--- Log opened Wed Nov 05 00:00:41 2014
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00:38 < sheena> seems lik something homeless shelters should be using
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03:24 < fenn> the cybernetworked metamorphosizing homeless shelter of the future!
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04:55 < kanzure> hm.
04:56 < kanzure> "1) photons do have impulse, given by its energy divides by the speed of light. This causes Radiation pressure (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_pressure ) 2) if a laser vaporises part of a structure, the resultant gas will push against the structure, delivering momentum"
04:56 < kanzure> .title http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-29847830
04:56 < yoleaux> BBC News - Australians lead efforts to move space junk with lasers
04:57 < kanzure> would be nice to collect all the highly reflective space junk using this method
05:00 < eudoxia> i'm having trouble buying this whole Kessler syndrome thing
05:01 < eudoxia> space is big, even LEO is pretty big
05:01 < eudoxia> "And once it starts, it's unstoppable. That's 100% likely;" does this guy have any simulations to back this up
05:08 < kanzure> guys can one of you convert my link into a hyperlink? google.com
05:15 < kanzure> haha humanityplus has been bitten by ethereum http://www.meetup.com/London-Futurists/events/205142762/
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05:53 < kanzure> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/11/05/md5_hash_collision/
05:53 < kanzure> (windows update)
06:00 < kanzure> http://news.sciencemag.org/scientific-community/2014/11/older-papers-are-increasingly-remembered-and-cited
06:00 < kanzure> "The study authors hypothesize this may be the effective of mass digitization and the increasing cumulative body of born-digital scholarship.  A commentator offers a different opinion, that the growth of the scientific literature is slowing, but offers no evidence for that surprising statement (at least to we librarians who see the growth of OA journals and prices/page counts for subscription journals).  A darker hypothesis is that the ...
06:00 < kanzure> ... average quality of papers is decreasing requiring scholars to look further back in time for citable material.  The cynic in me says that many (some?) scholars are not as finicky about what they cite and simply want to present a respectable looking (i.e. long enough) reference list. "
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06:34 < kanzure> "I am a bot that grabs a random word and draws semi-random lines until the OCRad.js library recognizes it as the word." http://reverseocr.tumblr.com/
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08:35 < heath> .title https://gigaom.com/2014/09/09/check-out-ibms-proposal-for-an-internet-of-things-architecture-using-bitcoins-block-chain-tech/
08:35 < yoleaux> Check out IBM’s proposal for an internet of things architecture using Bitcoin’s block chain tech — Tech News and Analysis
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09:01 < lichen> nmz787_i: hey
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09:11 < lichen> nmz787_i: pm me later if youre still looking for somebody
09:22 < heath> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYk16NJEENI
09:22 < yoleaux> 2014 Team EchiDNA BIOMOD VIDEO - YouTube
09:22 < heath> winner of grand prize at biomod 2014
09:22 < heath> http://openwetware.org/wiki/Biomod/2014/VCCRI
09:23 < heath> http://openwetware.org/wiki/Biomod/2014
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09:25 < heath> 2014 igem grand prize winner
09:25 < heath> http://2014.igem.org/Team:UC_Davis
09:25 < heath> http://igem.org/Results
09:29 < heath> biomod gold winner http://openwetware.org/wiki/Biomod/2014/UCR/Breaking_RNA
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10:01 < kanzure> "This API uses a satisfactory random number generator when generating new keychains."
10:02 < chris_99> what's that from?
10:04 < heath> chris_99: bitgo api
10:05 < chris_99> aha cheers
10:08 < kanzure> "Almost all BitGo API interfaces require authentication. Authentication is done via username/password and requires 2-factor authentication via" (that is the end of their sentence)
10:10 < chris_99> where's the source?
10:11 < kanzure> https://test.bitgo.com/api/
10:12 < chris_99> ah so, the actually service isn't open then i guess?
10:12 < kanzure> huh?
10:13 < chris_99> i mean, theres no sourcecode
10:15 < kanzure> they have a javascript api client thingy
10:15 < kanzure> https://github.com/BitGo/BitGoJS
10:15 < chris_99> yeah, i was curious about the backend
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10:28 < chris_99> seems to use this for RNG at least at the client https://github.com/bitwiseshiftleft/sjcl/blob/16dde36fa2a58845f639429acd5bc4e4ebb5a0f1/core/random.js
10:29 < not_unoriginal> >your pacemaker is running out of credits. please verify your identity by placing the NFC reader over the sternum area
10:29 < kanzure> sure but the api docs are talking about server-side things
10:29 < chris_99> mmm
10:29 < not_unoriginal> >our server will sms the verification code (charges may apply)
10:32 < not_unoriginal> >after you have verified, please select from the following payment plans: 0.1 BTC, 36 hours of uptime; 0.95 BTC, 1 month; 5 BTC, 6 months (get one free month!)
10:34 < not_unoriginal> >we are unable to verify your identity. Please retry using another authentication type. Shutdown in 14:59. Thank you for using Rent-A-Pacemaker
10:37 < heath> .title https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/minipcr/minipcr-a-dna-discovery-system-for-everyone
10:37 < yoleaux> miniPCR: A DNA Discovery System for Everyone by Zeke & Sebastian — Kickstarter
10:38 < heath> .title http://www.personalpcr.com/pcr/home
10:38 < yoleaux> Personal PCR
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10:55 < justanotheruser> kanzure: do you think there is demand for Script development?
10:56 < justanotheruser> Script being Bitcoin Script
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10:57 < kanzure> what do yoou mean by development
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11:07 < justanotheruser> kanzure: I mean writing a script that does something a company wants to do (an exchange might want atomic swaps, a company might want some complex tx involving multisig, or some company might want new scripting system in a sidechain along with some scripts designed) and have it tested for them then tested for DoS so it can be merged into main.
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11:09 < kanzure> i think that right now there is not "demand" specifically
11:09 < kanzure> however, i think that there are many companies that would benefit from those services
11:10 < justanotheruser> I think a lot of the service would be writing libraries or APIs that allow them to do this easily
11:11 < kanzure> you should convince petertodd to throw you some work
11:11 < kanzure> he probably gets more consulting work requests than anyone else at the moment
11:11 < kanzure> for that type of work, at least
11:12 < justanotheruser> oh yeah? I wonder how much he gets for bitcoin and for scripts in particular.
11:13 < justanotheruser> It seems a lot of his work is for altcoins.
11:15 < kanzure> .title http://nms.csail.mit.edu/spinal/
11:15 < yoleaux> Spinal Codes
11:15 < yorick> justanotheruser: bitcoin scripts are currently quite useless because they've disabled most of the opcodes
11:17 < kanzure> yorick: justanotheruser is user numero uno for most messages in #bitcoin, i'm sure he's aware of this
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11:22 < nmz787_i> http://people.mpi-inf.mpg.de/~mehlhorn/ftp/classroomExamplesNonrobustness.pdf
11:22 < kanzure> nanorobustness?
11:22 < nmz787_i> .tell fenn: you might take interest in that
11:22 < yoleaux> nmz787_i: What kind of a name is "fenn:"?!
11:23 < nmz787_i> .tell fenn you might take interest in that
11:23 < yoleaux> nmz787_i: I'll pass your message to fenn.
11:24 < nmz787_i> kanzure: it's about graphs/geometry and calculation error effects
11:25 < nmz787_i> after the second page the graphs are no longer so easy to understand
11:40 < nmz787_i> the visualizations on this page are pretty cool http://www.toptal.com/python/computational-geometry-in-python-from-theory-to-implementation
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11:45 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yxQIRl6Qic
11:45 < yoleaux> An overview of HTTP/2 with Daniel Sommermann (Sourcegraph Open Source Meetup) - YouTube
11:59 < kjskjskjs> is HTTP/2 a good idea?
11:59 < kanzure> that seems like a question for swhack
11:59 < kanzure> since they are the w3 people
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12:01 < delinquentme> knudsen number
12:02 < delinquentme> this is essentially a factor of how much brownian motion effects your flow ... right?
12:08 < kanzure> ask genehacker
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12:52 < kanzure> just got a strange call from a bitcoin-specific recruiter
12:52 < kanzure> for http://bolt.com/ and https://purse.io/ and a number of other things
12:54 < kanzure> both of those have raised $4M rounds already
12:54 < kanzure> teams of 4-6 developers
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13:33 < chris_99> nmz787_i1, what's the name of your tear down site?
13:35 < nmz787_i1> chris_99: takeitapart.com
13:35 < chris_99> merci
13:35 < chris_99> i'm looking for a teardown of a type 1 electronic lock
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14:02 < nmz787_i1> hmm
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14:58 < kanzure> https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/felten/new-research-result-cold-boot-attacks-disk-encryption/
14:58 < kanzure> 14:54 < gmaxwell> there is a nice paper. without cooling IIRC it was minutes althoug AES keys are surprisingly resilant because the key schedule expands the key data, and its like an error correcting code.
14:59 < kanzure> anyway something about recovering private keys by quickly cooling ram
14:59 < chris_99> the paper i've seen about cold boot, has a nice image of the mona lisa degrading
14:59 < chris_99> over time
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15:08 < kanzure> very inconspicuous
15:18 < heath> nmz787_i1: http://2014.igem.org/Team:Cooper_Union/TdT_project
15:19 < heath> gelbox on thingiverse http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:501520
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15:26 < kanzure> "De novo Enzyme Mediated Oligonucleotide Synthesizer"
15:26 < kanzure> "De novo synthesis is a way of creating DNA oligonucleotides without the need of a template strand. Since the conventional method is expensive, time consuming, and inefficient, our team has focused on minimizing the time and money required for DNA synthesis while allowing labs to produce oligonucleotides easily without ordering. Here we introduce the De novo Enzyme Mediated Oligonucleotide Synthesizer (DEMOS); a programmable enzyme based, ...
15:26 < kanzure> ... template-free, synthesizer for nucleic acid polymers. Our eventual goal will be to build a microfluidic De novo synthesizer that will allow laboratories, from academia to DIYBio community labs to rapidly and economically synthesize any strand of DNA for their projects. We hope that this system will become the key platform that bridges the in silico to in vitro gap in the design-test-build cycle of DNA synthesis and experimentation. "
15:26 < nmz787_i> i've done the princeton cold-boot attack, it was neat
15:26 < kanzure> "Our system is fundamentally based on two key technologies, one practical and the other theoretical:
15:26 < kanzure> The development of deoxynucleotide triphosphate (dNTP) substrates with 3' reversible protective groups for "sequencing by synthesis" and "hot start" PCR technologies
15:26 < kanzure> The published theoretical model of directed template-free synthesis of DNA using the enzyme terminal deoxynucleotidyl transferase (TdT). This enzyme that has the ability to add nucleotides to the 3' ends of DNA, preferable 3' overhangs, in a template-free manner."
15:27 < kanzure> er... wait is this bullshit? they just said "okay we're the first to write down 'use tdt'"? ugh
15:27 < kanzure> see also some discussion here https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/enzymaticsynthesis
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15:28 < kanzure> "In our present configuration, full length recombinant bovine TdT was used in the addition of thermolabile dNTPs to single stranded oligos. This particular enzyme denatures under elevated temperatures. Therefore, after the blocking group is removed from the dNTP at 95°C, it is necessary to add more of the enzyme. As a result, it would be useful to either isolate a naturally occurring variant of TdT or a similar enzyme that is resistant to ...
15:28 < kanzure> ... denaturation under high temperature conditions. This type of enzyme might either be found in a thermophilic organism or synthetically engineered in a laboratory. Another potential improvement would be to construct truncated and other variants of engineered TdT that would incorporate modified dNTPs at a faster rate. Lastly, our current system could be improved by switching from commercially available thermolabile nucleotides to photolabile ...
15:28 < kanzure> ... nucleotides. This should improve the system since temperature ramp up and down cycles are avoided, creating a faster reaction cycle and eliminating the need to re-add the TdT enzyme at the beginning of each cycle. We are presently exploring these improved features. "
15:29 < kanzure> Minhaz Ud-Dean, S.M. (2008) A Theoretical Model for Template-Free Synthesis of Long DNA Sequence. Syst. Synth. Biol. 2:67-73
15:29 < kanzure> Motea, E.A. and Berdis, A.J. (2010) Terminal Deoxynucleotidyl Transferase: The Story of a Misguided DNA Polymerase. Biochim. Biophys. Acta. 1804, 5: 1151-1166.
15:29 < kanzure> berdis sounds familiar
15:29 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/DNA/
15:30 < nmz787_i> heath: thanks, is neat... AFAIK the limiting-factor is the labile terminators
15:30 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/polymerase/
15:30 < nmz787_i> from a cost perspective at least
15:30 < justanotheruser> nmz787_i: what % was recovered?
15:30 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/polymerase/tdt.txt
15:30 < nmz787_i> seems the really good labile terminators are patented/trade secrets
15:30 < nmz787_i> justanotheruser: not sure what you mean
15:31 < nmz787_i> at least I couldn't find any to buy when I had this idea like 4 years ago
15:33 < nmz787_i> I remember only being able to source them in the helicos sequencing reagent kit, but not alone
15:33 < justanotheruser> nmz787_i: N = (data_in_ram xor retrieved_data); print num0s(N) / len(N)
15:35 < kanzure> "Lots of interesting things can be done without root. The author gives an example where he quits and re-launches Chrome with flag "--disable-web-security" which disables the same-origin policy. He launches Chrome to a webpage which then steals your Gmail session cookies."
15:35 < kanzure> aww i want to be that guy
15:35 < kanzure> .title http://lambdaops.com/ipythonjupyter-tmpnb-debuts
15:35 < yoleaux> Instant Temporary IPython Notebooks
15:36 < kanzure> tallakahath: see above link maybe
15:37 < kanzure> .title https://github.com/servo/servo/pull/3590
15:37 < yoleaux> Incremental Style Recalc by cgaebel · Pull Request #3590 · servo/servo · GitHub
15:37 < kanzure> (incremental repaint/redraw in servo)
15:40 < kanzure> some game developer's blog http://asciilands.blogspot.com/
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17:16 < kanzure> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/11/canadian-hospital-sick-of-us-test-monopoly-sues-to-stop-gene-patents/
17:16 < kanzure> ""Genes are not inventions," said Dr. Gail Graham of the hospital's genetics department during a press conference on Monday. "They belong to all of us.""
17:16 < kanzure> er...
17:17 < kanzure> so inventions can't belong to everyone?
17:17 < kanzure> and what the fuck does it mean for a gene to fucking belong? fuck him
17:19 < justanotheruser> you're for gene patents?
17:19 < kanzure> of course not
17:19 < kanzure> but i'm also against being stupid
17:19 < justanotheruser> just against his stupidity?
17:19 < justanotheruser> ok
17:20 < justanotheruser> I mean, "genes are not inventions" does make a bit of sense since something of nature cannot be patented
17:20 < kanzure> arguably many parts of nature have been patented
17:20 < kanzure> there's a lot of work that goes into creating a new gene, so something had to do that work
17:21 < kanzure> justanotheruser: were you around when i proposed my patent reform idea?
17:21 < justanotheruser> if it was nature then on paper that shouldn't be patentable. If it was a human then that should be patentable
17:21 < kanzure> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/openmanufacturing/vS4ju1VqXb0/jD_TZ8U47b4J
17:21 < justanotheruser> kanzure: you had some idea along the lines of giving someone a monopoly in that subset of an industry or something
17:22 < kanzure> well that's what it is anyway, so attributing that part to me is a little silly
17:23 < kanzure> kjskjskjs: were you around when i posted that link the first time?
17:24 < justanotheruser> kanzure: does your proposal assume that the patent filer has already made something that could be a benefit to society givin his monopoly?
17:25 < kanzure> nope
17:25 < kanzure> which i would argue is good
17:25 < kanzure> because it mirrors the current system
17:26 < kjskjskjs> kanzure: the thing is that they're not talking about newly invented genes; they're talking about discoveries of existing genes
17:26 < justanotheruser> seems patent trolling would be worse
17:26 < kanzure> kjskjskjs: oh i didn't mean that link, i meant the other one (keep reading?)
17:27 < justanotheruser> I think the negative of giving someone a monopoly over a field is stronger than the positive of not having to spend a ton of money evaluating the patentability of a design
17:27 < kanzure> justanotheruser: well, there could just be a law that says 5% of all revenue from all participant companies must go to this-specifically-calculated-list-of-patent-holders
17:27 < kanzure> i don't see what your second part has to do with the first part
17:27 < kjskjskjs> kanzure: what do you mean by "technology"?
17:28 < kanzure> "the positive of not having to spend a ton of money evaluating the patentability of a design" okay but the first part was arguing against any monopolies whatsoever
17:28 < justanotheruser> kanzure: 2nd part?
17:28 < kanzure> kjskjskjs: genes, software, math, hardware, anything that has a schematic that gets patented at the moment
17:28 < justanotheruser> kanzure: no, it was arguing against giving someone a monopoly beyond the production of their invention
17:29 < kjskjskjs> kanzure: I'm no political expert but your proposal doesn't sound like it would be popular
17:29 < kanzure> er, patents are way more powerful than just about production
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17:29 < kanzure> kjskjskjs: yeah, my framing is really bad and makes patents sound stupid
17:29 < kanzure> (probably because i think patents are stupid)
17:29 < kjskjskjs> yeah
17:30 < kanzure> i could frame it like, "Here's a way for us to create an endless variety of patents while saving BILLIONS of dollars."
17:30 < kanzure> trillions, even
17:31 < kanzure> "If patents are so important to our civilization, then it is morally good to create as many of them as possible for as cheaply as possible. The evaluation costs should be brought towards zero as much as possible."
17:32 < kanzure> "Also, let's get rid of the technology aspects to expedite everything about patents. The technology part barely matters anyway. By separating the technology aspect, patents themselves can be more valuable in general."
17:32 < kanzure> "And technology can go do its own thing as a separate asset class, which also increases the value of the system."
17:32 < kjskjskjs> I don't know, it sounds like what you would get if you asked the Nutri-Matic to make you a patent system.
17:33 < kanzure> .g nutri-matic
17:33 < yoleaux> http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Nutri-Matic_Drink_Synthesizer
17:33 < kanzure> "An open source 3D Printable Raman Spectrometer using a RaspberryPi and easy to find off the shelf components.." http://hackaday.io/project/1279-ramanPi---Raman-Spectrometer
17:34 < kanzure> kjskjskjs: i haven't seen many good proposals for what to turn the patent system into. if it's so important, surely people have thought about ways to optimize it.
17:34 < kanzure> even the rate of granting new patents should be considered some sort of economic indicator of import, because of how valuable patents are on average
17:35 < kjskjskjs> yes, economists have done studies
17:36 < kjskjskjs> they all seem to conclude that we should grant less patents
17:36 < kanzure> i strongly disagree with the view that "patents are a good idea because the patent system existed in the past roughly in its current form"
17:37 < kanzure> i don't think that granting less patents is a sufficient change to the architecture or philosophy of the patent system
17:43 < chris_99> awh where art thou paperbot
17:43 < kanzure> he's dead
17:43 < kanzure> "You can definitely put Bitcoin in your analog watch. It's just that payment process isn't going to be native until the creation of an analog ECDSA movement."
17:43 < chris_99> :(
17:48 < kanzure> once his bugs get fixed he'll be switched back online
17:48 < chris_99> cool
17:49 < chris_99> never heard of this type of attack before - http://www.delaat.net/rp/2011-2012/p19/report.pdf electromagnetic fault injection
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18:37 < kanzure> hmm https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10755550/4/Harry-Potter-and-the-cryptographic-key
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19:02 < justanotheruser> kanzure: since patents probably wouldn't require technical knowledge under your idea, don't you foresee patent squatting?
19:03 < kanzure> of course
19:03 < kanzure> the important thing is that patents are decoupled from tech
19:03 < kanzure> so patent squatting is basically just the same as using a patent anyway
19:04 < justanotheruser> don't you think that hinders innovation? Now whenever I come up with an idea and know how to produce it I have to pay a patent squatter
19:04 < kanzure> why would it hinder innovation if it is unrelated to tech?
19:04 < kanzure> yeah you wouldn't have to pay anyone just because you had the idea
19:04 < justanotheruser> because my tech innovation might be in a domain belonging to someone else
19:04 < kanzure> okay, but it's just a tax at that point
19:04 < kanzure> like the other taxes
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19:05 < kanzure> i agree that taxes and fees can hinder businesses, especially when margins are extremely thin
19:05 < justanotheruser> Its not as fair as a tax. A tax is usually a % of my profit. This would be as much of my predicted profit as they can get away with taking
19:06 < kanzure> yeah i'm not sure how that part should be designed
19:06 < kanzure> maybe the rate would be calculated by law, or by the government, or some other system
19:06 < justanotheruser> With domain squatting, at least I can trivially come up with a new name. The same can't be said of an invention.
19:06 < kanzure> the point is that once it is decoupled from technology, tech is free to go innovate and do what it does
19:06 < kanzure> i don't think you understand the whole "decoupling" aspect here
19:07 < justanotheruser> I don't
19:07 < justanotheruser> The designs are a subset of what the patent covers
19:07 < kanzure> before patents were about technology, they were just monopolies granted by the government
19:07 < justanotheruser> if I understand right
19:07 < kanzure> it was more like "anyone who does business in the xyz industry must pay the royal salt company a royalty of $x"
19:08 < kanzure> it was entirely unrelated to the inventions of the royal salt company
19:08 < kanzure> making it about inventions was a compromise because people hated patents so much
19:08 < kanzure> but making it about inventions is also stupid
19:08 < justanotheruser> so any salt innovators aren't as free to innovate because they get taxed if they enter that domain
19:09 < kanzure> yeah but patents currently restrict things much more than that
19:09 < kanzure> "anything related to the patented subject x is something that the patent owner can claim violates their rights, not just business/revenue/etc"
19:09 < kanzure> er that shouldn't have been quoted, oops
19:11 < kanzure> whatever happened to that "no unreasonable taxation" shit anyway
19:12 < justanotheruser> ask abe lincoln?
19:12 < kanzure> anyway, i feel like i'm getting some of the blame for telling you about what patents are
19:12 < kanzure> it's not my fualt that they exist and are awful
19:12 < kanzure> *fault
19:13 < justanotheruser> ..
19:14 < kanzure> having a cap on taxes related to "patents" and monopoly players would mean that you could estimate money you'll have to pay out just to participate in intellectual property businesses
19:15 < kanzure> which is way better than the variable damages that patent holders can inflict at the moment
19:16 < justanotheruser> so your idea basically is rather than preventing a large ambiguous set from entering a field, allow a smaller well defined set enter the field and pay a tax
19:17 < kanzure> yes, and also, don't make any of the claims or patent content about technology itself.
19:17 < kanzure> people should be able to use technology as much as they want, independent of patents.
19:17 < kanzure> patents should only be about business and taxation or something, and never about specific technology
19:19 < kanzure> also.. patents should not have to undergo examinations. if all of the fees are paid, and there's no conflicting grants, it should be granted. the conflicts can be resolved by just keeping a database of which NAICS codes different people have bought taxes on.
19:19 < kanzure> this way, there's no huge backlog of examiners making bad decisions about technology they don't understand anyway
19:20 < justanotheruser> so how does this make people free to innovate? The purpose of a patent is to prevent someone from making a product and having everyone else copy them? If I make a unique product and just pay a patent squatter so I can implement my idea, all my competition can do the same.
19:21 < kanzure> the purpose of a patent is not about other people copying things
19:22 < justanotheruser> it isn't?
19:22 < kanzure> not at all. it's about claims. it's the "delineation of their specific monopoly grant".
19:22 < kanzure> you don't need to copy something specifically to lose a patent litigation case
19:26 < kanzure> "By the 16th century, the English Crown would habitually abuse the granting of letters patent for monopolies.[7] After public outcry, James I of England was forced to revoke all existing monopolies and declare that they were only to be used for "projects of new invention". This was incorporated into the Statute of Monopolies in which Parliament restricted the Crown's power explicitly so that the King could only issue letters patent to the ...
19:26 < kanzure> ... inventors or introducers of original inventions for a fixed number of years. The Statute became the foundation for later developments in patent law in England and elsewhere."
19:26 < kanzure> see http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/Generally%20inconvenient:%20the%201624%20Statute%20of%20Monopolies%20as%20political%20compromise.pdf
19:27 < justanotheruser> hmm
19:28 < kanzure> do you really think that in 1620 people were sitting around theorizing about whether or not patents were an optimal method of spurring tech innovation
19:29 < justanotheruser> Don't you think it would be better to limit the innovations to a well defined smaller using such a tax? That way patent trolls wouldn't have much power since you could just pay the tax to the govt, but competitors would have apertty big burden and would have difficulty competing.
19:30 < kanzure> i don't see the need to make any of it about technology at all. i just don't see it.
19:30 < justanotheruser> I don't see what advantage your system has over no patents at all
19:30 < kanzure> oh, well the advantage is that nobody is going to give up their $5 trillion of patents fr nothing
19:31 < kanzure> *for nothing
19:31 < kanzure> that's a lot of money to ask them to just forget about
19:31 < kanzure> and seems politically hard to figure out
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19:33 < kanzure> a printer queue for 3d printing https://www.botqueue.com/
19:34 < kanzure> hoeken has spent 800 hours on it? https://www.botqueue.com/stats
19:34 < kanzure> oh because "Made by Zach Hoeken and friends"
19:34 < kanzure> that makes sense then
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23:35 < fenn> heh i like the asciilands tabs and detachable windows http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tfwK62PFVIE/Uzeyuqi5suI/AAAAAAAAIv0/XUs8r30RnVs/s1600/newInt.png
23:35 < yoleaux> 5 Nov 2014 19:23Z <nmz787_i> fenn: you might take interest in that
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23:51 < delinquentme> facebook.
23:51 < delinquentme> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement
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--- Log closed Thu Nov 06 00:00:42 2014