests.
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18:28 < kanzure> hello drethelin
18:35 < drethelin> what's up
18:36 < fenn> maaku: huh i used to go by this place every day, apparently it was where they built/operated the keyhole program (you can see the train tracks for VTA light rail running behind the building) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onizuka_Air_Force_Station
18:37 < fenn> VTA is this shitty little tram that goes slower than a bicycle
18:38 < fenn> i always figured it was part of lockheed martin
18:40 < maaku> fenn: my brother works in that building. i worked across the runway for ~5 years
18:40 < fenn> wikipedia says "status: demolished"?
18:41 < maaku> the air force part of it yes. lockheed still owns the biulding
18:41 < maaku> if it's the same one i'm thinking of
18:41 < fenn> hard to miss those gigantic satellite dishes
18:42 < maaku> huh. wikipedia is pretty unambiguous about it being demolished
18:43 < maaku> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ian_e_abbott/14053999755/
18:43 < maaku> i'll have to ask my brother where they work now (he started there before 2011)
18:43 < fenn> https://www.flickr.com/photos/fennfoot/4713341299/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/fennfoot/4713979694/
18:45 < kanzure> i want one
18:47 < maaku> ah, he says they were one of the "undisclosed tennants" that got kicked out when the air force demolished the place
18:47 < kanzure> "Well is open source in the sense that they are accepting patches? The way I read it was that you get the source and you like it or lump it. The bar for the meaning of open in CAD is pretty low though. Have you looked at Siemens JtOpen for example? (Which has a documented file format with various encumbering restrictions and is a closed source product.) Disclaimer: I know the product manager from JtOpen and he is old friend of mine from ...
18:47 < kanzure> ... Parasolid days, so it's not personal."
18:47 < maaku> i think the satellite dishes are still there. at least some of them.
18:49 < fenn> In 1983 the Air Force admitted its ability to keep track of the government's military and intelligence satellites was "dependent on the single satellite control facility (SCF) located at Sunnyvale, California."
18:50 < fenn> how is that even possible.. you'd lose 90% of the communication windows by having only one longitude
18:53 < maaku> fenn: communication is not direct satellite to ground these days
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18:53 < maaku> there's a relay to fixed points
18:53 < maaku> i find it very alarming tha tthere was a single point of failure though
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19:07 < fenn> "Corona orbited in very low orbits to enhance resolution of its camera system." this doesnt really make sense given that they later decided extra resolution wasn't worth the tradeoff in field of view
19:10 < fenn> i guess zoom optics were too fancy
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20:06 < kanzure> "If you are moving into CAD, then OnShape (VC funded cloud based MCAD by the founders of SolidWorks) might by a competitor.  Do you know what they will use for their in the browser kernel? Unless they are roundtripping everything to Parasolid/Acis in the cloud like Lagoa that is." http://www.worldcadaccess.com/blog/2014/04/logoa-going-from-simple-rendering-to-cloud-based-cad.html
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20:52 < fenn> People tend to work to improve their weaknesses rather than exploit their strengths.
20:52 < fenn> Corollary We spend most of our effort trying to learn to do things for which we have little talent..
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21:40 < delinquentme> NSFW http://imgur.com/a/LcZ6H
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21:54 < catern> delinquentme: how so
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23:16 < fenn> m0onfish: hello. are you yocctar/metaliving/victoreremita?
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23:23 < fenn> i guess we have a lot of fans in kansas
23:26 < justanotheruser> I've been awake for 40 hours now
23:28 < justanotheruser> I just hit the mark
23:28 < fenn> congratulations?
23:28 < justanotheruser> thx
23:28 < justanotheruser> I'm not sure if I'm hallucinating
23:28 < justanotheruser> I heard a bunch of runnig outside my apt
23:29 < justanotheruser> I think it was real though
23:29 < justanotheruser> probably drunk people
23:29 < fenn> its the feds, blow up your computer, now!
23:29 < justanotheruser> ok
23:30 < fenn> but seriously i wonder why "DoD Network Information Center" is lurking in here
23:30 < genehacker> protip: go into a slightly dark room, stare at some posters, report back if they start moving spontaneously
23:31 < justanotheruser> I'm not a teenaged girl
23:31 < justanotheruser> I don't keep posters, sorry
23:31 < genehacker> if yes, you are probably experiencing sleep deprivation hallucinations, which can be pretty fun
23:31  * justanotheruser sasses half conscious
23:32 < justanotheruser> genehacker: you think I am?
23:32 < genehacker> ok whatever, large pictures preferably grayscale
23:32 < justanotheruser> I am certainly experiencing visual abnormalities
23:32 < justanotheruser> I also looked out my peephole and thought a giant man was standing there in a big shirt, but it was just my neighbors door
23:34 < fenn> supposedly this type of paranoia is caused by insufficient blood flow to the frontal lobes
23:34 < genehacker> no, I am informing you that it is highly enjoyable to watch a poster of the beatles heads appear to talk, transform, and spin around after a few sleepless days of consecutive finals
23:35 < justanotheruser> genehacker: it sounds like you're projecting your own hallucinations onto me
23:35 < justanotheruser> fenn: wouldn't doubt it
23:35 < justanotheruser> fenn: do you have insufficient blood flow right when you wake up as well?
23:36  * fenn wonders whether to make a viagra joke
23:37 < justanotheruser> I completely missed that
23:37 < nmz787_i> :P
23:37 < nmz787_i> i didnt
23:37 < justanotheruser> I was asking because sometimes I get pissed in the morning because people moved my stuff around then after like a minute of waking up I realize I'm an idiot
23:37 < nmz787_i> justanotheruser: you don't have lab/science posters?
23:37 < justanotheruser> nmz787_i: I have a computer
23:38 < nmz787_i> that can show images of posters
23:38 < nmz787_i> i guess that isn't quite the same
23:38 < fenn> it isn't
23:39 < nmz787_i> justanotheruser: why are you up so late?
23:39 < justanotheruser> nmz787_i: its only 2:30AM, I'm usually up this late
23:39 < nmz787_i> justanotheruser: you know your brain juices flow differently when you sleep
23:39 < fenn> so now it's all in vogue to print scientific conference posters on cloth, what do they do with them once the conference is over?
23:39 < justanotheruser> also, I'm starting to see bugs on my computer
23:39 < nmz787_i> justanotheruser: 40hrs is late
23:39 < justanotheruser> I probably should go to sleep soon
23:41 < genehacker> fenn, you typically wear them
23:42 < justanotheruser> nmz787_i: I hope to create the anti-uber man
23:42 < fenn> like a toga?
23:42 < genehacker> clothing funds are in short supply and togas are not inconspicuous on college campuses
23:42 < fenn> or do you sew it into a lab coat
23:42 < fenn> "yo dawg i herd u like science"
23:43 < justanotheruser> insteal of polyphasic sleep, monophasic sleep that happens once a week
23:44 < fenn> the under-man sleep schedule, patterned after the habits of morlocks
23:44 < nmz787_i> i think that causes brain rot
23:45 < fenn> you're thinking of tapeworms
23:45 < nmz787_i> I wonder what lifespans would be expeceted for  staying awake as much as possible vs. sleeping as much as possible for majority of lifetime
23:46  * justanotheruser wishes there was a long term uber man study
23:46 < nmz787_i> http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/news/story/index.cfm?id=3956
23:46 < fenn> sleep deprivation just causes chronic stress wasting and psychosis
23:46 < nmz787_i> .title
23:46 < yoleaux> To Sleep, Perchance to Clean - News Room - University of Rochester Medical Center
23:46 < justanotheruser> fenn: I don't have much stress. No permenant psychosis afaik
23:46 < nmz787_i> there's a video, because all the sleep-deprived people who need the info
23:47 < fenn> justanotheruser: the psychosis is temporary but effects of stress can be very long lasting
23:47 < fenn> well, psychosis can make you do things that have permanent consequences too
23:47 < justanotheruser> fenn: I probably have significantly less stress than the average person
23:47 < fenn> yes, i hear you spend all your time internetting
23:47 < nmz787_i> .title http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/news/story/index.cfm?id=3584
23:47 < yoleaux> Scientists Discover Previously Unknown Cleansing System in Brain - News Room - University of Rochester Medical Center
23:47 < justanotheruser> fenn: indeed
23:47 < justanotheruser> did you see my stats?
23:47 < fenn> stats?
23:48 < fenn> are you into quantified self?
23:48 < nmz787_i> .wik glymphatic
23:48 < yoleaux> "The glymphatic system (or glymphatic clearance pathway) is a functional waste clearance pathway for the mammalian central nervous system (CNS)." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glymphatic
23:48 < justanotheruser> also, not all my time, just more time than the top 2 #bitcoin users combined
23:48 < justanotheruser> fenn: no, my stats of being the most active in #bitcoin. I figured that's what you were referring to
23:48 < nmz787_i> "don't get all glymphy on me"
23:49 < fenn> no you were talking about "why i dont bother with nootropics" earlier
23:49 < justanotheruser> are you talking to me?
23:49 < fenn> justanotheruser: yes
23:49 < justanotheruser> quote?
23:49 < justanotheruser> earlier?
23:49 < justanotheruser> like earlier this year?
23:50 < fenn> ah sorry that was drethelin, nevermind
23:53 < justanotheruser> fenn: u gaslighting me m8?
23:53 < fenn> 2014-10-20 < drethelin> drinking coffee but didn't sleep
23:54 < fenn> 2014-10-20 < drethelin> maybe I should take some modafinil and see the effect
23:54 < fenn> i just got you mixed up with someone else
23:54 < justanotheruser> I think you're employing pschological torture on me
23:54 < justanotheruser> /s
23:59 < genehacker> why don't you just go to sleep?
--- Log closed Fri Oct 31 00:00:36 2014